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View Full Version : How many players do you think believe that they are more talented than Serena?


fufuqifuqishahah
Mar 18th, 2007, 10:43 PM
if any... who do you think believes they could beat serena if they played their best?

suffer well
Mar 18th, 2007, 10:50 PM
On a given day any player could beat any player when playing her best....just as long as when Serena's playing, most of those who are playing their best....that Serena's playing at 50-60% of her best - for 60% of the rest....and 70-80% of her potential for the others....or else they would lose....except for Jidkova....

jrm
Mar 18th, 2007, 10:50 PM
Can we talk about talents nowadays where players just want to overhit each other :shrug:

Serena is raw player, no real touch or elegancy in her game

there are only few players out there whom i would call talented

But said it before - if she plays like she can no one can touch her!

pengluv
Mar 18th, 2007, 10:52 PM
umm serena has touch too... did u see her drop volleys... i think ppl hate the fact that serena uses sheer power and forget she has the simple touches as well

venus_rulez
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:03 PM
Honestly, I think it's hard to say. Venus at her best certainly has the best shot at it because her game at full flight is just as intimidating as Serena's with perhaps a tiny tiny bit better court coverage and better play at the net. But it's all speculation really because I don't think Venus and Serena have ever played their best against each other for any extended period of time. When Venus' dominated the rivalry, Serena just couldn't bring it mentally against her big sis, and then when Serena dominated the rivalry Venus could only see her sister and not an opponent. I think they've come close twice. The '03 Aussie Open Final was pretty good and I think the '05 Miami Quarter (the second set anyway) was pretty good stuff too. Being realistic, I think if Venus and Serena ever managed to play their absolute best against each other, it would truly depend on the day who would walk away with the victory. On a final note, I wonder what Big Papa Richard would say about a match up like that. he did say that Serena would end up being the better play, but he also said that no one, including Serena, could touch Venus when she decides she's coming to play. Who knows, but here's to more all Williams finals!

cellophane
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:05 PM
Oh god... enough already.

suffer well
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:06 PM
Oh god... enough already.

Fine....I'll go watch a movie....happy now?

Apoleb
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:12 PM
Wait a minute. Are we supposed to argue about which player thinks that she is more talented than Serena?

Seriously, wtaworld keeps outdoing itself.

cellophane
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:18 PM
Wait a minute. Are we suppose to argue about which player thinks that she is more talented than Serena?

Seriously, wtaworld keeps outdoing itself.

I think some posters should consider that there is a slight possibility that there are players out there who don't spend their life in constant thoughts about Serena. :tape:

Frode
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:18 PM
:help: :weirdo: :yawn: :smash: :banghead: :unsure: :silly: :speakles:

Is there not a Serena forum around here somewhere:confused:

supergrunt
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:23 PM
I think that all the players on the wta know that if Serena is playing well, they are not going to win. And to jrm, Serena is more than just hard hitting. She mixes up her paces and spins, she hits beautiful angles, her movement and defense are amazing, and her volleys are are some of the best. In addition to that, it takes alot of talent to hit the ball hard and hit winners. If everyone could do it, then we would all be tennis pros. Martina can't do it and she is an amazing player. :shrug:

Volcana
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:37 PM
if any... who do you think believes they could beat serena if they played their best?Those are two totally different questions. The number who think they could beat Serena if they played their best is probably pretty long. As in more than ten. The number who think they're more talented is likely no more than two or three, if that. Henin probably believes it. Maybe Mauresmo, maybe Venus.

pengluv
Mar 18th, 2007, 11:51 PM
nah most players are all talk when they say they think they can beat serena.. cough petrova cough... lol i remember kim being asked if she can win the usopen... n she replied ummm how is serena doing

bawang
Mar 19th, 2007, 12:00 AM
Ooohhhh... Enough with these questions already.
I believe I can beat Serena.
Assuming that she would accept my challenge for a ballet match of course.

John.
Mar 19th, 2007, 12:02 AM
Henin would think she is more talented than Serena.

cellophane
Mar 19th, 2007, 12:04 AM
Ooohhhh... Enough with these questions already.
I believe I can beat Serena.
Assuming that she would accept my challenge for a ballet match of course.

Are you ready for the challenge?

http://www.tennis.info/images/WTAChamps4/1Wed/Williams2919.jpg

tennisbum79
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:14 AM
Can we talk about talents nowadays where players just want to overhit each other :shrug:

Serena is raw player, no real touch or elegancy in her game

there are only few players out there whom i would call talented

But said it before - if she plays like she can no one can touch her!

I have the feeling you've held that opinion about Serena. for a long time
And nothing she does will ever change your mind.

It is the kind of put down and disrespect minority athlete have to
deal with when they enter and excel in sports traditionaly dominated by
whites.

It was said of the first generation of black quarterbacks in American football.
It was said of Tiger Woods in golf.

Dan23
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:23 AM
How would anyone know what the other players think?

there are only few players out there whom i would call talentedYoure a had man then :p
It takes a vast amount of talent to get anywhere at the highest level of tennis but some are more gifted than others.

StarDuvallGrant
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:43 AM
Are you ready for the challenge?

http://www.tennis.info/images/WTAChamps4/1Wed/Williams2919.jpg

This reminded me more of a cheerleader. It was cute.

spencercarlos
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:58 AM
Honestly, I think it's hard to say. Venus at her best certainly has the best shot at it because her game at full flight is just as intimidating as Serena's with perhaps a tiny tiny bit better court coverage and better play at the net. But it's all speculation really because I don't think Venus and Serena have ever played their best against each other for any extended period of time. When Venus' dominated the rivalry, Serena just couldn't bring it mentally against her big sis, and then when Serena dominated the rivalry Venus could only see her sister and not an opponent. I think they've come close twice. The '03 Aussie Open Final was pretty good and I think the '05 Miami Quarter (the second set anyway) was pretty good stuff too. Being realistic, I think if Venus and Serena ever managed to play their absolute best against each other, it would truly depend on the day who would walk away with the victory. On a final note, I wonder what Big Papa Richard would say about a match up like that. he did say that Serena would end up being the better play, but he also said that no one, including Serena, could touch Venus when she decides she's coming to play. Who knows, but here's to more all Williams finals!
Sorry but Venus´s best does not have a great forehand, when attacked off a very hard shot (which is not easy to do) she falters time after time.
Serena´s best does not have any holes or any safe place to hit in.
Anyway Serena´s talent is about her pace of her strokes and of course her angles and placements, but i still don´t consider her a super talented player IMO, she still does not know how to defend the net, and she does not have a great touch either, she is not a complete player as many people think. Its scary because she has areas to improve on.

Prep_boii
Mar 19th, 2007, 02:02 AM
I think Venus and Henin all have good shots at beating Serena at her best if they play there bests.

Someone who hasnt been mentioned is Jennifer Capriati. I think realistically shes the one who would have the best shot at beating Serena, She has done it more than any other player on tour, so to me, its Jennifer clearly. I think Jennifer even has said that she feels shes just as good. And serena has mentioned how tough Jennifer plays against her.

Ntour
Mar 19th, 2007, 03:27 AM
Henin would think she is more talented than Serena.

and she would be right to think that!

scoobsuk
Mar 19th, 2007, 03:29 AM
I don't know the answer to the thread title question.

