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Informative
Jul 5th, 2002, 05:00 PM
There's seems to be some misinformation regarding the extent of Amelie Mauresmo's remarks regarding the sisters. In the text below from the BBC, which others have quoted from on this board, Mauresmo openly accuses the Williams of match-fixing, a very serious charge. According to this article, there does appear to be grounds for a charge of libel/slander here (as it does for Johnny Mac, and others)...The WTA needs to make a strong public statement against these kind of reckless statements by players on the tour, since in this instance the content of what's being said goes far beyond "sour grapes" or merely being a "sore loser." Accusing people of actual criminality without any corrobarating evidence whatsoever is clearly wrong and inexcusable, and considering the larger context of them could very well be considered libelous in a legal sense. Venus and Serena don't serve this kind of treatment by the tour and the WTA should not tolerate these kinds of remarks from ANYONE without a serious rebuttal. In other words people need to "put up or shut up" in making these allegations. Otherwise, a very poisousness, and potentially dangerous atmosphere is being created by people throwing wildly irresponsible statements around as if their unfounded charges weren't damaging to the integrity of the game itself. This goes beyond merely being "fair" to the sisters. Need I remind anyone that as human beings and citizens that Venus and Serena also have RIGHTS that should be acknowledged and protected? Below is the full text of what Mauressmo said in the BBC article:

Thursday, 4 July, 2002, 19:02 GMT 20:02 UK
Mauresmo dislikes Williams domination


Mauresmo launched a stinging attack



by Caroline Cheese
BBC Sport Online at Wimbledon



Beaten Wimbledon semi-finalist Amelie Mauresmo stirred up controversy in her post-match news conference by re-opening the debate over match-fixing involving the Williams sisters.

Frenchwoman Mauresmo was thrashed 6-2 6-1 by Serena Williams in the second semi after Venus had cruised past Justine Henin in the first.

Serena breezes past Mauresmo

Afterwards, she was asked which sister would prevail in Saturday's final.

"You have to ask them for that," she replied tersely.



To me, it's a little bit sad for women's tennis

Amelie Mauresmo
She then told French television that she believed that matches between the sisters were fixed.

"I think they arrange it - I don't have any proof of this or inside information, but take for example the match at Roland Garros - it could have been arranged," she said.

"As Serena won in Paris, maybe they'll change it and it'll be Venus' turn now."

She also stated that she did not think the domination of the Williams, who are numbers one and two in the world, was good for the women's game.

"I think people are going to get bored of it," she said of the prospect of a third all-Williams final in the last four Grand Slams.

"I'm not counting how many people since yesterday told me: 'We don't want an all-Williams final.'

"To me, it's a little bit sad for women's tennis but maybe it's not the point of view of everybody."

Matches between the Williams sisters have been regularly dogged by controversy and the pair have been criticised for their inability to produce their best tennis against each other.

The Williams themselves claim they find it difficult to play competitively against a sibling, but rumours have also surfaced that their father Richard decides who will win matches between his daughters.

nikita771
Jul 5th, 2002, 05:07 PM
I do hope that this is somehow a mistake. Amelie has been the center of controversy after coming out as a lesbian and then being accused of being on steroids. At least she states that she has no proof. I like Amelie and hope that she was speaking more out of being upset at her loss and not really caring what happened when she left and not trying to put them down. It's not that we should expect someone who has just been beaten to be all compliments to the one who just blew her off the court.

Rocketta
Jul 5th, 2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by jp
Yes, but the problem is: we don't know if she said that or not to the french television. Where are the french posters?

Anyway how can we trust someone who's name is "Caroline Cheese"?

I know that's what I asked. I guess there are no French people posting her lately. :sad:

Amanda
Jul 5th, 2002, 06:19 PM
Amelie made the comments...i really don't blame her...Serena totally whipped her ass out there. Amelie was totallyhumiliated. She truly needs a sports psychologist....to help her cope with future losses.

macn
Jul 5th, 2002, 06:50 PM
It's funny that no one complained when Martina and Chris dominated Tennis! If the rest of the Women don't like what's happening then practice more on your SERVES AND NERVES!!!!!!!!

Hulet
Jul 5th, 2002, 06:55 PM
can we call Ms. mauresmo "Ms. sour-grape" now? :) I think I will use it from now on.

Bella
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by macn
It's funny that no one complained when Martina and Chris dominated Tennis!

Yes, they did. As well, they were also called cold and arrogant like the rest. One of the problems is your and others' assumptions that this is the first time any of this stuff came at top players and that it has anything to do with color. Obviously, you all weren't there. Ask someone who was. If it wasn't like this, it would be the first time it wasn't. Think about it.


By the way, where is the complete text the thread promised? That's just a story, not a transcript.

For all the legal expertise offered, you seem to have completely ignored the fact that Amelie stated it was her belief—not that it was a fact. This is not slander by any stretch of the imagination and is protected speech and should be protected speech.

[EDITED by me because I don't know if she said what it posted in the thread topic] but it was not what the first post said it was. I hope you are not a lawyer.

irma
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:04 PM
Amelie says they(venus and serena) are sad for women's tennis while in fact she must have meant that she herself is the sad thing in tennis considering she lost 6:2 6:1 to queen Serena!
I happen to like Amelie and I have rooted for her on many occasions but this was just a big mistake imho
and yeah people can say she has a right to have her opinion, that's true but she could better have kept it to herself and go on court and figure a way out so that next time she will not get kicked of the court! That would have been a better answer!

Volcana
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:10 PM
I have been trying to cut Amelie some slack on this, but when you read the complete text, there's just no way. I mean, "... take for example the match at Roland Garros - it could have been arranged..." She's using THAT as an example!?!? ANY match CAN be arranged, but ANY SCORE. It LOOKED like Amelie tanked versus Serena, but I don't beleive she did. There's a very large skill and talent gap there. But she COULD have tanked. I'm quite disappointed with Amelie.

Ms. Lively
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:11 PM
Amelie is telling the truth. Do you want her to be fake and lie, by saying that an all Williams final is wonderful?

Helen Lawson
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:14 PM
Make it stop! Now Mauresmo will not say anything to the press for at least two years.

nikita771
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:18 PM
I don't think that anyone minds her saying that she is lnot ooking forward to an all Williams final. She probably doesn't care and why should she? She's not going to be there, so why bother? I'm sure that Jennifer had no interest in what happened after she lost to Amelie. It's what she says along with not wanting an all Williams final that bothers people. Surely this can't be that hard to understand.

Cam'ron Giles
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:22 PM
Momo has some nerve. With all the question about her in the press she should know better. Get your ass out there and play better and you will find your self in another grand slam final soon enough...

Dawn Marie
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:37 PM
Amelie has blew it with me. I don't care how much I liked her before, the minute she made those slanderous statements about my favorite players then that was it. She knows better, she is a grown mature women. Her of all players should know all about the media and how to talk to them under pressure. Amelie, in fact made no damn sense when she said. " Take Roland Garros for example". What? did she see something during the final? What I want to know, is EXACTLY what makes her THINK that they fix the matches? What kind of proof does she have? She says she can't prove anything which leads me to believe that nothing is there to cause for a guilty verdict.

I am sorry, nobody is counter posting anything that disputes what Momo stated. So as of right now, I feel she made those slanderous statements, and I no longer will support her as a fan.

I am really disapointed with Amelie.

the cat
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:50 PM
I'm dissapointed in Amelie, too. :( Especially after the 1999 Australian Open, when Martina Hingis made those foolish comments about Mauresmo. Martina was taken to task for those immature comments. Especially in France. And the crowd rooting against her cost Martina the 1999 French Open title and career grand slam. Which she will now most likely never achieve.

But Amelie should know better than to say a Williams/Williams final isn't good for women's tennis. That was bad enough. But then she went on to intimate that their matches are fixed. Which is stupid to say.

Remember when Elena Dementieva intimated that at the 2001 Indian Wells tournament? Elena was criticised by Dawn Maria and others on the Sanex board for saying that. All these players have had a chance to learn from others mistakes. But have they? No! :mad:

I think we all have to remember that these people are tennis player. They a jocks that have lived in their own little worlds since they were under 10 years old. They are not the most educated people. Are they?

Dawn Marie
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:58 PM
cat, why talk of me criticising Elena, Elena should be held accountable for her slanderous statements. Alot of players don't make slanderous statements, so cat, don't make excuses for them. Most of the wta tour I believe are mature well handled media people. Just because these two made statements doesn't mean the entire tour is as ignorant.

Amelie, I mean it wasn't THAT long ago, when people made slanderous remarks against Amelie of all people.

Personally I think people's true colors come out, when they lose. It is a shame, I really liked Amelie. I admired her for "coming out", I had respect for her, but right now, I am so disapointed in her.

Renee
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:05 PM
The cat, that is exactly what I am thinking when I read Amelie's comments. These tennis players are living in their own little world. Can they not think for themself. Do they not realize how ignorant they sound when they make accusations without any proof. How can Venus and Serena playing each other in Grand Slams be bad for tennis. They will not win forever. Justine, Kim and Daniela will be winning Grand Slams soon.

I am feeling very sad right now because Amelie is my third fave.

GogoGirl
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:21 PM
Sad but true - but I too am sad about what Momo said Dawn Marie.

First of all - how did the Sisters know they would make the finals at the FO? And then - at what point did they decide who would win it? In other words - what did Momo mean "Take Roland Garros for example." "What in the world did that statement have to do w/where the sisters are now? Is Momo still smarting about the fact that she didn't make it to the final at her own country's GS tourney? I mean - who beat her there? Was it one of the Sisters? No!

The truth of the matter is that Venus & Serena deserve to be where they find themselves - and Henin and Momo don't - because they didn't win their semifinal match to get there. What in the Pork 'n Beans do these folks want the Sisters to do when they are playing their semis? Lose?

By these players and others making statements like these - they appear not to be giving themselves any hope at all at making a final in the future. They seem to be giving up and admitting that NO ONE in the world can beat the Sisters - and we all know that this is not the truth.

I will still give these two players the benefit of the doubt in this case - but in the long run - I think they are hurting their own confidence and belief in themselves when cracking on two players that DESERVE to be in the final. They earned the right to be there.

Do they not see how petty remarks like that sound? Do they not see that they do indeed sound like they are whining ova and about sour grapes - and that they do indeed sound like sore losers? Do they not see that it is not Venus & Serena's fault that they played and paved their way to the final because they were just too good during the fortnight? Do they not see that making such comments will not change a thing? Do they not see that the Sisters have never done anything to them but beat them fair and square?

And for the ones that say that Momo has the right to give her opinion on how boring the final - okay then. But why did she have to comment about the folks that came up to her saying the same thing? Could it be that she had such pressure on her shoulders to beat Serena - so she feels she let millions down?

It just does not make any sense to me. And I'm more than pleased that the Sisters are wise enough to overlook such comments. Venus as always put it best. "It is good for women's tennis - and it is good for Serena & I." And that last part was right on - because isn't it every player's goal to do the best they can to make it to the finals? IMO - Venus was saying - we are happy for ourselves because we worked hard to get here - and we earned it - so we're happy. They will not let anybody steal their thunder.

And last but not least - if one doesn't have anything good to say about an opponent - then maybe staying mum on the subject is the best way to go.


"COME ON - VENUS & SERENA - LET'S GO" "GIVE IT YOUR BEST SHOT ON 7/6/02" "HAVE FUN" "AND WALK AND DON'T RUN TO YOUR LOCAL BANK" "CONTINUE TO IGNORE THE CRITICS AND HATERS" "THEY SHOULD KNOW BY NOW THEY THEY CANNOT STOP NO WILLIAMS SHOW"

Volcana
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:26 PM
Ms. Lively - I totally support Amelie saying an All-Williams final will be boring. I totally support saying ti would be better for the WTA if different players won sometims.

I do not support accusing one's competitors of committing crimes with no evidence. Not proof, even, just some evidence.

I believe I can safely say I speak for quite a few people where that distinction is concerned.

You wonder if Amelie feels a little more sympathy for Martina hingis and her remarks after the OZ 99 final.

treufreund
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:48 PM
Amelie and Martina now have a friendly professional relationship. martina Hingis's comments were now OVER three years ago and yet Ted Robinson revels in bringing them up every single time Mauresmo plays. Will Amelie have to live through this type of rehashing? I have noticed that if Hingis says something that the fiery smilies come out but if Mauresmo or Dokic or Davenport say things (especially in this case) people are just "disappointed". Guess that's no different than players being "bored" after having lost. Also Justine, I think, implies there is something fishy and I don't believe she likes the Williams because she always says after a loss that "that's great FOR HER" but not in a convincing tone at all. Of course Venus said "that an all-Williams final is great for women's tennis, mostly it's great for Serena and I" (grammatical mistake of hypercorrection not corrected). I had to roll my eyes when I read that quote from Venus considering Amelie said that many many people expressed that they don't want an all-Williams final. I mean you cannot say it's good for women's tennis and then turn around and say but mostly it's good for me and my sister!!!!!!!! WHAT A CONTRADICTION unless Venus thinks that she and her sister are women's tennis. Maybe too much pressure is being put on Capriati, Mauresmo, Henin, and Hingis and Davenport who need to take their time and not hurry back to challenge the Williams.

mariolo
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:53 PM
She did't accuse somebody :(
she said when somebody asks her who will win saturday :
"that's a question for them !"
that's all :confused:

treufreund
Jul 5th, 2002, 08:58 PM
She said that the final of Roland Garros could have been predetermined. Also if she is saying ask them who will win right now then what the hell else does that mean???? No offense but you are being naive!

Rollo
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:27 PM
Where is the COMPLETE transcript? Sorry, but when a junior poster puts out a thread title like that
I tend to disbelieve it unless there is a link.

The BBC has nothing like this on it's site. Sorry if I offend, but this needs a link to the article to be taken seriously.

harloo
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:49 PM
This is posted on aol tennis link in the more tennis news section. I have to admitt I was suprised and dissapointed after I read it. I thought Amelie was a class act, but now I see she has joined the ranks of Capriati. I'm really sick of this petty stuff, because it's senseless. I know Venus and Serena won't really say anything about it, but most likely Richard will have something to say.

I really liked Amelie and was happy she was being herself on the tour by coming out and everything. However, I just feel that she is scandalous for her comments on this. There is no excuse for accusations of the match fixing. She has a right to say what she want's, but I won't feel sorry for her if someone criticizes her sexuality or her presumed steroids usage. We don't live in glass houses, and if you dish it out, then you certainly must take it.

BTW, I didn't necessarily see anything wrong with what Henin said. She just gave her opinion and let it go, and just didn't accuse the sisters of commiting a crime.

Yep, Rollo I would like to see the complete transcript also but I do believe that Amelie made these statements. Hopefully, some of the quotes were out of context but it seems pretty clear to me that Amelie is dissing the sisters. And Chrissy had the nerve to call her "gentle".
:rolleyes:

the cat
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:13 PM
Thank you Renee! :wavey:

Dawn, I think everyone should be held accountable for their statements. If I wasn't clear on that, I apologize. :)

Terri77
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
I mean you cannot say it's good for women's tennis and then turn around and say but mostly it's good for me and my sister!!!!!!!! WHAT A CONTRADICTION unless Venus thinks that she and her sister are women's tennis.

Where's the contradiction? There is none. There's no contradiction in saying that Venus and Serena raising their game is good for tennis and beneficial to them.

nikita771
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:26 PM
Treufreund....I don't see that statement as a contradiction. Anything that has people talking about tennis, especially women't tennis is good. If people are talking about the Williams sisters being in the final, it's good for women's tennis. At the same time, it is good for them. They are fulfilling what they set out to do - be the #1 and #2 players in the world and meet in Grand Slam finals.

irma
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:28 PM
if people would let go that they are sisters and just try to enjoy the final maybe you will see that it's not that bad!
Go Serena:D

Rolling-Thunder
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:32 PM
I couldn't be happier with the sisters being in this final. And it is not at all a contradiction for Venus to say that it is good for womens' tennis and for Serena and herself. Some you you think you are so smart. She is not intimating that the two of them = womens' tennis. What she is saying is that it is a personal achievement and a wonderful accomplishment for each. Moreover, IT IS ALWAYS AN ACHIEVEMENT AND A POSITIVE THING WHEN THE #1 AND #2 PLAYERS FACE OFF IN A SLAM FINAL. I see no contradiction there, do you?

And for all those naysayers and complainers, if you don't like their brand and style of tennis switch the channel. I support and affirm your right to a different opinion and support and affirm you right to change the channel. Channel surf all you want come Saturday's breakfast time. It is simply ludicrous and contrary to what the pundits are saying that their playing each other is bad or will be bad for tennis. Not only must they be given time to get over the mental thing. But it is not as if this has been going on for years people. Was it so bad when Steffi was en route to 22 Slams and several other finals too? Was it horrible when she won the French 6-0 6-0? No. No. No. A great champion is always a great champion. And sometimes even if she creams an opponent like Serena did Mauresmo, the masterful performance is just something to behold and appreciate even if you favorite is the one being slammed. An example is Hingis' 6-1 6-1 vanquishing of Venus at the Australian in 2001. Sometimes one player is just in a zone and all you can say is wow, superb, my oh my.

Also, I have to think that the #s from the US Open primetime Womens final of 2001 which were impressive and the #s for the 2002 taped delayed Womens French Final which exceeded Capriati's 2001 victory had a lot to do with the WTA Tour season final being scheduled for primetime on Monday night. And who were the players in each of those two finals, you got it: Venus and Serena Williams. That's right people. Just those two. The #s or facts have obviously impressed Madison Avenue. Madison Avenue (Wall Street's marketing face) meets Main Street (tennis fans and the general public). Anyone who can stir up that much legitimate interest as opposed to hype (Kournikova factor) can only be good for the game. Why? Anytime you draw in hitherto uninterested people and convert them into fans and followers you increase your attendance numbers, sponsorship dollars increase, contracts dollars increase, and tournament dollars increase for everyone. A rising tide will lift all boats.
Just ask all the other players on the PGA what Tiger has done for the sport and for their finances and they will readily admit that tournament purses have balloned. Though they will also say that they wish they could win every now and then too. And every now and then they do win though not too often.

So stop complaining. If they really want to stop the borefest then they need to get in the gym, some need to lose weight, improve or find a serve, learn how to volley, develope a backhand and forehand, add a drop shot, or employ Hingis' underhanded serve and get a sports psychologist to work on their mental games. You've got to earn it. Otherwise you're just being a big cry baby.

tennis4life
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:40 PM
I would be most disappointed in Amelie if she did indeed say something that ridiculous. It would be just so pitiful!

t4l

Julie
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:47 PM
it would seem that the thread starter has maybe not been entirely accurate with his summary of Amelies interview

Here is a link to bella's thread who has transcribed the interview and quoted links and all.

Bella's thread re amelie (including links) (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30494)

A second poster (ace78man) also quoted the same link as Bella to the BBC article online by Caroline Cheese in their thread "will oyu people never learn" - perhaps not the best of titles but so be it.

Given that we have no links in this thread to substantiate such comments and that i have also searched the bbc sports online site and found nothing vaguely resembling what this poster suggests - i think we should maybe discount their remarks as being less than truthful until someone can prove otherwise. Until then this thread is closed.