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CDGS22
Mar 10th, 2007, 08:35 PM
Okay, so I am a Maria Fan, and I do think that her father wants what is truly best for her,and that he loves her very much.

But, he needs to step down and get Maria a REAL COACH, someone who can help Maria on strategy and help her with her serve.

Look at Peter Graf(I know not the best father, but whatever) He taught Steffi about tennis, and was her coach, until he REALIZED that he DID NOT know everything about strategy and things like that. Getting Maria a coach would be the best thing for her. And no Joyce, is not a coach!

Serge007
Mar 10th, 2007, 09:07 PM
And no Joyce, is not a coach!
No. I think he is a good coach.

Steve-o
Mar 10th, 2007, 10:09 PM
No. I think he is a good coach.

I agree. Just because Joyce is not a big name doesn't mean that he can't do a great job. Maria is obviously happy with what he is doing and the three of them work well as a unit. It's not like Maria's game has gone backwards since they dumped Lansdorp, in fact it's gone markedly the other way. I think her recent slump in form is due to injury rather than the competency of the coaching she has been receiving.

bellascarlett
Mar 11th, 2007, 04:48 AM
I actually hope she trains again with Lansdorp even for just a few weeks to try to get things a little better. There's no guarantee that will happen but at least the guy knows her game very well and his opinions could count for something. I'm really worried. I know some here don't like Robert. The guy's a character though. I like him.

Andy.
Mar 11th, 2007, 06:59 AM
Im a little worries as well. This problem with her serve has sort of come out of no where and she apparently had an awesome off season so Im a little miffed at whats happened. I hope that she will be OK her serve is such a vital part of her game and when its on everything seems to fall into place. I wouldnt mind her going back to Robert.

Steve-o
Mar 11th, 2007, 10:41 AM
I actually hope she trains again with Lansdorp even for just a few weeks to try to get things a little better. There's no guarantee that will happen but at least the guy knows her game very well and his opinions could count for something. I'm really worried. I know some here don't like Robert. The guy's a character though. I like him.

You may know more than me but is that very likely? If you believe what was written at the time then they didn't part on the best terms.

Maria Croft
Mar 11th, 2007, 11:32 AM
She won her second slam without a 'real' coach, I think people shouldn't try and search for stuff that isn't there. If she is still serving badly when we arrive at Wimbledon then I think we can start to worry, I don't think getting a 'real' coach would change that much right now.

Dan23
Mar 11th, 2007, 12:19 PM
I think there is very little chance of Maria ever having much to do with Lansdorp again. His work is done with Maria...they have produced great groundstrokes which are a major weapon for Maria...plus they didnt part on the best terms.
Maria may benefit from more input but who wouldnt....there aint much broke so there isnt much need for fixing. I dont think they feel a real urgency in improving Maria's netgame but instead theyre letting it come gradually.

XCoco
Mar 11th, 2007, 01:01 PM
The end of her partnership with Robert isn’t the best thing which happened to her, but even without him, she really improved. Robert's job is done; now she has to improve with her own coaches and I don't think she will work with him again. Mike isn’t the best coach yes (probably because he is a hitting partner) but if she is ok with him, I don't know why she would change with another one. The only thing which isn’t really tolerable is her father's behaviour. He should be more distant from Maria’s career in my opinion. Moreover, Maria is still young, so she has plenty of time to improve.

xan
Mar 11th, 2007, 01:10 PM
lansdorp was never a Serve coach, he was mainly a groundstrokes specialist.

So far Maria's homegrown coaching team has produced good results and steady improvement. So long as it isn't broke, there's no real reason for a panic "fix".

Maria's more recent problems on serve are slightly worrying, and if they continue she may need specialist hel to sort it out.

Maria has always had a certain weakness on serve - despite the fact that when it is working it is excellent. She has always had the tendency to lose four or five games in a row - which a really consistent server should almost never do. It is these tendencies to lose her serve games too often which have caused some of her biggest problems with losing 5-2 leads, or getting into the match against Serena at the AO.

Il Primo!
Mar 11th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Maria played 3 tournaments this year, including IW. Ok, she's not red hot since the beginning of the year but she was injured.
Yesterday against Misa, the rust did the job, useless to search beyond this. We could draft conclusions after Miami but now it's to anticipated IMO. Keep having faith in her. She's not gonna let the whale without giving all she has. I'm sure she will show another side against Dechy.
So let the team progress and improve together it's just a matter of time before Maria finds her real game, not a matter of coaching.

rockwithme
Mar 12th, 2007, 04:49 PM
I think there is very little chance of Maria ever having much to do with Lansdorp again. His work is done with Maria...they have produced great groundstrokes which are a major weapon for Maria...plus they didnt part on the best terms.


yep..especially when he was being such a bitch :rolleyes: although i do credit him for building sharpie's game :)

Mike isn’t the best coach yes (probably because he is a hitting partner) but if she is ok with him, I don't know why she would change with another one. The only thing which isn’t really tolerable is her father's behaviour. He should be more distant from Maria’s career in my opinion. Moreover, Maria is still young, so she has plenty of time to improve.

:worship:

lansdorp was never a Serve coach, he was mainly a groundstrokes specialist.

So far Maria's homegrown coaching team has produced good results and steady improvement. So long as it isn't broke, there's no real reason for a panic "fix".

Maria's more recent problems on serve are slightly worrying, and if they continue she may need specialist hel to sort it out.

Maria has always had a certain weakness on serve - despite the fact that when it is working it is excellent. She has always had the tendency to lose four or five games in a row - which a really consistent server should almost never do. It is these tendencies to lose her serve games too often which have caused some of her biggest problems with losing 5-2 leads, or getting into the match against Serena at the AO.

for some reason, i dont really think much of joyce and never have :confused:
but he must be some sort of good for maria to be keeping him around and all the best for their future endeavours :)

but lke you said, i think maria should be bringing in another "specialist" coach into her camp to help with expanding her already solid game.
ormaybe just fire joyce altogether :p

CDGS22
Mar 13th, 2007, 01:36 PM
The end of her partnership with Robert isnít the best thing which happened to her, but even without him, she really improved. Robert's job is done; now she has to improve with her own coaches and I don't think she will work with him again. Mike isnít the best coach yes (probably because he is a hitting partner) but if she is ok with him, I don't know why she would change with another one. The only thing which isnít really tolerable is her father's behaviour. He should be more distant from Mariaís career in my opinion. Moreover, Maria is still young, so she has plenty of time to improve.


yes, but the sooner she learns how to build on her game the easier it will be, the older she gets the harder it will be to change what she knows. The sooner the better

Serge007
Mar 13th, 2007, 01:49 PM
btw Robert Landsdorp is Anna Chakvetadze' coach now.

CDGS22
Mar 13th, 2007, 09:45 PM
After today loss...GET A COACH!!!!!!!

Maria Croft
Mar 14th, 2007, 07:44 AM
I really hate it when people start to blame the coach after every bad loss, don't get me wrong, I really think a good coach could help Maria a lot, and is probably better for her in the end. But it's not like her father and her training partner haven't done any good things? So now all of a sudden they should be dumped because things aren't going very well?

CDGS22
Mar 14th, 2007, 11:24 AM
Joyce isnt her coach...he is her hitting partner...Yuri is her coach!!!! She needs a REAL COACH!

Sharapower8
Mar 14th, 2007, 11:25 AM
I agree Summon!
I don't think she needs a new coach and Joyce seems to be a great one even if he's not famous...Can't you just imagine that Maria is not perfect and she has hard times like everyone? And after all, this is Maria decision and if she's feeling well with them I think we should let her and we both know that she did great things with Yuri and Joyce. And she's certainly destined to do greatest things :)

pigam
Mar 14th, 2007, 11:44 AM
yeah, I agree with you Summon.
This is an interesting discussion, but still, one should wonder. Isthis "rough patch" Maria is going through caused by her coach?? I don't think we really know. in fact, I even find it a bit unlikely. I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to change coaches every other year. The best thing is probably to go through a tough time TOGETHER with your coach, and search for solutions with that coach. I hope that is what she will do. I mean, lately, in sports (and other domains) there seems to be some kind of "dump" culture. Dumping or changing a coach is never a magical solution. Sure it can help. But what can help your confidence even more is, to work -as an adult- together with your coach you have trusted and try to build further from that.

You know, it's quite intruiging. Being fan of a player who has altered her serve motion I think 5 times in her carreer, I kinda knows how it feels. I don't know if Maria is trying to change/add something to her serve. but that's what some picture seem to imply. Justine has lost matches because of -amoung other stuff- a very inconsistent serve due to yet another motion. Some fans criticise her for it. I think we should be proud of our respective favs because they dare to do this! Some other players never seem to alter their game.

Maybe a bit farfetched, but I really think that Maria is rather smart. I think she sees that a player like Justine is able to change basic strokes and that Justine benefits from it. She mayeb (as she herself said in press conferences) int hat respect sees someone like Justine as a bit of an example. Maria is still very young, I think that she (again IF she is working on her serve) is doing a very smart thing. It doesn't necessarily mean she has a BAD coach, it could mean that she has a MOTIVATED and ambitious team behind her, which stimulates her to search for even greater highs!

Justine is the WTAplayer that I "know best". And often, she has been criticised for changing things to her game. Like her forehand (which can go totally :cuckoo: ) at times. But that's the "champions risk" that these players are willing to take. On the long run, she'll probably benefit from this. And I fear the moment masha masters a kick serve, because she has the height to be kicking them right over Justine's head :angel: :p

Dan23
Mar 14th, 2007, 12:11 PM
This sort of thread often seems to surface when Maria hits a bit of trouble...as though some people have it in for Yuri/Mike at the earliest opportunity ;) I doubt Maria is tinkering with her serve right now.


btw of all the weeks Maria has spent at #1, in her 3 stints, how many of them has she been fit, healthy and able to perform at her best? Musnt be many...

P_Fer
Mar 14th, 2007, 03:38 PM
yeah, I agree with you Summon.
This is an interesting discussion, but still, one should wonder. Isthis "rough patch" Maria is going through caused by her coach?? I don't think we really know. in fact, I even find it a bit unlikely. I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to change coaches every other year. The best thing is probably to go through a tough time TOGETHER with your coach, and search for solutions with that coach. I hope that is what she will do. I mean, lately, in sports (and other domains) there seems to be some kind of "dump" culture. Dumping or changing a coach is never a magical solution. Sure it can help. But what can help your confidence even more is, to work -as an adult- together with your coach you have trusted and try to build further from that.

You know, it's quite intruiging. Being fan of a player who has altered her serve motion I think 5 times in her carreer, I kinda knows how it feels. I don't know if Maria is trying to change/add something to her serve. but that's what some picture seem to imply. Justine has lost matches because of -amoung other stuff- a very inconsistent serve due to yet another motion. Some fans criticise her for it. I think we should be proud of our respective favs because they dare to do this! Some other players never seem to alter their game.

Maybe a bit farfetched, but I really think that Maria is rather smart. I think she sees that a player like Justine is able to change basic strokes and that Justine benefits from it. She mayeb (as she herself said in press conferences) int hat respect sees someone like Justine as a bit of an example. Maria is still very young, I think that she (again IF she is working on her serve) is doing a very smart thing. It doesn't necessarily mean she has a BAD coach, it could mean that she has a MOTIVATED and ambitious team behind her, which stimulates her to search for even greater highs!

Justine is the WTAplayer that I "know best". And often, she has been criticised for changing things to her game. Like her forehand (which can go totally :cuckoo: ) at times. But that's the "champions risk" that these players are willing to take. On the long run, she'll probably benefit from this. And I fear the moment masha masters a kick serve, because she has the height to be kicking them right over Justine's head :angel: :p

Great post!!

Sharky_Waters
Mar 28th, 2007, 05:17 AM
Good coach, bad coach! It's all irrelevent I think. I don't believe anyone seriously expects Maria to dump her Dad! You don't just dump your Dad anyway! As Pigam says, perhaps she is trying to make adjustments on her own, and maybe Yuri and Michael are helping her with this, but I think again Pigam is most likely correct. Maria is a very intelligent individual and a very dedicated one as well. So I believe if she is making any changes, she is the one who as initiated them.

Something else to consider rather than a coaching change might be one of the Sports laboratories which analize your motions and actions and compare them to films and videotapes from previous competitions. They can then tell you exactly what changes you have made and, by applying physics, geometry, and areodynamics. they can tell you exactly what additional changes you should probably make. This might be something for her to consider if her serve doesn't straighten itself out. I also believe that part of her problem has to do with confidence, and the laboratory analysis might help her restore that as well.

I did not see any interview this afternoon after her game with Serena and so far, I haven't found any links to one, but I have never seen Maria act or even remotely suggest that she is worried about her game. And, if she is not worried, then I don't see any reason for fans to be. She is the one who has everything at stake so if she decides that she needs help, I'm pretty sure se will figure out how to get what she needs. We can offer all of the suggestions and ideas and opinions we like but they are going to have about as much influence as a pig's butt at a Bar Mitzvah.

So I suggest we do just as Dan and Pigam and everyone else has said and just sit back and wait and see what happens. She's in charge and I'm happy with that.

!!!--Duizô--!!!
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:51 AM
She definetly needs a new coach.

No offense, and in no way I mean Yuri is a bad coach, but Maria in my view has reached a plateu in learning relative to her father's shorthanded experience. She probably did oust Lansdorp as well. I think she should look into other coaches, to perfect other parts of her game. I noticed that he footwork was improved, but with the physique she has I think she isn't using it as well as she could.

CDGS22
Apr 11th, 2007, 03:37 AM
She definetly needs a new coach.

No offense, and in no way I mean Yuri is a bad coach, but Maria in my view has reached a plateu in learning relative to her father's shorthanded experience. She probably did oust Lansdorp as well. I think she should look into other coaches, to perfect other parts of her game. I noticed that he footwork was improved, but with the physique she has I think she isn't using it as well as she could.

Good, I am not the only one that thinks like thie...:D

xan
Apr 11th, 2007, 04:28 PM
Maria could probably do with some additional expert help in certain areas, but as well as, rather than instead of her current team.

She's done amazingly well so far without a full-time superstar coach, so she needs to make her selection wisely

!!!--Duizô--!!!
Apr 11th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Maria could probably do with some additional expert help in certain areas, but as well as, rather than instead of her current team.

She's done amazingly well so far without a full-time superstar coach, so she needs to make her selection wisely

Well different coaches have different ideas of what is best of tennis. Thus they have different values for what they believe is the best way of playing tennis. Thus, if you come to think about it, if you keep Yuri, and hypothetically lets say he wants her to lob the ball all the time, and then you bring a co-coach who believes that instead of spending 8 hours a week on lobbing and instead on using her left forehand for 8 hours then the values come into conflict. In my humble opinion, she should look for different coaches, choose the one she wants, and take a year on just switching coaches and trying new ones... Good ones of course. After that come back to daddy and practice what ever she wants from what she learned rather than practice limitedly with only the ideas that Lansdorp instilled in them. Don't tell me Yuri had previous experience with Sampras, Agassi, or Graff... I am sure that adding some other flavours of ideas should make her fruit cocktail more festive and irrestible.