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Ryan
Jul 7th, 2002, 03:53 PM
It's almost a given that Serena will win the US Open if she plays she way she did at Wimbledon. Just for arguements sake though, order the top 10 from most likely to least likely of winning the Open.


1. Serena (DUH)

2. Venus (DUH again)
3. Jennifer

4. Martina
5. Lindsay

6. Monica
7. Justine
8. Kim
9. Jelena
10. Amelie

This is assuming the top 10 remains the same by the time the US Open rolls around.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 7th, 2002, 03:55 PM
It really depends on how martina and lindsay play when they get back. practicing is a lot different than an actual match.

matthias
Jul 7th, 2002, 03:56 PM
1.Serena
2.Venus
3.Jenny
4.Seles
5.Lindsay
6.martina
7.Kim
8.Justine
9.Jelena
10.Amelie

but there are few weeks til the us-open and much can happen.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:18 PM
I think the devastation of venus is good. She was devastated when serena won the us 99 open and look what happened? Hopefully after losing her crown to serena she will realize she will have to work a lot harder to play her sister than before. Before serena would self destruct, well she's over that apparently. Now venus needs to get over being too overprotective. Serena has a mom to do that she doesnt need her sister to be her mom.

Capriati
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:23 PM
I would put Hantuchova ahead of Amelie and Jelena. Only a couple of people can beat Serena when they are at their best, so it looks like we're in for another Serena victory.

selesrules
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:35 PM
1. Serena (clearly the best)
2. Monica (will want to erase last year's upset, plays great in the summer)
3. Jennifer (wants to win her first US Open)
4. Lindsay
5. Martina
6. Venus (it's over, mentally she will never be the same)
7. Kim
8. Justine
9. Daniela
10. Jelena
11. Amelie

bilal
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:38 PM
1.Serena
2.Venus
3.Jennifer
4.Lindsay
5.Justine & Monica
7.Martina
8.Kim
9.Jelena
10.Amelie

villa
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by selesrules
1. Serena (clearly the best)
2. Monica (will want to erase last year's upset, plays great in the summer)
3. Jennifer (wants to win her first US Open)
4. Lindsay
5. Martina
6. Venus (it's over, mentally she will never be the same)
7. Kim
8. Justine
9. Daniela
10. Jelena
11. Amelie

venus at 6, you've got to be kidding me right?? she lost to sister twice, venus is playing far better than last year, it's not as if her level of play has decreased, it's just her sister has improved.
Venus apart form serena would beat all the players you put ahead of her in straigt sets comfortabaly. lol

E. Blackadder
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:54 PM
1. Serena

GAP

2. Venus

GAP

3. Jennifer
4. Lindsay

SMALL GAP

5. Monica
6. Martina
7. Kim (if she finds her game a bit)
8. Justine
9. Jelena
10 Amelie

villa
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:58 PM
Rhythemboy thats the exact order i would put them in to.:)

mboyle
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:04 PM
Ok i am officially putting villa on my ingnore list. I really don't want to keep hearing his incessant venom towards all players without the last name Williams. Oh and Venus is not playing better than last year. Her serve is way off, and her forehand is not quite as good.

Cam'ron Giles
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:04 PM
LMAO @ Selesrules. You have Seles at 2 and say it is over for Venus for losing the Wimbledon final. If I can recall, Seles lost to Juju and Venus kicked the shit out of Juju. You are so insane...

Cam'ron Giles
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by mboyle
Hey Freethinker AND Villa, people have things called opinions ! :rolleyes: Just because some people are hoping that the Williams sisters will loose early in a grand slam does not give either of you the right to bash them. Do you realize that it is people like you (who incesantly critizise others opinions) that makes this board sickening at times? I mean I hate to break it to you but the era of Williams domination WILL come to an end, and maybe sooner than we think (or maybe not so soon) MODERATOR EDIT While I personally think that Monica does not have the second best shot at winning the title, I also don't feel that venus has the second best shot, but I don't say LMAO villa your so stupid how could you say that? I mean come on, we are not little children. We can respect other people right? My advice to you two is grow up and get some manners.

:rolleyes:

LucasArg
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:19 PM
1- Venus
2- Serena
3- Jennifer
4- Lindsay
5- Kim
6- Justine
7- Martina
8- Monica
9- Amelie
10- Jelena

Becool
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:22 PM
Williams fans don't lose their hope on Venus :angel:

angele87
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:23 PM
Question: why hasn't mboyle been banned already?

villa
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:23 PM
Lol, this is a discussion board, i merely stated that i did not agree with someones opnion and then backed it up with why i don't agree with them, where did i bash a player or poster???

The mere truth is that some people are trying to constantly put venus down just becuase she lost to the best player in the world right know and make her sound as though she can't even compete with the rest of them and i disagree, like u said every one is entitled to their opinion but u have to back it up.
and venus is playing better this year, she is still having a more successful year than last year, she has reached two slam finals, and is playing better than all the women on tour apart from one.

TeeRexx
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:24 PM
Liklihood of winning at the Open:

1. VENUS
2. SERENA
3. Henin
4. Mauresmo
5. Capriati
6. Seles
7. Clijsters
8. Davenport
9. Hingis
10. Kournikova - Hey, as likely as #3-9, I guess. :)

Nimi
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:31 PM
pfff...

Serena
Venus
Jennifer

almost 95% that one of 'em will take it. Venus is pretty much off this year, & Serena.... maybe a lapse? then Jenny will take it. i dont think all three of them will be off.

Bright Red
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:50 PM
Just because Venus lost Wimbledon, people think she's over and done with. Sheesh.

Come-on-kim
Jul 7th, 2002, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Rhythmboy
1. Serena

GAP

2. Venus

GAP

3. Jennifer
4. Lindsay

SMALL GAP

5. Monica
6. Martina
7. Kim (if she finds her game a bit)
8. Justine
9. Jelena
10 Amelie

The same but between Serena and Venus I'll say now HUGE GAP

babsi
Jul 7th, 2002, 06:47 PM
1.Serena

Big gap

2.Venus

Gap

3.Jennifer Capriati
4.Monica Seles
5.Lindsay Davenport
6.Martina Hingis

Gap

7.Justine Henin
8.Kim Clijsters
9.Amelie Mauresmo

Gap

10.Jelena Dokic

Numbers 5 and 6 are just guesses on my part as I have no clue on how both will come back.

Vanity
Jul 7th, 2002, 06:49 PM
01) Serena (no explaination needed)
02) Jennifer
03) Seles
04) Henin (her mental game looks to be improving)
05) Dokic
06) Hingis (lack of matches)
07) Davenport (hasn't played in almost a year... a month isn't enough to shake off the rust)
08) Mauresmo
09) Clijsters (poor form currently)
10) Venus (no chance)

Venus+Serena#1fan
Jul 7th, 2002, 06:54 PM
1. SERENA= clearly the best right now, and if she plays her best against Venu's best I would choose her as winner, She is more agressive and dominant than Venus.

2. VENUS= only player she would loose to is pretty much Serena.

3. LINDSAY= if she comes back playing well she would be my third choice, I think she can punish jennifer's serve and beat her with her power.

4. JENNIFER= very close with lindsay, but on fast hardcourts her serve is a disadvantage.

5. KIM= It all depends on how she is playing leading into the USO.

6. DANIELA= If she can get better from here to the open she could be a threat, she has a very nice game.

7. MONICA= she will fight for it, but I don't think she can beat many top 4 players.

8. JUSTINE= she's got game, but i dont think enough to win on the hardcourts, on which she struggled this year.

elektra 4 u
Jul 7th, 2002, 06:55 PM
LOL at people who think Venus's career is as good as over. This is a dangerous time for all the other tennis players as I think echos of US Open 1999 is ringing in Venus's ears right now...................and we all know what happened a few months after that.......TOTAL VENUS DOMINATION!!!!!!! Venus has just lost some of her motivation and hunger to win as I guess she never thought Serena would be capable of playing so well against her but she'll bounce back tougher and stronger!!!!!!
GOOOOOOOO VENUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to this thread, Venus,Serena and Jennifer all have a shot at winnning US Open but biggest outside threat is gonna be Rubin!!!!!!!

R. DIS
Jul 7th, 2002, 07:28 PM
1) Serena
2) Jen-really the only one who can chanllenge seres
3) Venus
4) Lindsay-once she returns she'll be beating everyone again
5) Justine-won't beat any of the 1-4 players but will beat everyone else
6) Daniela-ready to have a breakthrough summer
7) Kim-even with hurt arm, she's still awesome on hard courts
8) Ameilie
9) Dokic
10) Seles-would have put her at 8, but she lost to Amelie and Dokic the last time they've played against each other

RockSteady
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:00 PM
It's clear that some people aren't thinking straight. Not even including some of the top, top players on your lists? That's okay, everyone just pick your favorites. :rolleyes:

1) Serena Williams - She runs like a man, hits it like a man, serves like a man. That's all a compliment: her athleticism is just beyond all the other women. And ANYTHING Venus does, Serena does better. She has always been the stronger link in doubles, and is currently the stronger player in singles.

2) Venus Williams - Two GS finals, and reputation get her at number 2. Her serve and return game, plus down-the-line shots dominate most players. HOWEVER, the only top players she has beaten in a GS this year are a win over Seles and a win over Henin. Henin had the off-day of her life, and who isn't beating Seles these days? So perhaps during the warm-up months, we will see how she handles other top players.

3) Martina Hingis - Every time she is injured, she comes back stronger. She was having the best year of anyone before she was injured (GS final, winning two big tournaments, best results at the Super-Tier I's) and has, believe it or not, the third highest winning percentage on tour (and it would be higher if she played Venus' easy tournaments). Honestly, she is better (IMO) in every was than Jennifer, and should be able to beat every other top player besides the first two now that Lindsay is a question mark. Hell, it is only Serena she struggles to beat, so if Serena is on the other side of the draw or loses early, the possibilities are endless.

4) Lindsay Davenport - She was the hottest player on tour at the end of last year before she was injured, and on hardcourts, she is deadly. Rumor has it she is in good shape, too. However, knee surgeries SUCK (as my dad could tell you) and I think she will be a little bit rusty, and the game has passed her by just a bit. Still, a good chance.

5) Jennifer Capriati - Overrated, as far as I'm concerned. If it weren't for a choking Martina, she would have ZERO titles so far this year. BUT, she always reaches the later rounds and is as good a threat as anyone to beat Serena Williams. But why is the world #3 (#1 not too long ago) ranked #5 in her own country? Because I think that if she meets any of the first four, she will lose.

6) Kim Clijsters - Huge question mark here. She has crumbled the last two Slams, and what's up with her arm? But she can run as fast as anyone (yes, ANYONE) in the top 10, hit it as hard as anyone in the top 10, and mix it up as much as anyone in the top 10. Once she gets her game together and irons out the kinks, I think she could dominate anyone. Until then, she remains a threat, not a favorite.

7) Monica Seles - Same old story here. I expect her to reach the quarters, and lose to whomever.

8) Justine Henin - She would normally be a little higher on this list, but she has been playing a lot of defense recently. She is looping her forehand and slicing her backhand, whereas last year, for better or worse, she tried to be more aggressive than her opponent no matter who it was. She won't get very far slicing her way through the draw.

9) Daniela Hantuchova - SERIOUS upset potential here. I would be very surprised if she doesn't knock out atleast one big name. Certainly, I would rather meet similarily ranked players like Dementieva, Testud, or Shaughnessy than Daniela.

10) Jelena Dokic - As I have heard before...she has a nice forehand, nice backhand, and...that's it. That won't get her far. She can beat a top 10 player if they are having a very bad off day, but doesn't stand a chance otherwise, since she does virtually nothing better than the first nine players here.

disposablehero
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:06 PM
Serena
Venus
Monica
Jennifer
Lindsay

Right now, I really can't see anyone else having a chance.

selesrules
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:06 PM
You make fun of us putting Monica high? Then you go and put down Venus before Serena. Well Serena kicked Venus' ass the last 3 times they played in straight sets, she won the last 2 slams and she's no.1, yet it's "okay" to put Venus as the no.1 favourite. Your logic is so perfect. :rolleyes: Look at yourselves before you criticize others.

Monica_Rules
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:12 PM
Serena
Venus
Jenny
Lindsay
Monica
Martina
Kim
Justine
Daniela
Jelena/Amelie(who knows)

Iconoclast
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:15 PM
It's a sign of heavy drinking to put Venus Williams ahead of Serena Williams. It's a sign of heavy drinking and severe sleep deprivation to put Monica Seles ahead of the defending US Open Champion.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:25 PM
Good analysis rocksteady:wavey:

mboyle
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by angele87
Question: why hasn't mboyle been banned already?

What did I do that I should be banned? :confused: I was simply trying to stand up to villa because I felt he was acting like a jerk in numerous threads to anyone who thought that another player could beat Venus and Serena. Perhaps I was too harsh, but I don't like it when people shove their opinions forcefully down other's throats. I will remove my previous posts as they were mistakingly taken as offensive. Sorry.

angele87
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:32 PM
Well you attacked villa because you were tired of "his incessant venom towards all players without the last name Williams"... I don't recall that he said anything to that extent in this thread. Here's the post:

"venus at 6, you've got to be kidding me right?? she lost to sister twice, venus is playing far better than last year, it's not as if her level of play has decreased, it's just her sister has improved.
Venus apart form serena would beat all the players you put ahead of her in straigt sets comfortabaly. lol "

I don't exactly sense a ton of hatred towards everybody but Serena and Venus is that post :rolleyes: He may of said something in another thread but comment on it in that thread because it really has nothing to do with this one :(

duki
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:34 PM
My prediction:

1. Serena Williams
2. Venus Williams
3. Monica Seles
4. Jennifer Capriati
5. Lindsay Davenport
6. Jelena Dokic
7. Martina Hinigs
8. Amelie Mauresmo
9. Justine Henin
10. Kim Clijsters

irma
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:36 PM
I Serena she has to be the fav now
2 Venus will be very motivated to beat sis again
3 Martina if she is back, she will be really motivated and then she is dangerous
4/5 Monica/Cappy I rate them the same chances
6 Lindsay depends on how she returns, if she does well then I rate her at the same chances as Martina!
7 Justine I think she has more confidence as Kimmy right now
8 Kimmy(since she is in a little slump and injured, I can't rate her chances that high, I wish I could, I would love to see her win though)
9 Amelie I think she has not the nerves
10 Jelena will overplay herself once more

mboyle
Jul 7th, 2002, 08:50 PM
Top Ten's Chances (with Hantuchova and Mauresmo in over Dokic and Testud cause that is what I see the rankings being before the Open)
1-Serena Williams- On a reeeeeeealy off day she JUST MIGHT loose, but otherwise she is winning

GAP

2-Jennifer Capriati- Loves the slams, has a better chance than Venus of beating Serena, not as good of a chance of beating certain other players

3-Venus Williams-More likely than Jenn to get a meeting with Serena, also more likely than Jenn to loose in straight sets. We will see how her Wimbledon loss affects her.

