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View Full Version : Teacher calls Muslim student 'terrorist'


roarke
Dec 12th, 2006, 02:36 PM
JENNIFER MACEY:

Since last year's Cronulla riots, the New South Wales Anti-Discrimination board has been inundated by calls from Muslim Australians.

One of those calls came from a grade 11 student at Blakehurst High School in Sydney's south-east, who lodged a complaint against his legal studies teacher for calling him a terrorist.

Wagih Zac Fares says he's still hurt by the comment made in front of his classmates.

WAGIH ZAC FARES: I put my bag on the table, looking for a chair to sit at. I asked the girl next to that chair if the chair was free and her reply was yes. I sat down next to her, and on that table was her magazine, and I began flicking through it.

Mr Seymour then approached me, and said give me the magazine, in that aggressive tone right from the beginning. I said sir, please can I just put the magazine back in her bag?

He said no, you've come into my classroom, you've moved desks, and that's when he outburst (sic), said no, I don't want to negotiate with a terrorist.

When he said that it hit me, and I was shocked, I was embarrassed, I was just humiliated. And everyone stopped talking, all conversations dropped and looked at me.

Emotions were building up. That's when I banged the table and said sir, that's wrong. And unable to control my emotions, I began screaming out, I'm not a terrorist. How can you call me a terrorist?

I ran out of the classroom, punching walls, screaming I'm not a terrorist, how can you call me a terrorist?

JENNIFER MACEY:

Wagih Fares says he ran from the classroom and was followed by his teacher, who apologised. When he returned to the school he picked up tables and threw them.

He says he hasn't been able to return to his legal studies class and now wants the teacher transferred to another school.

WAGIH FARES: I cannot continue my education and to achieve my personal goals and go on to uni with this teacher there now.

The Department did take a while to come out with a result, and the result was that I had to either move schools, drop the subject, or do in-school tutoring, where I have to do... make the decisions, where I've done nothing wrong. It should be the teacher that must make the decision.

JENNIFER MACEY:

The State's Education Department has investigated the incident and disciplined the teacher. The investigation found that the teacher hadn't intended to embarrass or humiliate the student.

The Department's Regional Director Dr Phil Lambert says the teacher is truly sorry.
From National Nine News

A year on from the Cronulla riots, it's words, not actions, that are causing pain.

Blakehurst High student Wagih Fares was called a terrorist by his legal studies teacher.

The conflict today is whether an apology and counselling is punishment enough.

I met Wagih, his parents and brothers and sisters at their Brighton Le Sands home this morning. They offered coffee to reporters and unwavering support for Wagih's stand.

"It's painful," Wagih said. "It's more than words."

There's no doubt that for this Lebanese Muslim family the teacher's words caused deep wounds.

"We are Australians. My children were born in Australia," Wagih's mother said.

Wagih claims that in June he was told in a "loud and very aggressive voice" by legal studies teacher, Michael Seymour, to hand over a magazine.

When he refused the teacher responded: "I don't want to negotiate with a terrorist."

The Department of Education's regional director of schools Phil Lambert said today the teacher had admitted his mistake and apologised.

"In the heat of the moment he said those words and he regrets having said them."
...
"He was there to have a go at me," replied Wagih. "I don't know why. Maybe because I'm Lebanese."

The Fares family want the teacher fired or transferred so that Wagih can return to his legal studies class. The Education Department believes the teacher has learned his lesson the hard way.

An Anti Discrimination Board investigation will make the final call on whether the teachers remorseful actions are punishment enough for his painful words.

From AAP
"I've done nothing wrong and to be called that word it's painful. It is painful, that's a good word to describe it, disgusted, it's still hitting me now, it still gets me now," Wagih said on Channel 10.

SelesFan70
Dec 12th, 2006, 02:39 PM
The teacher apologized...let's move on. :)

Maryamator
Dec 12th, 2006, 02:41 PM
:eek:

mykarma
Dec 12th, 2006, 02:45 PM
The teacher apologized...let's move on. :)Easy for you to say since you'll never know what that feels like or what it has done to this child.:rolleyes:

TdF_DBLL
Dec 12th, 2006, 02:49 PM
Well sometimes things happen and you can't turn it back, but mostly it's just a stupid first reaction or even a misplaced joke. I guess you have to get over it and move on if someone apologized like the teacher did here. Maybe it sounds rude, but it's hard world if you take every single word as discrimination in the hardest form.

