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SJW
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:20 PM
Any others starting to respect her?

In the past I've gone from hating her to grudgingly acknowledging her great play but I have to say I respect her now. I've never seen Serena spanked like she was for a set and a half, errors or not. I still think Serena is the best player in the world, but I, like Serena realize Henin is #1 for a reason.

Looking forward already to the next match between the two :)

gentenaire
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:24 PM
What's happening to the board? I had the popcorn ready, was all prepared to watch the mayhem unfold on the board, to see flame wars, but everyone's being so nice. Damn! ;)

I think your feelings for Justine pretty much sum up my feelings for Serena.

Uranus
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:25 PM
I'm looking forward to the next encounter too! :D

Astro Jetson
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:29 PM
:o

Tennisaddict
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:30 PM
I must say I really didn´t like Henin either but last year she started to grow on me. Her game is just awesome when she is on. Her fighting spirit as well.
I have come to like the way she dismantles one dimensional games of hardhitters. After this final I respect her game even more.
Serena was indeed playing awful in the first set but Henin was playing well.
I´m so happy that Serena won and to me she is the best player but Henin definitely right now is second best. I think we´re going to have a great clay season. Hopefully Venus and Mauresmo will be in the mix as well and Clijsters that would be great.

jj74
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:33 PM
I'm on the other way round. I always like Justine, but i used to hate Serena's game.
But now i like Serena, she is the best by far from the hard hitting players. Maybe she is not my favourite type of player but enjoy her game now.
I hope this was the beggining (or a restart) of a great rivaldry, because the contrast of the styles make even more interesting their matches

Mother_Marjorie
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:34 PM
Well, I think both women deserve respect after the match they played today. No one gave Justine much of a chance on hardcourt in Miami vs Serena (even some of Justine's her fans) and she proved she can be formidable on hardcourt, in spite of "the choke." Serena was down two matchpoints and fought her way back to a win after not playing her best tennis for a set and a half.

Both these women, almost equal in age, have a unique opportunity to become the rivalry of their generation. Its very obvious their games "match-up" well against one another and it should bring a great dynamic to the upcoming clay court season.

Brooklyn90
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:34 PM
I respect her, she's a great player! But I still don't like her.

Marshmallow
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:35 PM
I can't see why people wouldn't respect her. She stands at 5,5 (a clear disadvantage) yet has worked EXTREMELY hard to get to the top of the game and stay there. Yes, there are incidents - but her skill, talent, fight... you have to respect that.

I was a little worried when she slipped in the third set, then took her time, and was running like a gazelle soon after. That was a dodgy incident to me, but... respect is still there and always will be. What she has done and still does in incredible!!!

mentos
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:36 PM
Any others starting to respect her?

In the past I've gone from hating her to grudgingly acknowledging her great play but I have to say I respect her now. I've never seen Serena spanked like she was for a set and a half, errors or not. I still think Serena is the best player in the world, but I, like Serena realize Henin is #1 for a reason.

Looking forward already to the next match between the two :)
Love her or hate her you've got to give Justine props. I really respect her game and feel that at her size she is truly amazing. Just a tough little fighter--and a deserved no. 1 & champion. That being said,














GO SERENA!

aisha
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:38 PM
]I must say I really didn´t like Henin either but last year she started to grow on me. Her game is just awesome when she is on. Her fighting spirit as well.[/B]
I have come to like the way she dismantles one dimensional games of hardhitters. After this final I respect her game even more.
Serena was indeed playing awful in the first set but Henin was playing well.
I´m so happy that Serena won and to me she is the best player but Henin definitely right now is second best. I think we´re going to have a great clay season. Hopefully Venus and Mauresmo will be in the mix as well and Clijsters that would be great.


Same here.

She's a great player with a fantastic game. :hearts:
And she's so mentally tough and really doesn't have any weaknesses. So, on those merits alone, she deserves respect.

I didn't start to root for her until she was losing to boring ass Mauresmo. :ras:

barmaid
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:41 PM
I respect her, she's a great player! But I still don't like her.

They are both great players..certainly Justine proved today she can "humble" one of the best in the game..she was aggressive, her backhand was "dead on" and showed great variety at the net and in her angles. She was the one serving for the match at 5-4....she was that close to victory....so you can give credit for Serena "hanging in there"but Justine definitely lowered her level of play in the 3rd set. Like or hate who you want but todays' tennis was all about skills and wills today!:worship:

barmaid:wavey:

Kunal
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:42 PM
they could really bring the wta to life.....

SJW
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:42 PM
I can't see why people wouldn't respect her. She stands at 5,5 (a clear disadvantage) yet has worked EXTREMELY hard to get to the top of the game and stay there. Yes, there are incidents - but her skill, talent, fight... you have to respect that.

I was a little worried when she slipped in the third set, then took her time, and was running like a gazelle soon after. That was a dodgy incident to me, but... respect is still there and always will be. What she has done and still does in incredible!!!

While trying to keep the positive theme of this thread alive, her gamesmanship has been somewhat suspect at times IMO. She just rubbed me the wrong way. Now I'm not saying that I'm her biggest fan suddenly, but the gets major cool points for the way she almost thrashed Serena today.

Orion
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:43 PM
I always had a grudging respect for Justine, because her game is so fantastic and I appreciate short players, but in particular she's been more and more respectable since after the AO last year. She's never going to be one of my top ten favorites, but I always pull for good tennis, and she's very good.

I think it's easy to forget how young she was in 2003, and how unprepared she was to face scrutiny like that. The Williams (while never unfair) certainly made some errors in judgment back in their younger years. All really good players are polarizing in some way, and the interesting ones have volatile personalities.

No Name Face
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:43 PM
Any others starting to respect her?

In the past I've gone from hating her to grudgingly acknowledging her great play but I have to say I respect her now. I've never seen Serena spanked like she was for a set and a half, errors or not. I still think Serena is the best player in the world, but I, like Serena realize Henin is #1 for a reason.

Looking forward already to the next match between the two :)

totally agreed.

i'm starting to like her because:
1. she was truly classy in defeat.
2. she's got an amazingly beautiful game.
3. she's gone through a lot of shit.
4. she's not spoiled and whiny like another belgian.

she used to be in my least favorite player list, now she's in my favorable-neutrality category. i would have felt this way had serena lost too, so that bodes well for justine. :yeah:

Henin's the best
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:44 PM
She's the most complete player on the WTA. She's gone through a lot in her life, just like Serena. I respect Serena. But I'm a fan of Justine forever.

jimbo mack
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:47 PM
i used to hate justine in 2003/2004 as i did not like the poor sportsmanship/gamesmanship she showed in some matches. But when she won the french in 2005 you could see how much tennis meant to her and how much she had been through to win a grandslam again, and i have respected her ever since. i will never be a fan however ;)

Orion
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:48 PM
totally agreed.

i'm starting to like her because:
1. she was truly classy in defeat.
2. she's got an amazingly beautiful game.
3. she's gone through a lot of shit.
4. she's not spoiled and whiny like another belgian.

she used to be in my least favorite player list, now she's in my favorable-neutrality category. i would have felt this way had serena lost too, so that bodes well for justine. :yeah:

I agree totally. Venus was the one who once said something about how the American media always talks about the disadvantaged background that she and Serena come from, and forget that tons of Europeans come from comparably difficult backgrounds. Justine is definitely one of them. To not have a real family in a sport where almost everyone has a support system is difficult.

What I admire a lot about both Serena and Justine is how they've been inspired by their situations to become the best. That's a fantastic lesson for anyone.

Marshmallow
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:48 PM
While trying to keep the positive theme of this thread alive, her gamesmanship has been somewhat suspect at times IMO. She just rubbed me the wrong way. Now I'm not saying that I'm her biggest fan suddenly, but the gets major cool points for the way she almost thrashed Serena today.


:) I completely understand.

cancelled1
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:52 PM
I have a lot of respect for her. She is a great player and one of Serena's greatest rivals.

tennis_pIayer
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:55 PM
justine is awesome and she'll be my favorite player until she retires. Steffi is my #1 and juju is my #2

Apoleb
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:56 PM
I can't see why people wouldn't respect her.

I agree. People might not like her persoality or may be annoyed by her antics, but what's undeniable is that she's just one very amazing tennis player so I do think it's ignorant when people don't respect her. Besides her very obvious natural talent (that backhand is just very much her own shot), the way she has worked on her game in the last few years in order to survive with the big hitters on a fast court is just amazing. Who really can change the serve action that much in a couple of months? And ofcourse the improvements she made on her forehand are also amazing. I thought she was kinda channeling Steffi when she ran behind her backhand to hit an inside out forehand return winner.

Apoleb
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:56 PM
I can't see why people wouldn't respect her.

I agree. People might not like her persoality or may be annoyed by her antics, but what's undeniable is that she's just one very amazing tennis player so I do think it's ignorant when people don't respect her. Besides her very obvious natural talent (that backhand is just very much her own shot), the way she has worked on her game in the last few years in order to survive with the big hitters on a fast court is just amazing. Who really can change the serve action that much in a couple of months? And ofcourse the improvements she made on her forehand are also amazing. I thought she was kinda channeling Steffi when she ran behind her backhand to hit an inside out forehand return winner.

cancelled1
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:02 PM
I agree totally. Venus was the one who once said something about how the American media always talks about the disadvantaged background that she and Serena come from, and forget that tons of Europeans come from comparably difficult backgrounds. Justine is definitely one of them. To not have a real family in a sport where almost everyone has a support system is difficult.

What I admire a lot about both Serena and Justine is how they've been inspired by their situations to become the best. That's a fantastic lesson for anyone.

Good post.

Uranus
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:04 PM
totally agreed.

i'm starting to like her because:
1. she was truly classy in defeat.
2. she's got an amazingly beautiful game.
3. she's gone through a lot of shit.
4. she's not spoiled and whiny like another belgian.

she used to be in my least favorite player list, now she's in my favorable-neutrality category. i would have felt this way had serena lost too, so that bodes well for justine. :yeah:
Aren't there enough threads to talk (crap) about Clijsters?
Amazing how a Justine thread, plus where everyone is pretty kind for once, can't exist without nasty words about Kim.

SJW
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:07 PM
I agree. People might not like her persoality or may be annoyed by her antics, but what's undeniable is that she's just one very amazing tennis player so I do think it's ignorant when people don't respect her. Besides her very obvious natural talent (that backhand is just very much her own shot), the way she has worked on her game in the last few years in order to survive with the big hitters on a fast court is just amazing. Who really can change the serve action that much in a couple of months? And ofcourse the improvements she made on her forehand are also amazing. I thought she was kinda channeling Steffi when she ran behind her backhand to hit an inside out forehand return winner.

In that case, you DO understand why some don't respect her.
If you read my previous post you would see that I said I appreciated her game. :confused:

simba
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:08 PM
justine you are a true number one ;) . for now, i have a lot of respect fo you.:worship:

cellophane
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:09 PM
Aren't there enough threads to talk (crap) about Clijsters?
Amazing how a Justine thread, plus where everyone is pretty kind for once, can't exist without nasty words about Kim.

:lol:

Justine is amazing. I certainly don't hate her anymore. She is one tough cookie.

I'm Fly
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:13 PM
I can't stand her and I definitely don't respect her after her blatant cheating against Serena and fake injury against Davenport.

.ivy.
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:15 PM
I can't stand her and I definitely don't respect her after her blatant cheating against Serena and fake injury against Davenport.

29 posts! Is that some sort of record where a thread about Justine and Serena stayed civil in GM? :rolleyes:

Mina Vagante
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:16 PM
i dont like her, but her play is very good. sooo speedy

Apoleb
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:26 PM
In that case, you DO understand why some don't respect her.
If you read my previous post you would see that I said I appreciated her game. :confused:

Well that wasn't really directed to you, but no, I expect people to at least show respect for her tennis.

tennismaster8820
Mar 31st, 2007, 09:28 PM
Justine is an amazing player, she didn't choke badly, just was a bit unlucky, but Serena deserved it by playing so bravely! :yeah:
I always respected them both, nothing changes after this match!

CrossCourt~Rally
Mar 31st, 2007, 09:29 PM
What's happening to the board? I had the popcorn ready, was all prepared to watch the mayhem unfold on the board, to see flame wars, but everyone's being so nice. Damn! ;)

I think your feelings for Justine pretty much sum up my feelings for Serena.

:lol:

Rocketta
Mar 31st, 2007, 09:34 PM
I respect as I respect all human beings but that's about it. :shrug: She played a good first set but honestly who could tell how much was her and how much was a sucky Serena.

bandabou
Mar 31st, 2007, 09:41 PM
Agreed...she's grown on me. I think "the-hand" is history. That handshake at the net was very nice. Justine's a player and great champion. For sure.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 31st, 2007, 09:48 PM
Justine made a huge deposit in the bank of RESPECT today. She took it to Serena in the first, taking good advantage of Serena's struggles. Not every player is capable of taking advantage like that- and certainly not to do so AT LOVE. I hate to cite this, but witness Vee(whom I love) against Shapo.

Anyway, Juju will NEVER be on my fave list (at least not until she's a crusty ol' toothless lioness :lol: ), but she showed real class today.

Dawn Marie
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:00 PM
I liked Justine before the hand incident. I was pissed off about that hand incident but I never once disliked her game and mental toughness. I liked her back when she was mentally fragile. I liked her backstory since day one.

smarties
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:02 PM
Well I became a fan today; even though she kind of choke in the 2nd set, she has such an amazing game unlike any other player. Got to give props to Serena, she really fought it out today.

auntie janie
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:02 PM
"The relationship is very good now," Henin said. "We have a lot of respect for each other. We both agree that we are very good players. :yeah: So what happened in the past is far away from now." :hearts:

GoDominique
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:06 PM
I respect as I respect all human beings but that's about it. :shrug: She played a good first set but honestly who could tell how much was her and how much was a sucky Serena.
Me.

Demska
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:10 PM
Her backhand is just :bowdown:

Thkmra
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:37 PM
What's happening to the board? I had the popcorn ready, was all prepared to watch the mayhem unfold on the board, to see flame wars, but everyone's being so nice. Damn! ;)

I think your feelings for Justine pretty much sum up my feelings for Serena.

:lol: I know!! It's just that the fans appreciate great play, more than the insipid rivalries, and resentments.

No Name Face
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:41 PM
Aren't there enough threads to talk (crap) about Clijsters?
Amazing how a Justine thread, plus where everyone is pretty kind for once, can't exist without nasty words about Kim.

i never said a nasty word about kim. where in my post is kim clijsters mentioned? for all you know, i could have meant one of those lesser known belgians, like kirsten flipkens. she's a real brat sometimes.

cellophane
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:57 PM
i never said a nasty word about kim. where in my post is kim clijsters mentioned? for all you know, i could have meant one of those lesser known belgians, like kirsten flipkens. she's a real brat sometimes.

:lol: at Kirsten being a brat.

Mightymirza
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:58 PM
Hmmm..Well good to see some good will here on the GM..:) Serenas fighting spirit :worship: I dint like serena much in past but since shes been thru all this shit and lawyers,media scrutiny and coming through among all the doubters( I was one of em :o ) but i have hell of a respect for tht woman..:yeah: And miami is a fast hard court right??Why do people keep on saying its slow? :shrug: I maybe wrong though..

.Andrew.
Mar 31st, 2007, 10:59 PM
I've always respected Justine. Never in doubt.

No Name Face
Mar 31st, 2007, 11:00 PM
:lol: at Kirsten being a brat.

and i hope you can find the humor in that, ivan.

DemWilliamsGulls
Mar 31st, 2007, 11:07 PM
Any others starting to respect her?

In the past I've gone from hating her to grudgingly acknowledging her great play but I have to say I respect her now. I've never seen Serena spanked like she was for a set and a half, errors or not. I still think Serena is the best player in the world, but I, like Serena realize Henin is #1 for a reason.

Looking forward already to the next match between the two :)

I'll admit i'm not a Justine Henin fan...but I have always respected her....and after watching her play today I respect her even more....Serena made a lot of errors in the first set...but Justine Henin was still in on her ass throughout the match...Serena HAD step up her game to beat Justine...much resepect for Henin...still not one of my favorites but..MUCH respect..:worship:

SJW
Apr 1st, 2007, 07:55 PM
Well that wasn't really directed to you, but no, I expect people to at least show respect for her tennis.

I can't think of anyone who doesn't respect her shots. We were talking about Henin as a tennis player (which involves on-court attitude, sportsmanship etc).

Bijoux0021
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:17 PM
I can't stand her and I definitely don't respect her after her blatant cheating against Serena and fake injury against Davenport.Same here!

And there have been many more unsportmanships from her, including quiting in the 2006 AO final after she was getting humiliated.

Allez-H
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:23 PM
[/B]Same here!

And there have been many more unsportmanships from her, including quiting in the 2005 AO final after she was getting humiliated.

She quit in 2006, cheated in 2004, but wasn't present in 2005. If you're going to diss her, than atleast get your facts right :wavey:

Apoorv
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:28 PM
I see a ray of hope. A rivalry where two players are both mentally tough and talented and can play good at the same time. I hope these two remain fit and play a lot of time for next few years. WTA needs this more than anything else.

mauresmofan
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:32 PM
Yes you really have to respect the passion, drive and determination she displays in every one of her tennis matches. A true Champion and she is made of granite! I used not be a big fan of Serena but over the years I've liked her more and more - I've always respected her and I always expected her to overthrow Venus because technically she has wonderful strokes that won't break down!

RenaSlam.
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:40 PM
:)

Bijoux0021
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:40 PM
She quit in 2006, cheated in 2004, but wasn't present in 2005. If you're going to diss her, than atleast get your facts right :wavey:
Thanks for the correction. I meant to say 2006. I wouldn't diss her so much if more of her fans would be honest enough to admit her unsportmanships.

DavidEllul
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the correction. I meant to say 2006. I wouldn't diss her so much if more of her fans would be honest enough to admit her unsportmanships.

you are so off topic here.. i see u just want to start all those shits again. Get some new stuff

Sefo
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:55 PM
I too think that the "2nd fall" was a bluff. And Serena knew and wasn't really affected. The game never turned back 'round again.
But game wise Justine is the real #1 right now. Serena just couldn't "beat the hype out" of Justine. I think that's why we didn't see a jumping around Serena at the end.

Bijoux0021
Apr 1st, 2007, 08:57 PM
"The relationship is very good now," Henin said. "We have a lot of respect for each other. We both agree that we are very good players. :yeah: So what happened in the past is far away from now." :hearts:
:lol: :lol: :lol: There's nothing wrong with wishful thinking! She and her fans are so desperate to change what happened, which is impossible. Each time she and Serena meet and whenever RG '03 is being discussed, it will be brought up, because it's part of tennis history.

JustineTime
Apr 1st, 2007, 09:02 PM
She quit in 2006, cheated in 2004, but wasn't present in 2005. If you're going to diss her, than atleast get your facts right :wavey:

:haha: :haha:

:rolls:

JustineTime
Apr 1st, 2007, 09:06 PM
Thanks for the correction. I meant to say 2006. I wouldn't diss her so much if more of her fans would be honest enough to admit her unsportmanships.

Justine's never had unsportsmanships...NEVER! :mad: :mad: :mad:

She's always been a lily-white 100% pristine unblemished :angel:

:woohoo: Spoken like a TRUE Justine Fan! :woohoo:

:yeah:

:ras:

moon
Apr 1st, 2007, 10:29 PM
I've always respected her shots, and was starting to be neutral towards her again (post 2003) until last year. Yesterday was a great match, but I'll still be rooting against her most times. She's the new Hingis for me.

AkademiQ
Apr 2nd, 2007, 01:28 AM
I too think that the "2nd fall" was a bluff. And Serena knew and wasn't really affected. The game never turned back 'round again.
But game wise Justine is the real #1 right now. Serena just couldn't "beat the hype out" of Justine. I think that's why we didn't see a jumping around Serena at the end.

Justine is the #1 ranked player right now however Serena beat Justine. She beat her game and everything associated with it. I think that's enough.

cellophane
Apr 2nd, 2007, 01:35 AM
I respect her for her dedication, hard work and getting where she is despite her size, not just because she has a great game.

tennisbum79
Apr 2nd, 2007, 01:43 AM
Well, I think both women deserve respect after the match they played today. No one gave Justine much of a chance on hardcourt in Miami vs Serena (even some of Justine's her fans) and she proved she can be formidable on hardcourt, in spite of "the choke." Serena was down two matchpoints and fought her way back to a win after not playing her best tennis for a set and a half.

Both these women, almost equal in age, have a unique opportunity to become the rivalry of their generation. Its very obvious their games "match-up" well against one another and it should bring a great dynamic to the upcoming clay court season.
Whoaw, you too!
What has this board come to?

It is like New Yorkers after 911.
It is like having a heart and brain transplant at the same time

Now if you could just visit this thread to record your thoughts. We will save these threads

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=292733

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 2nd, 2007, 02:42 AM
I too think that the "2nd fall" was a bluff.

I don't think that second fall was a bluff. Did you see the slow mo'? Her left knee slightly hyper-extended. She's actually quite lucky (AND flexible).

mykarma
Apr 2nd, 2007, 02:51 AM
Well, I think both women deserve respect after the match they played today. No one gave Justine much of a chance on hardcourt in Miami vs Serena (even some of Justine's her fans) and she proved she can be formidable on hardcourt, in spite of "the choke." Serena was down two matchpoints and fought her way back to a win after not playing her best tennis for a set and a half.

Both these women, almost equal in age, have a unique opportunity to become the rivalry of their generation. Its very obvious their games "match-up" well against one another and it should bring a great dynamic to the upcoming clay court season.
Why is it that when Serena wins, her opponent always chokes. Serena is the best fighter on tour at this time and everyone knows she'll never give up. It's not as though this is the first time she's ever done this.

cellophane
Apr 2nd, 2007, 02:55 AM
Why is it that when Serena wins, her opponent always chokes. Serena is the best fighter on tour at this time and everyone knows she'll never give up. It's not as though this is the first time she's ever done this.

Not always. It's just that because everyone knows what a great fighter Serena is, they can get tight.

mykarma
Apr 2nd, 2007, 02:58 AM
Justine made a huge deposit in the bank of RESPECT today. She took it to Serena in the first, taking good advantage of Serena's struggles. Not every player is capable of taking advantage like that- and certainly not to do so AT LOVE. I hate to cite this, but witness Vee(whom I love) against Shapo.

Anyway, Juju will NEVER be on my fave list (at least not until she's a crusty ol' toothless lioness :lol: ), but she showed real class today.
:haha::haha::haha:

MisterQ
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:06 AM
I was thinking back the other day to Justine circa 2002... like when she led Venus 6-2, 4-0 at Amelia Island before collapsing mentally (credit to Venus for her signature fighting spirit too, of course). Many people wondered whether Justine would ever fulfill her obvious talent because of her mental weakness.

In light of that, it really is remarkable how she has become such a fighter and won 5 majors.

Both women gave us a lot to be impressed about in this final. :cool:

mykarma
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:06 AM
I too think that the "2nd fall" was a bluff. And Serena knew and wasn't really affected. The game never turned back 'round again.
But game wise Justine is the real #1 right now. Serena just couldn't "beat the hype out" of Justine. I think that's why we didn't see a jumping around Serena at the end.
I know. I think she knew Serena was going to win and she was trying to decide whether she was going to get up or pretend she was injuried. I know my comment is not in the spirit of the post but, this is her history and it's what I thought. Anyhow, I was happy that she got up. I didn't want the match to end that way.

I think the reason we didn't see a jumping around Serena is because she couldn't believe she's played so bad and still won the match.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:07 AM
Why is it that when Serena wins, her opponent always chokes. Serena is the best fighter on tour at this time and everyone knows she'll never give up. It's not as though this is the first time she's ever done this.
Textbook choke:

6-0, 5-4 (40-15) serving for the match, but lose.

mykarma
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:07 AM
[/b]
:lol: :lol: :lol: There's nothing wrong with wishful thinking! She and her fans are so desperate to change what happened, which is impossible. Each time she and Serena meet and whenever RG '03 is being discussed, it will be brought up, because it's part of tennis history.
I think Serena has moved on but she'll never forget "the hand" incident or what Justine's coach said afterwards.

mykarma
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:09 AM
Textbook choke:

6-0, 5-4 (40-15) serving for the match, but lose.
Because Serena wasn't gonna have it.

vejh
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:15 AM
Oh geez, her left leg slightly hyper-extended? Just great :(

mykarma
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:16 AM
Not always. It's just that because everyone knows what a great fighter Serena is, they can get tight.
DAMN! A positive statement from Cellophane about Serena. :worship:

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:18 AM
Because Serena wasn't gonna have it.
Well, Justine in an earlier round in Miami came back from being down 1-5 in the third set. That is another example of a textbook choke by an opponent.

Any tennis player that serves for the match at anytime during the match but fails, and eventually loses the match choked.

I'm amazed how the term "choke" is incorrectly applied in this forum.

Wayn77
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:19 AM
Not sure it was a choke from Justine.
Sure she would have been absolutely gutted not closing it out in the second. She lost the match going down 0-3 at the beginning of the third. JuJu dug deep to get back into the match but that is no lead to give S Williams in the deciding set.

cellophane
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:21 AM
DAMN! A positive statement from Cellophane about Serena. :worship:

Um, I've never EVER denied she was a great fighter. This match just proves she is THE best fighter.

mykarma
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:22 AM
Well, Justine in an earlier round in Miami came back from being down 1-5 in the third set. That is another example of a textbook choke by an opponent.

Any tennis player that serves for the match at anytime during the match but fails, and eventually loses the match choked.
I don't disagree but to each it's own.

Mightymirza
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:24 AM
my only regret is on the MPs and later early in 3rs set Justine dint play aggressive enough..Hey BH and FH were clearly sitting in middle of court and tad bit short..You dont give Serena williams a ball like that or she will pounce on it.. Looked like she was waiting for an error off williams racket..But Rena took it to her..Hope justine comes back strong next time she plays rena..Allez juju

cellophane
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:25 AM
Not sure it was a choke from Justine.
Sure she would have been absolutely gutted not closing it out in the second. She lost the match going down 0-3 at the beginning of the third. JuJu dug deep to get back into the match but that is no lead to give S Williams in the deciding set.

I think the hold at 3-0 allowed her to believe again, as well as Serena playing a sloppy game allowed her come back to 3-3. It wasn't until 4-3 that she lost that match. I don't remember the game, but she just made some errors she shouldn't have. Don't remember if the shots were pressure shots by Serena or if she should have made it. At any rate, Justine should have believed more.

KingA
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:26 AM
Justine!!
She has the most complete game in today's women's tennis!
But always seems like she has these misfortunes in her life which stop her from being the best!

I really hope she can win Wimbledon this year! And please... give her some luck!!! :angel:

cellophane
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:28 AM
Well, Justine in an earlier round in Miami came back from being down 1-5 in the third set. That is another example of a textbook choke by an opponent.

Any tennis player that serves for the match at anytime during the match but fails, and eventually loses the match choked.

I'm amazed how the term "choke" is incorrectly applied in this forum.

When either Justine or Serena comes back from those deficits, it can be a combination of a choke and the play by the opponent, because while one player may falter, the other one will fight like hell, which will only deflate your confidence further.

vejh
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:28 AM
Ju doesn't believe in luck in sports.lol. Give her something else.lol Her path to the top has certainly been a bit different than most great players. And she's still rising.

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:36 AM
Well, Justine in an earlier round in Miami came back from being down 1-5 in the third set. That is another example of a textbook choke by an opponent.

Any tennis player that serves for the match at anytime during the match but fails, and eventually loses the match choked.

I'm amazed how the term "choke" is incorrectly applied in this forum.

So your saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for a player to get OUTPLAYED on the following point while up a match point??

If that's what you're saying, and it certainly seems to be the implication, I think you're dead wrong.

Just because someone is up match point doesn't mean that can't get out played on the following point- or points for that matter.

DimaDinosaur
Apr 2nd, 2007, 03:45 AM
Serena and Justine will be friends one day

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:05 AM
my only regret is on the MPs and later early in 3rs set Justine dint play aggressive enough..Hey BH and FH were clearly sitting in middle of court and tad bit short..You dont give Serena williams a ball like that or she will pounce on it.. Looked like she was waiting for an error off williams racket..But Rena took it to her..Hope justine comes back strong next time she plays rena..Allez juju

From Justine's website:

"I really enjoyed my time here this time, even if it's been hard. I could have been out of the tournament in my third round, I was down 5 1 and just kept fighting. It was much better this year. I enjoyed my game. I've played good tennis in the last few days. Yeah, that gives confidence even if I lost today, and I hope next year I can come, you know, another way and be a little bit more confident about this tournament. So much better this year for sure."- JH

Ntour
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:09 AM
I respect her, she's a great player! But I still don't like her.

i feel the same the other way around, I have always respected serenas game, and her as a champion, even more now, but I can't call myself a fan

Ntour
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:14 AM
So your saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for a player to get OUTPLAYED on the following point while up a match point??

If that's what you're saying, and it certainly seems to be the implication, I think you're dead wrong.

Just because someone is up match point doesn't mean that can't get out played on the following point- or points for that matter.

I agree, I hte the way people always just say "it was so and so who choked the other player had nothing to do with it" in the Miami final justine let up slightly and played a little too defensive but serena took it to her all the way and ought for it it was moe serena fighting han justine choking

littlebin
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:23 AM
I believe more in Justine beating herself. Because up to 40-15, she was total in control. Suddenly, after wasting the match points, she lost 6 games in a row and down at 0-3 in third set. I think such kind of collapse is definitely a choke.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:32 AM
I agree, I hte the way people always just say "it was so and so who choked the other player had nothing to do with it"
Who said that?

SJW
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:32 AM
I believe more in Justine beating herself. Because up to 40-15, she was total in control. Suddenly, after wasting the match points, she lost 6 games in a row and down at 0-3 in third set. I think such kind of collapse is definitely a choke.

Or a showcase of the ability of the most talented player of her generation.
Serena Williams is not just some scrub. She has comeback against top class players time and time again. No other player has won a slam twice after being match point down.
Serena is an amazing fighter, and I find it very disrespectful that some people think the only way she can save championship points against Henin was because Henin choked. Please, she is the master of comebacks. Don't take it personally :)

littlebin
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:44 AM
I didn't said Serena can not save championship points against Henin. I didn't say the only way either.
What I refered is from total control to losing 6 games in a row. This is definitely not normal, definitely a collapse.

Serena is an amazing fighter, but Henin's collapse helped her a lot.

Or a showcase of the ability of the most talented player of her generation.
Serena Williams is not just some scrub. She has comeback against top class players time and time again. No other player has won a slam twice after being match point down.
Serena is an amazing fighter, and I find it very disrespectful that some people think the only way she can save championship points against Henin was because Henin choked. Please, she is the master of comebacks. Don't take it personally :)

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:46 AM
and I find it very disrespectful that some people think the only way she can save championship points against Henin was because Henin choked.
Those who have followed the sport, or play(ed) it for any length of time, better understand the psychology of failing mentally at critical moments during a match, to later go on to lose, otherwise known as "choking."

Going into the Miami tournament, Justine had never gotten past the quarterfinals of Miami and historically never left a positive memory to give her the confidence to win the tournament, in my opinion. She was playing a woman in the finals that she's never beaten on a fast surface.

I think Justine was probably as shocked as anyone to see herself at 6-0, 5-4 (40-15) serving for the match. I don't think she was psychologically prepared for that moment so quickly, having mentally prepared for a three-set slug-fest. In fact, I'd go even further to say that Justine wasn't mentally prepared to win so easily.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with "disrespect," rather, digging a little deeper than the superficial surface of what an average tennis fan would otherwise "see."

Justine was similarly on the other side of the spectrum, when her underdog third round opponent choked, leading Justine 5-1 in the third set, and Justine went on to win that match. Textbook choking occured when her opponent couldn't serve out the match.

In both cases, I'm being totally consistent about the psychology of the sport and the possibility of lowered expectations affecting the outcome. Those who attempt to create some negative connetation are not being objective and quite cynical in my opinion.

Apoleb
Apr 2nd, 2007, 04:58 AM
Justine was clearly nervous at 5-4 and was tentative. I think the prospect of beating a Williams on a hard court got to her, especially with a score like 60 64. But those 2 points weren't really the issue. She was not the same player after that game, and lost 5 straight games. I think it did shake her psychologically.

moby
Apr 2nd, 2007, 05:07 AM
Stop the speculations. This is what Justine had to say about the subject:

I felt I was better until the end of the second set. I felt I had the match under control, and then the match turned over. Yeah, I was playing a good game. I was really aggressive. But when I had to close the match, I got maybe tense a little bit. And Serena is a fighter; she never gives up. And she proved it on the matchpoints because she took her chances at the time, she played really aggressive. She played better than me on the important points.

Q. Do you feel the fall inhibited your game in any way?
Well, for a few points maybe I wasn't really focused anymore like I was before that. But no excuses. I mean, at that time I had my chances before that, and I still had my chances after that. I didn't take the opportunities. I didn't play aggressive enough when I had to on the important points at the end of the match that made the difference at this level. And the only thing I can have regrets about is that for a few games I wasn't really focused on every point, and I lost a couple of games in a row because I was maybe still focused on these matchpoints and these opportunities that I missed. At this level, games are going pretty fast.

Q. On the two matchpoints as you think back on them, do you feel that Serena forced the play and seized those points or did you in some way make errors of judgment on them?
Yeah, on the first one, she played unbelievable. On the first one she's been very aggressive. I kept fighting, you know, these two lobs. On the second one, her ball was pretty heavy, and I didn't hit as hard on my forehand as I maybe did it a few games earlier. So maybe I have a little chance over there. I played pretty short, and she goes for it with her forehand. You know, we can talk about that when you see it, when you look at it, it's two points in the match. So even if it's matchpoints, it's not as important as the few games after that I lost. I should have stayed a little bit more focused and concentrated at that time.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 2nd, 2007, 05:11 AM
Stop the speculations. This is what Justine had to say about the subject:

I felt I was better until the end of the second set. I felt I had the match under control, and then the match turned over. Yeah, I was playing a good game. I was really aggressive. But when I had to close the match, I got maybe tense a little bit. And Serena is a fighter; she never gives up. And she proved it on the matchpoints because she took her chances at the time, she played really aggressive. She played better than me on the important points.

Enough said.

cellophane
Apr 2nd, 2007, 05:25 AM
Justine couldn't put a first serve in in that 5-4 game... certainly 3 second serves in a row helped Serena who pounced on them and played attacking tennis. From then on Justine mad some misses she really shouldn't have made. Serena is capable of coming back without the opponent helping, but really it's Henin who should have made these shots.

strictennis
Apr 2nd, 2007, 05:51 AM
I'm liking her now! Don't ask me why! (Hint: K-Crap)

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 2nd, 2007, 06:29 AM
"Any tennis player that serves for the match at anytime during the match but fails, and eventually loses the match choked."
Swami, you still haven't answered my question based on your statement above.

Do you think it's impossible for someone holding a match point to get OUTPLAYED on the FOLLOWING POINT??

Denise4925
Apr 2nd, 2007, 06:58 AM
I agree, I hte the way people always just say "it was so and so who choked the other player had nothing to do with it" in the Miami final justine let up slightly and played a little too defensive but serena took it to her all the way and ought for it it was moe serena fighting han justine choking

:worship: :worship: :worship: Excellent observation and very objective.

Denise4925
Apr 2nd, 2007, 07:04 AM
Swami, you still haven't answered my question based on your statement above.

Do you think it's impossible for someone holding a match point to get OUTPLAYED on the FOLLOWING POINT??

She's not going to answer that and if she does, it will be circular logic she applies. :rolleyes:

eck
Apr 2nd, 2007, 07:16 AM
Yes, Justine had a choke there, but Serena knew it, and unlike other opponents, she made the most of it. And clearly from then onwards, it was the Serena show. I'm pretty sure that break was the confidence booster she wanted. And even though Justine broke back, and failed to convert again, Serena took charge. So all credit to Serena. That's all there is to it really, for me.
I'm upset the fact that Justine lost, but Serena was the better player from then onwards.

Bruno71
Apr 2nd, 2007, 07:43 AM
I'm upset the fact that Justine lost, but Serena was the better player from then onwards.

Except in the games from 3-0 Serena to 3-3, 3rd set ;) . Then Justine choked again :lol:

eck
Apr 2nd, 2007, 07:58 AM
Except in the games from 3-0 Serena to 3-3, 3rd set ;) . Then Justine choked again :lol:

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
I'm trying to forget that :o


:p

jenny161185
Apr 2nd, 2007, 10:12 AM
great match by two great ladies :)

ZeroSOFInfinity
Apr 2nd, 2007, 11:17 AM
I am so glad that most of Serena and Justine fans were in perfect harmony after this match. I was expecting "Hell On WTAWorld Boards" right after the match ended, but instead what I saw was "Heaven" instead :angel:

You all deserve a big clap :bigclap: :bigclap: :bigclap: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

Still, there are one or two posters who decides that hatred is the way to go on... well, I'm really sorry for them. You know who you are.... :help:

Seenus
Apr 2nd, 2007, 12:22 PM
Well, Justine in an earlier round in Miami came back from being down 1-5 in the third set. That is another example of a textbook choke by an opponent.

Any tennis player that serves for the match at anytime during the match but fails, and eventually loses the match choked.

I'm amazed how the term "choke" is incorrectly applied in this forum.

I dont agree. A choke implies that the choker's level of play dropped when victory was at hand. If the level of play was consistent then there was no choke even if there was a loss. Think about it.

trufanjay
Apr 2nd, 2007, 12:32 PM
I am also surprised that the fans didn't come in here ready to rumble after the match. I think both fans have learned to respect both players. The problem has always been the fact that Serena's fans strongly believe that Serena is the best and Justine's fans strongly believe that she is the best. And of course the hand incident set Serena fans off for a while. But I have always respected Justine just like I respected Capriati back in 01-04. But the harmony is here...........for now.

Rocketta
Apr 2nd, 2007, 05:44 PM
If people are determined to look at it as Justine somehow contributed to Serena's comeback then they need to credit Serena for Justine even having matchpoints....because the first set was gift wrapped by Serena. :rolleyes:

Mightymirza
Apr 2nd, 2007, 05:47 PM
If people are determined to look at it as Justine somehow contributed to Serena's comeback then they need to credit Serena for Justine even having matchpoints....because the first set was gift wrapped by Serena. :rolleyes:

Well justine also dropped her level on those MPs..You could see her waiting for Serena to make errors..Just spinning those shots in :tape: you are in trouble when you do this against serena :tape: ( or even sharpy at USO 06 exact same thign happened) Ju is at her best when shes aggressive..She just stopped being that..Serena was just mentally tougher..Took her opportunities very well..

V-MAC
Apr 2nd, 2007, 06:06 PM
pah, WtaWorld should stick to being bitchy :armed:

John.
Apr 2nd, 2007, 06:25 PM
I respect Juju but I don't like her.

However, great match by both on Saturday

SAEKeithSerena
Apr 2nd, 2007, 06:52 PM
I respect her, she's a great player! But I still don't like her.



:worship: :kiss:

R. Federer
Apr 2nd, 2007, 06:59 PM
I have always had Hingis, Serena and Justine as my top 3.

The only time I soured slightly on Justine was at the Australian in 06, when I felt (obviously I am not in her body so can't speak for her) she could have finished, not competitively, but for sportsmanship.

Nevertheless, I find it very hard to root for anyone when Serena/Justine/Hingis are playing each other.

StarDuvallGrant
Apr 2nd, 2007, 11:23 PM
If people are determined to look at it as Justine somehow contributed to Serena's comeback then they need to credit Serena for Justine even having matchpoints....because the first set was gift wrapped by Serena. :rolleyes:

I know :lol: Instead you're supposed to think that was just superior Justine in total control and suddenly she chokes. How nice.

Thkmra
Apr 3rd, 2007, 12:15 AM
Those who have followed the sport, or play(ed) it for any length of time, better understand the psychology of failing mentally at critical moments during a match, to later go on to lose, otherwise known as "choking."

Going into the Miami tournament, Justine had never gotten past the quarterfinals of Miami and historically never left a positive memory to give her the confidence to win the tournament, in my opinion. She was playing a woman in the finals that she's never beaten on a fast surface.

I think Justine was probably as shocked as anyone to see herself at 6-0, 5-4 (40-15) serving for the match. I don't think she was psychologically prepared for that moment so quickly, having mentally prepared for a three-set slug-fest. In fact, I'd go even further to say that Justine wasn't mentally prepared to win so easily.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with "disrespect," rather, digging a little deeper than the superficial surface of what an average tennis fan would otherwise "see."

Justine was similarly on the other side of the spectrum, when her underdog third round opponent choked, leading Justine 5-1 in the third set, and Justine went on to win that match. Textbook choking occured when her opponent couldn't serve out the match.

In both cases, I'm being totally consistent about the psychology of the sport and the possibility of lowered expectations affecting the outcome. Those who attempt to create some negative connetation are not being objective and quite cynical in my opinion.

Are you done?:lol: :lol:

LUIS9
Apr 3rd, 2007, 01:08 AM
Any others starting to respect her?

In the past I've gone from hating her to grudgingly acknowledging her great play but I have to say I respect her now. I've never seen Serena spanked like she was for a set and a half, errors or not. I still think Serena is the best player in the world, but I, like Serena realize Henin is #1 for a reason.

Looking forward already to the next match between the two :)

That was the same thought I got after watching the match for the first set and a half. Even at the early stages Serena was not playing that terribly, she was still hitting with plenty of pace and Henin was handling it quite well. You can see Henin is the best mover on tour and is only dwarfed athletetically only when Venus and Serena are at their top physical shape.

I've never been a big fan of Henin she just never grew into me, Clijsters was always my favorite Belgian player and after the hand incident and the way she handled the aussie open final I really lost respect for her. Nevertheless, I've always respected her professionalism and her commitmment to the game and her dedication to being so fit and always giving it her best shot every time she steps on court.

I only have greater respect for Justine after this match. She even acknowledged her game was not good enough on this particular day to defeat Serena's. Had Henin's serve been more consistent she would have made matters closer or even won the match.:worship:

SJW
Apr 3rd, 2007, 01:26 AM
If people are determined to look at it as Justine somehow contributed to Serena's comeback then they need to credit Serena for Justine even having matchpoints....because the first set was gift wrapped by Serena. :rolleyes:

That's basically what I thought too! Ok so Henin's level coincided with Serena's comeback. But saying that, Henin would have never have spanked Serena if Serena was playing half decent. :weirdo: But oh well. I prefer to look at the positive aspects for both players...Serena was amazing in her fight, and Henin played so well for almost two sets, and was very gracious and complimentary in defeat. Good job by both. :yeah:

switz
Apr 3rd, 2007, 01:32 AM
On court Henin still annoys the hell out of me but i certainly think Justine has matured as a person of the court and i've definitely warmed to her more of late because of that.

If only she let Patty beat her Qatar :mad:

!<blocparty>!
Apr 3rd, 2007, 01:37 AM
I've always respected her somewhat as a tennis player. She dedicates her life to the sport and is an incredibly hard worker. She's made the most out of what she's been given, unlike many other players, which is admirable.

Perhaps I'd respect her more on-court if she decided to cut the bullshit antics that just make me want to spew all over my TV set whenever she's playing.