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View Full Version : India has killed 10 Million girls in 20 years - (comments from Indians esp. welcome)


drake3781
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:21 AM
India has killed 10 Million girls in 20 years -

By Palash Kumar Thu Dec 14, 1:57 PM ET


NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Ten million girls have been killed by their parents in India in the past 20 years, either before they were born or immediately after, a government minister said on Thursday, describing it as a "national crisis".

A UNICEF report released this week said 7,000 fewer girls are born in the country every day than the global average would suggest, largely because female foetuses are aborted after sex determination tests but also through murder of new borns.

"It's shocking figures and we are in a national crisis if you ask me," Minister for Women and Child Development Renuka Chowdhury told Reuters.

Girls are seen as liabilities by many Indians, especially because of the banned but rampant practice of dowry, where the bride's parents pay cash and goods to the groom's family.

Men are also seen as bread-winners while social prejudices deny women opportunities for education and jobs.

"Today, we have the odd distinction of having lost 10 million girl children in the past 20 years," Chowdhury told a seminar in Delhi University.

"Who has killed these girl children? Their own parents."

In some states, the minister said, newborn girls have been killed by pouring sand or tobacco juice into their nostrils.

"The minute the child is born and she opens her mouth to cry, they put sand into her mouth and her nostrils so she chokes and dies," Chowdhury said, referring to cases in the western desert state of Rajasthan.

"They bury infants into pots alive and bury the pots. They put tobacco into her mouth. They hang them upside down like a bunch of flowers to dry," she said.

"We have more passion for tigers of this country. We have people fighting for stray dogs on the road. But you have a whole society that ruthlessly hunts down girl children."

According to the 2001 census, the national sex ratio was 933 girls to 1,000 boys, while in the worst-affected northern state of Punjab, it was 798 girls to 1,000 boys.

The ratio has fallen since 1991, due to the availability of ultrasound sex-determination tests.

Although these are illegal they are still widely available and often lead to abortion of girl foetuses.

Chowdhury said the fall in the number of females had cost one percent of Inida's GDP and created shortages of girls in some states like Haryana, where in one case four brothers had to marry one woman.

Economic empowerment of women was key to change, she said.

"Even today when you go to a temple, you are blessed with 'May you have many sons'," she said.


"The minute you empower them to earn more or equal (to men), social prejudices vanish."

The practice of killing the girl child is more prevalent among the educated, including in upmarket districts of New Delhi, making it more challenging for the government, the minister said.
"How do we tell educated people that you must not do it? And these are people who would visit all the female deities and pray for strength but don't hesitate to kill a girl child," she said.

Apoleb
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:54 AM
In some states, the minister said, newborn girls have been killed by pouring sand or tobacco juice into their nostrils.

"The minute the child is born and she opens her mouth to cry, they put sand into her mouth and her nostrils so she chokes and dies," Chowdhury said, referring to cases in the western desert state of Rajasthan.

"They bury infants into pots alive and bury the pots. They put tobacco into her mouth. They hang them upside down like a bunch of flowers to dry," she said.

I can't find the words.

RVD
Dec 16th, 2006, 03:05 AM
I can't find the words.Neither can I. :sad:

!<blocparty>!
Dec 16th, 2006, 03:17 AM
Neither can I. :sad:

I copied and pasted the exact extract. :sad::sad::sad:

It sure makes you damn grateful.

rockstar
Dec 16th, 2006, 03:26 AM
:sad:
10 million is like more than the entire population of my country:eek: :help:

wta_zuperfann
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:37 AM
Shocking. Now imagine of these had been Muslims in Pakistan or Afghanistan. The Islamophobes would have a field day with this tragic news.

SeanyQ
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:45 AM
I'll never think of India the same way again! I had no idea it was such a backward place. This is obviously a complete disgrace!

Fingon
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:50 AM
Shocking. Now imagine of these had been Muslims in Pakistan or Afghanistan. The Islamophobes would have a field day with this tragic news.

true, but part of the reason is that as horrible as this is, they are doing it to themselves. The rest of the world gives a shit as long as they leave them alone.

India is a huge country, unlike others, there is a myriad of different traditions, religions, cultures, it's difficult to say "India does", or Hindus do, each region/community is like a country itself and like in Pakistan, there are several areas were the government has little control.

Said all that, it's really beyond me how someone could do those things to a baby, let alone their own daughter, I really have trouble considering them human beings (not even animals treat their children like that).

RJWCapriati
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:52 AM
:sad:

skanky~skanketta
Dec 16th, 2006, 08:19 AM
i find this to be extremely sickening. karma's a bitch, so the parent's have it coming.

Reuchlin
Dec 16th, 2006, 09:06 AM
I can't find the words.

almost the same thing happens during late term (sometimes 9th month) partial birth abortion and is perfectly legal here in Canada-- the only difference is that the doctor has to kill the baby before it's head is out of the vegina (although the rest of the body needs to be out so that the Doctor can cut the baby's neck/spine)

Reuchlin
Dec 16th, 2006, 09:07 AM
:sad:
10 million is like more than the entire population of my country:eek: :help:

check out abortion statistics for the US/Canada...

Reuchlin
Dec 16th, 2006, 09:12 AM
India has killed 10 Million girls in 20 years -
According to the 2001 census, the national sex ratio was 933 girls to 1,000 boys, while in the worst-affected northern state of Punjab, it was 798 girls to 1,000 boys.

The ratio has fallen since 1991, due to the availability of ultrasound sex-determination tests.

Although these are illegal they are still widely available and often lead to abortion of girl foetuses.


In my country (Canada) abortion is a RIGHT that every woman has...without restriction. Why is there such an out cry about women in India just exercising a right that most of the "western" world recognizes? Why would we violate these women's privacy and try to change their "choices"? I mean, male or female...a fetus is not supposed to be a human and thus is without rights...right?

Meteor Shower
Dec 16th, 2006, 10:19 AM
I've been reading this serveral times in the last few years, and just when you think you can't feel worse, every time its even more sad and sickening than the time before.
There is the 21st century for you..

Elske
Dec 16th, 2006, 11:21 AM
OMG :sad: :mad: :sad:

Apoorv
Dec 16th, 2006, 11:33 AM
I know India has a big problem of killing girl infants. but i never knew people kill girls in such gruesome manner esp. in Rajasthan the same state to which i belong. People used to abort girl child before birth, this worsened male-female ratio, through many states. so central government abolished sex detection of child before birth. but who knew people can kill their own child. government has taken various steps and started various campaign to save girl child e.g. free education for girls, 33% quota for women in village panchayats ( works like municipality of cities ) and 33% panchayats have women as their heads. quotas in entrance exams for higher education etc. but nothing is clicking the way it should have. the women commission of india is very active. the problem lies in many factors - dowry, illiteracy, powerty and large families. since people in rural areas are too illiterate and do not plan their families. now india also suffers from problem of dowry. parents of girls need to give dowry to groom's family. many can not afford it, so they find a solution to get out of such situation by killing the girls at birth. shame isnt it. its a very peculier situation to tackle.

But this problem is not found in middle class and rich. mainly poor people and those who live in villages are doing this. this makes the tackling of problem all the more difficult since tv, internet etc. do not reach to them easily and they are uneducated to understand the impact of this practice. but i still wonder how can parents kill their own girl. a child who is as innocent as a new born flower and sweet as sugar is killed.it will take time but things will eventually take a right turn.

Sam L
Dec 16th, 2006, 11:37 AM
almost the same thing happens during late term (sometimes 9th month) partial birth abortion and is perfectly legal here in Canada-- the only difference is that the doctor has to kill the baby before it's head is out of the vegina (although the rest of the body needs to be out so that the Doctor can cut the baby's neck/spine)

Really? I guess what I find weird is that those who are crying over this are the bleeding heart liberals who support abortion. Hypocrisy anyone?

As terrible as this is, it is getting better because old traditions are giving way to new realities of Indian girls been more employable in certain industries like call centres. You can't judge them without understanding their culture and religion. At least, they are not hurting other countries or cultures or people. What happens in a family stays in a family.

This isn't as bad as people blowing themselves up to kill other people because their religion teaches them so. :mad:

Kart
Dec 16th, 2006, 12:46 PM
But this problem is not found in middle class and rich. mainly poor people and those who live in villages are doing this. this makes the tackling of problem all the more difficult since tv, internet etc. do not reach to them easily and they are uneducated to understand the impact of this practice. but i still wonder how can parents kill their own girl. a child who is as innocent as a new born flower and sweet as sugar is killed.it will take time but things will eventually take a right turn.

Yep.

This is a cultural issue, not a national one.

That said, how anyone can bring themselves to do something like this is beyond me really.

Lord Nelson
Dec 16th, 2006, 01:51 PM
It is a cultural factor. The good thing is that abortion is legal. Now there are more hi tech ways of finding the gender of the future baby. So the foetus is kiiled instead of baby after it is born.
India is not a a backward country as some here mentioned. The economy is booming, we have an ancient civilization and we have nuclear energy. We believe in swift justice and don't flee in the face of terror as is the case in Kashmir. We have no Cindy Sheehans thankfully. Our motto is tit for tat. The girl killing is sad. But we should not ban abortion. We can't afford to do so. Perhaps we should invent drugs to make people less fertile. Or go back to what Sanjay Gandhi did which was to forcibly sterilize people. That would help deal with the female killings and overpopulation.

wta_zuperfann
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:20 PM
This isn't as bad as people blowing themselves up to kill other people because their religion teaches them so.


Nobody is excusing terrorism whether by Wahhabi fanatics or by Bush terrorism.

But to say that killing 10 million innocent, precious little girls is "not as bad" is just plain sick.

Sam L
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:24 PM
This isn't as bad as people blowing themselves up to kill other people because their religion teaches them so.


Nobody is excusing terrorism whether by Wahhabi fanatics or by Bush terrorism.

But to say that killing 10 million innocent, precious little girls is "not as bad" is just plain sick.

If this were muslims you'd be screaming, you don't understand their culture, their religion. :rolleyes: So STFU!

I see through your lies and insincerities. What's with the Mother Theresa avatar anyway? So lame.

Bush terrorism? LOL! Shows how deluded you are.

wta_zuperfann
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:34 PM
Deluded?

Yeah, right. Killing 10 million baby girls is OK because it's an acceptable form of cultural holocaust as far as you are concerned. That's sick.

James
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:34 PM
Really? I guess what I find weird is that those who are crying over this are the bleeding heart liberals who support abortion. Hypocrisy anyone?

As terrible as this is, it is getting better because old traditions are giving way to new realities of Indian girls been more employable in certain industries like call centres. You can't judge them without understanding their culture and religion. At least, they are not hurting other countries or cultures or people. What happens in a family stays in a family.

This isn't as bad as people blowing themselves up to kill other people because their religion teaches them so. :mad:

If you read the article you will find that in many cases the child is killed after birth. The child can also be killed before being born, but still the analogy with abortion fails, as most countries allow abortions only in the early stages of the pregnancy after the parents have made an informed choice of their options, and after consulting with a doctor. The situation here is way different.

hdfb
Dec 16th, 2006, 03:09 PM
I knew such things went on..... but not TEN MILLION in 20 years...... that's just an abomination.

King of Prussia
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:04 PM
Actually in the 10 million, most of them were "killed" by abortion.

In the US, there's about 150,000 second-trimester abortions per year I think. Put it proportionnaly to the size of India and multiply by 20 years, and the numbers are similar.

Some stories seem awful, but this isn't the norm.

Apoleb
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:28 PM
Deluded?

Yeah, right. Killing 10 million baby girls is OK because it's an acceptable form of cultural holocaust as far as you are concerned. That's sick.

Thank you. What a lump of irony this Sam_L thing is.

Apoleb
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:31 PM
almost the same thing happens during late term (sometimes 9th month) partial birth abortion and is perfectly legal here in Canada-- the only difference is that the doctor has to kill the baby before it's head is out of the vegina (although the rest of the body needs to be out so that the Doctor can cut the baby's neck/spine)

As far as I know, late abortions are extremely rare, and I don't support them anyway.

Apoleb
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:32 PM
If you read the article you will find that in many cases the child is killed after birth. The child can also be killed before being born, but still the analogy with abortion fails, as most countries allow abortions only in the early stages of the pregnancy after the parents have made an informed choice of their options, and after consulting with a doctor. The situation here is way different.

Agreed. Ofcourse here not to mention that the whole thing is motivated by discrimination on sex.

MistyGrey
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:43 PM
That is sick!
I've been to India and I think this problem mainly exists in the poor regions, but still its very disturbing!

MistyGrey
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Shocking. Now imagine of these had been Muslims in Pakistan or Afghanistan. The Islamophobes would have a field day with this tragic news.

I can imagine the headlines "Barbaric Muslims kill their daughters" :scared:

mykarma
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:47 PM
In my country (Canada) abortion is a RIGHT that every woman has...without restriction. Why is there such an out cry about women in India just exercising a right that most of the "western" world recognizes? Why would we violate these women's privacy and try to change their "choices"? I mean, male or female...a fetus is not supposed to be a human and thus is without rights...right?
These babies are already born so they are no longer a fetus.

*JR*
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:50 PM
2 comments:

In a generation or so things will be different because of a relative shortage of available brides. (Probably leading to the end of the dowry system, or even the parents of brides getting dowries instead of paying them).

To those who say that abortion on demand is simply a choice, the use of it in India for "gender cleansing" is something of a crime against humanity.

njnetswill
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:53 PM
Being the son of two Chinese immigrants, I am also familiar with a culture that has traditionally done horrible things to baby girls. Luckily in China, most new couples now accept a baby girl happily (including my uncle and aunt), though in the countryside that may be harder to tell. In China, the government realizes that an uneven male-female ratio is bad for society, as having millions of "disgruntled bachelors", as they put it in a study, has been shown to increase crime rates, among other negative effects. The "one baby" policy has turned from a policy that encouraged abortion/gender selection to one that causes parents to treasure their only child, regardless of sex. My parents actually find that middle and upper class children in China are very spoiled nowadays, since it is a society of only children. :p

As to India, I'm not really sure how to respond. It is clearly a problem that is mainly related to the poor. I'm just shocked that they can't find more humane ways of killing babies. It is a practice that probably is entrenched in the culture for hundreds, if not thousands of years, so it may be hard to break. The whole thing is very sad though.

Thauron
Dec 16th, 2006, 07:32 PM
In a generation or so things will be different because of a relative shortage of available brides. (Probably leading to the end of the dowry system, or even the parents of brides getting dowries instead of paying them).


Indeed, the dowry system (which has gone completely lost any reasonable limits) is to blame. I heard complains about the dowry system already about half a decade ago, so this is an old problem. Hopefully the government does somehow limit or regulate this soon, most of the infanticides will probably be avoided.

Selah
Dec 16th, 2006, 07:43 PM
2 comments:

In a generation or so things will be different because of a relative shortage of available brides. (Probably leading to the end of the dowry system, or even the parents of brides getting dowries instead of paying them).

To those who say that abortion on demand is simply a choice, the use of it in India for "gender cleansing" is something of a crime against humanity.

I hope that you are right but because of the shortage of brides, yet again women are suffering, females are being kidnapped and forced into marriage. Yes, it is cultural but education is a main factor. I mean, all you have to do is get people to see that it is counterproductive to kill the females because it creates bride shortage, thus affecting families, procreation etc. All it takes is education.

Lord Nelson, i couldn't bring myself to quote you regarding the issues of forced sterilization and what was it? India having nuclear weapons makes them not a backword society :confused: Anyway. I don't even want to bother.

Lord Nelson
Dec 16th, 2006, 08:05 PM
I hope that you are right but because of the shortage of brides, yet again women are suffering, females are being kidnapped and forced into marriage. Yes, it is cultural but education is a main factor. I mean, all you have to do is get people to see that it is counterproductive to kill the females because it creates bride shortage, thus affecting families, procreation etc. All it takes is education.

Lord Nelson, i couldn't bring myself to quote you regarding the issues of forced sterilization and what was it? India having nuclear weapons makes them not a backword society :confused: Anyway. I don't even want to bother.

I meant nuclear civilan energy, sorry my mistake. Nuclear civilan energy is a way to fight against global warming and will increase our consumption of electricity.

Apoleb
Dec 16th, 2006, 08:07 PM
I don't even want to bother.

Wise decision.

Warrior
Dec 16th, 2006, 09:28 PM
"The minute the child is born and she opens her mouth to cry, they put sand into her mouth and her nostrils so she chokes and dies," Chowdhury said, referring to cases in the western desert state of Rajasthan.

"They bury infants into pots alive and bury the pots. They put tobacco into her mouth. They hang them upside down like a bunch of flowers to dry," she said.
.

OMG:sad: :mad:

King of Prussia
Dec 16th, 2006, 09:32 PM
Like I said, the 10 million INCLUDE abortions. So if you don't consider abortion as murder, the title of the article is very misleading.

I mean, those stories of babies killed are horrible, but the article doesn't say 10 million babies were killed that way.

Rocketta
Dec 16th, 2006, 11:27 PM
Like I said, the 10 million INCLUDE abortions. So if you don't consider abortion as murder, the title of the article is very misleading.

I mean, those stories of babies killed are horrible, but the article doesn't say 10 million babies were killed that way.

True, but do you think if this is happening mainly in the poor areas that those women can afford to get the sonogram to determine the sex and then pay to have the abortion? :confused:

and just a comment on the theory 'this is a cultural problem not a national problem'. The culture that makes this possible is part of India and you really can't distance the two as they are part of each other. Also, if you look at it as a culture that believes in it and others cultures don't....then the cultures that do not believe in it by not doing everything humanly possible to change the conditions that cause these things to happen then they are part of the problem which would bring me back to it being a problem for the country of India.

I couldn't imagine thinking that the crime rate among the poor is just a cultural problem and not a USA problem. :shrug:

meyerpl
Dec 16th, 2006, 11:37 PM
Infanticide on a massive scale? Some stories just write their own jokes.

LeRoy.
Dec 17th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Disgusting :rolleyes:

May these people rot in hell :)

Fingon
Dec 17th, 2006, 12:56 AM
I can imagine the headlines "Barbaric Muslims kill their daughters" :scared:

some times it has nothing to do with the religion, I mean, it's not that they act in a barbaric way because of their religion but they rather do it because of cultural traditions and use the religion as a justification, or they might find that certain old forms of certain religions fit their lifestyle.

Of course this topic, the killing of baby girls is particulary disturbing because they are babies, but I know in India and Pakistan there are other barbaric practices in some poor rural areas, like gang raping a woman to punish her husband/brother/father, or I know in many cases, when a husband isn't paid what he was promised for marrying a girl, they throw acid on their wifes' face, and that's not even punished. I know a few women have come to Canada for reconstructive surgery after their faces were burnt by their husbands. So this behaviour towards baby girls is not surprising.

It's very difficult for us to understand how someone would do that to their own baby, but I know that some poor and uneducated people don't really care too much for their children, they have too many and they see them as a burden, in other countries they don't act in such a barbaric way, but there are many cases of poor families with several children that neglect them, or push them into prostitution to bring money home.

One would think that loving your baby would not be a matter of education, but it seems it is in certain places.

kviDsj
Dec 17th, 2006, 05:39 AM
First of all I would question where they are getting the 10 million number from, it sounds grossly exaggerated and cites no sources. If you look at some relible sources like Cia factbok the male/female ration is almost the same in India as in countries like UK. On top of that it has noting to do with India, India is doing all in its capacity to prevent killing of girls and has been quite successful so far, these kind of activities are limited to very poor rural villages and are almost non existence in the average middle class families. India has special affirmative action programmes for women like quotas in the carious occupations like teaching, nursing and also in various levels of politics. The government has launched pro women campaigns all over the country and as a result gender equality has increased significantly and number of abortions are declining rapidly. Most of these killings are done in far of villages located in states in central-west India like Madhya Pradesh and parts of Gujrat which have high poverty and illitracy and where jobs are low as a result people prefer boys who can work for longer hours and sustain themselves.

It is very wrong to generalise all of india is like that for example in the Eastern States the entire system is matriarchal and male female ration is in favour of women.. And to those people who are suggesting that there is discrimination against women remember that India has had a female primeminister and the current de facto leader of the party that has most seats in the ruling UPA coalition is a women, even america or canada has not had a female primeminister/president.

kviDsj
Dec 17th, 2006, 05:44 AM
"They bury infants into pots alive and bury the pots. They put tobacco into her mouth. They hang them upside down like a bunch of flowers to dry," she said.

I would like to see where this was published, 95% of Indian media is sensationalist in nature and this sounds like the stuff they love like the a few months ago one channel made a fuss that ther was coup being set up northern state of punjab and it was about to separate and form a sovereign nation and the currency and other stuff had been prepared :lol: they were wrong of course.

Uranus
Dec 17th, 2006, 10:20 AM
:eek: That's horrible :sad:

mykarma
Dec 18th, 2006, 04:22 AM
These babies are already born so they are no longer a fetus.
Lord Nelson, I could care less about you giving me a bad rep but what the hell were you responding to and what does the following statement mean. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

From Lord Nelson
At least the guy gave me a present, what did you give me?...Nothing! But I kindly told that chap that anthrax was hot a few years back but that the current fad is polonium which I would have preferred to have.

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Dec 18th, 2006, 07:12 AM
this is absolutely disgraceful i cannot believe so many people do this to there own children

galadriel
Dec 18th, 2006, 10:41 AM
I have no words :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

Keadz
Dec 18th, 2006, 12:55 PM
Although this is very sad and by know way am i saying that its 'right', but i dont think anybody here would understand what type of situation these people are in.

Its seams as though these are the poorer people of India and they of course cant afford to have children and buy having a girl it would probally be believed that they would be less helpful to the family in ways of making money. Also they might not have even wanted a baby in the first place, so this could also lead to many male babies being killed aswell.
But still i just dont know how you could possibly kill your own baby, even having an abortion just seems wrong to me...wouldnt it be much better of you to give the child to someone struggling to have a baby

SeanyQ
Dec 24th, 2006, 11:13 AM
To 'Lord Nelson" who bad rep'd me for my above comment. I'm not backward. I do believe in abortion rights. However, if being against killing baby girls makes me backward, then yeah I must be! (You freak!!)

mykarma
Dec 24th, 2006, 05:36 PM
To 'Lord Nelson" who bad rep'd me for my above comment. I'm not backward. I do believe in abortion rights. However, if being against killing baby girls makes me backward, then yeah I must be! (You freak!!)
You've got a good rep. coming.

hingis-seles
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:49 AM
This isn't as bad as people blowing themselves up to kill other people because their religion teaches them so. :mad:

You really shouldn't comment on that about which you have limited knowledge, if any at all.

hingis-seles
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:54 AM
I can imagine the headlines "Barbaric Muslims kill their daughters" :scared:

You've got to love the double standards, eh?

LeRoy.
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:59 AM
You've got to love the double standards, eh?

does this sort of thing happen in Pakistan too ?I mean culture wise the two countries aren't that different seeing that they were one nation half a century ago

hingis-seles
Dec 25th, 2006, 11:53 AM
does this sort of thing happen in Pakistan too ?I mean culture wise the two countries aren't that different seeing that they were one nation half a century ago

It does, but on a much smaller scale and occurs only amongst the extremely poverty-stricken in the rural areas. The problem is deep-rooted in that segment of society. Pakistan was a part of India for so long, that even after partition there are aspects of Indian society that are followed, such as the giving of dowry from the bride to the groom (which is practiced by everyone from the very poor to the richest people in the country) as well as infanticide (practiced only in the rural areas amongst the very poor).

There are a number of NGOs that have been active in free education for children. The Citizen's Foundation has opened it's own schools, and has programs where you can sponsor a child by paying for an entire year's tuition. The incentive for children to come to school instead of working is that they are paid to come to school, to compensate them for the lost wages. This does not directly deal with the issue of infanticide, but as more and more children are educated, infanticide will decrease amongst future generations.

Infanticide is a sin in Islam, yet there are Muslims in this country who follow this Indian custom. Though, it's on a much smaller scale than the situation in India, it is still a problem that needs to be adressed and corrected, before it gets out of hand.

saniafan2005
Dec 25th, 2006, 05:36 PM
well, its same everywhere...have you guys seen the crowd in every abortion center in US? only difference in US and India is, they kill girl childs, here US people kill both male and female childs....

trivfun
Dec 25th, 2006, 10:17 PM
When the dowries are high, the killing gets high as well. This a well-known fact for years.

trivfun
Dec 25th, 2006, 10:33 PM
I hope that you are right but because of the shortage of brides, yet again women are suffering, females are being kidnapped and forced into marriage. Yes, it is cultural but education is a main factor. I mean, all you have to do is get people to see that it is counterproductive to kill the females because it creates bride shortage, thus affecting families, procreation etc. All it takes is education.

Lord Nelson, i couldn't bring myself to quote you regarding the issues of forced sterilization and what was it? India having nuclear weapons makes them not a backword society :confused: Anyway. I don't even want to bother.

Most of them who do this are well-educated. Now, you go check them out at hospitals at one or two months. If it is a girl, abortion.

The family doesn't care about humanity shortage when you fear your daughter is going to be in the hands of a Muslim man or an Indian man that is going to make you broke by those dowry demands of those parents. There is a high rate of Muslim man and hindu women relationship particularly in colleges. I have heard this is an ongoing phenomenon in Israel. You think this is harsh. Oh, boy. Those Hindu parents will turn savage on their girls really quick particularly if it is their first.

Who makes those dowry demands mostly the parents of the PhD or Doctor in America who want an Indian woman to be submissive as hell. It is mercy killing to them.

My family grew up in the country and they didn't kill their children because my grandmother on my mom side was first born. My real mother was first born. My grandmother was born in 1927 and my mom in 1944.

Lord Nelson
Dec 26th, 2006, 01:12 AM
Most of them who do this are well-educated. Now, you go check them out at hospitals at one or two months. If it is a girl, abortion.

The family doesn't care about humanity shortage when you fear your daughter is going to be in the hands of a Muslim man or an Indian man that is going to make you broke by those dowry demands of those parents. There is a high rate of Muslim man and hindu women relationship particularly in colleges. I have heard this is an ongoing phenomenon in Israel. You think this is harsh. Oh, boy. Those Hindu parents will turn savage on their girls really quick particularly if it is their first.

Who makes those dowry demands mostly the parents of the PhD or Doctor in America who want an Indian woman to be submissive as hell. It is mercy killing to them.

My family grew up in the country and they didn't kill their children because my grandmother on my mom side was first born. My real mother was first born. My grandmother was born in 1927 and my mom in 1944.
i think that the debate is not about abortion but killing live babies. If parents want to abort female foetuses, it is their right. But if they kill live babies that is obviously wrong. Now machines exist that can determine the sex of the baby. If baby is female then she is aborted. Middle class have access to this machine.

quahogster
Dec 26th, 2006, 01:18 AM
This is my first post in the forum and it kind of sucks that it has to be in such a depressing thread, but I am an Indian and I know that this will come back to haunt our society. Its karma.

With more and more boys, the population of eligible girls will decrease, and there will come a time when there won't be any girls left to marry. Its happening in some parts of the country already.

trivfun
Dec 26th, 2006, 02:47 AM
i think that the debate is not about abortion but killing live babies. If parents want to abort female foetuses, it is their right. But if they kill live babies that is wrong. Now machines exist that can determine the sex of the baby. If baby is female then she is aborted. Middle class ahve access to this machine.

not all machines can detect if it is a male or female. I mean when my sister went for a scanner, they couldn't tell if it is a boy or girl because the baby turned over. It ended up being a boy.

drake3781
Feb 18th, 2007, 06:58 PM
Indian gov't to raise abandoned girls

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070218/ap_on_he_me/india_baby_girls;_ylt=Ah3cQ9fH2vVToSsBi22p2EIDW7oF

NEW DELHI - The Indian government plans to set up a series of orphanages to raise unwanted baby girls in a bid to halt the widespread practice of aborting female fetuses, according to a senior government official.

Dubbed the "cradle scheme," the plan is an attempt to slow the practice that international groups say has killed more than 10 million female fetuses in the last two decades, leading to an alarming imbalance in the ratio between males and females in India, Renuka Chowdhury, the minister of state for women and child development, told the Press Trust of India news agency in an interview published Sunday.

"What we are saying to the people is have your children, don't kill them. And if you don't want a girl child, leave her to us," Chowdhury told the agency, adding that the government planned to set up a center in each regional district.

"We will bring up the children. But don't kill them because there really is a crisis situation," she said.

On Sunday, police arrested a gynecologist and janitor at a hospital near the central Indian city of Bhopal after the discovery of nearly 400 bones from fetuses and newborns in a pit behind the hospital. It is believed they are the remains of unwanted baby girls.

Many districts in the country of more than 1 billion people routinely report only 800 girls born for every 1,000 boys. According to the latest census figures in India, the number of girls per 1,000 boys declined from 945 to 927 between 1991 and 2001.

Asked if the scheme would not encourage parents to abandon female infants, Chowdhury said: "It doesn't matter. It is better than killing them."
Discrimination against girls stems from the low value attached to females in Indian society. Girls are seen as a burden on the family, requiring a large dowry which many poor families cannot afford. Females are generally the last to be educated or to get medical treatment.

Tests to determine the gender of a fetus are outlawed in India and the government says it is clamping down on doctors who break the law.

But social activists say there are many loopholes which allow those who provide tests to remain free. Since the law was enacted in 1994 only one doctor has been convicted.

Chowdhury did not say how much the orphanage plan would cost but said money had been allocated in the next budget for it. Officials in her office could not immediately be reached for comment Sunday. It was not clear when the first orphanages will open.

drake3781
Feb 19th, 2007, 12:53 AM
Indian police find baby bones in hospital yard

By Girish Sharma Sun Feb 18, 6:01 AM ET


BHOPAL, India (Reuters) - Police in the central Indian state of Madhya Pradesh recovered 390 pieces of bones of newly born babies or fetuses from the backyard of a Christian missionary hospital, officials and media reports said on Sunday.

The question of female feticide and infanticide is part of our investigation, as is illegal abortions," Superintendent of Police Satish Saxena said, speaking from Ratlam town where the grisly find was made on Saturday.

Ratlam is 230 km (140 miles) west of Bhopal, the state capital.

Police, acting on a tip, dug up the backyard of the hospital and found the pieces of bones, some stuffed in plastic bags.

Police in Ratlam have sent the remains to a government laboratory in Bhopal for forensic tests.

Meanwhile, a hospital sweeper and two doctors have been taken into custody by police for questioning.

Hospital records have also been seized.

"We are questioning both the doctors and the further course of action would depend on their statements," Saxena said.

Angry people attempted to barge into the hospital demanding stern action against hospital officials but were stopped by police.

The hospital administrators were not available for comment.

Despite laws banning sex determination tests, the killing of female fetuses is still common in India where the preference for sons runs deep. Infanticide is also practiced in some areas.

Last December, the government said 10 million girls have been killed by their parents in the past 20 years either before they were born or immediately after.

drake3781
Apr 23rd, 2008, 04:53 AM
Dogs find abandoned baby girl in India

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: April 22, 2008
Filed at 8:50 p.m. ET NEW DELHI (AP) -- Stray dogs located a baby girl abandoned under mud and leaves in northeastern India and their barking alerted rescuers, a government official said Tuesday.
The newborn was discovered Sunday when the dogs' yelps and howls drew villagers to a fruit orchard, district magistrate Asangba Chuba Ao told The Associated Press.
Bits of mud and dry leaves had been scattered on top of the child, he said.
The girl was placed in the care of a farm couple in the village of Narhan, in the Nepal-bordering state of Bihar. Local officials had no information about her birth parents.
Authorities did not provide an explanation for the child's apparent abandonment. But a cultural preference for boys in India means women face a great deal of pressure to produce male children, often leading to sex-selective abortions and the abandonment of female infants.

===============

I hope that girl and the dogs that saved her life will be able to meet and spend time together, when she is older.

hablo
Apr 23rd, 2008, 05:01 AM
Indian gov't to raise abandoned girls

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070218/ap_on_he_me/india_baby_girls;_ylt=Ah3cQ9fH2vVToSsBi22p2EIDW7oF

NEW DELHI - The Indian government plans to set up a series of orphanages to raise unwanted baby girls in a bid to halt the widespread practice of aborting female fetuses, according to a senior government official.

Dubbed the "cradle scheme," the plan is an attempt to slow the practice that international groups say has killed more than 10 million female fetuses in the last two decades, leading to an alarming imbalance in the ratio between males and females in India, Renuka Chowdhury, the minister of state for women and child development, told the Press Trust of India news agency in an interview published Sunday.

"What we are saying to the people is have your children, don't kill them. And if you don't want a girl child, leave her to us," Chowdhury told the agency, adding that the government planned to set up a center in each regional district.

"We will bring up the children. But don't kill them because there really is a crisis situation," she said.

On Sunday, police arrested a gynecologist and janitor at a hospital near the central Indian city of Bhopal after the discovery of nearly 400 bones from fetuses and newborns in a pit behind the hospital. It is believed they are the remains of unwanted baby girls.

Many districts in the country of more than 1 billion people routinely report only 800 girls born for every 1,000 boys. According to the latest census figures in India, the number of girls per 1,000 boys declined from 945 to 927 between 1991 and 2001.

Asked if the scheme would not encourage parents to abandon female infants, Chowdhury said: "It doesn't matter. It is better than killing them."
Discrimination against girls stems from the low value attached to females in Indian society. Girls are seen as a burden on the family, requiring a large dowry which many poor families cannot afford. Females are generally the last to be educated or to get medical treatment.

Tests to determine the gender of a fetus are outlawed in India and the government says it is clamping down on doctors who break the law.

But social activists say there are many loopholes which allow those who provide tests to remain free. Since the law was enacted in 1994 only one doctor has been convicted.

Chowdhury did not say how much the orphanage plan would cost but said money had been allocated in the next budget for it. Officials in her office could not immediately be reached for comment Sunday. It was not clear when the first orphanages will open.

What kind of life would these abandonned girls have though ? :sad:

skanky~skanketta
Apr 23rd, 2008, 05:22 AM
Dogs find abandoned baby girl in India

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: April 22, 2008
Filed at 8:50 p.m. ET NEW DELHI (AP) -- Stray dogs located a baby girl abandoned under mud and leaves in northeastern India and their barking alerted rescuers, a government official said Tuesday.
The newborn was discovered Sunday when the dogs' yelps and howls drew villagers to a fruit orchard, district magistrate Asangba Chuba Ao told The Associated Press.
Bits of mud and dry leaves had been scattered on top of the child, he said.
The girl was placed in the care of a farm couple in the village of Narhan, in the Nepal-bordering state of Bihar. Local officials had no information about her birth parents.
Authorities did not provide an explanation for the child's apparent abandonment. But a cultural preference for boys in India means women face a great deal of pressure to produce male children, often leading to sex-selective abortions and the abandonment of female infants.

===============

I hope that girl and the dogs that saved her life will be able to meet and spend time together, when she is older.

Which is rather ironic seeing that the males are the ones who determine the sex of the baby.

hablo
Apr 23rd, 2008, 05:28 AM
^^ So true. :tape:

mariahdg
Apr 23rd, 2008, 05:31 AM
That means easily to adopt baby girl in India for foreigner :D

kittyking
Apr 23rd, 2008, 05:34 AM
That means easily to adopt baby girl in India for foreigner :D

That's not necessarily true

Its an incredibly long and mentally hard process to try and adopt a child from another country, even if they are an orphan or presumed orphan (abandomed).

Expat
Apr 23rd, 2008, 05:48 AM
unfortunately this wont change even if the sex ratio declines considerably
a girl child is a huge cost in terms of dowry in india
even if there are less girls dowry wont decline because the pressure to marry off the girl to a good boy will always be there which costs a lot of money
and its not the poor who are doing it
its the urban elite thats aborting the rural parts still practice infanticide
urban india just aborts them
ironically smaller families in india is leading to this situation
if the first born child is a girl
u can be very sure that if the second child is also a girl she will be aborted
people in india especially the urban elite(hindus,sikhs,jains) except muslims have small families
more than 2 children nowadays in urban india is a rarity except for muslims
if muslims practiced birth control or limit their family size
its the girl that will tak the axe there also
muslims and christians also pay dowry in india so its not just an hindu thing
however small families + dowry is creating this potent mix
the same situation is in china where a single child policy and prefernce for boys is leading to sex ratio disparity

Infiniti2001
Apr 23rd, 2008, 06:07 AM
Has anyone here seen the Bollywood movie Lajja with Madhuri Dixit, Rekha and Manisha Koirala? There is a scene of a man trying to drown a newborn girl in a huge tub of milk . That scene still haunts me :scared: I don't even want to think of the other lengths will people go to get rid of little girls :sad: :help:
P.S. Even some educated Indians in the West are taking part in these atrocities against girl babies :help:

Lin Lin
Apr 23rd, 2008, 06:17 AM
I think Reuter definitely exaggerates it to draw eyeballs

drake3781
Apr 23rd, 2008, 06:25 AM
I think Reuter definitely exaggerates it to draw eyeballs

Could be the case, if we didn't have people from the culture and familiar with the culture, right here, telling us that it is true, explaining the reasons, and providing more details and information. (Have you been reading that?)

mariahdg
Apr 23rd, 2008, 06:39 AM
drake wants to make a paper. :D

Selah
Apr 23rd, 2008, 11:09 AM
Which is rather ironic seeing that the males are the ones who determine the sex of the baby.

Everything about this practice is ironic, seeing as how many villages now have a shortage of women/girls to marry off, which causes more injustices against women like kidnapping, rape etc. Education is only way this will end.

lee station
Apr 23rd, 2008, 11:46 AM
I'm glad it's banned

Destiny
Apr 23rd, 2008, 04:20 PM
:fiery: I readed another article like this it's sicken :mad:

kwilliams
Apr 23rd, 2008, 05:08 PM
I copied and pasted the exact extract. :sad::sad::sad:

It sure makes you damn grateful.

It's just makes me feel sad. I'm not even angry (and I usually would be). It's the method almost as much as the act itself as well. What a huge social problem, people need to tackle that issue fast.

Expat
Apr 23rd, 2008, 05:25 PM
P.S. Even some educated Indians in the West are taking part in these atrocities against girl babies :help:
this part i will answer
indians generally don't want girls
but a bigger reason for indians not having girls in the west is the fear that they will become corrupt and too "westernized"
unlike people born into islam we dont put burqas or homeschool girls
indians want our children to be confident to be able to face the world and get a good education
this includes girls getting a decent job and education and encouraging their children to be a part of the mainstream
but the fear is that if the girl child turns out to be "wild" or marries outside the community the parents lose their social standing
indians want children to be western in every way except the sexual way
maybe not even sexual , they understand that their children will turn sexual but what they want is that the child marries within the community this goes for both boys and girls but the "shame" if a girl marries or dates outside the community is too huge for the parents to bear
many people dont have a problem with their girls having a boyfriend as long as he is within the community

there isn't a system of honor killing within Hindus but raising a girl child in the "decadent" west is something they would rather avoid
and this is something that even normal parents would understand
the desire to protect their girls from boyfriends , illogical relationships, bad marriages etc
the problem is that in our community it affects our standing in society the consequences of actions of children are faced by parents and vice versa

Jakeev
Apr 24th, 2008, 04:27 AM
At this rate Indian men might as well turn gay and get it over with........

azza
Apr 24th, 2008, 09:21 AM
Sanai Mirza got lucky then :lol:

mariahdg
Jun 12th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Sanai Mirza got lucky then :lol:

now we already knew. she is muslim. :p