Apoleb
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:04 PM
The teacher apologized...let's move on. :)

Typical retardation. The fact that you chose to dismiss so fast such a disgusting case of discrimination speaks volume about what you believe yourself.

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:10 PM
Everybody knows what it feels like to have some asshole teacher say something hurtful, unfair, etc. The teacher was wrong, but this kid is either intentionally blowing the incident way out of proportion or he's just nuts. Screeming, running, punching walls, throwing desks and now he can't return to the class? How about growing a pair of balls? How about growing up? Life isn't fair, you run into some jerks, life goes on.

Apoleb
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:16 PM
Everybody knows what it feels like to have some asshole teacher say something hurtful, unfair, etc.

hmm, no. This isn't just a case of a teacher hurting a kid's feelings, and not everyone is subject to racial or cultural discrimination like that. There are few things that are less appalling than telling a kid "I don't negotiate with terrorists." I guess it's easy to talk out of your ass when you're not subject to prejudice.

azdaja
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:22 PM
Everybody knows what it feels like to have some asshole teacher say something hurtful, unfair, etc. The teacher was wrong, but this kid is either intentionally blowing the incident way out of proportion or he's just nuts. Screeming, running, punching walls, throwing desks and now he can't return to the class? How about growing a pair of balls? How about growing up? Life isn't fair, you run into some jerks, life goes on.
that's partly true, but i disagree. people who say things like this should be disciplined. teachers should not be allowed to discrimanate against their students because of their ethnicity and similar. schools are institutions and discrimination in any shape or form should not be tolerated there.

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:26 PM
hmm, no. This isn't just a case of a teacher hurting a kid's feelings, and not everyone is subject to racial or cultural discrimination like that. There are few things that are less appalling than telling a kid "I don't negotiate with terrorists." I guess it's easy to talk out of your ass when you're not subject to prejudice.

I guess it's easy to be obnoxious and disrespectful when hiding behind a computer screen. Cowardy but easy.

You don't know a goddamn thing about me or what I have and have not experienced.

If I were the school administrator, I'd discipline the teacher. Period. But you know what? This seventeen year-old can spend the rest of his life crying and punching walls, running and hiding everytime somebody hurts his feelings or he can become a man. It's his choice. Either way, in a world that is becoming more and more populated by overgrown babies, men and women will prevail.

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:31 PM
that's partly true, but i disagree. people who say things like this should be disciplined. teachers should not be allowed to discrimanate against their students because of their ethnicity and similar. schools are institutions and discrimination in any shape or form should not be tolerated there.

You are absolutely correct; I agree with you 100% The teacher should be held accountable; his behavior was inexcusable.

I wouldn't tolerate punching walls, throwing desks and refusing to attend class either.

Apoleb
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:35 PM
I guess it's easy to be obnoxious and disrespectful when hiding behind a computer screen. Cowardy but easy.

You don't know a goddamn thing about me or what I have and have not experienced.

If I were the school administrator, I'd discipline the teacher. Period. But you know what? This seventeen year-old can spend the rest of his life crying and punching walls, running and hiding everytime somebody hurts his feelings or he can become a man. It's his choice. Either way, in a world that is becoming more and more populated by overgrown babies, men and women will prevail.

Well the irony in this post is too much, because you don't know what this student has experienced in his life either to judge him like that; not to mention this isn't really the issue here, how the student reacted. Is it too hard to imagine why anyone would get in an emotional outburst because of racial/cultural discrimination? You don't know the pressue that this student is under. And this is probably as disgusting as it can get; a teacher calling a student a terrorist out of the blue.

And for the record, what I said was a general statement.

Paul.
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:39 PM
The teacher apologized...let's move on. :)

i dont think a simple apology can excuse such a disgusting act. although i wish everything could be ok just by saying sorry :lol: naive to think so though ;)

Paul.
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:42 PM
You are absolutely correct; I agree with you 100% The teacher should be held accountable; his behavior was inexcusable.

I wouldn't tolerate punching walls, throwing desks and refusing to attend class either.


to be honest, i dont think i would return to that class after the blatent discrimination. i would stick to my morals

Apoleb
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:43 PM
to be honest, i dont think i would return to that class after the blatent discrimination. i would stick to my morals

I agree. I wouldn't return either until some sort of disciplinary action is done to the teacher.

azdaja
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:44 PM
You are absolutely correct; I agree with you 100% The teacher should be held accountable; his behavior was inexcusable.

I wouldn't tolerate punching walls, throwing desks and refusing to attend class either.
dunno, refusing to attend class is alright imo. it can be seen as a form of protest against discrimination. like refusing to take a back seat on the bus.

