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View Full Version : Venus and Serena still the best two players in the world


venus_rulez
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:18 PM
True Williams fans have always known it and two slams this year they've come out of "nowhere" to win slams beating the best in the world to do so. But the real reason they are true champions is because they've now both won 2 slams when they weren't at their best. It's "easy" to win slams when you're the best in the world and blowing through the competition anyway, but when you have to fight and doubt yourself that little bit, and recover from injury, and not have the same results you're used to, it takes an insane amount of character to come back. I'm not going to use names, but it surely puts a lot of other players careers into perespective that were only able to win slams at the absoulute height of their abilities.

woosey
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:25 PM
yes they are. like roaches, the haters and posers have scrambled off now that the lights have been turned on.

catkey94
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Agreed. The Williams Sisters are still the best. Richard and Oracene should be proud for raising and coaching two great champions.

Jasmin
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:29 PM
I agree when they are on they are the best. They certainly are mentally stronger than the top players.

jmosh
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:38 PM
They are indeed the best! I wish they could get their rankings to reflect that!

sweetpeas
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Agree with all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Little "sis,was there all the way till the end.What a family.

Tennisaddict
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:42 PM
Was there ever any doubt about that? Venus and Serena in good form are simply the best. They have proven that many times now. If their injuries are not too serious we could have an all-Williams final at the US Open and the YEC as well.

cellophane
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:46 PM
How can you say Venus didn't play her best tennis? Of course, she played like crap in the first 3 rounds, but from then on she's played "lights out".

Wannabeknowitall
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:50 PM
True Williams fans have always known it and two slams this year they've come out of "nowhere" to win slams beating the best in the world to do so. But the real reason they are true champions is because they've now both won 2 slams when they weren't at their best. It's "easy" to win slams when you're the best in the world and blowing through the competition anyway, but when you have to fight and doubt yourself that little bit, and recover from injury, and not have the same results you're used to, it takes an insane amount of character to come back. I'm not going to use names, but it surely puts a lot of other players careers into perespective that were only able to win slams at the absoulute height of their abilities.

Justine has won a slam for 5 straight years.
Justine wasn't at her best in 2005 at the French Open.
She was just coming back on tour at Miami and less than 3 months later she was the winner of the French Open.
Almost half of her matches during that time went to 3 sets and yet she won every match that clay season.

I don't see why that's any different than what Venus or Serena did.
The clay season is three times as long as the grass or rebound ace season and yet she won every match even with an hamstring injury during the end of her Roland Garros run.

Sometimes I feel a few people on here would rather knock down people's accomplishments just to bring up another's.

I felt that Venus was the 2nd best player of this generation and I fought for that with her accomplisments in doubles, etc. in a thread a few weeks ago.
There's no denying that she is now.

At the same time Justine is a true champion.
And she's had to fight for her slams just as Venus and Serena.

AlwaysGraf
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:41 PM
I don't know

Congrats to Venus- By the way I was surprised at how ok I was with Venus winning than say with Serena winning. Now, I know it's because she's the less arrogant sister.

To be honest, I think Justine would have won the final had she got there. Such a missed opportunity Justine.

However, back to the title topic, what has Justine not done this last few years not to be considered the best also. She's won a lot more than both sisters!

Matt01
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:07 PM
Let's all have a look at the rankings, that come out on monday, to see who is still the best player in the world. I have a vague feeling, though, that it will be a little girl from Belgium and not Venus or Serena. :angel:

cellophane
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:11 PM
Why didn't anyone start a thread like this when Henin won the French or Sharapova the US Open? :confused:

Thanx4nothin
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:12 PM
Let's all have a look at the rankings, that come out on monday, to see who is still the best player in the world. I have a vague feeling, though, that it will be a little girl from Belgium and not Venus or Serena. :angel:

Hmmm because the rankigns really matter don't they...:rolleyes: ...anyway, yes as everyone knows, other than on clay, when they are on form they are the best.

The Crow
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:13 PM
lol, venus_rulez. Let me get this straight. Venus is the best player because she sucks all year and then wins Wimbledon out of the blue? Ah well...

woosey
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Why didn't anyone start a thread like this when Henin won the French or Sharapova the US Open? :confused:

if you have to ask....:rolleyes:

woosey
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:15 PM
lol, venus_rulez. Let me get this straight. Venus is the best player because she sucks all year and then wins Wimbledon out of the blue? Ah well...

precisely. just shows how great she is. to show up and win the top tournament in all of tennis.

cellophane
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:17 PM
if you have to ask....:rolleyes:

No, I really don't have to ask delusional posters like you. :lol: Let me guess : because they were not the best players in the world? :o

Matt01
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:18 PM
Hmmm because the rankigns really matter don't they...:rolleyes: ...anyway, yes as everyone knows, other than on clay, when they are on form they are the best.

Then why are they so seldomly on form?

And yes, rankings do matter.

ivanban
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:20 PM
Venus and Serena still the best two players in the world

Based on what?!!! :rolleyes:

Serena played 2 good tournaments this year, and Venus 1 1/2 good tournament.
There are few other players that achieved great results this year, too.

woosey
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:20 PM
No, I really don't have to ask delusional posters like you. :lol:

that fourth wimbledon title that v has and the eighth slam serena won this year - two of the three so far - i suppose are delusions as well.

:rolleyes:

woosey
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:22 PM
Based on what?!!! :rolleyes:

Serena played 2 good tournaments this year, and Venus 1 1/2 good tournament.
There are few other players that achieved great results this year, too.

it doesn't matter if jankovic won x tournaments this year or that ivanovic won x...

they have not won any slams so far. period. slams qualify you as great.

at the end of the day (and a career) that's all that matters.

so serena played two good tournaments - gee, she won a slam and what is considered the fifth slam.

and venus won her fourth wimbledon.

and that's supposed to equal to other folks' victories.

puhleez.

woosey
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:24 PM
Then why are they so seldomly on form?

And yes, rankings do matter.

evidently they are on form when it truly matters.

why do you people insist on acting as though slams are rehearsals for some tier II event?

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:25 PM
I'll go to the grave saying that Venus and Serena will always be the #1 and #2 players in the world...i dont care WHO is ranked #1 and 2. They only loose when they are injured or not playing well...(as they say all the time) now thats my opinion and if anybody dont like it thats just too damn bad!

azinna
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:27 PM
We'll have to see what happens as the tour shifts to the summer hard courts, but it would be fair to look to Justine, Serena and (now) Venus as the 3 top contenders for the tournaments they enter.

ivanban
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:30 PM
I'll go to the grave saying that Venus and Serena will always be the #1 and #2 players in the world...i dont care WHO is ranked #1 and 2. They only loose when they are injured or not playing well...(as they say all the time) now thats my opinion and if anybody dont like it thats just too damn bad!

Great then that WTA list isn't formed by your criterias :rolleyes:

venus_rulez
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:31 PM
Then why are they so seldomly on form?

And yes, rankings do matter.


Normally they do, but not with the Williams Sisters. Serena won a major as 81 in the world. Venus has now won Wimbledon twice as the lowest seed to do so. And the would number one lost to an unheralded 18th seed. That's why they play the matches, rankings don't mean anything if you can't live up to them.

venus_rulez
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:33 PM
Based on what?!!! :rolleyes:

Serena played 2 good tournaments this year, and Venus 1 1/2 good tournament.
There are few other players that achieved great results this year, too.


Yes, but to put it together at a slam taking out the calibre of players they did playing pretty close to their best brand of tennis shows that when they play at that high a level no one can beat them. Continue to doubt them if you want to, but I promise it will be at your fave's expense :bounce:

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:36 PM
Great then that WTA list isn't formed by your criterias :rolleyes:

you can roll your eyes all you want...nobody didnt mentioned WTA criterias ...smartass...i'm stating my opinion...and what I believe in...obviously my opinion and criterias struck some type of importance to you since you just had to quote me.....*lawd let me get off wtaworld for a minute b4 i end up cussing somebody out*

littlebin
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:38 PM
So why ranking means something in RG & Wimbledon Qtr?

Normally they do, but not with the Williams Sisters. Serena won a major as 81 in the world. Venus has now won Wimbledon twice as the lowest seed to do so. And the would number one lost to an unheralded 18th seed. That's why they play the matches, rankings don't mean anything if you can't live up to them.

ivanban
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:38 PM
Yes, but to put it together at a slam taking out the calibre of players they did playing pretty close to their best brand of tennis shows that when they play at that high a level no one can beat them. Continue to doubt them if you want to, but I promise it will be at your fave's expense :bounce:

I'm not saying that my fave is better than them (although JJ proved it vs. Venus 3 times in a row, but who's counting). All I'm saying that they are not capable of withstanding whole season of lets say 15+ tournaments. Serena can't even play 2 tournaments in a row without injuring herself :hug:

venus_rulez
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:42 PM
I'm not saying that my fave is better than them (although JJ proved it vs. Venus 3 times in a row, but who's counting). All I'm saying that they are not capable of withstanding whole season of lets say 15+ tournaments. Serena can't even play 2 tournaments in a row without injuring herself :hug:


But they don't have to they've already dominated the game, their place is already secured in history. They're playing for icing on the cake now. My point is that players like Jankovic, Petrova, etc have to do that now cause they're not bringing it at slams.

venus_rulez
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:45 PM
So why ranking means something in RG & Wimbledon Qtr?

I don't understand what you are saying

cellophane
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:48 PM
Venus is the best player this year on grass (and period). How does winning Wimbledon make her the best right now though, I don't know. Other players have performed more consistently at slams in recent years and one winning slam performance doesn't make you the best in the world.

Matt01
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:51 PM
Serena can't even play 2 tournaments in a row without injuring herself :hug:

And this is very, very sad. And I mean that just like I said it.

littlebin
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:52 PM
I am saying if ranking doesn't mean anything to Williams. Why No.8 lost to No.1 in RG Qtr? Why No.7 lost to No.1 in Wimbledon?

At least Ranking works sometime.

I don't understand what you are saying

DavidEllul
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:52 PM
Venus is the best player this year on grass (and period). How does winning Wimbledon make her the best right now though, I don't know. Other players have performed more consistently at slams in recent years and one winning slam performance doesn't make you the best in the world.

lol nope williams never need a reason to be the best right now :lol: they simply are :devil:

ivanban
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:53 PM
But they don't have to they've already dominated the game, their place is already secured in history. They're playing for icing on the cake now. My point is that players like Jankovic, Petrova, etc have to do that now cause they're not bringing it at slams.

I never said that Jankovic (and especially Petrova) are or have ever been best in the world

littlebin
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:56 PM
If Williams are the best now, why they & Richard want so desperately to get No.1 ranking again? Simply because they know they are not the best yet.

The Crow
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:58 PM
So what you all really mean is that Venus, Serena and Justine are the best three players in the world? That's what I conclude from the discussion in here anyway...

venus_rulez
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:00 PM
If Williams are the best now, why they & Richard want so desperately to get No.1 ranking again? Simply because they know they are not the best yet.


They are not desperate to do anything. They are still motivated to play good tennis because they know they have the game, talent, and ability to do even more. But with this Wimbledon, and with the one in '05, Venus had already proven she was a champion. As I said, they're playing for icing on the cake now.

-Sonic-
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:00 PM
Hmmmmm, they're really not.

Not right now anyways.... maybe soon. But not now, not at all.

supergrunt
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:03 PM
They have always been the best. They only lose when they play poorly.

supergrunt
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:04 PM
And if not then they are tied.

littlebin
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:04 PM
Not at all? How many times Richard & Serena said " I think I can be back to No.1" blah, blah. They want the ranking so desperately. They care so much about ranking.

venus_rulez
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Not at all? How many times Richard & Serena said " I think I can be back to No.1" blah, blah. They want the ranking so desperately. They care so much about ranking.


THey may want it, but they don't desperately need it. THey come to play whatever their ranking.

supergrunt
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:06 PM
They also say that you can throw the numbers out, becuase they don't mean a thing.

Keaka
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:07 PM
I don't completely agree.They do belong in a group of top 5.

But you can't just write off Justine Henin.Maybe in this particulary moment, they seem as the best just because Serena was injured against Henin and because Venus easily defeated Bartoli.But that's just because of the momentum right now.Justine led 61 10 with a break yesterday, but let off.This doesn't happen often to her.She probably would win easily if she would go 61 20 or 61 30.These things happen, but I still believe she is the best player right now, allthough the Williams sisters are very close. :D

ivanban
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:14 PM
They have always been the best. They only lose when they play poorly.

Isn't that the case with all top players :confused:

supergrunt
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:58 PM
No

supergrunt
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:59 PM
Maria is usually out-played, as well as Justine, Mauresmo, Jelena.. the rest of the top ten.

Matt01
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:03 PM
Maria is usually out-played, as well as Justine, Mauresmo, Jelena.. the rest of the top ten.

