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GoDominique
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:19 PM
What really impresses me (!) about Serena is that she's one of the very few female players who actually try to change their game when things are going wrong. Way too many players just keep playing their one-dimensional game although they probably realise that it won't be enough to win, and lose easily.
Serena tried to come in after her serve in the second set. Now volleying is not really her biggest strength (and she looked a bit ridiculous at some of these), but she knows that it doesn't really matter. It's all about breaking your opponent's rhythm and making her think. It worked, also because Serena did hit some beautiful volleys which certainly took some confidence off Justine.
She also tried desperately to keep the ball in and make Justine play that extra shot. Again this is not really Serena's favourite style and she struggled a lot with unclean shots and mishits but she realised that it was better than just to keep going for winners that don't materialise.

In this sense, Serena is one of the few true "tennis players" that we have on the WTA right now. It's sad though that we've seen all that so rarely in the past three years. Maybe the Tour would be in a better shape right now if we had continuously had the constant pressure that Serena puts on the rest of the players.

LeRoy.
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:19 PM
:worship:

:p

cellophane
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:21 PM
So why'd you delete your other post? :p

Marshmallow
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:23 PM
I don't come around here often, so i'm stunned by this post.

But, i agree, she is one of the smarter/wiser players around.

GoDominique
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:23 PM
So why'd you delete your other post? :p
No idea what post you are referring to.

Tennisaddict
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:25 PM
You´re right that´s why I always laugh at people who claim that Serena is only about power. She thinks on the court and can adjust to the situation.
It might win her the match or not but it won´t be one way traffic most of the time.

cellophane
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:26 PM
No idea what post you are referring to.

Ya know... the last one in the Serena hype thread. ;)

GoDominique
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:28 PM
Ya know... the last one in the Serena hype thread. ;)
Oh that one - well, I still think Volcana is full of it but I would probably stick to a single "LOL" now.

Williams Rulez
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:28 PM
Well said.. :) very often, pple dun give her credit for her ability to play defensively, and just do things to change up her game.

I believe Martina once said tt it was much tougher to play Serena than Venus because Serena changes the pace of the ball more often.

cellophane
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:32 PM
Oh that one - well, I still think Volcana is full of it but I would probably stick to a single "LOL" now.

I don't think you should have deleted it. Volcana's post was full of shit regardless of the eventual result, and that first set made him look ridiculous. I really don't know why people need to crap on other players to show off Serena.

GoDominique
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:35 PM
I don't think you should have deleted it. Volcana's post was full of shit regardless of the eventual result, and that first set made him look ridiculous. I really don't know why people need to crap on other players to show off Serena.
Very true. But - the timing of my post implied that it was done with the prospect of an ass-whooping in the back of my mind. Which is 100% correct.

I'll go back to it now and make a more thoughtful reply. :)

Orion
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:35 PM
That's the great thing about having her back at the top of her game. In the 2005/2006 matches she played, she wasn't willing to try and change things. She wasn't used to people outside the top 15 causing her enough trouble to switch things up in the first or second rounds of tournaments. Back then, it was cringe worthy tennis half the time. Now, she's taking every opponent seriously, and she's playing more varied tennis in the early rounds than she ever did in 2002/2003. It's fantastic to watch how much more mature she is now. I didn't expect, I will freely admit, last fall. The tournaround has been wonderful, and I'm very pleased to have her back on tour playing this way.

Apoleb
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:37 PM
I agree. Her power game was a bit off today, so she had to find something else and she did. Justine did give that second set a bit though, but still Serena dug in and made it sure for Justine that finishing the match will never be easy.

SJW
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:39 PM
Yup Serena has a plan B, C and even D.
Kicking balls up to Henin's back hand, serving and volleying, trying to construct points...she really doesn't get enough credit for her tennis brain.

GoDominique
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:41 PM
Well said.. :) very often, pple dun give her credit for her ability to play defensively, and just do things to change up her game.

I believe Martina once said tt it was much tougher to play Serena than Venus because Serena changes the pace of the ball more often.
Agreed. Venus is more one-dimensional, you pretty much know what you have to expect from her.
It's mainly because Venus' shots have so little spin that she can't really go for long rallies. Serena can if she needs to, because she has much more variety in her shots and she can change the amount of spin that she puts in.

Kunal
Mar 31st, 2007, 07:47 PM
just dont put other players down

bandabou
Mar 31st, 2007, 08:59 PM
Uhum...that's what makes me mad, when people call her just a basher. Today she changed up nicely...it wasn't always working, but she tried different things..coming to the net, hitting some drop-shots...those kick-serves to Justine's backhand. She thinks out there.

Midnite Surfer
Mar 31st, 2007, 09:01 PM
Love Serena the tennis player. But babygirl needs to work on that backhand slice.

:eek:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Apr 1st, 2007, 12:37 AM
What really impresses me (!) about Serena is that she's one of the very few female players who actually try to change their game when things are going wrong. Way too many players just keep playing their one-dimensional game although they probably realise that it won't be enough to win, and lose easily.
Serena tried to come in after her serve in the second set. Now volleying is not really her biggest strength (and she looked a bit ridiculous at some of these), but she knows that it doesn't really matter. It's all about breaking your opponent's rhythm and making her think. It worked, also because Serena did hit some beautiful volleys which certainly took some confidence off Justine.
She also tried desperately to keep the ball in and make Justine play that extra shot. Again this is not really Serena's favourite style and she struggled a lot with unclean shots and mishits but she realised that it was better than just to keep going for winners that don't materialise.

In this sense, Serena is one of the few true "tennis players" that we have on the WTA right now. It's sad though that we've seen all that so rarely in the past three years. Maybe the Tour would be in a better shape right now if we had continuously had the constant pressure that Serena puts on the rest of the players.

*death*

Tenis Srbija
Apr 1st, 2007, 12:39 AM
Uhmmm....whaaaaaaaat? :spit:

All players are trying to change theirs game when losing :smash:

blumaroo
Apr 1st, 2007, 12:40 AM
Uhmmm....whaaaaaaaat? :spit:

All players are trying to change theirs game when losing :smash:

No they're not.

Tenis Srbija
Apr 1st, 2007, 12:42 AM
Ok...sorry, my bad. 90 percent of players with one unce of brain, ARE...

eugreene2
Apr 1st, 2007, 12:45 AM
Great Thread - although, I think it was the media that kept tellling us that Serena has no B, C or D game. People like Chrissy Evert (so glad we don't have to hear her commentating anymore). Serena had even a B & C game in her semi against Sharapova in the '05 Aussie.

Venus used to have a plan B. I remember her touch & finesse against Davenport in the 2000 Wimbledon final when most commentators thought Lindsay would repeat but Venus used drop shots & other change-ups that day.

But Yes, it seems that Serena has worked on other aspects of her game so that she can pull something out of the bag no matter the opponent. I hate her volleys but I appreciated the effort today. It was smart & gave her a chance to stay around until she could figure things out. A CHAMPION!!!

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 1st, 2007, 01:07 AM
Agreed. Venus is more one-dimensional, you pretty much know what you have to expect from her.
It's mainly because Venus' shots have so little spin that she can't really go for long rallies. Serena can if she needs to, because she has much more variety in her shots and she can change the amount of spin that she puts in.

Good initial post, but this one thoroughly misses the mark.

1. Venus, AT HER BEST, is one of the best defensive players out there. In fact, she was playing good "plan B" defense BEFORE Serena ever began her '02 domination. You should go back and look. It's very clear.

2. Venus shots typically have MORE topspin than Serena's. Vee is by nature, a much more conservative player, she rallys more often and favors getting into defensive track meets in which points are ended by her unique shot making ability.

3. Serena's "more variety" is derived from superior technique to Venus. However, when Vee is at her best, she is quite capable of a variety of shots. Venus actually has MORE variety and is BETTER at net than Serena.

Anyway, I say all this because now- as is often the case when Serena works her magic- people tend to want to forget what a special and uniquely gifted player Venus is.

It is not only my hope but also my belief that Venus will, no doubt, end up shocking people with a sustained level of stellar play at some stretch during this year. She is cut from the same cloth as Serena, perhaps not destined for the same level of greatness- only the Lord knows that- but certainly a destiny that is uniquely greater than it already is.

DavidEllul
Apr 1st, 2007, 01:09 AM
She definitely is way smarter a player than her sis, she has tactics and knows to change her way when things go wrong, rather than just screaming and hitting the ball harder and harder.

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:20 AM
:speakles: or could it be you are choking on a piece of humble pie? :confused:

GoDominique
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:26 AM
:speakles: or could it be you are choking on a piece of humble pie? :confused:
I don't owe anyone anything on this board, Cam. I just post what I want to post. :)

So why don't you just take this at face value for once and shut the hell up?

moby
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:29 AM
I know where Serena got her tennis smarts from.

When she was started out in tennis, she had to play Venus often. At that time, she was obviously not Venus' equal in strength, and had to play a lot of defence. I remember Venus referring to the young Serena as a retriever who moonballed.

Dunlop1
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:33 AM
I was impressed by Serena's willingness to 'push' and play ugly tennis just to keep the damn ball in play and make Justine hit another shot. Then the serve and volley points came.
Then the drop shots after the serve :eek: :drool:

Sharapova NEEDS to watch Serena to see how to 'ameliorate' her game ;)

GoDominique
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:39 AM
Good initial post, but this one thoroughly misses the mark.

1. Venus, AT HER BEST, is one of the best defensive players out there. In fact, she was playing good "plan B" defense BEFORE Serena ever began her '02 domination. You should go back and look. It's very clear.

2. Venus shots typically have MORE topspin than Serena's. Vee is by nature, a much more conservative player, she rallys more often and favors getting into defensive track meets in which points are ended by her unique shot making ability.

3. Serena's "more variety" is derived from superior technique to Venus. However, when Vee is at her best, she is quite capable of a variety of shots. Venus actually has MORE variety and is BETTER at net than Serena.

Anyway, I say all this because now- as is often the case when Serena works her magic- people tend to want to forget what a special and uniquely gifted player Venus is.

It is not only my hope but also my belief that Venus will, no doubt, end up shocking people with a sustained level of stellar play at some stretch during this year. She is cut from the same cloth as Serena, perhaps not destined for the same level of greatness- only the Lord knows that- but certainly a destiny that is uniquely greater than it already is.
I think you are quite missing the mark here:

1. Defense is not = Plan B. Venus is fast so of course she has good defense. But that's just part of her game, not a tactic that she suddenly decides to use more during a match.

2. I am actually not sure who has more topspin. Serena though can put any amount of spin that she likes on her shots. She can hit extremely short angles, for example. Venus can't.

3. LOL. Serena has far more variety than Venus. I have seen Serena hit slices on backhand AND forehand, cute volleys, dropshots, all kinds of serves, etc.
Also, when is Venus ever at her best?

Obviously your Venus fanship is clouding your judgment.

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:40 AM
I know where Serena got her tennis smarts from.

When she was started out in tennis, she had to play Venus often. At that time, she was obviously not Venus' equal in strength, and had to play a lot of defence. I remember Venus referring to the young Serena as a retriever who moonballed.

Exactly!

Serena's game EVOLVED from playing Venus. She would have had to acquire excellent defensive skills to keep from getting blown off the court by big sis', but ultimately she'd need to develop immense, high risk offensive skills in order to win in a manner that was held in respect by clan Williams and THAT would mean NO PUSHING! In fact, Richard has said one of the reasons he pulled his girls from playing the juniors is because, back then that was the brand of ball being played at the junior level.

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:42 AM
I don't owe anyone anything on this board, Cam. I just post what I want to post. :)

So why don't you just take this at face value for once and shut the hell up?


Ok...just this once...:mad:

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:50 AM
I think you are quite missing the mark here:

1. Defense is not = Plan B. Venus is fast so of course she has good defense. But that's just part of her game, not a tactic that she suddenly decides to use more during a match.

2. I am actually not sure who has more topspin. Serena though can put any amount of spin that she likes on her shots. She can hit extremely short angles, for example. Venus can't.

3. LOL. Serena has far more variety than Venus. I have seen Serena hit slices on backhand AND forehand, cute volleys, dropshots, all kinds of serves, etc.
Also, when is Venus ever at her best?

Obviously your Venus fanship is clouding your judgment.

I think you ought to go back and read.

3. I AGREED serena had more variety and went as far as to say why- EXCEPT at net, where Vee has more variety and ability by most accounts. I think it is YOU who is letting your LACK of objectivity cloud your judgement AND, apparently, your reading comprehension. ;)

2. If you "don't know" who hits with more top spin as you say, you shouldn't have initially made the comment you did. Again, that's why you missed the mark.

1. And finally, How old are you? Have you been watching tennis long?

You need to go back and check your history. Vee would OFTEN (circa 2000, 2001 when she was at her best :rolleyes: hard to believe anybody that follows tennis woudn't know that), when struggling to hit out, go into a much more defensive (arguably even pushing) mode. THAT in absence of being able to hit out IS a "Plan B." Serena imployed it even today.

bobcat
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:56 AM
As I was watching the finals I also came to a similar conclusion. The match was a good example of two actual tennis players rather than simply two ball strikers, which is more often the case.

eugreene2
Apr 1st, 2007, 03:40 AM
I think you ought to go back and read.

3. I AGREED serena had more variety and went as far as to say why- EXCEPT at net, where Vee has more variety and ability by most accounts. I think it is YOU who is letting your LACK of objectivity cloud your judgement AND, apparently, your reading comprehension. ;)

2. If you "don't know" who hits with more top spin as you say, you shouldn't have initially made the comment you did. Again, that's why you missed the mark.

1. And finally, How old are you? Have you been watching tennis long?

You need to go back and check your history. Vee would OFTEN (circa 2000, 2001 when she was at her best :rolleyes: hard to believe anybody that follows tennis woudn't know that), when struggling to hit out, go into a much more defensive (arguably even pushing) mode. THAT in absence of being able to hit out IS a "Plan B." Serena imployed it even today.

Doublefist, I hear what you're saying and agree to an extent. I even pointed out the example from the Wimby 2000 final. YET, Venus has never completely changed her style of play as Serena did today when things weren't going well. Serena deserves all credit for basically abandoning ship & trying something new.

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 1st, 2007, 04:15 AM
I think the only thing I disagree with here is where people say Serena has an average net game....today Serena's game was entirely off....so using today to say anything about her net game won't bring accurate results....when she's playing her best check her net game then...today she wasn't hitting the ball well so her approach shots were lackluster against someone like JH

serenafann
Apr 1st, 2007, 04:18 AM
You´re right that´s why I always laugh at people who claim that Serena is only about power. She thinks on the court and can adjust to the situation.
It might win her the match or not but it won´t be one way traffic most of the time.

I agree.

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 1st, 2007, 06:42 AM
She's one of the best thinkers out there. She really doesn't get enough credit for her ability to think her way out of trouble out there, becuase she has so many weapons, but she's really one of the best thinkers on court.

Williams Rulez
Apr 1st, 2007, 07:10 AM
I think you ought to go back and read.

3. I AGREED serena had more variety and went as far as to say why- EXCEPT at net, where Vee has more variety and ability by most accounts. I think it is YOU who is letting your LACK of objectivity cloud your judgement AND, apparently, your reading comprehension. ;)

2. If you "don't know" who hits with more top spin as you say, you shouldn't have initially made the comment you did. Again, that's why you missed the mark.

1. And finally, How old are you? Have you been watching tennis long?

You need to go back and check your history. Vee would OFTEN (circa 2000, 2001 when she was at her best :rolleyes: hard to believe anybody that follows tennis woudn't know that), when struggling to hit out, go into a much more defensive (arguably even pushing) mode. THAT in absence of being able to hit out IS a "Plan B." Serena imployed it even today.

well, i've to say tt Venus does volley better than Serena, and is faster too.. but in terms of variety,in terms of serve, or off the ground, she is no where as good as Serena. Serena has the ability to change up her groundies, adding more spin, hitting those short angles, or just blasting the ball, whereas Venus does tend to hit a more similar ball each time.

that said, i think we are talking about how Serena changes her game plan when she is losing, for example, just taking some pace off the ball and keeping it in, and even trying serve and volley etc.

Venus used to do tt.. i remember against Jennifer at this very same tournament, in the finals, down match points, she started hitting dropshots and going to the net to finish off the points.. she did different things, keeping jennifer on her toes and confused.. that is what venus is capable of doing, but unfortunately, she doesn't seem to be doing much of such things anymore...

another example was in the finals of Amelia Island, down 1-4 in the 2nd against Justine, she started moonballing and hitting very paceless and loopy shots at Justine, changing the pace, and throwing Justine off.. that is what I would call changing your game plan..

so basically, its not that Venus isn't capable of it, just that, she hasn't been doing it anymore. i have no idea why..

servenrichie
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:15 PM
back-handed compliment meant to diss the other sister. Wouldnt expect anything else from GODOM:devil:
Venus had lots of plan when she was good. She wasnt hitting people off the court. She obviously stagnated in the last 5 years, shes playing like someboby with a huge blockage.
I remember Justine killing in Amelia Island finals some years. She was 6&1 and 4&1 behind and suddenly changed her strategy. She started moonballing, putting a lot of spins on her game and eventually took the title home. Obviously loosing 4 GS finals against her sister (I said sister, because she wouldnt have lost 4 straight GS finals to any other tennis player on this planet at that time) took its toll on her mental game and the result is this average player we are seeing today. I dont know, if she will rise again, but I am hoping she does, if only to set the bars higher:mad:

serenafan08
Apr 1st, 2007, 02:20 PM
Serena's ability to change it up separates her from the other power players. Her volleys are pretty good, and she can step back and play defense if she has to. It's great to see her use those tactics against a great player like Justine. I hope they have more battles this year, and I'm sure they will.