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Brαm
Dec 14th, 2006, 11:07 AM
Gosh, what a lame joke :rolleyes: I can't believe Walloon TV acutally did this :o

:cuckoo:

Independence hoax leads to investigation of public broadcaster

The Associated Press
Published: 2006-12-14 04:20:12

BRUSSELS, Belgium: Political leaders reacted with outrage Thursday to a hoax newscast by state television in Belgium's French-speaking region announcing that the Dutch-speaking part of the country had declared independence.
Frantic viewers flooded the call center of the RTBF broadcaster during Wednesday evening's program and embassies called Belgian authorities to find out what was going on.

"Embassies and ambassadors who were worried asked what they had to tell their capitals," said Senate Chair Anne-Marie Lizin. "This fiction was seen as a reality and it created a catastrophic image of the country."

The broadcaster RTBF said the program showed the importance of debate on the future of Belgium. There has been 20 years of relative linguistic calm in Belgium since far-reaching autonomy was granted in the 1980s to the Flemish Dutch-speakers and the francophones from Wallonia and Brussels.

"A bad joke that shows bad taste," said Didier Seeuws, spokesman for Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, after the prime-time broadcast.

He said it was "task of public broadcasters to inform the public correctly, not to create confusion." :yeah:

The RTBF's phony newscast reported that the "Flemish parliament has unilaterally declared the independence of Flanders" and that King Albert and Queen Paola had fled the country on an air force plane. :tape:
It showed fuzzy pictures of people walking to a plane in the dark of night on a military airfield near Brussels and a small crowd of pro-monarchy demonstrators outside the royal palace waving the Belgian flag.

Yves Thiran, the station's information and ethics director, defended the newscast saying it showed the "importance of a topical political debate, the debate about the future of Belgium."

The francophone regional government, Belgium's French-speaking southern half, demanded an investigation into the extraordinary half-hour newscast, which interrupted regular programming at 2022 (1922GMT). Fadila Lanaan, the francophone media minister, said she will call RTBF officials on the carpet about what she called the "scandalous" newscast.

"I also question the ethics of journalists who worked on this program," she said.

Elio di Rupo, leader of the French-speaking socialist party, said the coup d'etat report questioned the future of the Belgian monarchy, which is seen as the glue that holds a country of 6 million Dutch-speakers and 4.5 million francophones together as a state.

Independence for Flanders is not a burning political issue. It is embraced only by the far-right Flemish Interest party which opposes multiculturalism and considers Wallonia a freeloader.

"Flanders has a gross domestic product nearly 25 percent higher than Wallonia. Flanders wants to combat welfare abuses, but Walloon politicians refuse to do so," says Frank Vanhecke, the leader of the Flemish Interest Party, on the pro-secessionist Flemish Republic web site.

"For many decades the free-market oriented Flemings have been subsidizing Socialist-dominated Wallonia. The Belgian Constitution gives the Francophones 50 percent of political power and a veto over major issues, which makes the French-speakers act as if they are the majority. The Flemings have had enough," says Vanhecke, whose party polls about 25 percent of the vote in Flanders.

pigmalion
Dec 14th, 2006, 11:10 AM
what a great evening yesterday, it was fun :lol: :lol:

although I was very afraid :tape:

Maajken
Dec 14th, 2006, 11:18 AM
if only it were true lol

can't believe so many people bought this :lol:

fifiricci
Dec 14th, 2006, 11:42 AM
Just read about this on the BBC website. What a hoot! :lol:

Still, its apparently what a lot of Flemings want, isn't it? Or were they voting just for the anti immigration part of VB's ticket? ;)

manu
Dec 14th, 2006, 11:54 AM
lol :) I can't believe so many people took it so hard! Can't we have a good laugh from time to time? I sure did! :lol: I can understand why some people might have freaked out a little though... Maybe the 1st of April would have been a better day to broadcast this ;) And I also think they should have informed everyone who co-operated to the newscast about the precise context in which their interviews/comments/other contributions would be used. Apart from that, I really thought there wasn't much harm in this. There are more important things in the world than a fake newscast IMO!

pla
Dec 14th, 2006, 12:17 PM
Fantastic joke :lol: and I missed it :o What a shame :D I adore those things, still remember the joke of BG TV when they pretended the Kozlodouy nuclear power plant had exploded :lol:

:bowdown: to RTBF :lol:

Lord Nelson
Dec 14th, 2006, 12:34 PM
It reminds me of Orson Welles infamous radio broadcast where he said that Martians had come to invade Earth. This was the day before TV was around and many people believed in these things and were freaked out!

The Crow
Dec 14th, 2006, 01:26 PM
:lol: :lol: This should happen more :D

Bram, I thought the reactions of the politicians were lame (of the VB as well as of the traditional parties). Gawd, lighten up already.

Come-on-kim
Dec 14th, 2006, 06:53 PM
I didn't like the "joke". I didn't buy because I knew it was false but I didn't like it. We don't play like this with people's emotions

Dahveed
Dec 14th, 2006, 08:49 PM
Belgians :rolleyes: why am i not surprised :p

Hagar
Dec 15th, 2006, 08:26 AM
Still, its apparently what a lot of Flemings want, isn't it?

No, it isn't. Get your facts straight. There have been surveys about this, and there is always a strong majority in favour of keeping the Belgian state (figures of more than 80%). So here goes yet another attempt of you to describe Flemings as a racist and fascist lot.

Hagar
Dec 15th, 2006, 08:29 AM
BTW, I think it was an unethical thing to do. Journalists should inform, not create "reality TV".
And it creates a completely false image of the Flemings, and their political agenda (which is often an sensible one).
For the record, I am very much against a further federalization of Belgium but I think that some francophones in Belgium still have not understood that Flemings are not second-class citizens.

Maajken
Dec 15th, 2006, 08:57 AM
No, it isn't. Get your facts straight. There have been surveys about this, and there is always a strong majority in favour of keeping the Belgian state (figures of more than 80%). So here goes yet another attempt of you to describe Flemings as a racist and fascist lot.
how is wanting an independent flanders racist and fascist?

Hagar
Dec 15th, 2006, 09:59 AM
how is wanting an independent flanders racist and fascist?

Am I saying this? I don't think so.
All I am saying is that Fi likes to describe Flemings as racist and fascist. But not because some of them want independence. I don't know why she's saying it but it must be a very subjective reason.

My opinion about this claim for independence is that it is ridiculous but I wouldn't call it racist and/or fascist. I just think it is not necessary. I'm sure that if Belgium would be organized more efficiently, a lot of the Flemish demands could be complied with.

propi
Dec 15th, 2006, 12:23 PM
Wow Spanish TV discovered this last evening and some among public people have taken it really seriously... I don't want to think what would happen if done here :scared: possibly our #6723896 civil war :rolleyes:
Not the best way to create a debate if that was the real intention... I guess sense of humour is very different from country to country :p

fifiricci
Dec 15th, 2006, 12:33 PM
Am I saying this? I don't think so.
All I am saying is that Fi likes to describe Flemings as racist and fascist. But not because some of them want independence. I don't know why she's saying it but it must be a very subjective reason.

My opinion about this claim for independence is that it is ridiculous but I wouldn't call it racist and/or fascist. I just think it is not necessary. I'm sure that if Belgium would be organized more efficiently, a lot of the Flemish demands could be complied with.

Its not subjective. I got all my data from two articles on the BBC website. The first was about the apparent "coup" and contained the following statement:

"The broadcast came amid an apparent growth of separatist sentiment in Flanders. Recent regional elections have shown strong support for the far-right, nationalist Vlaams Belang party, which advocates Flemish independence."

The second came from another article on the BBC website which containted the following statement:

"Vlaams Belang campaigns on a platform of independence for Flanders, the richer Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, and an anti-immigration integrationist stance towards minorities."

My post merely infers that Flemish independence and anti-immigration are elements of the VB manifesto. Which is true! The terms "fascist" and "racist" were applied by another poster, not me. I have no idea how many Flemings in total are fascist and racist and would never dare to guess. I can only judge it by those I know personally.

LoveFifteen
Dec 15th, 2006, 12:35 PM
I think it's absolutely hilarious, and I can only shake my head that people actually flew into a panic over this. People are just angry because they were exposed as gullible fools.

As a side note, this should be a healthy wake-up call for people to stop believing everything they read in newspapers and watch on TV immediately.

rottweily
Dec 15th, 2006, 12:44 PM
It was so apparent it was fake, don't know why so many people bought into it.

Having 30 reports ready when you just heard the news in the studio, yeah right :D

-Ph51-
Dec 15th, 2006, 12:47 PM
It also shows the fear that Walloons have that this could happen.:devil:

The Crow
Dec 15th, 2006, 12:51 PM
I can only judge it by those I know personally.

Touche :sad:

pigmalion
Dec 15th, 2006, 01:06 PM
It also shows the fear that Walloons have that this could happen.:devil:

:rolleyes:

Josh
Dec 15th, 2006, 01:13 PM
It also shows that this is a much bigger issue in French speaking Belgium than it is in Flanders, probably because they've got more to lose if this scenario would really happen. A while ago the RTBF did a report on the consequences of Flemish independence for Wallonia and it was a rather negative picture, especially budget-wise.
I think most Flemings don't really care either way and would probably vote to keep Belgium as it is if they are asked to.

-Ph51-
Dec 15th, 2006, 01:13 PM
:rolleyes:

La vérité blesse! :angel:

pigmalion
Dec 15th, 2006, 01:25 PM
La vérité blesse! :angel:

Ok je réponds en français je trouve ça débile entre belges de parler anglais !:tape: Et puis mon français est éminament meilleur que mon anglais :lol:

Donc non ça blesse pas vraiment, la chose que j'ai compris avec cette émission c'est que l'indépendance de la Flandre est irréalisable et totalement impossible...
J'ai entendu une phrase je ne sais plus de qui, mais c'était quelque chose du genre: "tout le monde connait la Belgique, personne ne connait la Flandre..".
Je trouve ça joliment dit.

Josh
Dec 15th, 2006, 01:32 PM
Ok je réponds en français je trouve ça débile entre belges de parler anglais !:tape: Et puis mon français est éminament meilleur que mon anglais :lol:

Donc non ça blesse pas vraiment, la chose que j'ai compris avec cette émission c'est que l'indépendance de la Flandre est irréalisable et totalement impossible...
J'ai entendu une phrase je ne sais plus de qui, mais c'était quelque chose du genre: "tout le monde connait la Belgique, personne ne connait la Flandre..".
Je trouve ça joliment dit.

Pourquoi serait-ce irréalisable et impossible? (Note : je ne suis pas pro-indépendance mais je me demande pourquoi tu as compris ceci avec cette émission?)
La personne qui a dit ça est Axelle Red. ;)

Tom13
Dec 15th, 2006, 03:37 PM
http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/mediatheek/video-061214RTBF/index.shtml

La VRT a mis l'émission en ligne pour ceux qui l'ont pas vu.
Après coup, ça fait quand même bien rire.

pigmalion
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Pourquoi serait-ce irréalisable et impossible? (Note : je ne suis pas pro-indépendance mais je me demande pourquoi tu as compris ceci avec cette émission?)
La personne qui a dit ça est Axelle Red. ;)

parce que tu as vu le patakès que ça a fait. Jamais d'un point de vue diplomatique et institutionnel ce serait possible. Jamais l'Europe ne l'accepterait (venant d'un pays fondateur qui plus est). Et puis que ferait-on de Bruxelles (un district europeen comme ça été proposé, c'est impensable). Et puis avec des choses pratiques comme les opérateurs de téléphone, etc.
Moi ça me parait inconcevable.

^bibi^
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:58 PM
I was on the train when this happened, just got back from Flanders so I didn't bought it when my best friend phoned me to tell it coz e said trams were blocked at the entrence of Brussel and I just got off one a few minutes before :lol: . The idea was good, the way it was done wasn't.

^bibi^
Dec 15th, 2006, 05:01 PM
It also shows that this is a much bigger issue in French speaking Belgium than it is in Flanders, probably because they've got more to lose if this scenario would really happen. A while ago the RTBF did a report on the consequences of Flemish independence for Wallonia and it was a rather negative picture, especially budget-wise.
I think most Flemings don't really care either way and would probably vote to keep Belgium as it is if they are asked to.

There would be one major problem for flemish people, they don't make anough children to pay for retired people. But let's face it that's almost it. I must say the first thing I thought when I learnt the news (I should add that I was coming back from signing a new work contract in Flanders) was that if it did happen I'd probably move in Flanders :lol: (i'l l probably move there next year anyway though :p )

Josh
Dec 15th, 2006, 11:13 PM
There would be one major problem for flemish people, they don't make anough children to pay for retired people. But let's face it that's almost it. I must say the first thing I thought when I learnt the news (I should add that I was coming back from signing a new work contract in Flanders) was that if it did happen I'd probably move in Flanders :lol: (i'l l probably move there next year anyway though :p )

A decreasing fertility rate is pretty much a problem for every western nation but lately the number of births is on the rise again. But yeah, they'll need to reform the social security system because there won't be enough money anymore in the near future if they leave it as it is today.

Come-on-kim
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:50 AM
A decreasing fertility rate is pretty much a problem for every western nation but lately the number of births is on the rise again. But yeah, they'll need to reform the social security system because there won't be enough money anymore in the near future if they leave it as it is today.
There's nothing much to do about the social security. They can't change it as a whole... It's an Hilberg's hotel. Let's face it, people who now gives money for elderies' pension won't agree not to receive the same treatment when they'll be retired etc... So except reducing the cost, we can't do much more... What we need is an higher growth of the population and of the GDP.

fifiricci
Dec 16th, 2006, 07:43 AM
There's nothing much to do about the social security. They can't change it as a whole... It's an Hilberg's hotel. Let's face it, people who now gives money for elderies' pension won't agree not to receive the same treatment when they'll be retired etc... So except reducing the cost, we can't do much more... What we need is an higher growth of the population and of the GDP.

This is pretty much a universal problem, not exclusive to Belgium, but you certainly won't help it by making an already small country even smaller ;)

Pretty soon the western world is going to be overrun by wrinklies and I really don't therefore understand this obsession with telling people to have healthier lifestyles. For example, instead of encouraging people to give up smoking, we should encourage them to keep on doing it! They'll die 10 or 12 years younger (on average), thus drastically cutting the old age pensions the state will have to pay them :D .

In about 50 years time I reckon Western Europe will have a Logan's Run type scenario to deal with and public health experts will be told to bloody well shut up then ;) .

-Ph51-
Dec 16th, 2006, 08:02 AM
This is pretty much a universal problem, not exclusive to Belgium, but you certainly won't help it by making an already small country even smaller ;)

Pretty soon the western world is going to be overrun by wrinklies and I really don't therefore understand this obsession with telling people to have healthier lifestyles. For example, instead of encouraging people to give up smoking, we should encourage them to keep on doing it! They'll die 10 or 12 years younger (on average), thus drastically cutting the old age pensions the state will have to pay them :D .

In about 50 years time I reckon Western Europe will have a Logan's Run type scenario to deal with and public health experts will be told to bloody well shut up then ;) .

I have the intention to enjoy good cuisine, have nice wine and smoke whenever i feel to plus i will live long and happily.:lick: :drool: :lol: :devil:

arn
Dec 16th, 2006, 01:42 PM
Pretty soon the western world is going to be overrun by wrinklies and I really don't therefore understand this obsession with telling people to have healthier lifestyles. For example, instead of encouraging people to give up smoking, we should encourage them to keep on doing it! They'll die 10 or 12 years younger (on average), thus drastically cutting the old age pensions the state will have to pay them :D .



:lol: But that would face us with another major problem; Very expensive cancer treatment bills will have to be paid :scratch:

fifiricci
Dec 16th, 2006, 01:58 PM
:lol: But that would face us with another major problem; Very expensive cancer treatment bills will have to be paid :scratch:

Inevitably cancer is a disease that kills (specially lung cancer - it kills about 95% of people who get it within 5 years). The cost of giving those people a couple of radio/chemotherapy blasts so they last a bit longer is nothing compared to looking after millions of people with healthy lifestyles who will live on practically for ever in expensive care homes who will need that paid for, along with the health bills for multiple joint replacements and expensive drugs for the diseases of old age (alzheimers, parkinsons, MS, osteoporosis, arthritis, heart disease - need I go on?). It's the pesky bastards with healthly lifestyles who are going to break the state's bank when it comes to pension payments and health bills, not the poor smokers and drinkers! I can't believe that so few people see and understand that.

Its the healthy long living bastards who are going to run up the bills, not the unhealthy smokers and drinkers, who by definition will be dead by their 70s unless they are very very lucky! :p

arn
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:07 PM
There's nothing much to do about the social security. They can't change it as a whole... It's an Hilberg's hotel. Let's face it, people who now gives money for elderies' pension won't agree not to receive the same treatment when they'll be retired etc... So except reducing the cost, we can't do much more... What we need is an higher growth of the population and of the GDP.

Offcourse lots can be changed and will be changed. I will just give some examples, not that I agree with them all; Working til you're 65, lower pensions but encouraging people to start saving for their pensions by giving them fiscal incentives, giving people less money when they are not working for over X time, Stimulating prevention (by regular check-ups, a healthier life style,...), learning doctors to subscribe cheaper medicins and less antibiotics, stimulating families to have more children, treating foreigners in our (specialized) hospitals who pay a substantial amuont for that service, encouraging people to let their parents life with them instead of in a retirement home, only paying back cheaper medicins, giving more money to research on cancer, aids,..., ban all cigarettes, only pay back visits to the doctor/dentist of you go at least once a year for a check-up, stimulating companies to pay for a pension/dentist/... plan,...

The Crow
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:08 PM
That's why the healthy longliving bastards will have to work longer in the future :p

arn
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:12 PM
Inevitably cancer is a disease that kills (specially lung cancer - it kills about 95% of people who get it within 5 years). The cost of giving those people a couple of radio/chemotherapy blasts so they last a bit longer is nothing compared to looking after millions of people with healthy lifestyles who will live on practically for ever in expensive care homes who will need that paid for, along with the health bills for multiple joint replacements and expensive drugs for the diseases of old age (alzheimers, parkinsons, MS, osteoporosis, arthritis, heart disease - need I go on?). It's the pesky bastards with healthly lifestyles who are going to break the state's bank when it comes to pension payments and health bills, not the poor smokers and drinkers! I can't believe that so few people see and understand that.

Its the healthy long living bastards who are going to run up the bills, not the unhealthy smokers and drinkers, who by definition will be dead by their 70s unless they are very very lucky! :p

I have another proposition for you: Smokers only work untill they are 55, so they have 15 good years left, Non-smokers work untill they are 63 so they also have 15 good years left :lol:.

Offcourse to balance the costs between smokers and non-smokers, cancer treatments will not be paid back at all :o :lol:

arn
Dec 16th, 2006, 02:13 PM
That's why the healthy longliving bastards will have to work longer in the future :p

Damn, you beat me to it! :smash:

Kart
Dec 16th, 2006, 03:04 PM
Inevitably cancer is a disease that kills (specially lung cancer - it kills about 95% of people who get it within 5 years). The cost of giving those people a couple of radio/chemotherapy blasts so they last a bit longer is nothing compared to looking after millions of people with healthy lifestyles who will live on practically for ever in expensive care homes who will need that paid for, along with the health bills for multiple joint replacements and expensive drugs for the diseases of old age (alzheimers, parkinsons, MS, osteoporosis, arthritis, heart disease - need I go on?). It's the pesky bastards with healthly lifestyles who are going to break the state's bank when it comes to pension payments and health bills, not the poor smokers and drinkers! I can't believe that so few people see and understand that.


Is the gap really that big though ? :confused:

I've always assumed that the cancer treatment - if you include the operations, scans, overpriced drugs, hospices etc - outweighs the rest in terms of relative cost because the patients are often younger and nowadays live longer.

njnetswill
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Not the smartest idea to do, but I wish that they could do something like that in the United States. God knows how many dumb people we have here. :o

"Texas announces independence"

:haha: