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samsam4087
Jun 23rd, 2007, 10:55 PM
http://www.vivre-en-normandie.com/bloggy_people/images/serena_williams.jpg

Serena talks big before Wimbledon

By Martyn Herman

LONDON (Reuters) - Serena Williams says nobody will be able to beat her at Wimbledon this year if she hits top form.

The American, looking for a third singles crown at the All England Club, is seeded only seventh this year but no one will be taking her lightly, particularly after she clinched her eighth grand slam title in Australia this year.

"I think I'm still the best player out there when I'm playing well," she told reporters at Wimbledon on Saturday.

"When I'm playing well, it's hard for anyone to beat me ... it's just a fact. I don't think that anybody who has to play me goes home and shouts for joy."

Serena missed last year's Wimbledon through injury and was beaten by fellow American Jill Craybas in the third round in 2005.

"I haven't played here for a while ... I love Wimbledon, I love the courts, I'm looking forward to it," she said.

"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

Williams described her play as "horrendous" when bowing out meekly to Justine Henin at the French Open earlier this month, an experience she is in no hurry to repeat.

"It's not going to happen, I'm not going to go out without a fight ... if I go out it will be with a punch, a bang," she said.

"I'm definitely more determined, definitely hungry."

She also warned that her three-times champion sister Venus, with whom she plans to play doubles this year, is raring to go despite a mediocre year and believes she is her biggest threat.

"Venus is the best grasscourt player in the draw," she said. "I think she's the fittest I've seen her. She's playing really well and moving like the wind."

Serena faces Spain's Lourdes Dominguez Lino in the first round while 23rd seed Venus is up against Alla Kudryavtseva of Russia.

Reuchlin
Jun 23rd, 2007, 10:58 PM
"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

:yawn:
we heard it all before Serena. She really does have some self-belief issues if she feels the need to constantly harp on the fact that she's the "best," "greatest," blah blah blah.

She's like that annoying kid in school who goes around after every test to ask what everyone got and then is like, "oh, I got higher!" But if they got lower then you they're all like, "Oh, I had a headache and didn't study at all!"

That was usually a sign of some self-worth issues, and it looks the same here.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:00 PM
"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

:yawn:
we heard it all before Serena. She really does have some self-belief issues if she feels the need to constantly harp on the fact that she's the "best," "greatest," blah blah blah.

She's like that annoying kid in school who goes around after every test to ask what everyone got and then is like, "oh, I got higher!" But if they got lower then you they're all like, "Oh, I had a headache and didn't study at all!"

That was usually a sign of some self-worth issues, and it looks the same here.

:yawn: we heard all this before in the other thread :rolleyes:

volta
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:01 PM
"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

:yawn:
we heard it all before Serena. She really does have some self-belief issues if she feels the need to constantly harp on the fact that she's the "best," "greatest," blah blah blah.

She's like that annoying kid in school who goes around after every test to ask what everyone got and then is like, "oh, I got higher!" But if they got lower then you they're all like, "Oh, I had a headache and didn't study at all!"

That was usually a sign of some self-worth issues, and it looks the same here.

stupidity strike 1

2 more to go

Avid Merrion
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:03 PM
she didn't say no one will be able to beat her, she said it's hard for anyone to beat her. crucial difference ;)
and she's right, it is a fact :cool:

Tennisaddict
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:07 PM
Serena is taking over GM once again................................:lol:
And Wimbledon hasn´t even started yet!

hablo
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:09 PM
This has already been posted. :rolleyes:

RenaSlam.
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:34 PM
"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

:yawn:
we heard it all before Serena. She really does have some self-belief issues if she feels the need to constantly harp on the fact that she's the "best," "greatest," blah blah blah.

She's like that annoying kid in school who goes around after every test to ask what everyone got and then is like, "oh, I got higher!" But if they got lower then you they're all like, "Oh, I had a headache and didn't study at all!"

That was usually a sign of some self-worth issues, and it looks the same here.


You said this in another thread posted TODAY and you've probably said it countless other times.

What's the difference between Serena running her mouth all the time about her being "the best player out there when she's on" and you constantly running your mouth berating and chastizing her for saying the same shit she says all the time.

She's been saying it for years, will continue to say it for years, and probably have the same mentality until the end of her life.

So until then, shut the fuck up and accept that this is who she is. She sure as hell isn't going to change now.

:dumb ass: :tape:

ichigo
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:37 PM
oh well....
what's new. :o

why must she always run her mouth like that???

danieln1
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:40 PM
"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

:yawn:
we heard it all before Serena. She really does have some self-belief issues if she feels the need to constantly harp on the fact that she's the "best," "greatest," blah blah blah.

She's like that annoying kid in school who goes around after every test to ask what everyone got and then is like, "oh, I got higher!" But if they got lower then you they're all like, "Oh, I had a headache and didn't study at all!"

That was usually a sign of some self-worth issues, and it looks the same here.

Remember in 2002, during YEC when she said no one would beat her, then clijsters did!!! Same story here...

cnelson575
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:41 PM
Everytime Serena opens her mouth lately it reminds me of that part in
the Madonna song Sorry "Ive heard it all before" lol

schorsch
Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:50 PM
i never like the way serena handles herself in interviews, because she's too damn of a good player to be talking like that, you know. it really is hard for me to like her when all i get is this.

for me this has got nothing to do with mentality, it's a thing you switch on and good for her if she can do that on court, but its not necessary in interviews.

VishaalMaria
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:02 AM
Remember in 2002, during YEC when she said no one would beat her, then clijsters did!!! Same story here...

Yeah, then Serena payed the favour back; twice!

pipolestreinch
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:07 AM
shes so annoying and arrogant

fufuqifuqishahah
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:09 AM
"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

:yawn:
we heard it all before Serena. She really does have some self-belief issues if she feels the need to constantly harp on the fact that she's the "best," "greatest," blah blah blah.

She's like that annoying kid in school who goes around after every test to ask what everyone got and then is like, "oh, I got higher!" But if they got lower then you they're all like, "Oh, I had a headache and didn't study at all!"

That was usually a sign of some self-worth issues, and it looks the same here.

unnecessary

tennis players need to pump themselves up and have a great attitude! come on! give me a break.

The Kaz
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:10 AM
:yawn:

btw accurate post Reuchlin ;) :)

J_Migoe
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:12 AM
go for it sister girlfriend. I feel you!!!

To hell with all the naysayers.

All the best to Vee as well!!!

mdterp01
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:23 AM
:yawn: at a) this being posted again and b) the same detractors who are repeating the same thing in this thread as they did the first one. OCD much? :lol:

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:24 AM
stupidity strike 1

2 more to go

I dont think so honey, at least from a someone with a brain, its a pretty damn smart assesment.

Serena obviously needs to be feed compliments and be told how "great" she is to be such a poser.

Let your results do the talking, i say....your mouth should stay shut, it only makes you look trashy.

BTW thanks Williams fans for bad repping me. Good to know that if you voice the truth your gonna get kicked for it!

:wavey:

Serena: attension seeking showoff

T-GIRL87
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:36 AM
It's a shame that an eight time grand slam champion, with all of her list of accomplishments, has yet to earn the right to speak her mind. I could see if this was someone other Serena Williams. But since it is, with all that Serena has dealt with in her life, it will take a lot more than a loss to the number one player in the world to put her in submission. Serena in displaying nerves during her match against Justine, showed that she does have respect for players, she may not admit it some of the time but she does.

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:49 AM
It's a shame that an eight time grand slam champion, with all of her list of accomplishments, has yet to earn the right to speak her mind. I could see if this was someone other Serena Williams. But since it is, with all that Serena has dealt with in her life, it will take a lot more than a loss to the number one player in the world to put her in submission. Serena in displaying nerves during her match against Justine, showed that she does have respect for players, she may not admit it some of the time but she does.


All of that is true.

But thats where your wrong...

Im a huge fan of serenas. I am respectfull of what shes done and i respect her talent, ability and her power.

When i play i play like her, fearless...i hit as hard as i can and i take no prisoners.

HOWEVER i hate her showboating attitude.

Theres no need to be arrogant and to come accross conceited and big like that. It shows no respect to your peers and belittles them.

I think everyone needs to do there talking through there raquet, rather than spouting off and coming accross as narssasistic, whish IS NOT A GOOD QUALITY TO HAVE. EVER.


just my opinion.:o

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:00 AM
you do know you have a choice other than reading about her...she's not shoved down your throats like other players...you people choose to find these things about her and read them....you have a choice :wavey:

volta
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:19 AM
I dont think so honey, at least from a someone with a brain, its a pretty damn smart assesment.

Serena obviously needs to be feed compliments and be told how "great" she is to be such a poser.

Let your results do the talking, i say....your mouth should stay shut, it only makes you look trashy.

BTW thanks Williams fans for bad repping me. Good to know that if you voice the truth your gonna get kicked for it!

:wavey:

Serena: attension seeking showoff

ok socrates.

you have the option to not read it honey if you know its going to be trashy and from someone that is a poser and wants attention and you still go there to read it that makes you what? :wavey:

for someone with a brain and such a good analysis about Serena's personality one would think that you would not give what you acuse her of desperately wanting Attention :wavey:

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:24 AM
Serena is taking over GM once again................................:lol:
And Wimbledon hasn´t even started yet!
:lol::lol:

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:26 AM
i never like the way serena handles herself in interviews, because she's too damn of a good player to be talking like that, you know. it really is hard for me to like her when all i get is this.

for me this has got nothing to do with mentality, it's a thing you switch on and good for her if she can do that on court, but its not necessary in interviews.
Oh my, what is Serena do?

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:29 AM
All of that is true.

But thats where your wrong...

Im a huge fan of serenas. I am respectfull of what shes done and i respect her talent, ability and her power.

When i play i play like her, fearless...i hit as hard as i can and i take no prisoners.

HOWEVER i hate her showboating attitude.

Theres no need to be arrogant and to come accross conceited and big like that. It shows no respect to your peers and belittles them.

I think everyone needs to do there talking through there raquet, rather than spouting off and coming accross as narssasistic, whish IS NOT A GOOD QUALITY TO HAVE. EVER.


just my opinion.:o
That's your opinion and you know what opinions are like.

50Sense
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:30 AM
Get 'em chick!

dynamoRockstarr
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:31 AM
she said as always when she's at her best, no 1 can beat her. and that they would have a hard time trying 2 beat her. lets not hate cause thats not a good word. lets dislike that attitude of hers. which i personally do not. i believe Federer possibly thinks that way sometimes and not show it, cause you may say he has respect of the other players. i mean he has the many championships 2 prove it. You can be anything but awed at how he plays. as a fan of Serena's, i kno she can back it up. She not saying....

"HEY IM SERENA. I WON THIS AND DID THAT. AND IM BACK. IM GONNA TAKE WIMBLEDON AND NOBODYS GONNA STOP ME. I ALREADY WON THIS TOURNAMENT. THEY SHOULD JUST GIVE THE ROSEWATER DISH 2 ME NOW. CAUSE IM BETTER THAN ANY WOMEN EVER PLAYED THE GAME.."

now thats an attitude u can hate.

yeah and if u dislike her attitude u have a choice 2 not read wut she says. duh.

and another thing, she possibly says that a lot to pump herself up. and get in a frame of mind to win the tournament. i dont this she's an attention seeking show-off.

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:35 AM
ok socrates.

you have the option to not read it honey if you know its going to be trashy and from someone that is a poser and wants attention and you still go there to read it that makes you what? :wavey:

for someone with a brain and such a good analysis about Serena's personality one would think that you would not give what you acuse her of desperately wanting Attention :wavey:
:cuckoo:

Nicolás89
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:37 AM
hopefully the juju-ree match will turn out to be one of the best matches of the year :D

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:10 AM
ok socrates.

you have the option to not read it honey if you know its going to be trashy and from someone that is a poser and wants attention and you still go there to read it that makes you what? :wavey:

for someone with a brain and such a good analysis about Serena's personality one would think that you would not give what you acuse her of desperately wanting Attention :wavey:

whatever.

your sarcasm is hardly impressive and if you had the balls to read my next post you would have seen fit to notice my praise of serena. And respect.

But i dont respect people with a shit load of cockyness or attitude.

Who does? Who should? ....

later fool:o

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:13 AM
:wavey:

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:15 AM
oh well....
what's new. :o

why must she always run her mouth like that???
Cause she can and her fans love it. :worship:

10s4life
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:18 AM
blah blah blah

the same old serena showing little respect for her opponents.

it'll be the usual "i wasn't there" in the post match press conference.

Stamp Paid
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:21 AM
blah blah blah

the same old serena showing little respect for her opponents.

it'll be the usual "i wasn't there" in the post match press conference.

Justine_Fan, shoo.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:22 AM
"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

:yawn:
we heard it all before Serena. She really does have some self-belief issues if she feels the need to constantly harp on the fact that she's the "best," "greatest," blah blah blah.

She's like that annoying kid in school who goes around after every test to ask what everyone got and then is like, "oh, I got higher!" But if they got lower then you they're all like, "Oh, I had a headache and didn't study at all!"

That was usually a sign of some self-worth issues, and it looks the same here.

:lol: It would be self-worth issues if she didn't have anything to brag about. But, I think 8 grand slam championships and winning two times at this tournament earns her a right to say what she's saying.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:27 AM
All of that is true.

But thats where your wrong...

Im a huge fan of serenas. I am respectfull of what shes done and i respect her talent, ability and her power.

When i play i play like her, fearless...i hit as hard as i can and i take no prisoners.

HOWEVER i hate her showboating attitude.

Theres no need to be arrogant and to come accross conceited and big like that. It shows no respect to your peers and belittles them.

I think everyone needs to do there talking through there raquet, rather than spouting off and coming accross as narssasistic, whish IS NOT A GOOD QUALITY TO HAVE. EVER.


just my opinion.:o

:lol: You obviously have no idea what that word means, nor can you spell it. :weirdo: :lol:

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:29 AM
blah blah blah

the same old serena showing little respect for her opponents.

it'll be the usual "i wasn't there" in the post match press conference.

id agree with you if i didnt honestly think she was gonna win....but i have a feeling shes going to win, so i cant.

But i certainly loose respect when she has to go all Leila Ali on our asses and be all ghetto!:mad: :o

Oh well...she does have talent...but on court talent does not buy class and good manners.:lol:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:34 AM
whatever.

your sarcasm is hardly impressive and if you had the balls to read my next post you would have seen fit to notice my praise of serena. And respect.

But i dont respect people with a shit load of cockyness or attitude.

Who does? Who should? ....

later fool:o

:confused: Is it me, or are you talking out of both sides of your mouth?

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:37 AM
id agree with you if i didnt honestly think she was gonna win....but i have a feeling shes going to win, so i cant.

But i certainly loose respect when she has to go all Leila Ali on our asses and be all ghetto!:mad: :o

I bet she can spell though.

Oh well...she does have talent...but on court talent does not buy class and good manners.:lol:

When you stop living in a glass house, than maybe you can throw some stones.

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:43 AM
:confused: Is it me, or are you talking out of both sides of your mouth?

at least i only have one ass....im sure you cant say the same...

burn.

dont go there honey, you will LOSE.

:kiss:

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:45 AM
I bet she can spell though.



When you stop living in a glass house, than maybe you can throw some stones.

Well you would think she could spell....but you would also have expected her sister to have a clue as to Hurricane Katrina, and we all found out she knew "nothing" about that...so i dunno:confused:

CAN she spell?

As for glass houses...well, i dont have a glass house, i have a concrete condo. Too bad for you!:lick: :o


Next please....

darrinbaker00
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:47 AM
at least i only have one ass....im sure you cant say the same...

burn.

dont go there honey, you will LOSE.

:kiss:
Please don't sit on it too hard, my friend. You may suffer brain damage. ;)

lecciones
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:49 AM
I have to agree with some people here, maybe thats what I keeps me from being a fan of Serena, I'm beginning to like her then root for her then I'll remember she isn't young like before and yet she is still so cocky and well.., some people like it that way, I like it humble and quiet like what Henin does, just quiet saying she will do her best try new things out then wins. And yet if Serena does win it is us who looks bad. I guess it is true they need to pump themselves up and its all part of the intimidation preparation before the tournament, I guess I'm not that kind of person who appreciates that kind of tactic. But anyway hope Serena has something new to say next time. It's always entertaining to see the drama coming from them. Gives the sport something to talk about.

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:50 AM
Please don't sit on it too hard, my friend. You may suffer brain damage. ;)

Well ive never had any complaints sweety....

As for my statement, id rather have a skinny white ass and the ability to run up a hill than a ....what do you call it, "ghetto booty" but have the heart of a 70 year old on a Big Mac Diet....

But im sure thats not the case with Whitney over here is it?

LOL:kiss:

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:53 AM
I have to agree with some people here, maybe thats what I keeps me from being a fan of Serena, I'm beginning to like her then root for her then I'll remember she isn't young like before and yet she is still so cocky and well.., some people like it that way, I like it humble and quiet like what Henin does, just quiet saying she will do her best try new things out then wins. And yet if Serena does win it is us who looks bad. I guess it is true they need to pump themselves up and its all part of the intimidation preparation before the tournament, I guess I'm not that kind of person who appreciates that kind of tactic. But anyway hope Serena has something new to say next time. It's always entertaining to see the drama coming from them. Gives the sport something to talk about.

Yes, i respect henin because she doesnt need to talk trash...


