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View Full Version : John Mcenroe and Chris and Mary Carillo...(williams fans only)


Dawn Marie
Jul 4th, 2002, 05:34 PM
LMAO, they are so obvious when they comment on the WTA. I laugh and wonder at their meaning behind their words when they keep saying OVER and OVER, that the WTA tour needs Lindsay and Hingis to compete against the Williams sisters??? They keep bringing this up, as though those 2 are the savior of tennis?? I haven't heard this kind of DESPERATE talk of injured WTA players to come back and compete EVER? When Venus was out for 6 months and it was Lindsay/Hingis all the time, there were no commentators "crying out for help". Wanting Venus to DESPERATLY get back and compete with Hingis and Lindsay??

Now okay, sure the tour needs Lindsay and Hingis, but it's not like either one of them has been spanking Venus or Serena lately? So what in the hell are they taking about when they keep refering to Hingis, Lindsay and Jennifer as the players that can compete with them? I find this rude to the other WTA players. Frankly I think so many other players can beat Venus and Serena. Justine,Kim and Daniela are imho more prone to beat them then Hingis(don't make me laugh) and Lindsay (at the moment).

I find the media masses very biased, they are so obvious with their dislike of Venus and Serena at the top. John, Chris,Mary C, and whoever , HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THE FOLLOWING PLAYERS "DOMINATING" the GAME.

Martina Hingis
Lindsay Davenport
Andre Agassi
Lleyton Hewitt
Pete Sampras(he won how many wimby's) LMAO!!
Steffi Graf
Jennifer Capriati-even though she has not beaten Venus.


I find it biased that NOW that Venus and Serena are #1 and #2 and made the French Open final that alot of commentators are DESPERATLY wishing for them to get some competion. It's like they can't stand the fact that two sista's are at the top of the game. I mean Hell, it won't last forever so why can't they just enjoy the moment in history, and let these two women succeed and dominate without feeling the NEED, to stop them? Some folks just really make me laugh. So ignorant. so very ignorant.


Well anyway, this kind of bias just won't get me down, because there is way too much to celebrate here, Venus made her third final and Serena is the #1 player for the first time ever in the entire world. Heck Chanda is playing well and is doing great with Anna in doubles.:):)

Go people of color, keep on breaking these barriers.:):):)

BK4ever
Jul 4th, 2002, 05:38 PM
Dawn Marie, I know what you mean...I found myself saying shut-up to Chrissy and John several times throughout this championship :fiery:

All Williams, All the Time :)

Gumbycat
Jul 4th, 2002, 05:41 PM
Dawn, you know the deal. It is pathetic how they call it domination when our girls have only been Number 1 and 2 for ONLY a month. It is clear they don't want our girls to be the top two players.

victory1
Jul 4th, 2002, 05:47 PM
Oh my God, me too! Me, my sister, and my cousin were watching together, we kept screaming for them to shut the hell up too!;) They're so obvious!
My sister says, now Vee and Rena are #1 and 2, she hope they play all the remaining Tier 1 together, just to piss them off. :D I mean the girls only play 5 tournaments together and still people won't leave them alone. These people better count their lucky star that there'll be no other all Williams final until the US Open!;)

All Williams All the time!!!

Dawn Marie
Jul 4th, 2002, 05:48 PM
Sam/Gumbycat you are correct I do know the deal, but it is sad to realize that tennis hasn't changed all that much from 40 years ago. People should relish this time in tennis history instead of looking and hoping for ways to bring two exciting players down. Personally I think Chris, John and Mary C are not people who actually appreciate good solid tennis. I think their hate and bias overrides their desire for the sport. They are 3 sad people, and I wish they would stop dissing the rest of the players on the tour as well. I mean DAYUM, Maureen Drake took a set off Venus, so what is she "chopped liver"? The tour has many quality players, if they would only look beneath their upturned noses, they would stop HOPING and PLEADING in their commentaries that ONLY Jen, Hingis and Lindsay are the 3 that can compete with them. It is so not true. They would be better off if they just relax and enjoy the tennis they are watching.

anastasjoy
Jul 4th, 2002, 05:50 PM
I completely agree with you, Dawn Marie. It's possible Lindsay could come back and help make things a little more interesting- she came back very fast from injury last year- but HINGIS? Tell me, what was Hingis doing last year to stop the Williams sisters? Hmmmmm....I think I'll go watch my tape of the U.S. Open semi again just to see how confident and competitive Hingis looked....oh wait.....I guess she looked more like a whipped puppy.

I think it's interesting that last year this time everyone was getting so gung-ho about the possibility of Jennifer sweeping the Slams- getting a Grand Slam. I don't remember people saying, "Oh it would be so BAD for tennis if Jennifer won everything." But now they've got TWO dominant forces- not just one. So you think people would be a little happier! Ha.

Vanity
Jul 4th, 2002, 05:55 PM
wah wah cry about it some more why don't you! :p

adell
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:10 PM
I also agree with most of the posts above, I think that it is very sad that Venus & Serena don't get the credit they deserve. Neither Hingis nor Davenport were beating Serena or Venus consistently before they were injured.

Most of the media say the only reason why the sisters win is due to their power game. Venus came to the net several times during her match with Henin, does she get any credit for that! In my opinion Venus is the most mentally tough player on the tour, even when she is down and has the crowd cheering for her opponents she remains calm and focused and still pulls through but, all the commentators mention is her power and size.

As for the domination point, neither Venus nor Serena have dominated the tour as much as Navratilova, Graf, Seles or Hinigis in their Hay days. It's not like either of them have won all four tournaments.

I also think people should stop thinking of them as one player. What we really have is two great players who are at the top of the game. Just like Evert/Navratilova or Seles/Graf it just happens that these two are sisters.

I hope each of them actually do go on to dominate the tour and get a Grand Slam each.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:14 PM
Sorry Dawn Marie, I respectfully disagree.

I remember many commentators wanting Venus back in the game when she was out.....but the problem was, Chrissie and John weren't on tv when she was out. It was during the spring hardcourt season when Pam Shriver and Mary Joe Fernandez were the main commentators. They both stated repeatedly how Venus was good for the game and if she was to retire (the rumors at time) it would be a great loss.

Just a side note - on the issue regarding Amelie being a lesbian, John McEnroe made me proud once again. He was not the only one to have the balls to say it on air that Amelie was a lesbian, but he also commended her (for the 3rd year in a row) for declaring who she is and not caring about it. :)

Playa
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:21 PM
I was laughing when they brought the "Mauresmo looks like a man thing"
John said that Lindsay meant by those comments that Mauresmo was "Strong" like a man , While Evert said that Hingis implyied that Mauresmo was "muscular" like a man
and all this during a long rally.

Dawn Marie
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:22 PM
We'll just agree to disagree. :)

Gumbycat
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:41 PM
Some power game from Venus? She did not serve any Aces :). Venus has an all court game.

BTW, Venus and Serena just won their Doubles Match :)

Rayny
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:58 PM
I was suprised to hear Evert say that Serena was just going to "overpower" Mauresmo. I'm sorry but MAuresmo is bigger than Serena and hits just as hard. Serena may out-manuever someone like Mauresmo but overpower her?

"Overpower" is the most over-used word in reference to Venus and Serena's matches. There is never a mention of the angles, net play or superb placement of their serve and strokes in the match summaries. It gets old after a while.

Even more annoying than announcers like Evert are the insidious nature of a lot of the posts here. How many threads have there been since the french proclaiming how tennis is dying, or "I don't want a Williams final", or tennis is so boring right now? During the short-lived Hingis/Davenport domination were there as many posts decrying their appearances in the finals of tournaments? Women's tennis must be the only sport where the players are expected to evolve backwards. Anywhere else, the motto is faster, stronger, better. Here we have people whining that the players are too powerful and too fast. Go figure

Amanda
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:04 PM
the same posters that state "I don't want another Williams/Williams final" /I'm not going to watch an all Williams final" are always commenting on how boring the matches are...yet they still watch and whine.....LOL!

Chris Evert and John McEnroe and Martina Navratilova were making some pretty decent comments regarding the tennis games of Venus and Serena---even suggesting what others could do to be more like them.

Gumbycat
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:11 PM
The Tennis Force is strong in the Williams Family :)

TeeRexx
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:17 PM
I think many of the weaker minds are showing signs of a nervous breakdown as a result of Williams wins.

How sad.

Amanda
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:20 PM
LOL @ Tee! It is indeed sad!

"Topaz"
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:40 PM
The hidden engine driving all this has to do with Visible Minority. That engine runs deep and at times silent, but its vibrations are always there. :o

Weevee
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:42 PM
Today I saw the best tennis yet! Unbelievable shots, unbelievable gets! Serena's service game magnificent, Venus very good. Their returns a lot better than any other players that i have seen. They dominate because their returns are so very good. Amelie looked like a great server against Jennifer but looked like Crap against Serena.
I want Lindsay to come back. There will be more opportunities for spectacular play. I hope Martina improves I think the game is leaving her behind.

Althea
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:43 PM
Exactly Dawn...:wavey:

"I haven't heard this kind of DESPERATE talk of injured WTA players to come back and compete EVER? When Venus was out for 6 months and it was Lindsay/Hingis all the time, there were no commentators "crying out for help.":eek: :eek:

Keep on Keeping on Venus and Serena!:kiss: :kiss:
they really shouldn't put this pressure on Lindsay and Martina

Crazy Canuck
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:45 PM
Some people in here really shouldn't talk about other people being sad :o

If you intend something for Williams fans only, wouldn't it make sense to use the Williams forum?

oh, and I like Venus, so by virtue of the title, I am welcome in this thread ;)

TSequoia01
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:59 PM
What the media is really doing is placing huge pressures on Jennifer. They constantly place the responsibility of thwarting an all Williams final. I personally believe she carried that pressure into her match with Mauresmo. After reading Amelie's comments, I am convinced she carried that pressure also. What really is at issue is power. The Williamses have the power to determine who wins these championships. That is the real issue. :cool:

ot1962
Jul 4th, 2002, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Rayny
I was suprised to hear Evert say that Serena was just going to "overpower" Mauresmo. I'm sorry but MAuresmo is bigger than Serena and hits just as hard. Serena may out-manuever someone like Mauresmo but overpower her?

"Overpower" is the most over-used word in reference to Venus and Serena's matches. There is never a mention of the angles, net play or superb placement of their serve and strokes in the match summaries. It gets old after a while.

Women's tennis must be the only sport where the players are expected to evolve backwards. Anywhere else, the motto is faster, stronger, better. Here we have people whining that the players are too powerful and too fast. Go figure

Exactly Rayny!!
I have monitoring the size match-up of players and i found it hilarious when Evert talked about Serena over-powering Mauresmo! My God! Mauresmo must be wasting all those muscles she has!!!

Just like you, i have ALWAYS thought Athletes are EXPECTED to push themselves to LIMITS where ordinary folks like us can never reach. I thought that's what's sports is all about!! Maybe tennis is a Circus?!!!

harloo
Jul 4th, 2002, 09:06 PM
Dawn Marie I completely agree with you. It's just getting out of hand now. Prissy Chrissy dissed the women's tour during Serena's match, and they kept calling for Lindsay and Martina to come back. For what? Lile they were whipping the sisters left and right before they bowed out with injury. This is truly sad, because it makes no sense at all. Give them their credit and move on, geesh it seems like these commentators are so ignorant.

CHOCO
Jul 4th, 2002, 09:20 PM
Dawn - one helluva post!!! :D That's why I love your spirit!!!

I agree with you totally!!! People should sit back and enjoy what Venus/Serena are doing for the game of tennis. They are raising the bar each time they set foot on court. Tennis fans should appreciate them even if they may not be their favorites.

As for Chris, John, Mary and others in the media, it's a shame they are not singing the praises of these two young ladies who display excellence everytime they play. Partly because of Venus and Serena, the WTA is enjoying a boom in popularity.

Well...I'm going to sit back and enjoy BREAKFAST AT WIMBLEDON Saturday morning with my strawberries and cream. :D

GO VEE! GO SERENA! :D

Ryan
Jul 4th, 2002, 09:31 PM
Dawn, if you're going to post something like this, asking no one but Williams sisters fans to come in, do it their PERSONAL forums. Then you won't have people(like me) coming in and calling you an idiot.

moon
Jul 4th, 2002, 09:39 PM
:rolleyes: at Ryan.

anyway, Dawn, I agree with what you said too. You would think that Venus and Serena have been at the top for years the way the announcers are acting. And to think this is only the beginning of the summer, lol.

Gumbycat
Jul 4th, 2002, 10:46 PM
Hi Moon :). Venus and Serena have been Ranked 1 and 2 for less than a month. Go Figure......

Informative
Jul 4th, 2002, 11:32 PM
As most of you already know: The reason McBrat, Evert, and so many others dislike Venus & Serena's domination of the sport is that THEY'RE BLACK. Wow, deep huh? BTW: Arthur Ashe said in his autobiography DAYS OF GRACE that the hardest thing he ever had to deal with in his life by far was RACISM. And he was dying of AIDS for heaven's sake...

Ryan
Jul 4th, 2002, 11:36 PM
Oh please! This is making me sick! Racism is being shouted at anyone who doesn;t grovel at Venus and Serena's feet, and it's getting disgusting.

venusfan
Jul 4th, 2002, 11:51 PM
Williams Fans Only.. And I do believe it's because they are black that they get treated like this. When Chrissy who my friend said looks like a lesbian was playing tennis and dominating, no one mention a thing. The same thing with Hingis in '97, no one said a thing. Everyone was like, how great she is, and she is going to dominate for years. But as soon as the Sisters start seperating themselves from the field, we have people from everyone talking about tennis is boring and they're not good for the game. Heck, if it wasn't for Venus I wouldn't even give a damb about tennis today.

And I'm sure no one was saying crap about ms capriati last year when she went on her little run, though she never could beat Venus. And everyone wishing for Martina and Davenport to come back to give the sisters a challenge?

HELLO, currently the last 3 times Davenport played Venus she lost, and also the last two times she played Serena she lost. Same goes with Hingis, the last two times she played Venus she lost and also lost the last 3 times she played Serena.

It's quite odd, but the sisters are just too good. If they both end up in the final of the US Open, then I don't see them giving up the top two spots until at least next spring around french open time.

Ryan
Jul 4th, 2002, 11:59 PM
Williams Fans Only.. And I do believe it's because they are black that they get treated like this. When Chrissy who my friend said looks like a lesbian was playing tennis and dominating, no one mention a thing. The same thing with Hingis in '97, no one said a thing. Everyone was like, how great she is, and she is going to dominate for years. But as soon as the Sisters start seperating themselves from the field, we have people from everyone talking about tennis is boring and they're not good for the game. Heck, if it wasn't for Venus I wouldn't even give a damb about tennis today.


Where the hell were you when they dominated? Or when Steffi dominated, or Martina N?

Amanda
Jul 5th, 2002, 12:19 AM
Ryan15--Why in the hell are you here? The thread is for "Williams fans ONLY"? btw, it make no difference where Venus and Serena discussions are started, posters like you will always find them, and start a lot of crap. If you don't like them....stay away. How many time do you have to say....I don't like their game...boring...fixed...Richard....

Rocketta
Jul 5th, 2002, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Ryan15



Where the hell were you when they dominated? Or when Steffi dominated, or Martina N?

where were you?

Ryan
Jul 5th, 2002, 12:22 AM
I was very young, and didn't watch tennis. Your point? You didn't answer my question though.

Ryan
Jul 5th, 2002, 12:25 AM
Ryan15--Why in the hell are you here? The thread is for "Williams fans ONLY"? btw, it make no difference where Venus and Serena discussions are started, posters like you will always find them, and start a lot of crap. If you don't like them....stay away. How many time do you have to say....I don't like their game...boring...fixed...Richard....


If this thread is for Williams Fans Only, it should be where it belongs: In the Williams Sisters Forums! It DOES make a difference where these threadds are. I wouldn't start a whole arguement if this was in Venus or Serena' personal forum. It isn't however, so I don't see why I should leave.

Rocketta
Jul 5th, 2002, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Ryan15
I was very young, and didn't watch tennis. Your point? You didn't answer my question though.

I was watching tennis every time it came on. When I started watching Martina Navritolova, Chris Everet, Tracey Austin and Andrea Yagger were the big thing. I believe I started somewhere between '78 and '79.

Ryan
Jul 5th, 2002, 12:26 AM
Really? Cool, I wish I had been around to watch today's tennis greats play. Lucky:p

Amanda
Jul 5th, 2002, 12:33 AM
OK Ryan, since you are here......How do you explain the fact that Venus and Serena were the Champion/Finalists at RG this year when you offered an opinion that they were all power and their game would never adjust to the clay courts...I waited for an answer in the RG thread, but after Venus and Serena reached the RG finals...you ran away...only to return with your crap when you thought it was clear.

Gumbycat
Jul 5th, 2002, 12:35 AM
Here is my race card. It?s the Ace of Spades.

The commentators and press did not make the derogatory comments about past women champions when they won dozens of Grand Slams. There was no vocal condemnation of the reining Champions by the other players. There are many who say these negative things about Venus and Serena because they don't want two black girls winning all of the Grand Slams (which is not likely because there still is a large talent pool in women's tennis). Venus and Serena are meeting for only the third time in a Grand Slam Final. How many times have Evert and Navratilova met in a Grand Slam Final? How many times have Graf and Seles met in a Grand Slam Final? Nobody said anything about those matchups. But now they bitch about Venus and Serena after only 3 Grand Slam Finals.

gweeny
Jul 5th, 2002, 01:10 AM
I agree, I think the TV commentators are over-using the word "Power" or "over-power" when it comes to Venus and Serena. I also watched the two semifinals match, and all I saw between Venus and Serena was precise, all-court tennis. Yes, they are powerful, strong players but they have a lot of variety in their game, that is sometimes ignored by these commentators.

I also agree that Chris Everet's claim that Serena over-powered Ameile is stupid. I believe Mauresmo has about the same or even more muscle mass than Serena.

With all these talk of over-powering, you would think that Serena and Venus are huge body-builders. There are many female tennis players that are larger in muscle mass than Venus, yet they are just not as good as she is.

Amanda
Jul 5th, 2002, 01:12 AM
...Amelie is a perfect example....so is Mary Pierce.

Ryan
Jul 5th, 2002, 07:51 PM
Sorry to bring this sludge back.





OK Ryan, since you are here......How do you explain the fact that Venus and Serena were the Champion/Finalists at RG this year when you offered an opinion that they were all power and their game would never adjust to the clay courts...I waited for an answer in the RG thread, but after Venus and Serena reached the RG finals...you ran away...only to return with your crap when you thought it was clear.


Find me the exact quote where I said they were all power and couldn't adjust to clay.