I do know that very few players believe in their own talent more than Serena - if any at all. It's been a major source of her success.

serenafann
Mar 19th, 2007, 03:35 AM
None,if they are smart.There is Nothing Serena can't do on the tennis court something she has proven time and time again on every surface something not many can say.she is one of the greats.

go hingis
Mar 19th, 2007, 03:50 AM
I'm sure Martina Hingis thinks she has more talent just not as much power.

darrinbaker00
Mar 19th, 2007, 04:20 AM
I'm sure Martina Hingis thinks she has more talent just not as much power.
That's like a sprinter saying, "I think I'm more talented than Marion Jones, but I'm just not as fast." :lol:

MrSerenaWilliams
Mar 19th, 2007, 04:23 AM
:lol:

MyskinaManiac
Mar 19th, 2007, 04:57 AM
That's like a sprinter saying, "I think I'm more talented than Marion Jones, but I'm just not as fast." :lol:

I wouldn't use Marion Jones as your example as we all know what kind of trouble she's been caught up in... or are you subtly suggesting something else?

I totally agree that Martina is far more talented than Serena. You only have to look at the groundstroke production of the two players to see how fluid Martina's are compared to the bashing of Serena... bashing does not take talent it takes many hours in the gym.

Martina's touch is sublime, her volleying technique is unmatched (and just because she doesn't volley as much as say Amelie, doesn't mean she isn't better) her court craft is unrivaled, her over-all knowledge of the game is tremendous and her anticipation is legendary. All of which cannot be taught, rather one has to have a certain talent for.

What Serena does have is brute power. However, brute power can be obtained by anybody with the time or the will I feel... which is why I'd place Martina's talent of the game above Serena's.

Also, I'd doubt any player would step out on the court thinking that Serena was more talented than them... I mean, they might as well not show up... they've psychologically lost the battle before it's even begun. So in essence this thread is just another "how great is Serena thread"... don't get me wrong, she's great... one of the best, but how about you talk about Serena like as much as she plays.

serena_fan
Mar 19th, 2007, 08:15 AM
[QUOTE=supergrunt;10314273]I think that all the players on the wta know that if Serena is playing well, they are not going to win. And to jrm, Serena is more than just hard hitting. She mixes up her paces and spins, she hits beautiful angles, her movement and defense are amazing, and her volleys are are some of the best. In addition to that, it takes alot of talent to hit the ball hard and hit winners. If everyone could do it, then we would all be tennis pros. Martina can't do it and she is an amazing player.

serena_fan
Mar 19th, 2007, 08:16 AM
hahaha

bandabou
Mar 19th, 2007, 09:10 AM
Hmmm...I see the "Serena is just a power player and nothing else really"- gimmick is still up. Nice.

kiwifan
Mar 19th, 2007, 09:15 AM
I think 2 players honestly believe they're better than "Peak Serena" when they play they're best...

...Venus and Chucky...

...unfortunately, I think they're both wrong. :lol:

Hingie
Mar 19th, 2007, 09:16 AM
I wouldn't use Marion Jones as your example as we all know what kind of trouble she's been caught up in... or are you subtly suggesting something else?

I totally agree that Martina is far more talented than Serena. You only have to look at the groundstroke production of the two players to see how fluid Martina's are compared to the bashing of Serena... bashing does not take talent it takes many hours in the gym.

Martina's touch is sublime, her volleying technique is unmatched (and just because she doesn't volley as much as say Amelie, doesn't mean she isn't better) her court craft is unrivaled, her over-all knowledge of the game is tremendous and her anticipation is legendary. All of which cannot be taught, rather one has to have a certain talent for.

What Serena does have is brute power. However, brute power can be obtained by anybody with the time or the will I feel... which is why I'd place Martina's talent of the game above Serena's.

Also, I'd doubt any player would step out on the court thinking that Serena was more talented than them... I mean, they might as well not show up... they've psychologically lost the battle before it's even begun. So in essence this thread is just another "how great is Serena thread"... don't get me wrong, she's great... one of the best, but how about you talk about Serena like as much as she plays.

Brace yourself for the bad reps.

As much as i agree with most of what you have said, i once took comfort knowing Marti possesses this unmatched talent... but what good is it if you can't win with it?

bandabou
Mar 19th, 2007, 09:38 AM
brute power, brute power, brute power..well as long as she keeps bagging a major every year...when was martina's last major despite all the touch and volleys and court-smarts and blah blah?

Chrissie-fan
Mar 19th, 2007, 09:39 AM
if any... who do you think believes they could beat serena if they played their best?
Depends on what you mean by "more talented." If it means having more variation to their games, "better hands" or whatever there probably are several of them that think that they are more talented (Hingis, Henin, Mauresmo). But if it means having the tools to actually beat a Serena Williams when she's anywhere near her best it's quite a different story IMO. Besides, Serena IS talented. The fact that she's that successful a "power player" means that she is one of (if not THE) most talented player out there among the large group with that type of play.

acetoace
Mar 19th, 2007, 12:56 PM
I don't think it matters how many players believe they are more talented than Serena. Talent & Belief are 2 different things.

A player may have the belief but may lack the supreme talent to execute on the court and vice-versa.

This is where Serena is head & shoulders above the rest currently in the WTA. She has both supreme talent and supreme belief in her ability to execute on the court as manifested by her accomplishments thus far.

I think it does come down to 'execution on the court'. Look at it this way, what is talent and self-belief if both qualities cannot be manifested on the tennis court where it matters most?

To my mind, talent & self-belief can only be measured by a player's result on the tennis court. Failing that, the supposed self-belief and talent is nothing more than mere speculation.

Bottomline, all players are talented IMHO but only few are bound to stand out among their peers in every era. Reason why there are not many Steffi, Navratilova, Selles, Hingis (in her prime), Serena, Venus and Henin.

Any of the aforementioned players were and have been beaten at different times in their respective careers by lesser players but that does not mean that those lesser players have what it takes to out-perform the better talented and more superior players on a regular basis.

Just my 10cents........

PS: When I talk of Hingis, I'm referring to her era and not to the present Hingis. She is still one of the greatest ever IMO however, I think her time was then eventhough she is still a brilliant player.

rjd1111
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:15 PM
I have the feeling you've held that opinion about Serena. for a long time
And nothing she does will ever change your mind.

It is the kind of put down and disrespect minority athlete have to
deal with when they enter and excel in sports traditionaly dominated by
whites.

It was said of the first generation of black quarterbacks in American football.
It was said of Tiger Woods in golf.


You are right. There is no way to win all those GS's Serena has won
if you are a Raw player with no touch. Or as less subtle detractors
call her a " Mindless Ball Basher "

rjd1111
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:21 PM
Sorry but Venus´s best does not have a great forehand, when attacked off a very hard shot (which is not easy to do) she falters time after time.
Serena´s best does not have any holes or any safe place to hit in.
Anyway Serena´s talent is about her pace of her strokes and of course her angles and placements, but i still don´t consider her a super talented player IMO, she still does not know how to defend the net, and she does not have a great touch either, she is not a complete player as many people think. Its scary because she has areas to improve on.



Who, pray tell would you call a super talented player? Who is a more
complete player with great touch and can defend the net.

drummer girl
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:24 PM
Both Henin and Hingis are more naturally talented players who can beat Serena at her best, when they're playing there best. Venus can to, but i believe that Serena is the more talented of the two.

Serena is a better all round athlete then Martina and Venus. Henin's the only one i can see consistently beating Serena, unless Marti gets some anger into her lol.

But just because your talented doesn't mean you capitalise. ie: Hantuchova, Schnyder, etc...

drummer girl
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:25 PM
Who, pray tell would you call a super talented player? Who is a more
complete player with great touch and can defend the net.

Martina hands down, is (yes imo) the most talented player to have played the game, smart beyond belief (though not lately :tape:), quick, strikes the ball amazingly, can pull any shot and play it perfectly at any time, can diffuse any attack, has possibly the best net game when uses it, and can hold her own and more at the base line, has numerous game plans, and doesn't need to make noises to distract other players :lol:.
But that doesn't mean that Serena cant defend the net though or has good touch. She's up there too, but in my opinion Martina in terms of tennis is a super talented player. Henin is another player who would come close to matching her.

Serena though an awesome tennis player, is about the power and intimidation factors. She is not as smart as technically brilliant and as allround as Martina.

But be honest, everyones different faves are apparently the greatest, it depends on what you look for in a player.

athake
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:43 PM
i think 3 of all can think in believing that i think they are more talented...

still thinking...

lolas
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:46 PM
Monique Viele had talent as well :)

bandabou
Mar 19th, 2007, 01:59 PM
thus all about power and intimidation...et voila 8 majors. ok...wow. impressive.

KBdoubleu
Mar 19th, 2007, 02:02 PM
I would come to think that Venus, Sharapova, and Henin all believe that they are more talented than Serena. Their belief factor, fighting ability, and sheer talent is why between the four of them they have 20 Grand Slam singles titles.

dreamgoddess099
Mar 19th, 2007, 02:24 PM
I'm sure all players THINK they are more talented than Serena, but at the end of the day, she is the one leading this generation in slam titles. And sorry, but that "she just hits the ball hard" thing does not fly and is a very tired excuse for why she wins. It takes a lot more talent to hit the ball hard and with control than to hit it softly. You're just fooling yourself if you think fine touch and elegant movement are more effective than hitting hard accurate shots. As evident by the 85% of the tour who prefer to play an aggressive game. If hitting hard accurate shots were just about raw power, then surely any strong person could just pick up a racket and start winning slams right away. They can't. Do you realize how absolutely ignorant it is to totally ignore the skill evolved in having hand eye coordination, anticipation, and the timing it takes to be able to hit the ball hard and keep it in the court?

dreamgoddess099
Mar 19th, 2007, 02:51 PM
What Serena does have is brute power. However, brute power can be obtained by anybody with the time or the will I feel... which is why I'd place Martina's talent of the game above Serena's.


:haha: This statement is so idiotic on so many levels. First of all "brute" power can not be obtained by anybody, which is why many women players (Martina) continue to lack it even though they acknowledge the benefits of having it. Secondly, since you think brute power can be obtained by anybody with time and will, that means you think Martina doesn't have the time nor will to win 8 slams like Serena? Which is why I'd place Serena's talent ahead of Martina's, she has what it takes to win and she has the good sense to uses it.

cellophane
Mar 19th, 2007, 02:54 PM
:haha: This statement is so idiotic on so many levels. First of all "brute" power can not be obtained by anybody, which is why many women players (Martina) continue to lack it even though they acknowledge the benefits of having it. Secondly, since you think brute power can be obtained by anybody with time and will, that means you think Martina doesn't have the time nor will to win 8 slams like Serena? Which is why I'd place Serena's talent ahead of Martina's, she has what it takes to win and she has the good sense to uses it.

That's not entirely true. Power can be gained (like with Justine)... Martina could gain power if she wanted... she just doesn't want to get it either because she is lazy or because it's not her game.

bandabou
Mar 19th, 2007, 03:30 PM
if it's just power...then why doesn't our martina combine the brain with the power to win even more? Or are people saying that power players can't be smart?

M2k
Mar 19th, 2007, 03:37 PM
who thought they were more talented than Serena?

Jennifer :devil: or Henin :devil:

cellophane
Mar 19th, 2007, 04:02 PM
if it's just power...then why doesn't our martina combine the brain with the power to win even more? Or are people saying that power players can't be smart?

I have no clue... she came up with some excuses in her last interview, but it wasn't very convincing. Maybe she doesn't need it. At this point she doesn't even have her game at the optimum level, so she should at least get her game sorted out.

go hingis
Mar 20th, 2007, 12:50 AM
That's like a sprinter saying, "I think I'm more talented than Marion Jones, but I'm just not as fast." :lol:

UHHHM NO, Using a sport that basically relies on you having speed compared to a sport that has different succesful styles is plain stupid. The only way we judge sprinters is by their speed that's not the case with tennis. A tennis coach wouldn't teach you to just hit the ball hard he would teach you technique.

darrinbaker00
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:14 AM
UHHHM NO, Using a sport that basically relies on you having speed compared to a sport that has different succesful styles is plain stupid. The only way we judge sprinters is by their speed that's not the case with tennis. A tennis coach wouldn't teach you to just hit the ball hard he would teach you technique.
Of all people on this board, YOU should know that going for the cheap laugh is my M.O. ;)

Chrissie-fan
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:20 AM
if it's just power...then why doesn't our martina combine the brain with the power to win even more? Or are people saying that power players can't be smart?
Well, if it was only a matter of choice all the players would have the talents of Martina and Serena combined, but since every player is born with a different body, personality and skills they all have to play in the manner that nature allows them to.

Apoleb
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:22 AM
Please. It takes loads of talent to hit powerfully and accurately. Not everyone can be a Maria, a Lindsay or a Serena. Serena's serve is a magnificent shot, just pretty on its own, and it's not like everyone can have a serve like that if they train for x years or something.

trufanjay
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:23 AM
Serena's game is more than just power. That is raw talent. I don't care how people want to put it. Players like Martina can obtain power but to a certain extent. Players like Venus, Serena and Lindsay are just naturally more powerful than the rest of the ladies.
Some people have the idea that only a game like Justine's or Martina's is an example of talent. Everyone on the tour has talent. Some more than others. If Serena didn't have talent then she would not be an eight time grand slam champion. Power without talent and skill is useless.

Does anyone think they have more talent than Serena? I don't know. Serena is without a doubt one of the most talented female tennis players in the world. Regardless of what people's interpretation of what tennis talent is I think most people will agree that Serena's abilities are superior to any other woman on the tour.

Thkmra
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:26 AM
I have the feeling you've held that opinion about Serena. for a long time
And nothing she does will ever change your mind.

It is the kind of put down and disrespect minority athlete have to
deal with when they enter and excel in sports traditionaly dominated by
whites.

It was said of the first generation of black quarterbacks in American football.
It was said of Tiger Woods in golf.
Wow!!!!:worship: :worship: :worship: Some of us don't deserve to behold your wisdom:hearts: :hearts:

Thkmra
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:30 AM
Sorry but Venus´s best does not have a great forehand, when attacked off a very hard shot (which is not easy to do) she falters time after time.
Serena´s best does not have any holes or any safe place to hit in.
Anyway Serena´s talent is about her pace of her strokes and of course her angles and placements, but i still don´t consider her a super talented player IMO, she still does not know how to defend the net, and she does not have a great touch either, she is not a complete player as many people think. Its scary because she has areas to improve on.

:eek: Well for once you and I agree on something..well,for the most part:lol:

But even as much as Serena can still improve on things,she still Right Now is the most Complete player since Graf!

Dementieva Guts
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:41 AM
Serena is one of the rare great all around player out there.

Some can slap her pretty hard, depending on the surface.

IF BOTH PLAYERS SHOW GAME A1

HardCourts: NO ONE
Clay: Henin, Hingis, Dementieva
Grass: NO ONE

Nevermind to those who qualify Serena as a basher. She shows variety, guts, controlled power, athletism and fitness. She's the most complete athlete on tour

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:44 AM
Serena is obviously talented. DUH.

MyskinaManiac
Mar 20th, 2007, 02:56 AM
Serena is one of the rare great all around player out there.

Some can slap her pretty hard, depending on the surface.

IF BOTH PLAYERS SHOW GAME A1

HardCourts: NO ONE
Clay: Henin, Hingis, Dementieva
Grass: NO ONE

Nevermind to those who qualify Serena as a basher. She shows variety, guts, controlled power, athletism and fitness. She's the most complete athlete on tour

Pffft! Elena is not a class clay-courter... I'd give her more of a chance of beating Serena on hard. Hingis and Henin on the otherhand have been raised to champion at RG... although Martina hasn't, she presently still has the game to.

Dementieva Guts
Mar 20th, 2007, 03:16 AM
Pffft! Elena is not a class clay-courter... I'd give her more of a chance of beating Serena on hard. Hingis and Henin on the otherhand have been raised to champion at RG... although Martina hasn't, she presently still has the game to.

You could be right. But I will always think that Dementieva has a game suited for clay; eventhough she didn't have tremendous fancy results SO FAR. She bitched enough on HardCourts but can't believe slapping serena square YET.

Great Stuff with your post; You definitely know tennis, unlike many others.:worship:

drummer girl
Mar 20th, 2007, 11:50 AM
thus all about power and intimidation...et voila 8 majors. ok...wow. impressive.

the difference between her and other players at or above her level of talent (ie: Martina), is her intimidation and power. thats not saying the win is all because of that, yeah you need to be able to play, but it makes the difference.

when people go on court they're scared shitless of her, they dont play their best tennis because they cant. that is a great asset to have and one of the reasons she does have 8 slams. If Serena wasn't as daunting a prospect as she is she would be beaten far more. Why, because its a rare thing to see Serena play her best.

i still think she does not have nearly the amount of natural talent for tennis that Martina or Justine has.

dreamgoddess099
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:34 PM
the difference between her and other players at or above her level of talent (ie: Martina), is her intimidation and power. thats not saying the win is all because of that, yeah you need to be able to play, but it makes the difference.

when people go on court they're scared shitless of her, they dont play their best tennis because they cant.
That's bullshit. Any intimidation players have of Serena is from her ability and reputation as a great champion. Martina would have the same intimidation factor if she had 8 slams too. I mean it's not like players come off the court saying they thought Serena was going to jump over the net and attack them. In fact, Serena is very social and has many friends on tour aswell as many others who like her personality.

that is a great asset to have and one of the reasons she does have 8 slams. If Serena wasn't as daunting a prospect as she is she would be beaten far more. Why, because its a rare thing to see Serena play her best.
So Serena should only be credited for winning if her opponent isn't intimidated by her? And just how do you intend on knowing if they were or weren't? Most already say they aren't afraid or intimidated by Serena, so who's word should we take, yours or theirs? And does the same go for every other player who's opponent is intimidated by them being higher ranked or more experienced? I mean, why should an opponents intimidation only count when Serena is involved?

i still think she does not have nearly the amount of natural talent for tennis that Martina or Justine has.

Well obviously "natural talent" isn't all that or else people who supposedly have less talent wouldn't have more slams than you.

bandabou
Mar 20th, 2007, 01:59 PM
Well, if it was only a matter of choice all the players would have the talents of Martina and Serena combined, but since every player is born with a different body, personality and skills they all have to play in the manner that nature allows them to.

in the manner that nature allows them. hmmm...what's one to make of this quote?

bandabou
Mar 20th, 2007, 02:02 PM
the difference between her and other players at or above her level of talent (ie: Martina), is her intimidation and power. thats not saying the win is all because of that, yeah you need to be able to play, but it makes the difference.

when people go on court they're scared shitless of her, they dont play their best tennis because they cant. that is a great asset to have and one of the reasons she does have 8 slams. If Serena wasn't as daunting a prospect as she is she would be beaten far more. Why, because its a rare thing to see Serena play her best.

i still think she does not have nearly the amount of natural talent for tennis that Martina or Justine has.

power, intimidation, scaring people...wow, you would think Serena was some kind of maffia or something...

Kart
Mar 20th, 2007, 02:11 PM
One would hope that many players believe they can beat Serena if they play their best.

Otherwise what would be the point of trying to compete ?

As for how many believe they're more talented, it's irrelevant. Serena is not unbeatable - talent can only get you so far.

xan
Mar 20th, 2007, 02:18 PM
Most top contenders in the WTA will believe they have more talent than Serena - otherwise they wouldn't be top contenders.

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 02:43 PM
Most top contenders in the WTA will believe they have more talent than Serena - otherwise they wouldn't be top contenders.


I agree with you. There's no point in getting out on the court if you don't believe you can beat Serena. So the intimidation factor point is moot there already.

The top players will always have to believe they can beat Serena and sure Serena is beatable so why not?

But you can't forget that for example Hingis and Henin who many believe are more talented than Serena will have to use every tennis skill they posess to beat Serena. Serena on the other hand can beat them with only her serve and baseline grounstrokes. That's not to say that she can't play all court like Henin and Hingis she can but it's not always required of her to beat players.

Because of that and coupled with her immense will to win resulting in tremendous fighting spirit Serena's more talented IMO than any active player on the tour right now.

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 02:55 PM
But you can't forget that for example Hingis and Henin who many believe are more talented than Serena will have to use every tennis skill they posess to beat Serena. Serena on the other hand can beat them with only her serve and baseline grounstrokes. That's not to say that she can't play all court like Henin and Hingis she can but it's not always required of her to beat players.

That simply means the power game is effective. I don't think Serena would be able to win if she didn't rely on power at all... she wouldn't be Serena. So as much as Hingis and Henin are relying on every skill they have to beat Serena... Serena also has to rely on her power game. I don't think she is going to be winning with finesse.

RenaSlam.
Mar 20th, 2007, 03:16 PM
0 or N/A

miffedmax
Mar 20th, 2007, 03:38 PM
I suspect there are probably five or six women who assume they can beat Serena.

There are probably a dozen more who think "I can beat her if she has an off day."

That would seem about right to me.

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 04:42 PM
That simply means the power game is effective. I don't think Serena would be able to win if she didn't rely on power at all... she wouldn't be Serena. So as much as Hingis and Henin are relying on every skill they have to beat Serena... Serena also has to rely on her power game. I don't think she is going to be winning with finesse.

What are you talking about? Serena can hit every shot in the book and then some to win her matches. She just uses her preferred style of playing, Serena can win using less tools than Henin and Hingis.
Henin and Hingis can't do that. Serena can win with finesse rewatch the OZ quarterfinal against Mauresmo. Serena relies on her powergame which also requires finesse btw. It's a skill to hit hard and keep the ball in and place it.

Furthermore she chooses to use her powergame but is also capable to use all her other skills. That's is one scary sight when she mixes her placed powershots with slices, dropshots, serve-volley, topspin, lobs etc. Henin and Hingis have to use their all court game or else they're not going to cut it against Serena.

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 04:45 PM
sybille bammer believes she is more talented and she has every reason to do so

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 04:51 PM
sybille bammer believes she is more talented and she has every reason to do so

:lol: Okay

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 04:51 PM
What are you talking about? Serena can hit every shot in the book and then some to win her matches. She just uses her preferred style of playing, Serena can win using less tools than Henin and Hingis.

Actually she wins with the tools she has. She cannot play like a Hingis.

Henin and Hingis can't do that. Serena can win with finesse rewatch the OZ quarterfinal against Mauresmo. Serena relies on her powergame which also requires finesse btw. It's a skill to hit hard and keep the ball in and place it.I never said it wasn't. She isn't a finesse player like Hingis or Henin though.
Furthermore she chooses to use her powergame but is also capable to use all her other skills. That's is one scary sight when she mixes her placed powershots with slices, dropshots, serve-volley, topspin, lobs etc. Henin and Hingis have to use their all court game or else they're not going to cut it against Serena.I highly doubt Serena can win a match *purely* by doing those things, like Hingis. She isn't as good as Hingis in that depratment. You could easily say that Hingis winning matches over Serena without the power is impressive It's like saying Serena wouldn't beat them without the power.

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Actually she wins with the tools she has. She cannot play like a Hingis.

I never said it wasn't. She isn't a finesse player like Hingis or Henin though.
I highly doubt Serena can win a match *purely* by doing those things, like Hingis. She isn't as good as Hingis in that depratment. You could easily say that Hingis winning matches over Serena without the power is impressive It's like saying Serena wouldn't beat them without the power.

When did I say she can play like Hingis or Henin? I am simply saying that she has more abilities than Henin and Hingis to win matches. She may not have the same touch as Henin or Hingis but she doesn't need to. She can hit all the shots in the book and they work for her and that's all that matters.

She has more options unlike Henin and Hingis and yes she has won matches purely on finesse. Finesse also means that you hit serves opponents can't return because they're placed, fast and varied. Finesse also means moving your opponent around the court with short/crazy angles and than go for the winner. Serena has done this many times. It's not all about power with her although she likes it a lot. Remember US Open semifinal 2001 :drool: That was pure domination.

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:09 PM
When did I say she can play like Hingis or Henin? I am simply saying that she has more abilities than Henin and Hingis to win matches. She may not have the same touch as Henin or Hingis but she doesn't need to. She can hit all the shots in the book and they work for her and that's all that matters.

She has more options unlike Henin and Hingis and yes she has won matches purely on finesse. Finesse also means that you hit serves opponents can't return because they're placed, fast and varied. Finesse also means moving your opponent around the court with short/crazy angles and than go for the winner. Serena has done this many times. It's not all about power with her although she likes it a lot. Remember US Open semifinal 2001 :drool: That was pure domination.


:lol: 2001 US Open SF was won purely on finesse???? You can't be serious. Like I said, if Henin and Hingis can't beat Serena without using all their skills... Serena can't beat them by without using her power.

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:12 PM
sybille bammer believes she is more talented and she has every reason to do so

Fuck off. That's the nicest way to put it to a hater, scumbag like you.

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:14 PM
[QUOTE=cellophane;10327212]:lol: 2001 US Open SF was won purely on finesse???? You can't be serious. Like I said, if Henin and Hingis can't beat Serena without using all their skills... Serena can't beat them by without using her power.[/QUOTE.

No, I used that semifinal as an example of pure accurate power domination from Serena.

Henin and Hingis certainly have a chance to beat Serena using all their skills.
Serena has more options/abilities and therefore chances to beat Henin and Hingis. I didn't say she can beat them without power, I said she can win matches with finesse. There's a difference.

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:18 PM
Fuck off. That's the nicest way to put it to a hater, scumbag like you.

there's no need to be nasty is there. this forum is about tennis, not me.

bandabou
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:19 PM
So Cellophane's saying: Justine and/or Martina CAN beat Serena without using any power at all, just "finesse", "touch", "smarts", etc, etc... but Serena CAN'T beat Henin or Hingis without power. Hmmm....

Then one wonders: why the heck did Justine bother getting all buffed up and stuff then? Martina tried to get buff herself too back in 2001.

Or are you saying that they just ain't talented enough? Don't have enough finesse, smarts, etc etc...? That they DO need power??!! :eek: :eek:

So who's fooling who?

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:22 PM
So Cellophane's saying: Justine and/or Martina CAN beat Serena without using any power at all, just "finesse", "touch", "smarts", etc, etc... but Serena CAN'T beat Henin or Hingis without power. Hmmm....

Then one wonders: why the heck did Justine bother getting all buffed up and stuff then? Martina tried to get buff herself too back in 2001.

Or are you saying that they just ain't talented enough? Don't have enough finesse, smarts, etc etc...? That they DO need power??!! :eek: :eek:

So who's fooling who?

Good point, and regardless Serena doesn't rely on her power only to win matches.

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:23 PM
there's no need to be nasty is there. this forum is about tennis, not me.

:haha: :haha: This coming form you. You know very well about being nasty. Can't say one good thing about players you don't like. You need to remind EVERYONE about EVERY REASON why you don't like them and what's 'so bad' about them.
Bammer does not think she has more talent than Serena. If she thought she did then she would have over 8 Grand Slams! So stop being so stupid.

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:23 PM
Serena doesn't rely on her power only to win matches.

yes she does. its all she can do

bandabou
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:27 PM
yes she does. its all she can do

Ok.

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:29 PM
yes she does. its all she can do

Seriously shut up. What would you know, you're not even a fan.
Just piss off :shrug: You don't need to broadcast your hatred for Serena all the time :rolleyes:

Mrs. Peel
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:30 PM
yes she does. its all she can do


your posts get more ridiculous by the minute :lol: I can not take you seriously at all with the crap you have been writing here:tape:

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Why don't we just ignore jazar? He/she has nothing meaningful and relevant to say and is quite laughable.

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:32 PM
Seriously shut up. What would you know, you're not even a fan.
Just piss off :shrug: You don't need to broadcast your hatred for Serena all the time :rolleyes:

your posts get more ridiculous by the minute :lol: I can not take you seriously at all with the crap you have been writing here:tape:

Why don't we just ignore jazar? He/she has nothing meaningful and relevant to say and is quite laughable.

ignore me if you want, i really couldnt care less, cos to me fans of the williams sisters are simply dirt

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:33 PM
Says the one who has nothing better to do but disrespect Serena.
Yeah, you piece of dirt.

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:34 PM
Says the one who has nothing better to do but disrespect Serena.
Yeah, you piece of dirt.

build a bridge and get over it, retards

Mrs. Peel
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:35 PM
All this yammering from you about Bammer. She's been pro since 1997 and she only has one title (a Tier III in Kolkatta) and all of a sudden she is superior to Serena? :smash::cuckoo::bs::haha:

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Henin and Hingis certainly have a chance to beat Serena using all their skills.Serena has more options/abilities and therefore chances to beat Henin and Hingis. I didn't say she can beat them without power, I said she can win matches with finesse. There's a difference.

And Hingis can win matches using pure finesse (or at least used to be). Now that's impressive. Yes, Serena has more options than Hingis because she does have the power in the first place, but like I said, her slices, lobs... etc aren't as good as a Henin (who has the power by the way). The fact that Serena can win just using her power game while Henin and Hingis have to use all of their tools really only tells you that they go differently about winning matches, not that they are less talented. Because while Serena does have other things... she can't win without the power either.

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:36 PM
build a bridge and get over it, retards

Or you could grow up, get some respect and just keep out of Serena threads.
But no, that's too hard for a twat like you I guess. You have to act all "oh I hate Serena" :rolleyes:

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Or you could grow up, get some respect and just keep out of Serena threads.
But no, that's too hard for a twat like you I guess. You have to act all "oh I hate Serena" :rolleyes:

tough decision. but i think i'll keep up with what i'm doing

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:39 PM
tough decision. but i think i'll keep up with what i'm doing

Why? It's pathetic, just like you. You've got a cheek trying to call us dirt. You're even taking pride in it, you moron :weirdo:

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:39 PM
So Cellophane's saying: Justine and/or Martina CAN beat Serena without using any power at all, just "finesse", "touch", "smarts", etc, etc... but Serena CAN'T beat Henin or Hingis without power. Hmmm....

Then one wonders: why the heck did Justine bother getting all buffed up and stuff then? Martina tried to get buff herself too back in 2001.

Or are you saying that they just ain't talented enough? Don't have enough finesse, smarts, etc etc...? That they DO need power??!! :eek: :eek:

So who's fooling who?

Um, it tells you that the power game is effective. DUH. Hingis never played it though and was able to beat Serena. And... Where did I say getting power was bad?

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:40 PM
Why? It's pathetic, just like you. You've got a cheek trying to call us dirt. You're even taking pride in it, you moron :weirdo:

dont you think you've taken this thread far enough off topic now

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:40 PM
:haha: Jazar, thanks for the goodrep! :weirdo:

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:42 PM
:haha: Jazar, thanks for the goodrep! :weirdo:

no problems. i've given up badrepping, no matter how much of a twat the person is

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:42 PM
no problems. i've given up badrepping, no matter how much of a twat the person is

I'm sure you just pressed the wrong button :lol:

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:43 PM
And Hingis can win matches using pure finesse (or at least used to be). Now that's impressive. Yes, Serena has more options than Hingis because she does have the power in the first place, but like I said, her slices, lobs... etc aren't as good as a Henin (who has the power by the way). The fact that Serena can win just using her power game while Henin and Hingis have to use all of their tools really only tells you that they go differently about winning matches, not that they are less talented. Because while Serena does have other things... she can't win without the power either.

Yes, and it also tells you that Henin and Hingis are limited in their options.
Henin has power but she can't rely on it only. She will never be able to overpower Serena. Henin's serve isn't as good as Serena's.

Hingis beating Serena with finesse is indeed impressive but she had to be aggressive to do it. You think that Serena can't win without power. I know she can. She can adapt herself to almost any player and beat that player.
Constantly you're saying that Serena's touch on several shots isn't as good as Henin's or Hingis'. Why is that? I never compared her to Henin and Hingis in that respect. All I said is that she can play all those shots and win with them.

Serena has power, defends well, finesse, accuracy, touch, good technique, knows how to strategically play matches against most opponents and is therefore more talented than Henin and Hingis.

Henin and Hingis make the most of what they have and that's commendable.
Btw, the thread was about how many players believe they're more talented than Serena. I think that both Henin and Hingis believe they're more talented.

Mina Vagante
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:43 PM
I'm sure you just pressed the wrong button :lol:

wouldn't surprise me

bandabou
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:55 PM
Um, it tells you that the power game is effective. DUH. Hingis never played it though and was able to beat Serena. And... Where did I say getting power was bad?

power game is effective, huh? So you saying you can win with just power, but you can't win with just slices, lobs, spins??? Hmmmm, hmmm....

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:56 PM
Yes, and it also tells you that Henin and Hingis are limited in their options.
Henin has power but she can't rely on it only. She will never be able to overpower Serena. Henin's serve isn't as good as Serena's.

No, she can't.

Hingis beating Serena with finesse is indeed impressive but she had to be aggressive to do it. You think that Serena can't win without power. I know she can. She can adapt herself to almost any player and beat that player. How? She's never played a match where she hasn't used power, so who can you say that?

Constantly you're saying that Serena's touch on several shots isn't as good as Henin's or Hingis'. Why is that? I never compared her to Henin and Hingis in that respect. All I said is that she can play all those shots and win with them. Because you initally poined out that Serena is more talented that the other two because she can win simply by using power (okay, you said by using her serve and groundstrokes... but that is essentially her power game), while the other two have to pull out their full bag of tricks. I just pointed out that Serena's power is her bag of tricks... like the other two rely on their tricks to win matches she certainly relies on the power game. Serena can drop shot, slice whatever... but that's not going to win her matches.

Serena has power, defends well, finesse, accuracy, touch, good technique, knows how to strategically play matches against most opponents and is therefore more talented than Henin and Hingis.I'm still missing the explanation on how she is more talented.

Henin and Hingis make the most of what they have and that's commendable.Btw, the thread was about how many players believe they're more talented than Serena. I think that both Henin and Hingis believe they're more talented.Like I said, I doubt players go around thinking "Am I better than Serena?".

T-GIRL87
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:57 PM
Posters on this board like to repeatedly emphasis the belief that Serena's game is soley dependent on her mindless bashing of the ball, resulting in her opponents being overpowered from the baseline. To those I ask if power is all thats needed to be successful in todays game, shouldn't someone like Sprem have surpassed Hingis in slams already? Sprem can hit the ball harder than a lot players, yet she isn't exactly feared like Henin is. Lindsay, Capriati, Clijsters, Dementieva, Mary Pierce, all play similar power games from the baseline, yet havent managed to capture the all four majors like Serena has done in her young career. Whats the difference between S.W. and everybody else, when her one dimensional baseline game is no more one dimensional and mindless than everybody elses?

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:58 PM
power game is effective, huh? So you saying you can win with just power, but you can't win with just slices, lobs, spins??? Hmmmm, hmmm....

What are your driving at? Yes, you can win with finesse, as Hingis showed.

robisanl
Mar 20th, 2007, 05:59 PM
All this chatter about which player's game is more stylish or elegant than another player's game always strikes me as irrelevant. This is tennis, not figure skating. There are no style points in tennis. What matters is the effectiveness of a shot, not its beauty.

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 06:00 PM
I'm sure you just pressed the wrong button :lol:

i've developed past the need to be disrepectful about other posters. so i only give positive rep now

Posters on this board like to repeatedly emphasis the belief that Serena's game is soley dependent on her mindless bashing of the ball, resulting in her opponents being overpowered from the baseline. To those I ask if power is all thats needed to be successful in todays game, shouldn't someone like Sprem have surpassed Hingis in slams already? Sprem can hit the ball harder than a lot players, yet she isn't exactly feared like Henin is. Lindsay, Capriati, Clijsters, Dementieva, Mary Pierce, all play similar power games from the baseline, yet havent managed to capture the all four majors like Serena has done in her young career. Whats the difference between S.W. and everybody else, when her one dimensional baseline game is no more one dimensional and mindless than everybody elses?

sprem may hit the ball hard, but does it go in?

Craigy
Mar 20th, 2007, 06:01 PM
i've developed past the need to be disrepectful about other posters. so i only give positive rep now.

Oh but its ok to be disrespecful to Serena :lol: Ok :yeah:

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 06:04 PM
Posters on this board like to repeatedly emphasis the belief that Serena's game is soley dependent on her mindless bashing of the ball, resulting in her opponents being overpowered from the baseline. To those I ask if power is all thats needed to be successful in todays game, shouldn't someone like Sprem have surpassed Hingis in slams already? Sprem can hit the ball harder than a lot players, yet she isn't exactly feared like Henin is.

Serena obviously doesn't just hit the ball hard. She is accurate and she doesn't just bash like Sprem does. BTW, when Sprem is on, she is verygood.

Lindsay, Capriati, Clijsters, Dementieva, Mary Pierce, all play similar power games from the baseline, yet havent managed to capture the all four majors like Serena has done in her young career. Whats the difference between S.W. and everybody else, when her one dimensional baseline game is no more one dimensional and mindless than everybody elses?

Lindsay doesn't have the movement obviously. Dementieva doesn't have the serve. Mary is as good or better than Serena when she is on... unfortunately she is injured most of the time. Clijsters... well you know the story. At any rate, Serena is the best power player today and the most mentally tough.

jazar
Mar 20th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Oh but its ok to be disrespecful to Serena :lol: Ok :yeah:

yeah, cos if you noticed i only said 'posters'. i didnt mention anything about players

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 06:17 PM
No, she can't.

How? She's never played a match where she hasn't used power, so who can you say that?

Because you initally poined out that Serena is more talented that the other two because she can win simply by using power (okay, you said by using her serve and groundstrokes... but that is essentially her power game), while the other two have to pull out their full bag of tricks. I just pointed out that Serena's power is her bag of tricks... like the other two rely on their tricks to win matches she certainly relies on the power game. Serena can drop shot, slice whatever... but that's not going to win her matches.

I'm still missing the explanation on how she is more talented.

Like I said, I doubt players go around thinking "Am I better than Serena?".

I've explained many times that Serena is more talented because she has more options that help her win matches. It's not all about power with her. She's multi talented. Hingis and Henin are very talented as well just not as talented as Serena. Their slam singles results prove that. By saying she can win matches without power I mean that the key part in her game does center around her serve and tactics meaning placement, forcing opponents out of the court and coming into the net and finishing points there.

You make it seem that she's so succesful only because she uses power.
That's not the case and if you really studied Serena's game you would know it.

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 06:26 PM
I've explained many times that Serena is more talented because she has more options that help her win matches. It's not all about power with her. She's multi talented. Hingis and Henin are very talented as well just not as talented as Serena.

Serena may be a better player than Hingis, but she is not more complete. And she doesn't have more optons than Henin either. They are just good at different things.

Their slam singles results prove that.Their slam results prove that Serena is the most decorated player right now. Henin and Serena haven't even met in 4 years, while Hingis just came back last year. Unofrtunately Hingis sucks at the moment.


By saying she can win matches without power I mean that the key part in her game does center around her serve and tactics meaning placement, forcing opponents out of the court and coming into the net and finishing points there. Again.... she has to have power to be able to execute all of those things.

You make it seem that she's so succesful only because she uses power. That's not the case and if you really studied Serena's game you would know it.Mainly, yes. I didn't say she was a mindless ball basher or that she doesn't have great placement on her serve or has angles... but you can't say that power is not a staple of Serena's game, and everybody knows that.

T-GIRL87
Mar 20th, 2007, 06:51 PM
Serena obviously doesn't just hit the ball hard. She is accurate and she doesn't just bash like Sprem does. BTW, when Sprem is on, she is verygood.



Lindsay doesn't have the movement obviously. Dementieva doesn't have the serve. Mary is as good or better than Serena when she is on... unfortunately she is injured most of the time. Clijsters... well you know the story. At any rate, Serena is the best power player today and the most mentally tough.

Yes, so you can admit that it takes more than just power to win lots of majors. In another post, you contradict yourself in stating that all Serena has to do is use her power to win. While Lindsays and Mary's movement prohibits them from getting to certain balls, Serena's athleticism can help her return shots that could have been winners. Clijsters can mentally fall apart in pressure situations, where as for S.W., her mental fortitude can help her win tough matches. Dementieva's serve has constantly kept her from winning majors, While Serena's serve has won her matches while on the brink of defeat. Yes, she uses power, but she also has important attributes, that makes her game more complete than her peers.

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 06:57 PM
Serena may be a better player than Hingis, but she is not more complete. And she doesn't have more optons than Henin either. They are just good at different things.

Their slam results prove that Serena is the most decorated player right now. Henin and Serena haven't even met in 4 years, while Hingis just came back last year. Unofrtunately Hingis sucks at the moment.


Again.... she has to have power to be able to execute all of those things.

Mainly, yes. I didn't say she was a mindless ball basher or that she doesn't have great placement on her serve or has angles... but you can't say that power is not a staple of Serena's game, and everybody knows that.

Serena is not more complete than Hingis? Then why can players so easily crush Hingis' serve, why does she always have to move players around to win a point? Serena doesn't rely on other players weaknesses to win a match. She wins with her own weapons. She is a more complete player because of that.

As for Henin, Serena is good at more things than Henin is so that makes her a more complete player right there. Henin always has to use a combination of tennis skills to win and even than the win isn't guaranteed. Serena can win with one type of play (powergame) or with a combination of tennis skills and sometimes with finesse like her earlier mentioned match against Mauresmo in OZ 2005.

Them not meeting each other doesn't matter. Henin, Serena and Hingis are making the most of their chances. So far Serena has done the best with her varied qualities.

For the last time I never said Serena doesn't primarily play an accurate powergame. She does. The point I'm trying to make however is that she CHOOSES TO USE her power in a beneficial way. It doesn't mean she hasn´t other options. She has and can win with them. She goes for the most effective way. Can you blame her?

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:00 PM
Yes, so you can admit that it takes more than just power to win lots of majors. In another post, you contradict yourself in stating that all Serena has to do is use her power to win.

I said Serena can't win without the power. Her power game isn't just hitting hard, but it's a game which is based on power nonetheless.

While Lindsays and Mary's movement prohibits them from getting to certain balls, Serena's athleticism can help her return shots that could have been winners. Clijsters can mentally fall apart in pressure situations, where as for S.W., her mental fortitude can help her win tough matches. Dementieva's serve has constantly kept her from winning majors, While Serena's serve has won her matches while on the brink of defeat. Yes, she uses power, but she also has important attributes, that makes her game more complete than her peers.

Yes, like I said, she has the serve and the movement and the mental toughness. So? That doesn't take away from what her game is essentially based on.

fufuqifuqishahah
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:07 PM
I said Serena can't win without the power. Her power game isn't just hitting hard, but it's a game which is based on power nonetheless.



Yes, like I said, she has the serve and the movement and the mental toughness. So? That doesn't take away from what her game is essentially based on.

i agree. she can move the ball well and has good placement but without the power, she just becomes a regular top 20 player. the power gives her greater ability to finish off points, and helps move her opponents around even more. just think wimbledon 05 for an example. or maybe you would like to compare a non-power serena to the current game of shahar peer - great movement, can move opponents around - good fight - no juice on serve and not enough power on groundstrokes... though maybe serena has more variety.

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:11 PM
Serena is not more complete than Hingis? Then why can players so easily crush Hingis' serve, why does she always have to move players around to win a point?

Um, she doesn't have the power... and she doesn't have as good of a serve as Serena. What does moving players around have to do with not having a complete game?

Serena doesn't rely on other players weaknesses to win a match. She wins with her own weapons. She is more complete player because of that.

And Henin and Hingis have their weapons? Hingis relies on her court sense and taking the ball early.


As for Henin, Serena is good at more things than Henin is so that makes her a more complete player right there.

Serena is better at more things than Henin? Like volleys, slice, dropshot, lobs? Surely not.

Henin always has to use a combination of tennis skills to win and even than the win isn't guaranteed.

Same old. Same old. Serena has to use her power... and her winning is not always a guarantee either.

Serena can win with one type of play (powergame) or with a combination of tennis skills and sometimes with finesse like her earlier mentioned match against Mauresmo in OZ 2005.

Again... she needs to use some power to win. The rest of her skills aren't enough... and it's not the rest of her skills that win her matches alone.

Them not meeting each other doesn't matter. Henin, Serena and Hingis are making the most of their chances. So far Serena has done the best with her varied qualities.

Hingis retired before Serena caught up with the number of slams she won. Henin has improved *a lot* since 2003.

For the last time I never said Serena doesn't primarily play an accurate powergame. She does. The point I'm trying to make however is that she CHOOSES TO USE her power in a beneficial way. It doesn't mean she has other options. She has and can win with them. She goes for the most effective way. Can you blame her?

She can't win with simply using the other options. Okay... I don't really have anything else to say

fufuqifuqishahah
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Serena has power, defends well, finesse, accuracy, touch, good technique, knows how to strategically play matches against most opponents and is therefore more talented than Henin and Hingis.




i love it when serena does her sidespin slice backhand. it's so funky and random but i feel it can be rather effective and help her come to the net // have her wait for the right passing shot opportunity.

Stamp Paid
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:13 PM
Why do we always have to have these types of threads with Serena as the subject? :rolleyes: Why couldn't yall have said Henin or Hingis or something.

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Why do we always have to have these types of threads with Serena as the subject? :rolleyes: Why couldn't yall have said Henin or Hingis or something.

Because the world revolves around Serena obviously. :rolleyes:

Stamp Paid
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Oh stop trolling.

fufuqifuqishahah
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Because the world revolves around Serena obviously. :rolleyes:

it does :p

Tennisaddict
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Um, she doesn't have the power... and she doesn't have as good of a serve as Serena. What does moving players around have to do with not having a complete game?



And Henin and Hingis have their weapons? Hingis relies on her court sense and taking the ball early.




Serena is better at more things than Henin? Like volleys, slice, dropshot, lobs? Surely not.



Same old. Same old. Serena has to use her power... and her winning is not always a guarantee either.



Again... she needs to use some power to win. The rest of her skills aren't enough... and it's not the rest of her skills that win her matches alone.



Hingis retired before Serena caught up with the number of slams she won. Henin has improved *a lot* since 2003.



She can't win with simply using the other options. Okay... I don't really have anything else to say

Okay, if that´s all you have to say let´s agree to disagree than.
We´re repeating the same thing so. You won´t convince me otherwise and vice versa. I must say that it´s refreshing to discuss these topics in a normal manner.

It´s quite rare at wtaworld :lol:. Now I have to go do some homework pronto!

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:17 PM
Oh stop trolling.

Huh? Did I make these threads?

Nicolás89
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:21 PM
i see serena like one of the most intelligent players ever, she just dont bash the ball every time, if she recieves a hard ball she not only bash the ball harder (she can probably, cause she is the most powerful ever) she mix her power to prove the other player and see how many streghnt she has or how many power she can handle, so she change her intesity as a volume buttom, in a long rally she mix the power and her athletic skills and when she has an oportunity she hit an obvious winner, she is the only one who can do this cause at her best she doesnt have any weak point in her game, so the only player who can actually beat serena at her best is one who can handle power but who also is able to know what shot and moves she is going to do, and that player is martina hingis, (for this to happen, she has to be in her very best too) unfortunately we had never seen a match between these too at their very best, emmm but we watched a bit in ao 01

Stamp Paid
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:30 PM
Huh? Did I make these threads?

maybe not, but you contribute the majority of the posts in "these" threads. You should do a search of your recent posts.

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:34 PM
maybe not, but you contribute more posts to them than most.

I'd love to know what I contributed to this thread that constitutes trolling. I post a lot in all threads btw. Am I trolling in the Kim threads I post a lot? Whatever. Kind of hard not post in these threads when they are everywhere and totally ridiculous. Excuse me for getting annoyed at them.

Conor
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Obviously Serena is highly talented but I dont think shes the most talented... Hingis is without a doubt the most talented, she has every shot in the book. If the title had of said 'How many players do you think believe that they are better players than Serena?' then the answer IMO would be nobody! But I think Hingis and Justine are more naturally talented...

Nicolás89
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:41 PM
I'd love to know what I contributed to this thread that constitutes trolling. I post a lot in all threads btw. Am I trolling in the Kim threads I post a lot? Whatever. Kind of hard not post in these threads when they are everywhere and totally ridiculous. Excuse me for getting annoyed at them.

you just love to swim against the torrent, dont cha?:p

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:43 PM
you just love to swim against the torrent, dont cha?:p

If it's a shit torrent. ;)

Stamp Paid
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:45 PM
I'd love to know what I contributed to this thread that constitutes trolling. I post a lot in all threads btw. Am I trolling in the Kim threads I post a lot? Whatever. Kind of hard not post in these threads when they are everywhere and totally ridiculous. Excuse me for getting annoyed at them.

Well its just that the threads that annoy me (Like THESE), I try not to post in.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Hingis , Mauresmo and Henin

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Well its just that the threads that annoy me (Like THESE), I try not to post in.

Well, that's your choice, but I'm annoyed at how stupid they are (not enough to ignore them), and I will usually say that.

Apoorv
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:52 PM
There is no point of discussion in any serena thread because her fans are not open for it. a single statement saying something non positive about her and all her fans jump upon others.

only two things can be done to not get in a fight with them -
1) everyone should just say -serena is the ultimate goddess of tennis, once in a lifetime talent( here i imply life of planet earth). no other player has ever born with such talent and no one ever will. everyone :worship: serena.

2) dont post

cellophane
Mar 20th, 2007, 07:56 PM
There is no point of discussion in any serena thread because her fans are not open for it. a single statement saying something non positive about her and all her fans jump upon others.

If only Serena threads were actually infested with the shit about Serena. :help:

1) everyone should just say -serena is the ultimate goddess of tennis, once in a lifetime talent( here i imply life of planet earth). no other player has ever born with such talent and no one ever will. everyone :worship: serena.

Galaxy.

2) dont post

True... I just wish it'd go away.

bandabou
Mar 20th, 2007, 08:01 PM
Um, it tells you that the power game is effective. DUH. Hingis never played it though and was able to beat Serena. And... Where did I say getting power was bad?

Hmmm...so only power is enough, but only smarts, touch, slice, finesse..ain't? Hmmm....makes you wonder: who's smarter?? :scratch:

fufuqifuqishahah
Mar 20th, 2007, 08:18 PM
If only Serena threads were actually infested with the shit about Serena. :help:



Galaxy.



True... I just wish it'd go away.

u rn't trolling. don't worry

bandabou
Mar 20th, 2007, 08:27 PM
Serena obviously doesn't just hit the ball hard. She is accurate and she doesn't just bash like Sprem does. BTW, when Sprem is on, she is verygood.



Lindsay doesn't have the movement obviously. Dementieva doesn't have the serve. Mary is as good or better than Serena when she is on... unfortunately she is injured most of the time. Clijsters... well you know the story. At any rate, Serena is the best power player today and the most mentally tough.

Well, well...so now when asked how come other "power" players or mindless bashers aren't winning as often as Serena does, it's: oh she's athletic, she's a serve, she's mentally tough...? Hmmm. getting more and more curious. Hey, as long as she keeps winning..

Who needs talent, when obviously talent alone ain't enough to win 4 majors in a row, etc ec..??