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tennisjunky
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:18 PM
how the players match up against each other on grass, who’s got the weapons to hurt who?

first serve
second serve
return of serve
forehand
backhand
net play (volleys, approach shots)
movement
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)

tennisjunky
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:20 PM
first serve= ivanovic
second serve =ivanovic
return of serve= venus
forehand= ivanovic
backhand= venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)= venus
movement= venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)= venus

ivanovic will need to play the match of her life and hope venus goes back to making tons of errors or sheís toast

canít do one on bartolli because iíve never seen her play, but I would imagine that Justine would win every category, just assuming though.

AcesHigh
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:26 PM
Ivanovic/Venus(the one from the last two matches)

first serve: Venus
second serve: Ivanovic
return of serve: Venus
forehand: Ivanovic
backhand: Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots): Venus
movement: Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength): Venus

I don't think it's close :-\

Slutiana
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:26 PM
first serve - Venus
second serve - Ivanovic
return of serve - Venus
forehand - Ivanovic (although venus' has been pretty amazing the past 2 matches)
backhand - Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) - Venus
movement - Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) - Venus

mboyle
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:28 PM
ivanovic will need to play the match of her life and hope venus goes back to making tons of errors or sheís toast

Only one of these two needs to happen, but I'm predicting Venus vs. Juju in the final.

AcesHigh
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:30 PM
Only one of these two needs to happen, but I'm predicting Venus vs. Juju in the final.

Even Ana playing the match of her life may not be enough.

Viktymise
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:32 PM
first serve: Venus
second serve: Ivanovic
return of serve: Venus
forehand: Ivanovic but Venus's has been better in the last 2 matches
backhand: Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots): Venus
movement: Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength): Venus

Iceland
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Marion/Justine

first serve : Justine's first serve is better but Marion has a higher percentage of first serves. Equal.
second serve : Justine.
return of serve : Marion, it's her biggest weapon.
forehand : Justine.
backhand : Justine.
net play (volleys, approach shots) : Justine.
movement : Justine.
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) : it could be Marion who has nothing to lose. Hénin has the experience with her though.

BartoliBabes
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:47 PM
henin/bartoli

first serve:: both have really good first serves but henin more so
second serve:: henin
return of serve:: bartoli
forehand:: again, both have a big shot in their forehands but justine more so
backhand:: same as above
net play:: henin though bartoli can hit the drive volley perfectly
movement:: henin
intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength):: bartoli, no pressure where as henin is expected to win

hablo
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:52 PM
first serve= ivanovic
second serve =ivanovic
return of serve= venus
forehand= ivanovic
backhand= venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)= venus
movement= venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)= venus

ivanovic will need to play the match of her life and hope venus goes back to making tons of errors or sheís toast

canít do one on bartolli because iíve never seen her play, but I would imagine that Justine would win every category, just assuming though.

Venus' first serve has been amazing, especially against Sharapova and Kuznetsova.

tennisjunky
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:55 PM
henin/bartoli

first serve:: both have really good first serves but henin more so
second serve:: henin
return of serve:: bartoli
forehand:: again, both have a big shot in their forehands but justine more so
backhand:: same as above
net play:: henin though bartoli can hit the drive volley perfectly
movement:: henin
intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength):: bartoli, no pressure where as henin is expected to win

thanks. didnt know much about her because she hasnt made it to tv that often. sounds like shes got the weapons to make it a challenge, too bad mentally justine will be too strong for her. with hope maybe marion will just go for it and not think too much about things, otherwise jutine will make quick work of her.

based on weapons maybe bartolli can at least take a set, wishful thinking, but who knows?

Helen Lawson
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:56 PM
Baroil-if Justine falls over the net and lands between her thighs, she can snap Justine's neck like a twig.

supergrunt
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:13 PM
first serve- Venus
second serve- Even
return of serve- Venus
forehand- Even
backhand- Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)- Venus
movement- Venus
intangibles- Venus
Waste of time to do the Bartoli one :p

Slutiana
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:19 PM
Even Ana playing the match of her life may not be enough.

agreed...remember masha and davenport and even pierce in the second 2 years ago?

Direwolf
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:27 PM
Venus vs Ivanovic:

first serve = VENUS
second serve = VENUS
return of serve = VENUS
forehand = VENUS
backhand = VENUS
net play (volleys, approach shots) = VENUS
movement = VENUS
intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = VENUS, VENUS, VENUS

Henin vs Bartoli:

first serve = HENIN
second serve = HENIN
return of serve = HENIN
forehand = HENIN
backhand = HENIN
net play (volleys, approach shots) = HENIN
movement = HENIN
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = HENIN, HENIN, HENIN, HENIN


the FINAL:
VEE vs JuJu

first serve = VENUS
second serve = VENUS
return of serve = VENUS
forehand = HENIN
backhand = HENIN
net play (volleys, approach shots) = VENUS
movement = VENUS
variety = HENIN
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = EQUAL, VENUS, EQUAL

Thanx4nothin
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:48 PM
first serve - Venus
second serve - Ivanovic
return of serve - Venus
forehand - Ivanovic (although venus' has been pretty amazing the past 2 matches)
backhand - Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) - Venus
movement - Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) - Venus

Yes i agree with that...however, although Ivanovic's forehand is better when on song..it was pretty poor throughout her match today.

sfselesfan
Jul 5th, 2007, 08:41 PM
first serve= ivanovic

Put the crack pipe away.

SF

sfselesfan
Jul 5th, 2007, 08:43 PM
first serve = Venus (clearly)
second serve = Ivanovic
return of serve = Venus
forehand = Ivanovic
backhand = Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) = Venus (but Ivanovic is catching up quickly)
movement = Venus
intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = Venus


SF

eugreene2
Jul 5th, 2007, 08:48 PM
first serve- Venus
second serve- Even
return of serve- Venus
forehand- Even
backhand- Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)- Venus
movement- Venus
intangibles- Venus
Waste of time to do the Bartoli one :p

LOL, this one looks madd biased & I'm a Venus supporter. I would think Ana had little to no game. LOL

When I see all my fellow Venus fans THIS confident, I get madd nervous. I think I better stay off this site until after the match.

supergrunt
Jul 5th, 2007, 08:49 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to make you madd. :p

supergrunt
Jul 5th, 2007, 08:49 PM
I didn't say that V would win though.

Derek.
Jul 5th, 2007, 08:51 PM
Henin vs. Bartoli

First serve: Henin
Second serve: Henin
Return of serve: Henin
Forehand: Henin
Backhand: Henin
Net play (volleys, approach shots): Henin
Movement: Henin
Intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength): Henin


V. Williams vs. Ivanovic

First serve: V. Williams
Second serve: Ivanovic
Return of serve: V. Williams
Forehand: Ivanovic
Backhand: V. Williams
Net play (volleys, approach shots): V. Williams
Movement: V. Williams
Intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength): V. Williams

sfselesfan
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:19 PM
First serve: Bartoli (Justine's was better before USO last year)
Second serve: Justine
Return of serve: Bartoli
Forehand: Justine
Backhand: Justine
Net play (volleys, approach shots): Justine
Movement: Justine
Intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength): Justine

Odds on Final:

First serve: Venus
Second serve: Justine
Return of serve: Venus
Forehand: Justine
Backhand: Venus
Net play (volleys, approach shots): Tie
Movement: Venus
Intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength): Venus

SF

supergrunt
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Why am I the only one that likes Venus' forehand? :mad:

Andrew Laeddis
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:32 PM
first serve= ivanovic
second serve =ivanovic
return of serve= venus
forehand= ivanovic
backhand= venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)= venus
movement= venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)= venus

ivanovic will need to play the match of her life and hope venus goes back to making tons of errors or sheís toast

canít do one on bartolli because iíve never seen her play, but I would imagine that Justine would win every category, just assuming though.


was exactly was ur criteria for 1st serve. venus has a big,better and more lethal first serve.

Andrew Laeddis
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:36 PM
Venus vs Ivanovic:

first serve = VENUS
second serve = VENUS
return of serve = VENUS
forehand = VENUS
backhand = VENUS
net play (volleys, approach shots) = VENUS
movement = VENUS
intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = VENUS, VENUS, VENUS

Henin vs Bartoli:

first serve = HENIN
second serve = HENIN
return of serve = HENIN
forehand = HENIN
backhand = HENIN
net play (volleys, approach shots) = HENIN
movement = HENIN
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = HENIN, HENIN, HENIN, HENIN


the FINAL:
VEE vs JuJu

first serve = VENUS
second serve = VENUS
return of serve = VENUS
forehand = HENIN
backhand = HENIN
net play (volleys, approach shots) = VENUS
movement = VENUS
variety = HENIN
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = EQUAL, VENUS, EQUAL


i agree about the vee/juju except i think they are even on second serve and backhand.

Andrew Laeddis
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:40 PM
Why am I the only one that likes Venus' forehand? :mad:

it has been quite good the last few matches. in the sharapova match it seemed to be her biggest weapon. venus is capable of hitting great forehands.. when her complete game is on i think her forehand can be just as dangerous as ana's.

Il Primo!
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:44 PM
Venus/Ana

first serve Venus
second serve Ana
return of serve Venus
forehand Ana
backhand Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots) Venus
movement Venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) Venus

Henin/Bartoli

No need to draft the list, Henin is the best in every area

sfselesfan
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:44 PM
Why am I the only one that likes Venus' forehand? :mad:

Based solely on the last two rounds of this tournament, I would rate it higher. However, I'm considering the totality of the circumstances. Historically, it has a tendency to spray balls. It is not a bad shot, but to compare it to Ivanovic (one of the best on tour...reminds me of Lindsay) and Henin (her best groundstroke IMO), I think Venus' forehand is less formidable.

SF

Slutiana
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:51 PM
Venus vs Ivanovic:

first serve = VENUS
second serve = VENUS
return of serve = VENUS
forehand = VENUS
backhand = VENUS
net play (volleys, approach shots) = VENUS
movement = VENUS
intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = VENUS, VENUS, VENUS

Henin vs Bartoli:

first serve = HENIN
second serve = HENIN
return of serve = HENIN
forehand = HENIN
backhand = HENIN
net play (volleys, approach shots) = HENIN
movement = HENIN
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = HENIN, HENIN, HENIN, HENIN


the FINAL:
VEE vs JuJu

first serve = VENUS
second serve = VENUS
return of serve = VENUS
forehand = HENIN
backhand = HENIN
net play (volleys, approach shots) = VENUS
movement = VENUS
variety = HENIN
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength) = EQUAL, VENUS, EQUAL

lol you made one up....you can't do that:p

i agree about the vee/juju except i think they are even on second serve and backhand.

yeah...their forehands are even too right now

it has been quite good the last few matches. in the sharapova match it seemed to be her biggest weapon. venus is capable of hitting great forehands.. when her complete game is on i think her forehand can be just as dangerous as ana's.

agreed.

Based solely on the last two rounds of this tournament, I would rate it higher. However, I'm considering the totality of the circumstances. Historically, it has a tendency to spray balls. It is not a bad shot, but to compare it to Ivanovic (one of the best on tour...reminds me of Lindsay) and Henin (her best groundstroke IMO), I think Venus' forehand is less formidable.

SF

Historically it does but everyone knows that so they hit to her forehand when in acual fact, it is a billion times better than it was even between 00-03 then, it was bad thing in her game..this year, shes shown that its a weapon and shes probably hit more winners on it this year than on her bhand

Andrew Laeddis
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:54 PM
Historically it does but everyone knows that so they hit to her forehand when in acual fact, it is a billion times better than it was even between 00-03 then, it was bad thing in her game..this year, shes shown that its a weapon and shes probably hit more winners on it this year than on her bhand

true she can use her backhand to open up the court for a forehand winner.

sfselesfan
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:58 PM
Historically it does but everyone knows that so they hit to her forehand when in acual fact, it is a billion times better than it was even between 00-03 then, it was bad thing in her game..this year, shes shown that its a weapon and shes probably hit more winners on it this year than on her bhand

It was not a pretty shot at Roland Garros, nor against Morigami.

I disagree with your assessment of her forehand circa 2001, it was not a "bad" shot then, as it isn't now. She straightened her forehand out pretty well in the second half of 2000. It tends to go off when she's been away from the tour for a while.

All I'm saying is it's had problems of late and it doesn't stand up to Ana's IMO.

SF

Viktymise
Jul 5th, 2007, 10:39 PM
Anyone who thinks Ivanovic's 1st serve is better than Venus's right now is having serious delusions :tape:

tennisjunky
Jul 5th, 2007, 11:06 PM
was exactly was ur criteria for 1st serve. venus has a big,better and more lethal first serve.

overall effectiveness, i guess. ivanovic's wont do anything but help her. venus' first serve is great, but because she give misses a lot of first serves it's overall not as effective. ana has a great first serve almost as good as venus if she's on, but if she's not its still no where as bad as venus can be. its jsut about even to be honest. i picked venus for everything else, thought the first serve could favor ana more, possibly.

Uranium
Jul 5th, 2007, 11:22 PM
venus vs. ivanovic
first serve=VENUS
second serve=ivanovic
return of serve=venus
forehand=ivanovic
backhand=venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)=venus
movement=VENUS
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength=Venus

henin vs bartoli

first serve=henin
second serve=henin
return of serve=bartoli
forehand=henin
backhand=henin
net play (volleys, approach shots)=henin
movement=henin
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength=henin because she beat her at eastbourne, bartoli may be nervous or she may just goo for her shots

sfselesfan
Jul 5th, 2007, 11:30 PM
overall effectiveness, i guess. ivanovic's wont do anything but help her. venus' first serve is great, but because she give misses a lot of first serves it's overall not as effective. ana has a great first serve almost as good as venus if she's on, but if she's not its still no where as bad as venus can be. its jsut about even to be honest. i picked venus for everything else, thought the first serve could favor ana more, possibly.

Sorry but...




http://web.syr.edu/~rtharper/bullshit.jpg




SF

SV_Fan
Jul 5th, 2007, 11:31 PM
first serve: Venus
second serve: Ivanovic
return of serve: Venus
forehand: Equal
backhand: Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots): Venus
movement: Venus, Ana is like Davenport but Davenport moved more and she was the taller one.
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength): Venus this is for Serena!!!!!!!

Bruno71
Jul 6th, 2007, 02:36 AM
Venus vs. Ivanovic:

first serve=Venus (Ivanovic has a very good one though)
second serve=Ivanovic
return of serve=Venus
forehand=Ivanovic
backhand=Venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)=Venus
movement=Venus, unquestionably
intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength)=Venus, unquestionably

Henin vs Bartoli

first serve=Henin
second serve=Henin, unquestionably
return of serve=Henin, unquestionably
forehand=Henin
backhand=Henin
net play (volleys, approach shots)=Henin, unquestionably
movement=Henin, unquestionably
intangibles (experience, H2Hs, mental strength)=Henin

Donny
Jul 6th, 2007, 02:44 AM
overall effectiveness, i guess. ivanovic's wont do anything but help her. venus' first serve is great, but because she give misses a lot of first serves it's overall not as effective. ana has a great first serve almost as good as venus if she's on, but if she's not its still no where as bad as venus can be. its jsut about even to be honest. i picked venus for everything else, thought the first serve could favor ana more, possibly.

*cough French Open 07 Final cough*

Venus' first serve, they way she's been serving lately, is like Ivanisevic's. Ridiculously good.

DavenportForever
Jul 6th, 2007, 02:53 AM
first serve= ivanovic
second serve =ivanovic
return of serve= venus
forehand= ivanovic
backhand= venus
net play (volleys, approach shots)= venus
movement= venus
intangibles ( experience, H2Hs, mental strength)= venus

ivanovic will need to play the match of her life and hope venus goes back to making tons of errors or sheís toast

canít do one on bartolli because iíve never seen her play, but I would imagine that Justine would win every category, just assuming though.

i agree with everything u have, except the first sereve, i'd probably give it to Venus.

Andrew Laeddis
Jul 6th, 2007, 04:17 AM
overall effectiveness, i guess. ivanovic's wont do anything but help her. venus' first serve is great, but because she give misses a lot of first serves it's overall not as effective. ana has a great first serve almost as good as venus if she's on, but if she's not its still no where as bad as venus can be. its jsut about even to be honest. i picked venus for everything else, thought the first serve could favor ana more, possibly.

if she misses its not a first serve its a fault. if she get it in its a first serve and when she gets in she gets in bigger and better than ana

Sir Stefwhit
Jul 6th, 2007, 05:55 AM
if she misses its not a first serve its a fault. if she get it in its a first serve and when she gets in she gets in bigger and better than ana

Not quite, if she misses on her first attempt to serve it's a FIRST serve fault. If first serves only counted if they are in, then everybody would have 100% first serve percentage. If someone is more prone to miss the first serve then that's a factor in determining who has the better first serve.

With that said I still would rather have Venus' first serve over Ana's. Although Ana's is a nice weapon to have.

Mana
Jul 6th, 2007, 10:45 AM
When shes warmed up, Marion can hit some mad forehand winners.

tennisjunky
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:20 PM
think some of you need to go back and readjust your bartolli-justine matchups. i didn't know about bartolli so i didn't do one for her, but all of you who did made it seem like she had no weapons. that girls has got some major weapons, now i know!

nhissan
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Only one of these two needs to happen, but I'm predicting Venus vs. Juju in the final.

:lol: