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Iconoclast
Jul 6th, 2002, 12:00 AM
Yes, devastated.

Think about the implications of a loss to her nearest rival on Saturday. She will be denied the historic triple crown at the world's most prestigious tennis tournament. Her Slam cabinet, while still bulging, will lack the variety of her sister's.

She will continue her losing streak against a player she used to toy around with. Key Biscayne was a regular trashing. Roland Garros was an improvement, but she still didn't make it to set number 3.

And then we have the mathematics. The rankings will see Serena Williams surging ahead with an 800 point lead - despite having played two tournaments less. A marked sign of superiority

And a clear signal that perhaps we should we be talking more about Serena domination than Williams domination. Sure, Venus would still be way ahead of the remaining pack. But we can hardly place her on the same pedestal as Serena. If she loses the final.

Of course, Venus Williams is too level-headed to be devastated - even if Serena blows her off court tomorrow. But when you analyze their rivalry and its current trend, she would have reason to be.

Comfort, in the shape of her main adversary, is near, though. And that's the silver lining.

Iconoclast
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:22 PM
No way to deny it: Serena Domination is on.

And Venus did look devastated. Or should I say dejected. Sure, that's to be expected from someone who has just lost a Slam final. She recovered quickly, though. And handled the awards ceremony with grace and jocularity.

But when she gets back home and calmly reflects on her European summer tour, it must enter her mind if this it what will await her in the years to come.

An almost insurmountable challenge in the shape of her sister.

RYNJ
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:24 PM
Well the hardcourt season is coming up....

so I expect Venus to be better. She is clearly the best on fast hardcourts. IMO even against Serena.

Bright Red
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:26 PM
Serena has an advantage because she plays Venus no differently from the other top players. Venus came very close to returning in kind today. Unfortunately, she fell short.

I could see the devastation in Venus face after the loss. I shared her pain, believe you me.

Iconoclast
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:26 PM
Yes, but the same was said about grass, wasn't it? And we have to remember that New York is where Serena had her career breakthrough.

RYNJ
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:28 PM
Yea, but IMO Serena to me has always looked like a better grass court player than Venus.

Robbie.
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:28 PM
Another interesting post. The results dictate that Venus/Jenn are pretty even over the past 52 weeks. Serena has two slams, a tour championship and 3 tier 1's. Venus and Jenn have a slam each, not much else. Serena is clearly a cut above. This really is SERENA domination, Venus has just been fortunate to be on the other side of the draw to her at RG and Wimby. Venus and the rest of the pack have alot of catching up to do, if Serena can sustain this level...

Williams Rulez
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:30 PM
Venus looked devastated... I felt real bad about it...

But some one has to lose... so that kind of puts things into perspective... :)

DD
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:30 PM
i really hope venus wins us open.

i dont want her to go slamless this year

Becool
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:32 PM
Daniel_Forever what? Serena grass court player?
No way.

Grass court is more Venus' style. Serena plays on backline, which means she does better on hardcourts. Venus does the exactly thing, but she also likes to go at net, and makes her a better grass player. :p

RYNJ
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by BecoolSerenaLover
Daniel_Forever what? Serena grass court player?
No way.

Grass court is more Venus' style. Serena plays on backline, which means she does better on hardcourts. Venus does the exactly thing, but she also likes to go at net, and makes her a better grass player. :p

I guess, but its just that serve of Serena's it looks so beutiful to me on grass, lol:angel:

LucasArg
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:34 PM
I don't thing Venus looked that bad. She was dissapointed with her game today, but she looked very happy for Serena later.

She is a candy. So nice and classy:D

I love you Venus:kiss:

Rocketta
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:38 PM
Yeah I think Venus was disappointed but not devestated. USOpen 99, Venus was devestated. She has grown up since then and can put things in better perspective.

Legends
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:43 PM
Thanks for this thread, guys

i have been feeling so upset for Venus but your analysis puts things into perspective.





come back for US OPEN, Venus


whispered ' congrats serena'

tennischick
Jul 6th, 2002, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by tennisaddict.
Another interesting post. The results dictate that Venus/Jenn are pretty even over the past 52 weeks. Serena has two slams, a tour championship and 3 tier 1's. Venus and Jenn have a slam each, not much else. Serena is clearly a cut above. This really is SERENA domination, Venus has just been fortunate to be on the other side of the draw to her at RG and Wimby. Venus and the rest of the pack have alot of catching up to do, if Serena can sustain this level...

interesting comparison! especially when you factor in that both Venus and Jen are being dominated by the same person -- Serena! Serena has combined power and placement to become an unstoppable player. it's truly awesome to watch. i wonder if Jen and Venus will discuss strategy (in the way that Hingis and Davenport were rumored to have done) on how to beat Serena? :o :o :o

Fingon
Jul 6th, 2002, 04:41 PM
Was it just me? but I am sure I saw tears falling off Venus' eyes, before the ceremony.

Hingiswinsthis
Jul 6th, 2002, 06:55 PM
woooohhhhhooooooooo you go Serena:D:D:D:D!!!!

DD
Jul 6th, 2002, 06:57 PM
fingon

i saw no tears

besides i dont think venus will ever cry on court

Sam L
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:23 AM
Daniel Forever ... WRONG!

Like so many have said, grass is Venus' realm. Her game and her heart is to win on grass. Serena would only make a tougher opponent on US Hardcourts. Serena is a hardcourt monster. Venus is going to have work really hard if she is to beat Serena on the hardcourts. But I believe she is up to the task.

Informative
Jul 7th, 2002, 12:51 PM
Venus will come back stronger. She's a fighter and a champion. Even Serena knows that.

Rayny
Jul 7th, 2002, 02:11 PM
The results dictate that Venus/Jenn are pretty even over the past 52 weeks. Serena has two slams, a tour championship and 3 tier 1's. Venus and Jenn have a slam each, not much else.

Jenn has 1 slam and nothing else. Venus has 1 slam plus at least four other tour titles maybe more, I'd have to check. Plus Venus has reached the finals of two slams. There is no way Jenn and Venus could be considered even at this point.

Okay, I checked and Venus has 7 titles the past 52 weeks-- 4 titles this year alone.

sorelbow
Jul 7th, 2002, 02:37 PM
venus needs to get hurt and angry. otherwise she'll never get over this protective big sister thing that has handicapped her in her matches with serena. i did not see tears, but there was this look in venus eyes - the same haunting hurt look when serena preceded her with the first williams grand slam at the 99 us open. i think venus will come back to restore some decorum and re-establish the pecking order in the williams household.

selesrules
Jul 7th, 2002, 02:39 PM
Oh please! Just admit it, Serena is BETTER. Venus wasn't so overprotective when she was beating Serena early on, she lead the rivalry 5-1 including 4-0 in grandslams, was she overprotective then? NO. But now Serena has become too strong, Venus can't beat her wether she wants to or not. Just admit it, everyone was right: SERENA IS SUPERIOR AND WILL BE BETTER THEN VENUS. Venus can only watch.

Rayny
Jul 7th, 2002, 02:52 PM
Oh please! Just admit it, Serena is BETTER. Venus wasn't so overprotective when she was beating Serena early on, she lead the rivalry 5-1 including 4-0 in grandslams, was she overprotective then? NO. But now Serena has become too strong, Venus can't beat her wether she wants to or not

Actually one of the interesting things I've found watching Serena's victories is that Serena allowed herself to be happy and bask in the glow of victory. Venus has never allowed herself to be too happy after beating Serena in a match- she always looks remorseful. When Venus beat Serena in the semifinals of Wimbledon a couple of years back, Serena left the court in tears. Compare that to Venus who tried to mask her disappontment, maintained her composure and allowed Serena to have her moment. Serena gets much more joy from beating Venus than Venus does from beating Serena-- its pretty obvious.In that sense Vnus has alwyas been "overprotective" of Serena.

Robbie.
Jul 7th, 2002, 03:09 PM
Rayny, by "not much else" I meant significant titles. Outside of the US Open, Venus doesn't hold a title higher than a tier II. The reason I said Venus and Jenn were even is because they are both struggling to win significant titles, not hwith only won really big title in 52 weeks. The reason? Serena. She stopped Jenn from winning three big hardcourt tourneys, a big clay tourney as well as possibly the French Open. Venus has been stopped from winning two slams as well as Key Biscayne. And if Venus had turned up at half the tourneys Serena played at (ie German, Italian, Scottsdale, Canadian Open), instead of avoiding her, she probably would have been waxed just as Jenn was. Yes, Venus is infront on points becuase of those MINOR wins, but really they are on the same level at the moment. Both beat those below them (with exception of Jenn's Wimby loss) and are dominated by one player, SERENA.

Rayny
Jul 7th, 2002, 03:53 PM
Rayny, by "not much else" I meant significant titles. Outside of the US Open, Venus doesn't hold a title higher than a tier II. The reason I said Venus and Jenn were even is because they are both struggling to win significant titles, not hwith only won really big title in 52 weeks. The reason? Serena. She stopped Jenn from winning three big hardcourt tourneys, a big clay tourney as well as possibly the French Open. Venus has been stopped from winning two slams as well as Key Biscayne. And if Venus had turned up at half the tourneys Serena played at (ie German, Italian, Scottsdale, Canadian Open), instead of avoiding her, she probably would have been waxed just as Jenn was. Yes, Venus is infront on points becuase of those MINOR wins, but really they are on the same level at the moment. Both beat those below them (with exception of Jenn's Wimby loss) and are dominated by one player, SERENA.

Venus just reached the final of two consecutive grand slams and you consider that to be struggling? I just don't see any possible way to equate the results of Jen and Venus. Regardless of the tier of Venus' 6 non-grand slam titles she has demonstrated an ability to win both Grand Slam and regular tour titles and beat other top players in the last 52 weeks. It is really stretching to say two players are equal when one of them has won 6 more titles. There are only 4 Grand Slams to be won so rankings have to be established with the other tour events whether or not one considers them to be "minor". If the other events are so insignificant that they can be disregarded when factoring the rankings of the players then they should be eliminated and everyone would only have 4 opportunities a year to be ranked.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 7th, 2002, 03:59 PM
Minor events? I think the only minor events are the challenger events. For the record venus only entered one tier one, she withdrew from the other. Its hard to win tier ones if you dont even enter them, isnt it?

The fact of the matter is that while jen seems to be one of venus and serena's main challengers she is still a few steps behind them.

Robbie.
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by cybelledarkholmexx
Minor events? I think the only minor events are the challenger events. For the record venus only entered one tier one, she withdrew from the other. Its hard to win tier ones if you dont even enter them, isnt it?

The fact of the matter is that while jen seems to be one of venus and serena's main challengers she is still a few steps behind them.

She only entered one tier 1, becuase Serena entered the others. Funny about that. Thats a question for another day really :rolleyes: Maybe Jenn should enter all the events without Serena in them as well.

Venus has performed better than Jenn over the past 52 weeks at regular tour events, albeit not defeating Serena in any of those 6 other tour titles, this is why she deserves to be on top of Jenn in rankings. But in terms of being a threat to the #1 player in the world, she and Jenn are equal. And I never said Venus was struggling, she's struggling with Serena, as is Jenn. My point to stress is, I don't believe it is Williams dominance at all - its SERENA dominance.

Becool
Jul 7th, 2002, 04:57 PM
Rayny,
Of course, I'm sure if it was Serena winning Venus on that Wimbledon semifinals, Serena also wouldn't be happy for winning.. The first time they MET on a semifinals of a Grand Slam... What do you expect also?

And Serena would get touched also if instead of her, Venus who started to cry..

Callie19
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:09 PM
You're really living in a dream world if you think that Serena will dominate Venus. Just think about this for a minute. In 99' Serena won the US Open, and she was definitely on cloud nine. Venus was clearly devastated that her little sister won a grand slam before she did. We all know what happened after that; Venus was injured at the first part of the year, and when she came back, she won Wimbledon and the US Open. She of course did the same thing the next year. At the beginning of this year, Serena was injured, and guess what, when she came back she won the French, and now Wimbledon. Serena was disappointed in her past play, and she wanted to improve her game, and she did just that. Venus also did the same thing in 2000 and 2001. So I have come to the conclusion that this was just a wake up call for Venus once more. If she ever wants to win another Grand Slam (in which she will) she will have to become more focused on her tennis. So don't count Venus out, she will be back on top again.

In regards to a Williams domination, I honestly feel that they are dominating the tour. What other players stand a chance of beating them? We all saw their performances in the French and Wimbledon, and guess what, that is clearly domination. It's pretty hard to play back-to-back finals, and Venus and Serena did exactly that. Not only are they dominating singles, but they are also doing well in doubles. So I really don't but that pure Serena domination stuff, and the talk of Venus and Jennifer being at the same level. Give me a break!

TSequoia01
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by tennisaddict.
Venus has performed better than Jenn over the past 52 weeks at regular tour events, albeit not defeating Serena in any of those 6 other tour titles, this is why she deserves to be on top of Jenn in rankings. But in terms of being a threat to the #1 player in the world, she and Jenn are equal. And I never said Venus was struggling, she's struggling with Serena, as is Jenn. My point to stress is, I don't believe it is Williams dominance at all - its SERENA dominance.


Good post! But I have to disagree, it is Williams dominance. Both Williams have been in the FINALS in 3 of the last 4 slams. On hardcourt, clay, and grass. Venus made the quarters on rebound ace. Venus and Serena both have won many other tournies (and made it to finals). They as a Sister tandem are dominating. Not only are they winning but locking up the #2 spot as well.