LMAO @ Martina Hingis in your avatar....cause we all know how humble SHE WAS!:lol: :tape: ........but to be fair shes come back more mature and classier than ever!!!:D :worship: :worship: :worship:


(serena should take a tip from the swiss miss if you ask me!:help: )

mdterp01
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:07 AM
[QUOTE=CANDYCOATED;11045506


(serena should take a tip from the swiss miss if you ask me!:help: )[/QUOTE]

NOBODY DID!!:rolleyes:

StarDuvallGrant
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:14 AM
Everytime Serena opens her mouth lately it reminds me of that part in
the Madonna song Sorry "Ive heard it all before" lol

Then why read anything with Serena's name in it? :scratch:

W!MBLEDON
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:37 AM
LONDON (Reuters) - Serena Williams says nobody will be able to beat her at Wimbledon this year if she hits top form.

God. I wish she'd shut her fat mouth. It isn't even self-belief. It's downright cockiness and nobody likes it. She's basically disregarding anyone who HAS beaten her. She probably won't hit top form because she'll be feeling the after-effects of the double cheeseburgers she gets from McDonald's every day. Jankovic, Sharapova, Henin and a few others all have a good chance to beat her regardless of whether or not she hits top form. I hate how she thinks she's better than everyone else when she's 'on'. If she's so good, why isn't she No. 1? Because she's lazy and unfit and chooses not to play any tournaments? This woman needs to get a life. Seriously.

Diesel
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:43 AM
God. I wish she'd shut her fat mouth. It isn't even self-belief. It's downright cockiness and nobody likes it. She's basically disregarding anyone who HAS beaten her. She probably won't hit top form because she'll be feeling the after-effects of the double cheeseburgers she gets from McDonald's every day. Jankovic, Sharapova, Henin and a few others all have a good chance to beat her regardless of whether or not she hits top form. I hate how she thinks she's better than everyone else when she's 'on'. If she's so good, why isn't she No. 1? Because she's lazy and unfit and chooses not to play any tournaments? This woman needs to get a life. Seriously.

Like the life you've found bashing Serena :lol:

W!MBLEDON
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:45 AM
It isn't a 'life bashing Serena'. It's called posting on a forum. I'm bashing her because she's an arrogant slob who needs to accept the fact that when she loses, her opponents beat her, fair and square. There is no 'I didn't try'.

http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/dhhps/images/Cow%20Photos/cow%20grazing.jpg

LOL IT'S SERENA!

Diesel
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:50 AM
It isn't a 'life bashing Serena'. It's called posting on a forum. I'm bashing her because she's an arrogant slob who needs to accept the fact that when she loses, her opponents beat her, fair and square. There is no 'I didn't try'.



LOL IT'S SERENA!

Sure, going around in the Serena marked threads is a good life. I agree 100% with you :yeah: But it never fails that people who call Serena arrogant are rather rude and insensitive themselves. Hypocrites like yourself :lol:

CANDYCOATED
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:50 AM
It isn't a 'life bashing Serena'. It's called posting on a forum. I'm bashing her because she's an arrogant slob who needs to accept the fact that when she loses, her opponents beat her, fair and square. There is no 'I didn't try'.

http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/dhhps/images/Cow%20Photos/cow%20grazing.jpg

LOL IT'S SERENA!


thank god!

i hope you get good repd for this,

its sad that most people are too scared of getting reprimanded for criticising this type of stuff.

I dont hate serena but she is a showboat and very arrogant.:help:

W!MBLEDON
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:51 AM
:haha: Sorry about being right and all!

W!MBLEDON
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:52 AM
I love how people badrep you as if it's going to make you stop posting on the forum and go crying in a corner or something like that. :haha: Serena is the whole package, fit for an absolute hater like myself.

... Wait, did I just say Serena was fit? WHOA! Going too far!

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 06:46 AM
Obviously she feels the need to pump herself up after being thrashed so badly in RG by Justine.
Wish she could be more humble, but it takes all types to make the world, and she obviously belongs to the Mohammed Ali school of talking big and disrespecting opponents.
How unlike her older sister, who at least has a bit of class.
Spoilt, overly aggressive, ugly and chunky as hell, she makes a great villain for the tennis stage, much like the villains of the WWF.
Makes for great drama, though.

TSequoia01
Jun 24th, 2007, 06:50 AM
Obviously she feels the need to pump herself up after being thrashed so badly in RG by Justine.
Wish she could be more humble, but it takes all types to make the world, and she obviously belongs to the Mohammed Ali school of talking big and disrespecting opponents.
Makes for great drama, and most of the civilised world that watches tennis will have filed her into the "villain" category, something like WWF.

Serena is no villian,a fairer player has never set foot on a tennis court. Okay maybe Ivanovic. :o

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 06:57 AM
at least i only have one ass....im sure you cant say the same...

burn.

dont go there honey, you will LOSE.

:kiss:

What???!!! :weirdo: Lose on what, you haven't said shit. :haha: :dumbass:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 07:03 AM
Well you would think she could spell....but you would also have expected her sister to have a clue as to Hurricane Katrina, and we all found out she knew "nothing" about that...so i dunno:confused:

CAN she spell?

Like Venus supposedly not being aware of Hurricane Katrina has anything to do with Serena's spelling abilities. Yeah, that makes sense. :rolleyes:

As for glass houses...well, i dont have a glass house, i have a concrete condo. Too bad for you!:lick: :o


Next please....

And, a concrete head. :tape: :help:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 07:06 AM
Well ive never had any complaints sweety....

As for my statement, id rather have a skinny white ass and the ability to run up a hill than a ....what do you call it, "ghetto booty" but have the heart of a 70 year old on a Big Mac Diet....

But im sure thats not the case with Whitney over here is it?

LOL:kiss:

Darrin, it's obvious she's clueless. ^^

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 07:16 AM
thank god!

i hope you get good repd for this,

its sad that most people are too scared of getting reprimanded for criticising this type of stuff.

I dont hate serena but she is a showboat and very arrogant.:help:

Yet you respect her...or don't you? :scratch: On the one hand you do, but on the other you don't, but on the one you do, but on the other you don't...You do respect her, you don't respect, you do respect her, you don't respect...she's your sister and your daughter. :p

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 07:18 AM
I love how people badrep you as if it's going to make you stop posting on the forum and go crying in a corner or something like that. :haha: Serena is the whole package, fit for an absolute hater like myself.

... Wait, did I just say Serena was fit? WHOA! Going too far!

TROLL ALERT :help:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 07:19 AM
Obviously she feels the need to pump herself up after being thrashed so badly in RG by Justine.
Wish she could be more humble, but it takes all types to make the world, and she obviously belongs to the Mohammed Ali school of talking big and disrespecting opponents.
How unlike her older sister, who at least has a bit of class.
Spoilt, overly aggressive, ugly and chunky as hell, she makes a great villain for the tennis stage, much like the villains of the WWF.
Makes for great drama, though.

Here's where you lost all credibility. :tape: You watch the WWF?? :confused: Good lord. :help:

skanky~skanketta
Jun 24th, 2007, 07:34 AM
ok, she is a little irritating going on like that and i can see how it turns a few people off. but the fact is, that's just how serena is. get with it. and what's more is that there is a lot of truth to what she says. should she say it? maybe not. but can she? oh, hell yeah.

Onyxangel
Jun 24th, 2007, 08:11 AM
Serena can say anything she wants about her upcoming match... what does it matter to any of you people? She's the one that has to live with her statements, not you. Trash talk is very common in sports, but that's all it is... talk. It doesn't hurt anyone, so why take offense? Do any of you people ever watch boxing or MMA? THAT'S trash talking at it's finest... check it out sometime and you may have a better appreciation for it. Besides, does anyone here think that Rena will truely be the underdog in ANY of her matches at Wimby? The Truth is coming to England, and she has an agenda...

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 08:13 AM
Serena can say anything she wants about her upcoming match... what does it matter to any of you people? She's the one that has to live with her statements, not you. Trash talk is very common in sports, but that's all it is... talk. It doesn't hurt anyone, so why take offense? Do any of you people ever watch boxing or MMA? THAT'S trash talking at it's finest... check it out sometime and you may have a better appreciation for it. Besides, does anyone here think that Rena will truely be the underdog in ANY of her matches at Wimby? The Truth is coming to England, and she has an agenda...

You tell'em Serena's comin' and hell is comin' with her!! :fiery:

hwanmig
Jun 24th, 2007, 08:27 AM
:lol: and I almost believe there wasn't gonna be one for this Slam. Nothing I haven't seen before, this is pretty much the same vomit she throws up every other GS.

Ben.
Jun 24th, 2007, 08:31 AM
Serena can say anything she wants about her upcoming match... what does it matter to any of you people? She's the one that has to live with her statements, not you. Trash talk is very common in sports, but that's all it is... talk. It doesn't hurt anyone, so why take offense? Do any of you people ever watch boxing or MMA? THAT'S trash talking at it's finest... check it out sometime and you may have a better appreciation for it. Besides, does anyone here think that Rena will truely be the underdog in ANY of her matches at Wimby? The Truth is coming to England, and she has an agenda...

well said :worship:

Princeza
Jun 24th, 2007, 08:35 AM
http://yelims2.free.fr/DoDo/Dodo51.gif

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:08 AM
Here's where you lost all credibility. You watch the WWF?? Good lord.
Nope, don't watch it, but I am told that the way Serena lost her composure and her match in RG was akin to the way a villain gets beaten down and humiliated on WWF.
Don't you agree?
Chunky, ugly, thoroughly defeated and humilated. AND violated.
Good lord, after that tremendous beating down that Serena
received in RG, one can only expect that after being so thoroughly violated, she will need to pump herself up with some boasting.
Unfortunately, you don't win matches by boasting. I think she will have a tough time.
Cheers!

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:23 AM
Nope, don't watch it, but I am told that the way Serena lost her composure and her match in RG was akin to the way a villain gets beaten down and humiliated on WWF.
Don't you agree?
Chunky, ugly, thoroughly defeated and humilated. AND violated.
Good lord, after that tremendous beating down that Serena
received in RG, one can only expect that after being so thoroughly violated, she will need to pump herself up with some boasting.
Unfortunately, you don't win matches by boasting. I think she will have a tough time.
Cheers!

Yeah, sure you don't watch it. :lol:

No, I don't agree and who's chunky and ugly, you? What "tremendous beating down"? Justine didn't beat her 6-0 6-1, she beat her 6-3 6-4. That's not a beat down, it's a decent win.

Serena doesn't win anything by boasting. She walks the walk. At least she doesn't lie and cheat, and subject her opponents to gamesmanship. I think Justine will have a tough time, if she doesn't feign illness.

Cheers :wavey:

schorsch
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:53 AM
Serena is no villian,a fairer player has never set foot on a tennis court. Okay maybe Ivanovic. :o

yeah, thats why she circles the marks unsure calls on clay... but well thats a totally different story.

i just want her to feel good about herself without having to say these things. they are totally useless. and as far as i am concerned everybody reads many topics on players that they dont like as much, you gotta stay informed. but its always the same with serena lately. :rolleyes:

jochem
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:55 AM
Surely she's speaking her mind and she's right about her being the toughest to beat when she's on! Still I think she shouldn't say those things cause it's pretty disrespectful to other players. I mean, come on Serena, you don't need this kind of attitude with 8 Slams and all your achievements

volta
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:12 AM
whatever.

your sarcasm is hardly impressive and if you had the balls to read my next post you would have seen fit to notice my praise of serena. And respect.

But i dont respect people with a shit load of cockyness or attitude.

Who does? Who should? ....

later fool:o

uh honey you noticed that you contradicted yourself right there right?

later honey one more banned. but this was the voice of truth :haha:

DemWilliamsGulls
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:34 AM
I dont see how Serena being confident is being disrespectful to other players on the tour. I mean just because she does not kiss other people asses in interviews like 97% of the ATP and WTA does not make her disrespectful. Serena has a right to brag....the girl is BAD...I mean..she dont bullshit when she means business. She's beat #1 players and won tournaments when she's out of the top 10 to prove it....say what you want to say but YOU KNOW Serena can back up what she's preaching and I think the only people who has problem with her attitude are the ones that know that she's probably going to own up to what she's said! I think thats the type of mentality a true champion should have...OWN UP TO YOUR GAME! ..NO MERCY SERENA!! (and venus too) show these GALS what you are talkin bout baby!!!!! ( I LUV IT!)

LUXXXAS
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:45 AM
I love her! :inlove::hearts: :kiss:

Marshmallow
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:46 AM
I dont think so honey, at least from a someone with a brain, its a pretty damn smart assesment.

Serena obviously needs to be feed compliments and be told how "great" she is to be such a poser.

Let your results do the talking, i say....your mouth should stay shut, it only makes you look trashy.

BTW thanks Williams fans for bad repping me. Good to know that if you voice the truth your gonna get kicked for it!

:wavey:

Serena: attension seeking showoff

Lies and Idiocy

Do you think Serena jumped up from behind the bushed in front of journalists and started singing her own praises? No. She was interviewed by journalists and asked about her chances, and she responded honestly. She holds more slams than any active player, she has beaten all rivals more than once, and at least on one occassion VERY EASILY. Now that's a crucial point... see if in the past you have thrashed your rivals, is it not reasonable to see your self as the best player when your game is on? She also won a slam thos year...EASILY...

Marshmallow
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:02 AM
Nope, don't watch it, but I am told that the way Serena lost her composure and her match in RG was akin to the way a villain gets beaten down and humiliated on WWF.
Don't you agree?
Chunky, ugly, thoroughly defeated and humilated. AND violated.
Good lord, after that tremendous beating down that Serena
received in RG, one can only expect that after being so thoroughly violated, she will need to pump herself up with some boasting.
Unfortunately, you don't win matches by boasting. I think she will have a tough time.
Cheers!

For people who actually watched the match, you'll know Serena did not get a beatdown in any shape. She WAS FLAT, did not fight in the end, played poorly, while Henin held her composure and played solid.

Soooooooooooo... (bear with me now), If serena did not receive a beatdown, nor play her best, is she still not valid in her thinking 'when she plays well, it's very tough for anyone to beat her' (that remains the truth). Ask Maria about the AO final, and i'm sure you'll see her curl up into the fetal positions and refuse to respond. Serena did that to the girl, because when Serena plays her A game... it is still not disputed... that she can cause serious damage.

Henin's the best
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:21 AM
Serena always talks big. She talked big at the French Open as well, but we all know what happened there...
She just need to learn some humility.

Ntour
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:12 PM
her attitude is what makes her great

but in my opinion it will also be her downfall

if she already thinks she's the best she isn't really motivated towards getting any better?

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:12 PM
But why is it seen as arrogance??? What's she supposed to say? "Well I just hope that the other girls go easy on me, so that I can win?"....

Ntour
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:14 PM
For people who actually watched the match, you'll know Serena did not get a beatdown in any shape. She WAS FLAT, did not fight in the end, played poorly, while Henin held her composure and played solid.

Soooooooooooo... (bear with me now), If serena did not receive a beatdown, nor play her best, is she still not valid in her thinking 'when she plays well, it's very tough for anyone to beat her' (that remains the truth). Ask Maria about the AO final, and i'm sure you'll see her curl up into the fetal positions and refuse to respond. Serena did that to the girl, because when Serena plays her A game... it is still not disputed... that she can cause serious damage.

this is the same for many players, if they lose then it wasn't their best match, obviously because the first requirement of it being their best match is actually winning???

Ntour
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:16 PM
But why is it seen as arrogance??? What's she supposed to say? "Well I just hope that the other girls go easy on me, so that I can win?"....

no that would be going too far, but she could say something like

"I believe i'm in with a great chance at winning"

instead of "I'm The Best, Nobody can beat Me"

Craigy
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:22 PM
no that would be going too far, but she could say something like

"I believe i'm in with a great chance at winning"

instead of "I'm The Best, Nobody can beat Me"

She said when she's playing at her best...
But anyway, it makes things more interesting don't you think?

Apoorv
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:24 PM
Imagine how people would have reacted if Justine had said such a thing before RG.

Craigy
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:25 PM
Imagine how people would have reacted if Justine had said such a thing before RG.

Probably the same. :shrug:

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:27 PM
Wait, what exactly is everyone complaining about? "If I play my best it is hard to beat me" ? Is that really that far-fetched. "I am the best" ? Is she supposed to say "No, Maria is the best"? Stop being stupid. If all of you had the confidence that you suggest Serena should have, then you'd all be losers... :tape: nevermind.

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:27 PM
no that would be going too far, but she could say something like

"I believe i'm in with a great chance at winning"

instead of "I'm The Best, Nobody can beat Me"

nitpicking...everybody comes in believing they have a great chance at winning. If say Elena Baltacha said: I believe I'm with a great chance at winning...would you believe her?

pooh14
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:27 PM
i think serena could be humbler with her words.
i mean you don't see federar saying that, neither do you see nadal saying that during clay season.

i mean even after her defeat to henin in RG, her remarks were not very nice. "All she had to do is to show up".

Yes, she is a great player and maybe a nice person, but, she should be a little more discreet during interviews.

Apoorv
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:31 PM
Probably the same. :shrug:

yup! But the sides advocated by most would be opposite. :p

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:33 PM
All those Justine-fans crying and howling at Serena's words. :lol: Maybe they should go watch their own fav and the words she said after Miami: "I was the better player that day." Tjaaa..

Henin's the best
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:44 PM
All those Justine-fans crying and howling at Serena's words. :lol: Maybe they should go watch their own fav and the words she said after Miami: "I was the better player that day." Tjaaa..

Justine was the better player. But she choked and Serena was mentally stronger.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Justine was the better player. But she choked and Serena was mentally stronger.

Serena is a better player. But Serena choked and gave Justine the match at the French.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 12:54 PM
All Justine had to do was show up.

Tennisaddict
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:01 PM
Imagine how people would have reacted if Justine had said such a thing before RG.

I would have agreed with Justine because on clay at her best she´s unbeatable.

:lol: at this thread still going while it´s a duplicate of the ´Williams is ready to fight hard´ thread. It´s like Serena is not allowed to be confident when she has earned the right to be having the most slams of any active player and being the most succesful one on all surfaces.

Also a lot op people are running their mouth before comprehensively reading what Serena said because they just love to bash her. She said that when she´s playing her best nobody can beat her. Anyone who saw the Wimbledon 2002 final and the OZ 2007 final knows she´s right. Besides this attitude is what makes her a champion and I hope she will keep it until the end of her playing days.

It takes a strong personality to overcome everything that Serena has overcome and I think she should be commended for it instead of being condemned. But hey I guess old habits die hard and a lot of people will continue to bash her instead of giving her the credit she deserves.
The negative attention is quite telling tough about her status as the best active player of this generation.

nhissan
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:04 PM
Justine was the better player. But she choked and Serena was mentally stronger.

If she was the better player she should have won that match, don't you think? :D

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:05 PM
Justine was the better player. But she choked and Serena was mentally stronger.

So you are saying the better player: LOST??? :eek: :bolt:

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 01:05 PM
But when one reads this: does Serena she is the best player right NOW?? Don't see that.

minboy
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:04 PM
But why is it seen as arrogance???

:tape:

Just take Federer : he's on his way to became the greatest player ever, yet you'll never hear him say such things.

Take Justine at the French open : it's fair to say she totally owns that tournament, yet you will never hear her say " If I'm playing well nobody can beat me"

I just don't understand why you Serena fans can't accept the fact that she's at times very arrogant and cocky. She's human, therefore she has flaws. And arrogance is one of them. Doesn't mean she's a bitch and all, just that she has flaws.

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:07 PM
:tape:

Just take Federer : he's on his way to became the greatest player ever, yet you'll never hear him say such things.

Take Justine at the French open : it's fair to say she totally owns that tournament, yet you will never hear her say " If I'm playing well nobody can beat me"

I just don't understand why you Serena fans can't accept the fact that she's at times very arrogant and cocky. She's human, therefore she has flaws. And arrogance is one of them. Doesn't mean she's a bitch and all, just that she has flaws.

Roger can't be arrogant, because he still misses RG AND Nadal has been beating him more often than not.

Same with Justine..still misses that Wimby title. Listen, I do agree that sometimes Serena should just let her play do the talking...but then she wouldn't be Serena.

minboy
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:08 PM
So you are saying the better player: LOST??? :eek: :bolt:
Anyone who has seen that match knows that Justine was better tennistically-speaking. Serena was better mentally-speaking.
Justine just said that she was playing better, not that she WAS better. She has said countless times that mental was the most important thing in tennis.

minboy
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:13 PM
Roger can't be arrogant, because he still misses RG AND Nadal has been beating him more often than not.

Same with Justine..still misses that Wimby title. Listen, I do agree that sometimes Serena should just let her play do the talking...but then she wouldn't be Serena.

:lol: :lol: Please cut the crap!!! Federer is not arrogant because he has an humble nature, period. How many slams has he won? 10, 11..? If anyone in the tennis world has the right to be arrogant ( which I don't think anyone has ), that's him.

About Justine : I was talking about Justine AT THE FO!!!! She owns it like nobody has in the last 15 years, yet she has yet to come up and say " Look, if I'm playing well, nobody can beat me "

Read my sig.

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:14 PM
no that would be going too far, but she could say something like

"I believe i'm in with a great chance at winning"

instead of "I'm The Best, Nobody can beat Me"
Try and make you point without lying. Serena said that when she's at her best, she's hard to beat which is the truth.

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Anyone who has seen that match knows that Justine was better tennistically-speaking. Serena was better mentally-speaking.
Justine just said that she was playing better, not that she WAS better. She has said countless times that mental was the most important thing in tennis.

aah ooh aahh..sounds like excuses to me. But ok, in the end it doesn't matter, 'cause the better player always wins.

Maybe Serena needs to this to build her confidence..please don't judge her to hardly.

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:16 PM
:lol: :lol: Please cut the crap!!! Federer is not arrogant because he has an humble nature, period. How many slams has he won? 10, 11..? If anyone in the tennis world has the right to be arrogant ( which I don't think anyone has ), that's him.

About Justine : I was talking about Justine AT THE FO!!!! She owns it like nobody has in the last 15 years, yet she has yet to come up and say " Look, if I'm playing well, nobody can beat me "

Read my sig.

Different people, different natures...not all can be alike.

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:16 PM
Imagine how people would have reacted if Justine had said such a thing before RG.
And your point is?

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:21 PM
Justine was the better player. But she choked and Serena was mentally stronger.
The difference is that the Serena fans don't go around whining that Justine is disrespecting Serena. Anyone that thinks that Serena played anything but awful needs a reality check.

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:27 PM
:lol: :lol: Please cut the crap!!! Federer is not arrogant because he has an humble nature, period. How many slams has he won? 10, 11..? If anyone in the tennis world has the right to be arrogant ( which I don't think anyone has ), that's him.

About Justine : I was talking about Justine AT THE FO!!!! She owns it like nobody has in the last 15 years, yet she has yet to come up and say " Look, if I'm playing well, nobody can beat me "

Read my sig.
I don't recall the outrage when Larry Bird use to say "it ain't bragging when you're winning". Wonder what the difference is?

Onyxangel
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:29 PM
Serena always talks big. She talked big at the French Open as well, but we all know what happened there...
She just need to learn some humility.

This was my earlier point. People are all up in arms about Serena talking trash... She talked some trash before the FO too, and where did that get her? A little trip to crowville. Was anyone hurt, ruined, or abused by her trash talking? Of course not. If she wants to talk trash then let her. It's a free country and the only entity that stands to be negatively affected by it is Serena's pride, so why should anyone else care? Some people like Roger Federer's style, and admittedly it's hard not to... but everyone has their tastes, and there is nothing to say that any one taste is better than others. Nothing wrong with Rena's style for many people either... if you don't like it, then either develop a taste for it or don't sample it (pay attention to it) at all... either way you'll be happier than you are when you are constantly complaining about it.

Lulu.
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Do your thang Serena :yeah:

Onyxangel
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Wait, what exactly is everyone complaining about? "If I play my best it is hard to beat me" ? Is that really that far-fetched. "I am the best" ? Is she supposed to say "No, Maria is the best"? Stop being stupid. If all of you had the confidence that you suggest Serena should have, then you'd all be losers... :tape: nevermind.

It could be argued by fans of Federer (and before him Sampras) that such talk is not necessary to actually be the best... and it cetainly doesn't mean you are a loser if you don't talk like that.

minboy
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:38 PM
I don't recall the outrage when Larry Bird use to say "it ain't bragging when you're winning".

NBA is american-only( at the time anyway ), so I'm not surprised there wasn't any outrage when he said that ( I don't know anything of it to be honest but I trust you )
Tennis is worldwide, internet is worldwide.
Maybe it will surprise you, but in most countries accross the globe, quotes like these will come across as very arrogant. A matter of mentality I guess.

pipolestreinch
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:40 PM
we all know juju wil trash miss annoying

minboy
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Different people, different natures...not all can be alike.
Absolutely.
Everyone is different and everybody has flaws.
Federer has flaws, Justine has flaws, and Serena has some as well. I just don't understand why some Serena-fans act like she never does or says anything wrong, because everyone does anyway!!

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:43 PM
It could be argued by fans of Federer (and before him Sampras) that such talk is not necessary to actually be the best... and it cetainly doesn't mean you are a loser if you don't talk like that.

Are you joking? Federer's confidence is more subtle but it is there in a big way. And Sampras, now he is border-line arrogant. He is the self-declared "best." I was just watching his Center Court and he was annoying me so much with his confidence that I had to change the channel.

pipolestreinch
Jun 24th, 2007, 02:44 PM
lol @ Offical retard and troll

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:06 PM
Absolutely.
Everyone is different and everybody has flaws.
Federer has flaws, Justine has flaws, and Serena has some as well. I just don't understand why some Serena-fans act like she never does or says anything wrong, because everyone does anyway!!

Exactly....and the first lesson is: Look at yourself first.

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:06 PM
This was my earlier point. People are all up in arms about Serena talking trash... She talked some trash before the FO too, and where did that get her? A little trip to crowville. Was anyone hurt, ruined, or abused by her trash talking? Of course not. If she wants to talk trash then let her. It's a free country and the only entity that stands to be negatively affected by it is Serena's pride, so why should anyone else care? Some people like Roger Federer's style, and admittedly it's hard not to... but everyone has their tastes, and there is nothing to say that any one taste is better than others. Nothing wrong with Rena's style for many people either... if you don't like it, then either develop a taste for it or don't sample it (pay attention to it) at all... either way you'll be happier than you are when you are constantly complaining about it.
you've got a good rep. coming. :worship::worship::worship:

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:10 PM
NBA is american-only( at the time anyway ), so I'm not surprised there wasn't any outrage when he said that ( I don't know anything of it to be honest but I trust you )
Tennis is worldwide, internet is worldwide.
Maybe it will surprise you, but in most countries accross the globe, quotes like these will come across as very arrogant. A matter of mentality I guess.
Since you don't know anything about Larry Bird then the post wasn't for you. I'm also aware that you know Serena is an American so people that don't like it just needs to suck it up, cause Rena ain't changing.

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:14 PM
Absolutely.
Everyone is different and everybody has flaws.
Federer has flaws, Justine has flaws, and Serena has some as well. I just don't understand why some Serena-fans act like she never does or says anything wrong, because everyone does anyway!!
Because this Serena fan doesn't think she's being arrogant.

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:35 PM
Since you don't know anything about Larry Bird then the post wasn't for you. I'm also aware that you know Serena is an American so people that don't like it just needs to suck it up, cause Rena ain't changing.
I don't think Serena represents america, because there are many good things from America, like the ideas of liberty, equality, the right to bear arms and so on. Not even including that America has kept the peace since the second world war, and stood down communism.

If the Serena fans don't like our criticism, they don't have to read it. If she makes comments in the public domain in such poor taste, there's bound to be criticism.

And if you don't like our comments, you have the right to express yourself, and we have the right to ignore you and carry on with whatever criticism we want to make.

Allez.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:38 PM
I don't think serena represents america, because there are many good things from america, like the ideas of liberty, equality, the right to bear arms and so on.

If the Serena fans don't like our criticism, they don't have to read it. Instead they are asking us to shut up. That's called fascism, which is what the founding fathers of america fought against and wrote the constitution to guard against.

In case you don't know your own history.

The Founding Fathers, the same people who wrote the Constitution to gaurentee liberty, were the same people that owned slaves. America was the same country that oppressed black people for over three centuries. You seemed to want to skip over that part. Serena is a great representative for America. Her and her sister came from Compton and dominated an expensive white sport. She shows that in America you can almost accomplish anything. She is a philanthropist, a gracious loser, and an apparently humble person. I would not be dissapointed if people in other countries thought that all Americans were like her.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:44 PM
And no one asked you to stop expressing yourself; we are just arguing with you. So basically you are asking us to stop exercising our freedom of speech by not arguing with you. Kind of hyprocritical.

plantman
Jun 24th, 2007, 03:44 PM
Everytime Serena opens her mouth lately it reminds me of that part in
the Madonna song Sorry "Ive heard it all before" lol

:lol: :lol:

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:08 PM
The Founding Fathers, the same people who wrote the Constitution to gaurentee liberty, were the same people that owned slaves. America was the same country that oppressed black people for over three centuries. You seemed to want to skip over that part. Serena is a great representative for America. Her and her sister came from Compton and dominated an expensive white sport. She shows that in America you can almost accomplish anything. She is a philanthropist, a gracious loser, and an apparently humble person. I would not be dissapointed if people in other countries thought that all Americans were like her.Sorry, but you don't know your own history. Firstly, african slaves were sold to the whites by their own kind, that is africans. Secondly, many of the founding fathers were against slavery and this was one of the factors besides economics that your civil war was fought over, where more white americans died than in any other war america had.
I'm so sorry the europeans and whites used blacks as slaves but many other races were not done well by the whites also, look at the chinese sold as "coolies" to work in america. Not to say how your democratic party started the vietnam war and murdered more than 2 million vietnamese civilians during the conflict.
I am against Serena simply because she makes very arrogant and ungracious comments when she loses. Period.
If that is how you want other people to see americans as, I am very sorry for you.
The american military sacrificing and suffering in iraq is a much better representative of the value of america than this disrespectful sportswoman.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:17 PM
Sorry, but you don't know your own history. Firstly, african slaves were sold to the whites by their own kind, that is africans. Secondly, many of the founding fathers were against slavery and this was one of the factors besides economics that your civil war was fought over, where more white americans died than in any other war america had.
I'm so sorry the europeans and whites used blacks as slaves but many other races were not done well by the whites also, look at the chinese sold as "coolies" to work in america. Not to say how your democratic party started the vietnam war and murdered more than 2 million vietnamese civilians during the conflict.
I am against Serena simply because she makes very arrogant and ungracious comments when she loses. Period.
If that is how you want other people to see americans as, I am very sorry for you.
The american military sacrificing and suffering in iraq is a much better representative of the value of america than this disrespectful sportswoman.

So the treatment of blacks during slavery and the Civil Rights movement was justified because Africans sold them to the whites? So the Civil War was originally about liberating the slaves and after the Civil War everything was dandy? The points you make are irrelevent and do not prove that America is just a place where liberty and equality were the foundation of the country.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:17 PM
I'm done repsonding to you becasue I don't want you to embarass yourself anymore. :rolls:

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:21 PM
Yeah, sure you don't watch it.

No, I don't agree and who's chunky and ugly, you? What "tremendous beating down"? Justine didn't beat her 6-0 6-1, she beat her 6-3 6-4. That's not a beat down, it's a decent win.

Serena doesn't win anything by boasting. She walks the walk. At least she doesn't lie and cheat, and subject her opponents to gamesmanship. I think Justine will have a tough time, if she doesn't feign illness.Nope, it's a beatdown for sure, that's why Serena complained that she felt VIOLATED after the match. She couldn't even boast anymore. That simply confirms it.
In any case, Serena looks set to suffer another humiliating beatdown and VIOLATION on the grass, so if you can't take it, simply switch over to the WWF channel.
Allez!

Donatello
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:25 PM
Sorry, but you don't know your own history. Firstly, african slaves were sold to the whites by their own kind, that is africans.

You act like you were there. Going about a minor detail just to dismiss the broader event.
There was such a thing as slavery, and it help make define the US, Serena is undoubtly an extension of it, like every other Afro-American is, period.

Now please shut up, you already pissed me of about this one comment.

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:25 PM
So the treatment of blacks during slavery and the Civil Rights movement was justified because Africans sold them to the whites? So the Civil War was originally about liberating the slaves and after the Civil War everything was dandy? The points you make are irrelevent and do not prove that America is just a place where liberty and equality were the foundation of the country.Sigh, another american that does not understand the history and politics of her own country.
Anyway good luck for your Serena on the grass. I like Venus, she seems like a much nicer person than her younger sister.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:27 PM
Sigh, another american that does not understand the history and politics of her own country.
Anyway good luck for your Serena on the grass. I like Venus, she seems like a much nicer person than her younger sister.

So explain to me how I don't. You're a Justine fan... that explains alot. :haha:

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:28 PM
You act like you were there. Going about a minor detail just to dismiss the broader event.
There was such a thing as slavery, and it help make define the US, Serena is undoubtly an extension of it, like every other Afro-American is, period.

Now please shut up, you already pissed me of about this one comment.The truth is not nice to hear, no? Forget that detail? That africans sold their own kind as slaves to the whites? If they hadn't done that, maybe there would have been less slavery? Is that a small enough detail for you? So you want me to shut up like your personal slave? Why don't you shut up instead?

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:31 PM
So explain to me how I don't. You're a Justine fan... that explains alot. And you're a Serena fan. That explains even more. Why don't you explain to me why you don't think Serena makes arrogant comments in interviews?

Onyxangel
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:32 PM
You act like you were there. Going about a minor detail just to dismiss the broader event.
There was such a thing as slavery, and it help make define the US, Serena is undoubtly an extension of it, like every other Afro-American is, period.

Now please shut up, you already pissed me of about this one comment.

As are you, captain hypocrite. Neither Serena nor any of us were there either. So stop embarrassing yourself with a race card that had nothing to do with you.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:35 PM
The truth is not nice to hear, no? Forget that detail? That africans sold their own kind as slaves to the whites? If they hadn't done that, maybe there would have been less slavery? Is that a small enough detail for you? So you want me to shut up like your personal slave? Why don't you shut up instead?

I just don't understand were you are going with that? I forget what we were arguing about.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:40 PM
Oh ok, you said that Serena did not represent America with its ideals of liberty and equality because she was "arrogant."... and then I tried to enlighten you by saying that the Founding Fathers that you mentioned owned slaves who were mistreated severly. So you tell me, was the mistreatment of blacks in America justified because they were sold to the whites by the African kings? Second question; do you consider this mistreatment as "ideas of liberty, equality" which you mentioned in your post? Yes or no. No equivocating or saying stupid things to lead everyone astray.

fioredeliberi
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:46 PM
Ahh, let's call it a night. I'll talk later if I have the mood to. Too much digression from tennis. We'll see how the players we support do tomorrow and good luck to all of you.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:49 PM
Ahh, let's call it a night. We'll see how the players we support do tomorrow and good luck to all of you.

:haha: Ok good night. :rolleyes:










Checkmate. :p

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:53 PM
So one Serena quote and we get a whole lesson in history?? That blacks have themselves to blame for being slaves in America?? Hmmm...what's next? Apartheid in South Africa..I guess the black people have themselves to blame for that one too, huh??

bandabou
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:54 PM
Ah the coward went away and hide...

Onyxangel
Jun 24th, 2007, 04:56 PM
Oh ok, you said that Serena did not represent America with its ideals of liberty and equality because she was "arrogant."... and then I tried to enlighten you by saying that the Founding Fathers that you mentioned owned slaves who were mistreated severly. So you tell me, was the mistreatment of blacks in America justified because they were sold to the whites by the African kings? Second question; do you consider this mistreatment as "ideas of liberty, equality" which you mentioned in your post? Yes or no. No equivocating or saying stupid things to lead everyone astray.

I'll interject here as a history major... These principles were intended for everybody by the founding fathers, and the only reason that blacks did not get them right away is because the southern states would not join the union if the initial principles that were set to include blacks were not altered to exclude blacks... the civil war was actually about 100 years coming, as many of our founding fathers knew that eventually it would come to it since it was inevitable that the principles of our country would eventually have to relate to blacks since they were people too. You also have to remember that blacks were not considered slave class due to their skin color until well after colonial america had been established, but was still under British rule. Many blacks owned impressive estates in large areas of places like Virgina, at which point people with black skin were not viewed as slaves, only slaves were viewed as slaves. The whole black oppression due to skin color was created later on by those seeking to take the land owned by the black men. With powerful friends in the colonial government (pre-US), they were able to change it. From a historical perspective, the US has done away with it's slave issues far more quickly than just about every other culture in existence... and just about every culture has had slave issues, including black African cultures.

sunset
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:03 PM
"I'm always confident, but I'm feeling really confident this week. The best Serena always shows up when I'm healthy and I'm feeling pretty healthy."

:yawn:
we heard it all before Serena. She really does have some self-belief issues if she feels the need to constantly harp on the fact that she's the "best," "greatest," blah blah blah.

She's like that annoying kid in school who goes around after every test to ask what everyone got and then is like, "oh, I got higher!" But if they got lower then you they're all like, "Oh, I had a headache and didn't study at all!"

That was usually a sign of some self-worth issues, and it looks the same here.

You hit the nail right on the head. This kind of attitude will be her undoing. She still does't get it. Knowbody cares. :lol: :lol:
I can't wait to see her knocked out cold. :bounce: :bounce:

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:09 PM
I'll interject here as a history major... These principles were intended for everybody by the founding fathers, and the only reason that blacks did not get them right away is because the southern states would not join the union if the initial principles that were set to include blacks were not altered to exclude blacks... the civil war was actually about 100 years coming, as many of our founding fathers knew that eventually it would come to it since it was inevitable that the principles of our country would eventually have to relate to blacks since they were people too. You also have to remember that blacks were not considered slave class due to their skin color until well after colonial america had been established, but was still under British rule. Many blacks owned impressive estates in large areas of places like Virgina, at which point people with black skin were not viewed as slaves, only slaves were viewed as slaves. The whole black oppression due to skin color was created later on by those seeking to take the land owned by the black men. With powerful friends in the colonial government (pre-US), they were able to change it. From a historical perspective, the US has done away with it's slave issues far more quickly than just about every other culture in existence... and just about every culture has had slave issues, including black African cultures.

So what is your point in releveance to the discussion? Although the Founding Fathers advocated liberty and equality, they still condoned slavery. And during the Civil rights movement, it didn't matter how rich you were. The southerners did not want equality. They even killed whites who advocated it. People who were not slaves were considered not slaves because they had gained there freedom- but that didn't change the color of their skin. I don't think that you are trying to deny or justify slavery and descrimination like the other guy, so I'll stop here.

Onyxangel
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:10 PM
You hit the nail right on the head. This kind of attitude will be her undoing. She still does't get it. Knowbody cares. :lol: :lol:
I can't wait to see her knocked out cold. :bounce: :bounce:

First of all, it's "Nobody", not "Knowbody". If you happen to be a non-english speaking foriegner then my apologies for the correction.

Secondly, if nobody cared, then there wouldn't be multiple threads like this going multiple pages now would there? Apparently, a lot of people care.

Onyxangel
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:14 PM
So what is your point in releveance to the discussion?

These are answers to the questions that were asked concerning the principles of our government. They have very little to do with the thread, but neither does the entirity of this slavery discussion.

Onyxangel
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:15 PM
All I know is that there was slavery and descrimination in America based on race- its as simple as that.

Fair enough.

supergrunt
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:20 PM
These are answers to the questions that were asked concerning the principles of our government. They have very little to do with the thread, but neither does the entirity of this slavery discussion.

This conversation did get out of hand :tape: but it didn't have to be slavery; it could have been the oppression of women or mistreatment of Chinese people or even Middle-Eastern people today. He said that Serena did not represnt the Founding Fathers' and America's principles and I was just trying to show that they are really nothing more than ideals.

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:31 PM
I don't think Serena represents america, because there are many good things from America, like the ideas of liberty, equality, the right to bear arms and so on. Not even including that America has kept the peace since the second world war, and stood down communism.

If the Serena fans don't like our criticism, they don't have to read it. If she makes comments in the public domain in such poor taste, there's bound to be criticism.

And if you don't like our comments, you have the right to express yourself, and we have the right to ignore you and carry on with whatever criticism we want to make.

Allez.
How old are you? :help:

plantman
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:50 PM
How old are you? :help:

Obviously old enough to understand history correctly!

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 05:54 PM
You hit the nail right on the head. This kind of attitude will be her undoing. She still does't get it. Knowbody cares. :lol: :lol:
I can't wait to see her knocked out cold. :bounce: :bounce:
I figured it was about time for you got another weekend pass. I guess the new meds are working pretty good. Congratulations.:clap2:

The kind of attitude that you're referring to is the attitude that has caused Serena to win 8 grand slams. That kind of attitude is what allowed Serena to be out with injuries, to come from #139 in ranking and beat the number 1 and number 2 AND win the Australian Open. That kind of attitude is what makes you go run and hide after Serena kicks behinds. That kind of attitude is what keeps you eating crow on a regular basis. This is the kind of attitude that makes me love me some Serena. :lol::lol::lol:

I think you like the taste of crow 'cause you keep coming back for more.

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 06:07 PM
Obviously old enough to understand history correctly!
:eek:

spice_of_life
Jun 24th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Serena... http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/images/smilies/stfu.gif

Of course now if she doesn't win it she can fall back on the "I wasn't 100%" bullshit. :rolleyes:

gentle
Jun 24th, 2007, 06:29 PM
I hope Serena dies on court rather than gets beaten again by Henin!

plantman
Jun 24th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Serena... http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/images/smilies/stfu.gif

Of course now if she doesn't win it she can fall back on the "I wasn't 100%" bullshit. :rolleyes:

Welcome to the board spice_of_life..........:)

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 07:10 PM
I hope Serena dies on court rather than gets beaten again by Henin!
Oh please, it's just one tournament, not the end of the world.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:39 PM
yeah, thats why she circles the marks unsure calls on clay... but well thats a totally different story.

:weirdo: Everybody does that on clay.

i just want her to feel good about herself without having to say these things. they are totally useless. and as far as i am concerned everybody reads many topics on players that they dont like as much, you gotta stay informed. but its always the same with serena lately. :rolleyes:

It's always the same with every player. If you want her to feel good about herself, then let her do it her way...not yours. It's not your place to judge anybody on their actions.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:45 PM
this is the same for many players, if they lose then it wasn't their best match, obviously because the first requirement of it being their best match is actually winning???

She didn't say it wasn't her best match. She said she didn't fight and play well. Other players can play their best and still not win against better players. Serena is saying when she plays her best, it's hard to beat her. Which is true. Do you see the distinction?

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:47 PM
no that would be going too far, but she could say something like

"I believe i'm in with a great chance at winning"

instead of "I'm The Best, Nobody can beat Me"

It's obvious people read what they want to read. Please stop misquoting her. She didn't say, "I'm the best, nobody can beat me". She said, ""I think I'm still the best player out there when I'm playing well"..."When I'm playing well, it's hard for anyone to beat me ... it's just a fact. I don't think that anybody who has to play me goes home and shouts for joy."

Do you see the distinction here?

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:48 PM
Imagine how people would have reacted if Justine had said such a thing before RG.

Imagine if Serena displayed the same gamesmanship tactics that Justine does?

heytennis
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:50 PM
Serena always talks big and doesn't give credit to her opponents. Nothing has changed, nothing will ever change. I dont see why we need to discuss it, it's how she keeps her ego after losses. Big deal.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:52 PM
I would have agreed with Justine because on clay at her best she´s unbeatable.

:lol: at this thread still going while it´s a duplicate of the ´Williams is ready to fight hard´ thread. It´s like Serena is not allowed to be confident when she has earned the right to be having the most slams of any active player and being the most succesful one on all surfaces.

Also a lot op people are running their mouth before comprehensively reading what Serena said because they just love to bash her. She said that when she´s playing her best nobody can beat her. Anyone who saw the Wimbledon 2002 final and the OZ 2007 final knows she´s right. Besides this attitude is what makes her a champion and I hope she will keep it until the end of her playing days.

It takes a strong personality to overcome everything that Serena has overcome and I think she should be commended for it instead of being condemned. But hey I guess old habits die hard and a lot of people will continue to bash her instead of giving her the credit she deserves.
The negative attention is quite telling tough about her status as the best active player of this generation.

I agree with you, but she didn't say "when she's playing her best nobody can beat her", she said, ""I think I'm still the best player out there when I'm playing well,"..."When I'm playing well, it's hard for anyone to beat me ... it's just a fact. I don't think that anybody who has to play me goes home and shouts for joy."

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 09:56 PM
:tape:

Just take Federer : he's on his way to became the greatest player ever, yet you'll never hear him say such things.

Take Justine at the French open : it's fair to say she totally owns that tournament, yet you will never hear her say " If I'm playing well nobody can beat me"

I just don't understand why you Serena fans can't accept the fact that she's at times very arrogant and cocky. She's human, therefore she has flaws. And arrogance is one of them. Doesn't mean she's a bitch and all, just that she has flaws.

So does Federer, and most especially Justine. If we are going to judge flaws, I'd say Justine has the worst and should be ashamed of the things she's done oncourt. At least Serena's boasting doesn't effect the outcome of matches, Justine's gamesmanship has. So, let's not throw stones, shall we.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:00 PM
Anyone who has seen that match knows that Justine was better tennistically-speaking. Serena was better mentally-speaking.

Hmmm, interesting choice of "words". In the first set she was the better player, but I wouldn't say that in the second and third set. If that was the case, she would have won the match...no? She lost two sets. How is that the better player? It's not like Serena got lucky and won because her fairy godmother came down and magically handed her the score.

Justine just said that she was playing better, not that she WAS better. She has said countless times that mental was the most important thing in tennis.

No she didn't, she said, "I was the better player". You can't read her mind, so you don't know what she intended when she said that.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:04 PM
Different people, different natures...not all can be alike.

:haha: Yeah, like Justine is some bastion of tennis etiquette. :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:08 PM
Absolutely.
Everyone is different and everybody has flaws.
Federer has flaws, Justine has flaws, and Serena has some as well. I just don't understand why some Serena-fans act like she never does or says anything wrong, because everyone does anyway!!

If you understand that, then I don't understand why you feel the need to complain about Serena's flaws. Do you complain about Justine's flaws as fervently?

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Denise.....
*z-snap*

Thanks for holding down the fort against the all of the :bs: while I was away. :yeah: It's so obvious that they want to put words in Ree's mouth, because well hey, :shrug: they can't take the trophies off of her shelf, so why not make her sound more confident than she already is right ;)

Funny thing is, my mom thinks Serena needs more confidence. She said, she needs to hang out with Laila Ali :eek::scared::unsure:, now THAT would be :drool:

Oh well, win or lose, she's still got more Wimbledon title than anyone else not in her family, so I think that entitles her to talk as big as she wants. She's done what she's needed to do.

And again, to all of you who are hard of "reading" (since technically you can't "hear" anything), Serena said it's DIFFICULT to beat her when she playing her best, not impossible. There have been matches where she's lost while playing well, I'll admit that, :shrug: but they're few and far between.

Australian Open QF 2001
Berlin Final 2002
US Open QF 2004 (she had some help losing that one, but she played well)

so don't give me that, "she thinks she's unbeatable mess." Sorry :wavey:

plantman
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:11 PM
Hmmm, interesting choice of "words". In the first set she was the better player, but I wouldn't say that in the second and third set. If that was the case, she would have won the match...no? She lost two sets. How is that the better player? It's not like Serena got lucky and won because her fairy godmother came down and magically handed her the score.



No she didn't, she said, "I was the better player". You can't read her mind, so you don't know what she intended when she said that.

In all fairness Denise, neither can you!

Stamp Paid
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:11 PM
Denise.....
*z-snap*

Reggie :haha:

saki
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:23 PM
I don't understand why people get so het up about this stuff. Every top player has their own way of psyching themselves up for big tournaments/matches. I suspect that the only way to win on the big stage is to believe that you're the best and that the match is in your hands. I think Carlos has been trying to get Justine to believe the same thing - I think one of his notes to her said as much.

For me, what's important is the tennis. If saying this kind of stuff helps Serena to do her thing on court, I'm all for it because Serena in full flight is something that all tennis fans should enjoy.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:41 PM
Sorry, but you don't know your own history. Firstly, african slaves were sold to the whites by their own kind, that is africans. Secondly, many of the founding fathers were against slavery and this was one of the factors besides economics that your civil war was fought over, where more white americans died than in any other war america had.
I'm so sorry the europeans and whites used blacks as slaves but many other races were not done well by the whites also, look at the chinese sold as "coolies" to work in america. Not to say how your democratic party started the vietnam war and murdered more than 2 million vietnamese civilians during the conflict.
I am against Serena simply because she makes very arrogant and ungracious comments when she loses. Period.
If that is how you want other people to see americans as, I am very sorry for you.
The american military sacrificing and suffering in iraq is a much better representative of the value of america than this disrespectful sportswoman.

LOL, it's obvious you are the one who knows nothing about our history. Not only were slaves sold by Africans to Americans, but Americans and Europeans also hunted and captured slaves.

"Within the space of four hundred years millions of people were forcibly taken from Africa as slaves. The majority of them went to the Americas, although many were taken to the Middle East and North Africa.

Slavery had been practised all over the world for thousands of years, but never before had so many people from one continent been transported to another against their will.

It is hard to be precise, but around 15 million Africans in total were forcibly taken from the continent into slavery."

Secondly, every single founding father, including Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slave owners. And, the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with the civil war. The Civil war was based solely on economics, the sale of cotton and tobacco. The southern states were capitalizing economically on the markets with free labor and Lincoln declared that the US could not endure being half free and half slave. The freedom of slaves was not because it was wrong to have human beings as slaves, because blacks were not thought of as human beings, but as chattel. The freedom of slaves was about the northern states not being able to compete with the south on an economic level.

The reason why more white Americans died in that war, is because no blacks were allowed to fight. The black regiments, except for the 54th, were used to pillage and destroy southern plantations, as pack mules and basically as slaves to make it easier for the white soldiers to fight.

Also, the democratic party did not start the war between North and South Vietnam. The US entered an ongoing conflict between the north and south Vietnamese to support the South in 1954 during the Eisenhower presidency, a republican party administration. The US sent advisors to South Vietnam as early as 1950.

You don't honestly think that Americans in Iraq are not killing innocents. There are always casualties of war. How sweet it must be to be so young and ignorant. :rolleyes:

Serena is a prime example of America. She and her sister are the epitome of what America stands for and that is that anyone in America can overcome all odds to be successful. They are not prostitutes, they don't commit crimes, they are not unwed mothers, they haven't killed anyone, they don't do drugs, they've been educated and they play great tennis. If they are not good examples of Americans, then I don't know who is.

And for your information, America is the most arrogant country in the world. To invade a country, because you don't like the politics and governmental structure is the epitome of arrogance. So, if you think Serena is arrogant, she's only being what it is to be American.

Donny
Jun 24th, 2007, 10:56 PM
The reason why more white Americans died in that war, is because no blacks were allowed to fight. The black regimens, except for the 44th, were used to pillage and destroy southern plantations, as pack mules and basically as slaves to make it easier for the white soldiers to fight.

.


Great post Denise, but something to add: In the Civil War, African-Americans, then 14 percent of the population, were 20 percent of the Union casualties. They actually paid a higher price to win that war than whites did.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Nope, it's a beatdown for sure, that's why Serena complained that she felt VIOLATED after the match. She couldn't even boast anymore. That simply confirms it.
In any case, Serena looks set to suffer another humiliating beatdown and VIOLATION on the grass, so if you can't take it, simply switch over to the WWF channel.
Allez!

