It will certainly make some writers and reporters think twice about slander and libel.
Constantly raising "match-fixing" speculation without presenting a shred of evidence other than your own feelings is slanderous. The origin of the match-fixing allegations, like most other negative rumors, is sour grapes and envy from players they beat. Rather than pick up on that,t he media has taken the concept and run with it raising the issue at every tournament and in some cases after a couple of points in a match (see Mary Carillo 2001 US Open final).
Check out the evidence to support fixed-matches:
1. Lindsay Davenport once joked that Richard probably decides who wins.
2) Elena Dementieva once said after a loss to Venus that Richard would determine who won the next round between Venus and Serena.
3) Mary Carillo astutely noticed after a change in the momentum of V & S finals match at last years US Open that it was suspicious and supported claims of match fixing, This is the most compelling evidence yet since we all know that momentum changes are very rare in women's matches.
4) Reporters noticed that Venus and Serena played differently against each other than they do against other players. Apparently they didn't show the same "killer instinct." This is also compelling evidence for match-fixing because there is no way their play could be due to the stress of playing their sibling.
5) A highly esteemed publication called "The Enquirer" ran a story where a supposed associate claimed the Sisters matches were fixed. Once again, everyone knows that the Enquirer is a beacon of journalistic integrity intent on seeking the truth over sensationalism...NOT!
There is plenty of evidence and COMMON SENSE to suggest their matches were never fixed.
1)At one point Venus held a 5-1 edge over Serena. What would be the point in pre--determining such a lopsided outcome? More importantly, could you ever picture a fierce competitior like Serena agreeing to lose that many times to Venus?
2) Venus suffered a devastating loss to Hingis at the 1999 US Open semis. This was arguably the lowest point in her career in terms of her esteem. How did little sis cheer her up? Serena beat Venus in their next matchup at the Grand Slam cup. Hmmm why didn't Serena "let" Venus win this one?
3) When you look at how they fight in their matches and constantly claw their way out of deficits to win, it would be totally out of character for either player to purposely lose. Why ignore the obvious fact that both these players hate to lose to come up with a theory that is not supported by their actions or attitude on the court?
4)Venus is 22 years old. Serena is 20. They both no longer live with their parents and frequently travel without them. Where does this notion come from that Richard is pulling the strings on his adult daughters lives? Richard once said Venus was going to retire when she was out six-months with injury. Venus subsequently returned to the tour with a vengence and made a liar out of Daddy. Do people not realize Venus and Serena are ADULTS. How many 22 year-olds do you know would purposely lose a match --not to mention their pride and dignity-- because Daddy told them?
In order to conspire to fix a match you have to be certain that the match will actually take place. Did Richard pay off the rest of the tour to lose to Venus and Serena so they could constantly be in a position to play each other in predetermined matches? Why don't reporters get to the bottom of this potentially huge scandal?;)
IMO, it's time Venus and Serena stop taking the high road and take some action in a courtroom. The criticism they take- which far exceds the criticism leveled at players who behave worse-- has seemed to make them wary of lashing out. A lawsuit would at least serve notice to others that they will no longer stand by and be slandered so viciously.
Jul 5th, 2002, 01:29 PM
:rolleyes: I doubt they care about it as much as you do.
Jul 5th, 2002, 01:34 PM
Jul 5th, 2002, 01:36 PM
if I was them I would keep doing what they do now, keep beating buts on court and let the others have the sour grapes:)
Jul 5th, 2002, 01:38 PM
How do you, Ryan? Do you have some insider information that the rest of us are not privy to? I know that if I'm doing my job and all I get are complaints, it would bother me. It wouldn't ruin my life, but I would get bothered. Just because they don't say anything about it doesn't mean that they don't wonder why everyone can't leave the negativity and unfounded accusations alone. I'm just glad that no matter what they say, Venus and Serena continue to do what they do best - win. That's they best revenge they can get on their critics.
Jul 5th, 2002, 01:41 PM
Rayny - kudos for an excellent post. :)
I think the Williams family is waiting for the right moment to drop a huge lawsuit on those who accuse them of match-fixing. It's just a matter of time.
Jul 5th, 2002, 01:45 PM
There's no fix.
Richard is very 'hands off' a bit like Damir Dokic in regards to Jelena Dokic and like Jelena the 2 sisters more or less coach themselves when on tour.
As for the sisters not playing their best tennis against each other, that is true and it's not surprising.
As Justine Henin testified, it's impossible to play your best tennis against an opponent that doesn't allow you to. Both sisters are very powerful and prevent each other from playing their best.
There's no fix for Wimbledon. Venus will probably win it and not because Serena was 'given' the FO title last month. Venus is a 2 time Wimbledon champion and that gives her the edge over her sister but Serena has improved leaps and bounds so of course she has a great chance.
As everyone knows I do like to investigate and uncover deeds of wrong doing and skullduggery but whatever the outcome of Sunday's final and regardless of the quality, there is no fix.
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:17 PM
PAT CASH should be served the first lawsuit. This scruffy drug addict looking ass does not waste any opportunity to accuse Ricahard Williams of fixing the sisters matches on the BBC in England. Same goes for Sue Barker/John Inverdale hosts of BBC's Wimbledon coverage who CONSTANTLY goad studio guests into accusing the Williams's of match fixing . The whole 'match-fixing' slander is over over the British press and is getting completely out of hand.
Venus/Serena or Richard Williams or their lawyers SHOULD DO SOMETHING about all this SOON..
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:32 PM
Maybe they are not suing because it was a cousin or some other relative of theirs who made the allegation in the first instance, at least as to Wimbledon from 2000.
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:43 PM
I don't think this is something that can be proven one way or the other. But I don't believe they match-fix.
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:50 PM
If it were me, I wouldn't sue either - it would be a hard case to win in court (no matter how bogus the accusation is), and it would just give the idiots and excuse to talk about it endlessly.
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:53 PM
Hey Griffin, you must be pleased with amelie's run?!! she played FABULOUS vs. Capriati, i almost fell off my couch watching some of those points!!
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:54 PM
Most people who hear this stuff figure it's just jealousy, with a little bit of the spice of racial bigotry thrown in. These two are princesses. Rich, beautiful, at the top of their sport, with a loving family, and a best friend who undrstands EXACTLY what they go through. They're ruling the tennis world. Just as their (much and unfairly reviled) father predicted.
There's a lot to be jealous of.
Well, when you're in that position, you can't sue people over every jealous word. It simply isn't fair, and it makes you look petty. It would be like knocking your opponent out, then kicking them.
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:27 PM
Some jealous haters will try and belittle what Venus and Serena have accomplished. I suppose the whole wta tour is in on the conspiracy as well, seeing how both Venus and Serena had to pay off the 12 other players they have collectively "beat" to make it to the finals. Ignore the haters, the more you listen to them the more they spread their ignorance.
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:36 PM
I doubt they care about it as much as you do.
I said I doubt they care nikita. They may care a lot, and I never said they didn't. Doubt was the key word that you unwittingly chose to overlook.
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:40 PM
I didn't overlook it. You doubt they care. I doubt that you know either way. I doubt that you are that close to them that you can doubt what they think or don't think. I doubt that anyone outside of the family or close circle of friends know how it affects. Doubt is pretty relative term when it comes down to it and when you roll your eyes on top of it, your meaning becomes less "doubtful" and more certain.
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:43 PM
I doubt you know as well. You are right that I don't know, but in my opinion, I doubt they care. In all truth, the roll eyes didn't have to do with them caring or not caring at all. It just amazed me at how much time Rayny put into creating reasons for them to sue people over "fixed" matches.
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:47 PM
I took me less than 5 minutes to put down reasons that have been in my head ever since these ridiculous allegations started. How amazing is that?
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:49 PM
It's amazing that two famous peopel on top of the tennis world would want to file a lawsuit over something that they know isn't true.
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:51 PM
It suprises me that people still get so upset over the continued talk of match fixing. I agree that it's old and tired but Venus and Serena don't let it bother them and neither should you.
Their tennis does plenty of talking..;)
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:00 PM
Hey, Ryan - we agree on something! I don't know and I never claimed to know. I said how I would feel if I was doing my job and the only thing that happened was people throwing around unfounded rumors. I don't know what goes with them and would never be so bold as to say what or what does happen. I apparently misread the meaning for your rolling eyes. It's not the first time I've misunderstood a post and it definitely won't be the last.
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:02 PM
Its' time for Venus and Serena to file some lawsuits
Not yet, Rayny. Let's wait for the comments voiced and written after tomorrow's match. :cool:
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:04 PM
Sorry:o I probably hsould have explained the roll eyes, it is easy to misunderstand hwat I meant by it. I would be mad if all I got were complaints about my profession(If I had one) but I think Venus and Serena, along with every other tennis player are used to that thing and wouldn't take it seriously.:wavey:
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:05 PM
It's amazing that two famous peopel on top of the tennis world would want to file a lawsuit over something that they know isn't true.
