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View Full Version : weapons checklist: Wimbledon FINALS!


tennisjunky
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:26 PM
how the players match up against each other on grass, who’s got the weapons to hurt who?

Venus vs. Bartoli

first serve
second serve
return of serve
forehand
backhand
net play (volleys, approach shots)
movement
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)

sfselesfan
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:28 PM
Ignore my other thread.


first serve = Venus
second serve = Bartoli
return of serve = Bartoli (slightly)
forehand = Bartoli
backhand = Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) = Bartoli (she's great up there)
movement = Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = Venus

SF

tennisjunky
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:32 PM
first serve = Venus
second serve = Bartoli
return of serve = Bartoli
forehand = Bartoli
backhand = Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) = Venus
movement = Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = Venus

Andrew Laeddis
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:35 PM
first serve-venus
second serve-bartoli
return of serve-even
forehand-even
backhand-venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)-venus
movement-venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)-venus

Monirena Wiles
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:38 PM
Ignore my other thread.


first serve = Venus
second serve = Bartoli
return of serve = Bartoli (slightly)
forehand = Bartoli
backhand = Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) = Bartoli (she's great up there)
movement = Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = Venus

SF

Yep, I agree.

Ryu
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:39 PM
I really don't think that Bartoli is better at net than Venus.

Pengwin
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:41 PM
first serve - Venus
second serve - Venus
return of serve - Venus
forehand - Venus
backhand - Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) - Venus
movement - Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) - Venus

sfselesfan
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:41 PM
I think people are underestimating Bartoli's net play.

vs. Henin: 16 of 25 = 64 %
vs. Michaella: 8 of 9 = 89 %
vs. Jankovic: 18 of 23 = 78 %
vs. Peer: 7 of 10 = 70 %

Venus' net play in her best match, vs. Sharapova was 45%. It was better in her last two matches (up really high vs. Ivanovic), but I still think it's sub-par for her. Venus has not relied on her net play this year.

I agree Venus is fantastic at net, but Bartoli is not mincemeat there either.

SF

Bruno71
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:41 PM
first serve = Venus
second serve = Venus
return of serve = Venus
forehand = Venus
backhand = Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) = Venus
movement = Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = Venus?

The way things have gone for Marion, I'm not sure that intangibles don't go her way...she's on fire.

Uranium
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:51 PM
ALL VENUS, return of serve,volleys, and second serve venus barely leading in my opinion. SECOND serve to Venus because she has cut double faults by ALOT.

Anna F'd Enrique
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:54 PM
first serve VENUS
second serve BARTOLI
return of serve VENUS/BARTOLI close
forehand BARTOLI
backhand VENUS
net play (volleys, approach shots) VENUS
movement VENUS
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) VENUS

starin
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:55 PM
bartoli returned serve really well and her balls are really flat for the most part and not sitting up.
did anyone notice how eerily similar Bartolis' court positioning was to Venus? exact same place that Venus stands to return serves.

GracefulVenus
Jul 6th, 2007, 06:56 PM
first serve-venus
second serve-bartoli
return of serve-even
forehand-even
backhand-venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)-venus
movement-venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)-venus

Agreed!

Thanx4nothin
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:01 PM
first serve - Venus
second serve - Venus
return of serve - Venus
forehand - Venus
backhand - Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) - Venus
movement - Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) - Venus

I actually agree.

Keaka
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Venus vs. Bartoli

first serve = Venus
second serve = Bartoli
return of serve = Bartoli
forehand = Bartoli
backhand = Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) = Venus
movement = Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = Venus

tennisjunky
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:28 PM
first serve - Venus
second serve - Venus
return of serve - Venus
forehand - Venus
backhand - Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) - Venus
movement - Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) - Venus

dont get too ahead of yourself and underestimate bartoli like the justine fans did. sure bartoli has the weapons to challenge venus, possibly beat her. venus has lost to worse opponents at majors.

hablo
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:30 PM
I have to say Bartoli's return of serve is incredible.
She's just as agressive as Venus. She literally steps into the court (more so on second serves).
I can't believe she was doing that to JH. :haha::eek:

BartoliBabes
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:39 PM
first serve - Venus
second serve - Mar
return of serve - Mar
forehand - Mar
backhand - Tie
net play (volleys, approach shots) - Tie
movement - Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) - Venus

nozaroc
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:58 PM
What little of Bartoli I've seen, she has a weird style on her serve. She doesn't keep her wrist straight, or flexed a little backwards but hyperflexes it, like she's trying to touch the inside of her forearm. At least that's how she starts out. Anyone know what's up with that?

Callystarr
Jul 6th, 2007, 08:18 PM
I think people are underestimating Bartoli's net play.

vs. Henin: 16 of 25 = 64 %
vs. Michaella: 8 of 9 = 89 %
vs. Jankovic: 18 of 23 = 78 %
vs. Peer: 7 of 10 = 70 %

Venus' net play in her best match, vs. Sharapova was 45%. It was better in her last two matches (up really high vs. Ivanovic), but I still think it's sub-par for her. Venus has not relied on her net play this year.

I agree Venus is fantastic at net, but Bartoli is not mincemeat there either.

SF

Venus was 11/12 against Kuznetsova...you might want to rethink that post.

Tennisaddict
Jul 6th, 2007, 08:31 PM
Venus vs. Bartoli

first serve Venus
second serve Marion
return of serve even
forehand Marion
backhand Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) slight edge to Venus her wingspan makes her more difficult to pass.
movement Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) Venus
fight even

Btw, this is the first time that Marion has to face a thunder serve like Venus. The first serve should be hard to handle for her.
__________________

SV_Fan
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:06 PM
Venus vs. Bartoli

first serve Venus
second serve Marion
return of serve even
forehand Marion
backhand Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) slight edge to Venus her wingspan makes her more difficult to pass.
movement Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) Venus
fight even

Btw, this is the first time that Marion has to face a thunder serve like Venus. The first serve should be hard to handle for her.
__________________

That is true and she steps inside the baseline she might want to step back because if she doesn't the ball might be going out.

VishaalMaria
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:10 PM
If Bartoli doesn't step back she's going to get hit in the face. And thats extremely possible.

sfselesfan
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:11 PM
Venus was 11/12 against Kuznetsova...you might want to rethink that post.

I'm not rethinkning anything. I knew that when I posted it. I've been a proponent of Venus at net for years, but I still think Bartoli has been more solid there overall this tournament.

SF

SV_Fan
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:12 PM
Don't count out Venus.

sfselesfan
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:12 PM
Anyone who has counted Venus out is a complete moron.

SF

Viktymise
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:13 PM
Ehm Bartoli won't be stepping in anywhere on the court on Venus's 1st serve if she is serving well

Apoleb
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:14 PM
I think people are overestimating Bartoli. She did play one of her best matches ever, but Justine had nothing on her strokes and looked spent from the get go.

That's why this tournament is Venus' to lose. She has to self destruct and get in a very bad zone to lose this match. It's possible, but I don't think it will happen.

sfselesfan
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Ehm Bartoli won't be stepping in anywhere on the court on Venus's 1st serve if she is serving well

I hope so.

I've watched three Bartoli matches now and I was shocked and impressed by her. Like I've said, I was hoping for Justine in the final because I think she's easier to defeat on grass.

The biggest server I've seen Bartoli play against was Michaella, and she was pretty formidable. I'm hoping Venus can push her back. The worry for me is that Marion's shots are so solid.

If I hadn't watched three Bartoli matches I wouldn't be worried tonight.

SF

Viktymise
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:18 PM
I hope so.

I've watched three Bartoli matches now and I was shocked and impressed by her. Like I've said, I was hoping for Justine in the final because I think she's easier to defeat on grass.

The biggest server I've seen Bartoli play against was Michaella, and she was pretty formidable. I'm hoping Venus can push her back. The worry for me is that Marion's shots are so solid.

If I hadn't watched three Bartoli matches I wouldn't be worried tonight.

SF

Venus looked alot better in her 3 matches, plus Bartoli has faced no one like Venus yet, none of her opponents were hitting the ball with as much pace and depth, or serving as big and getting as many balls back all at once

sfselesfan
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:19 PM
Venus looked alot better in her 3 matches

I agree with that statement. Problem with it is that Bartoli plays like Morigami, but a lot better.

I still think Venus will win, but Bartoli can be tricky.

Don't be too confident.

SF

BK4ever
Jul 7th, 2007, 12:38 AM
Marion is not stepping back for anyone. She has faced lots of big servers before and she always stays in the same position. It will not be an easy match unless Marions nerves get to her. Venus will need to serve big, move her around, stretch her out wide and keep the errors low to win. Marion is playing inspired tennis and not gonna back down. Didn't she come back from a set down in her last three matches?

Andrew Laeddis
Jul 7th, 2007, 12:45 AM
I agree with that statement. Problem with it is that Bartoli plays like Morigami, but a lot better.

I still think Venus will win, but Bartoli can be tricky.

Don't be too confident.

SF

True but Venus has upped her level tremendously since beating Morigami If she were to play Morigami the way she has played thelast 3 round she would win 6-1,6-0

Andrew Laeddis
Jul 7th, 2007, 12:51 AM
Marion is not stepping back for anyone. She has faced lots of big servers before and she always stays in the same position. It will not be an easy match unless Marions nerves get to her. Venus will need to serve big, move her around, stretch her out wide and keep the errors low to win. Marion is playing inspired tennis and not gonna back down. Didn't she come back from a set down in her last three matches?

if she wants to get 120mph serves in play she will step back or she will be in a lot of trouble.

Donny
Jul 7th, 2007, 12:55 AM
Marion is not stepping back for anyone. She has faced lots of big servers before and she always stays in the same position. It will not be an easy match unless Marions nerves get to her. Venus will need to serve big, move her around, stretch her out wide and keep the errors low to win. Marion is playing inspired tennis and not gonna back down. Didn't she come back from a set down in her last three matches?

Irrelevant. Venus has the biggest serve in the women's game. She's never faced a serve like Venus' before.

Cp6uja
Jul 7th, 2007, 12:57 AM
20 most important things in tennis (who is better):


1. Venus Williams
2. Venus Williams
3. Venus Williams
4. Venus Williams
5. Venus Williams
6. Marion Bartoli
7. Venus Williams
8. Venus Williams
9. Venus Williams
10. Venus Williams
11. Marion Bartoli
12. Marion Bartoli
13. Venus Williams
14. Venus Williams
15. Venus Williams
16. Venus Williams
17. Venus Williams
18. Marion Bartoli
19. Venus Williams
20. Venus Williams


IMO

fufuqifuqishahah
Jul 7th, 2007, 01:02 AM
If Bartoli doesn't step back she's going to get hit in the face. And thats extremely possible.

:lol: that was funny.


would be interesting to see a big mark on her face.

Alizé Molik
Jul 7th, 2007, 01:12 AM
I think Marion will put pressure on Vee's second serve like Ivanovic did and she could get some errors off that but Venus is looking fairly solid. Venus just needs to have that self belief to win and I think she's getting that back with every match and she'll lift her game that extra level to win.

I think Marion will make a good account of herself (Not Ivanovic at RG style) but Vee will win, I know Marion's had huge upsets but Venus looks far too good on grass to be really bothered by Marion, she just has to make sure that she holds her nerve when Marion inevitably comes back strong in the second set.

supergrunt
Jul 7th, 2007, 01:15 AM
first serve- Venus
second serve- Venus
return of serve- Venus
forehand- Venus
backhand- Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)- Venus
movement- Venus

Those of you putting Bartoli for return are stupid. :silly:
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)- Venus

HippityHop
Jul 7th, 2007, 01:20 AM
I'll be very impressed with Bartoli if, after she gets hit a few times with 124 mph serves, she continues to step into the court on Venus' first serve. :devil:

LindsayRulz
Jul 7th, 2007, 01:31 AM
first serve = Venus
second serve = Bartoli
return of serve = Bartoli
forehand = Bartoli
backhand = Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) = Venus
movement = Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = Venus

~Eclipsed~
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:08 AM
bartoli returned serve really well and her balls are really flat for the most part and not sitting up.
did anyone notice how eerily similar Bartolis' court positioning was to Venus? exact same place that Venus stands to return serves.

actually it seems like Bartoli stands closer to the service line than Venus, even on first serves. Any closer and she might actually be on the baseline. She better not stand that close tomorrow against Venus or she won't be getting many serves back.

Alizé Molik
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:17 AM
actually it seems like Bartoli stands closer to the service line than Venus, even on first serves. Any closer and she might actually be on the baseline. She better not stand that close tomorrow against Venus or she won't be getting many serves back.

or Venus will dump most of her first serves into the net and Marion will put pressure on/attack her second serve ;)

~Eclipsed~
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:23 AM
or Venus will dump most of her first serves into the net and Marion will put pressure on/attack her second serve ;)

wishful thinking.:p :D

Alizé Molik
Jul 7th, 2007, 06:40 AM
wishful thinking.:p :D

that's what it's all about - belief :D