Can you read minds? Because if you can't, you have no idea what Serena meant saying that she felt violated. She could have meant that because she didn't fight to win that match, she was violated. Because, all Justine had to do was show up for the match to win it and Serena said the very same thing. If you watched the match, and maybe you didn't because the WWF was probably on, but if you did, you saw that Justine didn't do anything special to win. She only played her game, which is all she had to do. And, I've already told you that that scoreline does not reflect a beat down in any fashion. But, maybe tennis is new to you and you really don't know anything but professional wrestling.

You have a right to your opinion though about the upcoming Wimbledon match up between Justine and Serena, if Justine can make it past the first round. I'm sure that during yet another Serena beat down of Justine at Wimbledon, your plan is to switch to the the WWF. At least it will be more compatible to your mentality.

:wavey:

No.1Hingis
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:20 PM
I wouldnt say she is wrong .. or right.. this is her best surface.. this just expose her at the critics if she doesnt make it.. but if she does .. well.. she will be able to repeat this once and ag.. Im just saying she wanna to the risk and the prize of talk how's she is talking.. I dont see anything wrong on bother a bit Henin.. finally the best will leave the court with the best statement.. is interesting.. is she needs this to give the show we know she can on grass-- fighting and giving everything ag Justine.. it will be just thankful.. worth it to hear her..

mykarma
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:29 PM
LOL, it's obvious you are the one who knows nothing about our history. Not only were slaves sold by Africans to Americans, but Americans and Europeans also hunted and captured slaves.

"Within the space of four hundred years millions of people were forcibly taken from Africa as slaves. The majority of them went to the Americas, although many were taken to the Middle East and North Africa.

Slavery had been practised all over the world for thousands of years, but never before had so many people from one continent been transported to another against their will.

It is hard to be precise, but around 15 million Africans in total were forcibly taken from the continent into slavery."

Secondly, every single founding father, including Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slave owners. And, the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with the civil war. The Civil war was based solely on economics, the sale of cotton and tobacco. The southern states were capitalizing economically on the markets with free labor and Lincoln declared that the US could not endure being half free and half slave. The freedom of slaves was not because it was wrong to have human beings as slaves, because blacks were not thought of as human beings, but as chattel. The freedom of slaves was about the northern states not being able to compete with the south on an economic level.

The reason why more white Americans died in that war, is because no blacks were allowed to fight. The black regimens, except for the 44th, were used to pillage and destroy southern plantations, as pack mules and basically as slaves to make it easier for the white soldiers to fight.

Also, the democratic party did not start the war between North and South Vietnam. The US entered an ongoing conflict between the north and south Vietnamese to support the South in 1954 during Eisenhower presidency. The US sent advisors to the South Vietnamese as early as 1950.

You don't honestly think that Americans in Iraq are not killing innocents. There are always casualties of war. How sweet it must be to be so young and igorant. :rolleyes:

Serena is a prime example of America. She and her sister are the epitome of what America stands for and that is that anyone in America can overcome all odds to be successful. They are not prostitutes, they don't commit crimes, they are not unwed mothers, they haven't killed anyone, they don't do drugs, they've been educated and they play great tennis. If they are not good examples of Americans, then I don't know who is.

And for your information, America is the most arrogant country in the world. To invade a country, because you don't like the politics and governmental structure is the epitome of arrogance. So, if you think Serena is arrogant, she's only being what it is to be American.
DAMN GIRL. :worship::worship::worship:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:30 PM
I'll interject here as a history major... These principles were intended for everybody by the founding fathers, and the only reason that blacks did not get them right away is because the southern states would not join the union if the initial principles that were set to include blacks were not altered to exclude blacks... the civil war was actually about 100 years coming, as many of our founding fathers knew that eventually it would come to it since it was inevitable that the principles of our country would eventually have to relate to blacks since they were people too. You also have to remember that blacks were not considered slave class due to their skin color until well after colonial america had been established, but was still under British rule. Many blacks owned impressive estates in large areas of places like Virgina, at which point people with black skin were not viewed as slaves, only slaves were viewed as slaves. The whole black oppression due to skin color was created later on by those seeking to take the land owned by the black men. With powerful friends in the colonial government (pre-US), they were able to change it. From a historical perspective, the US has done away with it's slave issues far more quickly than just about every other culture in existence... and just about every culture has had slave issues, including black African cultures.

But, if you know anything about history and sociology, you know that the treatment of slaves in Africa and America (pre U.S.) was totally different from the treatment of slaves during and after the colonial period (post US).

Are you kidding that the US has done away with it's slave issues??? :eek: Blacks are still feeling the effects of slavery in the 21th century. If you don't know this, you need only look at the educational and economical differences between whites and blacks in the US. Why do you think that people from different countries can come to the US and become successful and blacks are still living in poverty? It's called societal conditioning that stems from the effects of slavery and Jim Crow in this country.

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:31 PM
First of all, it's "Nobody", not "Knowbody". If you happen to be a non-english speaking foriegner then my apologies for the correction.

Secondly, if nobody cared, then there wouldn't be multiple threads like this going multiple pages now would there? Apparently, a lot of people care.

Even if he is a non-english speaking foreigner, why are you apologizing for correcting him? :confused:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:33 PM
Obviously old enough to understand history correctly!

If you think that, then you're just as dumb as he is about American history. :help:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:34 PM
I figured it was about time for you got another weekend pass. I guess the new meds are working pretty good. Congratulations.:clap2:

The kind of attitude that you're referring to is the attitude that has caused Serena to win 8 grand slams. That kind of attitude is what allowed Serena to be out with injuries, to come from #139 in ranking and beat the number 1 and number 2 AND win the Australian Open. That kind of attitude is what makes you go run and hide after Serena kicks behinds. That kind of attitude is what keeps you eating crow on a regular basis. This is the kind of attitude that makes me love me some Serena. :lol::lol::lol:

I think you like the taste of crow 'cause you keep coming back for more.

:spit: :haha: :haha: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Serena always talks big and doesn't give credit to her opponents. Nothing has changed, nothing will ever change. I dont see why we need to discuss it, it's how she keeps her ego after losses. Big deal.

If that's the case, then why are you posting in this thread? :weirdo:

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:37 PM
Sorry Justin, I gotta do it again

*z-snap*

Denise is workin' OVERTIME baby! :worship:

Get'em!

Denise4925
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:39 PM
[/B]

In all fairness Denise, neither can you!

Never said I could.

G1Player2
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:43 PM
LOL, it's obvious you are the one who knows nothing about our history. Not only were slaves sold by Africans to Americans, but Americans and Europeans also hunted and captured slaves.

"Within the space of four hundred years millions of people were forcibly taken from Africa as slaves. The majority of them went to the Americas, although many were taken to the Middle East and North Africa.

Slavery had been practised all over the world for thousands of years, but never before had so many people from one continent been transported to another against their will.

It is hard to be precise, but around 15 million Africans in total were forcibly taken from the continent into slavery."

Secondly, every single founding father, including Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slave owners. And, the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with the civil war. The Civil war was based solely on economics, the sale of cotton and tobacco. The southern states were capitalizing economically on the markets with free labor and Lincoln declared that the US could not endure being half free and half slave. The freedom of slaves was not because it was wrong to have human beings as slaves, because blacks were not thought of as human beings, but as chattel. The freedom of slaves was about the northern states not being able to compete with the south on an economic level.

The reason why more white Americans died in that war, is because no blacks were allowed to fight. The black regimens, except for the 44th, were used to pillage and destroy southern plantations, as pack mules and basically as slaves to make it easier for the white soldiers to fight.

Also, the democratic party did not start the war between North and South Vietnam. The US entered an ongoing conflict between the north and south Vietnamese to support the South in 1954 during Eisenhower presidency. The US sent advisors to the South Vietnamese as early as 1950.

You don't honestly think that Americans in Iraq are not killing innocents. There are always casualties of war. How sweet it must be to be so young and igorant. :rolleyes:

Serena is a prime example of America. She and her sister are the epitome of what America stands for and that is that anyone in America can overcome all odds to be successful. They are not prostitutes, they don't commit crimes, they are not unwed mothers, they haven't killed anyone, they don't do drugs, they've been educated and they play great tennis. If they are not good examples of Americans, then I don't know who is.

And for your information, America is the most arrogant country in the world. To invade a country, because you don't like the politics and governmental structure is the epitome of arrogance. So, if you think Serena is arrogant, she's only being what it is to be American.

I haven't had alot of time to read and post as of late but :worship: :worship: And I am with mrserenawilliams z snap times infinity for this post.

plantman
Jun 24th, 2007, 11:59 PM
Never said I could.

Quote:
Justine just said that she was playing better, not that she WAS better. She has said countless times that mental was the most important thing in tennis.

You responded.....

No she didn't, she said, "I was the better player". You can't read her mind, so you don't know what she intended when she said that.

Looks to me like you're saying that you know without a doubt what she meant! :confused:

Denise4925
Jun 25th, 2007, 12:06 AM
I don't understand why people get so het up about this stuff. Every top player has their own way of psyching themselves up for big tournaments/matches. I suspect that the only way to win on the big stage is to believe that you're the best and that the match is in your hands. I think Carlos has been trying to get Justine to believe the same thing - I think one of his notes to her said as much.

For me, what's important is the tennis. If saying this kind of stuff helps Serena to do her thing on court, I'm all for it because Serena in full flight is something that all tennis fans should enjoy.

I have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, so you are definitely due a good rep for this wonderfully objective and intelligent post. :worship: :worship: :worship: I appreciate it most because it comes from a Justine fan and normally I don't say bad things about other players and I know I've said some bad things about Justine in retaliation to some stupid posters here, but I apologize to you and other Justine fans like you if I offended you in anyway by what I said about Justine. Kudos to you.

Denise4925
Jun 25th, 2007, 12:15 AM
Quote:
Justine just said that she was playing better, not that she WAS better. She has said countless times that mental was the most important thing in tennis.

You responded.....

No she didn't, she said, "I was the better player". You can't read her mind, so you don't know what she intended when she said that.

Looks to me like you're saying that you know without a doubt what she meant! :confused:

Well maybe you're blind, because I quoted exactly what she said. In no part of my post am I speculating as to what she meant when she said that.

heytennis
Jun 25th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Africans aren't the only people to have been enslaved so lets not get into a history discussion. How did this thread get so crazy :lol:

Serena can say whatever she wants to say, she's obviously doing something right.

mykarma
Jun 25th, 2007, 12:33 AM
If you think that, then you're just as dumb as he is about American history. :help:
You're on a roll my sista.

plantman
Jun 25th, 2007, 12:40 AM
Well maybe you're blind, because I quoted exactly what she said. In no part of my post am I speculating as to what she meant when she said that.

You implicated as much!

Denise4925
Jun 25th, 2007, 12:50 AM
You implicated as much!

I didn't implicate anyone, nor did I imply anything by quoting what she said and telling someone else they couldn't possibly know her intent when she made the statement.

Onyxangel
Jun 25th, 2007, 01:00 AM
Are you kidding that the US has done away with it's slave issues??? :eek: Blacks are still feeling the effects of slavery in the 21th century. If you don't know this, you need only look at the educational and economical differences between whites and blacks in the US. Why do you think that people from different countries can come to the US and become successful and blacks are still living in poverty? It's called societal conditioning that stems from the effects of slavery and Jim Crow in this country.

The educational and economical differences are not limited to blacks Denise, if you look around you'll see plenty of non-blacks affected by such issues. Were they victimized by slavery? While there is admittedly a proportional gap in the social structure that is no doubt stemming from slavery, the system is now in place that blacks have all of the opportunities that anyone else does... hence, the slavery issue is gone... If you want to discuss the sociallogical issue we still have, then we can do that... but that's what it is at this point.

Onyxangel
Jun 25th, 2007, 01:03 AM
Even if he is a non-english speaking foreigner, why are you apologizing for correcting him? :confused:

Because in that case, his English is a hell of a lot better than my version of his language (unless he is German), which would make me seem hypocritical to myself.

Tennisaddict
Jun 25th, 2007, 01:08 AM
I agree with you, but she didn't say "when she's playing her best nobody can beat her", she said, ""I think I'm still the best player out there when I'm playing well,"..."When I'm playing well, it's hard for anyone to beat me ... it's just a fact. I don't think that anybody who has to play me goes home and shouts for joy."

Yep, I knew the quote was a bit different but I didn´t have time to reread the article at the time. It still amazes me how Serena speaking her mind realistically about her chances in matches makes people go crazy and flood her threads. She has a lot of starpower and I´m loving it.

Tennisaddict
Jun 25th, 2007, 01:20 AM
LOL, it's obvious you are the one who knows nothing about our history. Not only were slaves sold by Africans to Americans, but Americans and Europeans also hunted and captured slaves.

"Within the space of four hundred years millions of people were forcibly taken from Africa as slaves. The majority of them went to the Americas, although many were taken to the Middle East and North Africa.

Slavery had been practised all over the world for thousands of years, but never before had so many people from one continent been transported to another against their will.

It is hard to be precise, but around 15 million Africans in total were forcibly taken from the continent into slavery."

Secondly, every single founding father, including Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slave owners. And, the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with the civil war. The Civil war was based solely on economics, the sale of cotton and tobacco. The southern states were capitalizing economically on the markets with free labor and Lincoln declared that the US could not endure being half free and half slave. The freedom of slaves was not because it was wrong to have human beings as slaves, because blacks were not thought of as human beings, but as chattel. The freedom of slaves was about the northern states not being able to compete with the south on an economic level.

The reason why more white Americans died in that war, is because no blacks were allowed to fight. The black regimens, except for the 44th, were used to pillage and destroy southern plantations, as pack mules and basically as slaves to make it easier for the white soldiers to fight.

Also, the democratic party did not start the war between North and South Vietnam. The US entered an ongoing conflict between the north and south Vietnamese to support the South in 1954 during Eisenhower presidency. The US sent advisors to the South Vietnam as early as 1950.

You don't honestly think that Americans in Iraq are not killing innocents. There are always casualties of war. How sweet it must be to be so young and igorant. :rolleyes:

Serena is a prime example of America. She and her sister are the epitome of what America stands for and that is that anyone in America can overcome all odds to be successful. They are not prostitutes, they don't commit crimes, they are not unwed mothers, they haven't killed anyone, they don't do drugs, they've been educated and they play great tennis. If they are not good examples of Americans, then I don't know who is.

And for your information, America is the most arrogant country in the world. To invade a country, because you don't like the politics and governmental structure is the epitome of arrogance. So, if you think Serena is arrogant, she's only being what it is to be American.

First of all :hatoff: to your post. Very insightful.

Wasn´t Bob Marley´s song ´Buffalo Soldier´ about the blacks in the Civil War?

Denise4925
Jun 25th, 2007, 01:28 AM
The educational and economical differences are not limited to blacks Denise, if you look around you'll see plenty of non-blacks affected by such issues. Were they victimized by slavery? While there is admittedly a proportional gap in the social structure that is no doubt stemming from slavery, the system is now in place that blacks have all of the opportunities that anyone else does... hence, the slavery issue is gone... If you want to discuss the sociallogical issue we still have, then we can do that... but that's what it is at this point.

If you're talking about technically, the slavery issue was settled when Lincoln declared the slaves free. I said it's a societal condition that stems from slavery. You understand that blacks were not allowed to be educated in any form for 400 years. Then you have segregation and Jim Crow laws that stemmed from institutionalized slavery that just ended 40 years ago.

What opportunities are you talking about? When you have blacks still living in areas of cities where the education system is poor to say the least, one parent homes, two parents working to scrap a living together and not being there to help with bringing up their children, a liquor store on every corner, drug dealers, gangs and shootings and then if they make it past all that to get a decent secondary education and/or higher education, they still have to deal with that invincible glass ceiling that is in place for blacks and nepotism. A system, if you will, firmly in place to prevent blacks from succeeding in this country. Yes, many have overcome these obstacles, but the disadvantages of just being black are severly disproportionate to the advantages of just being white in this country and having the same education as their black peers and succeding further in a particular industry. Also, even if blacks do have the same opportunities as whites in this country, in most cases they don't have the opportuntities to take advantage of the same opportunities offered to their white counter-parts.

Denise4925
Jun 25th, 2007, 01:33 AM
First of all :hatoff: to your post. Very insightful.

Wasn´t Bob Marley´s song ´Buffalo Soldier´ about the blacks in the Civil War?

They were created by congress as a peacetime all black regiment in the US Army after the civil war.

homogenius
Jun 25th, 2007, 01:46 AM
If you're talking about technically, the slavery issue was settled when Lincoln declared the slaves free. I said it's a societal condition that stems from slavery. You understand that blacks were not allowed to be educated in any form for 400 years. Then you have segregation and Jim Crow laws that stemmed from institutionalized slavery that just ended 40 years ago.

What opportunities are you talking about? When you have blacks still living in areas of cities where the education system is poor to say the least, one parent homes, two parents working to scrap a living together and not being there to help with bringing up their children, a liquor store on every corner, drug dealers, gangs and shootings and then if they make it past all that to get a decent secondary education and/or higher education, they still have to deal with that invincible glass ceiling that is in place for blacks and nepotism. Yes, many have overcome these obstacles, but the disadvantages of just being black are severly disproportionate to the advantages of just being white in this country and having the same education as their black peers and succeding further in a particular industry. Also, even if blacks do have the same opportunities as whites in this country, in most cases they don't have the opportuntities to take advantage of the same opportunities offered to their white counter-parts.

Some Hispanics (just for the example) are living in the same social and economic conditions and are facing the same obstacles : what is the link with slavery ?
Also, even if I can agree with you on some things, it's America.As you said yourself, everyone can ovecome all odds to be succesfull.If Richard Williams was able to do that with his daughters, why not the others ?

Denise4925
Jun 25th, 2007, 03:06 AM
Some Hispanics (just for the example) are living in the same social and economic conditions and are facing the same obstacles : what is the link with slavery ?
Also, even if I can agree with you on some things, it's America.As you said yourself, everyone can ovecome all odds to be succesfull.If Richard Williams was able to do that with his daughters, why not the others ?

There are a lot of groups living in the same socio-economical conditions. If you're talking about mexican americans, look at the state of Mexico's economy. Depending on how their forefathers came to this country, depends on how well they may do in this country. There are a myriad of reasons why other groups do not fair well in this country. However, the reason why blacks have historically not done well as a majority in this country is a direct link to slavery since our origins in this country from it's formation has been slavery.

I'm not saying others can't overcome the odds, I'm saying it's very difficult and there are a lot of factors working against them and those factors are a direct result of the effects of slavery in America.

azinna
Jun 25th, 2007, 04:40 AM
I do, as a fan, wish Serena would just get her game on without giving the media and her opponents something to chew on. When she was at her most imperious, she simply steamrolled and said what she said -- "I haven't even reached my peak." or "I want to go undefeated." -- afterwards, post-display, if you will.

Still, if you focus just on her quotes, there's nothing actually arrogant being said. Serena is a very intelligent and well-spoken woman; and from re-reading her quotes you should see that her words are very well chosen, communicating confidence, her honest opinion and that she could lose to a great opponent even when playing her best. The media is obviously selecting, framing and inflating her responses; the least folks could do, without access to a transcript of the full interview, is not let themselves get duped.

And for those making the Federer comparison; you obviously have not spent much time on boards dedicated to men's tennis. He's said not only pretty much the same thing ("If I'm playing well, I'm very hard to beat."), but stuff that has been described by many as arrogant. I don't agree, but they have an argument when they say Federer gets many a free pass from the media, who often frame what he says in ways much different to what they do with Serena's words.

Denise4925
Jun 25th, 2007, 06:43 AM
Africans aren't the only people to have been enslaved so lets not get into a history discussion. How did this thread get so crazy :lol:


Nobody said they were, but Africans were the only people to have been legally enslaved in the US.

hollywood7172
Jun 25th, 2007, 06:45 AM
i personally think serena has earned every right to talk big. kudos to her. and i hope she beats henin in 2 sets (then lose to ivanovic, hahaha)

peace ya'll.

Donatello
Jun 25th, 2007, 07:55 AM
As are you, captain hypocrite. Neither Serena nor any of us were there either. So stop embarrassing yourself with a race card that had nothing to do with you.

I'm not embarrassing myself. I just wonder how Africa is not a competitive economic force when they sold massive amounts of people during a significant period in history.

Back to the topic.

Well, never mind, I'm done with this.

Experimentee
Jun 25th, 2007, 08:11 AM
The article is misleading. If you look at what she actually says, she says that it is hard for anyone to beat her, not that no one can beat her.

Onyxangel
Jun 25th, 2007, 10:16 AM
If you're talking about technically, the slavery issue was settled when Lincoln declared the slaves free. I said it's a societal condition that stems from slavery. You understand that blacks were not allowed to be educated in any form for 400 years. Then you have segregation and Jim Crow laws that stemmed from institutionalized slavery that just ended 40 years ago.

What opportunities are you talking about? When you have blacks still living in areas of cities where the education system is poor to say the least, one parent homes, two parents working to scrap a living together and not being there to help with bringing up their children, a liquor store on every corner, drug dealers, gangs and shootings and then if they make it past all that to get a decent secondary education and/or higher education, they still have to deal with that invincible glass ceiling that is in place for blacks and nepotism. A system, if you will, firmly in place to prevent blacks from succeeding in this country. Yes, many have overcome these obstacles, but the disadvantages of just being black are severly disproportionate to the advantages of just being white in this country and having the same education as their black peers and succeding further in a particular industry. Also, even if blacks do have the same opportunities as whites in this country, in most cases they don't have the opportuntities to take advantage of the same opportunities offered to their white counter-parts.

So, if you're saying that it's a racial issue, then what changes would you make so that only blacks that live in such an unfortunate environment would benefit from it? And how would you justify such changes? If your ideas for change would not only help blacks, but everyone in such a situation, then it's obviously not a racial issue, but a sociallogical one... as I said.

Lindsayfan32
Jun 25th, 2007, 11:32 AM
The joke will be o Serena when it doesn't happen again. If Serena and Justine make the quarters Justine will do the French open all over again and heck I hope Alicia wins tonight and then beats her in the second round if that happened it would make my year. :lol:

bandabou
Jun 25th, 2007, 11:38 AM
Oh..somebody's missing Lindsay..:sad:

Denise4925
Jun 26th, 2007, 04:50 AM
So, if you're saying that it's a racial issue, then what changes would you make so that only blacks that live in such an unfortunate environment would benefit from it? And how would you justify such changes? If your ideas for change would not only help blacks, but everyone in such a situation, then it's obviously not a racial issue, but a sociallogical one... as I said.

But the issue was not to fix it, the issue was whether the slavery issue was extinguished and I said it wasn't. I'll reiterate, all you need do is look at the plight of the black American and still see the effects of slavery. Something that lasts 400 years effecting generations of people, doesn't just get fixed overnight and it will probably never be fixed. That is why fixing it is not the issue. As I said, there are many other cultures in the same position, but there are a myriad of reasons for that. One of the main reasons for this condition for the entire black popluation in America is the effects of slavery and it is a societal condition for blacks...as I said.

fioredeliberi
Jun 26th, 2007, 06:10 AM
Ah, the "culture of victimology", thus I must always be given a free pass and treated even better with unfair advantages over the rest.
Living in such a great country with so many opportunities for freedom and self-improvement, I'd say the slavery issue is a closed one.
Let's not also forget that it was the Democratic party that supported and set out the Jim Crow laws and the GOP that opposed those laws. Also, under the Bush Admin, you had Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice as the highest black civil servants ever. Nothing like that ever in the DNC, which is basically a racist, elitist party that pretends to be otherwise.
One thing that is very tiring is how some people keep on harping about things that happened hundreds of years ago and use it to justify demanding unfair privileges and advantages for themselves. Lots of other races have suffered even worse, like the 2 million vietnamese civilians who got killed in vietnam. Do the vietnamese bitch and moan and demand special privileges because of their past?

fioredeliberi
Jun 26th, 2007, 06:37 AM
LOL, it's obvious you are the one who knows nothing about our history. Not only were slaves sold by Africans to Americans, but Americans and Europeans also hunted and captured slaves.

"Within the space of four hundred years millions of people were forcibly taken from Africa as slaves. The majority of them went to the Americas, although many were taken to the Middle East and North Africa.

Slavery had been practised all over the world for thousands of years, but never before had so many people from one continent been transported to another against their will.

It is hard to be precise, but around 15 million Africans in total were forcibly taken from the continent into slavery."

Secondly, every single founding father, including Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slave owners. And, the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with the civil war. The Civil war was based solely on economics, the sale of cotton and tobacco. The southern states were capitalizing economically on the markets with free labor and Lincoln declared that the US could not endure being half free and half slave. The freedom of slaves was not because it was wrong to have human beings as slaves, because blacks were not thought of as human beings, but as chattel. The freedom of slaves was about the northern states not being able to compete with the south on an economic level.

The reason why more white Americans died in that war, is because no blacks were allowed to fight. The black regiments, except for the 54th, were used to pillage and destroy southern plantations, as pack mules and basically as slaves to make it easier for the white soldiers to fight.

Also, the democratic party did not start the war between North and South Vietnam. The US entered an ongoing conflict between the north and south Vietnamese to support the South in 1954 during the Eisenhower presidency, a republican party administration. The US sent advisors to South Vietnam as early as 1950.

You don't honestly think that Americans in Iraq are not killing innocents. There are always casualties of war. How sweet it must be to be so young and ignorant.

Serena is a prime example of America. She and her sister are the epitome of what America stands for and that is that anyone in America can overcome all odds to be successful. They are not prostitutes, they don't commit crimes, they are not unwed mothers, they haven't killed anyone, they don't do drugs, they've been educated and they play great tennis. If they are not good examples of Americans, then I don't know who is.

And for your information, America is the most arrogant country in the world. To invade a country, because you don't like the politics and governmental structure is the epitome of arrogance. So, if you think Serena is arrogant, she's only being what it is to be American.Your history grade is still "fail". I see that you have discovered that many of the slaves were actually sold by africans to whites. In fact to be a "legal" slave, this was the correct way, somebody, usually another african, had to sell you to the big bad white slave trader.
Next your intepretation of the civil war seems rather like the WWF version of it. Nope, it wasn't that way, no matter how you want to see it in your own skewed way. I guess in your world, everything black is good and everything white is bad.
Can't get more racist than that.
First time you read abt vietnam, right? Go back and read it again. It was started and prosecuted by then hawkish Democratic Party who did not know how to end it. After killing 2 million vietnamese civilians and going nowhere, finally the GOP found a way to end it. You are living in dreamland if you think the GOP started it. Go back and look at who ordered in the troops, who ordered the buildup, and who thought it was a great idea to go into vietnam. And also see how Johnson was so beaten down that he did not even dare stand again for election. Sending in a few lightly armed advisors is different from sending hundreds of thousands of troops, in case you are not aware of the warmongering past of the DNC.

But now, the US military in iraq is doing a difficult but honourable job to fight against the problems of islamic militancy and they should have your support instead of your denigration.

They will make our world safer, protect the US dollar, ensure the free flow of oil, and also incidentally bring women's rights and human rights to the barbaric middle east. Those rights like democracy, religious freedom and equality, which slaves didn't have last time.

How old are you? You truly sound like someone who doesn't have a clue about reality.

Denise4925
Jun 26th, 2007, 07:04 AM
Ah, the "culture of victimology", thus I must always be given a free pass and treated even better with unfair advantages over the rest.
Living in such a great country with so many opportunities for freedom and self-improvement, I'd say the slavery issue is a closed one.
Let's not also forget that it was the Democratic party that supported and set out the Jim Crow laws and the GOP that opposed those laws. Also, under the Bush Admin, you had Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice as the highest black civil servants ever. Nothing like that ever in the DNC, which is basically a racist, elitist party that pretends to be otherwise.
One thing that is very tiring is how some people keep on harping about things that happened hundreds of years ago and use it to justify demanding unfair privileges and advantages for themselves. Lots of other races have suffered even worse, like the 2 million vietnamese civilians who got killed in vietnam. Do the vietnamese bitch and moan and demand special privileges because of their past?

Oh my, must you go there again? :lol:

Must I expose your ignorance about our history once again? Well, okay but I'll make it short this time.

First of all, no one is asking for a free pass or unfair advantages, just an equal playing field.

The slavery issue is only closed to closed minded people such as yourself, who refuse to see reality.

The Democratic party you speak of is not the Democratic party of today. Those Democrats were former Republicans, who were called the Redeemers, a political coalition in the Southern states who sought to overthrow what they called the Radical Republicans. They felt the Republicans during that time had violated true Republican principals. While in power, they dramatically cut government spending, cut public aid and reduced support for public education. Sound familiar?? :hehehe:

When Bill Clinton was elected president in 1992, Ron Brown (a black man) was DNC chairman and Clinton later named him Secretary of Commerce. Bill Clinton also had Mike Espy (a black man), Alexis Herman (a black woman), Rodney Slater (a black man), and Hazel O'Leary (a black woman), in his cabinets as president during his two terms. He had the most diverse cabinet in the history of the presidency. That's your racist, elitist Democratic party. :rolleyes:

Were the 2 million Vietnamese civilians killed on US soil? Oh, I didn't think so. So, they would have no grounds to demand anything from the US government. :weirdo:

young_gunner913
Jun 26th, 2007, 07:20 AM
The joke will be o Serena when it doesn't happen again. If Serena and Justine make the quarters Justine will do the French open all over again and heck I hope Alicia wins tonight and then beats her in the second round if that happened it would make my year. :lol:

yeah we'll prepare for your year to be a crappy one. cause not only can serena beat alicia with one hand tied behind her back, she can certainly kick the crap of justine just the same way or even more so.

Denise4925
Jun 26th, 2007, 07:33 AM
Your history grade is still "fail". I see that you have discovered that many of the slaves were actually sold by africans to whites. In fact to be a "legal" slave, this was the correct way, somebody, usually another african, had to sell you to the big bad white slave trader.
Next your intepretation of the civil war seems rather like the WWF version of it. Nope, it wasn't that way, no matter how you want to see it in your own skewed way. I guess in your world, everything black is good and everything white is bad.
Can't get more racist than that.

:confused:
Instead of making accusatory, speculative, imaginative and delusionary statements, why not try some facts. Everything I said, including what I said about the Civil War, was fact. Now, if you can dispute what I said with facts of your own, be my guest.

If it wasn't the way I stated, then what way was it? And, where did I say everything black is good and everything white is bad? :weirdo:

First time you read abt vietnam, right? Go back and read it again. It was started and prosecuted by then hawkish Democratic Party who did not know how to end it. After killing 2 million vietnamese civilians and going nowhere, finally the GOP found a way to end it. You are living in dreamland if you think the GOP started it. Go back and look at who ordered in the troops, who ordered the buildup, and who thought it was a great idea to go into vietnam. And also see how Johnson was so beaten down that he did not even dare stand again for election. Sending in a few lightly armed advisors is different from sending hundreds of thousands of troops, in case you are not aware of the warmongering past of the DNC.

:smash:
First of all, it was an ongoing conflict and the US didn't start the civil war between North and South Vietnam. US troops, along with our allies, were deployed to help the South Vietnamese in 1954 during the First Indochina War. In 1956, the US trained the Army of the Republic of Vietnam. The American Vietnam War, also called the Second Indochina War, began in 1959. When President Kennedy (a Democratic president) was elected in 1961, he increased troop numbers. Dwight D. Eisenhower (a Republican) was president from 1953-1961. :help:

But now, the US military in iraq is doing a difficult but honourable job to fight against the problems of islamic militancy and they should have your support instead of your denigration.

Where did I denigrate the troops in Iraq?

They will make our world safer, protect the US dollar, ensure the free flow of oil, and also incidentally bring women's rights and human rights to the barbaric middle east. Those rights like democracy, religious freedom and equality, which slaves didn't have last time.

:lol: They are getting killed by the truckload. I would ask you questions on how all of these things are going to happen, but I'm afraid you would answer. :help:

How old are you? You truly sound like someone who doesn't have a clue about reality.

Obviously, much older and wiser and definitely more educated. :tape:

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2007, 09:02 AM
Sorry, but you don't know your own history. Firstly, african slaves were sold to the whites by their own kind, that is africans. Secondly, many of the founding fathers were against slavery and this was one of the factors besides economics that your civil war was fought over, where more white americans died than in any other war america had.
I'm so sorry the europeans and whites used blacks as slaves but many other races were not done well by the whites also, look at the chinese sold as "coolies" to work in america. Not to say how your democratic party started the vietnam war and murdered more than 2 million vietnamese civilians during the conflict.
I am against Serena simply because she makes very arrogant and ungracious comments when she loses. Period.
If that is how you want other people to see americans as, I am very sorry for you.
The american military sacrificing and suffering in iraq is a much better representative of the value of america than this disrespectful sportswoman.

So one Serena quote and we get a whole lesson in history?? That blacks have themselves to blame for being slaves in America?? Hmmm...what's next? Apartheid in South Africa..I guess the black people have themselves to blame for that one too, huh??

Onyxangel
Jun 26th, 2007, 09:12 AM
But the issue was not to fix it, the issue was whether the slavery issue was extinguished and I said it wasn't. I'll reiterate, all you need do is look at the plight of the black American and still see the effects of slavery. Something that lasts 400 years effecting generations of people, doesn't just get fixed overnight and it will probably never be fixed. That is why fixing it is not the issue. As I said, there are many other cultures in the same position, but there are a myriad of reasons for that. One of the main reasons for this condition for the entire black popluation in America is the effects of slavery and it is a societal condition for blacks...as I said.

You're dodging now... if it is in fact a racial issue, then it should be fixed... and since it's so simple to diagnose the problem, and the diagnosis are ones that are very fixable, then it should be easy to come up with a fair solution that only helps the black people in that situation...

...But you can't... because it's NOT a racial issue... it's a sociallogical one, and you know it now, so you dodge instead. Do you not want to admit it because it makes you wrong, or because you don't want to lose your race-card soapbox on this issue?

DOUBLEFIST
Jun 26th, 2007, 09:31 AM
that is no doubt stemming from slavery[/B], the system is now in place that blacks have all of the opportunities that anyone else does... hence, the slavery issue is gone... If you want to discuss the sociallogical issue we still have, then we can do that...

The flaw in your logic and what you seem to be either willingly or unwittingly over looking is that if, as you say, there is a "proportional gap in the social structure that is NO DOUBT (caps mine) stemming from slavery...", then "the slavery issue" IS NOT gone, by your own logic, simply because that "gap" still exists, and it is the very effects of that "gap" can be traced back to the horrors of slavery.

You have to understand- and this is something that seems to resonate when I explain this to many of my white friends- slavery is still a fresh memory in the collective consciousness of many African Americans. For example, my Father can relate to me conversations he had as a boy with a former slave (his Great Grandfather). Think about that. It's not that far removed.

Onyxangel
Jun 26th, 2007, 11:24 AM
The flaw in your logic and what you seem to be either willingly or unwittingly over looking is that if, as you say, there is a "proportional gap in the social structure that is NO DOUBT (caps mine) stemming from slavery...", then "the slavery issue" IS NOT gone, by your own logic, simply because that "gap" still exists, and it is the very effects of that "gap" can be traced back to the horrors of slavery.

You have to understand- and this is something that seems to resonate when I explain this to many of my white friends- slavery is still a fresh memory in the collective consciousness of many African Americans. For example, my Father can relate to me conversations he had as a boy with a former slave (his Great Grandfather). Think about that. It's not that far removed.

Emotionally, there's no doubt that the slavery / race issue has caused problems that still exist today. The FACT that slavery was the root of many black families being poor is not the problem today... if it were the problem, then you could fix it by ending slavery and /or segregation... but they already did that... so then you could create laws and make programs to make sure that white people can not keep from hiring black people or admitting them to their school... but they've already done that... the system is in place for black people to accomplish whatever they want now, nobody is keeping them down or oppressing them... they just have to do it. I work with a guy who comes from a horrid childhood. He was oppressed by another race and most of his family was killed by them. He spent too much time growing up in a refugee camp until he finally made it to America as a freshman in HS. He was in one of the worst, drug-infested, violence-ridden high schools in the state. He learned that if he did well enough even in that piece of crap school, he could get most of his college paid for... so he taught himself english during his freshman year and graduated 4 years later impressively enough to go to college and get a BS in Electrical Engineering. He now makes good money and has a good life... BTW he's a caucasian from Bosnia who had to flee when the Croats decided to try to rid the world of Bosnians. Nobody here ever gave him a DAMN thing just for being white... and it certainly wasn't his fault that his life sucked so much growing up. But unfair sh1t happens to people of ALL races, not just blacks... and the problem is not how you got there, the problem is that you ARE there... and the answers to solving the problem do not involve bitching about why you are there... if any black person thinks they had to overcome more than the person I've told you about, then you should thank whatever god you pray to that you've made it to where you are that you have the means and ability to sit around reading and messaging on a tennis message board... You should grab your life by the horns and take control of it instead of letting what happened to other people with the same skin color as you years ago control your life for you. Anyway, that's my incredibly long and unecessary post to show why the issues you are talking about today are NOT slavery / race issues, just because they may have stemmed from slavery and racism.

TSequoia01
Jun 26th, 2007, 11:35 AM
You're dodging now... if it is in fact a racial issue, then it should be fixed... and since it's so simple to diagnose the problem, and the diagnosis are ones that are very fixable, then it should be easy to come up with a fair solution that only helps the black people in that situation...

...But you can't... because it's NOT a racial issue... it's a sociallogical one, and you know it now, so you dodge instead. Do you not want to admit it because it makes you wrong, or because you don't want to lose your race-card soapbox on this issue?

John Kennedy attempted to fix the racial issue through the process of Affirmative action. The racial fix was quckly turned into a sociallogical one by including everyone except White men. Even though none were denied humanity by legal edict.

Onyxangel
Jun 26th, 2007, 11:56 AM
John Kennedy attempted to fix the racial issue through the process of Affirmative action. The racial fix was quckly turned into a sociallogical one by including everyone except White men. Even though none were denied humanity by legal edict.

So you agree that it is a sociallogical issue... do you believe AA should be restricted to black people only? If so, how do you justify that belief?

TSequoia01
Jun 26th, 2007, 12:17 PM
So you agree that it is a sociallogical issue... do you believe AA should be restricted to black people only? If so, how do you justify that belief?

My point was, the turning of AA as a solution or fix for hundreds of years of slavery and jim crow into a catch all redress of all societal ills removed its primary focus. This was unfortunate because the African experience in America was unique and should have been uniquely addressed. The United States government legalized and enforced the removal of humanity of a people.

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2007, 12:32 PM
Maybe the bigger question should be: What's up with those caucasians?? Who do they think they are to supress so many races and think that they are the superior one? Blacks, Asians, Latins,etc..you name it and they all have been or are even being supressed right now by the caucasians.

And then caucasian people come and say: Hey...you're not the only with issues. Suck it up and move on???

Langers
Jun 26th, 2007, 01:07 PM
Serena talks big before Wimbledon

By Martyn Herman

LONDON (Reuters) - Serena Williams says nobody will be able to beat her at Wimbledon this year if she hits top form.
Can this loser be ANY more arrogant? :rolleyes:

DA FOREHAND
Jun 26th, 2007, 01:32 PM
Can this loser be ANY more arrogant? :rolleyes:

LOL

Hate the game not the player:lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 26th, 2007, 02:23 PM
I don't recall the outrage when Larry Bird use to say "it ain't bragging when you're winning". Wonder what the difference is?

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: that's such an awesome quote...end of discussion

And just for the record...some people do complain that Federer is arrogant aka his haters

Onyxangel
Jun 26th, 2007, 02:28 PM
Maybe the bigger question should be: What's up with those caucasians?? Who do they think they are to supress so many races and think that they are the superior one? Blacks, Asians, Latins,etc..you name it and they all have been or are even being supressed right now by the caucasians.

And then caucasian people come and say: Hey...you're not the only with issues. Suck it up and move on???

I'm a substantial portion of Native American. There are members of my family who can't stand white people... and black people got nothing on that part of my family for oppression and hatred. While I certainly understand their feeling that way, it certainly isn't the fault of some 25 year-old white girl or some 28 year old white guy that it happened that way. It would be horribly unfair to hold all white people accountable for the actions of someone like Hitler, just as it would be horribly unfair to hold all black people accountable for someone like Idi Amin (sp?). All races have their good and bad people, and no race should be held to the standard of any particular one or small percentage of that race. Nor is it just caucasion people that say to take responsibilty for your own life (Bill Cosby anyone?). It's sound advice in our society today. Anyone has the opportunity, although for those in the lower class, the road is harder, but it is still there. You think Venus or Serena spend any time struggling to make ends meet in Compton resenting how white people have made their lives too tough to make it? Nope, they're too busy taking charge of their own lives and making great things happen for themselves.

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2007, 03:12 PM
I'm a substantial portion of Native American. There are members of my family who can't stand white people... and black people got nothing on that part of my family for oppression and hatred. While I certainly understand their feeling that way, it certainly isn't the fault of some 25 year-old white girl or some 28 year old white guy that it happened that way. It would be horribly unfair to hold all white people accountable for the actions of someone like Hitler, just as it would be horribly unfair to hold all black people accountable for someone like Idi Amin (sp?). All races have their good and bad people, and no race should be held to the standard of any particular one or small percentage of that race. Nor is it just caucasion people that say to take responsibilty for your own life (Bill Cosby anyone?). It's sound advice in our society today. Anyone has the opportunity, although for those in the lower class, the road is harder, but it is still there. You think Venus or Serena spend any time struggling to make ends meet in Compton resenting how white people have made their lives too tough to make it? Nope, they're too busy taking charge of their own lives and making great things happen for themselves.

Did I say that blacks should lay down crying?? I only say: some things never change. You say we should get up and take charge.

It's just funny than when the few black champs we have had do just that: take charge, make something happen...and what they get?

called arrogant, booed in their home-country, called non-talent just ball bashers with no talent, etc.. by a mostly CAUCACIAN audience. That's when I think to myself: that's what they want us to do...they let us "free", gave us "equal" opportunities, etc...but they want us to feel inferior.. But thanks to Bob Marley we know what to do: Nobody can control our mind. So they can suck it. We'll just keep doing what we gotta do.

rjd1111
Jun 26th, 2007, 03:16 PM
A lot of negative responses to what she said.

Then tell me, which players do you think looks at the schedule and sees Serena's name vs theirs do shout in joy.

Donny
Jun 26th, 2007, 03:22 PM
I'm a substantial portion of Native American. There are members of my family who can't stand white people... and black people got nothing on that part of my family for oppression and hatred. While I certainly understand their feeling that way, it certainly isn't the fault of some 25 year-old white girl or some 28 year old white guy that it happened that way. It would be horribly unfair to hold all white people accountable for the actions of someone like Hitler, just as it would be horribly unfair to hold all black people accountable for someone like Idi Amin (sp?). All races have their good and bad people, and no race should be held to the standard of any particular one or small percentage of that race. Nor is it just caucasion people that say to take responsibilty for your own life (Bill Cosby anyone?). It's sound advice in our society today. Anyone has the opportunity, although for those in the lower class, the road is harder, but it is still there. You think Venus or Serena spend any time struggling to make ends meet in Compton resenting how white people have made their lives too tough to make it? Nope, they're too busy taking charge of their own lives and making great things happen for themselves.


This debate is still going on? I'll guess I'll chime in.

There is an underpiveliged class (blacks) in America. For more than a century following reconstruction, blacks have been worse off than the white majority. Now, in order for their to be an underclass, there have to be an overclass- a group that benefits from the disadvantages of the underclass. Whites still reap the benefits of slavery- the capitol in Washington DC was created by slaves. Much of the National Mall was made from stone quarried by slaves, carried to the Mall by slaves, and shaped by slaves. This goes for many buildings created during that period.

Fleet bank, one of the largest banks in the world, got it's name fro mnaval fleets- it began as a bank that insured slave ships. Much of their cpaital came from dealings with people who enslaved innocent people. In my eyes, they are no better than Swiss banks that dealt with Nazis.

Brown University was founded by slave owners. Much of the work done on campus was done by slaves. And the list goes on.

There are people who were made wealthy from slavery, a crime against humanity, while the ancestors of these slaves get nothing. I don't think that's fair, and it should be corrected.

What's funniest to me though, is how self defeating America is. Blacks make up half of the prison population. Every African American in prison costs taxpayers $35,000 a year. Simply paying 20 grand to give these same men education and job training before they end up in jail would save America hundreds of millions of dollars every year.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 26th, 2007, 03:23 PM
A lot of negative responses to what she said.

Then tell me, which players do you think looks at the schedule and sees Serena's name vs theirs do shout in joy.

They light a candle:tape: :help:

Onyxangel
Jun 26th, 2007, 03:49 PM
Did I say that blacks should lay down crying?? I only say: some things never change. You say we should get up and take charge.

It's just funny than when the few black champs we have had do just that: take charge, make something happen...and what they get?

called arrogant, booed in their home-country, called non-talent just ball bashers with no talent, etc.. by a mostly CAUCACIAN audience. That's when I think to myself: that's what they want us to do...they let us "free", gave us "equal" opportunities, etc...but they want us to feel inferior.. But thanks to Bob Marley we know what to do: Nobody can control our mind. So they can suck it. We'll just keep doing what we gotta do.

Wow... can you count? Of course it will be mostly a caucasion audience doing so... most of the audience is caucasion. They are still the majority in this country after all... If you think that no caucasions boo and jeer caucasion atheletes, then either you have the biggest set of blinders on that the world has ever seen, or you pay no attention to white atheletes. If you looked around real hard you'd actually behold one of the worst kept secrets in society... for every race, including caucasions, it's the obnoxious a$$holes who always sound the loudest. Look around at these boards. Look around in the tennis circles. The WS have quite a number of caucasion fans. Yet you feel free to insinuate (which is exactly what your post is doing)that caucasions are all trying to keep you down, and make your life as tough and miserable as possible, when in reality, very, VERY few of them give a fvck about your life at all, as they are too busy trying to get ahead with their own, and you don't give a fvck about thiers either. You mention the Bob Marley song, and it's funny, because you think it addresses some great white conspiracy to hold you back, and I bet most whites would have no clue what Bob is talking about. If any random caucasion that you never heard of was to succeed in life and someone informed you about it, what would you say? If it were a good day, you might say something like "good for them". On a typical or worse day, you'd probably say something along the lines of "You have me mistaken for someone that gives a crap." Guess what? That's exactly how the vast majority of caucasions would react if they were informed that you were a success in life. As long as you keep generalizing that they're all fixated on your failure, you're no better that those caucasions who keep generlizing that all black people are fixated on stealing their car... you're all simply encouraging a racial divide that spreads like fire with very little effort. There are of course people of all races who are honestly racist who do hope for the downfall of other races... but these are the minorities, and to hold everyone of their race to their standard is simply irresponsible and foolish. Without the support of everyday people like you and me, these people mean nothing anymore. They have no power if you don't give it to them... but if you let them give you a hateful or hurtful view of an entire race with their meaningless BS, then they own you, just like a slave.

cellophane
Jun 26th, 2007, 03:58 PM
Emotionally, there's no doubt that the slavery / race issue has caused problems that still exist today. The FACT that slavery was the root of many black families being poor is not the problem today... if it were the problem, then you could fix it by ending slavery and /or segregation... but they already did that... so then you could create laws and make programs to make sure that white people can not keep from hiring black people or admitting them to their school... but they've already done that... the system is in place for black people to accomplish whatever they want now, nobody is keeping them down or oppressing them... they just have to do it. I work with a guy who comes from a horrid childhood. He was oppressed by another race and most of his family was killed by them. He spent too much time growing up in a refugee camp until he finally made it to America as a freshman in HS. He was in one of the worst, drug-infested, violence-ridden high schools in the state. He learned that if he did well enough even in that piece of crap school, he could get most of his college paid for... so he taught himself english during his freshman year and graduated 4 years later impressively enough to go to college and get a BS in Electrical Engineering. He now makes good money and has a good life... BTW he's a caucasian from Bosnia who had to flee when the Croats decided to try to rid the world of Bosnians. Nobody here ever gave him a DAMN thing just for being white... and it certainly wasn't his fault that his life sucked so much growing up. But unfair sh1t happens to people of ALL races, not just blacks... and the problem is not how you got there, the problem is that you ARE there... and the answers to solving the problem do not involve bitching about why you are there... if any black person thinks they had to overcome more than the person I've told you about, then you should thank whatever god you pray to that you've made it to where you are that you have the means and ability to sit around reading and messaging on a tennis message board... You should grab your life by the horns and take control of it instead of letting what happened to other people with the same skin color as you years ago control your life for you. Anyway, that's my incredibly long and unecessary post to show why the issues you are talking about today are NOT slavery / race issues, just because they may have stemmed from slavery and racism.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

I'm curious... what do you think of affirmative action? Unless I missed your points in the thread.

How the fuck did this thread turn into racial discussions, I don't know, though. :o

Onyxangel
Jun 26th, 2007, 04:14 PM
This debate is still going on? I'll guess I'll chime in.

There is an underpiveliged class (blacks) in America. For more than a century following reconstruction, blacks have been worse off than the white majority. Now, in order for their to be an underclass, there have to be an overclass- a group that benefits from the disadvantages of the underclass. Whites still reap the benefits of slavery- the capitol in Washington DC was created by slaves. Much of the National Mall was made from stone quarried by slaves, carried to the Mall by slaves, and shaped by slaves. This goes for many buildings created during that period.

Fleet bank, one of the largest banks in the world, got it's name fro mnaval fleets- it began as a bank that insured slave ships. Much of their cpaital came from dealings with people who enslaved innocent people. In my eyes, they are no better than Swiss banks that dealt with Nazis.

Brown University was founded by slave owners. Much of the work done on campus was done by slaves. And the list goes on.

There are people who were made wealthy from slavery, a crime against humanity, while the ancestors of these slaves get nothing. I don't think that's fair, and it should be corrected.

What's funniest to me though, is how self defeating America is. Blacks make up half of the prison population. Every African American in prison costs taxpayers $35,000 a year. Simply paying 20 grand to give these same men education and job training before they end up in jail would save America hundreds of millions of dollars every year.

1.)Where do you draw that line? Do you go back to the old world and say that anyone decended from anyone who benefitted at all from slave labor owes people who are decended from slaves? Because you know that's where that would lead. Also, does it stay a racial issue in the event that a company that profitted at some point by slave labor is now owned or partly owned by blacks? And AGAIN, stop generalizing whites... Whites do NOT "reap the benefits of slavery" anymore than blacks reap the benefits of affirmative action. I can prove that ad nauseum. A few people who happen to be white (and don't be too shocked if some of them are other than white) still reap the benefits of slave labor.

2.) You're seriously suggesting that giving $20K to a group of mostly younger men... let's forget about the fact that these men are black or that they wound up in prison, let's just say that they're random men of any race or situation... would ensure that these men would utilize it to get educations and ggod jobs? Seriously? And what about the non-blacks in prison? Do they get 20K to keep them out too? Or do only blacks deserve that opportunity? And if you set it up so that they had to use it for that purpose, do you see where you are heading with that line of reasoning? "Hey Jim, these guys get 20K for education and job training to keep them from becoming criminals..." "Well,it looks like it's time for us to hold up a convenience store Bob."

