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TeeRexx
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:16 PM
Today marked the death of baseball great Ted Williams and some call it an end to the era of "real baseball" as well. Prior to jackie Robinson's entrance into baseball, some said the game contained pure artistry and mental tactics. Yet when Robinson, a Rhodes scholar, entered this game it suddenly deteriorated into a game of athletic ability and power only. currently Barry Bonds is not considered one of the greatest hitters of all time. Merely a players who can hit home runs, nearly 600 of them at this time. How boring.

Hey, Jack Nicklaus, was dominating the game of golf, a game that had in its written bylaws that only Caucasians may play the game, no one found this time boring. a person named Tiger entered the game of golf, performing the same feats as the great Jack and now, amazingly, the game is getting, you guessed it, "boring".
A pattern is forming perhaps?

During the 70's, women's tennis went through the age of Evert, winning a Grand Slam every year for 13 years, 7 Roland Garros titles and additionl titles at other Grand slam events. Navratilova then took her turn at Grand Slam dominance until Graff seized control winning 22 singles titles during her career. Need I even mention Monica claiming 8 GS titles in about 4-5 years?

Fans thought those were exciting times. heck, I saw a few of these players play in person and I thought it was exciting.

Now we come to a new age of dominance that is beginning in tennis by the Williams and guess what, maniny are now saying the game is so "boring".
TV ratings for women's tennis has nearly tripled, prize money is increasingly rising and the WTA is now more popular than the ATP.

But some of us, including many players, are now oh so bored, sadened and generally pissed off that VENUS and SERENA have figured out how to kick their collective asses.

Oh, their race has nothing to do with it some will say, we like Chanda, not just because we can beat her and she wins no GS titles, it's just that those terrible Williams girls just hit the ball so darned hard and run so fast, that we just can't win anymore.

VENUS and SERENA have single handidly brought down the sport of tennis and Evert, McEnroe and others are dreading the day that Richard brought his 4 year old daughter on that ragged Compton tennis court to hit those flat tennis balls.

Be patient, in 4-6 years the game will no longer be boring and will return to its previous pre-Williams status.

selesrules
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:25 PM
LOL. You are dreaming if you think the Williams dominance will last that long. They will start struggling to win slams very soon just like it happened to Hingis and Davenport.

Meanwhile, Seles is the only person to have beaten a Williams in the last 4 slams. Go Monica! :)

nander
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:59 PM
Well said, TeeRexx, but probably wasted.....you know the old ''pearls before....'.
Most of the posters do not want facts and analysis, ithat is 'boring'

Gumbycat
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:07 PM
On the Money Tee Rexx!

Gumbycat
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:08 PM
Hey Tee Rexx, Serena has over 5300 points with ONLY 12 tournaments....DAYMN!

Sevenseas
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:08 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

TeeRexx
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:16 PM
Thanks nander and Gumbycat. :)

Sevenseas - Good eye exercises. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :)

Asmus
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:18 PM
Good point Tee Rex!

TeeRexx
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:23 PM
Thanks, Asmus.
Things that I say seem to be obvious observations, I believe.

Sevenseas
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:24 PM
Oh, the thing is TeeRexx, I like your humorous pictorial threads more. ;) ( Another eye exercise :) )

TeeRexx
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:26 PM
I glad that you can appreciate some of my unique humor, Sevenseas. :)

Weevee
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:31 PM
Maniny see, maniny do-do!

tennis4life
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:36 PM
Well, let them that subscribe to that theory be bored, as for me, I am having the time of my tennis life and I hope it never ends!

Even though I know some people just hate it when some particular person dominates ( and I am no exception -not a Steffi or Navaratalova fan though, they both were excellent), the constant badgering of the Williams sisters is racism, pure and simple.

Let's see how many people think I am speaking at least as much truth as MacAss....

t4l

irma
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:39 PM
"the constant badgering of the Williams sisters is racism"
I always hated it when people brought it up but I start to think it too, well in some cases at least and that makes me sad :sad:

TeeRexx
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:50 PM
Irma - Bigotry saddens many decent, intelligent people.

Pureracket
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:47 PM
bump

Bezz
Jul 5th, 2002, 11:10 PM
I think one thing that will spice up the williams matches and make tennis less boring at the minute is if they fall out, we need them to have a big argument over something like serena forgetting to put the lid pack on the tooth paste, only then will we see a good match from the sisters.Williams fans have got to realise that we dont not like the williams coz they beat our faves, its coz after they beat our faves they dont have good matches, if serena loses to venus she is probably thinking 'oh well better luck next time well done venus', if any other player in the top 10 loses to venus or serena they hate it, and thats the difference, i wouldnt care if they dominated that much if they played exciting tennis like a hingis-williams or a davenport-williams, i just hope there matches get better :-)

disposablehero
Jul 6th, 2002, 12:32 AM
"Boring" is a great code word for your threads.

"Overheard at Wimbledon: Tee Rexx is STILL boring"

TeeRexx
Jul 6th, 2002, 12:46 AM
DH - Feel free to keep your exciting old ass out of my boring threads.

Bye now. :wavey:

mentos
Jul 6th, 2002, 12:56 AM
Tee Rexx,

On the button!
Athletic
Powerful
and now Boring.
They've come full circle!

persond
Jul 6th, 2002, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by Bezza
I think one thing that will spice up the williams matches and make tennis less boring at the minute is if they fall out, we need them to have a big argument over something like serena forgetting to put the lid pack on the tooth paste, only then will we see a good match from the sisters.Williams fans have got to realise that we dont not like the williams coz they beat our faves, its coz after they beat our faves they dont have good matches, if serena loses to venus she is probably thinking 'oh well better luck next time well done venus', if any other player in the top 10 loses to venus or serena they hate it, and thats the difference, i wouldnt care if they dominated that much if they played exciting tennis like a hingis-williams or a davenport-williams, i just hope there matches get better :-)

You're not going to be satisfied until the Sisters kill each other!!! That's the whole problem in a "nutshell". Well, damn it, they're not Caine and Abel. They are thou Sisters' keeper. You people are down right disgusting. What about you going out and slapping your borther or sister upside the head, will ya!!!

You people are just jealous of their tightly knitted family unit. You can't stand to see and African American family unit that's not about taking it to each other. Enough, already.

mboyle
Jul 6th, 2002, 01:27 AM
Actually, I am quite convinced that no one thinks baseball or golf is boring because an african american excelled at it. Anyone who says Barry is not one of the best hitters of all time is on crack, and the only reason I would ever even consider watching golf is because Tiger Woods is cool. I like the Williams Sisters, but I used to think they were snobbish. Then I realized that they simply got alot of bad press from jealous players (ok I read Venus and Serena by Dave Rineberg, there former coach) but anyway, I like them now but they are not my no. 1 faves. I like watching them play other players, but when they play eachother, so far the matches have been super hyped up, and then I am let down by super easy error fests. BUT BUT BUT (IMPORTANT: DO NOT MISS THIS) I feel that their matches have been gradually improving in quality. For Example, at the US Open, though historical, the match was close to the lowest quality of any grand slam final to date, but the French was not quite as error filled, but still not top notch. I think that this Wimbledon could be their explosive match when they play eachother at full force. But, I will not be disappointed if it is another error spree. My only fear is that people will get over the hype, and not watch the Williams vs. Williams finals anymore. Thus I pray and pray and pray that Vee and Ree get over their mental blocks and play like they do in practice against eachother. If somehow the pressure and guilt were removed, then WOW what a match we would see.

Brian Stewart
Jul 6th, 2002, 01:52 AM
Don't forget, Tee, that Jackie Robinson also introduced the dunk to basketball while at UCLA. What a well-rounded, boring guy he was. :) (Or should that be "totally cubic boring guy"?)

Crazy Canuck
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:01 AM
"the constant badgering of the Williams sisters is racism"

Uh huh.

And the constant badgering that Monica recieved was what? What about the badgering that Hingis has recieved? What was that?

Or how about our very own Tee Rexx's badgering of Jennifer Capriati, aka Ms Manners?

If you say something that isn't positive about the Williams Sisters it is considered racism. But as long as you insult someone of European decent, it is okay?

Shane54
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:06 AM
Well, if people think that it is boring..well tough shit! The sisters are just too good! If they are that bored, maybe get their favs to actually start beating the sisters and that includes my fav...Good luck in the final ladies!! Rena 6-3, 2-6,6-4 in Wimbledon final...!I see a thrilla commin on....

Crazy Canuck
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:11 AM
jp, you know you are going to get jumped on for that comment, don't you?

However if it were vice versa the comment would be totally acceptable, according to a lot of people on here.

disposablehero
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by mboyle
Actually, I am quite convinced that no one thinks baseball or golf is boring because an african american excelled at it. Anyone who says Barry is not one of the best hitters of all time is on crack, and the only reason I would ever even consider watching golf is because Tiger Woods is cool. I like the Williams Sisters, but I used to think they were snobbish. Then I realized that they simply got alot of bad press from jealous players (ok I read Venus and Serena by Dave Rineberg, there former coach) but anyway, I like them now but they are not my no. 1 faves. I like watching them play other players, but when they play eachother, so far the matches have been super hyped up, and then I am let down by super easy error fests. BUT BUT BUT (IMPORTANT: DO NOT MISS THIS) I feel that their matches have been gradually improving in quality. For Example, at the US Open, though historical, the match was close to the lowest quality of any grand slam final to date, but the French was not quite as error filled, but still not top notch. I think that this Wimbledon could be their explosive match when they play eachother at full force. But, I will not be disappointed if it is another error spree. My only fear is that people will get over the hype, and not watch the Williams vs. Williams finals anymore. Thus I pray and pray and pray that Vee and Ree get over their mental blocks and play like they do in practice against eachother. If somehow the pressure and guilt were removed, then WOW what a match we would see.

There, mboyle, is the tragedy of these kinds of threads. Their purpose is to browbeat people like you into apologizing for not being rabid Williams fans since September of 1997. If you have other favourites that perhaps you have cheered for since 1996, 1995, 1991, 1988 or whatever, the hope is to make you feel extraordinarily guilty for that too.

disposablehero
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:26 AM
jp is going to get his ass nailed to the wall any moment now for telling the TRUTH.

Amanda
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:29 AM
Dream on....Venus and Serena are the next level in women's tennis...the others now have to catch up with them......even the "real" experts agree.:bounce:


Enjoy the Williams/Williams final....I'm sure we'll here about it later.

Ted of Teds Tennis
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:30 AM
You're right Rebecca. I distinctly recall having to read somebody defend Richard Williams for calling Spirlea a 'big white turkey'. Could you imagine what would happen if somebody were to call a Williams Sister a 'big black turkey'?

Amanda
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:33 AM
nothing....Venus and Serena have been called a lot worse and nothing was done about it. No comment positive or negative will change the fact of today's tennis game....Venus and Serena are the dominant force at this point.

Shane54
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:35 AM
Ted you are right forgot about that one...

sorelbow
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:44 AM
those that find a williams v williams final boring, will just have to give up women's tennis for awhile. that may be fine if you are a fan, but if you play the game for aliving, ....? you'd either have to get used to getting your butt whipped, or start practising harder and getting better! otherwise, we will only have wiliiams v williams finals for all the grand slams. i for one, can live with that.

disposablehero
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by Amanda
nothing....Venus and Serena have been called a lot worse and nothing was done about it. No comment positive or negative will change the fact of today's tennis game....Venus and Serena are the dominant force at this point.

Really Amanda? Tell me what was said and who said it.

Amanda
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:53 AM
Remember Indian Wells????????? Remember the use of the N-word. Where was all the outrage?

disposablehero
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:58 AM
Who was it that used that word again? Their name please.

As for the outrage, I recall a few hundred threads.

disposablehero
Jul 6th, 2002, 02:59 AM
Oh, and the only person who could confirm the use of the "N-word" was........

Wait for it...

Richard Williams.

Funny how that name keeps appearing.

Amanda
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:05 AM
No, Venus and Serena also stated it......Don't even go there! Even the tournament officials apologized.

disposablehero
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:15 AM
Venus and Serena stated it? I don't recall ever seeing that.

Anyhow, there were something like 10000 people there. I'm not naive enough to think you live in an enlightened enough country that nobody out of that crowd would drop racist slurs during the match. Hell, even in Canada there would have been quite a few. Just remember that most of the crowd wasn't using those words, and were merely booing because they believed they had been cheated of the marquee semifinal they paid for. The few who said that were faceless, unimportant bigots, with no public voice other than in a mob.

Unlike Richard, who fancies himself a respected public figure, and displays his ugliness into microphones.

You wanna see an uproar? Envision what would happen if Melanie Molitor ever dropped an N-bomb into a reporters microphone. It's called a long suspension.

Crazy Canuck
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:21 AM
Amanda I think you missed the point.

No one said it is okay to say bad things about Venus and Serena.

Myself, I was merely asking why when you say something about them it is racist, but when you insult someone of European decent, that is "ok".

So are we to treat people different based on their skin colour? Would that not be...racism?

Alan
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:25 AM
It's either their games vs each other is really boring:rolleyes:

or the idea of an all Williams Grand Slam final is getting boring! HAve they really raised the level of women's tennis? where's the long rallies? It's not about color! It's about playing good tennis!

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Crazy Canuck
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:29 AM
Alan, maybe you haven't been around here long enough to know:

You can't say something less than 100% positive about a Williams sisters without being labelled a racist on this board.

You are welcome however to insult anyone of European decent.

One of those unwritten board rules.

sorelbow
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:29 AM
is there anything objectionable to serena and venus getting to be the best two players on tour? and the best justifying their rankings and seeding? that's how and why we get an all-williams final.

Amanda
Jul 6th, 2002, 03:29 AM
long rallies = good tennis LOL! I get it...aces should not count...better yet hit an ace or a winner and your opponent gets the point....Duh!!!

RockSteady
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:13 AM
When the white, country-clubbing Sampras dominated, and other white, country-clubbing players with huge serves dominated four or five years ago, everyone called it boring. Too many aces, no rallies, quick points. We all flocked to the women's game.

Suddenly, Serena and Venus dominate using a lot of aces, no rallies, quick points. We called it boring when the white men were doing it, and it is still boring when the black women are doing it. Race isn't the issue here (for most of us).

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 7th, 2002, 05:17 AM
Williams sisters deserve better
By Roy Collins (Filed: 07/07/2002)


As the men's game cries out for more performances that make sense of the world rankings, the ability of the Williams sisters to maintain a consistency level commensurate with their No 1 and 2 positions ought to have earned the respect and admiration of their fellow competitors for proving that the distaff game is in a healthier state.

But, sadly, their inexorable passage to a second successive Grand Slam final appeared to elicit only resentment, jealousy and in some cases near-contempt from the rest of the locker room. The best they receive is a grudging word in appreciation of their talents and achievements, which is a poor reflection on the sportsmanship of the so-called ladies' game.

Venus and Serena Williams are the two best players in their world, who just happen to be sisters - and there, of course, lies the problem. But why should that accident of birth deny them the acclaim they are due? No one complained of boredom when Steffi Graf and Martina Navratilova continually met in Grand Slam finals; nor when Martina regularly faced Chris Evert. In fact, those contests were eagerly anticipated.

It is true that, because of the closeness of their relationship, matches between the Williamses have tended to be anodyne affairs, riddled with mistakes and so passionless that they have been accused of taking it in turns to win. But that is another outrageous slur that no player would dare level against anyone else on the circuit, at least not without trepidation of the legal consequences. Yet where the Williams sisters are concerned, it seems that no accusation is too base.

When they first appeared on the scene, amid the claims of their father, Richard, that they would one day fill the two top positions in the world, the rest of the players openly scoffed at the preposterousness of such a notion. But now that they have risen to that status through sheer hard work and determination, both on the practice court and in the gym, their fellow competitors are all but accusing them of foul play.

After losing to Serena in the French Open semi-finals, Jennifer Capriati, who had lost her place as the world No 1, alleged that they had been "clever" in manipulating the rankings by avoiding playing in the same events, as if not playing could improve one's standing.

After her 6-2, 6-1 semi-final defeat by Serena on Centre Court on Thursday, Amelie Mauresmo was equally unchivalrous when she snorted: "You know, I've lost count of the people who have said to me 'We don't want a Williams final, whatever.' I think it's a little bit sad for women's tennis."

She added: "I started well but then she just cruised on. She was playing so well. I tried a few things but I just couldn't do anything."

Justine Henin offered a similar bleat after she was wiped away 6-3, 6-2 by Venus, saying: "She was too strong, too good. She didn't let me play.

She was so aggressive, so powerful, what could I do? She played better than when she beat me in last year's final. You can see the sisters are the best two players in the world, but maybe the crowd would like to see different players in the Grand Slam finals."

There is no acknowledgement of the sisters' achievement in lifting themselves so far above their contemporaries, not even a nod in the direction of their dedication, professionalism and sheer athletic powers.

Their athleticism is even used as another weapon against them, as if size, strength and speed are not only natural attributes that need no tending but they are also the only requirements of a top-class player.

At least Monica Seles was happy to deny that, saying: "Venus and Serena are not No 1 and 2 in the world because of their size. If that were the case, you could take any general Joe who is 6ft 2in and give him a racket.

"They have pretty good tennis skills and they have improved a lot in the last couple of years."

Serena, 20, has improved immeasurably in the past 12 months, especially in terms of concentration, not just over a match but over the two weeks of a Grand Slam. She is now a player capable of raising her game in the second week when the challenges become steeper.

In the first week of this Wimbledon, she could barely raise her first service success-rate above 50 per cent. But she improved to 67 per cent against Chanda Rubin in the quarter-finals and moved up to an impressive 74 per cent in the semi-finals.

Venus, by contrast, returned a shocking 46 per cent of first service successes against Henin, which only emphasised the gulf in class between the two players. And Henin was one of the few players fancied to upset the sisters.

Mauresmo was another, and she produced the performance of the tournament by beating Jennifer Capriati in the quarter-finals. Sadly, that denied us even one great match at these championships, a repeat of Capriati's scintillating semi-final against Serena in Paris.

That made it a certainty that the world's two best players would meet in the final as, if we believe in seeding, they always ought to. They became the first number one and two seeds to meet in a Wimbledon final since Steffi Graf and Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario in 1995.

For that they ought to have earned the praise of their fellow professionals, instead of the sniping and backbiting from players who ought to look at their own games and preparation.

It is not the fault of the Williams sisters that their so-called rivals have now become specks on a distant horizon. And those rivals might do better attempting to emulate the Williams sisters than trying to annihilate them.

TeeRexx
Jul 7th, 2002, 10:44 AM
Cybelle - a truly wonderful post that should be read bt all.
I guess it goes to show that some habits die off slowly.

Case in point: The ridiculous post by Rockhead -
Truly pathetic.

ot1962
Jul 8th, 2002, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Rebecca
You can't say something less than 100% positive about a Williams sisters without being labelled a racist on this board.

You are welcome however to insult anyone of European decent.

One of those unwritten board rules.

Do you actually believe what you are writing????????
You keep making claims that are utterly untrue. You seem to have RACE on your mind all the time.

Could you please refer me to places where insults to people of European descent have been seen as OKAY?

Please let the race thing go. I did not know you were white i would claim you are playing the RACE CARD too much:D !!!

TeeRexx
Jul 8th, 2002, 09:44 PM
Good post ot1962.

Couver
Jul 8th, 2002, 09:49 PM
First of all I'm glad Venus & Serena played a good Wimbledon final.

Second I agree saying someone who doesn't like a Williams is a racist is wrong, unless they give you provacation. However, not all Williams fans lable ever poster that insults the Williams sisters as racists. Just because some do doesn't mean we all do.

I also agree that comments about other players can also be racists, but no one gets away with it. If someone insults another player their fans are usually their to defend them.

That's what happens on this board, someone insults Venus & Serena and their fans come to the defence, someone insults Jennifer Capriati and her fans come to her defence, Hingis, Lindsay, etc. When someone makes a comment about another player it's never ok. They get jumped on also, which is good.

I hate how some people love to think only ALL Williams fans start trouble and then trun into hypocrites. Some certainly do, which sucks. But PLEASE a certain number of fans of everyone player do the exact same thing!!!!

But I suppose people only see what they want to see.

Julie
Jul 8th, 2002, 10:36 PM
I was always taught that if you cant say anything nice about someone dont say anything at all, and i really believe its true, i also believe that generally some people would be better off if they considered that as well, but im not deluded enough to think it will happen.

Maybe im too idealistic for all of this, i've always preferred harmony to fighting and nastiness. Maybe im the stupid one for caring too much about all the hatred there is in general as well as that which spills onto these boards everyday. Way too many maybes though!

Serena and Venus are one and two in the world because of their determination, desire and dedication. They should be commended for that in no uncertain terms and other players should be striving to equal their achievements and eventually even surpass them.

But there will always be detractors, just as there are for every single player out there, no one, not even myself, can like everyone. And this board shows day in day out that certain posters are more at ease when surrounded by or initiating controversy and hatred than in celebrating the achievements of players and im talking about any player - becasue each player has achieved irrespectiveof how big or little we perceive it to be.

It really is wrong to assume that anyone who dislikes the Williams's does so because they are racist. Whilst i accept that some people may well be, it is not an affliction of everyone.

As a counter example - it would be like saying that an african american dislikes a caucasian player for that reason only, and there may well be some people who actually do feel that way - but again it is definitely a minority viewpoint.

At the end of the day there is good and bad in every race and thankfully the good outweigh the bad by far :)

I would like to think, that the majority of us, have evolved enough to understand that, and to be sickened by the many racial attacks that are publisized around the world even today. There will always be exceptions, but the exceptions neither deserve mine or oyur time and energy.

This post is not intended to be offensive in the slightest, if anyone has been offended by it or feels that they have to reply will oyu please contact me and i will reopen it. I just really believe that the direction of this thread is one that none of us should be subjected too.