Ryan15 - What's so amazing? Were you amazed Anna would sue Penthouse? If Puma told Serena they didn't want her back because of rumors of 'match-fixing' costing Serena 20 million dllars or so, I think she'd sue, and she'd be right to. Suing is for recovering damage. Venus and Serena came up with a lot of hositilty directed toward them. They got their endorsements with a lot of hositilty directed toward them. So far, they've kept those endorsements and added to them with a lot of hositilty directed toward them.
They'll sue if and only if it actually costs them something. So far, it hasn't. But if lies others tell about you cost you financially, you have a right to sue.
I'm amazed you're amazed.
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:13 PM
As long as Williams sisters meet there are going to be critics who accuse them of match fixing. It comes with being the best players in the world - I'm not saying it's right merely observing that you're probably better off not letting it bother you. No one can prove it either way. When Seles was no.1 they criticised her noise level. When Hingis was no.1 they criticised her for not winning slams. When Graf was no.1 post-1993 they complained because no one could beat her. People are always going to find something to complain about.
You could dwell on it or you could focus on the postive - a Williams sister will be holding the trophy tomorrow irrespective of the quality of the match. As far as I can see they and their fans are in a win-win situation. :)
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:17 PM
Kart, with all due respect...
Accusing one in this case two of match fixing is much more serious than criticizing a player for noise level/not winning slams/etc.
Volcano... thanks for breaking it down
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:23 PM
Agreed but the principle is the same - I doubt the media would make such a big deal of it if they were ranked 998 and 999 and meeting in the first round of a challenger event.
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:24 PM
Serena and Venus have not lost any endorsements from these continuing "allegations". In fact, the writers/commentators are just giving them more free press and to be blunt, I don't feel the comments being made about their matches are hostile.
When you're on top, there's always going to be those annoying few that try to bring you down. However, for the most part the tennis world is not treating Venus or Serena with any more/less hostility than all the other players.
They are not suing because they do not need to.
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:36 PM
From a legal standpoint, wouldn't Venus and Serena have to prove that these people knew the information to be false, yet intentionally printed the false information to win a libel case? The fact is, I think most of the people who accuse them of match fixing actually believe that they fix the matches and even if they don't, it's still going to be pretty hard to prove that they didn't.
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:53 PM
The reason, I believe, that Team Williams haven't sued yet is because they are quietly building their case.
Match-fixing is a VERY SERIOUS CHARGE. In some cases, it's a felony. So writers, announcers, players and anyone else have to be held accountable and provide proof for their accusations that the Williams engage in match-fixing. It goes to the very credibility of the sport itself.
With the resources to get the best lawyers in the country, team Williams will sue the pants off those who falsely accuse them of match-fixing. It's only a matter of time. :)
Jul 6th, 2002, 11:59 PM
As Evert said during the final, when they came on the tour they were not treated well by the players. Everyone took pot shots at them and they did not respond in kind. Serena said that they were raised to say nice things about people.
And as long as they keep their priorities straight and keep things in perspective, no weapon formed against them shall prosper.
Many have tried to tear them down and they have FAILED!!:D
The more evil their detractors hurl at them, the more they turn it to good. :p
Jul 7th, 2002, 01:51 AM
"Good will always previal over evil". There is an old African saying: "however long it takes the truth will always come out "
Venus, Serena and the Williams family have endured all these stupid and silly allegations of so called match-fixing for too long. It appears that the tennis world is begining to eat humble pie. Frankly, it is sick for people to even think like this or make those silling claims without any evidence. Take the latest one for example: Amelis Muresmo saying all that rubbish after she was defeated by the better player on the day. what a load of sour grapes.
like Venus said today just don't "respond". These types of nonsense are excruciatingly laughable but I have to say I blame the press for this - they live for sensationalism and would take the least acceptable 'gabbage' just to get the headline.
Should venus and serena sue? probably not. like somene just said: let their tennis do the talking.
the trouble is people are very reluctant to change. The fact that you have two young & very intelligent african american women doing so well in a sport which is not traditionally associated to people of african decent - it is very difficult to accept.
people shuold get use to this. the williams sisters will be playing each other in a lot more finals to come as long as they stay healthy and injury free.
I hope the sophisticated tennis fans will discount and repel these sort of 'gabbage'. Enough is Enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!