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View Full Version : Marion Bartoli in the final just indicates the poor level of WTA tennis these days...


gopher
Jul 7th, 2007, 09:39 AM
No this is not an offense to Justine. She has been playing for weeks now --and years before that !--
and this was just a match too many.

But to see such a poorly equipped sportswoman go to the final of Wimbledon is a disgrace.

Sorry to say but the current generation of young tennisplayers is a disaster. No wonder that Williams, Henin and Mauresmo as elder players are still dominating the rest of the field easily.

I feel sorry for the spectators at Central Court today.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 7th, 2007, 09:43 AM
Didnt somebody say the SAME THING about Serena winning the Australian open? I dont think WTA tennis will ever be golden like it was 5 or 6 years ago when we had Seles, Capriati, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Henin, The Williamses, Pierce, Davenport and Hingis ALLL playing good competitive tennis with minor injuries and consistently. Those, to me, were the GOLDEN YEARS of womens tennis :)

gopher
Jul 7th, 2007, 09:44 AM
yes of course and I confirm what I said. It is a fact.

Josh.
Jul 7th, 2007, 09:44 AM
why? bartoli deserves to be there.

she out played justine today :shrug:

Monica_Rules
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:27 AM
No it just shows that in the next 5 years or so one or 2 people wont dominate.

Tenis Srbija
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:28 AM
So true... Womens tennis is on low shelves these days :sad: I so miss the Grand Slams from 2003. :( Those were the days.
But nevertheless congrats Marion ;)

mankind
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:30 AM
Maybe, but there's no doubt that she's a fine player.

!<blocparty>!
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:32 AM
Of course it does. An overweight candy-loving Cake in the Wimbledon final doesn't exactly do wonders for the credibility of women's tennis.

Tennisaddict
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:39 AM
I think this shows that the depth of women´s tennis has increased. Plus the comments about Marion being overweight are really getting tired. She has a plump overweight appearance but that doesn´t mean that she is not fit enough to compete at this level. She obviously is. You cannot beat Jankovic who is one of the fittest players on tour and Henin when you are overweight. She was moving very well from side to side yesterday. I would rather watch her three set battles than Jankovic being easily trashed by Henin again in the semis.

Wayn77
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:39 AM
Bartoli is an excellent player: has taken out the world No. 1 and No. 3 - deserves a crack at the title. Williams is playing better than when she last won the title, her performances this week have been awesome.

The other main contenders Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic are adding much needed variety to their games and improving fast.

Viktymise
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:42 AM
She was lucky with the rain :shrug: i mean she deserved to win against Justine but Jankovic would have put her away if it wasn't for the rain, same with Krajicek

The Daviator
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:44 AM
Marion's performance was one of the most high quality semi wins in recent years on the WTA, 86% first serve %, 1 double fault, more winners than UEs, I guess because she's not a big 'star' that makes her win awful :rolleyes: Had one of the marquee players played like that to win, you'd all be raving about them...

Kim's_fan_4ever
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:44 AM
No this is not an offense to Justine. She has been playing for

And it is an offense to Marion.
She is in the final because she deserves to be there. She beat #1 and #3 in the world so this means a lot.
Get over it :rolleyes:

Piotr'ek
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:47 AM
Well so if Jankovic and Sharapova get into the final, would it mean WTA is in great condition?

Stupid, just stupid.

Shvedbarilescu
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:47 AM
I think this shows that the depth of women´s tennis has increased. Plus the comments about Marion being overweight are really getting tired. She has a plump overweight appearance but that doesn´t mean that she is not fit enough to compete at this level. She obviously is. You cannot beat Jankovic who is one of the fittest players on tour and Henin when you are overweight. She was moving very well from side to side yesterday. I would rather watch her three set battles than Jankovic being easily trashed by Henin again in the semis.

Only once has Jankovic been easily trashed by Henin. The other five times they played each other were all highly entertaining 3 set thrillers. But other than that, yeah I agree the depth of women's tennis is increasing and also that, while Bartoli is not as fit as she could be, she is clearly fit enough to play some very fine tennis by beating two very tough players in Henin and Jankovic.

The Daviator
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:48 AM
Well so if Jankovic and Sharapova get into the final, would it mean WTA is in great condition?

Stupid, just stupid.

:lol: :yeah:

Calypso
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:49 AM
She played well to get to the finals.

Because she looks out of shape doesn't mean she shouldn't beat fitter players. She just showed that she's got a lot of talent.
Imagine if she could move better!

As far as i can recall, the WTA always had certain players that were criticized for being overweight: Lindsay Davenport before she trimmed her weight, and 1996 Australian Open champion Monica Seles were also mocked. Mariaan de Swardt almost beat Steffi at Wimbledon 1999.

I'm sure there are many other 'thick' girls that have had an impact on the WTA throughout its history.

Bartoli is not the first and won't be the last.

Wayn77
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:49 AM
She was lucky with the rain :shrug:

Maybe: but hey the constant rain delays affects both players. Jankovic is supposed to be No. 3 and cope with this kind of pressure - she just didn't have the weapons on grass to get past a base-line brick wall like Bartoli. Justine, I think struggled with the wind yesterday: as she has done many times in the past. That worked in Bartoli's favour ...

Sefo
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:52 AM
Justine, I think struggled with the wind yesterday: as she has done many times in the past. That worked in Bartoli's favour ...

Bartoli played in the same wind. Her serving was flutterd by the wind too.

Viktymise
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:52 AM
Maybe: but hey the constant rain delays affects both players. Jankovic is supposed to be No. 3 and cope with this kind of pressure - she just didn't have the weapons on grass to get past a base-line brick wall like Bartoli. Justine, I think struggled with the wind yesterday: as she has done many times in the past. That worked in Bartoli's favour ...

During parts of the Jankovic - Bartoli match, she looked as though she was about to collapse on court due to all the long rallies, then suddenly the rain came, sveral times when it looked as though she was running out of steam, she then comes back revitalized and has composed herself again, it was the same against Krajicek

tennisfan1972
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:54 AM
How many winners and unforced errors did the rain have in the match? just curious <smile>

Kunal
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:56 AM
stupid post imo...

doesnt show the poor level of wta....shows how much talent there is

Thanx4nothin
Jul 7th, 2007, 10:57 AM
It reflects the depth of the womens game that we have had 6 different finalists.

mauresmofan
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:01 AM
I thought when I was watching the 3rd set it was similar to Graf vs Seles the way Bartoli was using the entire court and Justine trying to run everything down. Bartoli was inspired and I really thought what a fantastic inspirational uplifting performance. Wimbledon is normally so predictable - the big 4 are always in the last 4. Serena Justine Amelie and Sharapova - Venus too it's always between those 5 for the last 4 spots. Things have changed this year and it's a good thing. unpredictable and exciting.

roelc
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:07 AM
Marion's performance was one of the most high quality semi wins in recent years on the WTA, 86% first serve %, 1 double fault, more winners than UEs, I guess because she's not a big 'star' that makes her win awful :rolleyes: Had one of the marquee players played like that to win, you'd all be raving about them...

statistics say it all no :tape:
it's not because someone has a high service %, that it is effictive!
sure venus will have a lower percentage, but which one would you want to have?
to call this a high quality semi win :help:
ok, she played great, but justine didn't!

I don't see marion as a top player (sorry marion). credits to her that she reaches the final, but normally this may not happen. she is too vulnerable in some cases. some people say that it was bad for women's tennis that dementieva reached 2 GS-finals because of her very poor serve. I think this one is a much bigger shock

The Daviator
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:11 AM
statistics say it all no :tape:
it's not because someone has a high service %, that it is effictive!
sure venus will have a lower percentage, but which one would you want to have?
to call this a high quality semi win :help:
ok, she played great, but justine didn't!

I don't see marion as a top player (sorry marion). credits to her that she reaches the final, but normally this may not happen. she is too vulnerable in some cases. some people say that it was bad for women's tennis that dementieva reached 2 GS-finals because of her very poor serve. I think this one is a much bigger shock

Justine hit 5 more unforced errors than Marion, and she lost 6-1 in the 3rd, so there goes that theory :wavey:

Also, why are you talking about Venus and her serve? :confused: I'm saying Marion played brilliantly to get to the final, and anyone watching that match would have been impressed by her...

Invisible Fan
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:12 AM
If Bartoli or someone like her makes a GS final it shows lack of quality in the WTA.

If a Thomas Johannson/Puerta/Gonzo type makes/wins a GS final it shows the great depth of the ATP.

I think that's about the sum of it usually right?

But Marion is alot better than most of you are making out here anyway.

Libra78
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:12 AM
surely some great players have retired, more or less, at the same time: Davenport, Capriati, Kim (even if she is young); Ivanovic, Jankovic and someone else are quite distant from them, at the moment. Considering that Williams sisters will not compete for many years again (I think so, 3-4 years)situation is a little poor, but Bartoli deserve the final at the championship, she defeated the n.1, no?

moby
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:15 AM
It indicates nothing of the sort.

It just shows that the top players really have to bring it, and not expect the lower ranked players to keel over. It's been evident for years now that the top players cannot play significantly below their best and still expect to crush their opposition. Only Serena can get away with playing at 10%. :p

Tennisaddict
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:16 AM
Only once has Jankovic been easily trashed by Henin. The other five times they played each other were all highly entertaining 3 set thrillers. But other than that, yeah I agree the depth of women's tennis is increasing and also that, while Bartoli is not as fit as she could be, she is clearly fit enough to play some very fine tennis by beating two very tough players in Henin and Jankovic.

I know but the one time Justine trashed Jankovic was in a slam and I think there would be a repeat because they were destined to meet in the semis of this slam as well. Jankovic still isnīt mentally strong enough in the latter stages of a slam. She isnīt as nervous in other tournaments thatīs why she competes way better against Justine IMO.

Matt01
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:18 AM
I dont think WTA tennis will ever be golden like it was 5 or 6 years ago when we had Seles, Capriati, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Henin, The Williamses, Pierce, Davenport and Hingis ALLL playing good competitive tennis with minor injuries and consistently.

5 years ago Hingis was in a slump/injured, Pierce was injured, Davenport was injured, Momo was still was a mental headcase, and Seles was almost already ove the hill :p


It reflects the depth of the womens game that we have had 6 different finalists.

I agree. I think that there is much more depth in the womans game now than we had a few years ago.

-GenEz.Williams
Jul 7th, 2007, 11:28 AM
the better player won and its Bartoli...thats it..she played well..!

davidmario
Jul 7th, 2007, 12:23 PM
No, I think it just shows that women's tennis has improved. Look: A hingis can't win the first 4 rounds 6-0 6-1 like it was 6 years ago. A Marion Bartoli can beat the No.1 and the No.3 in the world. A Venus Williams disgraces several Top5/10 players within 3 days but also lower ranked girls almost beat Venus the rounds before.
It just shows that women's tennis has improved a lot: Anyone can beat anyone out there these days. It has become unpredictable these days and that's why I love it:hearts:

goldenlox
Jul 7th, 2007, 01:49 PM
Marion is playing this final at a high level. She can play with the top 10.

cartmancop
Jul 7th, 2007, 01:51 PM
Yeh she has great groundies, I'd never seen her play much before. Just needs to beef up the serve a bit plus add a touch more footspeed and she could be a serious force..

Selah
Jul 7th, 2007, 01:55 PM
I disagree. I know its fun to take the piss out of her on the boards but to me she really isn't all that overweight and she seems pretty fit. She is playing some good tennis. I have a feeling she might win the whole shabang.

pancake
Jul 7th, 2007, 02:01 PM
She's playing really well. And good to see the up-and-comers doing well and entering Grand Slam final.
Anyway, didn't people say that WTA lacks depth a few years ago because there were always only few players could be capable of winning GS? And now when we see new faces in the final, only because Bartoli has never been well-known before, people then say that WTA is of poor level? Why are such things always said about WTA?

pengluv
Jul 7th, 2007, 02:07 PM
just admit bartolis good damn once a low seeded girl makes it to the final all yall are bitchin jus get mad cuz yalls players wasnt good enough to step up and lost to such a horrible tennis player

Tim_Danielafan6
Jul 7th, 2007, 02:18 PM
Of course it does. An overweight candy-loving Cake in the Wimbledon final doesn't exactly do wonders for the credibility of women's tennis.

i like u, ur fkn funny, ...im happy for bartoli but she is a cute litte fat shit its cute

HippityHop
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:47 PM
I think this shows that the depth of womenīs tennis has increased. Plus the comments about Marion being overweight are really getting tired. She has a plump overweight appearance but that doesnīt mean that she is not fit enough to compete at this level. She obviously is. You cannot beat Jankovic who is one of the fittest players on tour and Henin when you are overweight. She was moving very well from side to side yesterday. I would rather watch her three set battles than Jankovic being easily trashed by Henin again in the semis.


This is true. People need to learn that just because someone is roly-poly doesn't mean that they are not fit. Remember how everybody thought that Serena was not fit in Australia? Some women will never be svelte but as Serena and Bartoli have shown, they can bring the pain to some of the little gals. :bounce:

Now if somebody who is in residence at the Brookhaven Obesity Clinic were to come in and start winning matches, then we'd have a problem. :tape:

HippityHop
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:49 PM
No, I think it just shows that women's tennis has improved. Look: A hingis can't win the first 4 rounds 6-0 6-1 like it was 6 years ago. A Marion Bartoli can beat the No.1 and the No.3 in the world. A Venus Williams disgraces several Top5/10 players within 3 days but also lower ranked girls almost beat Venus the rounds before.
It just shows that women's tennis has improved a lot: Anyone can beat anyone out there these days. It has become unpredictable these days and that's why I love it:hearts:

True. Notice that when the top men are knocked of by lower ranked players, it's due to depth. :lol: :lol:

thomas.chung
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:59 PM
Of course it does. An overweight candy-loving Cake in the Wimbledon final doesn't exactly do wonders for the credibility of women's tennis.

Neither will Vaidisova with her attitude, when she gets to Marion status (which is a GS final) we will have another talk.

.
.
.

I think we are currently in a phase of transition, yes players like Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Peer, Jankovic and now Bartoli are coming up. But they are still in the process of gaining experiences in these finals. If this week is a good indicator of the things to come, I think the above 5 names (+ 2 williams sisters), Justine Henin, Amelie Mauresmo, Svetlanda Kuznetsova and Hingis will be in the top in the next year or so.

Poova
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:09 PM
If Bartoli or someone like her makes a GS final it shows lack of quality in the WTA.

If a Thomas Johannson/Puerta/Gonzo type makes/wins a GS final it shows the great depth of the ATP.

I think that's about the sum of it usually right?

But Marion is alot better than most of you are making out here anyway.
So so true. The ATP was a joke back in 2001/2002 yet people never once mentioned that it was down to the lack of quality players in the ATP, which in my opinion it was.

hablo
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Another pethatic thread.
When it's a lower seed who makes the final in the men's side, people comment on what great depth there is on that tour. But when it's the women, it's the opposite. Pffft.

starin
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:13 PM
can't have it both ways people. In 2006 the women's field was too deep for the WS to ever be able to waltz in and win slams or ever contend for the top again.

And now WS have won 2 slams this year the women's field is weak.

:help: that's pathetic people.

HippityHop
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:22 PM
can't have it both ways people. In 2006 the women's field was too deep for the WS to ever be able to waltz in and win slams or ever contend for the top again.

And now WS have won 2 slams this year the women's field is weak.

:help: that's pathetic people.

:worship:

Morrissey
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:22 PM
I think Marion's win shows the DEPTH in women's tennis. Everyone thought Justine would blast to the title. Well Justine choked that semifinal match and Marion BELIEVED she could beat her and SHE DID. Give Marion Bartoli credit she WON the match Justine BLEW IT. If anything I think this shows the DEPTH in Women's tennis.

StarDuvallGrant
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:25 PM
Another pethatic thread.
When it's a lower seed who makes the final in the men's side, people comment on what great depth there is on that tour. But when it's the women, it's the opposite. Pffft.

So true. And lets be real here. Every player has to start somewhere and if this is Bartoli's start or another players, it has to be celebrated. Women's tennis doesn't win. When you have 2 or 3 players dominating, there is no depth. When a surprise player comes through, there too is no depth and women's tennis is weak. The determining factor shouldn't be who you want to win, but the quality and the effect those players have on the whole of the game. And so far it's all been great in my opinion.

starin
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:30 PM
I think Marion's win shows the DEPTH in women's tennis. Everyone thought Justine would blast to the title. Well Justine choked that semifinal match and Marion BELIEVED she could beat her and SHE DID. Give Marion Bartoli credit she WON the match Justine BLEW IT. If anything I think this shows the DEPTH in Women's tennis.

exacto. Marion reaching the finals shows how much more depth there is
outside the top 10.

Larrybidd
Jul 8th, 2007, 05:04 PM
With the Williams sisters healthy, the WTA has NEVER been as competitive and deep as it is now. Bartoli didn't beat the #1 player in the wold playing lousy tennis. Don't dismiss her because of how she looks or her resume: Judge her on her level of play. It was excellent!

After crying for years about the lack of depth in the WTA, you finally have it demonstrated, and people complain.

aussie_fan
Jul 8th, 2007, 06:00 PM
marion played really well,s he deserves her spot there, it doesn't indicate poor quality

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2007, 06:37 PM
If I remember correctly the current top players had to beat the best at the time when they were coming up the ranks so really and truly......Serena, Venus, Hingis, Henin, MoMo, MaSha, Seles....basically everyone on the WTA all suck and are a shame and disgrace to the WTA cause they were able to beat the people at the top before them in order to get to the top....hmmm

Monaco 84
Jul 8th, 2007, 06:56 PM
Agree. WTAtour is (and always was) a joke :devil:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 8th, 2007, 07:08 PM
doesnt show the poor level of wta....shows how much talent there is

:yeah:

marcianito
Jul 8th, 2007, 07:10 PM
On the other hand I think this proves how competetive women tennis has become, now you wont see one or two players dominating the tour like before. We have the Williams, Hennin, Mauresmo, Sharapova, The Russians, The Serbians, etc etc. It has become so umpredictable. Since 2004 every GS had a different Champion. not like the ATP that is so predictable these days with the same Federer vs Nadal Finals, so boring!!

:)

mckyle.
Jul 8th, 2007, 07:25 PM
I'm sure people said the same thing when world #66 Venus Williams made the US Open final in 1997. Now look at how much she has accomplished in the 10 years since. This was Marion's breakthrough. I'm sure she'll do many big things in the future.

tennislover
Jul 8th, 2007, 07:29 PM
No this is not an offense to Justine. She has been playing for weeks now --and years before that !--
and this was just a match too many.

But to see such a poorly equipped sportswoman go to the final of Wimbledon is a disgrace.

Sorry to say but the current generation of young tennisplayers is a disaster. No wonder that Williams, Henin and Mauresmo as elder players are still dominating the rest of the field easily.

I feel sorry for the spectators at Central Court today.

I totally agree. Considering the current top ten players I feel sick.
the same story in the ATP top ten: Davidenko, Diokovic, Robredo, Gonzales have replaced Becker, Ivanisevic, Rafter, Edberg, Agassi

partbrit
Jul 8th, 2007, 07:42 PM
I haven't seen women's tennis look so good in a long time. Some of the Wimbledon matches were outstanding, and more than one woman raised her game level to play great tennis. Bartoli's defeats of both Jankovic and Henin were thrilling displays of amazing tennis.

sharapovarulz1
Jul 8th, 2007, 07:43 PM
exacto. Marion reaching the finals shows how much more depth there is
outside the top 10.

Exactly :D

Julian
Jul 8th, 2007, 08:29 PM
dont blame Marion

blame the lackluster finals!

and to someone who said that it was bad when Dementieva reached 2 GS finals..she showed that it takes more then just a good serve to get into a GS final, she showed heart, athelticism, and POUNDING groundstrokes. but DID show that in order to WIN a GS these days a good serve would make things only so much easier lol. these days..you need the entire package to win a GS..and to make my point. I think the WTA is at an excellent level.

And to get back to Elena in 2004 it was just bad luck for her that she not only played poorly in both finals, but also that she played against 2 Russians.