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2007, 06:39 PM
Wow... can you count? Of course it will be mostly a caucasion audience doing so... most of the audience is caucasion. They are still the majority in this country after all... If you think that no caucasions boo and jeer caucasion atheletes, then either you have the biggest set of blinders on that the world has ever seen, or you pay no attention to white atheletes. If you looked around real hard you'd actually behold one of the worst kept secrets in society... for every race, including caucasions, it's the obnoxious a$$holes who always sound the loudest. Look around at these boards. Look around in the tennis circles. The WS have quite a number of caucasion fans. Yet you feel free to insinuate (which is exactly what your post is doing)that caucasions are all trying to keep you down, and make your life as tough and miserable as possible, when in reality, very, VERY few of them give a fvck about your life at all, as they are too busy trying to get ahead with their own, and you don't give a fvck about thiers either. You mention the Bob Marley song, and it's funny, because you think it addresses some great white conspiracy to hold you back, and I bet most whites would have no clue what Bob is talking about. If any random caucasion that you never heard of was to succeed in life and someone informed you about it, what would you say? If it were a good day, you might say something like "good for them". On a typical or worse day, you'd probably say something along the lines of "You have me mistaken for someone that gives a crap." Guess what? That's exactly how the vast majority of caucasions would react if they were informed that you were a success in life. As long as you keep generalizing that they're all fixated on your failure, you're no better that those caucasions who keep generlizing that all black people are fixated on stealing their car... you're all simply encouraging a racial divide that spreads like fire with very little effort. There are of course people of all races who are honestly racist who do hope for the downfall of other races... but these are the minorities, and to hold everyone of their race to their standard is simply irresponsible and foolish. Without the support of everyday people like you and me, these people mean nothing anymore. They have no power if you don't give it to them... but if you let them give you a hateful or hurtful view of an entire race with their meaningless BS, then they own you, just like a slave.

That's exactly what I said in my post..let them talk, let them do whatever they want...the few of them. Won't care, won't worry about them.

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:05 AM
You're dodging now... if it is in fact a racial issue, then it should be fixed... and since it's so simple to diagnose the problem, and the diagnosis are ones that are very fixable, then it should be easy to come up with a fair solution that only helps the black people in that situation...

...But you can't... because it's NOT a racial issue... it's a sociallogical one, and you know it now, so you dodge instead. Do you not want to admit it because it makes you wrong, or because you don't want to lose your race-card soapbox on this issue?


No, I don't dodge anything and if you've seen me post in this forum you'd know that. However, what I do is try to stick to the issue that we are discussing and not change it because I don't have an answer and come up with impossible questions for the other person to answer. You've totally deflected the issue into something else. You clearly stated that the slave issue was non-existent because a system has been firmly established to offer equal opportunities for all to succeed. I disagreed and gave my reasons why. Instead of rebutting my reasons, you come up with a question that only a white person who doesn't want the stigma of slavery left by his forefathers on his head and who is not in favor of affirmative action would ask. Pardon the pun, but you seem to look at things in black and white and it's not that simple. Yet your mind is so closed to any other way of thinking that might mean you have to look at slavery as a lasting stain imprinted on American society, that you turn a deaf ear and nothing gets resolved. Until you and people like you open your eyes to the root of the problem, the problem will never get "fixed".

Hmmm, my "racecard soapbox"...I contemplated not even dignifying this ignorant comment with a response, but I feel one is due. Let me start off by saying that I'm highly offended by the use of that term, because I think it's a term used by certain non-black people to denigrate and invalidate anything a black person says regarding a racial issue that certain non-black people don't want to face.

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you over who's right and wrong on this issue, but I'm entitled to my opinion, especially if I can back it up with facts, as you are entitled to yours. I'm not going to disrespect you and tell you that you are wrong and accuse you of standing on some non-existent soapbox in defending your opinion. I have far too much class for that, especially if I'm debating something as serious as this issue with someone I used to have respect for, and who I thought had the same respect for me. However, I will say that from my experience as a black woman in America, who wasn't born yesterday, that the plight of blacks in America is a racial and sociological issue that is based on race which stems from the effects of slavery in this country.

Now, as a non-black you're entitled to your opinion on the matter, but you might have a different one if you would just listen and open your mind to what someone, who may be able to impart some knowledge to you, based on their experiences in this country. In doing so, you may be able to broaden your view on the issue and realize it's not as black and white as you want to paint it to be. Because, it's a human condition that cannot be learned in books or looked at and judged from the outside looking in. Dialogues need to be opened up, but that's not possible when you offend and invalidate another person's opinion without bothering to question why they have that opinion.

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:09 AM
The flaw in your logic and what you seem to be either willingly or unwittingly over looking is that if, as you say, there is a "proportional gap in the social structure that is NO DOUBT (caps mine) stemming from slavery...", then "the slavery issue" IS NOT gone, by your own logic, simply because that "gap" still exists, and it is the very effects of that "gap" can be traced back to the horrors of slavery.

You have to understand- and this is something that seems to resonate when I explain this to many of my white friends- slavery is still a fresh memory in the collective consciousness of many African Americans. For example, my Father can relate to me conversations he had as a boy with a former slave (his Great Grandfather). Think about that. It's not that far removed.

No, it's not that far removed. My great grandparents...all four of them...were slaves.

darrinbaker00
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:10 AM
What do you guys think about Serena going first on Court 1 ahead of Federer tomorrow?

G1Player2
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:14 AM
No, I don't dodge anything and if you've seen me post in this forum you'd know that. However, what I do is try to stick to the issue that we are discussing and not change it because I don't have an answer and come up with impossible questions for the other person to answer. You've totally deflected to issue into something else. You clearly stated that the slave issue was non-existent because a system has been firmly established to offer equal opportunities to all to succeed. I disagreed and gave my reasons why. Instead of rebutting my reasons, you come up with a question that only a white person who doesn't want the stigma of slavery left by his forefathers on his head and who is not in favor of affirmative action would ask. Pardon the pun, but you seem to look at things in black and white and it's not that simple. Yet your mind is so closed to any other way of thinking that might mean you have to look at slavery as a lasting stain imprinted on American society, that you turn a deaf ear and nothing gets resolved. Until you and people like you open your eyes to the root of the problem, the problem will never get "fixed".

Hmmm, my "racecard soapbox"...I contemplated not even dignifying this ignorant comment with a response, but I feel one is due. Let me start off by saying that I'm highly offended by the use of that term, because I think it's a term used by certain non-black people to denigrate and invalidate anything a black person says regarding a racial issue that certain non-black people don't want to face.

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you over who's right and wrong on this issue, but I'm entitled to my opinion, especially if I can back it up with facts, as you are entitled to yours. I'm not going to disrespect you and tell you that you are wrong and accuse you of standing on some non-existent soapbox in defending your opinion. I have far too much class for that, especially if I'm debating something as serious as this issue with someone I used to have respect for, and who I thought had the same respect for me. However, I will say that from my experience as a black woman in America, who wasn't born yesterday, that the plight of blacks in America is a racial and sociological issue that is based on race which stems from the effects of slavery in this country.

Now, as a non-black you're entitled to your opinion on the matter, but you might have a different one if you would just listen and open your mind to what someone, who may be able to impart some knowledge to you, based on their experiences in this country. In doing so, you may be able to broaden your view on the issue and realize it's not as black and white as you want to paint it to be. Because, it's a human condition that cannot be learned in books or looked at and judged from the outside looking in. Dialogues need to be opened up, but that's not possible when you offend and invalidate another person's opinion without bothering to question why they have that opinion.

:lol: :worship: :worship: Denise, you're just killing them in this thread. :lol::yeah:

G1Player2
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:15 AM
What do you guys think about Serena going first on Court 1 ahead of Federer tomorrow?

It doesn't bother me. If she isn't hindered by that hamstring injury she'll win.

darrinbaker00
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:20 AM
It doesn't bother me. If she isn't hindered by that hamstring injury she'll win.
You do realize, of course, that was not a serious question. Serena should be able to beat Hana Smorova one-legged, left-handed and blindfolded. I'm just trying to squash this ridiculous racial "discussion."

Bruno71
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:29 AM
You do realize, of course, that was not a serious question. Serena should be able to beat Hana Smorova one-legged, left-handed and blindfolded. I'm just trying to squash this ridiculous racial "discussion."

She should. But she's playing Alicia Molik.

G1Player2
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:30 AM
She should. But she's playing Alicia Molik.

Molik hasn't done anything noteworthy in years. I don't see that changing tomorrow either.

Bruno71
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:32 AM
Molik hasn't done anything noteworthy in years. I don't see that changing tomorrow either.

Serena will win. Though Molik was really serving well yesterday, though that's about all.

darrinbaker00
Jun 27th, 2007, 05:33 AM
She should. But she's playing Alicia Molik.
Alicia Molik? In that case, forget the blindfold. ;)

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:09 AM
the system is in place for black people to accomplish whatever they want now, nobody is keeping them down or oppressing them... they just have to do it.

:haha:

He now makes good money and has a good life... BTW he's a caucasian from Bosnia who had to flee when the Croats decided to try to rid the world of Bosnians. Nobody here ever gave him a DAMN thing just for being white... and it certainly wasn't his fault that his life sucked so much growing up.

:weirdo:

Double :haha:

Nobody judges him by his skin color either and no one is systematically putting obstacles in his way to keep him from succeeding either.

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:19 AM
It would be horribly unfair to hold all white people accountable for the actions of someone like Hitler, just as it would be horribly unfair to hold all black people accountable for someone like Idi Amin (sp?).

See, I knew that was what this was about with you.

resenting how white people have made their lives too tough to make it? Nope, they're too busy taking charge of their own lives and making great things happen for themselves.

LOL, first of all Bill Cosby is an idiot. I just want to get that out. Secondly, no one is saying that blacks are not taking charge of their own lives or being responsible. No one is saying that black people resent white people for anything. What we are saying is that black people are still judged by the color of their skin no matter what they've done or how much they've succeeded or tried to succeed, which is a direct result of slavery. We have to work twice as hard as a white person or even another minority of a different race to get where they are, simply because our skin is black and we are judged and/or resented based on that.

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:21 AM
Did I say that blacks should lay down crying?? I only say: some things never change. You say we should get up and take charge.

It's just funny than when the few black champs we have had do just that: take charge, make something happen...and what they get?

called arrogant, booed in their home-country, called non-talent just ball bashers with no talent, etc.. by a mostly CAUCACIAN audience. That's when I think to myself: that's what they want us to do...they let us "free", gave us "equal" opportunities, etc...but they want us to feel inferior.. But thanks to Bob Marley we know what to do: Nobody can control our mind. So they can suck it. We'll just keep doing what we gotta do.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:24 AM
This debate is still going on? I'll guess I'll chime in.

There is an underpiveliged class (blacks) in America. For more than a century following reconstruction, blacks have been worse off than the white majority. Now, in order for their to be an underclass, there have to be an overclass- a group that benefits from the disadvantages of the underclass. Whites still reap the benefits of slavery- the capitol in Washington DC was created by slaves. Much of the National Mall was made from stone quarried by slaves, carried to the Mall by slaves, and shaped by slaves. This goes for many buildings created during that period.

Fleet bank, one of the largest banks in the world, got it's name fro mnaval fleets- it began as a bank that insured slave ships. Much of their cpaital came from dealings with people who enslaved innocent people. In my eyes, they are no better than Swiss banks that dealt with Nazis.

Brown University was founded by slave owners. Much of the work done on campus was done by slaves. And the list goes on.

There are people who were made wealthy from slavery, a crime against humanity, while the ancestors of these slaves get nothing. I don't think that's fair, and it should be corrected.

What's funniest to me though, is how self defeating America is. Blacks make up half of the prison population. Every African American in prison costs taxpayers $35,000 a year. Simply paying 20 grand to give these same men education and job training before they end up in jail would save America hundreds of millions of dollars every year.

They don't want us here. They don't want to look at us, because it's a guilty and painful reminder of what happened.

fioredeliberi
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:28 AM
First of all, it was an ongoing conflict and the US didn't start the civil war between North and South Vietnam. US troops, along with our allies, were deployed to help the South Vietnamese in 1954 during the First Indochina War. In 1956, the US trained the Army of the Republic of Vietnam. The American Vietnam War, also called the Second Indochina War, began in 1959. When President Kennedy (a Democratic president) was elected in 1961, he increased troop numbers. Dwight D. Eisenhower (a Republican) was president from 1953-1961. I'm glad that you are learning more abt the party you obviously support, but yours is still a fail grade.

About vietnam:
It's obviously your child-like opinion that the GOP started the vietnam war in the 50s, while almost every historian would consider the war as starting with the troop buildup by Kennedy in the 60s, and going into full swing with Johnson.
The US often trains and arms other armies(like in the 50s), that doesn't mean that it is at war. I repeat, the vietnam war was started and prosecuted by the democratic party, period.
The DNC is responsible for the murder of maybe 2M vietnamese civilians.
Along with supporting the Jim Crow laws and also denigrating Condoleeza Rice because she is "not black enough".

About the civil war:
Once again, you say the civil war was fought purely because whites were arguing over money and it had nothing to do with slavery. Well, you are wrong there. Would you have preferred that the war had not been fought at all then? Then blacks would still all be slaves? And who sold your grandparents ancestors as slaves? Other african rulers?

About iraq:
They are getting killed by the truckload. I would ask you questions on how all of these things are going to happen, but I'm afraid you would answer.
When you joke that US soldiers in iraq are being "killed by the truckload", I sure hope you are joking. It really goes to show what sort of american you are, to make that sort of remark, even in jest.

I think you are very young and inexperienced, and for sure(as justine says) history is not one of your strong points. But at least I have got you thinking(though not much), so this isn't a pure waste of time.

I have had very good experiences with black guys in the marines and I also find your venus to be a decent person. It's your serena that is rather offensive and no doubt she will continue to be criticised as long as she runs off at her mouth, much like MacEnroe last time. Both would be poor examples of americans to the rest of the world.

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:30 AM
1.)Where do you draw that line? Do you go back to the old world and say that anyone decended from anyone who benefitted at all from slave labor owes people who are decended from slaves? Because you know that's where that would lead. Also, does it stay a racial issue in the event that a company that profitted at some point by slave labor is now owned or partly owned by blacks? And AGAIN, stop generalizing whites... Whites do NOT "reap the benefits of slavery" anymore than blacks reap the benefits of affirmative action. I can prove that ad nauseum. A few people who happen to be white (and don't be too shocked if some of them are other than white) still reap the benefits of slave labor.

2.) You're seriously suggesting that giving $20K to a group of mostly younger men... let's forget about the fact that these men are black or that they wound up in prison, let's just say that they're random men of any race or situation... would ensure that these men would utilize it to get educations and ggod jobs? Seriously? And what about the non-blacks in prison? Do they get 20K to keep them out too? Or do only blacks deserve that opportunity? And if you set it up so that they had to use it for that purpose, do you see where you are heading with that line of reasoning? "Hey Jim, these guys get 20K for education and job training to keep them from becoming criminals..." "Well,it looks like it's time for us to hold up a convenience store Bob."

I see now, that you're just very delusional when it comes to race and America. You are the one with blinders on. You want so badly for there to be peace and for there to be harmoney and for everything to be peachy keen. You want the reason for blacks not succeeding to their potential, who try to succeed on the same level as whites in this country to be because of their own fault, and because of these fantasies you have, you have deluded yourself into thinking that it's a societal issue and not a race one. You really need to talk to people, because your thinking is not only closed and one sided, it's downright ignorant.

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:33 AM
Yet you feel free to insinuate (which is exactly what your post is doing)that caucasions are all trying to keep you down, and make your life as tough and miserable as possible,

That's not what he said at all, but you haven't bothered to listen. Big surprise :rolleyes:

You mention the Bob Marley song, and it's funny, because you think it addresses some great white conspiracy to hold you back, and I bet most whites would have no clue what Bob is talking about.

Hmmm, I wonder why.

fioredeliberi
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:36 AM
It's very sad, but your sort of attitude is very different from the black americans I know and respect.

Calling Bill Cosby an idiot and joking about american soldiers "being killed by the truckload" in iraq really shows what sort of naive and silly person you are.

Cheers!

Denise4925
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:43 AM
I'm glad that you are learning more abt the party you obviously support, but yours is still a fail grade.

About vietnam:
It's obviously your child-like opinion that the GOP started the vietnam war in the 50s, while almost every historian would consider the war as starting with the troop buildup by Kennedy in the 60s, and going into full swing with Johnson.
The US often trains and arms other armies(like in the 50s), that doesn't mean that it is at war. I repeat, the vietnam war was started and prosecuted by the democratic party, period.
The DNC is responsible for the murder of maybe 2M vietnamese civilians.
Along with supporting the Jim Crow laws and also denigrating Condoleeza Rice because she is "not black enough".

About the civil war:
Once again, you say the civil war was fought purely because whites were arguing over money and it had nothing to do with slavery. Well, you are wrong there. Would you have preferred that the war had not been fought at all then? Then blacks would still all be slaves? And who sold your grandparents ancestors as slaves? Other african rulers?

About iraq:

When you joke that US soldiers in iraq are being "killed by the truckload", I sure hope you are joking. It really goes to show what sort of american you are, to make that sort of remark, even in jest.

I think you are very young and inexperienced, and for sure(as justine says) history is not one of your strong points. But at least I have got you thinking(though not much), so this isn't a pure waste of time.

I have had very good experiences with black guys in the marines and I also find your venus to be a decent person. It's your serena that is rather offensive and no doubt she will continue to be criticised as long as she runs off at her mouth, much like MacEnroe last time. Both would be poor examples of americans to the rest of the world.

:weirdo: