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View Full Version : are there any coaches more underrated than Richard & Oracene?


moon
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:04 AM
they've coached not one but 2 players to multiple slams.
Does anyone ever give them credit?
Say what you want about Richard, but he and his ex-wife have the best coaching record in tennis today.

eck
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:19 AM
Well, now we have to include Bartoli's father.

Everyone thought that making your daughter fat was the dumbest idea in the world, but obviously he saw something that most didn't.

sweetpeas
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:29 AM
they've coached not one but 2 players to multiple slams.
Does anyone ever give them credit?
Say what you want about Richard, but he and his ex-wife have the best coaching record in tennis todady


Right.How many slams? Total?

eck
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:33 AM
Commentators once said Richard was called a lunatic because he had no experience, he made bold predictions, and obviously after wins in GS, no one had reason to doubt him any more.

pwayne
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:45 AM
No, I do not think so after winning 3 AO,1 RG,5 Wimby, 4 US.

kiwifan
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:48 AM
Even this time last year the experts were saying...

..."What the Williams Sisters need in order to get back to their winning ways is...

...real coaches." :haha:

Question?

Which Real Coach has produced more slam wins in the last decade than Williams/Price Inc.?

tenn_ace
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:49 AM
Oracene :worship:

kiwifan
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:49 AM
and I know y'all have noticed in my never changing sig exactly how I feel about Venus and Serena's Coaching...

delicatecutter
Jul 7th, 2007, 03:51 AM
Umm I'm not about to give anyone credit why may have told Serena that her BH slice was going to win her many matches. And before anyone says her thumb was hurt, she was doing the same thing at RG.

Pureracket
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:27 AM
Umm I'm not about to give anyone credit why may have told Serena that her BH slice was going to win her many matches. And before anyone says her thumb was hurt, she was doing the same thing at RG.So the wrap on her thumb in her quarterfinal meant nothing to you, then?

GrandSlam05
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:30 AM
You gotta consider the athletes he was dealing with though. If he had started out with a waif-like Justine Henin as a daughter, do you think he would have been able to give her the tennis skills to get her 6 majors? I think not.
I credit Richard for what he has done for his daughters. If not for him, who knows where they would be doing right now in the world? But honestly, if they had been born into a rich family and had top coaches right from the start, I think they actually would've started winning majors even earlier than they did (which is a scary thought LOL).

iWill
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:36 AM
I think the reason Richard and Oracene aren't given AS much credit is because they got two players with sooooooo much natural athletic ability that they would've been great at any sport they were taught to play not that its a good excuse but it could be it

also Vee and Reena did spend alot of time at a tennis academy in their teens so that is where there game went from power to precision in many areas not completely the reason but another factor

and they know they won't ever coach any other players so theirs no point in talking about them until their two players have retired then they can talk about all they achieved

thomas.chung
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:39 AM
Commentators once said Richard was called a lunatic because he had no experience, he made bold predictions, and obviously after wins in GS, no one had reason to doubt him any more.

There is always a thin line between lunacy and brilliancy. Thank God Richard is on the brilliancy side.

GrandSlam05
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:39 AM
I think the reason Richard and Oracene aren't given AS much credit is because they got two players with sooooooo much natural athletic ability that they would've been great at any sport they were taught to play not that its a good excuse but it could be it

also Vee and Reena did spend alot of time at a tennis academy in their teens so that is where there game went from power to precision in many areas not completely the reason but another factor

and they know they won't ever coach any other players so theirs no point in talking about them until their two players have retired then they can talk about all they achieved
Exactly what I was trying to say. Richard did a good job with what he had, but he had ALOT to work with. It's not like we gave him a chubby slow kid like Davenport and said, "Richard, make us a champion." Venus and Serena had so much athletic potential they already were ahead of the pack in that department.

kiwifan
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:16 AM
You gotta consider the athletes he was dealing with though. If he had started out with a waif-like Justine Henin as a daughter, do you think he would have been able to give her the tennis skills to get her 6 majors? I think not.
I credit Richard for what he has done for his daughters. If not for him, who knows where they would be doing right now in the world? But honestly, if they had been born into a rich family and had top coaches right from the start, I think they actually would've started winning majors even earlier than they did (which is a scary thought LOL).

can you back this empty speculation up with anything at all.

are Venus and Serena the only athletes on the planet? ;)

why aren't the coaches that the Williams Sisters are neglecting not producing American Super Champions right now? :p

What the heck has the USTA produced for American Pro Tennis since Serena won her first US Open...

...surely if these other coaches are so good they'd be able to turn out plenty of players that would put Richard Williams "in his place"

I thank Richard that he kept his daughters away from the tennis establishment, they might have turned into shoplifting crackheads if the USTA was in charge.

GrandSlam05
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:24 AM
can you back this empty speculation up with anything at all.

are Venus and Serena the only athletes on the planet? ;)

why aren't the coaches that the Williams Sisters are neglecting not producing American Super Champions right now? :p

What the heck has the USTA produced for American Pro Tennis since Serena won her first US Open...

...surely if these other coaches are so good they'd be able to turn out plenty of players that would put Richard Williams "in his place"

I thank Richard that he kept his daughters away from the tennis establishment, they might have turned into shoplifting crackheads if the USTA was in charge.
Dude, you don't get what I am saying. Venus and Serena are the best natural athletes in women's tennis, BY FAR. So even if a player like Davenport has all the great coaches in the world, she can't make up for the fact that she is way behind in the athletic department. The best asset that Serena and Venus have is their genes, not their coach.
Yes there are women out there with as much athletic talent as Venus or Serena, but either they didn't have the opportunity or drive to pursue tennis, or they picked another sport. Given time, there will be women tennis players as athletic as Venus and Serena, but it will take time to produce.

Coffee&TV
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:27 AM
I like Oracene. :)

IceSkaTennisFan
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:28 AM
Even this time last year the experts were saying...

..."What the Williams Sisters need in order to get back to their winning ways is...

...real coaches." :haha:

Question?

Which Real Coach has produced more slam wins in the last decade than Williams/Price Inc.?
I actually heard a few comments about that this year even after Serena won the Australian Open. Mary Carillo is the one I recall best. She was commenting on how much more dominant and elevated their games could be if they took on another coach, not necessarily eliminating the parents from coaching them. I think it could be true, but as always it would depend on what the willams sisters wanted to do. Regardless of the coach/trainer/etc, if they wouldn't own up to the schedule then no other source would be able to make things better.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:28 AM
But honestly, if they had been born into a rich family and had top coaches right from the start, I think they actually would've started winning majors even earlier than they did (which is a scary thought LOL).

I doubt that. You cannot overlook WHERE they're from as a component of what they've managed to achieve. It's part of who they are! In addition, "traditional" coaches would have had them out there playing a bunch a stupid, pushing juniors in which winning simply meant waiting for your opponent to make errors instead of going for your shots. Having the girls NOT play extensive juniors was BRILLIANT.

A lot of the talk from the so called experts about the sister's getting new coaches is simply born out of disdain for Richard and his personality more than his coaching skills. Otherwise, you'd here these same expert saying the same thing about the myriad of other LESS SUCCESSFUL players coached by their parents needing to find other coaches. Maybe Bartoli should chuck her Father as coach- or Shapo or Vaidisova...etc, etc..

metamorpha
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:32 AM
I thank Richard that he kept his daughters away from the tennis establishment, they might have turned into shoplifting crackheads if the USTA was in charge.

Who are they you referring to? :lol:

Donatello
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:34 AM
Umm I'm not about to give anyone credit why may have told Serena that her BH slice was going to win her many matches. And before anyone says her thumb was hurt, she was doing the same thing at RG.

She announced after Miami she was going to try different things for the summer tournaments, we have seen the slices which are new to her game, she can do it pretty well, but isn't used to using it very much, everyone who has played tennis for a while knows that it is hard to incorporate new skills which require a firm technical basis, most people have to start young to get basic patterns in to their game. Like volleying: almost impossible to learn (to have the timing to do it well) later on in your career.

The funny (scary) thing is: her slice has improved significantly in the short time between the Henin match at RG and the one at Wimby.

Her slice may look awkward now, but it is due to the problem of using it at the wrong times, imagine after some time, we are all used to it, she herself the most and then she can use it as a weapon !

GrandSlam05
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:35 AM
I doubt that. You cannot overlook WHERE they're from as a component of what they've managed to achieve. It's part of who they are! In addition, "traditional" coaches would have had them out there playing a bunch a stupid, pushing juniors in which winning simply meant waiting for your opponent to make errors instead of going for your shots. Having the girls NOT play extensive juniors was BRILLIANT.

A lot of the talk from the so called experts about the sister's getting new coaches is simply born out of disdain for Richard and his personality more than his coaching skills. Otherwise, you'd here these same expert saying the same thing about the myriad of other LESS SUCCESSFUL players coached by their parents needing to find other coaches. Maybe Bartoli should chuck her Father as coach- or Shapo or Vaidisova...etc, etc..
ITA with that. I always thought that if Lindsay hadn't been born with a silver spoon in her mouth, maybe she would've been more of a fighter out there.
I mean honestly the toughest women on tour right now are the ones who had it the toughest growing up. Coincidence?

iWill
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:38 AM
can you back this empty speculation up with anything at all.

are Venus and Serena the only athletes on the planet? ;)

why aren't the coaches that the Williams Sisters are neglecting not producing American Super Champions right now? :p

What the heck has the USTA produced for American Pro Tennis since Serena won her first US Open...

...surely if these other coaches are so good they'd be able to turn out plenty of players that would put Richard Williams "in his place"

I thank Richard that he kept his daughters away from the tennis establishment, they might have turned into shoplifting crackheads if the USTA was in charge.

Mostly because great athletes aren't usually told to play tennis they play basketball or football or become track stars or even volleyball tennis is still considered a wealthy person's recreation in america

i'm a perfect example of that i've always been tall and when I was young it was obvious I had natural athletic ability but no one put a tennis racket in my hand they said here's a basketball no go make us proud its just how things are in the US and now with girls being able to have success in basketball and soccer and softball and things like that tennis is the farthest thing from alot of their minds

we won't start seeing more natural american athletes play tennis until more people wise up to the fact that its a great sport for them to play and be successful at and we frankly arent there just yet

kiwifan
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:40 AM
I doubt that. You cannot overlook WHERE they're from as a component of what they've managed to achieve. It's part of who they are! In addition, "traditional" coaches would have had them out there playing a bunch a stupid, pushing juniors in which winning simply meant waiting for your opponent to make errors instead of going for your shots. Having the girls NOT play extensive juniors was BRILLIANT.:worship:

:fiery: pushers drove me out of tennis (I'd been playing since I was 4 and captain of my high school tennis team) and into the loving arms of team sports rugby and soccer (most of my college tennis team were moonballers, life is too short).

People fail to grasp that creating a great tennis player isn't just grips and tactics (there's an endless collection of people who can teach that), most likely the worst thing that could have happened would be letting anyone else mess around with Venus and Serena's games at the developing stages.

The hunger to win doesn't come from a tennis academy mostly tennis robots, like my college teammates, come from tennis academies and expert coaching. :devil:

kiwifan
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:54 AM
Mostly because great athletes aren't usually told to play tennis they play basketball or football or become track stars or even volleyball tennis is still considered a wealthy person's recreation in america

i'm a perfect example of that i've always been tall and when I was young it was obvious I had natural athletic ability but no one put a tennis racket in my hand they said here's a basketball no go make us proud its just how things are in the US and now with girls being able to have success in basketball and soccer and softball and things like that tennis is the farthest thing from alot of their minds

we won't start seeing more natural american athletes play tennis until more people wise up to the fact that its a great sport for them to play and be successful at and we frankly arent there just yet

I agree 100%. When I was living in Atlanta, GA there were so many great athletes playing tennis but they were older guys post college careers - just playing for fun.

I just don't see the USTA's commitment to the future of women's tennis beyond endless lip service. The only way we were going to get a Venus and a Serena was the way we got Venus and Serena...

...and Pierce, J Cap, Monica Seles and Agassi...

...crazy parents with no damn life of their own. :lol:

Williams and Price only had 5 daughters to work with, the USTA has the entire rest of the country to work with so let's see some results. :devil:

Until the USTA produces the same results as Williams and Price...

...there's no basis for silly statements that they would have been better with "real coaches".

kiwifan
Jul 7th, 2007, 05:56 AM
Who are they you referring to? :lol:

err, nobody. :angel:

:bolt:

V's a star
Jul 7th, 2007, 07:13 AM
I think Oreacene is. I just thought about this yesterday that no one ever goes to her 4 interviews n shit and its sad

DimaDinosaur
Jul 7th, 2007, 08:20 AM
I wish richard was my coach. I'll eat all the bananas he want me to HOLLA

moon
Jul 7th, 2007, 04:40 PM
14 Slams (and counting ;)), not to mention dubs, and Olympic Gold Medals.
:D