Just like Serena when she loses. And don't forget Venus...

nhissan
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:05 PM
:yawn:

supergrunt
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:06 PM
Just like Serena when she loses. And don't forget Venus...

I specifically named them as exceptions. :yawn:

Nicolás89
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:09 PM
No

did you see 01 ao :shrug: if i remember correctly martina outplayed venus there

Oh and remember this french open serena had like 3 more ues than juju :shrug:

kiwifan
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Okay my final comment - off to go play soccer after lingering in the beautiful afterglow of success :smoke: - Venus and Serena are indeed at another level to the rest of the the Tour.

That said, good health is what they need over the next 5 years.

With good health I give Venus at least 3 more slams over that period.

That damn Mama Smash is probably going to jack at least 6 including another French Open over that same period.

Haters have been trying to retire them and claim their era is over starting with the emergence of Kim and Justine and the with the Russian Revolution :tape: and I can't even get into this Serb stuff...

...other than to say when those Revolutionary Russians are gone (most are fading), Justine is gone and probably one of the Serbs are gone (Ana might hang on)...

...Richard Williams will still be dancing and talking shit and his daughters will continue to back it all up. :cool:

Now let's see if I can go score a goal today :armed:

terjw
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:37 PM
No - they are not the best 2 players in the world. To be the best - you need to demonstrate that you can both perform well at slams and that you can play consistently well in a number of tournaments over a whole season. Venus and Serena have each had success at two of the slams but have not yet demonstrated consistent sucess over a whole season.

To claim they are dominating is even more absurd. Minimum requirement to even consider two players were dominating should be both winning all the slams between them and #1 #2 in the rankings for at least a year.

ico4498
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:48 PM
dang Kiwi only non-fans call it "soccer" ... its football! (NFL be damned even if i'll watch if i can find a team, btw VY RULES!) :devil:

the top storyline in today's WTA remains; Sisters Williams, how will it all end?
Justine & the Belgian usurpers are powerful footnotes.
the Russian armada
Eastern Europe (so far, just a subplot of ^above)
racket tech
marketability
Larry's vision (or lack of same)
USA's inability to further their cause
the litany of power brokers handicapping the WTA's ability to be dynamic
strangely enough BJK's WTTall are worthy B themes. captivating on their own and compelling as part of the total tapestry.

such a rich storyline, marked absence of creative salespersons ...

Thanx4nothin
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:55 PM
No - they are not the best 2 players in the world. To be the best - you need to demonstrate that you can both perform well at slams and that you can play consistently well in a number of tournaments over a whole season. Venus and Serena have each had success at two of the slams but have not yet demonstrated consistent sucess over a whole season.

To claim they are dominating is even more absurd. Minimum requirement to even consider two players were dominating should be both winning all the slams between them and #1 #2 in the rankings for at least a year.

I agree with the most of it, but they have won when it has mattered, 2 of the three slams and serena the biggest tier one there is...so, rose coloured glasses for the williamses at the minute.

Matt01
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:23 PM
I specifically named them as exceptions. :yawn:

But they are no exceptions :rolleyes:

littlebin
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:27 PM
Unfortunately, they are not, there are not exceptions.

The same rule for all players.

I specifically named them as exceptions. :yawn:

kiwifan
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:04 AM
So :topic: that only ico4498 should read this:

dang Kiwi only non-fans call it "soccer" ... its football! (NFL be damned even if i'll watch if i can find a team, btw VY RULES!) :devil:


I played pretty well but I missed an open goal near the end of the match.

I call it football in every non-English speaking country I visit, but especially in England I love to not only call it soccer, I like to tell the locals that their kids will be calling to soccer too.

You wanna see a happy face deflate in 2 seconds. :hehehe: :devil:

I played high school soccer and college soccer. Attacking Center Midfield or Left Wing for the most part. Been kicking around the soccer ball since the 70s. :angel: I'm probably not 'a fan' because I prefer playing to watching, except for the World Cup (I saw 3 matches in Germany last year) :cool:

I'm American and when I was a child Pele and Beckenbauer (sp) were calling it soccer so if its good enough for them, its good enough for me.

We ain't wrong, we different and it takes "Diff'rent Strokes to Rule The World" :lol:

Rugby players all over the world tend to call it soccer too. :devil:

Aussies especially (the Socceroos), so don't just pick on us Pretty Americans :nerner:

____________
PS. thanks for the rep.

friendsita
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:16 AM
Why didn't anyone start a thread like this when Henin won the French or Sharapova the US Open? :confused:

Well, cause henin is boring and sharapova... I don't know?

spencercarlos
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:17 AM
Yes for sure. Serena has lost in the QF in the last two grand slams. Henin won 1 and made semis of the other, yet Serena is among the top two... :lol:
Or Venus top two by winning Wimbledon and her 3rd at the French Open and that ranks her ahead of Henin as well... geez...

friendsita
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:20 AM
lol, venus_rulez. Let me get this straight. Venus is the best player because she sucks all year and then wins Wimbledon out of the blue? Ah well...

Yeah! I think many players, even top10 want to sucks like Venus and win 1 tournament and a slam in a year... plzzz!!!

friendsita
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:25 AM
I'll go to the grave saying that Venus and Serena will always be the #1 and #2 players in the world...i dont care WHO is ranked #1 and 2. They only loose when they are injured or not playing well...(as they say all the time) now thats my opinion and if anybody dont like it thats just too damn bad!

:bigclap: LOVE IT :bigclap:

friendsita
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:34 AM
If Williams are the best now, why they & Richard want so desperately to get No.1 ranking again? Simply because they know they are not the best yet.

If they're so desperate to get No. 1 again they would play like 15 tournaments like other players.

spencercarlos
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:38 AM
If they're so desperate to get No. 1 again they would play like 15 tournaments like other players.
And? Since when its a crime to play a normal schedule? that is part of the consistency and the legacy of a player, being able to perform well consistently throught the time.. Well something that has been very dificult to maintain for Venus and Serena, and especially Venus.
That is what separates them from being in the top lists of the all time greats.

Pureracket
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:42 AM
Yes for sure. Serena has lost in the QF in the last two grand slams. Henin won 1 and made semis of the other, yet Serena is among the top two... :lol:
Or Venus top two by winning Wimbledon and her 3rd at the French Open and that ranks her ahead of Henin as well... geez...That Wimbledon Final yesterday must've broken your heart. Yeah, we're still deluded fans.:lol:

Donny
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:44 AM
And? Since when its a crime to play a normal schedule? that is part of the consistency and the legacy of a player, being able to perform well consistently throught the time.. Well something that has been very dificult to maintain for Venus and Serena, and especially Venus.
That is what separates them from being in the top lists of the all time greats.

Nah, it really isn't. Grand Slams are so highly valued when looking at a pro's career, they even often times end up overrated. Case in point: The Australian Open was a joke tournament until the eighties, yet quite a few women and men have their slam counts inflated by this. Yet, that's all anyone looks at in the long run.

AcesHigh
Jul 8th, 2007, 04:46 AM
ARe they the best players at the moment? Who knows.. the only consistent player is Justine.. so I'd have to give it to her. She is no. 1.

However, at their best, Venus and SErena are WAY ahead of the rest of the tour.

friendsita
Jul 8th, 2007, 05:24 AM
And? Since when its a crime to play a normal schedule? that is part of the consistency and the legacy of a player, being able to perform well consistently throught the time.. Well something that has been very dificult to maintain for Venus and Serena, and especially Venus.
That is what separates them from being in the top lists of the all time greats.

If you think that 6 grand slam titles and 6 finals or 8 grand slam titles and 2 finals in 10 years is not to perform well consistently through the time... so I don't now what the hell is that?

ico4498
Jul 8th, 2007, 05:28 AM
LAST OFF TOPIC POST YOU'LL NEED TO IGNORE; UNLESS YOU'RE KIWIFAN

no doubt a "soccer" player will miss opportunities to score more often than a football player, "soccer" hacks lack the proper perspective. :angel:

My football club resides in the the mountains surrounding Ocho Rios in Jamaica. average age 30 something, all amateur, pretty friendly:mad:, parish semi-finalist last 2 years. we mostly speak English or local dialects close enough to confuse the international ear. much like cockney, yah just gottah learn to listen :devil:. we hear English/American without difficulty.

we're gracious hosts so your "soccer jokes" would not only entertain us, but inspire us to try harder. we are, after all, only FOOTBALL players seeking respek. I play midfield (we call it link in JA) ... :)

best of luck in your "soccer" experience. soo sad that the real game escapes yah ...:sad:

my very best regards,

its all trash talk, don't take it too seriously ... we have real empathy for those lacking vision.:lol: