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Pureracket
Dec 19th, 2006, 08:58 PM
http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19


Woman beaten on Jerusalem bus for refusing to move to rear seat http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif By Daphna Berman (daphnab@haaretz.co.il) http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif

A woman who reported a vicious attack by an ad-hoc "modesty patrol" on a Jerusalem bus last month is now lining up support for her case and may be included in a petition to the High Court of Justice over the legality of sex-segregated buses.

Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus. She is now in touch with several legal advocacy and women's organizations, and at the same time, waiting for the police to apprehend her attackers.

In her first interview since the incident, Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women. The bus driver, in response to a media inquiry, denied that violence was used against her, but Shear's account has been substantiated by an unrelated eyewitness on the bus who confirmed that she sustained an unprovoked "severe beating."


http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif

Shear, an American-Israeli woman who currently lives in Canada, says that on a recent five-week vacation to Israel, she rode the bus daily to the Old City to pray at sunrise. Though not defined by Egged as a sex-segregated "mehadrin" bus, women usually sit in the back, while men sit in the front, as a matter of custom.

"Every two or three days, someone would tell me to sit in the back, sometimes politely and sometimes not," she recalled this week in a telephone interview. "I was always polite and said 'No. This is not a synagogue. I am not going to sit in the back.'"

But Shear, a 50-year-old religious woman, says that on the morning of the 24th, a man got onto the bus and demanded her seat - even though there were a number of other seats available in the front of the bus.

"I said, I'm not moving and he said, 'I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.' Then he spat in my face and at that point, I was in high adrenaline mode and called him a son-of-a-bitch, which I am not proud of. Then I spat back. At that point, he pushed me down and people on the bus were screaming that I was crazy. Four men surrounded me and slapped my face, punched me in the chest, pulled at my clothes, beat me, kicked me. My snood [hair covering] came off. I was fighting back and kicked one of the men in his privates. I will never forget the look on his face."

Shear says that when she bent down in the aisle to retrieve her hair covering, "one of the men kicked me in the face. Thank God he missed my eye. I got up and punched him. I said, 'I want my hair covering back' but he wouldn't give it to me, so I took his black hat and threw it in the aisle."

'Stupid American'

Throughout the encounter, Shear says the bus driver "did nothing." The other passengers, she says, blamed her for not moving to the back of the bus and called her a "stupid American with no sechel [common sense.] People blamed me for not knowing my place and not going to the back of the bus where I belong."

According to Yehoshua Meyer, the eyewitness to the incident, Shear's account is entirely accurate. "I saw everything," he said. "Someone got on the bus and demanded that she go to the back, but she didn't agree. She was badly beaten and her whole body sustained hits and kicks. She tried to fight back and no one would help her. I tried to help, but someone was stopping me from getting up. My phone's battery was dead, so I couldn't call the police. I yelled for the bus driver to stop. He stopped once, but he didn't do anything. When we finally got to the Kotel [Western Wall], she was beaten badly and I helped her go to the police."

Shear says that when she first started riding the No. 2 line, she did not even know that it was sometimes sex-segregated. She also says that sitting in the front is simply more comfortable. "I'm a 50-year-old woman and I don't like to sit in the back. I'm dressed appropriately and I was on a public bus."

"It is very dangerous for a group of people to take control over a public entity and enforce their will without going through due process," she said. "Even if they [Haredim who want a segregated bus] are a majority - and I don't think they are - they have options available. They can petition Egged or hire their own private line. But as long as it's a public bus, I don't care if there are 500 people telling me where to sit. I can sit wherever I want and so can anyone else."

Meyer says that throughout the incident, the other passengers blamed Shear for not sitting in the back. "They'll probably claim that she attacked them first, but that's totally untrue. She was abused terribly, and I've never seen anything like it."

Word of Shear's story traveled quickly after she forwarded an e-mail detailing her experience. She has been contacted by a number of groups, including Shatil, the New Israel Fund's Empowerment and Training Center for Social Change; Kolech, a religious women's forum; the Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC), the legal advocacy arm of the local Reform movement; and the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance (JOFA).

In the coming month, IRAC will be submitting a petition to the High Court of Justice against the Transportation Ministry over the issue of segregated Egged buses. IRAC attorney Orly Erez-Likhovski is in touch with Shear and is considering including her in the petition.

Although the No. 2 Jerusalem bus where the incident occurred is not actually defined as a mehadrin line, Erez-Likhovski says that Shear's story is further proof that the issue requires legal clarification. About 30 Egged buses are designated as mehadrin, mostly on inter-city lines, but they are not marked to indicate this. "There's no way to identify a mehadrin bus, which in itself is a problem," she said.

"Theoretically, a person can sit wherever they want, even on a mehadrin line, but we're seeing that people are enforcing [the gender segregation] even on non-mehadrin lines and that's the part of the danger," she said.

On a mehadrin bus, women enter and exit through the rear door, and the seats from the rear door back are generally considered the "women's section." A child is usually sent forward to pay the driver.

The official responses

In a response from Egged, the bus driver denied that Shear was physically attacked in any way.

"In a thorough inquiry that we conducted, we found that the bus driver does not confirm that any violence was used against the complainant," Egged spokesman Ron Ratner wrote.

"According to the driver, once he saw that there was a crowd gathering around her, he stopped the bus and went to check what was going on. He clarified to the passengers that the bus was not a mehadrin line and that all passengers on the line are permitted to sit wherever they want on the bus. After making sure that the passengers returned to their seats, he continued driving."

The Egged response also noted that their drivers "are not able and are not authorized to supervise the behavior of the passengers in all situations."

Ministry of Transportation spokesperson Avner Ovadia said in response that the mehadrin lines are "the result of agreements reached between Egged and Haredi bodies" and are therefore unconnected to the ministry.

A spokesperson for the Jerusalem police said the case is still under investigation.

Veritas
Dec 19th, 2006, 09:17 PM
I assume the woman has bruises and some traces of spit on her face as proof of the attack. If that's the case, then the bus driver is truly an idiot for trying to deny the incident happened.

Pureracket
Dec 19th, 2006, 09:26 PM
I assume the woman has bruises and some traces of spit on her face as proof of the attack. If that's the case, then the bus driver is truly an idiot for trying to deny the incident happened.
I was thinking the same thing. The bruises should've been an indication.

Pureracket
Dec 19th, 2006, 09:32 PM
This reminds me so much of the Rosa Parks episode during the American Civil Rights movement.

mykarma
Dec 19th, 2006, 09:37 PM
http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19


Woman beaten on Jerusalem bus for refusing to move to rear seat http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif By Daphna Berman (daphnab@haaretz.co.il) http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif

A woman who reported a vicious attack by an ad-hoc "modesty patrol" on a Jerusalem bus last month is now lining up support for her case and may be included in a petition to the High Court of Justice over the legality of sex-segregated buses.

Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus. She is now in touch with several legal advocacy and women's organizations, and at the same time, waiting for the police to apprehend her attackers.

In her first interview since the incident, Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women. The bus driver, in response to a media inquiry, denied that violence was used against her, but Shear's account has been substantiated by an unrelated eyewitness on the bus who confirmed that she sustained an unprovoked "severe beating."


http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif

Shear, an American-Israeli woman who currently lives in Canada, says that on a recent five-week vacation to Israel, she rode the bus daily to the Old City to pray at sunrise. Though not defined by Egged as a sex-segregated "mehadrin" bus, women usually sit in the back, while men sit in the front, as a matter of custom.

"Every two or three days, someone would tell me to sit in the back, sometimes politely and sometimes not," she recalled this week in a telephone interview. "I was always polite and said 'No. This is not a synagogue. I am not going to sit in the back.'"

But Shear, a 50-year-old religious woman, says that on the morning of the 24th, a man got onto the bus and demanded her seat - even though there were a number of other seats available in the front of the bus.

"I said, I'm not moving and he said, 'I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.' Then he spat in my face and at that point, I was in high adrenaline mode and called him a son-of-a-bitch, which I am not proud of. Then I spat back. At that point, he pushed me down and people on the bus were screaming that I was crazy. Four men surrounded me and slapped my face, punched me in the chest, pulled at my clothes, beat me, kicked me. My snood [hair covering] came off. I was fighting back and kicked one of the men in his privates. I will never forget the look on his face."

Shear says that when she bent down in the aisle to retrieve her hair covering, "one of the men kicked me in the face. Thank God he missed my eye. I got up and punched him. I said, 'I want my hair covering back' but he wouldn't give it to me, so I took his black hat and threw it in the aisle."

'Stupid American'

Throughout the encounter, Shear says the bus driver "did nothing." The other passengers, she says, blamed her for not moving to the back of the bus and called her a "stupid American with no sechel [common sense.] People blamed me for not knowing my place and not going to the back of the bus where I belong."

According to Yehoshua Meyer, the eyewitness to the incident, Shear's account is entirely accurate. "I saw everything," he said. "Someone got on the bus and demanded that she go to the back, but she didn't agree. She was badly beaten and her whole body sustained hits and kicks. She tried to fight back and no one would help her. I tried to help, but someone was stopping me from getting up. My phone's battery was dead, so I couldn't call the police. I yelled for the bus driver to stop. He stopped once, but he didn't do anything. When we finally got to the Kotel [Western Wall], she was beaten badly and I helped her go to the police."

Shear says that when she first started riding the No. 2 line, she did not even know that it was sometimes sex-segregated. She also says that sitting in the front is simply more comfortable. "I'm a 50-year-old woman and I don't like to sit in the back. I'm dressed appropriately and I was on a public bus."

"It is very dangerous for a group of people to take control over a public entity and enforce their will without going through due process," she said. "Even if they [Haredim who want a segregated bus] are a majority - and I don't think they are - they have options available. They can petition Egged or hire their own private line. But as long as it's a public bus, I don't care if there are 500 people telling me where to sit. I can sit wherever I want and so can anyone else."

Meyer says that throughout the incident, the other passengers blamed Shear for not sitting in the back. "They'll probably claim that she attacked them first, but that's totally untrue. She was abused terribly, and I've never seen anything like it."

Word of Shear's story traveled quickly after she forwarded an e-mail detailing her experience. She has been contacted by a number of groups, including Shatil, the New Israel Fund's Empowerment and Training Center for Social Change; Kolech, a religious women's forum; the Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC), the legal advocacy arm of the local Reform movement; and the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance (JOFA).

In the coming month, IRAC will be submitting a petition to the High Court of Justice against the Transportation Ministry over the issue of segregated Egged buses. IRAC attorney Orly Erez-Likhovski is in touch with Shear and is considering including her in the petition.

Although the No. 2 Jerusalem bus where the incident occurred is not actually defined as a mehadrin line, Erez-Likhovski says that Shear's story is further proof that the issue requires legal clarification. About 30 Egged buses are designated as mehadrin, mostly on inter-city lines, but they are not marked to indicate this. "There's no way to identify a mehadrin bus, which in itself is a problem," she said.

"Theoretically, a person can sit wherever they want, even on a mehadrin line, but we're seeing that people are enforcing [the gender segregation] even on non-mehadrin lines and that's the part of the danger," she said.

On a mehadrin bus, women enter and exit through the rear door, and the seats from the rear door back are generally considered the "women's section." A child is usually sent forward to pay the driver.

The official responses

In a response from Egged, the bus driver denied that Shear was physically attacked in any way.

"In a thorough inquiry that we conducted, we found that the bus driver does not confirm that any violence was used against the complainant," Egged spokesman Ron Ratner wrote.

"According to the driver, once he saw that there was a crowd gathering around her, he stopped the bus and went to check what was going on. He clarified to the passengers that the bus was not a mehadrin line and that all passengers on the line are permitted to sit wherever they want on the bus. After making sure that the passengers returned to their seats, he continued driving."

The Egged response also noted that their drivers "are not able and are not authorized to supervise the behavior of the passengers in all situations."

Ministry of Transportation spokesperson Avner Ovadia said in response that the mehadrin lines are "the result of agreements reached between Egged and Haredi bodies" and are therefore unconnected to the ministry.

A spokesperson for the Jerusalem police said the case is still under investigation.
This is totally disgusting. :fiery: I'm sure that Saml will find some reasonable excuse for this.

Infiniti2001
Dec 19th, 2006, 10:32 PM
"I said, I'm not moving and he said, 'I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.' Then he spat in my face and at that point, I was in high adrenaline mode and called him a son-of-a-bitch, which I am not proud of. Then I spat back. At that point, he pushed me down and people on the bus were screaming that I was crazy. Four men surrounded me and slapped my face, punched me in the chest, pulled at my clothes, beat me, kicked me. My snood [hair covering] came off. I was fighting back and kicked one of the men in his privates:lol: I will never forget the look on his face."

Shear says that when she bent down in the aisle to retrieve her hair covering, "one of the men kicked me in the face. Thank God he missed my eye. I got up and punched him. I said, 'I want my hair covering back' but he wouldn't give it to me, so I took his black hat and threw it in the aisle."

The incident is disgusting---I so despise men who treat women like 2nd class citizens :fiery: Meanwhile, I am very proud of this woman for fighting back ... Hope the groin kick was hard enough for him to remember :mad:

Qrystyna
Dec 19th, 2006, 10:33 PM
Hmmmm I thought only muslims supposedly did this :rolleyes:

hablo
Dec 19th, 2006, 10:37 PM
That woman has some guts for fighting back ! :worship:

mykarma
Dec 19th, 2006, 10:42 PM
Hmmmm I thought only muslims supposedly did this :rolleyes:
My sentiments exactly.

kiwifan
Dec 19th, 2006, 11:23 PM
This reminds me so much of the Rosa Parks episode during the American Civil Rights movement.

The incident is disgusting---I so despise men who treat women like 2nd class citizens :fiery: Meanwhile, I am very proud of this woman for fighting back ... Hope the groin kick was hard enough for him to remember :mad:


:worship:

!<blocparty>!
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:05 AM
I wonder how often shit like this happens over there, and what would be happening had she not been from the West.

Couver
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:41 AM
This is totally disgusting. :fiery: I'm sure that Saml will find some reasonable excuse for this.

He probably won't read it. I think he just looks for articles that are in line with what he believes and then pretends nothing else exists outside of his close minded world. That or he'll spin it and somehow find away to blame Muslims and Islam.

As for the article, that's terrible. I just can't understand why people just can't treat one another with some respect. Yes as a species we can be annoying and get on each others nerves. But to disrespect another living human being like this is truly shameful.

Wigglytuff
Dec 20th, 2006, 04:05 AM
this is fucking sick. what what kind of sub human monster beats up an old lady for a seat on a bus that is full of seats??

i hope that some major ill befalls the sub human monsters who beat up this old lady and to the equally sub human monsters who sat and watched. i would be nice if this woman got to see justice but since that doesnt seem possible. i just hope the pricks who did this are struck by lighting, killed by boars, or otherwise forced by the universe to suffer some major ill.

njnetswill
Dec 20th, 2006, 04:09 AM
It's Rosa Parksteinman! :hearts:

Wigglytuff
Dec 20th, 2006, 04:31 AM
It's Rosa Parksteinman! :hearts:

:lol: :lol: :tape: :tape: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:29 AM
Firstly this type of gender segregation doesn't happen all over Israel. I'm sure people from Israel can confirm and talk about this more. This happened in a neighbourhood that has Orthodox Jews and actually asks people to wear modest clothes etc...

Secondly,

"Every two or three days, someone would tell me to sit in the back, sometimes politely and sometimes not," she recalled this week in a telephone interview. "I was always polite and said 'No. This is not a synagogue. I am not going to sit in the back.'"

This isn't her first time on the bus, she's ridden it before like she said here. Knowing the rules, why would she provoke them by sitting at the front? :confused:

Thirdly, as terrible and unfortunate as this incident is, please find me other incidences like this in Israel. At least up to 200 women aren't killing themselves by lighting themselves in petrol like in some Islamic countries. Funny, I saw none of you comment in that thread.

Finally, this is no Rosa Parks. The cause of the problem lies with gender segregation due to strict religious adherance. Rosa Parks case was pure racial discrimination. Unless, if you guys want to trivialize the Rosa Parks case by saying that it was just because she didn't adhere to established rules that she should've. :lol:

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:31 AM
This isn't her first time on the bus, she's ridden it before like she said here. Knowing the rules, why would she provoke them by sitting at the front? :confused:


She doesn't have to sit in the back if she doesn't want to :rolleyes: Israel is supposed to be a free country. Knew you'd spin it around though! I bet if this happened in a muslim country, you'd react the same way, claiming it to be "religious adherence"............ yeah right :lol:

kiwifan
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:32 AM
actually she knew the rules and followed them correctly. ;)

www.rif.org :angel:

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:36 AM
She doesn't have to sit in the back if she doesn't want to :rolleyes: Israel is supposed to be a free country. Knew you'd spin it around though! I bet if this happened in a muslim country, you'd react the same way... yeah right, I can see through you :lol:

So what are you saying that this happens ALL over Israel? This is one incident in one orthodox neighbourhood. Please find me other cases and then we'll talk.

Aren't you the one who's quick to use the excuse "not all muslims are like that"?

So you're saying all Israelis are like that?

Israel also has people who breaks the law. So you're going to judge a country from those few that broke the law?

Hypocrite.

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:39 AM
So what are you saying that this happens ALL over Israel? This is one incident in one orthodox neighbourhood. Please find me other cases and then we'll talk.

Aren't you the one who's quick to use the excuse "not all muslims are like that"?

So you're saying all Israelis are like that?

Israel also has people who breaks the law. So you're going to judge a country from those few that broke the law?

Hypocrite.

No, I'm not the one saying anything, just pointing out that you're a hypocrite, once again. Hypocritial of you to call me one of those, by the way. :wavey:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2623/ohmyxg3.jpg

Thanks for that! :lol: It only serves to remind that you are, once again, a hypocrite, considering your racism against muslims.

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:51 AM
No, I'm not the one saying anything, just pointing out that you're a hypocrite, once again.

No you did say something. You said, "Israel is supposed to be a free country".

So you took this ONE incident and applied it to all of Israel. So you were generalizing. Yes or no?

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:55 AM
No you did say something. You said, "Israel is supposed to be a free country".

So you took this ONE incident and applied it to all of Israel. So you were generalizing. Yes or no?

Yes, I was generalizing (in a sarcastic tone) like you do about the muslims. I know if it had happened in a muslim country you'd be all over it.

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:10 AM
If she's accepting segregation in synagogues and at the Wailing wall why is she not accepting segregation on a bus on her way there?

And that goes for some people in here who are against segregation, are you going to criticize synagogues and the wailing wall too? :rolleyes:

BTW, she was granted citizenship because she was Jewish, officially she's still a tourist there. Shouldn't she have respected local customs first and foremost?

The violence is inexcusable (but guess what like you guys often like to expose there's police/authoritarian brutality everywhere) but she could've avoided this fate.

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:14 AM
And BTW this is Illegal in Israel that's why she's going to the police to demand justice and going to the courts.

What's the difference between this and a black woman been beaten up in the USA right now? They will be both demand justice and hopefully they will get it.

Unfortunately that's not the case for some muslim women in some Islamic countries.

Couver
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:33 AM
So what are you saying that this happens ALL over Israel? This is one incident in one orthodox neighbourhood. Please find me other cases and then we'll talk.

Aren't you the one who's quick to use the excuse "not all muslims are like that"?

So you're saying all Israelis are like that?

Israel also has people who breaks the law. So you're going to judge a country from those few that broke the law?

Hypocrite.

Hypocrite? That's rich coming from you. How do you ignore even your own logic? Only a week ago you were calling for the death of every man, woman, and child in Iran, wishing you could blow them up. So when the minority in the wrong are Muslim it's ok to paint all Muslims in a negative light by your logic? But if any other religion does it then far be it for anyone to follow your example. Though just broad generalisations are wrong regardless.

I hope I see every person in Jerusalem speak out against this. Again taking a page out of Sam's book, if all the people in Jerusalem stay silent then they are all to blame. I mean every Muslim must stand up against anything bad the crackpots in their religion do according to Sam. So I would hope you expect the same for the people here. But of course they aren't Islamic so I know you don't. :rolleyes:

Wigglytuff
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:34 AM
actually she knew the rules and followed them correctly. ;)

www.rif.org :angel:

fundamental yes. but people on this board are not very good at it. we see it in just about any thread about just about anything.

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:40 AM
Hypocrite? That's rich coming from you. How do you ignore even your own logic? Only a week ago you were calling for the death of every man, woman, and child in Iran, wishing you could blow them up. So when the minority in the wrong are Muslim it's ok to paint all Muslims in a negative light by your logic? But if any other religion does it then far be it for anyone to follow your example. Though just broad generalisations are wrong regardless.

I hope I see every person in Jerusalem speak out against this. Again taking a page out of Sam's book, if all the people in Jerusalem stay silent then they are all to blame. I mean every Muslim must stand up against anything bad the crackpots in their religion do according to Sam. So I would hope you expect the same for the people here. But of course they aren't Islamic so I know you don't. :rolleyes:

Spewing ludicrous comparisons. How do you get off comparing what I'm condemning which is terrorism like on the scale of 9/11 to this?

This is just like any crime that could've been happening in the US streets. "Three white supremists attack a black woman" for example.

No not every person in Jerusalem needs to speak out about this, this is a crime done to one person. This isn't terrorism and massive scale of death across the world in the name of a religion. :confused:

"Sluggy"
Dec 20th, 2006, 08:03 AM
Your analysis is spot on SamL. That is absolutely the plain truth. Imagine i go to a mosque but refuse to take off my shoes. I know that in mosques you need to take off your shoes, but i dont. The mosque didnt pick me up, I went there, and i know the rules. In modern legal systems, most countries have concepts that basically state that you should abide by the norms of the society you are living in. She knew the rules, and she disobeyed them. Now we all agree that violence is a bad thing, but she did know the rules, she could go live a secular life in most places in Israel and run around doing just about whatever she wants. But she was probably looking to buck the system. Another example is that on public buses, the front seats are priority seats for the elderly, handicapped and pregnant women. so .... if the bus driver tells you to vacate the seat, you are supposed to, it is the law. If the woman in question were from another country where people don't know the rules, then her behaviour is more understandable, but that was not the case, her behaviour was offensive. It is much like the Amish, if you go and live with them, you need to abide by the rules.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:36 PM
She doesn't have to sit in the back if she doesn't want to :rolleyes: Israel is supposed to be a free country. Knew you'd spin it around though! I bet if this happened in a muslim country, you'd react the same way, claiming it to be "religious adherence"............ yeah right :lol:
Saml is so transparent it's pathetic. :lol: He gave me a bad rep and called me an idiot:haha::haha::haha: because I posted exactly what he would do. Yep, came in here with some lame explanation of why the woman knew the rules. What's even more amazing is that he said the women knew her place.

Imagine that narrow minded, racist thinking that anyone would care that he called them an idiot, or gave them a bad rep. Thanks Saml, I needed a laugh. :lol::lol::lol:

roarke
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:38 PM
This reminds me so much of the Rosa Parks episode during the American Civil Rights movement.

One glaring difference between the two... These are her own people beating her. However, the descriminatory overtones are the same ........

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:39 PM
He probably won't read it. I think he just looks for articles that are in line with what he believes and then pretends nothing else exists outside of his close minded world. That or he'll spin it and somehow find away to blame Muslims and Islam.

As for the article, that's terrible. I just can't understand why people just can't treat one another with some respect. Yes as a species we can be annoying and get on each others nerves. But to disrespect another living human being like this is truly shameful.
Didn't I tell you that Saml would come in here with some nonsense. You owe me a good rep. :lol::lol::lol:

Infiniti2001
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:40 PM
Firstly this type of gender segregation doesn't happen all over Israel. I'm sure people from Israel can confirm and talk about this more. This happened in a neighbourhood that has Orthodox Jews and actually asks people to wear modest clothes etc...

Secondly,



This isn't her first time on the bus, she's ridden it before like she said here. Knowing the rules, why would she provoke them by sitting at the front? :confused:

Thirdly, as terrible and unfortunate as this incident is, please find me other incidences like this in Israel. At least up to 200 women aren't killing themselves by lighting themselves in petrol like in some Islamic countries. Funny, I saw none of you comment in that thread.

Finally, this is no Rosa Parks. The cause of the problem lies with gender segregation due to strict religious adherance. Rosa Parks case was pure racial discrimination. Unless, if you guys want to trivialize the Rosa Parks case by saying that it was just because she didn't adhere to established rules that she should've. :lol:

I knew you were fucked up, but didn't know to what extent :rolleyes: :help:

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:43 PM
Hypocrite? That's rich coming from you. How do you ignore even your own logic? Only a week ago you were calling for the death of every man, woman, and child in Iran, wishing you could blow them up. So when the minority in the wrong are Muslim it's ok to paint all Muslims in a negative light by your logic? But if any other religion does it then far be it for anyone to follow your example. Though just broad generalisations are wrong regardless.

I hope I see every person in Jerusalem speak out against this. Again taking a page out of Sam's book, if all the people in Jerusalem stay silent then they are all to blame. I mean every Muslim must stand up against anything bad the crackpots in their religion do according to Sam. So I would hope you expect the same for the people here. But of course they aren't Islamic so I know you don't. :rolleyes:
:worship::worship::worship:

Asif_Nawaz
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:45 PM
So what are you saying that this happens ALL over Israel? This is one incident in one orthodox neighbourhood. Please find me other cases and then we'll talk.

Aren't you the one who's quick to use the excuse "not all muslims are like that"?

So you're saying all Israelis are like that?

Israel also has people who breaks the law. So you're going to judge a country from those few that broke the law?

Hypocrite.

look who's talking!Sorry, but your'e the one who's so quick to bash ALL Muslimsand now your'e calling others hypocrites?Typical. pfff.

CooCooCachoo
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:50 PM
It's Rosa Parksteinman! :hearts:

:rolls:

Sad story :sad: And that in 2006.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:53 PM
I knew you were fucked up, but didn't know to what extent :rolleyes: :help:
He really is fucked up but what's so scary is he's still young. :sad:

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 12:56 PM
No you did say something. You said, "Israel is supposed to be a free country".

So you took this ONE incident and applied it to all of Israel. So you were generalizing. Yes or no?
Stop pm'ing me. There is no way in hell I'm going to read your pm's.

Lord Nelson
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:12 PM
I read the article. I agree that the rules are archaic but it is clear that the woman was looking for trouble. She was always sitting at the front which shows that she was preparing herself for confrontation. I am not even sure she is religious. Maybe she was posing as a religious person.
Again having said that the rules should be banned. The women should not have to sit only at the back. Another religion group is an expert in this domain. Lets not copy it.

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:18 PM
:worship::worship::worship:

I second that for luna_moonstone! :kiss:

Pureracket
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:19 PM
One glaring difference between the two... These are her own people beating her. However, the descriminatory overtones are the same ........Well, in a way, it's the same. When you say "own people", you're talking about Jewish people, and that's a religion, right? I'm sure Rosa shared the same religion as her oppressors as well.

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:22 PM
Stop pm'ing me. There is no way in hell I'm going to read your pm's.

He did the same to me, guess we touched a nerve ;)

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:27 PM
Well, in a way, it's the same. When you say "own people", you're talking about Jewish people, and that's a religion, right? I'm sure Rosa shared the same religion as her oppressors as well.

Way to spin it. :tape:

Next time there's a racism against African Americans thread I'll be sure to bring this up. "Own people".

Pureracket
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:36 PM
Way to spin it. :tape:

Next time there's a racism against African Americans thread I'll be sure to bring this up. "Own people".
How is this spin? In a situation dealing with the woman on the bus in this thread, race has nothing to do with it.

Regardless of religion, race, or gender, it seems that people will play on the ability to discriminate.

The situation on the bus is not an issue of racism. It has to do with gender and religion, though.

roarke
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:36 PM
Well, in a way, it's the same. When you say "own people", you're talking about Jewish people, and that's a religion, right? I'm sure Rosa shared the same religion as her oppressors as well.

NO I mean....... it was Jewish people that beat a Jewish woman. The Rosa reference - white (mostly godless christians) were beating black people. Therein lies the distinction.

By the way, most Jewish people refer to themselves as Jewish both in faith and race. No need for semantics.

Infiniti2001
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:38 PM
I read the article. I agree that the rules are archaic but it is clear that the woman was looking for trouble. She was always sitting at the front which shows that she was preparing herself for confrontation. I am not even sure she is religious. Maybe she was posing as a religious person.
Again having said that the rules should be banned. The women should not have to sit only at the back. Another religion group is an expert in this domain. Lets not copy it.

The sad thing is that it's much closer to that other religious group than many know.:help: Did you know that men are women are separated in the synagoug?

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:38 PM
How is this spin? In a situation dealing with the woman on the bus in this thread, race has nothing to do with it.

Regardless of religion, race, or gender, it seems that people will play on the ability to discriminate.

The situation on the bus is not an issue of racism. It has to do with gender and religion, though.
Yes I agree but I'm talking about your "own people" comment. You said the Rosa Parks situation is the same, and roarke said correctly it's not the same.

This woman did face discrimination from her own people on religious grounds.

Rosa Parks faced discrimination from people that were NOT her own people because the discrimination was not on religious grounds (the fact that they were all Christians didn't matter) but on racial grounds.

So it is different, like roarke said.

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:39 PM
The sad thing is that it's much closer to that other religious group than many know.:help: Did you know that men are women are separated in the synagoug?
With one big difference, no terrorism.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:41 PM
I read the article. I agree that the rules are archaic but it is clear that the woman was looking for trouble. She was always sitting at the front which shows that she was preparing herself for confrontation. I am not even sure she is religious. Maybe she was posing as a religious person.
Again having said that the rules should be banned. The women should not have to sit only at the back. Another religion group is an expert in this domain. Lets not copy it.
Lord Nelson, this was a public bus, plus their were available seats in the front of the bus. Why does she have to be looking for trouble when she said she was more comfortable sitting in the front? Perhaps you feel that way because of your culture. Not only are women second class citizens but the caste system all though not legal, is still practiced there.

I find it interesting how the victim is being blamed here. This woman was beat by grown men on their way to Synagoge. How ironic is that. As far as another religious group being an expert, these fundamentalist are no different except he appears to be a well kept secret.

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:45 PM
Lord Nelson, this was a public bus, plus their were available seats in the front of the bus. Why does she have to be looking for trouble when she said she was more comfortable sitting in the front? Perhaps you feel that way because of your culture. Not only are women second class citizens but the caste system all though not legal, is still practiced there.

I find it interesting how the victim is being blamed here. This woman was beat by grown men on their way to Synagoge. How ironic is that. As far as another religious group being an expert, these fundamentalist are no different except he appears to be a well kept secret.
This is NOT a public bus. There are many other buses that are running. This is a bus with well known customs and generally accepted rules. NOT all buses in Israel are like this. Women are not second class citizens in Israel. Please go and get yourself educated first.

"Sluggy"
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:51 PM
This is NOT a public bus. There are many other buses that are running. This is a bus with well known customs and generally accepted rules. NOT all buses in Israel are like this. Women are not second class citizens in Israel. Please go and get yourself educated first.

Like Sam said, nobody made her take the bus. It came as no surprise that those are the rules. NOw... she is not forced to pracitice this form of judaism, she could leave the congregation and just live a secular life, and nobody would be coming after her. Imagine going to a school and cutting the line at the cafteria - just going to the front and passing by everyone. It is against the rules. She knew the rules, she didnt obey them and she got punished. Im not saying the punishment wasn't too harsh, im only saying it wasnt state sponsored and she disobeyed the laws of HER community.

Lord Nelson
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:55 PM
Lord Nelson, this was a public bus, plus their were available seats in the front of the bus. Why does she have to be looking for trouble when she said she was more comfortable sitting in the front? Perhaps you feel that way because of your culture. Not only are women second class citizens but the caste system all though not legal, is still practiced there.

I find it interesting how the victim is being blamed here. This woman was beat by grown men on their way to Synagoge. How ironic is that. As far as another religious group being an expert, these fundamentalist are no different except he appears to be a well kept secret.
I am a Christian and not a Hindu but I do agree with you on the caste system. Unfortunately the religious groups don't want to change anything. They don't realize that many of the dalits don't like being cnsidered inferior and convert to other groups. The constiution of India does stipulate that all groups are equal.

The samething can be said with all groups including Chrisitanity and Buddhism. I know that the next Dalai lama has in Tibetan Buddhism has to be a child. I think that this rule is dangerous and child risks being kidnapped by Chinese. He also won't be a leader until he is a grown man. So Tibetans will have a temporary leader and no one know if next Dalai Lama will be effective or not. Tibetan elders should elect the next Dalai Lama instead and he should be an adult. Christianity also has its flaws. No religion i sperfect though atheism is not perfect either. I prefer agnostism to atheism.

The woman will not have the rule changed. In the U.S. and in parts of Israel this will be news but it will not affect what is going on in Jerusalem. So she is wasting her energy.

"Sluggy"
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:56 PM
I read the article. I agree that the rules are archaic but it is clear that the woman was looking for trouble. She was always sitting at the front which shows that she was preparing herself for confrontation. I am not even sure she is religious. Maybe she was posing as a religious person.

Yes, she was surely looking for trouble. It easily could have been an interest group, ie, feminists, homosexual, socialist, or even far right group that paid her to take a stand against this group of Jews. What people do in their own communities is by and large their own business so long as people are free to live if they wish. I think that is the legal concept called "imminent domain". now, if this was the rule for all public buses, most Israelis would either protest or live Israel! obviously that is not the case. Orthodox Judiasm has only still Male Rabbis. Some women dont like it, but those are the rules. similar protest have occured to combat what is perceived as sexism since women cant be rabbis. Well men cant be mothers, so in my view, im just as happy not to have to talk to a femal rabbi about my problems and just prefer it to stay the traditional way. of coruse, that's just my own opinion, and it wont be popular here.

Again having said that the rules should be banned. The women should not have to sit only at the back. Another religion group is an expert in this domain. Lets not copy it.

I dont think so. I think we should mind our business. The amish do things their own way so Jews should be able to as well.

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Like Sam said, nobody made her take the bus. It came as no surprise that those are the rules. NOw... she is not forced to pracitice this form of judaism, she could leave the congregation and just live a secular life, and nobody would be coming after her. Imagine going to a school and cutting the line at the cafteria - just going to the front and passing by everyone. It is against the rules. She knew the rules, she didnt obey them and she got punished. Im not saying the punishment wasn't too harsh, im only saying it wasnt state sponsored and she disobeyed the laws of HER community.
Hey Sluggy, thanks for the comments. ;) Don't worry some of them are pissed at me because of the comments I made in ancient Egypt/black Jesus threads :haha:, some of them are pissed at me because I support the war on Iraq, some of them just hating on the bandwagon of anti-Israel sentiment (they don't care about this one woman) and some of them will always fight for the victim no matter what (like Wigglytuff for example is someone I've fought a lot but I admire her fight for the underdog or the victim always).

Yes this woman is a victim because they went too far and it's assault. This assault is NOT state sponsored and Israeli authorities will reprimand in due time.

This isn't a big issue, but some people like to make it because of their hidden agenda.

James
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:00 PM
Like Sam said, nobody made her take the bus. It came as no surprise that those are the rules. NOw... she is not forced to pracitice this form of judaism, she could leave the congregation and just live a secular life, and nobody would be coming after her. Imagine going to a school and cutting the line at the cafteria - just going to the front and passing by everyone. It is against the rules. She knew the rules, she didnt obey them and she got punished. Im not saying the punishment wasn't too harsh, im only saying it wasnt state sponsored and she disobeyed the laws of HER community.

It's positive to see at least someone dares to hold her position against gender discrimination. It is not that relevant what kind of bus or community it was in.

Infiniti2001
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:02 PM
With one big difference, no terrorism.

okay, whatever!

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:03 PM
He did the same to me, guess we touched a nerve ;)
I think we did. :lol:

Infiniti2001
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:08 PM
This is NOT a public bus. There are many other buses that are running. This is a bus with well known customs and generally accepted rules. NOT all buses in Israel are like this. Women are not second class citizens in Israel. Please go and get yourself educated first.

what rubbish!! Quit with making excuses :mad: Rules are meant to be broken. This may not be a nationwide practice, but it sure appears this way when women are forced to sit in the back of the bus, and fucktards beat them up for not obeying :rolleyes:

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:12 PM
what rubbish!! Quit with making excuses :mad: Rules are meant to be broken. This may not be a nationwide practice, but it sure appears this way when women are forced to sit in the back of the bus, and fucktards beat them up for not obeying :rolleyes:

Them? There was only one that got beat. Please find me the others.

Like I said there are people here who wants to make a bigger issue out of this than necessary because of their own hate and agenda.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:16 PM
This is NOT a public bus. There are many other buses that are running. This is a bus with well known customs and generally accepted rules. NOT all buses in Israel are like this. Women are not second class citizens in Israel. Please go and get yourself educated first.
"It is very dangerous for a group of people to take control over a public entity and enforce their will without going through due process," she said. "Even if they [Haredim who want a segregated bus] are a majority - and I don't think they are - they have options available. They can petition Egged or hire their own private line. But as long as it's a public bus, I don't care if there are 500 people telling me where to sit. I can sit wherever I want and so can anyone else."

If you get your ass kicked for sitting in the front of the bus, you're a second class citizen.

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:22 PM
"It is very dangerous for a group of people to take control over a public entity and enforce their will without going through due process," she said. "Even if they [Haredim who want a segregated bus] are a majority - and I don't think they are - they have options available. They can petition Egged or hire their own private line. But as long as it's a public bus, I don't care if there are 500 people telling me where to sit. I can sit wherever I want and so can anyone else."

If you get your ass kicked for sitting in the front of the bus, you're a second class citizen.

Ok but can we wait for something like this to happen to MORE than one person before we pass judgement? Can we agree on that at least?

I promise you if even another woman gets beat up, I'll agree with you. That's a promise.

But one. I don't know. It's a crime, an unfortunate crime.

RonnieO'Sullivan
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:23 PM
they have to shoot them dead one by one (those guys, not the jews)

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:23 PM
The one thing that I've found here in this thread and elsewhere is that people are far less forgiving of Jews. I guess some things never change.

Infiniti2001
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:26 PM
Them? There was only one that got beat. Please find me the others.

Like I said there are people here who wants to make a bigger issue out of this than necessary because of their own hate and agenda.

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4946/0900631b80fa0bc3mtifoz2.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4946/0900631b80fa0bc3mtifoz2.jpg
:help:

James
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:28 PM
Ok but can we wait for something like this to happen to MORE than one person before we pass judgement? Can we agree on that at least?

I promise you if even another woman gets beat up, I'll agree with you. That's a promise.

But one. I don't know. It's a crime, an unfortunate crime.

Let's not focus too much on the specific incident. This is simply a form of gender discrimination and those type incidents happen only too frequently all around the world unfortunately (in whatever form).

RonnieO'Sullivan
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:29 PM
The one thing that I've found here in this thread and elsewhere is that people are far less forgiving of Jews. I guess some things never change.

even if it were 5 pinguins , this is still far over the line

"Sluggy"
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:30 PM
Hey Sluggy, thanks for the comments. ;) Don't worry some of them are pissed at me because of the comments I made in ancient Egypt/black Jesus threads :haha:, some of them are pissed at me because I support the war on Iraq, some of them just hating on the bandwagon of anti-Israel sentiment (they don't care about this one woman) and some of them will always fight for the victim no matter what (like Wigglytuff for example is someone I've fought a lot but I admire her fight for the underdog or the victim always).

yes, there are a lot of bandwagon anti-israel sentiment. Many of these people will become less viscious against Israel as they grow older, and many of them who criticize Israel are Jews themselves but deny it. Remember Jews can have Asiatic, African, European and other features and dont look jewish, but are still of jewish ancestry. I stayed out of the egypt thread. I disagree with you i think, Jesus could easily have been a watered down Nubian, take a look at the Jews of France. Most are much darker than I, and I'm guessing (havent done the reasearch) that the lighter skinned jews tended to come to America, and many darker Jews stayed in North Africa where they wouldnt be segregated by society. anyway, i know that one was off topic.

Yes this woman is a victim because they went too far and it's assault. This assault is NOT state sponsored and Israeli authorities will reprimand in due time.

I'm not entirely sure they went too far, we weren't there. If my son hits his sister too much, he knows he's gonna catch hell. He's not supposed to breakt he rules. AND, assault is defined as an aggressive gesture that with a good degree of certainty will result in an aggressive contact with another person. What the men did here is BATTERY, that is when you actually strike a person. They battered her, they also assaulted her, but they didnt just assault her. just wanted to clear up the terminology, sorry for lecturing what i remember about 1st year law school.

OH YEAH, and POWER TO THE PEOPLE, DOWN WITH THE STATE!

Infiniti2001
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:32 PM
The one thing that I've found here in this thread and elsewhere is that people are far less forgiving of Jews. I guess some things never change.

You just don't get it, do you? It's not about forgiveness for Jews. You're being called on for your hypocrisy :help:

"Sluggy"
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:33 PM
The one thing that I've found here in this thread and elsewhere is that people are far less forgiving of Jews. I guess some things never change.

Yes, I have grown far more sensitive to antisemitism since moving to europe and reading posts on the internet. You cant harsh on asians, or Africans or Germans, but you can always cut out THE MIDDLEMAN. The middleman is the Jew. he is unecessary in the eyes of so many, and the true cause of most of the worlds wars. I myself have even been forced to ask myself if this is true. R Jews the chosen people, did we help shape what humanity is today? or would the rest of humanity gotten along just fine without us? for many the simple answer is i think if we dont know you are Jewish all the better, just dont act jewish, dont perform any rituals and dont remind us of anything that is Jewish and we might let you live.

"Sluggy"
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:33 PM
they have to shoot them dead one by one


Who, the guys that battered the woman? or all Jews.

RonnieO'Sullivan
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:35 PM
Who, the guys that battered the woman? or all Jews.

those guys of course :eek:

and any other people in the world who do this
they don't deserve to life
they are a danger to everyone

"Sluggy"
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:39 PM
those guys of course :eek:

and any other people in the world who do this
they don't deserve to life
they are a danger to everyone

I dont really understand it? How does this differ from the signs on most public buses that ask you to leave priority seating to the handicapped, elderly and pregnant women? What if someone refused to give up a seat? the police come and force the person to move. I say BURN THE WITCH. how dare she make that kind of statement. She's probably been paid off by leftist fringe groups. Ive seen funny stuff B4, in the train, during strikes, probably the French Train Union paying some annoying person to piss everyone off. Funny, "sluggy" pisses everyone off for free :lol:

RonnieO'Sullivan
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:42 PM
I dont really understand it? How does this differ from the signs on most public buses that ask you to leave priority seating to the handicapped, elderly and pregnant women? What if someone refused to give up a seat? the police come and force the person to move. I say BURN THE WITCH. how dare she make that kind of statement. She's probably been paid off by leftist fringe groups. Ive seen funny stuff B4, in the train, during strikes, probably the French Train Union paying some annoying person to piss everyone off. Funny, "sluggy" pisses everyone off for free :lol:

you aren't better then anyone of them if you post things like this

never heart of human rights ?

James
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:45 PM
I dont really understand it? How does this differ from the signs on most public buses that ask you to leave priority seating to the handicapped, elderly and pregnant women? What if someone refused to give up a seat? the police come and force the person to move. I say BURN THE WITCH. how dare she make that kind of statement. She's probably been paid off by leftist fringe groups. Ive seen funny stuff B4, in the train, during strikes, probably the French Train Union paying some annoying person to piss everyone off. Funny, "sluggy" pisses everyone off for free :lol:

It's pretty easy to understand, Sluggy. Basically when you are on a bus you can go and sit where you like. The groups mentioned are not all that mobile, so it is common courtesy to let them have a seat when the bus is crowded. And there are always people who refuse to do so. Not a very friendly thing to do, but we don't beat up people for that.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:50 PM
Ok but can we wait for something like this to happen to MORE than one person before we pass judgement? Can we agree on that at least?

I promise you if even another woman gets beat up, I'll agree with you. That's a promise.

But one. I don't know. It's a crime, an unfortunate crime.
Saml, first of all, thank you for the olive branch on this topic. However, how do we know that it hasn't happened before. The only reason we know about this one is because the lady was American and the article hit the news.

Secondly, as you can tell from the reactions of the other passengers on the bus, many think this woman was wrong as many thought Rosa Parks was wrong. Rosa was not the first African American that refused to sit in the back of the bus. She happened to have the education and the looks that made it possible for the boycotts to happen. Many women all over the south did the same thing. I remember my family talking about how my grandmother and her friend did the same thing in N.C. when the bus driver tried to make them move. The story was, that when they got to the station my grandmother and her friend pretended they have knives in their handbag and the driver jumped off the bus and ran in the station. Not that I blamed him because my grandmom didn't play.

Secondly, how many women would have the courage to take a stand as this women did and get beat down. She does not have as much to lose as a women from Israel that was raised in this religion. She doesn't have to worry about the same type of backlash that some of the natives might have to endure from the community or their family.

My point is, just because no one has the courage to stand up won't make the practice anymore right. My main problem is that people are making excuses for a mob of men beating up on a woman. That's just plain sick. I

Joana
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:51 PM
She was on a fucking public buss in a supposedly free and democratic country. End of story, whatever way some want to spin it is just sick. And I'm sure that a few people in this thread were perfectly fine with women being killed in Afghanistan for not wearing burqa. After all, they disobeyed the laws of their community.

"Sluggy"
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:51 PM
It's pretty easy to understand, Sluggy. Basically when you are on a bus you can go and sit where you like. The groups mentioned are not all that mobile, so it is common courtesy to let them have a seat when the bus is crowded. And there are always people who refuse to do so. Not a very friendly thing to do, but we don't beat up people for that.


Oh give me a freaking break james, i admire your diplomacy, you're a good peace-keeper, but this is just fucking bullshit. Someone come around to cock up the system for these Jews. It's similar to going to McDonald's and telling them you want your frenchfries out of the oven but not fried. If you dont like french fries, go roast a potato in the fire wrapped in tin foil.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 02:58 PM
The one thing that I've found here in this thread and elsewhere is that people are far less forgiving of Jews. I guess some things never change.
Saml, with the hate you sprew about Muslims, I know you're not playing the victim here. :tape: Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter what race a person is.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:01 PM
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4946/0900631b80fa0bc3mtifoz2.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4946/0900631b80fa0bc3mtifoz2.jpg
:help:
:lol::lol::lol:

James
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:04 PM
Oh give me a freaking break james, i admire your diplomacy, you're a good peace-keeper, but this is just fucking bullshit. Someone come around to cock up the system for these Jews. It's similar to going to McDonald's and telling them you want your frenchfries out of the oven but not fried. If you dont like french fries, go roast a potato in the fire wrapped in tin foil.

We are talking gender discrimination here, Sluggy. People should fight against that at any given place and time. It has nothing to do which food you prefer, so that comparison is lost on me.

Epigone
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:07 PM
I dont think so. I think we should mind our business. The amish do things their own way so Jews should be able to as well.She was on a fucking public buss in a supposedly free and democratic country. End of story, whatever way some want to spin it is just sick. And I'm sure that a few people in this thread were perfectly fine with women being killed in Afghanistan for not wearing burqa. After all, they disobeyed the laws of their community.They were just doing things their own way, so we should mind our own business ;)

Meteor Shower
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:10 PM
I didn't even know that such buses exists :eek: :confused:
this is very wrong. Of course such people deserve to be hated and locked, I can't really comment about the rules as I am not really interested and know anything about them.

weird that I haven't seen this article in any internet site especially as most of the students in our school has been taught and learned about Rosa Park and there were lots of discussions about it in our school.

What's up with the comparisions to Muslim countries.. we're nothing like that. comparising us to them over a few incidents seems frankly very stupid to me.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:16 PM
I didn't even know that such buses exists :eek: :confused:
this is very wrong. Of course such people deserve to be hated and locked, I can't really comment about the rules as I am not really interested and know anything about them.

weird that I haven't seen this article in any internet site especially as most of the students in our school has been taught and learned about Rosa Park and there were lots of discussions about it in our school.

What's up with the comparisions to Muslim countries.. we're nothing like that. comparising us to them over a few incidents seems frankly very stupid to me.
I think the comparrison to Muslim countries came up because of Saml's bias and hatred of ALL Muslims.

Asif_Nawaz
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:19 PM
I still cant believe that i would ever meet someone as full of hypocrisy and balderash as Sam L.He bitches about Islam, then says" oh, everyone is so mean,they are not nice about Jews, They are such hypocrites, waa waa waaaah!"

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:24 PM
I still cant believe that i would ever meet someone as full of hypocrisy and balderash as Sam L.He bitches about Islam, then says" oh, everyone is so mean,they are not nice about Jews, They are such hypocrites, waa waa waaaah!"
I tried to send you a good rep but it said" you must spread reps ....."

Asif_Nawaz
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:27 PM
its ok!I tried to give you osme as well but it said the same.

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:40 PM
its ok!I tried to give you osme as well but it said the same.

Same here :lol:

moby
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:40 PM
I've a burning question: Are men allowed to sit at the back of the bus?

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 03:44 PM
Same here :lol:
OK. Since we can't give each other a rep, how about a group hug.
:hug::smooch:

alfonsojose
Dec 20th, 2006, 05:19 PM
Are there gay only buses?

Black Mamba.
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:36 PM
As Martin Luther King said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." I usually don't comment on things that happen in other countries but this is wrong no matter how you slice it. You can say that if she had followed the rules it wouldn't have happened to her but America wouldn't be the great country it is if people had that same attitude. Just because something is the law of the land doesn't mean it's right.

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:25 PM
Saml, with the hate you sprew about Muslims, I know you're not playing the victim here. :tape: Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter what race a person is.

Sam should change his name to SPIN DOCTOR. I don't know where any of us have said bad things about jews in other threads - we just made sarcastic comments in this one similar to the ones he makes about muslims on a constant basis, because we know how transparent he is.

King of Prussia
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:29 PM
Hum, Sam L is a moron, but people started complaining about him before he entered the thread. Don't be surprised if he posts crap when people provoke him first.

The_Pov
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:34 PM
Hmmmm I thought only muslims supposedly did this :rolleyes:

:worship: You read my mind totally, I wonder what the Islamaphobes say to this.

James
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:37 PM
Hum, Sam L is a moron, but people started complaining about him before he entered the thread. Don't be surprised if he posts crap when people provoke him first.

I agree with that. Whatever you may think of Sam, he was provoked to answer by those who started to talk about him.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Hum, Sam L is a moron, but people started complaining about him before he entered the thread. Don't be surprised if he posts crap when people provoke him first.
Yes, I said I wonder what excuse Saml would have to say about this issue and he said exactly what I expected. If you want to call that provoking him then so be it. The fact remains that he posted exactly what was expected.

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 08:15 PM
I agree with that. Whatever you may think of Sam, he was provoked to answer by those who started to talk about him.
"I'm sure that Saml will find some reasonable excuse for this." How is that statement provoking?

James
Dec 20th, 2006, 08:19 PM
"I'm sure that Saml will find some reasonable excuse for this." How is that statement provoking?

I did not say provoking, I said that statement probably provoked Sam to reply to this thread. He had not given his opinion of the matter at the time, but you already directed your comment to him.

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 08:53 PM
Yes, I said I wonder what excuse Saml would have to say about this issue and he said exactly what I expected. If you want to call that provoking him then so be it. The fact remains that he posted exactly what was expected.

Yes, he's so transparent that we know EXACTLY how he is going to respond to threads like this.

James
Dec 20th, 2006, 08:58 PM
Yes, he's so transparent that we know EXACTLY how he is going to respond to threads like this.

That might very well be the case, but it is still wiser to ignore a poster, if you disagree so strongly with him. Not every thread has to end up in a flaming war.

Qrystyna
Dec 20th, 2006, 09:01 PM
That might very well be the case, but it is still wiser to ignore a poster, if you disagree so strongly with him. Not every thread has to end up in a flaming war.

Well I agree now and I am starting to do that by not responding to his two self-bumps in another thread he has made :p

mykarma
Dec 20th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Well I agree now and I am starting to do that by not responding to his two self-bumps in another thread he has made :p
:lol::lol::lol:

*JR*
Dec 20th, 2006, 09:18 PM
Religious extremists of any faith tend 2B rather fucked up, its no different here. :shrug:

Meteor Shower
Dec 22nd, 2006, 08:54 AM
sorry to bump the thread.

Religious extremists of any faith tend 2B rather fucked up, its no different here. :shrug:

True.
Such extreme cases happens everywhere. Maybe not through
religion differentials, but they still happen.
Israel is a democratic country, its just that are a certain
fucked-up people who are too extreme. Those people have very little power in Israel, hopefully one day they will have none. Actually the reason those people have this little power at all is because Israeli is a democratic country
Just hope people here understand it.