PDA

View Full Version : Wait a minute! Williams 63-62, 62-61 at the semis! Are they really that unstoppable?


"Topaz"
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:01 PM
Not only they took over the game, they are running away with it!

Now, I'm worried! ... Too much positive stress for me ... too much negative stress for some.

tennischick
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:04 PM
unst? unstoppable? (my best guess). the answer is "Yes". they have raised the bar to a level never seen before. it's up to the others to catch up. the question is: can anyone? realistically? :eek:

Crazy Canuck
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:05 PM
Good for them, I like them both (Venus more) and everything....

But YAWN.

Bring on the men :wavey:

evadafan
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:07 PM
Exactly, yawn.

I guess Maureen Drake and Els Callens are the other top players now.

Oh wait, where are they ranked?

"Topaz"
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:09 PM
Thanks tennischick, the title end was chopped off. Correction has been made.

Vanity
Jul 4th, 2002, 06:28 PM
oh well, there is always the Brussells/Palermo/Casablanca tournaments next week :p

"Topaz"
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Vanity
oh well, there is always the Brussells/Palermo/Casablanca tournaments next week :p
Well, Vanity, have fun next week, or the week after next, or maybe next year.
Meanwhile, some of us will be here watching the unstoppable girls. :)

persond
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Vanity
oh well, there is always the Brussells/Palermo/Casablanca tournaments next week :p



:D Vanity,

Just heard that the Williamses have asked for wildcards for Brussells/Palermo/Casablanca tournaments next week.!!!:p :p

Vanity
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:43 PM
This is why I like the lower tier events, always a surprise... unlike this same old boring routine. :p
i mean, no one is actually watching this for the tennis, are they? i know you people are only interested in gloating about other people's achievements.

Amanda
Jul 4th, 2002, 07:50 PM
you seem to keep up with the "boring" stuff....always commenting on how boring the matches are.....yet you still watch.......WHY?

Lady Clarissa
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:08 AM
Because she can. Plus you allways see other players climbing up the rankings that were lower, and there is more depth IMHO

HeHeHe we sure showed them aye Vanity (Hint Hint) Yes we are trying to get recruitments!! Join up one day, it will be a pleasure

selesrules
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:15 AM
Nobody is unstoppable. First there was Evert, then Navratilova came along, then Graf came along, then Seles came along, then stabbing came along, then Hingis came a long, then Davenport came a long, then Capriati came along, then Williams came along, eventually their turn will come and someone will surplant the Williams. It's normal and it can't be prevented, this is life. New players come along and they higher the standards, the Williams are no exception and they will live through it too. Someone better will come along just like all the champions went through.

Lisbeth
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:22 AM
selesrules, I think you are right!

In the meantime I just hope V and S see this as an ideal opportuniy to come to Australia READY next year so we can actually see this amazing play they seem to save for the Northern summer every year :)

Volcana
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:18 AM
They aren't unstoppable. They are that much better than Justine and Amelie, though.

LucasArg
Jul 5th, 2002, 04:25 AM
Every day they play more amazing:hearts:

I can't understand why some pleople said Justine vs Venus was boring:rolleyes:

Congratulations Girls, you deserve it:wavey: :bounce: :wavey:

Williams Rulez
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:16 AM
They are not unstoppable... players have came close to beating them... but they just that little something else to beat them... dunno what it is.

anton
Jul 5th, 2002, 09:20 AM
http://www.venustennis.com/venus33.jpg
Go Venus! GET SERENA!!!:eek: :wavey:

Raisin
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by selesrules
Nobody is unstoppable. First there was Evert, then Navratilova came along, then Graf came along, then Seles came along, then stabbing came along, then Hingis came a long, then Davenport came a long, then Capriati came along, then Williams came along, eventually their turn will come and someone will surplant the Williams. It's normal and it can't be prevented, this is life. New players come along and they higher the standards, the Williams are no exception and they will live through it too. Someone better will come along just like all the champions went through.

Selesrules, I didn't know the was a player named stabbing:eek: :wavey:

anton
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:35 AM
I think maybe some Seles fans dont want to say that guys name

XMan
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:58 AM
The Williams sisters are just too strong, too powerfull and accurate at the same time. For other players it is almost impossible to beat them on grass where the ball doesn't bounce high enough and doesn't lose some of it speed. Justine hadn't a chance to deploy her game against Venus. Henin can hit a really fast backhand cross-court if she gets the time and can perform her huge swing, Venus on the other hand hits the balls as fast from any postition with a short but powerfull swing. It's the first time in the history of women tennis that girls could really dominate with speed and power alone.

I don't know if it is good for the game that two girls are that dominating on the tour (unless you are a Williams fan of course). A match is only good when two players are playing good tennis but the Williams sisters don't give there opponent a chance to play good and it seems that the matches they play against each other aren't that good eather because they don't know how to handle each other's power. It's also a pity for players as Henin or Mauresmo who would have had certainly a good chance of winning their first grandsslam title at this point in their career if they played in the era of Graf or Navratilova and Evert. I guess that the Williams siters will be a stumbling block in lot's of other occasions too.

Kart
Jul 5th, 2002, 10:58 AM
Scorelines don't really tell us much about the quality of a match - after all it's who comes up with the game on the key points. That said though, they were pretty unstoppable yesterday.

Selesrules is right - eventually someone else will come along and take their place.

For the forseeable future it though looks to be all Williams all the way.

Bright Red
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:09 PM
3 out of the last four GS finals have been nothing but Williams. Umm, yes. I think so :bounce: :bounce:

RAA
Jul 5th, 2002, 02:48 PM
2002 is clearly shaping up as the year of the williams sisters domination.
no, it won't last forever, but I'm going to enjoy the ride.

now when Hingis won 3 of the four slams a few years ago, THAT was boring.

nikita771
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:00 PM
Xman - why do you see Venus and Serena as stumbling blocks to the other players? Instead of thinking that Venus and Serena should be less powerful, fast, and accurate - maybe the other players should catch up. Venus and Serena will not always be such a force. Eventually, people will figure out that the problem does not lie with Venus and Serena. I don't remember too much boredom talk when Martina H was guaranteed a spot in the final. If Jennifer continues to dominate the Australian Open, we probably won't be too upset. The players that have deserved to get the finals have made it and we shouldn't complain - just accept it. Martina, Lindsay, Jennifer, Venus, and Serena are all great champions. They go out there and fight. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose - but they always fight. When they win, why not congratulate them instead of spending so much time complaining because the result that you wanted didn't happen.

mboyle
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:11 PM
Venus and Serena do have weaknesses. If you mix up speeds, spins, angles, and often give them no pace to work with, they start to make errors. So you set up the point with a short slice angle, then bang the ball into the corner for a winner. But really how to beat them is: be able to hit 3 consecutive winners close to the lines on every point without making errors. Have a great serve, move well, have awesome concentration, don't give them anything to attack. It is hard, but if you consistantly play exceptional tennis, you can beat them. I think that a current junior (best chance lies with Sharapova) will come along that will have Venus and Serena's numbers, will take her game to them, and play, fearless, highly concentrated tennis. I have a feeling it might be at the French next year, but I don't know. Until then, have fun when Lindsay and Martina come back. THat way Vee and Ree will still win everything, but at least they will have interesting matches with other players!

supremeross
Jul 5th, 2002, 03:14 PM
If a Williams Sisters domination is boring than please God let me die of boredom. Rock on Venus and Serena. It's funny how no one was "bored" when Lindsay and Martina were trading off on the top two spots in the rankings. Down with the haters up with Serena and Venus.

XMan
Jul 7th, 2002, 09:36 PM
nikita771

There is a big difference between the domination of Serena and Venus now and Hingis a few years ago. Hingis game style doesn't prevent others from playing their game and making their shots, Hingis only outplayed them with her intelligent all-court game. It is something totally different with the Williams sisters today, the power in their strokes is certainly on a fast surface like grass unmanageable for the opponents. The other players are not overclassed, they are overpowered. Venus and Serena are real athletes, they are powerfull athletes who learned to hit the ball hard with a high winner/UE percentage. It's probably not strange that black girls where the first to introduce such an overwhelming power game because they have normally a stronger musculature. They have the ability to generate a lot of power in a short time, that's why the best sprinters of today are all black. Maybe in the future tennis is also a sport dominated by black people (although it remains a lot more technical then sprinting).

The tennis style is also a lot different. Just look when Serena wants to hit a forehand, she can really wait for the ball and then hit a winner with just a short swing. This is something that the other players can't (besides Venus) because they don't have the power to control the ball and to hit him back with that speed, they need a longer swing. Actually, I don't like the style of the Williams sisters, it hasn't much to compare with the amazing clever rallies and beautiful shots of other players like Hingis or Henin. But we can't do anything about it and only the game which is the most succesfull will survive. Will the other player catch up and adapt their style? Well, some of them will never be able to do that because they don't have the physical capacity (Henin,Hingis, ...) others probably could do it (Clijsters, Mauresmo, ...) but it will probably be a new generation of other power players who will detrone the Williams sisters, a new generation that is used to play this type of tennis since their youth.

"Topaz"
Jul 8th, 2002, 12:29 AM
Oh, XMan, you're suffocating me. I understand power and color are highly noticeable, yet don't let yourself be blinded by them. Your bias glistened when you said:
The other players are not overclassed, they are overpowered.
Other people who know the game better than you beg to differ. For starters, go to the post "Exclusive Club Now Includes - Both Venus & Serena" by Gogogirl.

ys
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:58 AM
They are unstoppable and in the league of their own right now. ANyone thinking or suggesting that any other player can really challenge them at USO ( like Henin or Seles, etc ) is simply delusional. The only players I would give a *very* minor chance for that are Capriati and Hingis.

I, however, don't think that WTA is destined for lengthy Williams domination. I think that the domination will end as suddenly as it has started. The problem for Williams sisters now is going to lie in the area of motivation. Are they going to be improving motivated only by their sibling being only real competition? That's going to be hard. I predict that by the end of the next year we are going to have a #1 player not named Williams.

Volcana
Jul 8th, 2002, 04:12 AM
It's probably not strange that black girls where the first to introduce such an overwhelming power game because they have normally a stronger musculature. They have the ability to generate a lot of power in a short time, that's why the best sprinters of today are all black. Maybe in the future tennis is also a sport dominated by black people (although it remains a lot more technical then sprinting).

Tennis may in the future be dominated by Blacks, but its not because of some 'normally stronger musculature' that comes with the skin color. The skin color of the dominat sprinters today is coincidental. Those Blacks are primarily of West African descent. Blacks of West African descent are primarily lousy sprinters but good distance runners. Europeans fall somewhere in the middle. A Scandinavian Olympic coach did a whole research series on this, I'll try to find it for you.)

Or just ask yourself, if Serena is your opponent, who's body do you want to work with, Kim or Chanda?

For that matter, find me another woman is ANY sport with build like Serena. Race is a real big deal in most of the world, but let's not make more of it than it is.

jojoseph
Jul 8th, 2002, 04:20 AM
The sisters are currently in a league of their own. Realistically, the only two people that can stop them would be Hingis and JenCap. However, how Hingis is gonna be healthwise and physically by the US Open is fully debatable so I'd say right now that Jen could give them a run because of the amount of power she has and maybe Seles, but that's about it. Looking at how strong Jen has been at the Australian Open, I don't see how she can't turn the same results at the US Open if she really wants to.

YS brings up motivation, though I don't think that motivation is gonna be a problem in the foreseeable future only because they've been waiting for this their entire life and since they just made it to 1 and 2, I think that the level of tennis that they play when they meet now is gonna get better and better as they get more used to playing each other, more notably with Venus' tennis which has been subpar of late.

eshell
Jul 8th, 2002, 03:54 PM
XMan, your post underlines some very racist assumptions.

1. Black women are no more athletic than non-Black women.
In fact, the genetic diversity of "Black" people precludes this
type of logic. Do your research!

2. The Williams Sisters use strategy on the court as well as
power. Your post seems to imply that they simply hit the ball
without any thought and it magically goes in for a winner.
Those talents are not innate. Tennis players aren't born; they
are created! They practice and get tips just like other players.

3. The Sisters learned many of their tennis techniques from non-
Black coaches. One very prominent example is Rick Macci who
taught them their open stances. Additionally, they attended
Bolliteri's Academy at a young age as well. Again, this was
not an innate ability because they are African-American. They
learned it and have successfully used their teachings.

4. The Williams Sisters are both intelligent women who have
completed high school and seek college degrees. How many
of the players who "think" on the court (by your definition)
can make that claim?

I have several college degrees as well and take umbrage at the implications inherent in your post.

XMan
Jul 8th, 2002, 05:47 PM
I take umbrage at the fact that some people immediatly use the word "racist" as a counterattack when somebody uses the word "black". I am not a racist at all. And by the way, I am a phd student and have college degrees myself.
If you do some research then you should know that the genetic diversity of Black people doesn't preclude the fact that some little genetic diversities between races are possible. Many scientists have researched the topic and pushed by political winds and scientific evidence, there is a continuous debate between the "genetic" arguments and the cultural and socio-economic explanations. This doesn't take away the fact that the statistics clearly show that in a sport like sprinting, the black people are the majority.
And I know that the Williams sisters use strategy on the court as well and play clever but do you really think that this is the main reason why they win all those matches?

eshell
Jul 8th, 2002, 06:39 PM
Gee, Xman, I didn't call you a racist. I said, and I will repeat, "the assumptions were 'racist'". I stand by that.

You're giving the same argument as Jimmy the Greek, the former CBS sportscaster, who claimed the genetic propensity for "Blacks" to have more athletic ability. Without the political winds, please email the proof of your assertion. <<eshell7977@yahoo.com>>

I will read any documentation that you would provide. From one PhD student to another, let's settle this using our training.

Ken

XMan
Jul 8th, 2002, 08:01 PM
Ok, as you wish.

ot1962
Jul 8th, 2002, 09:57 PM
XMan,
You did not respond to Volcana's assertions that Black people from West Africa DOMINATES sprinting (rightly as you said) AND! BLACK people from East Africa DOMINATES long distance and they are not good at sprinting. Could you please explain to us? Thanks in advance.

Oh, and i have been witness to overseas students coming from West Africa and DOMINATING ( or at least competing well) in their classes in Universities in the U.K. and U.S. Can i presume their MUSCULAR advantage enable them to intellectually OVERPOWER their class??? Please, i need your help here. Again, thanks in advance.

evadafan
Jul 8th, 2002, 10:04 PM
Could we stop calling fashion school a "college degree"???

eshell
Jul 9th, 2002, 03:18 PM
A college degree can be conferred by a fashion school. The Fashion Institute of New York confers degrees.

Trade schools confer degrees. Colleges and Universities confer degrees.

It's a matter of semantics, evadafan. What should we call it? A certificate program? If their program only confers certificates, then I will agree with you.

Pureracket
Jul 9th, 2002, 06:18 PM
Xman,
I'm also interested in your study as to how musculature is different and how it determines the outcome of world class sporting events. I think that you will be hard pressed, but I'm willing to read anything.

servenrichie
Jul 10th, 2002, 11:57 AM
Xman, Martina Hingis and Linsay Davenport dominated the Williamses expecially Venus up till the middle of the year 2000. Did Venus amass more muscles after the year 2000, did she grew taller or how come that she now dominates the same players?

Also when you say:
quote: "It's also a pity for players as Henin or Mauresmo who would have had certainly a good chance of winning their first grandsslam title at this point in their career if they played in the era of Graf or Navratilova and Evert. I guess that the Williams siters will be a stumbling block in lot's of other occasions too.
"
Does that mean that Venus and Serena are nothing but an obstacle for the players you mentioned and therefore should dissapear or not participate, so that your favourite players can win Grandslams.
The ladies (graf, Navra., Evert) you mentioned would have had more trophies, were the others not there.
It is called competition.

With the way you reason, you make PHD a joke!

GATORSHORT
Jul 10th, 2002, 05:59 PM
Sevenrichie,Hinghis and Davenport never dominated Serena . She always had a winning record against both of them.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 10th, 2002, 06:17 PM
Whatever. Serena and Venus work hard for their talent, skill, and athletic prowess. You are not born an athelete, you have to train for it. Yes some athletes are blessed to be taller or whatever, but that means nothing without hard work and training.

Also venus and serena are so much better because they employ better tactics strategy and control.