GIGANTIC GAP

4-Martina Hingis- is always strong when she comes back from injury, will actually be hungry to win i think. I can't put her at the same level as Cappy and Venus cause I can't gurantee how she is playing

5- Lindsay Davenport- All depends on how she moves, and how much rust is in her game

6- Monica Seles- Has the desire, power, but not the speed to win.

6- Daniela Hantuchova- Has the power and the speed, but not the experience, to win

8-Justine Henin- Has the game but not the brain (meaning mental toughness as this rhymes sort of) to win

8- Amilie Mauresmo- ditto Henin

10-Kim Clijsters- Unfortunately, Clijsters is trying to play while injured. I can't understand her decision, but it has seriously hurt her game. I wish she would just have surgery or take some rest.

Others:
Anna Kournikova-no chance unless the women's US Open becomes a replica of the men's wimbledon. Great game, shaky serve, needs confidence. If she were to make the finals, I gurantee you it would be the most watched tennis match in history!

Jelena Dokic- same chances as Anna. Great groundstrokes, but players are beginning to figure her out as her game has not changed since she arrived on tour. Also needs a better first and second serve (why does she hit her second serve flat?) IMO, and certainly she would benefit from taking her time.

Sean
Jul 7th, 2002, 10:02 PM
SERENA - best in the world

Huge Gap

2. Venus - wants serious revenge
3. Jen - wants serious revenge

Gap

4. Lindsay - If she comes back as strong as when she left she has a very good chance.

5. Daniela - has all the weapons to trouble the 4 players above her.

6. justine - fearless and dangerous, can take out the big names.

7. Martina - has a good chance of doing well if she comes back strong. winning not so sure

8. Monica - needs to get in better shape to win

9. Kim - needs to keep away from lleyton for a bit.

10. Amelie - Mentally she isnt ready to win.

DEETHELICK
Jul 7th, 2002, 10:45 PM
1) Venus - I just feel that she will be hungry for a GS. This year she doesn't have one at all, and I'm sure reaching 2 GS finals is not satisfactory.

2) Serena - The tournaments in between will take their toll on Serena I feel. Living up to the hype and pressure, as well as defending the Canadian Open will tire her mentally by the US Open.

3) Jennifer - I don't think she is overrated. She was defeated by Amelie for her earliest loss at a Slam since Aus 01. But Amelie was on fire. I still feel that Jen will be one of the biggest threats for the title. She needs to win a hardcourt tourney though, to help boost her chances.

4) Lindsay - Even coming back from injury, Lindsay can hit top form. Lindsay owned the hardcourts in 1998. She can definitely step up her level when she needs to and can still defeat Jelena, Kim, Justine quite easily.

5) Martina - Depending on her comeback (she always comes back well after injury) I would put her joint 4th or 5th. The four women above her have a lot of power at their disposal. That could easily be a factor on the hardcourts. But Martina is that talented that you cannot ever write her off.

6) - 10) Kim is injured, Justine doesn't look at home on a hardcourt, Jelena is still too consistent and has a packed schedule over the summer. Monica is a contender, but I still can't see her defeating any of the 5 women above her (except maybe Jen).

I see Hantuchova entering the Top 10, Amelie could still be there. They both have great chances to do well here.

Elena Dementieva (remember SF 00?) I also pick to make some noise. Just based on history, recreating some magic and the fact she has no points to defend during the hardcourt season and looks to be exiting that slump.

CanIGetAWhat
Jul 7th, 2002, 10:47 PM
1. Serena-the best player atm, everything's working for her: serve at the french and wimbledon was exceptional, movement, mental toughness and is over the hiccup of defeating Venus.

2. Venus-can defeat anyone other than her sister. if she wants to win the US Open, she needs to be more aggressive and dictate play. her loss to Serena at Wimbledon was a wakeup call and i think Venus will be very motivated to defeat Serena this time around.

3. Jennifer-very good on hardcourts, but still comes up short against the Williamses, has never beaten Venus and is on a 7 match losing streak against both of them since the 2001 Canadian Open.

4. Monica-has the heart and desire to win, but not the speed.

5. Kim-depends on how her shoulder's holding up and her form leading up to the USO.

Darkhorses:
Lindsay-if she returns strong this summer, she'll be one of the favorites, ahead of Jennifer, but behind the sisters.

Martina-there are just too many players who can overpower her now, but they still lack the consistency and experience. she'll probably reach the quarters or semis, nothing further than that (unless she meets Iva Majoli in the early rounds :o ). has lost to a Williams sister since 1999 and I think she'll lose to another one this year. if the trend continues, it's Venus' turn :p

Fingon
Jul 7th, 2002, 11:12 PM
1) Serena

Massive gap

2) Venus

Massive gap

3) Monica
4) Jennifer
little gap
5) Davenport
6) Martina
gap
7) Justine
gap
8) Kim
9) Amelie
gap
10) Dokic

"Topaz"
Jul 8th, 2002, 12:05 AM
Allow me to change a few things, Fingon:

1) Serena
2) Venus

Massive gap

3) Jennifer
4) Monica

little gap

5) Amelie
6) Justine
7) Dokic

undefined gap

8) Davenport
9) Martina
10) Kim

Ryan
Jul 8th, 2002, 12:27 AM
Lmao, I never expecated to get all these replies. After reading all of them, I would change mine to fit RockSteady's or irma's, they make many good points.


To some people: Just because you may dislike certain top 10 players, it's very ignorant to not even include them on your list. The question was to order the top 10 players chances. Some people only picked 8, and unless I've been drinknig I'm pretty sure there are 10 players in the top 10.

R. DIS
Jul 8th, 2002, 02:22 AM
Why is everyone putting Monica so high!!!!! Last year it would have been fine but this year she is out of shape and has lost to Amelie, Jelena, Justine, Venus, Serena, Jen, Lindsay, and Martina the last time she's played each of them.

ys
Jul 8th, 2002, 02:48 AM
OK,

1. Venus
2. Serena
3. Hingis
4. Capriati
5. Davenport
6. Dementieva

6 players who reached semifinal or better in two last USO.

Out of top 10 player, ruling out all-one-handers ( Mauresmo, Henin ) and all-two-handers (Seles).

That leaves us with
7. Dokic
8. Clijsters

Remaining two players should be possible darkhorses.

9. Myskina
10. Hantuchova

Fingon
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by ys
OK,

1. Venus
2. Serena
3. Hingis
4. Capriati
5. Davenport
6. Dementieva

6 players who reached semifinal or better in two last USO.

Out of top 10 player, ruling out all-one-handers ( Mauresmo, Henin ) and all-two-handers (Seles).

That leaves us with
7. Dokic
8. Clijsters

Remaining two players should be possible darkhorses.

9. Myskina
10. Hantuchova

ys, I normally agree with you, but are you serious?

Elena and Anastasia don't have a chance in hell, and I like both, but they are faaaaar from ready for a GSs. They need to win a tier 1/2 first and get to a final. Anastasia has played well, she is going forward but a slam???

Plus, you exclude players for being one-handed or all-two-handers.

Well, Monica won the US Open twice, beating Martina Navratilova and ASV, and got to the final another two times, so, I don't think the double-handed is a real problem.

About Justine and Mauresmo, I don't know since when having a one-handed backhand is a liability, Steffi won it 5 times with a one-handed backhand. Sabatini, Navratilova, etc. etc. Justine's problem isn't her backhand :eek: , it's her serve, Amelie's problem isn't her backhand, it's her focus. Rather their backhands are actually their main asset.

Just because a player gets a few wins it doesn't mean she can have a chance, come on, Myskina, who has she beaten? Serena? Venus? Davenport? Hingis?, Jennifer?, Monica? those are the players you have to beat to win a GS, and probably two or three of them, Justine has beaten them all except Davenport and Hingis but she hasn't played them lately. Amelie has beaten most of them.

Elena two years ago could have been named a possible candidate without me falling off the chair, but now, she really has to get her game together and win a tier 2 or 1 before thinking of a GS.

R. DIS
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:16 AM
Hingis won't get past the quarters unless she has an easy draw like last year.

disposablehero
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:20 AM
If you rule out all the one handers and two handers, you won't have many players left.

evadafan
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:25 AM
Well there aren't many you can put ahead of Monica right now! Plus Monica always has a good summer season and with better scheduling and focus could peak at the Open. She did beat Hingis(twice), Capriati, Serena, and Henin in just a few weeks last summer.

ys
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:27 AM
Elena and Anastasia don't have a chance in hell, and I like both, but they are faaaaar from ready for a GSs. They need to win a tier 1/2 first and get to a final. Anastasia has played well, she is going forward but a slam???

Fignon, we are not talking a big chance here. Because two players alone will go with combined 90% chance of winning USO, the remaining field will have to be happy with sharing those remaining 10%. Out of those 10%, 1%, perhaps, belongs to Elena and 0.5% belongs to Nastya. Not woth mentioning, actually..


Well, Monica won the US Open twice, beating Martina Navratilova and ASV, and got to the final another two times, so, I don't think the double-handed is a real problem.

Time has changed. Game is faster now, all-two-hander game is obsolete, even if the best hitter in the sport is equipped with it. Didn't you notice that amount of one-handers Monica hits is growing.. Double-handed forehand is a huge liability on fast courts in terms of maneuverability.

About Justine and Mauresmo, I don't know since when having a one-handed backhand is a liability, Steffi won it 5 times with a one-handed backhand.

And it was perhaps 5 times during those 5 tournaments when she used it as a topspin shot. One-hander backhand is a liability on fastcourts because it requires more time for swing. You just don't have that time with fast contemporary game, so on fastcourts the players with more compact shots have a certain advantage. On slower surfaces, like clay or RA, time is not that critical, and then the bigger swing of one-hander goes from disadvantage to advantage category. I think that players of the future might be even using both backhands depending on surface:).

R. DIS
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:27 AM
You can't deny that Monica was a lot fitter last summer than she is right now. And she needs to be very fit to contend with top players too. That's why I wouldn't put her very high.

Couver
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:36 AM
Wow everyone gave a really good analysis. I would rate the chances like this.

1) Serena-She doesn't seem to get tired or less hungry. She basically wants to win everything she is entered in. I realized that after watching her in doubles :)

2) Venus-Despite what people think has done somewhat better this year than last, especially in the first half of the year. She can beat most people, but Serena is now a problem. She's going to have to be the aggressor to take the US title.

3) Jennifer-She always does well at the slams, plus I think she wants to end the year with two rather than just one. Can beat Serena, but will she? Both Williams are upset she will win.

4) Lindsay-I would have put her at 3 but she is coming back from injury. Lindsay is apparently looking good though and moving well, and with a lower ranking she could pull an upset.

5) Martina-She always does well at the USOpen, I think the break would have done her some good. She could cause an upset due to her ranking. I think she can go far, unless she meets Serena.

6) Monica-I don't think she's done all that bad this year. She's just run into some tough competition. Monica has the game, she just needs to play less tuneups, and not get so tired.

7) Amelie-I was so happy she did well at Wimbledon, she's starting to express her potential.

8) Justine-Actually for not being a power player, she plays Venus and Serena very well, most of the time. And is one of the few lower ranked players who doesn't get intimidated by Jennifer.

Those are my top picks, I would give outside chances to Mary Pierce, if she can get fitter (I hope she can) and Daniela and Jelena.

Fingon
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:37 AM
ys, there isn't a quicker surface than grass, and Justine got to the finals last year and to the semis this year.

Amelie wasn't having a good year and she got to the semifinals of Wimbledon.

Also, both Justine and Amelie can hit a slice backhand quite well, something that most two-handers can't. Steffi won Wimbledon 7 times and the US Open 5 times. And before you said they were the old times, Steffi was in the Wimbledon final in 1999.

The idea that Justine hits more the topspin backhand is a misconception, she doesn't at least not on fast surfaces. She hits the topspin when she can, if she can't she still can hit the slice, don't get Chris Evert fool you, she has no clue.

About Myskina and Elena, 1%? I DON'T think so, I think it's statistically impossible, they would need Capriati, Venus, Serena, Lindsay, Martina, Monica, Justine, Amelie and Kim to go out early, that's not gonna happen.

Also, the forehand requires a swing as well, is a one-handed forehand a liability?

ys
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:49 AM
Fignon, what you said is mostly void, because you bring up grass as the quickest surface. In fact, it is not. Grass is not just quick, quickness of grass is a very secondary issue. The biggest property of grass is low bounce. And that means that the quiclness of the grass really plays mostly in one single shot - return of serve - because a serve is the only shot NOT affected by low bounce. After that in rallies players have to deal with low bounce at each shot. Ball is going nowhere close to their strikezone. If they have to play a topspin shot they have to put more topspin in it to make it higher-percentage shot. And that decreases the average pace of the rally quite a lot. If you compare the pace of rallies in Wimbledon and, say, US Open, you'll see that the rallies at US Open are actually faster than at Wimbledon.

Also, the forehand requires a swing as well, is a one-handed forehand a liability?

Com'n, don't pretend that you don't understand what we are talking about. Most of players on WTA Tour now play open-stance forehands, and that requires very little of body rotation, and hence, not much of time. Can you imagine an open-stance single-handed backhand. The total angle of body rotation in single-handed backhand is incomparable to any other shot.. It's simply much bigger..

QUEENLINDSAY
Jul 8th, 2002, 04:33 AM
SERENA
LINDSAY
JENNIFER
VENUS
MARTINA
KIM
MONICA
JUSTINE
JELENA
AMELIE

NO EXPLANATION, just the way i see it.

Williams Rulez
Jul 8th, 2002, 04:35 AM
1. Serena

2. Venus

3. Lindsay
4. Martina
5. Jennifer

6. Monica
7. Kim
8. Jelena
9. Justine

10. Amelie

RYNJ
Jul 8th, 2002, 04:40 AM
I can't believe people are putting Venus down for the Open. She is one of the best fast hardcourt players ever. AND her U.S. Open record tells a lot.

C'moN!!

1997 - Finals
1998 - Semi
1999 - Semi
2000 - Won
2001 - Won

SHE HAS NEVER LOST BEOFRE A SEMI

Williams Rulez
Jul 8th, 2002, 04:41 AM
Actually you've to agree that on hardcourts Justine's or even Momo's backhand is a liability. Last year, you could see Momo's backhand being overpowered on hardcourts at the US Open. As for Justine, that was almost the case on grass against Venus last year... and this year, it was worse. Now on hardcourts, this problem can only get worse, the ball sits up much higher, and that is a big advantage to a 2 handed backhand, not true for a one handed backhand. Also, one advantage of using the onehanded backhand would be the slice... but on hardcourts, the slice is an ineffective shot to say the least.

selesrules
Jul 8th, 2002, 05:00 AM
A lot of men play double handed both sides including Gambill. If they can play 2 hands both side on the MEN's tour which is way faster, then on the women's tour it definitely should be enough.

Williams Rulez
Jul 8th, 2002, 05:19 AM
Gambill has not got past the first round of a slam for goodness knows how long...

Gandalf
Jul 8th, 2002, 06:27 PM
1-Serena
2-Venus
3-Seles
4-Lindsay
5-Capriati
6-Henin
7-Hingis
8-Dokic
9-Mauresmo
10-Clijsters

Dawn Marie
Jul 8th, 2002, 07:59 PM
Serena
Venus

HUGE GAP


Lindsay

Mini gap


Daniela
Kim if she is together

ONE BIG GIGANTIC GAP as I don't think anyone left can compete with those I mentioned above.

RAA
Jul 8th, 2002, 08:05 PM
I agree with Dawn Marie.

but i think it is VERY hard to make a judgement about Lindsay and Martina without seeing how they are playing off their injury. both have come back strong before, but Serena is at an entirely different level than she was about 12 months ago. If Lindsay or Martina run into Serena in the qfs, they'll have a hard time
getting by her since they're both just back off their injuries.

I think that Venus has been a little off this year - her serve was a bit off during the French and not entirely on during Wimby. Having said that, I think she'll be spitting made at losing Wimby and will make a strong strong push.

but don't rule out Hantuchova or Mauresmo making a BIG big splash at the US open. I feel its time for a "new" face to make their name.

I love monica, but just don't see her winning it. I hope she makes it to the semifinals anyway...

Dirty Sanchez
Jul 8th, 2002, 08:20 PM
1) Serena - Even though I'm not a fan she is the form player at the moment

2) Lindsay- If she comes back fit she could be the one to dethrone Serena. She can cope with the Williams Power tennis.

3) Martina- If Martina hits top form she stands a good chance of winning even though she has struggled with the Williams in the past.

4) Venus- Even though she's not at her peak you can never rule her out

5) Kim- Even though she's never repeated her success at Roland garros this could be the time. She says the shoulder's getting better so it's a possibility. She's beaten Venus before so come om Kim do it again!!.

6) Justine- She's not really made an impact at many tournaments this year but she's been solid all year. On her day can beat anyone.

7)Jennifer- Confidence pretty low at the moment and isn't having a very good time. Despite her talent I can't see her making a big impact.

8)Amelie- She could do it but for some reason never lives up to her potential, maybe if she stops whining about the williams power and finds a way to counter it she'll do better.

9)Hantuchova- Serena swept her away at Wimbledon but she is a very talented player who could do well

10)Seles- Sorry to all the Monica fans but I can't see her making a big impression. She's obviously a good player but in my opinion her Grand Slam winning days are behind her!.

Ryan
Jul 8th, 2002, 09:13 PM
1997 - Finals
1998 - Semi
1999 - Semi
2000 - Won
2001 - Won

SHE HAS NEVER LOST BEOFRE A SEMI


Records mean nothing. Hingis has a great record at almost every slam but she's being put down near 7 on some peoples lists.


96-Semis
97-Wim
98-Final
99-Final
2000-Semis
2001-Semis


Venus looked winded after losing to Serena(I saw that highlight during their doubles final) and she looked quiet and depressed throughout the entire match against Pascual and Suarez. She won't beat Serena at the US Open if Serena plays like she did at Wimbledon. No one will. If she's off-form, it opens the door(slightly) for Jen, Lindsay, Martina, Monica etc.

villa
Jul 8th, 2002, 09:19 PM
Ryan the reason martina has been put down so low is becuase she's coming from a several month injury lay off and is only sheduled to play 1 or 2 tournaments before the us open, who knows what sort of shape she's going to be in.

Ryan
Jul 8th, 2002, 09:25 PM
Yes, but on those same lists, Lindsay is being put at 4 or 5, with Hingis at 7,8,9. I'm just saying that records don't mean a lot after a tough loss, like the one for Venus to Serena.

Buitenzorg
Jul 8th, 2002, 11:25 PM
Katulampa Prediction


01. Martina HINGIS (watch out girls!) (Final)
02. Monica SELES (Final)
03. Jennifer CAPRIATI (Semifinal)
04. Serena WILLIAMS (Final)
05. Justine HENIN (QF or Semifinal)
06. Lindsay DAVENPORT (QF or Semifinal)
07. Daniella HANTUCHOVA (QF)
08. Venus WILLIAMS (QF or Semifinal)
09. Jelena DOKIC (QF)
10. Amelie MAURESMO (QF)

Fingon
Jul 8th, 2002, 11:58 PM
Williams-Rulez

The slice isn't ineffective on hardcourts, it's not as good as on grass but it still works, ask Steffi if you don't believe me.

the true is that many people speak based on what they have been told about one-handed backhands, that requires a lot of back swing, etc. and not actually watching the matches.

Justine doesn't have a big swing, she uses a big swing when she has time but can hit it with very little swing, actually, she hits it faster than many double-handed backhand.

Also, there are double-handed backhands with big back swings.

The fact is that most women have a double-handed backhand because it's easier for them, it's a physical thing, it's easier to get power with two hands and the tennis academies normally don't bother to teach a one-handed that is difficult to master.

Take the men, Pat Rafter won the US Open twice, not so long ago with a one handed backhand. Pete Sampras won it 4 times and got to the finals the last two years.

Steffi won it 5 times with a one-handed backhand.

And ys, there are over 1,000 players in the wta tour, not ALL of them have the same technique on the forehand you know, there are players that have a big backswing on the forehand, Kim for example.

I think people should actually watch the players rather than making assumptions based on what they read in the books.

Some of the best shots in tennis haven't been taught and are unorthodox. If you see Goran's service motion, that's far from orthodox, nobody would teach to serve like that and yet, he has probably the best serve ever

Dawn Marie
Jul 9th, 2002, 12:40 AM
The reason I put Hingis so low is not because of her injury but because her game is stagnant to win slams with. I think even though she has the game that alot of up and coming players will over power her.

Justine is just not slam tough yet. Same with Kim and Amelie. Jelena's game is the same, good but not good enough to win a slam.

Venus
Serena

Lindsay

HUGE GAP

Kim


Jennifer
Monica
Justine

Jelena
Amelie

GAP
Hingis

Terri77
Jul 9th, 2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Vanity
10) Venus (no chance)

Now didn't you say the same thing before Wimbledon?

Vanity
Jul 9th, 2002, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Terri77


Now didn't you say the same thing before Wimbledon?

Do you think I have faith in my predictions? :p
Please, don't take me too seriously, it's bad for your health. :wavey:

R. DIS
Jul 9th, 2002, 12:50 AM
I think people that put Venus so low and say she has no chance are really just hoping and wishing. Venus will beat everyone except Serena or Jen.

Terri77
Jul 9th, 2002, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Vanity
Do you think I have faith in my predictions? :p
Please, don't take me too seriously, it's bad for your health. :wavey:

Well, only if you're sure that you don't want to place money on these predictions. Just the Venus one that is. :D

ys
Jul 9th, 2002, 01:01 AM
Take the men, Pat Rafter won the US Open twice, not so long ago with a one handed backhand. Pete Sampras won it 4 times and got to the finals the last two years.
Steffi won it 5 times with a one-handed backhand.

Fignon, sometimes I doubt that you are actually able to read.
Steffi didn't hit one-handed topspin backhand very often. And she won her last US Open in ancient 96 when the only other power top player on Tour was Seles.


As to the men - that's laughable - they are serve-and-volley/chip-and-charge players, aren't they? They didn't win it from the baseline, did they? Put either Sampras or Rafter into backhand rallies against Agassi, Safin or even Kafelnikov and they will be losing the majority of those rallies. And women have to win it from the baseline these days.


And just to put it to rest - if words are not enough - check records of Henin and Mauresmo on US hardcourts. Mauresmo loves them so much that she skips IW and Miami every year. The only result of any significance for Mauresmo was last year USO QF where she had very easy daw. Henin doesn't have even that. Neither has ever beaten a Top 10 player on the surface. Either has a much better record on any other surface.

jd4eva
Jul 9th, 2002, 01:09 AM
Excellent analysis ys

Fingon
Jul 9th, 2002, 01:36 AM
YS, I think you are the one unable to read.

First, Justine doesn't only hit a topspin backhand but the 10th time.

Even if it was true that a topspin backhand was a liability, she still could use the slice backhand couldn't she? is there a law that forbids that?

In fact she hits the slice more often than the topspin, if you had ever seen her you would have known that.

And she doesn't have a big backswing on the backhand, that's a misconception, as I said before, don't believe everything you read.

As per Steffi, do you really think she wouldn't have a chance now? that she would only win a GS in "ancient times", then you tennis knowledge is very very poor.

As per Rafter, Sampras, yes, the are serve and volleyers, so?, we are asking here if a single-handed backhand is a liability or not, don't try to twist everything to accomodate it to your theory.

As per grass not being the fastest surface, you have no clue what you are talking about, it's way faster than hardcourts fyi, the low bounce is another charasteristic of grass, not the only one. On grass, many shots that come back on hardcourts are winners, you admitted yourself that the serve isn't affected by the low bounce (which isn't true but nevermind) so, why would the serve be more important on grass than on hardcourts? huh?

About Henin or Mauresmo's records on hardcourts, that has nothing to do with the one-handed backhand but to not feeling comfortable enough on that surface.

You can't just say "a one handed backhand is bad for hardcourts" and then try to back it up with results, because those results maybe due to other reasons, you are just assuming they don't have good results because of the one-handed backhand but that's your problem.

Amelie doesn't play much on hardcourts and she obviously doesn't like it, I don't think Justine likes the american hardcourts either, that has nothing to do with ONE shot.

You think what I said if laughable, what about putting Anastasia Myskina with chances to win the US Open? that isn't even laughable, it's plain stupid.

Asmus
Jul 9th, 2002, 01:56 AM
I'll go with 11 of the top 12, considering #11 Testud has retired and thus has zero chance of winning.

1. Serena: Obvious choice. Won USO before, on a roll.
2. Venus: Why are people writing her off? She still has a chance to beat Serena, and there is still a chance Serena could lose before the finals, in which case Venus would be the favourite
3. Davenport: She will come back healthy and hungry to avenge her tight losses to the sisters in the past few years.
4. Capriati: If she can improve her serve, she has a good chance. Will be very determined.
5. Hantuchova: She's probably the only one of the remaining players who truly believes she can win the whole thing, and she has the game to back it up.
6. Hingis: Also needs to improve her serve, but if she does, she will have a good chance. She is at her best when returning from injury.
7. Seles: The only player in the past year who has beaten both Venus and Serena. And both wins came on hard courts! If she doesn't tire herself out in the warm-up tournaments and is in good shape, she has a chance. Still a long shot though, as she hasn't advanced past the quarters since 1996.
8. Mauresmo: The only remaining player with both the size and the game to take the whole thing. Mentally she probably isn't there, but has a chance.
9. Henin: She's been easily overpowered at the USO before and most likely will be again. Simply not big enough to win the USO.
10. Clijsters: Has the size, but is beatable even when at her best, and her health is also suspect.
11. Dokic: Playing all 5 warm-up events is NOT a good idea, and she has yet to defeat one of the "big babes" at a major. Come to think of it, she doesn't have any really good wins over the big babes at all, save for one win over Venus on clay when she was returning from injury and out of form.

ys
Jul 9th, 2002, 02:05 AM
As per Steffi, do you really think she wouldn't have a chance now? that she would only win a GS in "ancient times", then you tennis knowledge is very very poor.

Steffi Graf is one of my favourite players. But Steffi now? Steffi at her best against Williams sisters now? Sorry, no contest. Would she be a Top 10 contender now? Of course she would. She would be #3, for sure. but not because of the one-hander. But because she had something else to win the points. No baseline player with one-hander EVER had that something else of comparable caliber, because that was the best tennis weapon ever.

As per Rafter, Sampras, yes, the are serve and volleyers, so?, we are asking here if a single-handed backhand is a liability or not, don't try to twist everything to accomodate it to your theory.

I don't even know what to say.. If there would be a WTA serve&volley player of Sampras/Rafter caliber, you could have a point. But there is no such player. If Venus Williams would decide to become s&v player and would switch to one-hander here, of course she might have a good chance. But we are not talking about hypothetical players, we are talking a typical WTA field for last 5 years.


As per grass not being the fastest surface, you have no clue what you are talking about

I certainly do. But we are talking on different things. You mean
how difficult it is to retrieve shots. I am talking average speed of the shots. I can bet you, that average speed of the shots in rallies on hardcourts is higher than on grass. It can't be any other way - because the ball bounces higher and therefore can be hit much flatter than on grass.

About Henin or Mauresmo's records on hardcourts, that has nothing to do with the one-handed backhand but to not feeling comfortable enough on that surface.

What a wonderful coincidence. They seem to be the only Top 10 players who are clearly uncomfortable on the surface, and also the only two with one-handed backhanded.

You think what I said if laughable, what about putting Anastasia Myskina with chances to win the US Open?

You think putting a Top 15 player with steadily growing rankings into Top 10 contenders is laughable? I do not think so.

Asmus
Jul 9th, 2002, 02:08 AM
I thought about my post and decided thta I should add two more:

12. Elena Dementieva: Has the size and the game to win in New York, as she proved a couple years ago. In fact, her win over Davenport on carpet would suggest that she can even hang with the big babes. However, her mentality is so fragile that she has very little chance. But isn't mentality easier to repair than game, easier for Elena to gain confidence than it is for Henin to grow 5 inches? In terms of legitimate shot to win, perhaps she should be higher.

13. Mary Pierce: Has the size, the game AND the mentality to win, and is growing in confidence with every tournament she plays. She strongly desires a US Open title. Her biggest liability is her fitness, so hopefully she can improve upon that, in addition to staying injury-free.

Asmus
Jul 9th, 2002, 02:14 AM
ys, Steffi would still have a chance against the Williams sisters! It would be very close and they had some great matches right before she retired when neither she nor the Williamses were at their best.

RockSteady
Jul 9th, 2002, 04:09 AM
"I think even though she has the game that alot of up and coming players will over power her."

:rolleyes:

With the sole exception of Hantuchova, have you ever seen what Hingis does to up-and-comers? Most players take a few matches before they can beat Hingis, because her style of game is very different from anyone else. She crushed Venus, Clijsters, Henin, Myskina, Kournikova, Bedanova, and TONS of talented players when she first played them.

And unless she has a draw against Schnyder, Coetzer, and Martinez, she is going to be overpowered if she loses just like anyone else, because 90% of the top 20 are power players. Duh. Anyone who loses, at this time on the WTA, is 'overpowered'.

Fingon
Jul 9th, 2002, 04:30 AM
is not laughable to put a player that hasn't beaten any top player (not even come close) hasn't won any important tournament?, just because she is top 15, and that makes more sense than putting her ahead of a Wimbledon finalist and an Australian Open finalist, no, not laughable at all :rolleyes:

I bet everything I have that A. Myskina has no chances of winning the US Open, not 1%, not 0.1% 0.00%, no chances, and anyone with a little knowledge knows that.

A side note, last year Justine played Serena Williams on hardcourts, Serena was playing really well, she trashed Martina, she beat Davenport.

The second set was a blow out, Justine totally gave up, but the first set was very closed, 7-5 and just defined at the end.

The first few games, Serena was playing to the backhand and Justine was winning the points, then Serena avoided the backhand side. Why did Serena do that if a one-handed backhand is such a liability? huh?

Justine took Venus to 3 sets in New Haven, last time I checked it was on hardcourts, and that year Venus won the US Open, how many times has Myskina done that?, with her double-handed backhand?

I am sorry but to put player that has improving results but hasn't won anything yet as contender with more chances that players that have been in GS finals and have beaten nearly all top 10 is absolutely ridiculous.

And back to Steffi, being a fan has nothing to do, I am not a fan of her, in fact, I never liked her, to say Steffi "now" is ridiculous, she is not playing, she is not training and she would probably be passed her best age, but that's not the point is it? Billie Jean King NOW wouldn't have a chance against Smashnova would she?, it's about the game not a real chance of Steffi playing. You said Steffi won the US Open because there weren't power players except Monica, what about Mary? what about Davenport?

And talking about Monica, according to you Myskina has more chances than her, I am sorry I couldn't address this before but I was laughing so hard that I fell off my chair.

hmmm Monica in 2001, yes, 2001, that's last year beat Serena, guess what? on hardcourts, isn't Serena a good hardcourt player? or maybe Monica played one handed that match.

hmmm, she also beat Jennifer, and Martina, and at the CanadianOpen, a tired Monica gave Serena, the eventual champion a lot of trouble. Oh sorry, that happened in ancient times, it was only last year.

Now you will say that Panova also has a chance, after all she is russian isn't she?

Williams Rulez
Jul 9th, 2002, 09:46 AM
Well, I'm not sure if the one handed backhand is a liability on hardcourts or not. I only watched 1 match of Justine's on hardcourts, so I really can't comment. ONe thing for sure, I watched Momo, and she definitely had problems on her backhand on hardcourts. She always took the ball late and if you hit into her body hard enough, she'll not get it across. She just couldn't move away from the ball while taking a backswing, a problem I would imagine that women with 2 handed BH will less likely have.

Whatever the case is, Justine and Momo are clearly not as comfortable on hardcourts as the rest of the top 10 with the possible exception of Sandrine and Jelena.

FP
Jul 9th, 2002, 12:31 PM
absolutely agree with u cybelledarkholmexx ;)
it's very difficult to predict while not watching hingis and davenport for so long...
we can say for sure only about sisters they have a biggest chance and others well the situation with others actually is total mess :o absolutely inpredictable :(
I would still put my money on Serena according to her present shape...

Ryan
Jul 9th, 2002, 02:53 PM
Now you will say that Panova also has a chance, after all she is russian isn't she?


Lmao! I'm in stitches!:D


I really have absolutely no clue HOW people can put players liek Hantuchova, Amelie, and Jelena higher then other top 10 players. Now, I'm not saying you're wrong, etc. just saying I (as in ME) doesn't see how. Lindsay and Martina on a bad day are better then those three on hard courts msot of the time. I know after being out so long Lindsay will be out for blood, and won't let sub-tier top 10ers like Jelena, or Amelie beat her. In my most humble opinion that is.

Vincent
Jul 10th, 2002, 05:22 AM
Serena
(a gap)
Martina
(a gap)
Venus
(a gap)
Lindsay
(a gap)
Jennifer
(A LARGE GAP)
Daniela
(a gap)
Amelie
Dokic(10% only)
Justine(5% only)

It doesn't mean i don't like Justine, but.....
she really bother by her height. her comparitively(sp?) weaker backhand is a problem. why using one hand backhand?

Williams Rulez
Jul 10th, 2002, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Ryan15
Lmao! I'm in stitches!:D


I really have absolutely no clue HOW people can put players liek Hantuchova, Amelie, and Jelena higher then other top 10 players. Now, I'm not saying you're wrong, etc. just saying I (as in ME) doesn't see how. Lindsay and Martina on a bad day are better then those three on hard courts msot of the time. I know after being out so long Lindsay will be out for blood, and won't let sub-tier top 10ers like Jelena, or Amelie beat her. In my most humble opinion that is. Jelena is real weird... she plays well indoors, but not on hardcourts. I mean the difference is there, but does it warrat such drastic differences in results? :eek:

Verve
Jul 10th, 2002, 12:30 PM
Fingon,

I don't want to mix up in this discussion (all right, I'm already doing it:)), but I've got to say something: why do you want to win these discussions so badly? I mean, you're right, you have very good arguments about many things in this discussion, but so does ys. For example, the thing about Steffi: you say that she still WOULD have a chance against the powerplayers now, and that's true, of course, but ys is stating the facts and that's the right thing. I mean, it's TRUE that Steffi hasn't won anymore since the so-called 'power revolution'. It's true that she won her last US Open in '96, and you know - just like everybody else - that Monica, Lindsay and Mary were not at their very best at that Slam. Monica never really managed to get her old form back (well okay, '96 was still a very good year but even then). Lindsay won the Olympic games, that's right, but it wasn't until '98 that she really developed her mental game along with her tennis game and became an absolute top player. As for Mary, well, she's a very up-and-down player and I don't really consider her as an all-time-great, altough she's achieved many great things in her career.
Okay, you're right, of course Steffi would have a chance, of course she COULD have won it the years after that, if she hadn't been injured, of course this, of course that... But ys is basing himself on the facts, and that's just as good of an argument, if not better.
I'm not wanting to prove you wrong, as I actually agree with you on most things, but keep in mind that this is just a simple discussion, not an 'I'm-right-you're-wrong-battle'. I also think ys seems to be thinking this (with the 'you are unable to read'-stuff). lol:) I sound like my own mother here!
no, it's just that people should discuss more friendly here on the board. And that's at the same time nobody's and everybody's fault.

Informative
Jul 10th, 2002, 01:23 PM
Anyone who thinks that Serena is going to dominate Venus from this point forward is simply delusional or engaging in wishful thinking. Venus will make whatever necessary readjustments she has to in order to beat her sister again at the U.S. Open. The obvious bias that many on this board and elsewhere in cyberspace has against Venus seems to have a great deal more to do with whether one 'likes' Venus's public personality than with her tennis game. Suffice it to be said for now that Venus still has a record of 65-7 or .902 over the past 12 months (to Serena's slightly better 52-5 or .912) and that they have both won 2GS slams over that span. So contrary to the exaggerated, overheated rhetoric of some posters on this board there is no GAP between the sisters. The truth is that neither Serena nor Venus is going to be able to completely dominate the other from here on. The idea that Serena is simply going to steamroll Venus at the USO is not only untrue but RIDICULOUS. Venus has ALWAYS thrived on adversity in her career (for starters ask Davenport, Hingis, Capriati, Henin, and Seles and Serena herself about Venus's collective record against them since June, 2000). For the record Venus is 7-1 against Lindsay, 4-1 against Martina, 7-1 against Seles, 3-0 against Capriati, 7-1 against Henin, and now 4-4 against Serena) so far in the 21st century or the past 30 months. She has beaten them all in head-to-head competition at every major tournament in her career and she will again, Serena included. So let's not get ahead of ourselves based on the results of Venus's last two matches against her sister. This is the not the 'end' of anything for Venus. Serena knows, even if many of you don't, that Venus is going to beat her again, and much sooner than anyone thinks, LOL. Thus the pecking order at this years USO is: Venus followed by Serena, Lindsay, Monica, Jennifer, and Justine. Venus Williams is one of the greatest and smartest players in the history of the game and is going to prove it definitively the rest of her career (as if her phenomenal match record of 128-15 and 4GS majors over the past two years didn't already tell you what kind of player she is). The best is yet to come for both Venus and Serena.

irma
Jul 10th, 2002, 01:46 PM
Steffi is retired and she is still the hottest item of this thread, what a champion :cool:

(sorry I am inspired by selesrules and selesadmirer;))

Williams Rulez
Jul 10th, 2002, 02:28 PM
*Appalause* for Informative

That was a really well articulated post... simply writing Venus off is ridiculous. So of the things I've read recently really make for good laughs. To suggest that Venus would be mentally devastated by her loses to the point where she'd stop winning so many matches is just... laughable. Sorry, but it really is. How many times has Venus or for that matter, Serena been written off. It is just wishful thinking.

Ryan
Jul 10th, 2002, 02:51 PM
Jelena is real weird... she plays well indoors, but not on hardcourts. I mean the difference is there, but does it warrat such drastic differences in results?



Lmao, that is pretty weird. I enjoyed her being crushed by Martina at the USOpen last year.:D

irma
Jul 10th, 2002, 02:53 PM
jelena did wel in brasil and tokio last year
maybe she just dislikes America?

Greenout
Jul 10th, 2002, 02:57 PM
1) Serena - Duh. That's a no brainer.
2) Venus - Another no brainer
3) Jenn- She's not under pressure now.
4) Lindsay- What can we say? She's the only
one that can battle the power of the top 3
5) Hingis- Why not? She's done it before.
6) Justine- She's fired up.
7) Amelie- Ditto and on form too.
8) Daniela- This girl won INDIAN WELLS. She knows
her way around hardcourt.
9) Monica- She's always got a chance.
10) Dokic- I know people are expecting Kim to do
better;but she's too involved w/ Hewitt. Jelena
at the current moment has a better chance.

Greenout
Jul 10th, 2002, 02:59 PM
P.S Dokic did well in the Toyota Princess Cup which is
an outdoor hardcourt event. If she can do grass, she
can do hardcourt.

Williams Rulez
Jul 10th, 2002, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by irma
jelena did wel in brasil and tokio last year
maybe she just dislikes America? lol... you may just be right. She did well at indoor hardcourt tournaments which were not in the US... as well as outdoor hardcourt tournaments not in the US. Maybe she just do well in the US.... :confused:

Volcana
Jul 10th, 2002, 03:07 PM
This isn't 'who's better'.


Serena & Venus - The new Chris & Martina.

Lindsay (assuming Oct 2001 form)

Justine (My 'real world' #3)

Jenn

Jelena (Injury hurting results)

Martina (assuming Oct 2001 form)

Kim (Injury hurting results)

Monica *

Amelie

I wound up putting Monica behind players she's clearly better than. I just don't see Monica wining a GS title anyymore. Ask me again in a month. I've probably giving to much weight to that loss to Justine.

Williams Rulez
Jul 10th, 2002, 03:11 PM
No way Justine is better than Martina or Monica or Jennifer on hardcourts. It just isn't happening IMO. IN fact Jelena is better on hardcourts than Justine too. The records speak for themselves.

Volcana
Jul 10th, 2002, 03:44 PM
Don't bash people for makig their honest predictions. Some of us let our fondest hopes blind us to reality. I though the US would beat Grermany and the Nets would beat the Lakers. Life proved me divorced from reality.

In 1998, a LOT of people predicted Anna would be better than Venus. That could still happen, but so far it looks delusional.

A lot of people said the 2002 WB final would be boring.

People ranking Venus #6 - #10 actually believe that. It SEEMS like they've late their emotions destroy their reasoning ability, but why don't we wait and see? Not many of us picked Serena to win RG. We'll pul this thread back up right beforew the US Open, and we'll see then who reasoning clearly and who's delusional.

Monica Seles has a LOT of fans. Im sure a lot of them actually BELEIVE Monica has a better chance of winning the USOpen than Venus. If they've drawn that conclusion based on the facts, what could you or I say to persuade them otherwise?

RockSteady
Jul 10th, 2002, 05:03 PM
Lmao, that is pretty weird. I enjoyed her being crushed by Martina at the USOpen last year.

LOL, I remember before the match, Jelena was talking about how she liked playing Martina because she can beat that style of tennis. :p Then she won the first three games. :sad: Then she lost the next 12 of 13, and ate a bagel. :eek: :)

Verve
Jul 10th, 2002, 05:08 PM
BTW, my list:

1. Venus (she's definitely fired up now. Wimbledon was already very painfull, now she won't let it come so far that she even loses her home-title.)
2. Serena (I just don't see her winning three Slams in a row, her confidence is high, but after having already won 2 Slams back-to-back, I can hardly imagine that she's still hungrier than Venus. Very close bet though)

BIG GAP

3. Martina (having seen the Roland Garros and Wimbledon-finals lying in her hospital-bed, she must have gotten pretty mad:) The time to study her 2 toughest rivals and to maybe regroup and get focussed will do her good)
4. Lindsay (see Martina. I don't put her at 3 because I think Lindsay needs more time to get in her groove after a comeback. Martina is a player who hits hot form right when she comes back, but then tends to cool off a bit. Lindsay grows to her best form. A lot will depend on how she fares at the warm-up tournies.)
5. Capriati (she seems to have lost the very great form that saw her win AO and FO 2001. After this year's AO, she never reached those great hights again. Besides, she hasn't beaten a Williams since last year's Wimbledon, something players like Kim, Justine and Monica have done this year. Still very consistent and good results though, also in contrary of Kim and Justine (consistency))
Little gap
6. Kim ((IF she's on and IF her shoulder doesn't trouble her too much, she should do well here. She's not a player that sinks into lengthy slumps, she'll get out of this one. A lot will depend on the warm-up tournies. If she doesn't overplay but still (finally) gets a good match-rhythm, she could hit her AO-form here again. I also think hard courts suit her game quite well).
7. Monica (if Kim isn't totally healthy, put Monica at 6. She's very consistent, but hasn't got the big weapons anymore to beat at least one Williams and a Martina, Lindsay or Jennifer here. I just hope she doesn't overplay (like she did last year), because a top-form Monica could well sneak in into the semi's.)
8. Amélie (very close behind. She must be on a high after that Wimbledon semi and playing very well again, though I don't think all the mental problems have flown over by now. The hardcourts don't exactly favour her game either.)
9. Justine (also very close, could easily swap places with Amélie. But I think Amélie's mentally on a little higher note. But if Justine's on, she can give anyone trouble. But like Amélie, the hardcourts are certainly not an advantage to her game.)
GAP
10. Daniela (good hard court player, mentally getting stronger, great game. If she'd have the same experience as the others, I'd definitely put her at #6. I just don't beat her all the top-players just yet. First she's got to gain more experience. Next year she could definitely be one of the real co-favourites.)
11. Jelena (fans will say this is not very honourful, but I just don't see the real great spark of Jelena's game, in contrary to all the other top-10 players, who all have something special. To me her game's just too one-dimensional. She's a good player tough and especially mentally quite strong, but she won't do the top-players too much harm.)

NOTE:
6 to 9 are very close.
If Kim's not totally healthy, she falls outside top-11. I only rank her at #6 if she's 100% fit.

I don't see anyone taking this tourney if the Williams sisters play all their matches in Wimbledon-form. It all depends on them. If they find their top-form once again, they won't lose.

Verve
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:37 AM
*bump*