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View Full Version : Brits: anyone else sick to death of "Missing Madeleine"?


!<blocparty>!
May 21st, 2007, 10:20 PM
UGH!!!!!! For goodness sake. If I have to hear one more friggin news report on missing Madeleine and her damn appeal, I'm going to break something. :mad:

:fiery:

There's a lot more stuff going on in the world than a missing British girl abroad. :help:

*abby*
May 21st, 2007, 10:23 PM
bit harsh tim
a little girl has been snatched, her parents are desperate to find her
there are a lot of people who care about her safe return and want to be kept up to date with the investigation.
imagine if it was ur little sister

!<blocparty>!
May 21st, 2007, 10:27 PM
bit harsh tim
a little girl has been snatched, her parents are desperate to find her
there are a lot of people who care about her safe return and want to be kept up to date with the investigation.
imagine if it was ur little sister

Little girls are snatched every day. Hundreds of children go missing every day. Why should I have to hear or even care about this one particular girl every day for THREE WEEKS.

Monica_Rules
May 21st, 2007, 10:38 PM
Yeah bit harsh. I may be fed up with the coverage but i understand why its being done.

Its important to keep the search in the news so people are aware of it.

I think its become so big cos it was a british family abroad, also it may be a factor that both parents are doctors. I have a friend who should be working with the dad in a hospital in leicter now.

Monica_Rules
May 21st, 2007, 10:39 PM
Forgot to add, i don't think it looks good.

From watching Without a trace children who aren't found withint the first 48/92 hours not sure which one either don't turn up at all or are dead.

!<blocparty>!
May 21st, 2007, 10:41 PM
Yeah bit harsh. I may be fed up with the coverage but i understand why its being done.

Its important to keep the search in the news so people are aware of it.

I think its become so big cos it was a british family abroad, also it may be a factor that both parents are doctors. I have a friend who should be working with the dad in a hospital in leicter now.

No kidding. :lol: Can you just imagine how drastically different this coverage would have been if the parents were chavs from Liverpool. :rolleyes:

CondiLicious
May 21st, 2007, 10:48 PM
No kidding. :lol: Can you just imagine how drastically different this coverage would have been if the parents were chavs from Liverpool. :rolleyes:

Well for a start they would have been lynched to death for leaving their 3 kids unattended while they went out for a meal and a drink...

ShotSpot
May 21st, 2007, 11:02 PM
You're a terrible person

drake3781
May 21st, 2007, 11:10 PM
Yes, I know what you mean.

As a sociologist, it's very interesting how one in a large number of these stories really take off and get so much publicity. (For me, I was just curious what part of Portugal they were vacationing in, because I'd love to go to Portugal sometime. :p )

I was just looking at a band on Myspace, for ex, and I noticed they had some kind of link or logo for Madeline. What can we do? :shrug:

*abby*
May 21st, 2007, 11:18 PM
all u can do is stay alert, noone knows whereabouts in the world that little girl could be if shes still alive. someone might have seem a shifty looking guy in the area, you never know what little scrap of info can help

The Daviator
May 21st, 2007, 11:20 PM
Well I sort of agree, I really want her to be found, and I feel for her family, but having it as the main news item when there are no new developments, nothing new in the search, etc. is weird :shrug:

Still, it's a sad situation :sad:

!<blocparty>!
May 21st, 2007, 11:20 PM
Yes, I know what you mean.

As a sociologist, it's very interesting how one in a large number of these stories really take off and get so much publicity. (For me, I was just curious what part of Portugal they were vacationing in, because I'd love to go to Portugal sometime. :p )

I was just looking at a band on Myspace, for ex, and I noticed they had some kind of link or logo for Madeline. What can we do? :shrug:

Donate to the Missing Madeleine Fund (http://www.findmadeleine.com/news/fund.asp)!! They've apparently recieved or raised close to £3 million pounds now altogether. A businessman has offered a £1 million reward for information and colleague of the girl's mother has also offered £100,000.00. It's ridiculous.

*abby*
May 21st, 2007, 11:30 PM
why is it ridiculous?
if it makes someone come forward with info and madeleine gets found as a result of that info then its a good thing
her family are desperate to get her back and people understand that and want to help

!<blocparty>!
May 21st, 2007, 11:34 PM
why is it ridiculous?
if it makes someone come forward with info and madeleine gets found as a result of that info then its a good thing
her family are desperate to get her back and people understand that and want to help

As I've already said, kids are snatched and children go missing every day, hundreds of them. Why should I care or even donate money to this particular one?

OK, so they were in Portugal, she's pretty, her parents are doctors. But seriously, why has it been front page news here for three weeks!

-Sonic-
May 21st, 2007, 11:38 PM
Well for a start they would have been lynched to death for leaving their 3 kids unattended while they went out for a meal and a drink...

I don't watch the news apart from when I'm getting ready for work, and thats only to see if the hot weatherman my mate is shagging is on..... but they did that? :eek: Jeez what idiots.... why is this not highlighted more? :eek:

~Cherry*Blossom~
May 22nd, 2007, 12:41 AM
I agree. They had this topic on Question Time last Thursday (yes I watch that show, it's very good) and they all basically agreed. What makes her special and her deserving of the media coverage over another missing child?

Sugar_Kane
May 22nd, 2007, 12:43 AM
As I've already said, kids are snatched and children go missing every day, hundreds of them. Why should I care or even donate money to this particular one?

OK, so they were in Portugal, she's pretty, her parents are doctors. But seriously, why has it been front page news here for three weeks!

So just because children are snatched everyday we should stop caring about this one. You'll be surprised at how few British children are actually kidnapped, that is why when it does happen the country seems to stop.

Sally Struthers
May 22nd, 2007, 12:46 AM
We have that story over here and I'm sick of it :lol:

!<blocparty>!
May 22nd, 2007, 12:49 AM
I agree. They had this topic on Question Time last Thursday (yes I watch that show, it's very good) and they all basically agreed. What makes her special and her deserving of the media coverage over another missing child?

Question Time is a great show, but since I don't actually watch TV on my TV (US TV torrent junkie here :tape:) I always seem to miss it. :(

I'm not surprised they all basically agreed. :angel:

!<blocparty>!
May 22nd, 2007, 12:54 AM
So just because children are snatched everyday we should stop caring about this one. You'll be surprised at how few British children are actually kidnapped, that is why when it does happen the country seems to stop.

If we don't care about the others, then yes. *repeats for third time* Why does one missing girl constantly grab headlines for three weeks.

*abby*
May 22nd, 2007, 12:54 AM
wow people can be so callous

*abby*
May 22nd, 2007, 12:56 AM
if all the cases of children getting kidnapped were publicised then yes people would care
i do agree that perhaps people care more because she is so young and cute but regardless of that, she is a little girl who was taken from her family.
people should care. end of.

!<blocparty>!
May 22nd, 2007, 01:00 AM
wow people can be so callous

Since I created this thread 260 minutes ago, 2600 children in the world died of malnutrition. I didn't think or care about any one of those 2600 children because I was playing on my Nintendo Wii.

And I'm 'callous' and 'terrible' for being sick of hearing the story of one missing rich girl for three weeks.

~Cherry*Blossom~
May 22nd, 2007, 01:12 AM
I don't think the people who are saying they are tired of hearing the news about Maddie don't want her to be found. Of course they do, but with me I don't understand why this girl deserves to get more media attention to help find her than another child who is missing. If I was a parent of another missing child at this time I'd probably be angry at the media. End up resenting the family, since my child wouldn't be getting anything like the coverage her and her family have had.

That being said, I do hope she is found.

new-york
May 22nd, 2007, 01:45 AM
if all the cases of children getting kidnapped were publicised then yes people would care
i do agree that perhaps people care more because she is so young and cute but regardless of that, she is a little girl who was taken from her family.
people should care. end of.

it's about proportion, not overshadowing the rest of the things people should care about because this highlight is prettier.
to begin with.

CondiLicious
May 22nd, 2007, 02:04 AM
I don't watch the news apart from when I'm getting ready for work, and thats only to see if the hot weatherman my mate is shagging is on..... but they did that? :eek: Jeez what idiots.... why is this not highlighted more? :eek:

Good question. Why is this not highlighted more? I think perhaps because we can all imagine what they are going through - they know they did wrong by leaving the kids alone and are paying the price right now. A terrible price. But I think another reason why it isn't highlighted more is the fact that they are a well-to-do family. Like I suggested, if they were "chavs" then leaving their kids alone would have been more of a "big deal" in the media.

The restaurant was nearby and they were checking on the kids every 30 minutes. But... I certainly wouldn't leave 3 kids, all of them 3 years and under alone for that long. All kinds of things could happen... and did happen. They must be going through hell right now knowing that if they had put their kids in the childcare facilities that the complex they were staying in offered then this may not have happened.

CondiLicious
May 22nd, 2007, 02:17 AM
I don't understand why this girl deserves to get more media attention to help find her than another child who is missing. If I was a parent of another missing child at this time I'd probably be angry at the media. End up resenting the family, since my child wouldn't be getting anything like the coverage her and her family have had.

That being said, I do hope she is found.

It happens all the time in the US. The pretty kid gets all the media attention and the not so pretty kid gets the minimum. Actually, it's not quite like that. It's more the white kid gets all the attention. The black kid gets the minimum. For example, Elizabeth Smart went missing... she was pretty, came from a good family. It was a huge deal in the media - world wide. Around the same time a black girl, about 7 or 8 years old (younger than Elizabeth!) went missing and it didn't receive even half the attention of the Smart kidnapping. I don't even remember her name...

~Cherry*Blossom~
May 22nd, 2007, 02:20 AM
I thought I had heard that story before, but then I remembered it was on Without A Trace.

Direwolf
May 22nd, 2007, 02:39 AM
It happens all the time in the US. The pretty kid gets all the media attention and the not so pretty kid gets the minimum. Actually, it's not quite like that. It's more the white kid gets all the attention. The black kid gets the minimum. For example, Elizabeth Smart went missing... she was pretty, came from a good family. It was a huge deal in the media - world wide. Around the same time a black girl, about 7 or 8 years old (younger than Elizabeth!) went missing and it didn't receive even half the attention of the Smart kidnapping. I don't even remember her name...

another race issue??
If Beyonce had a daughter...and got kidnapped at one year of age
do you think that it wouldnt get as much media attention than that
pretty WHITE girl...
im not saying that yer a racist...
but why would you bring that up?
do you think that racism or any fucking discrimination would ever stop??
no.. never...
who why do fucking people have to bring it up all the time??


Of course news can be sickening especially if you watch it everyday...
the same thing happens everyday anyway..
vehicle crash, robbers/thieves/burglars
someone died, politics, sports
news...

Its like Jelena Jankovic who has played everyweek,
its not like that things they are doing are bad,
but too much of something is almost worse than doing nothing...

And those rich parents would spend every amount of their money
just to find that precious jewel they lost
even if they go broke,
why dont you just offer a good prayer instead
of being a hater,
one advice..!!! dont let the news get to you..!!
the more you think about it, the more involve you become...
y not just play Sudoku while you watch the news?...


One thing i dont know is, why some rich guy have to donate 1 million dollars/pounds...
i mean...arent they just giving the parents lots of false hope...
its not like the more money they donate the easier to catch the kidnappers,
dont they have those intelligent reports thing...

did they receive any ransom notes of some kind?
if not, dont you/they think that she is already dead???

CondiLicious
May 22nd, 2007, 03:19 AM
another race issue??
If Beyonce had a daughter...and got kidnapped at one year of age
do you think that it wouldnt get as much media attention than that
pretty WHITE girl...

It would get attention because it was Beyonce's daughter. She's a singer with lots and lots of fans. You didn't think this argument through, did you?

The average missing black kid doesn't get much media attention. There are countless examples. Fact.

Race is an issue in all kinds of areas, whether you like it or not.

And I brought it up because... I can. :)

RatedR Superstar
May 22nd, 2007, 03:54 AM
UGH!!!!!! For goodness sake. If I have to hear one more friggin news report on missing Madeleine and her damn appeal, I'm going to break something. :mad:

:fiery:

There's a lot more stuff going on in the world than a missing British girl abroad. :help:

i feel sorry for the parents, but the whole thing reminds me of an episode of CSI miami in where theres a young blonde girl went missing and the media made it a big deal, yet, there are other young colored/hispanic girls that were also missing but the media just doesnt care about..

CondiLicious
May 22nd, 2007, 04:09 AM
i feel sorry for the parents, but the whole thing reminds me of an episode of CSI miami in where theres a young blonde girl went missing and the media made it a big deal, yet, there are other young colored/hispanic girls that were also missing but the media just doesnt care about..

I saw that one! It was the "tennis prodigy" episode.

Marshmallow
May 22nd, 2007, 04:20 AM
:lol: You have no idea how refreshing it is to have someone basically take the words right out of my mouth, with respect to this issue. OMG!!! This has been an absolutely ridiculous. Yellow ribbons, Celebrities getting involved in the appeal, websites and video-messages transmitted to MILLIONS. It’s a tragic situation and I’m sure everyone hopes they find her alive and well (though what are the chances…). But the media sensation that has been produced by this has been sickening actually.

Initially I thought about possible discrimination going on. Would there be this much attention is ‘madeline’ was an ethnic minority child? Older? Basically note you’re cute blonde hair, blue eyed ‘doll’. While I think it plays a role, I think this side of things is comparatively minor. It seems as though there was basically not much else to report in the News so this story became the headline, and because it became a headline, more people were informed and the fact that she is a cute little blue eyed… *yawn*, the story stirred up an emotive response and VOILA… media sensation.

This story is not unique or specially deserving of its attention, it’s just an opportunistic hit IMO. Right timing.

Side-notes: On Maddy’s Bday there was that whole Yellow ribbon charade. On te birthday of that kidnapped BBC journalist (older man), there were no ribbons, nothing!

She was went missing in Portugal, and I week or so ago, there was man basically advertising his book about how Paedophilia was riffe in Portugal (he was on Sky news). Perfect example of how carried away and over the top this story has been.

… hmm.. looks like a little vent there. But in short… I agree totally with the original post. Good job! :lol:

Marshmallow
May 22nd, 2007, 04:23 AM
it's about proportion, not overshadowing the rest of the things people should care about because this highlight is prettier.
to begin with.


:worship: Perfect response. Totally agree. Was intending to good rep you ... AGAIN :lol: but it won't let me. :(

Libertango
May 22nd, 2007, 07:38 AM
I do agree actually. What gets me is the celebrity support behind the search, and the prize money - why haven't other missing cases had the same attention?! As you guys have said, my guess is that if this was one ugly child, from a poor working-class family, J.K Rowling et. al wouldn't be quite so keen to part with their money.

That being said, of course I do hope they find her safe and well, though it looks very unlikely now.

saki
May 22nd, 2007, 08:22 AM
The £3 million reward could save hundreds of thousands of children in the third world. It's frightening that people care soooo much more about one child from their own country.

Kart
May 22nd, 2007, 08:57 AM
I think it's exceptionally hard on parents of other missing children to watch celebrities get in on the act one after the other. It's not like they need the publicity.

I would far rather David Beckham and whoever else appealed for another missing child that no one has heard of - which would surely be the point.

That said, I can't say I'm sick to death of it as it would be nice for the girl to be found.

Not that I think she will be so late on, sadly.

Libertango
May 22nd, 2007, 09:06 AM
The £3 million reward could save hundreds of thousands of children in the third world. It's frightening that people care soooo much more about one child from their own country.

An excellent point.

bionic71
May 22nd, 2007, 09:09 AM
I must say that I am not at all put off by the continued stories regarding her abduction.

Obviously she is not the only child ever to be abducted, and I am certain she was not the only child abducted that week, or today for that matter.....
and that is the point as far as I am concerned.

Children are taken, for a myriad of horrible reasons, every single day across the world. So much so that we are almost numb to the notion....children murdered, sexually abused, sold into slavery or into illegal adoption rings (an almost exhaustive list of vileness).

If publicity regarding Madeleine raises awareness of child abduction and abuse across the world then I have no problem running the story on a continuous loop. Madeleine represents all the children abducted and abused, every single day.

Libertango
May 22nd, 2007, 09:15 AM
But this isn't an out-and-out child abuse case IMO. This is an abduction, and for all we know, Madeleine may not have suffered any kind of "abuse" (it's unlikely, but...) I'm not really sure how this case "raises awareness" - we all know it happens, and it's always going to be upsetting. This isn't going to stop it happening again and again.

V-MAC
May 22nd, 2007, 10:22 AM
Some very good valid points made in this thread :worship:

fifiricci
May 22nd, 2007, 10:34 AM
bit harsh tim
a little girl has been snatched, her parents are desperate to find her
there are a lot of people who care about her safe return and want to be kept up to date with the investigation.
imagine if it was ur little sister

It is awful and I feel for all of them, mostly for that poor little girl. But her parents are partly to blame for bloody well leaving her and her brother and sister on their own in the first place! Even if they were only 100 yards away, they should not have left the children alone. I haven't read a lot of the media articles about this, but someone told me at the weekend that the parents regularly left the children alone in the apartment when they went out to eat, which is basically asking for trouble. Why didn't they use the available baby sitting service? God knows, being a GP and a hospital consultant, between them they must be on at least a cool £250,000 a year, so its not as though they can't afford it.

So, yes, it's a dreadful thing to happen, but I am getting a little fed up of it.

I reckon the media will start to wind down the interest if Madeleine isn't found by the weekend - pointless covering a situation that has no news in it.

Yasmine
May 22nd, 2007, 10:45 AM
What annoys me with media and such an event is that they'll over do it for a while. Which is absolutely fine because everyone wants this little girl to be found. And then nothing more after a week or two as if case was closed when in fact it's not and kid is still missing.

Libertango
May 22nd, 2007, 10:47 AM
I just saw on the news that two women have flown over to Portugal to hand out flyers, posters, raise awareness etc. these are two (seemingly) working-class women who have ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECTION to the family ... WTH?!

Marcus1979
May 22nd, 2007, 10:57 AM
I don't watch the news apart from when I'm getting ready for work, and thats only to see if the hot weatherman my mate is shagging is on..... but they did that? :eek: Jeez what idiots.... why is this not highlighted more? :eek:

details please :angel:

Halardfan
May 22nd, 2007, 11:00 AM
The legitimate questions about whether there would be this fuss had the circumstances been different are best left for another day...the point of the campaign is to keep a fickle media and public interested enough, so that maybe just maybe someone who sees the coverage will see the girl somewhere in the world and that she can be found.

thegoose
May 22nd, 2007, 11:04 AM
I hope the parents are prosecuted for neglect. They should be and have their other two children taken away. Does not seem likely though. Cannot believe two DOCTORS would leave three children under five alone, in a foreign country when there was childcare available!!

Libertango
May 22nd, 2007, 11:30 AM
I hope the parents are prosecuted for neglect. They should be and have their other two children taken away. Does not seem likely though. Cannot believe two DOCTORS would leave three children under five alone, in a foreign country when there was childcare available!!

I think alot of people agree with you.

SJW
May 22nd, 2007, 11:32 AM
I want to know what makes this little girl so different from millions of other little (not so blonde and angelic-looking :)) children that go missing :confused: Is it because her parents were stupid enough to go out and leave her unattended in a foreign country? Hands up if you would do the same, people. Nope, thought not.

The media is a pile of shit. But we knew that already.

I hope for her safe return, but this is something that could have been prevented with a little bit of common sense.

!<blocparty>!
May 22nd, 2007, 11:33 AM
I just saw on the news that two women have flown over to Portugal to hand out flyers, posters, raise awareness etc. these are two (seemingly) working-class women who have ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECTION to the family ... WTH?!

Really sad.

Thanks for the replies everyone... nice to see I'm not alone here. :worship:

SJW
May 22nd, 2007, 11:41 AM
I hope the parents are prosecuted for neglect. They should be and have their other two children taken away. Does not seem likely though. Cannot believe two DOCTORS would leave three children under five alone, in a foreign country when there was childcare available!!

Never gonna happen. Like some people have already said, they're middle class, not chavs.

Do any of you guys remember some woman who went away for a couple of days and left her kid by himself? He was about 10, but he was ok when she came back, but she got absolutely SLAUGHTERED by the media when she came back. Then again she was a bit trashy, so I guess it's ok :rolleyes:

Monica_Rules
May 22nd, 2007, 11:51 AM
Slight difference in going away on holiday and leaving your kids, to leaving your kids sleeping in a bedroom whilst your having dinner.

Granted i would do nither but still.

Monica_Rules
May 22nd, 2007, 11:51 AM
Plus i'm pretty sure that woman was pretty unapologetic about ti.

Kart
May 22nd, 2007, 02:22 PM
I hope the parents are prosecuted for neglect. They should be and have their other two children taken away. Does not seem likely though. Cannot believe two DOCTORS would leave three children under five alone, in a foreign country when there was childcare available!!

I don't see what their being doctors or middle class has to do with this - people are people, they make ill-judged mistakes whatever their background.

Viktymise
May 22nd, 2007, 04:06 PM
Well for a start they would have been lynched to death for leaving their 3 kids unattended while they went out for a meal and a drink...

When i heard they did this a few weeks, any sympathy i had for them just went out the window. No decent parent would ever leave children alone in a villa or whatever on their own while they wined and dined, yet still the recieve as much sympathy and coverage possible :o

MatchpointPRT
May 22nd, 2007, 04:55 PM
I think this is happening because that kind of crime doesn´t happen too much here in Portugal and also because its all the media from 2 countries. It´s true that many other horrible things are happening in the world at the same time but its not because some aren´t helped in one place that we won´t help others and do nothing in the other place, that is a pathetic thinking... so if they are doing all they can to find her it´s understandable particularly if it´s inside a country that doesn´t have many similar cases. About the parents and what they did, they were negligents even going to seem them from 15 to 15 minutes, but they never thought that would happen. They can be prosecuted by negligence but this isn´t a common negligence where you just cause damage to other person. In this case they caused damage probably to their daughter(in many possible ways) but they obviously are paying the price and i believe that is being really terrible days for them, so that would be taken into account in justice.

Thanx4nothin
May 22nd, 2007, 06:31 PM
UGH!!!!!! For goodness sake. If I have to hear one more friggin news report on missing Madeleine and her damn appeal, I'm going to break something. :mad:

:fiery:

There's a lot more stuff going on in the world than a missing British girl abroad. :help:

YOUR SUCH A FUCKING LOSER YOU KNOW THAT!

Pengwin
May 22nd, 2007, 06:34 PM
YOUR SUCH A FUCKING LOSER YOU KNOW THAT!

Congrats on the 100% in English Literature AS level :)

raquel
May 22nd, 2007, 06:40 PM
The average missing black kid doesn't get much media attention. There are countless examples. Fact.


You're right. It's even on Wikipedia ;) Missing White Girl Syndrome - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_girl_syndrome

I agree with Tim - if this family was from Glasgow or Liverpool or Newcastle then the parents would be vilified for going down the road to the pub and running back every 30 minutes to check and would have a queue of people willing to sell stories on how bad they were. The restaurant wasn't even right across the road. Not close enough to see from where they were sitting exactly everything that was going on -

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42928000/jpg/_42928321_portugal_sat_resort416.jpg

I hope the girl is found safe and well but she's getting a lot more publicity than a lot of missing children get.

Conor
May 22nd, 2007, 06:43 PM
UGH!!!!!! For goodness sake. If I have to hear one more friggin news report on missing Madeleine and her damn appeal, I'm going to break something. :mad:

:fiery:

There's a lot more stuff going on in the world than a missing British girl abroad. :help:

How insensitve can you be??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Bet if it was somebody in your family you wouldn't be saying this.... I hope the news keep showing it, the more its publicised the better...

fifiricci
May 22nd, 2007, 07:02 PM
I don't see what their being doctors or middle class has to do with this - people are people, they make ill-judged mistakes whatever their background.

I didn't want to get into this part of the debate, but I have to say that the papers do seem to have been incredibly kind to these two doctors when leaving their three children alone to go out to dinner (which apparently they did on a regular basis while on holiday). As another poster has already said, if the parents had been chavs off a council estate I would bet my bottom dollar that the press would have been much more judgmental. It does seem that different rules are applied, according to your class. I haven't seen one headline asking WHY the parents saw fit to leave the children and not use a babysitting service they can well afford.

All that said, I fee awful for them and even more awful for the little girl. If she's still alive, Christ only knows what she's going through.

CondiLicious
May 22nd, 2007, 09:13 PM
I didn't want to get into this part of the debate, but I have to say that the papers do seem to have been incredibly kind to these two doctors when leaving their three children alone to go out to dinner (which apparently they did on a regular basis while on holiday). As another poster has already said, if the parents had been chavs off a council estate I would bet my bottom dollar that the press would have been much more judgmental. It does seem that different rules are applied, according to your class. I haven't seen one headline asking WHY the parents saw fit to leave the children and not use a babysitting service they can well afford.

All that said, I fee awful for them and even more awful for the little girl. If she's still alive, Christ only knows what she's going through.

I think that people can appreciate that they are going through a terrible ordeal right now and that they are probably beating themselves up over the fact they left their kids alone. They have enough to worry about. I bet if she's found safe and well (unlikely...) then we'll be seeing plenty of stories on the neglect part of the case.

ViennaCalling
May 22nd, 2007, 09:38 PM
I remember the Natascha Kampusch story in Austria ..... i can't stand this girl after her "escape" ... four weeks all newspapers wrote about her fate - and she was giving 1000 interviews - too much is too much :fiery:

But i hope Madeleine is alive :sad:

Monica_Rules
May 22nd, 2007, 09:42 PM
You're right. It's even on Wikipedia ;) Missing White Girl Syndrome - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_girl_syndrome

I agree with Tim - if this family was from Glasgow or Liverpool or Newcastle then the parents would be vilified for going down the road to the pub and running back every 30 minutes to check and would have a queue of people willing to sell stories on how bad they were. The restaurant wasn't even right across the road. Not close enough to see from where they were sitting exactly everything that was going on




In case you haven't noticed the mum is from liverpool as is all her family.

!<blocparty>!
May 23rd, 2007, 01:52 AM
that's taking it a bit too far.


Blame Facebook.

PaulHopkins
May 23rd, 2007, 02:01 AM
Blame Facebook.

It's awful that the young girl has been taken but I do agree with you that this whole "active nation" business has gone too far - just as when the country broke down with the death of Diana, Queen Mother or during the Louise Woodward trial etc. People get too caught up in things.

I hope to god she is found though.

SJW
May 23rd, 2007, 06:49 AM
In case you haven't noticed the mum is from liverpool as is all her family.

Knew there had to be a reason why the little girl supported Everton.
No normal people support Everton.

hwanmig
May 23rd, 2007, 07:03 AM
I do hope she is found alive but the attention that this story has receive is ridiculous.

Kart
May 23rd, 2007, 08:49 AM
I didn't want to get into this part of the debate, but I have to say that the papers do seem to have been incredibly kind to these two doctors when leaving their three children alone to go out to dinner (which apparently they did on a regular basis while on holiday). As another poster has already said, if the parents had been chavs off a council estate I would bet my bottom dollar that the press would have been much more judgmental. It does seem that different rules are applied, according to your class. I haven't seen one headline asking WHY the parents saw fit to leave the children and not use a babysitting service they can well afford.

I hadn't really looked at it that way - it's a fair point about the kid gloves attitude of the media but then it's fickle at the best of times.

I was thinking more that they shouldn't be credited with superior judgement on parenting skills because of their class - being medics doesn't make them experts in bringing up kids.

All parents should have known better or, put another way, all parents can make bad judgment calls.

I wouldn't support the media crucifying a bunch of council estate chavs any more than I'd support it crucifying these guys - they are, after all, paying big time for their misjudgement.

Halardfan
May 23rd, 2007, 09:31 AM
Its kind of this inverted prejudice going on...its well know that certain factors contribute to the media running with a story like this...and that these factors are sometimes shameful.

However, as a consequence some people seem to be using the fact that they are middle class, white etc as a stick to beat them, as though the little girl had any control over her background or parentage. Which doesn't make them any better than the cyncial media surely?

Ceri
May 23rd, 2007, 10:37 AM
As I've already said, kids are snatched and children go missing every day, hundreds of them. Why should I care or even donate money to this particular one?

OK, so they were in Portugal, she's pretty, her parents are doctors. But seriously, why has it been front page news here for three weeks!
Because the media likes to sensationalize things, and it is perfect news fodder and sustains readership. perhaps the editor actually cares. whatever - for what it's worth, all redit to them. The coverage will die down eventually, hopefully because all this publicity means she'll be discovered rather that become just another missing child statistic.

St.Sebastian
May 23rd, 2007, 10:43 AM
I totally agree with most of your views. Enough is enough. Yesterday the management of my company put posters of her all over the office and what's with all those people wearing yellow ribbons now :confused:

It seems like it's "trendy" and "cool" to care for the little girl...

Grachka
May 23rd, 2007, 11:10 AM
I'm sick of all the coverage because it is 'nothing coverage'...self indulgent media hacks 'reporting' on the every move of anyone even remotely linked with the case for no reason whatsoever. "Mrs McCann is reported to be eating cereal this morning, we can only imagine what she is going through...etc. etc.". Other hugely important news is played down and not mentioned so that we can hear that people have been praying.

I do admire the way the family have used the media to keep it in the public eye so effectively, but I think people are getting sympathy fatigue.

Also the fact that the suspect has been been tried and executed by the media already, despite the fact that there is no evidence and he is not under arrest, is nauseating. It shows the tabloid media for what they really are...a bloodthirsty pack who have no real interest in finding the girl in the first place, just a juicy, quick "SNATCH-SEARCH-FIND CRIMINAL-EXECUTE" story that they can plaster on their paper for a fortnight.

Rocketta
May 23rd, 2007, 05:55 PM
I wouldn't support the media crucifying a bunch of council estate chavs any more than I'd support it crucifying these guys - they are, after all, paying big time for their misjudgement.

I'm going to have to disagree with this....sounds like the parents aren't paying shit for their selfishness. The little girl is paying the ultimate price for their misjudgement. How they are not charged with child endangerment is beyond me? It's not like they were in a park and the kid walked away or was snatched. They actively made the decision to leave 3 toddlers alone to go eat....something that could never be confused with an emergency.

I hate that their little girl is paying the price right now but really the parents should be held accountable as well, it's their job to care for and protect their children and not leave them as sitting ducks for predators.

Helen Lawson
May 23rd, 2007, 06:00 PM
It's not really in the American media. I listen to BBC world news in the morning, and it's international stuff, there is nothing about this girl.

You guys have your Natalie Holloway now. Is it all over the news because of sensationalism, or do they think the girl has been kidnapped and want someone to recognize her if they see her.

PaulHopkins
May 23rd, 2007, 06:03 PM
To be fair two weeks on it is starting to get buried in the British media and some lesser stories are taking priority. It will only regain momentum if some new news appears.

Henin's the best
May 23rd, 2007, 06:30 PM
In Belgium it's all about Madeleine as well. It's really annoying. It's very hard for her parents. But enough is enough. In our country there are also a lot girls missing, I'm quite sure that there isn't media attention abroad for those girls.

Naranoc
May 23rd, 2007, 06:36 PM
Plus the additional fact that many people can revel in blaming the Portugese police for everything, and the standard celebrities jumping onto the issue to express how sorry they are, etc etc :rolleyes:

Of course the whole issue is saddening, but the excessive coverage really boils down to Madeleine being a white, female pretty middle-class toddler.

PaulHopkins
May 23rd, 2007, 06:42 PM
Plus the additional fact that many people can revel in blaming the Portugese police for everything, and the standard celebrities jumping onto the issue to express how sorry they are, etc etc :rolleyes:

Of course the whole issue is saddening, but the excessive coverage really boils down to Madeleine being a white, female pretty middle-class toddler.

I totally agree with you. We are too polite a nation to even suggest blaming the parents - who are clearly in the wrong by leaving the young girl on her own. Whilst I agree with doing everything possible for her safe return, the "tributes" etc. are way over the top.

Kart
May 24th, 2007, 08:26 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with this....sounds like the parents aren't paying shit for their selfishness. The little girl is paying the ultimate price for their misjudgement. How they are not charged with child endangerment is beyond me? It's not like they were in a park and the kid walked away or was snatched. They actively made the decision to leave 3 toddlers alone to go eat....something that could never be confused with an emergency.

I hate that their little girl is paying the price right now but really the parents should be held accountable as well, it's their job to care for and protect their children and not leave them as sitting ducks for predators.

Giving the parents grief or charging them with child endangerment achieves what exactly ?

Sugar_Kane
May 24th, 2007, 08:44 AM
I doubt she's even alive anymore, she's probably in some ditch somewhere.

drake3781
May 24th, 2007, 09:07 AM
I doubt she's even alive anymore, she's probably in some ditch somewhere.

OT but I've been wondering if you are a Sonic Youth fan?

alfonsojose
May 24th, 2007, 10:50 AM
No kidding. :lol: Can you just imagine how drastically different this coverage would have been if the parents were chavs from Liverpool. :rolleyes:

Well said. It reminds me of the american girl missing in Aruba. White, rich and pretty :rolleyes:

alfonsojose
May 24th, 2007, 10:52 AM
Plus the additional fact that many people can revel in blaming the Portugese police for everything, and the standard celebrities jumping onto the issue to express how sorry they are, etc etc :rolleyes:

Of course the whole issue is saddening, but the excessive coverage really boils down to Madeleine being a white, female pretty middle-class toddler.

:yeah:

gentenaire
May 24th, 2007, 11:04 AM
endangerment is beyond me? It's not like they were in a park and the kid walked away or was snatched. They actively made the decision to leave 3 toddlers alone to go eat.....

The toddlers were asleep in their beds. The parents know best whether or not they wake up a lot at night. Had they been asleep in the same apartment, Madeleine still could have been snatched. Just think of Elizabeth Smart. She was kidnapped from her own bedroom while her parents were home.
The parents weren't far, they checked up on the children often.
It's not that easy to find a babysitter when you're on holiday. Leaving them with a sitter at the complex would mean waking the children up again to take them back to the apartment afterwards. If you're not gone for very long and are not very far, it's easier to just let them sleep and check every now and then. Really, this case is pretty unique. It's not as if it's a commom occurance to snatch children from their bedroom. It's not something you think about. The parents probably thought the worst that could happen was that one of the children would wake up.
It's not recommendable to leave children alone like that, but it's not a case of child endangerment. You can't protect children against everything. Parents who smoke in front of their children, parents who don't force their children to wear a seatbelt are endangering them far more.


(that said, I agree the media whoopla is exaggerated )

saki
May 24th, 2007, 11:14 AM
The toddlers were asleep in their beds. The parents know best whether or not they wake up a lot at night. Had they been asleep in the same apartment, Madeleine still could have been snatched. Just think of Elizabeth Smart. She was kidnapped from her own bedroom while her parents were home.
The parents weren't far, they checked up on the children often.
It's not that easy to find a babysitter when you're on holiday. Leaving them with a sitter at the complex would mean waking the children up again to take them back to the apartment afterwards. If you're not gone for very long and are not very far, it's easier to just let them sleep and check every now and then. Really, this case is pretty unique. It's not as if it's a commom occurance to snatch children from their bedroom. It's not something you think about. The parents probably thought the worst that could happen was that one of the children would wake up.
It's not recommendable to leave children alone like that, but it's not a case of child endangerment. You can't protect children against everything. Parents who smoke in front of their children, parents who don't force their children to wear a seatbelt are endangering them far more.


(that said, I agree the media whoopla is exaggerated )

Which could have had pretty awful consequences. What if Madeleine had decided to try and pick up one of her baby siblings? And dropped them? Or decided that she wanted to give them a bath and drowned them? Or decided that she wanted to see if she could light a match on her own? Obviously the chances of a paedophile kidnapping one of them were very small but the changes of other things happening were really not that small. If you're in the same house or flat as children, you can hear whether they're up to mischief, you can't do that when you're out at a restaurant even if you check on them every half an hour.

!<blocparty>!
May 24th, 2007, 12:56 PM
The toddlers were asleep in their beds. The parents know best whether or not they wake up a lot at night. Had they been asleep in the same apartment, Madeleine still could have been snatched. Just think of Elizabeth Smart. She was kidnapped from her own bedroom while her parents were home.
The parents weren't far, they checked up on the children often.
It's not that easy to find a babysitter when you're on holiday. Leaving them with a sitter at the complex would mean waking the children up again to take them back to the apartment afterwards. If you're not gone for very long and are not very far, it's easier to just let them sleep and check every now and then. Really, this case is pretty unique. It's not as if it's a commom occurance to snatch children from their bedroom. It's not something you think about. The parents probably thought the worst that could happen was that one of the children would wake up.
It's not recommendable to leave children alone like that, but it's not a case of child endangerment. You can't protect children against everything. Parents who smoke in front of their children, parents who don't force their children to wear a seatbelt are endangering them far more.


(that said, I agree the media whoopla is exaggerated )

Are you serious? You're suggesting it's actually OK to leave little children alone in foreign countries? You should never, ever leave a child under 5 alone, ANYWHERE. For starters, what about fires? What if they wake up (which would be pretty likely in a foreign country) and wonder outside to the balcony? Insect bites? edit: and everything Saki said. You just don't do it.

As for the "it's not easy to find a babysitter when you're on holiday" - WHAT? It's probably the easiest place to find a babysitter when you're on holiday in popular tourist areas. We've stayed in apartments all over Europe and there's always been babysitting agencies nearby, my parents just had to make a call and they would send one over within 30 minutes.

Rocketta
May 24th, 2007, 02:18 PM
Giving the parents grief or charging them with child endangerment achieves what exactly ?

two things..

one it holds them accountable for their actions as adults, their daughter probably paid her life their actions so they should be held accountable as well.

and two, it shows a warning to other parents that they will be held accountable for stupid selfish choices that put their children at risk.

I don't see why these parents should escape punishment or ridicule because their mistake caused the kidnapping of their child? If they had left the kid in the room by themselves and they managed to set a fire where they get burnt, do you think the parents wouldn't have been held accountable?

Frankly, I have little to no sympathy for the parents. They were two intelligent adults who had the means and wherewithall to provide supervision for these children but they chose not to for whatever crazy reason.

Rocketta
May 24th, 2007, 02:30 PM
The toddlers were asleep in their beds. The parents know best whether or not they wake up a lot at night. Had they been asleep in the same apartment, Madeleine still could have been snatched. Just think of Elizabeth Smart. She was kidnapped from her own bedroom while her parents were home.
The parents weren't far, they checked up on the children often.
It's not that easy to find a babysitter when you're on holiday. Leaving them with a sitter at the complex would mean waking the children up again to take them back to the apartment afterwards. If you're not gone for very long and are not very far, it's easier to just let them sleep and check every now and then. Really, this case is pretty unique. It's not as if it's a commom occurance to snatch children from their bedroom. It's not something you think about. The parents probably thought the worst that could happen was that one of the children would wake up.
It's not recommendable to leave children alone like that, but it's not a case of child endangerment. You can't protect children against everything. Parents who smoke in front of their children, parents who don't force their children to wear a seatbelt are endangering them far more.


(that said, I agree the media whoopla is exaggerated )

:speakles:


Ok, first the parents can't be responsible for other's actions. So they can't prevent a pervert from crawling through a window and snatching their kid. What they can do is not make it easy for him by leaving toddlers a lone.

Saki, block_party already pointed out many other things that could and do go wrong with really young children. I don't even know parents who let their toddlers alone in other rooms in their own home much less a strange hotel room.

Kids wake up disoriented so to wake up in a strange room to find your parents not there when they were there before you went to sleep is terrifying to little children.

Also, if you can't be bothered to spend time with your kids when on holiday then you don't need to take them with you. We are not talking about anything necessary, they didn't have to go out to eat they could've eaten in their room.

It's why some of us know not to have kids because once you do it should always be about their needs and not your wants.

Kart
May 24th, 2007, 02:46 PM
two things..

one it holds them accountable for their actions as adults, their daughter probably paid her life their actions so they should be held accountable as well.

and two, it shows a warning to other parents that they will be held accountable for stupid selfish choices that put their children at risk.

I don't see why these parents should escape punishment or ridicule because their mistake caused the kidnapping of their child? If they had left the kid in the room by themselves and they managed to set a fire where they get burnt, do you think the parents wouldn't have been held accountable?

Frankly, I have little to no sympathy for the parents. They were two intelligent adults who had the means and wherewithall to provide supervision for these children but they chose not to for whatever crazy reason.

Her parents did not kidnap +/- do whatever to her. What they did do, is make a bad judgment call. As I pointed out, being intelligent does not preclude anyone from making those kind of mistakes.

A media attack on this seems insensitive and cruel to me given that they surely are regretting their error and missing their daughter. I do not support that at a time when they're surely just coming to terms with the loss of their daughter.

If you're going to prosecute them then at least wait a bit until the dust settles.

Rocketta
May 24th, 2007, 05:10 PM
Her parents did not kidnap +/- do whatever to her. What they did do, is make a bad judgment call. As I pointed out, being intelligent does not preclude anyone from making those kind of mistakes.

A media attack on this seems insensitive and cruel to me given that they surely are regretting their error and missing their daughter. I do not support that at a time when they're surely just coming to terms with the loss of their daughter.

If you're going to prosecute them then at least wait a bit until the dust settles.

Let me ask you then, if her parents had one drink too many then got in a car accident and their daughter was killed.....do we wait for the dust to settle before we charge her with driving under the influence? I mean it was just a bad decision to have that third drink. She will surely be suffering knowing she was responsible?

There are accidents and then there is negligence. The parents were negligent. They clearly knew there was a possibility of problems or they wouldn't have been checking on the children every 30 minutes. This wasn't a 'oops I didn't know better mistake' this was a 'I don't think bad shit happens to me so I'm going to risk it' mistake. :(

I mean what if the kids had started a fire and hurt or killed someone in the hotel? Do we hold the parents accountable then or do we let the dust settle?

I really don't see what waiting is going to do but prelong the inevitable. I know if social workers had gone to their house and found those children by themselves they would've been immediately removed from the parents custody.

gentenaire
May 24th, 2007, 05:19 PM
Which could have had pretty awful consequences. What if Madeleine had decided to try and pick up one of her baby siblings? And dropped them? Or decided that she wanted to give them a bath and drowned them?



A 4-year old can't lift a baby from a bed. It's too high.

Or decided that she wanted to see if she could light a match on her own?

I doubt a 4-year old can light a match. It's not that easy.

If you're in the same house or flat as children, you can hear whether they're up to mischief,

No, you can't. Unless you have one of those walkie talkies in the room, but generally you don't put that in the room of a 4-year old.

AT home, my parents bedroom was at the other end of the house. They couldn't hear us. They didn't check on us every half hour. All the things that could have happened to Madeleine, could have happened to us as children because there was no way my parents could hear us.

gentenaire
May 24th, 2007, 05:22 PM
Are you serious? You're suggesting it's actually OK to leave little children alone in foreign countries? You should never, ever leave a child under 5 alone, ANYWHERE. .

No, I'm saying that I don't really consider that leaving alone. They were asleep, they checked on them every half hour. That's no different from parents whose bedroom is at some distance from the children's bedrooms.

Rocketta
May 24th, 2007, 05:25 PM
No, I'm saying that I don't really consider that leaving alone. They were asleep, they checked on them every half hour. That's no different from parents whose bedroom is at some distance from the children's bedrooms.

It's a lot different because if the child wakes up and goes looking for you they can find you as opposed to you being in a restaurant. :shrug:

Rocketta
May 24th, 2007, 05:35 PM
I doubt a 4-year old can light a match. It's not that easy.


you would be surprised...


Most of the people killed in child-playing fires are under 5, and such fires are the leading cause of fire deaths among preschoolers.
http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?categoryID=281&itemID=18271&URL=Research%20&%20Reports/Fact%20sheets/Children%20playing%20with%20fire&cookie%5Ftest=1

gentenaire
May 24th, 2007, 05:42 PM
It's a lot different because if the child wakes up and goes looking for you they can find you as opposed to you being in a restaurant. :shrug:

Not necessarily. If the parents bedroom is on the groundfloor and the children's bedrooms are on the first floor, the children can't get to their parents because there's usually a saftey gate blocking the stairs.

Of course it's better to be in the room next to the children. But there are risks to everything. The risk these parents took was no greater than the risk my parents took by having their bedroom far removed from ours.

Rocketta
May 24th, 2007, 05:50 PM
Not necessarily. If the parents bedroom is on the groundfloor and the children's bedrooms are on the first floor, the children can't get to their parents because there's usually a saftey gate blocking the stairs.

Of course it's better to be in the room next to the children. But there are risks to everything. The risk these parents took was no greater than the risk my parents took by having their bedroom far removed from ours.

That's not true at all. It's not the same risk? Not even close and just because someone is lucky that nothing happened doesn't make the risk any less negligent.

gentenaire
May 24th, 2007, 05:53 PM
That's not true at all. It's not the same risk? Not even close and just because someone is lucky that nothing happened doesn't make the risk any less negligent.

Then what could have happened that couldn't have happened to me as a child?

Chris 84
May 24th, 2007, 08:01 PM
This thread is a little silly to me :p

I take the point that it has been in the news a lot lately, and that kids are dying of malnutrition all the time, and kids are going missing all the time, but one of the key factors about this case is that there seems to be a suspicion that she has kidnapped to be sold.....and by keeping her in the papers for such a long time, and in the public eye, then people everywhere are more likely to recognise her. Of course, she may be dead....but repeatedly publicising her story and her pictures makes it more likely that she will be recognised if alive.

As for the media only caring cos the parents are doctors, I think this is only true in one way. They are more educated, and seem to have more contacts than other people who are in a similar position to them, and have been magnificent from a PR perspective. From their perspective, it is obvious that she should be in the news as much as possible, and they have done their best to ensure that this is the case.

Besides, Big Brother starts soon, and I'd rather she was all over the media than that crap :p

!<blocparty>!
May 24th, 2007, 08:52 PM
No, I'm saying that I don't really consider that leaving alone. They were asleep, they checked on them every half hour. That's no different from parents whose bedroom is at some distance from the children's bedrooms.

I agree with you 99% of the time but you're dead wrong here. There's a pretty big difference between leaving children sleeping at one end of their own home, (where they're comfortable, know their way around and know exactly where their parents will be if they do wake up) and leaving them alone in a foreign country while their parents are down the road at a restaurant.

SJW
May 24th, 2007, 11:02 PM
After looking after my nephew a couple of times, I wouldn't even dream about leaving my children alone, and definitely not in a foreign country.
For example, you're in the same room as him, and he's jumping up and down bashing into things. It's a recipe for disaster.
The fact that they were asleep does not make it ok...as numerous people have pointed out already, there's hazards such as fire etc. They checked up on them every 30 or so minutes, but think how much damage can be done in a couple of seconds by children. If you're in the garden, you blink and they're running towards the stinging nettles...
genetaire, you are usually spot on with everything you write, but do you seriously think the person who snatched her didn't know the parents weren't there? IMO that is precisely the reason she was taken, I don't think it was a coincidence at all.
I know they probably think worse of themselves than we could ever think, but things like this happen and they knew they were taking a risk, since they kept going to check on them.
The parents were negligent. End of.

Sugar_Kane
May 25th, 2007, 02:07 AM
OT but I've been wondering if you are a Sonic Youth fan?

Who never heard of them but I shall check them out!

bionic71
May 25th, 2007, 06:20 AM
You know, you've got a lot of good points, but you're crossing a line. It's not funny on any level, it just makes you look a ****. If you think little graphics like that are amusing, think how it feels to be a four year old girl taken from her parents and subjected to christ knows what. Turn the news off if it bothers you. I dont watch fucking Sky News, or read the tabloids, so this story hasn't overwhelmed me, tragic as it is.

As for the comments about how the outcry wouldnt be the same if she had 'chavvy' parents, I honestly don't think that's true. Remember Jamie Bulger? Anyway, those two nutjobs who've gone to the Algarve to 'help' seem somewhat chavtastic to me...lord knows what they do with the rest of their time...

...echoed

gentenaire
May 25th, 2007, 06:27 AM
After looking after my nephew a couple of times, I wouldn't even dream about leaving my children alone, and definitely not in a foreign country.
For example, you're in the same room as him, and he's jumping up and down bashing into things. It's a recipe for disaster.
The fact that they were asleep does not make it ok...as numerous people have pointed out already, there's hazards such as fire etc. They checked up on them every 30 or so minutes, but think how much damage can be done in a couple of seconds by children. If you're in the garden, you blink and they're running towards the stinging nettles...
genetaire, you are usually spot on with everything you write, but do you seriously think the person who snatched her didn't know the parents weren't there? IMO that is precisely the reason she was taken, I don't think it was a coincidence at all.
I know they probably think worse of themselves than we could ever think, but things like this happen and they knew they were taking a risk, since they kept going to check on them.
The parents were negligent. End of.

You can't compare a child that's asleep with one that's wide awake and playing. And every child is different. There are children that never wake up during the night (I was one of those).

I do agree with you that the person who snatched her must have known the parents were away. At the same time, you can't blame parents for not forseeing something like that.

I have nieces too. My brother and SIL have left their children asleep in their beds too, while they were next door at a BBQ. But they knew the children couldn't get out of their beds alone, couldn't leave the room on their own. And they were next door.

My mother once left my brother asleep in the car while she was at a restaurant. When she told us that, we found that hard to believe. But she says it was quite safe. The car was parked under the trees, in the shade. She didn't want to wake him up, she didn't want to take him to a smoky restaurant. I must say, I still find this irresponsible of my mom, but there you go.

I had a wonderful childhood. My nieces are having a wonderful childhood. I suppose you all feel we should have been taken away from my mother, that my nieces should be taken away from my brother.

SJW
May 25th, 2007, 07:30 AM
You can't compare a child that's asleep with one that's wide awake and playing. And every child is different. There are children that never wake up during the night (I was one of those).

I do agree with you that the person who snatched her must have known the parents were away. At the same time, you can't blame parents for not forseeing something like that.

I have nieces too. My brother and SIL have left their children asleep in their beds too, while they were next door at a BBQ. But they knew the children couldn't get out of their beds alone, couldn't leave the room on their own. And they were next door.

My mother once left my brother asleep in the car while she was at a restaurant. When she told us that, we found that hard to believe. But she says it was quite safe. The car was parked under the trees, in the shade. She didn't want to wake him up, she didn't want to take him to a smoky restaurant. I must say, I still find this irresponsible of my mom, but there you go.

I had a wonderful childhood. My nieces are having a wonderful childhood. I suppose you all feel we should have been taken away from my mother, that my nieces should be taken away from my brother.

I'm not saying they're the same I'm saying that they could have woken up and got into all sorts of trouble.

It's all very well that you guys were left alone. The fact is though, you weren't taken. Should someone have stolen your mum's car, THEN the issue would have been why was he left in the car by himself. I'm a firm believer in "well, there was no harm done", I'm not stupid, I know children are left alone everywhere everyday. However this sensationalist £2million reward story makes a mockery out of the British public IMO. What about, say, the Asian children in East London who haven't been left alone by negligent parents but have still been kidnapped??

As much as the UK likes to think it's a progressive nation, you don't see Becks, Terry, Rooney and co. using their fame for more tragic, less Anglo-Saxon children.

This whole story is fucked up, but if she wasn't left alone, she wouldn't have been taken IMO. Completely preventable.

SJW
May 25th, 2007, 07:36 AM
You know, you've got a lot of good points, but you're crossing a line. It's not funny on any level, it just makes you look a ****. If you think little graphics like that are amusing, think how it feels to be a four year old girl taken from her parents and subjected to christ knows what. Turn the news off if it bothers you. I dont watch fucking Sky News, or read the tabloids, so this story hasn't overwhelmed me, tragic as it is.

As for the comments about how the outcry wouldnt be the same if she had 'chavvy' parents, I honestly don't think that's true. Remember Jamie Bulger? Anyway, those two nutjobs who've gone to the Algarve to 'help' seem somewhat chavtastic to me...lord knows what they do with the rest of their time...

He was tortured and murdered in a revolting, unheard of way, not to mention that they were just children themselves. Do you think it would have received the same amount of media attention of it was an adult who just strangled him or something?

Kart
May 25th, 2007, 09:42 AM
Let me ask you then, if her parents had one drink too many then got in a car accident and their daughter was killed.....do we wait for the dust to settle before we charge her with driving under the influence? I mean it was just a bad decision to have that third drink. She will surely be suffering knowing she was responsible?

There are accidents and then there is negligence. The parents were negligent. They clearly knew there was a possibility of problems or they wouldn't have been checking on the children every 30 minutes. This wasn't a 'oops I didn't know better mistake' this was a 'I don't think bad shit happens to me so I'm going to risk it' mistake. :(

I mean what if the kids had started a fire and hurt or killed someone in the hotel? Do we hold the parents accountable then or do we let the dust settle?

I really don't see what waiting is going to do but prelong the inevitable. I know if social workers had gone to their house and found those children by themselves they would've been immediately removed from the parents custody.

This is not the same as a drink driving accident.

This little girl was not murdered or abducted by her parents.

I reiterate that I do not support sticking a child endangerment prosecution in their faces when they still don't even know if their daughter is dead or alive.

I can't even begin to imagine how desperate they must be to find her.

Note that I am not saying they shouldn't be prosecuted - though I'm not as for it as some others seem to be on here.

!<blocparty>!
May 25th, 2007, 11:50 AM
You know, you've got a lot of good points, but you're crossing a line. It's not funny on any level, it just makes you look a ****. If you think little graphics like that are amusing, think how it feels to be a four year old girl taken from her parents and subjected to christ knows what. Turn the news off if it bothers you. I dont watch fucking Sky News, or read the tabloids, so this story hasn't overwhelmed me, tragic as it is.

As for the comments about how the outcry wouldnt be the same if she had 'chavvy' parents, I honestly don't think that's true. Remember Jamie Bulger? Anyway, those two nutjobs who've gone to the Algarve to 'help' seem somewhat chavtastic to me...lord knows what they do with the rest of their time...

Where the fuck did I say or even imply that it was amusing? I thought it pretty harsh (most of my comments in here have been pretty harsh, anyway), hence the :tape: not the :haha:. :rolleyes:

I found it on a Facebook group that agrees with most people here. It basically summarises everything I've said, so I posted it.

As for Jamie Bulger, I can't even remember anything about him.

Craigy
May 25th, 2007, 11:53 AM
I bet this is your favourite day, Tim. :tape:
National missing children day.

Monica_Rules
May 25th, 2007, 12:32 PM
James Bulger was slightly different, he was with his mum in a shopping centre and those 2 10 year olds managed to get him away from her somehow then they tortured him on the train tracks acting out childs play 3.

Can't believe you dont know about that, it was huge news a few years ago when they turned 18 and one wanted to go to uni and they were talking about how they've changed their names and changed the way they look. They will be about 24 now.

!<blocparty>!
May 25th, 2007, 12:53 PM
James Bulger was slightly different, he was with his mum in a shopping centre and those 2 10 year olds managed to get him away from her somehow then they tortured him on the train tracks acting out childs play 3.

Can't believe you dont know about that, it was huge news a few years ago when they turned 18 and one wanted to go to uni and they were talking about how they've changed their names and changed the way they look. They will be about 24 now.

I was 5 years old when this happened and have no recollection of this 'huge' news a few years ago. They wanted to go to Uni?! Damn, how could I forget that one.

JonBcn
May 25th, 2007, 01:00 PM
Where the fuck did I say or even imply that it was amusing? I thought it pretty harsh (most of my comments in here have been pretty harsh, anyway), hence the :tape: not the :haha:. :rolleyes:

I found it on a Facebook group that agrees with most people here. It basically summarises everything I've said, so I posted it.

As for Jamie Bulger, I can't even remember anything about him.

Hence I said "if" you think that's amusing. It was an image using sarcastic and tasteless humour. I know you posted the ':tape:', but just by posting it you gave your tacit approval even if you knew people would object to it (as you said yourself: "it summed up everything I've said, so I posted it"). Anyway, it's not important. As I said before, I dont know what media you're glued to where you find this inescapable. It hardly rates a mention anywhere I look these days, I have to actively seek out news on the case if I want to know anything (which I don't...I'm sure that if something happens it'll be inescapable again).

It's a pity you're too young to remember the Jamie Bulger case, because the media was far, far worse than what's going on now...perhaps because it was in Britain, I don't know. But the tabloid press always find something to have a moral panic about, whether its peadophiles living near schools, Soham...there'll be another one next week and they'll be trying to convince us that we're all in danger once more...

Kart
May 25th, 2007, 02:57 PM
As for Jamie Bulger, I can't even remember anything about him.

You should read up about it.

gentenaire
May 25th, 2007, 04:28 PM
I'm not saying they're the same I'm saying that they could have woken up and got into all sorts of trouble.

It's all very well that you guys were left alone. The fact is though, you weren't taken. Should someone have stolen your mum's car, THEN the issue would have been why was he left in the car by himself. I'm a firm believer in "well, there was no harm done", I'm not stupid, I know children are left alone everywhere everyday. However this sensationalist £2million reward story makes a mockery out of the British public IMO. What about, say, the Asian children in East London who haven't been left alone by negligent parents but have still been kidnapped??

As much as the UK likes to think it's a progressive nation, you don't see Becks, Terry, Rooney and co. using their fame for more tragic, less Anglo-Saxon children.

This whole story is fucked up, but if she wasn't left alone, she wouldn't have been taken IMO. Completely preventable.

It's always easy to say afterwards what should have been done. Are you going to tell a parents whose child has been killed while riding to school that were negligent? That if they had driven the child to school in car instead, the child would still be alive?

Life is full of risks. You have to try to minimise them as much as possible, whilst still finding some kind of balance. The risk these parents took was a lot less than the risks you and I take every day. A lot of people are afraid of flying, when statistically speaking, flying is a lot safer than driving. But because plane crashes are big news, they scare people more. Objectively speaking, the risk these parents took wasn't all that great. But it seems a big risk because it turned out badly, because it's such a unique case and because it's constantly in the news.

What if the opposite had happened? What if because they checked on them every half hour, they saved one of the babies from cot death? Don't say this is far fetched because this very thing happened to my cousin. Because the people at day care check on babies a lot more than we generally do at home, they noticed the daughter of my cousin was no longer breathing. They managed to save the baby and she's fine now. Had she been at home, she would have died because parents generally don't check on babies every half hour when they're asleep. They just let them sleep and don't notice there's something wrong until it's too late. In that case, the parents would have been very thankful that they decided to go to the restaurant that night. It's easy to judge a certain act after the concequences are known. The parents could not have foreseen something like this happening.

The papers here are full of the murder of an 18-year old. She disappeared when she cycling home from a party in the middle of the night. There are also people blaming the parents for letting their daughter return home by herself, or for letting her attend a party at such a late hour.

How far do we have to go? Are chldren still alowed to have a childhood or do we have to protect them from every possible risk?

SJW
May 25th, 2007, 05:21 PM
It's always easy to say afterwards what should have been done. Are you going to tell a parents whose child has been killed while riding to school that were negligent? That if they had driven the child to school in car instead, the child would still be alive?

Life is full of risks. You have to try to minimise them as much as possible, whilst still finding some kind of balance. The risk these parents took was a lot less than the risks you and I take every day. A lot of people are afraid of flying, when statistically speaking, flying is a lot safer than driving. But because plane crashes are big news, they scare people more. Objectively speaking, the risk these parents took wasn't all that great. But it seems a big risk because it turned out badly, because it's such a unique case and because it's constantly in the news.

What if the opposite had happened? What if because they checked on them every half hour, they saved one of the babies from cot death? Don't say this is far fetched because this very thing happened to my cousin. Because the people at day care check on babies a lot more than we generally do at home, they noticed the daughter of my cousin was no longer breathing. They managed to save the baby and she's fine now. Had she been at home, she would have died because parents generally don't check on babies every half hour when they're asleep. They just let them sleep and don't notice there's something wrong until it's too late. In that case, the parents would have been very thankful that they decided to go to the restaurant that night. It's easy to judge a certain act after the concequences are known. The parents could not have foreseen something like this happening.

The papers here are full of the murder of an 18-year old. She disappeared when she cycling home from a party in the middle of the night. There are also people blaming the parents for letting their daughter return home by herself, or for letting her attend a party at such a late hour.

How far do we have to go? Are chldren still alowed to have a childhood or do we have to protect them from every possible risk?

Since when is leaving children alone while you go out to eat "letting them have a childhood"?

Letting your children ride the bus and it crashing is not the same as leaving them in a house by themselves and somebody kidknapping them.

An 18 year old is an adult IMO. Again, not the same.

If I can't compare children being home alone awake with children being home alone asleep, then why are you comparing letting an 18 year old finding her way home after a party with leaving a toddler in apartment with no supervision in a foreign country?

gentenaire
May 25th, 2007, 05:28 PM
If I can't compare children being home alone awake with children being home alone asleep, then why are you comparing letting an 18 year old finding her way home after a party with leaving a toddler in apartment with no supervision in a foreign country?

Because the odds of something happening to an 18-year old alone in the middle of the night are far greater than the odds of something happening to little children asleep in their beds with no one in the same building. It's not as if the parents were at the other side of town, they weren't that far away.

I asked a question earlier, that no one answered. What could have happened to these children that could not have happened to me as a chlid, with my parents' bedroom at the other side of the house?

(with riding to school, I meant riding a bike to school. Lots of children get killed when riding a bike, unfortunately. That doesn't make it irresponsible of the parents to let their children ride a bike).

SJW
May 25th, 2007, 05:38 PM
Because the odds of something happening to an 18-year old alone in the middle of the night are far greater than the odds of something happening to little children asleep in their beds with no one in the same building. It's not as if the parents were at the other side of town, they weren't that far away.

I asked a question earlier, that no one answered. What could have happened to these children that could not have happened to me as a chlid, with my parents' bedroom at the other side of the house?

(with riding to school, I meant riding a bike to school. Lots of children get killed when riding a bike, unfortunately. That doesn't make it irresponsible of the parents to let their children ride a bike).

Adults are responsible for their own actions though. Especially in Europe, 18 year olds can do anything they want without answering to anybody.

The same thing could have happened if they were in the apartment. But then it wouldn't be negligence, m'dear, would it? ;) And that is my issue, as well as many others in this thread.

Sorry I misread. :)

gentenaire
May 25th, 2007, 05:45 PM
I think my mother has been negligent on many occasions then. I wouldn't recommend all the things she's done, but I'm sure she's not the only one. Yet, you never really hear of things going badly because of it. This Madeleine case is the exception.
Yet, you constantly hear of children being killed in traffic, young girls getting raped at parties, etc. Why is the first, where things seldom go wrong, considered negligence, but not the latter?

saki
May 25th, 2007, 07:14 PM
There are plenty of things that could happen to a child whose parents are out of the house that wouldn't happen to a child whose parents were in the house. At a certain point, babies start to be able to climb out of their cots. Anyone who has dealt with kids will tell you that it's usually literally overnight - suddenly they figure it out. If the baby climbs out of the cot and hits its head, if the parents are in the same house they will hear the noise and be able to seek medical attention if necessary. That could save the life of the child. If the house is so big that they wouldn't hear, IMO, they need a baby monitor. If the house catches fire, whether the child causes it or it happens through some other cause (usually electrical fault), parents who are in the house will hear the smoke alarm and stand some chance of rescuing their children. If the parents are out at a restaurant, not so much. A child Madeleine's age is old enough to leave the apartment on her own - if the parents are in the house/apartment, they're obviously going to hear the door being opened and closed, if they're not there.. she could get quite far before they realised.

Leaving children of that age - particularly multiple young children (cos kids do get into more trouble together than alone) - is negligent. I'm baffled that someone as usually sensible as Tine is trying to claim otherwise.

Saying that something is negligent is not saying that something bad will necessarily happen to young children left alone, it's saying that the level of risk is too high to be risked when we're talking about the welfare of a child. Obviously, that's somewhat subjective, no-one (well apart from freaky attachment parenting types) is saying that young children need 24/7 undivided attention - because, obviously, parents need to sleep and stuff! - but leaving three children under the age of four exposes them to enough risk that it is generally considered negligent. In a lot of Western countries, it's illegal to leave children alone up to the age of 10 or so and there is a reason for that.

gentenaire
May 25th, 2007, 07:56 PM
But what about parents who're in the garden? Or parents whose bedroom is some distance from the children's? I really don't see much of a difference there. They were just across the pool from the apartment, they really weren't that far.

The reason I'm defending this is because I feel there are things that are far more risky, like home births for example, and these parents aren not attacked in the same manner. And I think you might underestimate how often it happens that a parent leaves a sleeping child alone for a short while. My mother's done it, still does with my nieces in fact, and she's certainly not the only one. Yet, despite many people doing it, you seldom hear of things going wrong.

CondiLicious
May 25th, 2007, 09:29 PM
They've been explaining themselves today.

The parents of missing Madeleine McCann have spoken of their feelings of guilt at not being there when she was taken.
In their first interview Kate and Gerry McCann spoke about the "darkness" they felt in the first hours and days after their daughter's abduction. The couple told how they had made arrangements with other families to regularly check on their children on the night of May 3 while dining a short distance away.
Gerry McCann compared eating in the tapas bar at the Ocean Club Resort in Praia da Luz as like "having dinner in your garden". But he said: "I think it's fair to say that the guilt that we feel having not been there at that moment, irrespective of whether we had been in the next bedroom or not, will never leave us."
His wife Kate said: "Certainly the first few days I think the guilt was very difficult but I think as time goes on you feel stronger and you feel very supported."
Mrs McCann insisted the couple were not irresponsible parents but said they had perhaps been naive.
She said: "I think we were naive, we are very responsible parents, we love our children very much. I don't think any parent could imagine or consider anything like this happening."
Mr McCann said the experience of his daughter's abduction was "worse than your worst nightmare" but said that they had drawn strength from thousands of messages of support from around the world.
They also described how they have been dealing with Madeleine's abduction in the presence of their two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie.
Mr McCann said: "We have said she's gone on a little trip just now and Amelie came out with one really cutting line that went right to the core, she said 'Madeleine's on trip, back soon'.
"We certainly pray for that every day."

!<blocparty>!
May 25th, 2007, 09:35 PM
Hence I said "if" you think that's amusing. It was an image using sarcastic and tasteless humour. I know you posted the ':tape:', but just by posting it you gave your tacit approval even if you knew people would object to it (as you said yourself: "it summed up everything I've said, so I posted it"). Anyway, it's not important. As I said before, I dont know what media you're glued to where you find this inescapable. It hardly rates a mention anywhere I look these days, I have to actively seek out news on the case if I want to know anything (which I don't...I'm sure that if something happens it'll be inescapable again).

It's a pity you're too young to remember the Jamie Bulger case, because the media was far, far worse than what's going on now...perhaps because it was in Britain, I don't know. But the tabloid press always find something to have a moral panic about, whether its peadophiles living near schools, Soham...there'll be another one next week and they'll be trying to convince us that we're all in danger once more...

I get my news from websites and either The Independent or The Guardian when I'm at work... luckily they don't dedicate pages and pages to the case every day. However, I do have to listen to the radio at work, and every day for the past three weeks I've had to listen to Madeleine 'updates' every half hour, 8 hours a day. I went into work by 2.30 today and six of the nine papers that were left (The Sun, The Mirror, The Daily Telegraph, The Express and The Mail) all had Maddie's LAST EVER PICTURE! plastered all over the front pages, with special reports inside. Sky News has a dedicated channel on its interactive service to the case. It's incredible.

Perhaps the kid being tortured had something to do with the excessive coverage of that one. Hardly the same as a missing girl.

!<blocparty>!
May 25th, 2007, 09:38 PM
I bet this is your favourite day, Tim. :tape:
National missing children day.

Wow, really? This is the first I've heard of it.

So much for this case supposedly highlighting every missing and/or abused child everywhere in the world, bionic71.

PaulHopkins
May 25th, 2007, 09:42 PM
Yep the media are starting to shift towards the parents' stupidity in leaving the children on their own.

Marshmallow
May 25th, 2007, 10:20 PM
This thread is a little silly to me :p

I take the point that it has been in the news a lot lately, and that kids are dying of malnutrition all the time, and kids are going missing all the time, but one of the key factors about this case is that there seems to be a suspicion that she has kidnapped to be sold.....and by keeping her in the papers for such a long time, and in the public eye, then people everywhere are more likely to recognise her. Of course, she may be dead....but repeatedly publicising her story and her pictures makes it more likely that she will be recognised if alive.

As for the media only caring cos the parents are doctors, I think this is only true in one way. They are more educated, and seem to have more contacts than other people who are in a similar position to them, and have been magnificent from a PR perspective. From their perspective, it is obvious that she should be in the news as much as possible, and they have done their best to ensure that this is the case.

Besides, Big Brother starts soon, and I'd rather she was all over the media than that crap :p

What is this suspicion based on? First i've heard it, because as far as i'm aware, the main suspicion / motive was paedophilia. But that's besides my point, which is that your argument is true of every child that goes missing. If the motive is for recognition, then why has this kind of widespread attention not been paid to ALL or most missing children? An exemplar of this being the fact that just earlier this week, 2 young girls have gone missing in the UK. Their story was discussed briefly on sky news yet nothing else, nothing. I don't know if the fact that these children were black and from low income households has anything to do with it (they were sisters). Further, the national missing helpline doesn't get that much funding, so why all of the sudden would missing children / a missing child become a top priority.
The parents themselves don't know why there has been so much attention, and described it as opportunitistic. Based on their sky interview. And i agree. There was little other news other than Gordon brown becoming Prime minister, media were desperate and voila.

Marshmallow
May 25th, 2007, 10:38 PM
But what about parents who're in the garden? Or parents whose bedroom is some distance from the children's? I really don't see much of a difference there. They were just across the pool from the apartment, they really weren't that far.

The reason I'm defending this is because I feel there are things that are far more risky, like home births for example, and these parents aren not attacked in the same manner. And I think you might underestimate how often it happens that a parent leaves a sleeping child alone for a short while. My mother's done it, still does with my nieces in fact, and she's certainly not the only one. Yet, despite many people doing it, you seldom hear of things going wrong.

From what i've read they were 100m from the apartment, at some tapas bar. And further, i don't believe they were regularly checking on the kids, that's just words to make them sound less neglegent.

I think the best thing that may come out of this excessive attention, is awareness about such actions. It seems the millions of stories about child snatching; one that comes to mind being the snatching of a girl from her own bathroom (and she was subsequently molested/raped) have not raised safety awareness in some parents. How can you leave 3 children under the age of 3, alone, when your on holiday; an environment which you cannot be that familiar with. If parenting young kids is hard work, that does not seem like an appropriate time or place to take a break.

A pro, i guess.

Thanx4nothin
May 25th, 2007, 11:41 PM
Making a thread like this is asking for contoversy what did anyone ever expect.

Joana
May 26th, 2007, 12:01 AM
You should read up about it.

He shouldn't if he wants to sleep well. It's one of the most horrifying stories of all times and I don't think it's really comparable to Madeleine's case.

Kart
May 26th, 2007, 12:10 AM
He shouldn't if he wants to sleep well. It's one of the most horrifying stories of all times and I don't think it's really comparable to Madeleine's case.

In terms of media attention in the UK, I think it is comparable.

Though I agree it's definitely not bedtime reading.

Edward.
May 26th, 2007, 12:15 AM
In terms of media attention in the UK, I think it is comparable.

Though I agree it's definitely not bedtime reading.

I agree.

The most horrifying thing is that his killers are now free with new identities.

Joana
May 26th, 2007, 12:26 AM
In terms of media attention in the UK, I think it is comparable.



Probably, but I think the attention Bulger case got was more understandable. I certainly was unlike anything I had ever heard of before, or after for that matter.



The most horrifying thing is that his killers are now free with new identities.

It's a travesty of justice.

Edward.
May 26th, 2007, 01:51 AM
It's a travesty of justice.

I could never live like that. If they were found out and people discover who they really are, their lives won't be worth living.

Yet, the authorities will do everything they can to make sure they are safe. Thats the way the British Justice System works and its a joke.

gentenaire
May 26th, 2007, 06:45 AM
What should have been done with the killers then? Release them when they're 40 and have no chance to do anything in society, making them extremely dangerous? It's better to release them at a time when they can still make something of their life. It's better for society. I'm sure the people who were dealing with these children know what they're doing. They wouldn't have released them unless they knew for certain they weren't a danger to society.

The killers were kids! The brains of children aren't fully developed. These kids probably didn't realise the difference between those video games they'd play and reality. Kids know the difference between right and wrong, but they don't always know the difference between being naughty and doing something really bad. It's why child soldiers in African countries are so dangerous.

What these kids was indeed extreme. Purely from a justice point of view, it is farer to let them rot in prison for a long time. But for the safety of society, it was probably better to release them sooner.

saki
May 26th, 2007, 08:41 AM
But what about parents who're in the garden? Or parents whose bedroom is some distance from the children's? I really don't see much of a difference there. They were just across the pool from the apartment, they really weren't that far.

The reason I'm defending this is because I feel there are things that are far more risky, like home births for example, and these parents aren not attacked in the same manner. And I think you might underestimate how often it happens that a parent leaves a sleeping child alone for a short while. My mother's done it, still does with my nieces in fact, and she's certainly not the only one. Yet, despite many people doing it, you seldom hear of things going wrong.

Parents who are out of earshot should have baby monitors for children under 3. Over 3 and being in the garden or a little way away is no big deal.

I wonder whether we don't hear about things going wrong because the parents who have to take their children into casualty or whatever don't admit to having been down the road in a restaurant..

Again, I'm not saying that leaving sleeping very young babies/children is running even a 50% risk of something happening to them. It's probably a risk of 1-5% - I just think that's too high and the law does too.

CooCooCachoo
May 26th, 2007, 08:47 AM
It's even all over the Dutch news :cuckoo:

I am sorry, but there are more pressing issues than this one girl going missing. It happens on a daily basis.

bionic71
May 26th, 2007, 10:58 AM
Wow, really? This is the first I've heard of it.

So much for this case supposedly highlighting every missing and/or abused child everywhere in the world, bionic71.

I will respond only as you addressed me directly.

Not once have I suggested that the parents were not negligent and somewhat foolish for leaving their children unattended. In my opinion the children should not have been left alone at all.

This thread appeared to start as a discussion of the amount of media attention the story was commanding...and has deteriorated into a shit throwing session at the parents...which does very little.

My initial point was that I was not troubled or offended by the continued coverage at all.

I stated, in my only post in this thread (other than my objection to the photograph and caption posted), that "Madeleine represents all the children abducted and abused, every single day"....

Therefore, I view her disappearance as a metaphor for all the children abducted on a daily basis across the world that we do not here about.

Whether you or others view Madeleine as a metaphor for all missing, abused or mistreated children is entirely up to you.

Joana
May 26th, 2007, 11:14 AM
What should have been done with the killers then?


Not spending millions of tax money of their changing of identities would be a good start.


The killers were kids! The brains of children aren't fully developed. These kids probably didn't realise the difference between those video games they'd play and reality. Kids know the difference between right and wrong, but they don't always know the difference between being naughty and doing something really bad. It's why child soldiers in African countries are so dangerous.


Oh, please. We both were kids and know things don't work like that. If that were true things like this would happen all the time, but they almost never happen, at least in relatively normal environment, not counting wars in Sierra Leone etc.

And from what I remember, they weren't released because it would be better for the society (I disagree with it anyway, but that's another story) but because their rights were being violated and blah.

Edward.
May 26th, 2007, 12:44 PM
What should have been done with the killers then?

Let them rot in jell for all eternity.

Purely from a justice point of view, it is farer to let them rot in prison for a long time.

You even said so yourself!

Halardfan
Sep 7th, 2007, 08:08 AM
The mother has been declared a formal suspect today...

Either way its awful...if she is innocent its piling suffering upon suffering for her...

If she is guilty then the whole campaign takes on a grotesque light.

The father will be interviewed today. Then he will probably be named as a suspect too.

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2007, 08:53 AM
Madeleine McCann's mother to be declared suspect

46 minutes ago


The mother of missing British four-year-old Madeleine McCann will be formally declared a suspect on Friday, a spokeswoman for the family said.
The sudden shift in the investigation came after authorities received forensic evidence recovered from the holiday apartment in the Algarve where Madeleine vanished on May 3.


"She will be formally declared a suspect," said Justine McGuinness, a spokeswoman for the McCanns.


On Thursday, Kate McCann was questioned by police for about 11 hours at a police station in the Algarve. Kate's husband Gerry is expected to be questioned by police on Friday.


A Briton living in Praia da Luz had until now been identified by police as the only suspect in the investigation and his house has been searched twice.


Madeleine's parents have campaigned relentlessly to draw attention to the case. Their efforts led to a meeting with Pope Benedict in Rome who blessed a picture of Madeleine a few weeks after the disappearance.
British business tycoons and celebrities ranging from "Harry Potter" author J.K. Rowling to soccer stars have contributed to a reward for her return.

best best better
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:10 AM
There are very good reasons for Mrs McCann to be formally declared a suspect, in accordance with Portuguse law it seems that this is the only way that they can ask her certain questions, and it also gives her a degree of rights protection as well.

From a practical point of view, I find it difficult to reconcile that either one of the parents could have been involved in Madeleine's disappearance individually. Collectively would make more sense, but even that is unfathomable.

Though hard to believe, it should be remembered that:

1) Most people murdered are killed by someone known to them (if indeed Madeleine is dead, she may not be),
2) They are usually murdered by the last person to see them alive - in this case either the mother (who checked on her and she was still there), or the father (who checked on her and she wasn't.

The whole investigation and surrounding furore is starting to take on a very grotesque (someone else used that word) and, frankly, creeping persona.

Edward.
Sep 7th, 2007, 01:00 PM
I'm not suprised to be honest. I've always found there to be something distinctly false and creepy about the McCanns.

CondiLicious
Sep 7th, 2007, 02:06 PM
Finally!!!!!!

Monica_Rules
Sep 7th, 2007, 03:00 PM
I find this a but strange. Normally in these kind of cases if either of the parents are involved it becomes pretty clear early on in the investigation that is so.

I think this is the police clutching at straws trying to solve the case. Look what happened witht eh last suspect sod all.!

LefandePatty
Sep 7th, 2007, 03:02 PM
:weirdo:

Cilla
Sep 7th, 2007, 03:53 PM
I think this is the police clutching at straws trying to solve the case
I have to agree :o

Edward.
Sep 7th, 2007, 04:10 PM
Apparently, the police found Madeleines blood in a hire car the McCanns rented 25 days after her appearance.

best best better
Sep 7th, 2007, 04:16 PM
Whether either of the parents are involved in Madeleine's disappearance or not, the fact is that the police are doing work NOW that should have been done right at the start of the investigation.

For whatever reason (most likely that they're very well-presented doctors), the police did not do the basic formality work at the beginning, which should have been thoroughly investigating those closest to Madeleine until they could be eliminated from enquiries. It seems that the police initially eliminated the McCanns because it was thought 'impossible' they could have been involved. Not because any hard investigation work had been done.

That is the work they are doing now. And whatever it turns up, we shall see.

Monica_Rules
Sep 7th, 2007, 07:00 PM
Apparently, the police found Madeleines blood in a hire car the McCanns rented 25 days after her appearance.


So, what they kept madeline hidden for 25 days before using this car?

Isn't it plausable that the blood got their from what a nosebleed or some cut or something?

Edward.
Sep 7th, 2007, 07:22 PM
So, what they kept madeline hidden for 25 days before using this car?

Isn't it plausable that the blood got their from what a nosebleed or some cut or something?

They hired the car 25 days after she went missing. Thats the point. How would the blood have got there if they had hired it AFTER she went missing and hadn't used the car before?

drake3781
Sep 7th, 2007, 07:24 PM
So, what they kept madeline hidden for 25 days before using this car?

Isn't it plausable that the blood got their from what a nosebleed or some cut or something?


No. The car was rented 25 days after her disappearance.

Also there is speculation that the parents, both doctors, gave her sedatives that night - when they went out to dinner, and she died from an overdose accidentally.

hablo
Sep 7th, 2007, 07:28 PM
So, what they kept madeline hidden for 25 days before using this car?

Isn't it plausable that the blood got their from what a nosebleed or some cut or something?

But they rented that car 25 days after her disappearance, so how would the blood get there from a nose bleed or some cut?

When I read about mothers giving birth and killing their newborn and keeping them in a fridge for years, (almost) nothing surprises me anymore...

hablo
Sep 7th, 2007, 07:29 PM
Also there is speculation that the parents, both doctors, gave her sedatives that night - when they went out to dinner, and she died from an overdose accidentally.

Why would a four year old need sedatives? Just so that her parents could go out to dinner in peace? :scared:

gentenaire
Sep 7th, 2007, 08:06 PM
No. The car was rented 25 days after her disappearance.


I think that alone is enough to dismiss the idea. You don't think Maddie was alive and with her parents 25 days after she was found missing? With all the media around and everything? That doesn't make any sense at all.

They probably don't really see them as suspects, they only had to make them suspects in order to ask certain questions.

Sally Struthers
Sep 7th, 2007, 09:01 PM
hmm they offered her a plea deal if she says she did it accidentally and hid the body

JAMESYBABY!
Sep 7th, 2007, 09:03 PM
i persoanlly think it was the dad all because of his eyes look very angry and there looks like there is more that meets the eye:P

Blu€
Sep 8th, 2007, 12:44 AM
I think this is the police clutching at straws trying to solve the case. Look what happened witht eh last suspect sod all.!

Agreed.

Halardfan
Sep 8th, 2007, 07:41 AM
Again though, if there is Madeline's blood in the parents car that she had no connection with when she was alive, then its hard to find an innocent explanation.

The assertion of the family and friends that somehow the evidence was planted sounds highly unlikely.

If the parents did have a hand in this, I cant imagine how they managed to keep up the pretence of the whole Madeline campaign for so long.

The Daviator
Sep 8th, 2007, 09:14 AM
I'm sorry, but there's no way they somehow transported Madeleine in a car 25 days after she vanished, that was when the hysteria surrounding the disappearance peaked, and their every move was being watched, there's no way they took her from somewhere, transported her, and hid her without one person noticing...

Anyway, it's all very strange...

AbeD
Sep 8th, 2007, 09:24 AM
They rented the car 25 days after she was reported missing, but that's not to say they transported Madeleine that very day, nor that they actually moved the body. It could be they moved some contaminated implements or clothing to dispose of, and it could have been at any time since they got the car.

SunriseSunset
Sep 8th, 2007, 11:00 AM
I'm sick of her too. Actually not her personally, but the coverage. She is blonde, white and a little girl so the media latch onto her like flies to excrement. If she didn't have that perfect combination, they wouldn't give a damn. People go missing all the time, so why should all this publicity go to one?

Marshmallow
Sep 8th, 2007, 11:20 AM
The McCanns have always looked shady to me. I'm all for individual differences and all, but when they were making their plea at first, there were no tears, nor did i get a sense of desperation or fear in their voices like you see with a lot of appeals.
It was all just very cold.

These recent developments seem flimsy, but we have not been made away of all the facts that the police have. And THB, how does madelines blood get into the boot of a car hred AFTER she has disappeared?

What if they were running a paedophile ring that went wrong? Or the sedative theory? There's all kinds of PLAUSIBLE explanation :tape: like that, so i think people shouldn't rush to assume innocence, and likewise assume guilt.

Monica_Rules
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:10 PM
The thing i just can't place is this blood in the car.

If it was found in a car hired 25 days after the dissapearance that means 1 of a few things. 1 they had kept her alive untill then then killed her and her blood was there. 2 they had killed her and then used this car to get rid fo her. This seems highly unlikely as there would be no blood to come out of her as she would have been dead for up to 25 days.

3. They killed her/hurt her and the blood was on their clothes/belongings and ended up in that car

4. The blood is from a nosebleed/cut from weeks/months/days before she went missing and still could have ended up on the McCanns clothes/whatever.

Have i missed a plausible solution?

Most of these seem highly unlikeley as how could they have managed almost any of this with the media and police right onto them? And surely they would have broken down by now and admitted it? ALl this outside pressure whicht they have been at the centre at would just seem silly? SOme people might say it was to take the attention away from them!

Remember guys in most free societies its inocent untill PROVEN guilty. SO far i see no evidence proving their guilt!

bee888
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Why would they go thru the whole media thing if they killed Madeleine??
If they killed Madeleine.. they would just keep quiet and not let the media know about the whole thing. Just doesn't make sense....

however.. they supposedly left their sleeping daughter in their room while they go have breakfast... well ..we can't call them model parents either...

Viktymise
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:33 PM
The McCanns have always looked shady to me. I'm all for individual differences and all, but when they were making their plea at first, there were no tears, nor did i get a sense of desperation or fear in their voices like you see with a lot of appeals.
It was all just very cold.

These recent developments seem flimsy, but we have not been made away of all the facts that the police have. And THB, how does madelines blood get into the boot of a car hred AFTER she has disappeared?

What if they were running a paedophile ring that went wrong? Or the sedative theory? There's all kinds of PLAUSIBLE explanation :tape: like that, so i think people shouldn't rush to assume innocence, and likewise assume guilt.

I agree, the whole thing is just becoming weird now i think but right now im pretty sure the parents may have had something to do with it.

Edward.
Sep 8th, 2007, 04:27 PM
The McCanns have always looked shady to me. I'm all for individual differences and all, but when they were making their plea at first, there were no tears, nor did i get a sense of desperation or fear in their voices like you see with a lot of appeals.
It was all just very cold.

I totally agree. There is a distinct coldness and dodginess about them both, especially the father.

Maybe they created the whole kidnapping thing to mask what really happened. Send the investigators and police on a false trail, pretending she was kidnapped. Then when the girl never showed up, people would just assume she was killed and disposed of by the kidnappers or whatever, and they would get off scot-free.

It IS plausible.

CondiLicious
Sep 8th, 2007, 04:33 PM
2 they had killed her and then used this car to get rid fo her. This seems highly unlikely as there would be no blood to come out of her as she would have been dead for up to 25 days.

Dried blood would still leave a trace.

Marshmallow
Sep 8th, 2007, 11:26 PM
Apparently (Sky news report), sniffer dogs that can sense when a dead body has been in the vacinity went a big wild near the boot of the hired car. Madeline's family friends claim the smell of death could have been from Kate's clothes as she is a GP/Doctor.

There may have been blood spots in the House too, and the portugese police have not been happy with MacCan's responses. They also suspected that Madeline's body was stored in a bag.

None of it makes too much sense, but this is all really bizarre. There's not much reason to suspect guilt, but both are doctors so i assume they know which chemicals can dispose of blood stains.

But none of it makes sense, so we'll just have to wait and see.

SunriseSunset
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:20 AM
Apparently (Sky news report), sniffer dogs that can sense when a dead body has been in the vacinity went a big wild near the boot of the hired car. Madeline's family friends claim the smell of death could have been from Kate's clothes as she is a GP/Doctor.

There may have been blood spots in the House too, and the portugese police have not been happy with MacCan's responses. They also suspected that Madeline's body was stored in a bag.

None of it makes too much sense, but this is all really bizarre. There's not much reason to suspect guilt, but both are doctors so i assume they know which chemicals can dispose of blood stains.

But none of it makes sense, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Unless she worked in a morgue, how often would Kate have been around down bodies? Plus anyone who watches CSI/Law and order knows that bleach gets rid of DNA, I think.

Maybe the parents have been up to no good e.g. with drug dealers or something. Why else would she scream "they've taken her"? Yesterday I was convinced that the parents did it, but after seeing that now I'm not so sure. In my opinion, just because they haven't broken down and cried it doesn't mean they're guilty. Some people just aren't emotional in public. Plus this woman in America who claimed a black man kidnapped her kids was crying uncontrollably with her husband on t.v.- she drowned them herself.

Marshmallow
Sep 9th, 2007, 02:30 AM
I just realised that i've been too harsh on the MacCan's. I remember the Lindie -forgot her surname- the woman who's story was the basis of 'A Cry in the Dark' - where the woman's baby is killed by a wild dog, but everyone thinks she killed the baby and she even gets imprisoned.

She was innocent, but was pretty cold and direct during the media storm - which didn't help her.

Not knwowing the facts, and not knowing enough - its best not to speculate too much. TBH i really don't even care about the case. It will be scandalous and Juicy :tape: if they are running some kind of paedophile ring (thus an accomplice could have disposed of Madeline - probably that first suspect), or maybe they used Madeline in some perverse ritual feasting on her remains or something [i know, how inappropriate]... but the story just hasn't gripped me. But it's certainly turning a bit bizarre.

Marshmallow
Sep 9th, 2007, 02:36 AM
Unless she worked in a morgue, how often would Kate have been around down bodies? Plus anyone who watches CSI/Law and order knows that bleach gets rid of DNA, I think.

Maybe the parents have been up to no good e.g. with drug dealers or something. Why else would she scream "they've taken her"? Yesterday I was convinced that the parents did it, but after seeing that now I'm not so sure. In my opinion, just because they haven't broken down and cried it doesn't mean they're guilty. Some people just aren't emotional in public. Plus this woman in America who claimed a black man kidnapped her kids was crying uncontrollably with her husband on t.v.- she drowned them herself.

Oh my goodness. Everyone blames the black man. There was a couple in America that murdered their kids and claimed they were car jacked by a black man :tape:

It's all so scandalous, but sad of course.

VivalaSeles
Sep 9th, 2007, 12:41 PM
Remember guys in most free societies its inocent untill PROVEN guilty. SO far i see no evidence proving their guilt!

Nor should you see. In Portugal, criminal investigations are carried out under "secret of justice". The evidences, if there are some or many, will be presented in court, should the couple be formally accused.

Anyway, they have gone home now.

SloKid
Sep 9th, 2007, 03:12 PM
Oh my goodness. Everyone blames the black man. There was a couple in America that murdered their kids and claimed they were car jacked by a black man :tape:

It's all so scandalous, but sad of course.
Every country in the world has their own scapegoats. I remember a few years back in Italy a woman and her son were slaughtered in their house, her daughter appeared to have witnessed it and blamed some Albanian (other usual suspects/scapegoats are either from former Yugoslavia or Africa) thieves or something for what happened. But it was soon revealed that it was in fact the daughter and her boyfriend that stabbed and slaughtered her mum and brother. Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_Ligure_Murder) the wikipedia article on this case. There's an interesting sentence in the first part: "The murder is regarded as a case study in how prejudice and media overexposure can affect a criminal investigation."
I think similar applies to this case, although the truth is still not known.

Slutiana
Sep 9th, 2007, 03:26 PM
The one thig that stops me from believing that they did do it is the fact that the parents made it into one of the biggest manhunts and got the media involved so much. Surely if they had killed madeline themselves, they would have kept things quiet so they could dispose of her before anyone knew. I think it's just the Portugese police trying to say they've actually gotten somewhere in the last 150 days. Which is untrue. They have as much evidence now as they did on day 1.

VivalaSeles
Sep 9th, 2007, 03:32 PM
I think it's just the Portugese police trying to say they've actually gotten somewhere in the last 150 days. Which is untrue. They have as much evidence now as they did on day 1.

And how do you know this, may I ask?

Marshmallow
Sep 9th, 2007, 04:30 PM
Every country in the world has their own scapegoats. I remember a few years back in Italy a woman and her son were slaughtered in their house, her daughter appeared to have witnessed it and blamed some Albanian (other usual suspects/scapegoats are either from former Yugoslavia or Africa) thieves or something for what happened. But it was soon revealed that it was in fact the daughter and her boyfriend that stabbed and slaughtered her mum and brother. Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_Ligure_Murder) the wikipedia article on this case. There's an interesting sentence in the first part: "The murder is regarded as a case study in how prejudice and media overexposure can affect a criminal investigation."
I think similar applies to this case, although the truth is still not known.

That's a really good post, very informative. But i wasn't being too serious about the 'black man' thing.

*abby*
Sep 9th, 2007, 06:04 PM
apparantly forensics found a substantial amount of blood both in the boot of the car and on the floor of the apartment.
i cant see them being innocent after the whole bloody hire car thing, it would be too much of a coincidence

VivalaSeles
Sep 10th, 2007, 12:20 AM
According to Portuguese newspapers, the blood found by british dogs in the McCann-s apartament in Praia da Luz, in the van they rented and even on the van-s keys had a 80 per cent correspondance with Madeleine-s DNA.
Neither Kate nor Gerry commented on this while being questioned, nor did they answer any question related to the new evidence. They refused to do it, which their new status of "arguido" allows them to do.
Whether or not it has any relevance, Gerry is said to be a personal friend of British prime minister Gordon Brown, and the latter has phoned him almost on a daily basis to show him his support. The british policemen who came to Portugal to assist in the investigation were also received by Gordon Brown as soon as they arrived to the UK.

BigB08822
Sep 10th, 2007, 12:30 AM
Not looking good for them. How old are the other siblings? Are they old enough to have witnessed what might have happened and to recall and recite it to a police officer?

drake3781
Sep 11th, 2007, 03:11 AM
Full DNA match to missing UK girl found in hire car

10:17, September 11, 2007

A full DNA match to Madeleine McCann has been found in the hire car used by the family, in addition to the partial match in traces of blood found in the boot of the vehicle, UK media reported Monday.

Madeleine McCann, a British little girl, went missing during her stay with her parents in Portugal in May.

While the exact nature of the material remains unclear, it is believed to be either blood or biological fluid from Madeleine. A source linked to the investigation said: "It shows that the parents have a lot of explaining to do."

The Portuguese prosecutor, who will decide whether to charge Gerry and Kate McCann with killing their daughter, will be handed a mass of police files about the case on Tuesday.

Samples sent to the Birmingham-based Forensic Science Service have been analyzed and the results sent to the investigating officers.

It was claimed that the sample could not simply have been transferred from clothing or a cuddly toy. But it remained unclear exactly what material the DNA had been retrieved from. If it was a hair or flakes of skin -- the most easily transferrable form of material that yields DNA -- it would not have a dramatic impact on the investigation.

However, if it was blood, one of the most easily degradable forms of DNA, or internal fluids associated with a body, it would be a breakthrough.

Another sample is believed to show an 80 percent match to the genetic profile of Madeleine, who disappeared on May 3, just a few days before her fourth birthday. Both samples were found under upholstery in the boot of the Renault Scenic after police seized the vehicle in August.

The vehicle had been used to carry all of the child's belongings, including toys and clothing, when the family moved from the Ocean Club where she disappeared to a rented villa on the outskirts of Praia da Luz.

The two important samples were accompanied with one partial match found on the windowsill of the apartment where the McCanns had initially stayed. Traces of Madeleine's blood were found on the floor of the apartment but another sample found on the wall was thought to have come from a male, but was too degraded to secure an exact match.

Mrs McCann was said to have said that claims that minute bloodstains in the apartment where Madeleine stayed could have got there if she had a graze or cut or even a nosebleed.

She dismissed the suggestion that there was the scent of death on some of her clothes and the child's soft toy by saying that any such smell found by sniffer dogs was a result of her job at a local GP where she encountered corpses, it was reported.

Police are still trying to establish whether the child died after being hit or pushed by a parent. Another theory is that she overdosed on adult medicine which had been left within her reach or that she died from oversedation. They have not ruled out the possibility that someone helped the couple to dispose of the body.

New searches are due to be carried out on "specific locations" south of the Ocean Club where Madeleine disappeared from her apartment. The police would focus on an area of wasteland and a street where roadworks are being carried out. Officers are also expected to search the villa the couple left.

Source: Xinhua/agencies

~Cherry*Blossom~
Sep 11th, 2007, 03:17 AM
The thing I don't understand is that the police have all this evidence, but they still allowed them to leave the country. Why would they do that? The McCann's don't have to return to Portugal now. Even if they did do it, they can say that they don't trust the police and make up an excuse not to go back.

Nico_E
Sep 11th, 2007, 03:20 AM
I am sick of it yeah

and im not convinced of the Mother either, she has a sneaky look about her... not of someone in turmoil.

drake3781
Sep 11th, 2007, 04:14 AM
The administrators of a $2 million fund set up to help find Madeleine were investigating whether some of the money could be used to help pay the McCanns' legal bills, Britain's Press Association quoted an unidentified family friend as saying.

gentenaire
Sep 11th, 2007, 06:45 AM
The thing I don't understand is that the police have all this evidence, but they still allowed them to leave the country. Why would they do that?

Because they don't have any evidence.

Apparently, unlike earlier reports, there is no definite DNA match between the traces found in the car and Maddie's DNA. They can't say for sure that it is Maddy's.

borisyBACK
Sep 11th, 2007, 11:29 AM
I used to find it boring but now that the mummy and the shaggable hubby are suspects, it's much more interesting.

VivalaSeles
Sep 11th, 2007, 11:41 AM
Because they don't have any evidence.

Apparently, unlike earlier reports, there is no definite DNA match between the traces found in the car and Maddie's DNA. They can't say for sure that it is Maddy's.

That is not quite right. According to reports, there is a 80 per cent correspondence between the traces found in the car and in the apartament and Maddie-s DNA. The reason why the McCann-s were not forbidden to leave the country is another, according to Portuguese experts. The measures taken must be proportional to the crime, that is, if the police only suspects the McCan-s killed Maddie accidently, for instance, the police cannot restrict their movements.

VivalaSeles
Sep 11th, 2007, 11:45 AM
The administrators of a $2 million fund set up to help find Madeleine were investigating whether some of the money could be used to help pay the McCanns' legal bills, Britain's Press Association quoted an unidentified family friend as saying.

The McCann-s hired the lawyer who defended the late Chilean dictator Pinochet. There was a lot of talk as to how would they be able to pay him.

Kart
Sep 11th, 2007, 11:57 AM
Is an 80% DNA match enough ? Surely the blood could have come from one of ths siblings. I'm not a geneticist so I don't know.

I have to admit I have a hard time believing the parents killed the child and hid the body so well that the Portugese police couldn't find it despite a huge manhunt.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 11th, 2007, 12:11 PM
Apparently according to the news this morning, the police are now handing over a mystery file of evidence to the prosecution, we should find out something later on tonight hopefully.

spiceboy
Sep 11th, 2007, 01:04 PM
In (another) bizarre twist a Portuguese paper claims that DNA evidences that Gerry is NOT Madeleine's father :help:

drake3781
Sep 11th, 2007, 01:11 PM
In (another) bizarre twist a Portuguese paper claims that DNA evidences that Gerry is NOT Madeleine's father :help:

:eek:

I had a thought that once the couple had their twins, maybe they didn't want the older daughter any more. But I dismissed the thought. Now it comes back.

Avid Merrion
Sep 11th, 2007, 01:14 PM
I am sick of it yeah

and im not convinced of the Mother either, she has a sneaky look about her... not of someone in turmoil.

just because someone looks sneaky or shifty doesn't mean they're guilty. i seem to remember Joanne Lees being hung, drawn and quartered by the media because of her brusque personality after the disappearance of her boyfriend, Peter Falconio in Australia.

although in the case of Madeleine, the media have been so far up the McCann's backsides that if it turns out they are involved in her disappearance, it'll make for an uncomfortable time for tv and newspaper editors, not to mention the Catholic Church who granted them an audience with the Pope....

Avid Merrion
Sep 11th, 2007, 01:20 PM
:eek:

I had a thought that once the couple had their twins, maybe they didn't want the older daughter any more. But I dismissed the thought. Now it comes back.

Madeleine was conceived through IVF treatment, so unless there was some mix up at the lab, i doubt that story holds much truth.

Monica_Rules
Sep 11th, 2007, 03:26 PM
People in this thread :rolleyes:

An 80% match of DNA means nothing as far as i am aware from my genetics modules in Uni. The one thing maybe that the sample of DNA wasn't big enough to get a 100% match. The DNA evidence in the apartment doesn't definately point towards the McCann's it still could be down to someone else. Do we know who else used this hire car before the McCann's? Is it possible that the 'kidnapper'/'killer' used the car before them? that is unlikley but then again why would the McCann's use a hired car?

This 'DNA evidence' in the car still seems fishy to me, its just doesn't make sense when you think of what needed to have happened for it to be there from Madelines corpse.

Viktymise
Sep 11th, 2007, 03:50 PM
I used to find it boring but now that the mummy and the shaggable hubby are suspects, it's much more interesting.

:tape: Ehm i guess if our eyes were gouged out.

borisyBACK
Sep 11th, 2007, 05:00 PM
:tape: Ehm i guess if our eyes were gouged out.

Nice hairy chest ;)

VivalaSeles
Sep 13th, 2007, 12:28 PM
Is an 80% DNA match enough ? Surely the blood could have come from one of ths siblings. I'm not a geneticist so I don't know.

I have to admit I have a hard time believing the parents killed the child and hid the body so well that the Portugese police couldn't find it despite a huge manhunt.

I do not know either, Kart, whether or not a 80% DNA match is enough. However, one should not forget that these traces of blood were spotted by british dogs, specialised in tracking dead blood, that is, blood from dead people. That is why, I believe, the siblings can be counted out.

LCS
Sep 13th, 2007, 12:40 PM
I'm not a Brit but as a Portuguese I believe I am as full of it as most Brits. Don't get me wrong, I feel for the poor girl but clearly the media is exacerbating the whole thing...the news are non-stop about it..and then it's just so much speculation ad seldom we get the true stuff...