Wigglytuff
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:45 PM
i love how people are blaming the victim here.

anyway, such a teacher has no business in a classroom. this teacher needs major anger management. if the teacher is allow to continue its really only a matter for things like "i dont want to negotiate with a whore, ******, ect."

Wigglytuff
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:47 PM
to be honest, i dont think i would return to that class after the blatent discrimination. i would stick to my morals

only a coward would return to class after something like that. :mad: :mad:

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Well the irony in this post is too much, because you don't know what this student has experienced in his life either to judge him like that; not to mention this isn't really the issue here, how the student reacted. Is it too hard to imagine why anyone would get in an emotional outburst because of racial/cultural discrimination? You don't know the pressue that this student is under. And this is probably as disgusting as it can get; a teacher calling a student a terrorist out of the blue.

And for the record, what I said was a general statement.

I'm not judging the student or the teacher, I responding to their behavior as reported in the story. There was nothing in the story to suggest the student suffers from any mental or emotional disorders. I assume the young man has experienced some shit in his life. So what? Maybe he's a great kid who was having a bad day. Who cares? We can play the 'who knows' game forever. Who knows, maybe the teacher has been through some shit too? Would that excuse the teacher? I don't think so.

samsung101
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:59 PM
The teacher was disciplined.
I'll presume this teacher is part of a strong union, and
with that, got a fair deal in the review of the situation.

However, if that's all on his or her record, then that's it.

If that's not the habit of the teacher, then it's taken care of.

The student can sue I think. Go for it. But, grow up too.
I don't quite buy the whole thing as it's reported. But, if
so, fine. It's done.


Cartoons and personal swipes create stirs among Muslim groups.

Dead Muslims at the hand of other Muslims, not a peep.




Christians are regularly slammed in the public schools in America.
Not much happens to teachers who do that. It's free speech then.
If they should slam a Muslim or Atheist, it hits the fan.

TheBoiledEgg
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:03 PM
The teacher was disciplined.
I'll presume this teacher is part of a strong union, and
with that, got a fair deal in the review of the situation.

However, if that's all on his or her record, then that's it.

If that's not the habit of the teacher, then it's taken care of.

The student can sue I think. Go for it. But, grow up too.
I don't quite buy the whole thing as it's reported. But, if
so, fine. It's done.


Cartoons and personal swipes create stirs among Muslim groups.

Dead Muslims at the hand of other Muslims, not a peep.




Christians are regularly slammed in the public schools in America.
Not much happens to teachers who do that. It's free speech then.
If they should slam a Muslim or Atheist, it hits the fan.

you are a muppet :lol: :lol:

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:05 PM
only a coward would return to class after something like that. :mad: :mad:
I think only a coward would slink away and never return. If that's what the young man feels he has to do, fine; but he deserves the F he will have earned for the class if he does.

Think about it, what would take more guts; returning to class, looking everyone in the eye and going about the business of doing what you're there to do in the first place or hiding at home?

That young man not returning lets the teacher off the hook to easily. I think his presence in class would serve as a constant reminder to the teacher that he screwed-up.

Someone made a "back of the bus" analogy. Rosa Parks didn't refuse to ride the bus because she'd been mistreated on the bus. She stood her ground, held her head up, rode the bus and refused to submit.

In life, you don't solve problems by hiding from them.

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:08 PM
i love how people are blaming the victim here.



I don't recall anyone blaming the teacher's behavior on the student. I'm saying that the teacher's behavior, while reprehensible, doesn't excuse the student's behavior.

*abby*
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:10 PM
i was in a lecture where the teacher was talking about ethnicity and stuff like that and at one point he said "everyone in this room is Brisitsh, apart from Abby obviously"
now i am British but i just happened to be the only person the lecture theatre who wasnt white.
i know it is nowhere near as extreme as being called a terrorist but i was still offended. however, i didnt scream, throw tables or punch walls and i went back to the class the following week. i have had some shit in my life because of the colour of my skin but if you let every little comment get to you then youre in for a hard life.

Paul.
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:13 PM
I think only a coward would slink away and never return. If that's what the young man feels he has to do, fine; but he deserves the F he will have earned for the class if he does.

Think about it, what would take more guts; returning to class, looking everyone in the eye and going about the business of doing what you're there to do in the first place or hiding at home?

That young man not returning lets the teacher off the hook to easily. I think his presence in class would serve as a constant reminder to the teacher that he screwed-up.

Someone made a "back of the bus" analogy. Rosa Parks didn't refuse to ride the bus because she'd been mistreated on the bus. She stood her ground, held her head up, rode the bus and refused to submit.

In life, you don't solve problems by hiding from them.

i disagree with what you said in this post

you are right, returning to class would also take guts but why the hell would you ruin that part of your education just for people to think "wow, he's brave"

more to the point though, you make out that if he didn't return to the class then the teacher would get off easily. that is completely wrong because the only way that the teacher would get off easily is if the student didnt say anything to anyone and we can see by this article that the teacher most definitely did not. the teacher would probably get punished more because people would think "the student was so badly effected that he wont even return to class if you know what i mean". i dont think this is about looking strong or cowardly or losing face or whatever, its just about a teacher who did something disgusting and needs to be punished. none of this "im sorry" "its okay" crap.

and i think you misunderstood the "back of the bus analogy". what the poster was trying to say in my opinion is that the person would refuse to ride at the back of the bus to show morals, and that is what the lady you mentioned did - refused to ride the back of the bus. the way you interpreted the poster was in thinking that he or she thought that you shouldnt ride the bus at all ;)

thats just my opinion on the thread :lol:

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:21 PM
One point I think some people are missing is that refusing to attend a class to make a point only punishes the one refusing to attend.

Paul.
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:22 PM
i was in a lecture where the teacher was talking about ethnicity and stuff like that and at one point he said "everyone in this room is Brisitsh, apart from Abby obviously"
now i am British but i just happened to be the only person the lecture theatre who wasnt white.
i know it is nowhere near as extreme as being called a terrorist but i was still offended. however, i didnt scream, throw tables or punch walls and i went back to the class the following week. i have had some shit in my life because of the colour of my skin but if you let every little comment get to you then youre in for a hard life.


that was a careless comment from you lecturer :unsure: i can imagine that you felt quite angry about it

but, can you imagine if your lecturer had said something like, we are all going to write about [insert a tope here] except abby because i am not willing to cooperate with a [insert incredibly racist and offensive remark]

how would you react then? do you think you would be the bigger person (in some people's view) and return and not lose face or would you refuse to come back because you feel your teacher does not deserve your time if he is going to be so racist?

just wondering your opinion ;)

Paul.
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:24 PM
One point I think some people are missing is that refusing to attend a class to make a point only punishes the one refusing to attend.

how do you know? the teacher should get punished and that is all the kid is trying to get across. if he kept going to the classes then it would be forgotton. if he refuses then maybe they would be forced to deal with the situation if they are not doing so already.

i wouldnt punish a kid for refusing to attend the class. and maybe if the other teachers had any empathy then they would realise where he was coming from.

*abby*
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:31 PM
that was a careless comment from you lecturer :unsure: i can imagine that you felt quite angry about it

but, can you imagine if your lecturer had said something like, we are all going to write about [insert a tope here] except abby because i am not willing to cooperate with a [insert incredibly racist and offensive remark]

how would you react then? do you think you would be the bigger person (in some people's view) and return and not lose face or would you refuse to come back because you feel your teacher does not deserve your time if he is going to be so racist?

just wondering your opinion ;)

yeah i was pretty pissed off. cant stand they guy.
not quite sure that that analogy matches up to the situation in the article. if he had been excluding the student from participating in the work or a class activity because he was a "terrorist" then i would understand and the student would have every right to be outraged. if that was the case for me then i would take serious action against the teacher as my education would be suffering due to his prejudice. but, however, as far as i can tell this was over the confiscation of a magazine which would probably have been handed back after the class. if that is the case then yeah i would report the teacher and i would trust the the punsihment would be in proportion to the incident. i would be very wary about not returning to class as i know my education would suffer, especially if i was at university, my parents money would be being wasted because i chose not to go to class. the teacher would have to tread very carefully and pretty much suck up to me so i dunno i think i would go back to class depending on the actual thing the teacher said-whether it was a derogatory remark or actual exclusion from class
:)

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:32 PM
how do you know? the teacher should get punished and that is all the kid is trying to get across. if he kept going to the classes then it would be forgotton. if he refuses then maybe they would be forced to deal with the situation if they are not doing so already.

i wouldnt punish a kid for refusing to attend the class. and maybe if the other teachers had any empathy then they would realise where he was coming from.
You may be right, I don't know.

I'm trying to look at it from the standpoint of what's best for the student. I don't believe trying to maximize the consequences for the teacher at the expense of his own education are in the student's best interest. Students go to school and attend class to get something for themselves, not to give something to their teachers or school.

A school can function much better without one student than the student can function without the school.

Paul.
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:40 PM
yeah i was pretty pissed off. cant stand they guy.
not quite sure that that analogy matches up to the situation in the article. if he had been excluding the student from participating in the work or a class activity because he was a "terrorist" then i would understand and the student would have every right to be outraged. if that was the case for me then i would take serious action against the teacher as my education would be suffering due to his prejudice. but, however, as far as i can tell this was over the confiscation of a magazine which would probably have been handed back after the class. if that is the case then yeah i would report the teacher and i would trust the the punsihment would be in proportion to the incident. i would be very wary about not returning to class as i know my education would suffer, especially if i was at university, my parents money would be being wasted because i chose not to go to class. the teacher would have to tread very carefully and pretty much suck up to me so i dunno i think i would go back to class depending on the actual thing the teacher said-whether it was a derogatory remark or actual exclusion from class
:)

yeah, i guess you're right - my analogy was a little different to the article. :lol:

i guess a lot of the reaction is based on maturity and opinion and how badly you react to situation. i guess the kid couldn't see past the remark, which IMO is completely understandable.

i just wish that teacher would be punished!

*abby*
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:45 PM
because im a brown skinned person living in a predominately white country i have to be thick skinned. im not saying that everyone in england is a horrible racist cos theyre not :) what i am saying is that if i took every nasty remark to heart i would probably dig myself a hole to sit in and never come out. you cant afford to be too sensitive in this day and age. im not saying turn a blind eye to offensive things but be careful not to over react as you can often end up making your situation a lot worse than it was when it all started.

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:46 PM
yeah i was pretty pissed off. cant stand they guy.
not quite sure that that analogy matches up to the situation in the article. if he had been excluding the student from participating in the work or a class activity because he was a "terrorist" then i would understand and the student would have every right to be outraged. if that was the case for me then i would take serious action against the teacher as my education would be suffering due to his prejudice. but, however, as far as i can tell this was over the confiscation of a magazine which would probably have been handed back after the class. if that is the case then yeah i would report the teacher and i would trust the the punsihment would be in proportion to the incident. i would be very wary about not returning to class as i know my education would suffer, especially if i was at university, my parents money would be being wasted because i chose not to go to class. the teacher would have to tread very carefully and pretty much suck up to me so i dunno i think i would go back to class depending on the actual thing the teacher said-whether it was a derogatory remark or actual exclusion from class
:)
You follow a very adult line of thinking here. Your whole post shows maturity in the way you've thought the matter through.

Well, I hope the school officials discuss and think the matter through as well. The teacher was wrong and if his remark is indicative of a pattern of behavior, he has no business teaching. As for the student, I hope he learns to control himself better or he's in for a rough life.

Paul.
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:47 PM
because im a brown skinned person living in a predominately white country i have to be thick skinned. im not saying that everyone in england is a horrible racist cos theyre not :) what i am saying is that if i took every nasty remark to heart i would probably dig myself a hole to sit in and never come out. you cant afford to be too sensitive in this day and age. im not saying turn a blind eye to offensive things but be careful not to over react as you can often end up making your situation a lot worse than it was when it all started.

:yeah:

you're posts are so mature and insiteful!!! i wish i was that stong!! :o

:haha:

meyerpl
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:50 PM
because im a brown skinned person living in a predominately white country i have to be thick skinned. im not saying that everyone in england is a horrible racist cos theyre not :) what i am saying is that if i took every nasty remark to heart i would probably dig myself a hole to sit in and never come out. you cant afford to be too sensitive in this day and age. im not saying turn a blind eye to offensive things but be careful not to over react as you can often end up making your situation a lot worse than it was when it all started.
Wise words indeed.:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

BUBI
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:54 PM
This is like the Kramer case. Except here it's more important that the apology is sincere because teacher and student see each other daily.

morningglory
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:58 PM
Stupid move by the teacher :o now he's 99.9% gonna lose his job over a joke

*abby*
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:59 PM
wow being called wise, mature and insightful all on the same day, where the blushing smilie :p
lucky me :D
thanks guys

Selah
Dec 12th, 2006, 05:39 PM
i was in a lecture where the teacher was talking about ethnicity and stuff like that and at one point he said "everyone in this room is Brisitsh, apart from Abby obviously"
now i am British but i just happened to be the only person the lecture theatre who wasnt white.
i know it is nowhere near as extreme as being called a terrorist but i was still offended. however, i didnt scream, throw tables or punch walls and i went back to the class the following week. i have had some shit in my life because of the colour of my skin but if you let every little comment get to you then youre in for a hard life.

I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't take that opportunity to embarrass your teacher and maybe use it as a "real" teaching moment for him and the rest of the class. I take your point about overreaction but on the same hand, one can address such issues in a positive manner. I would have simply said "but I am English" and I'm quite sure the lecture in its context would have been interesting. But with that said, I understand not everyone is the same. cheers.:)

Wigglytuff
Dec 12th, 2006, 07:18 PM
I think only a coward would slink away and never return.
yes well you are wrong. standing up for yourself. and refusing to along a racist idiot to treat you like less than a person is not "slinking away". if you think it is. you are wrong, nothing more to it than that. :)

GrassGOAT
Dec 12th, 2006, 07:30 PM
The teacher was disciplined.
I'll presume this teacher is part of a strong union, and
with that, got a fair deal in the review of the situation.

However, if that's all on his or her record, then that's it.

If that's not the habit of the teacher, then it's taken care of.

The student can sue I think. Go for it. But, grow up too.
I don't quite buy the whole thing as it's reported. But, if
so, fine. It's done.


Cartoons and personal swipes create stirs among Muslim groups.

Dead Muslims at the hand of other Muslims, not a peep.




Christians are regularly slammed in the public schools in America.
Not much happens to teachers who do that. It's free speech then.
If they should slam a Muslim or Atheist, it hits the fan.

Somebody always does you poor Christian americans wrong and nothing is done about it, isn't that right samsung? "The silence is deafening." :sad: :lol:

RVD
Dec 12th, 2006, 08:53 PM
Hmm...?

Firstly, the teacher is blatantly guilty of perpetrating and projecting a disgustingly irresponsible image upon that 17 year-old. :fiery: :mad:

Teachers are responsible for fostering hope, strength, and desire in students. And school is ‘supposed’ to be a place of knowledge and wisdom.

So what is wrong with this picture? :confused:

Also, I wonder what ‘disciplined’ means? :scratch:
Ever notice how school administrations rarely explain the disciplinary action?

As far as the student returning to that class, or even the school itself...
I most certainty wouldn’t either. In fact I left Bishop O’Dowd High in Oakland, California because of ‘a few’ similar confrontations.
The only way I could see the student possibly returning is if:

- The teacher issued a written and public apology, and
- Is enrolled into some form of "race" or ethnic sensitivity program.

P.S.
Or is outright fired!

TheBoiledEgg
Dec 12th, 2006, 09:06 PM
i bet the teacher was widely praised by Australia's leader John Howard :rolleyes:

hablo
Dec 12th, 2006, 09:51 PM
Hmm...?

Firstly, the teacher is blatantly guilty of perpetrating and projecting a disgustingly irresponsible image upon that 17 year-old. :fiery: :mad:

Teachers are responsible for fostering hope, strength, and desire in students. And school is ‘supposed’ to be a place of knowledge and wisdom.

So what is wrong with this picture? :confused:

Also, I wonder what ‘disciplined’ means? :scratch:
Ever notice how school administrations rarely explain the disciplinary action?

As far as the student returning to that class, or even the school itself...
I most certainty wouldn’t either. In fact I left Bishop O’Dowd High in Oakland, California because of ‘a few’ similar confrontations.
The only way I could see the student possibly returning is if:

- The teacher issued a written and public apology, and
- Is enrolled into some form of "race" or ethnic sensitivity program.

P.S.
Or is outright fired!

Well put.

Couver
Dec 12th, 2006, 10:20 PM
The teacher apologized...let's move on. :)

Wow I'd love to see your reaction if anyone Muslim said this to a person of any other ethnicity or religion. You'd be calling for their blood as usual. :rolleyes:

Apoleb
Dec 12th, 2006, 11:33 PM
:help: about the argument that he should worry about his studies and get back to class.

meyerpl
Dec 13th, 2006, 12:29 AM
yes well you are wrong. standing up for yourself. and refusing to along a racist idiot to treat you like less than a person is not "slinking away". if you think it is. you are wrong, nothing more to it than that. :)
Oh no, you're wrong. You're clearly wrong because you disagree with me. It's as simple as that!:lol:

But seriously, the whole point of a boycott is to punish the target of the boycott. A student refusing to attend class only hurts himself. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

How about if, instead of running from the room screeming, punching walls, throwing desks and refusing to return to class, the young man had stood up for himself appropriately on the spot and told the teacher his remark was not funny or appreciated? He could have told the teacher he was there to receive an education, not harrassment. Perhaps the teacher would have apologized on the spot, sincerely and without being told to. If not, the student could have stood, excused himself and calmly walked to the administration office on a mission.

I tell my boys that they're going to encounter teachers who are stupid, unfair assholes (not in so many words) and that there is an education in that too. An important one, in fact; they're going to encounter such people in academic, professional and social situations for the rest of their lives. An eleventh grade student is coming into adulthood. Would you rather your sons and daughters stand up for themselves, assert themselves and deal with people eyeball to eyeball or run away and demand that somebody else do it for them?

bionic71
Dec 13th, 2006, 12:50 AM
Blakehurst High is in the school district where I teach.
I am very well aware of the situation.

The teacher has made a mistake and should not have made the statement...it was indeed a stupid error to make.
The student is blowing the incident out of proportion...throwing tables and punching walls was an inapproriate response.

This teacher made an error, a big one.....he could have lied and said that he never said it, but he hasn't. He has not been cowardly. He apologized immediately and the situation could have been diffused....however it escalated.

The incident is getting lots of press as it is a year since the rioting at Sydney beaches.

Incidents occur each day in schools.....I was called a "racist ****" by an indigenous student recently...this insult came after I had caught him, pen in hand, doing some rather unsavoury graffitti on a school door. I could very easily have thrown a slur back but thought better of it. However, if I was having a bad day, or other incidents had occured with this student previously, I could easily have made a different decision and said something I may have regretted.

Teachers are human, errors in judgement are made.

Wigglytuff
Dec 13th, 2006, 01:19 AM
Oh no, you're wrong. You're clearly wrong because you disagree with me. It's as simple as that!:lol:

But seriously, the whole point of a boycott is to punish the target of the boycott. A student refusing to attend class only hurts himself. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

How about if, instead of running from the room screeming, punching walls, throwing desks and refusing to return to class, the young man had stood up for himself appropriately on the spot and told the teacher his remark was not funny or appreciated? He could have told the teacher he was there to receive an education, not harrassment. Perhaps the teacher would have apologized on the spot, sincerely and without being told to. If not, the student could have stood, excused himself and calmly walked to the administration office on a mission.

I tell my boys that they're going to encounter teachers who are stupid, unfair assholes (not in so many words) and that there is an education in that too. An important one, in fact; they're going to encounter such people in academic, professional and social situations for the rest of their lives. An eleventh grade student is coming into adulthood. Would you rather your sons and daughters stand up for themselves, assert themselves and deal with people eyeball to eyeball or run away and demand that somebody else do it for them?

i was worried you wouldnt get me little joke. i didnt really feel like going back and forth, so i figure just saying that you are wrong be enough. but no, you wanna have a conversation :ras: :ras:

i understand what you are trying to say. and this is a really good post. but guess what: you are still wrong :p :p :lol: :lol:

seriously, i see what you are saying but this is a teacher, and what he did is wrong and it takes more than "im sorry" to move on.

Wigglytuff
Dec 13th, 2006, 01:20 AM
Hmm...?

Firstly, the teacher is blatantly guilty of perpetrating and projecting a disgustingly irresponsible image upon that 17 year-old. :fiery: :mad:

Teachers are responsible for fostering hope, strength, and desire in students. And school is ‘supposed’ to be a place of knowledge and wisdom.

So what is wrong with this picture? :confused:

Also, I wonder what ‘disciplined’ means? :scratch:
Ever notice how school administrations rarely explain the disciplinary action?

As far as the student returning to that class, or even the school itself...
I most certainty wouldn’t either. In fact I left Bishop O’Dowd High in Oakland, California because of ‘a few’ similar confrontations.
The only way I could see the student possibly returning is if:

- The teacher issued a written and public apology, and
- Is enrolled into some form of "race" or ethnic sensitivity program.

P.S.
Or is outright fired!

exactly!!! :worship: :worship: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

meyerpl
Dec 13th, 2006, 01:47 AM
I'm interested in how you would hold the teacher accountable? Based on some of the post of this board I can only imagine what this kid goes through being a Muslim. And perhaps the last straw was to have his teacher do that to him in front of the whole class. Some kids might now think that if the teacher feels that way it's ok for them to feel that way.
It's a decision that can't be made in a vacuum. I'd need to look at several factors. Looking at two ends of the spectrum: If he was a lousy teacher and this incident fit into a pattern of similar behavior, I'd discipline him to the fullest extent possible, up to and including termination. If he was a respected teacher with a solid history who appears to have shown a lapse in judgment, I'd take a more corrective approach. I'd try to arrange a meeting to include the student, his family and the teacher, during which the student could express himself appropriately. I would require the teacher to listen to the student, his family and apologize. I'd probably require the teacher to attend some training to give him a greater appreciation of the harm such comments can do.
The consequences could escalate from there, depending where the teacher fell on the spectrum.

mykarma
Dec 13th, 2006, 01:47 AM
Blakehurst High is in the school district where I teach.
I am very well aware of the situation.

The teacher has made a mistake and should not have made the statement...it was indeed a stupid error to make.
The student is blowing the incident out of proportion...throwing tables and punching walls was an inapproriate response.

This teacher made an error, a big one.....he could have lied and said that he never said it, but he hasn't. He has not been cowardly. He apologized immediately and the situation could have been diffused....however it escalated.

The incident is getting lots of press as it is a year since the rioting at Sydney beaches.

Incidents occur each day in schools.....I was called a "racist ****" by an indigenous student recently...this insult came after I had caught him, pen in hand, doing some rather unsavoury graffitti on a school door. I could very easily have thrown a slur back but thought better of it. However, if I was having a bad day, or other incidents had occured with this student previously, I could easily have made a different decision and said something I may have regretted.

Teachers are human, errors in judgement are made.
Take a look at what is going on in the world and how Muslims are viewed at this time in our society. This is not a case of calling the kid a jerk, but of calling him a terrorist which is the same as calling him a crazy, fundamental, murderer and worse. None of us know what this kid has to go through or has gone through since 9/11. Just based on the attitudes of some people on this board about Muslims makes me feel for this child. I was raised in an all white neighborhood, went to an all white school for much of my life so I feel as though I can speak on this situation. Of course, my situation doesn't compare to his but I have been in a place where I was different and had to put up with racist attitudes.

For him to react the way he did, I would say that this is not the first incident that he or his family has probably been through. There is nothing that states that this child has a history of throwing chairs and just going off so perhaps this was more than he could take. It really amazes me how easy it is for people that will never be in his situation to judge him for responding to that racist teacher. Yes, I'm calling the teacher a racist because why would that come out of his mouth if he didn't feel that way. If the student was acting in an unruly manner or disrupting the class then perhaps one could say he lost his temper, but this kid did nothing to warrant that type of treatment.

I don't understand why people think he should go back to this teachers class. This is the person that has this students future in his hands. Whether he calls him a terrorist again or not, the student knows how he feels about him. Why should a child have to be in this persons class. This teacher holds his future in his hands? Is this the person that some think this child and his parents should have to deal with. How can his parents trust that this teacher cares about their child's welfare.

If anyone should leave it should be the teacher. Yes, he apologized because he had to to keep his job. As far as the teacher admitting that he called the student a terrorist, he couldn't very well deny it since he said it in front of the whole class. The thing that's really sad is that this kid will wear this scar forever.

Berlin_Calling
Dec 13th, 2006, 02:03 AM
dude thats fucked up.

Apoleb
Dec 13th, 2006, 02:07 AM
Take a look at what is going on in the world and how Muslims are viewed at this time in our society. This is not a case of calling the kid a jerk, but of calling him a terrorist which is the same as calling him a crazy, fundamental, murderer and worse. None of us know what this kid has to go through or has gone through since 9/11. Just based on the attitudes of some people on this board about Muslims makes me feel for this child. I was raised in an all white neighborhood, went to an all white school for much of my life so I feel as though I can speak on this situation. Of course, my situation doesn't compare to his but I have been in a place where I was different and had to put up with racist attitudes.

For him to react the way he did, I would say that this is not the first incident that he or his family has probably been through. There is nothing that states that this child has a history of throwing chairs and just going off so perhaps this was more than he could take. It really amazes me how easy it is for people that will never be in his situation to judge him for responding to that racist teacher. Yes, I'm calling the teacher a racist because why would that come out of his mouth if he didn't feel that way. If the student was acting in an unruly manner or disrupting the class then perhaps one could say he lost his temper, but this kid did nothing to warrant that type of treatment.

I don't understand why people think he should go back to this teachers class. This is the person that has this students future in his hands. Whether he calls him a terrorist again or not, the student knows how he feels about him. Why should a child have to be in this persons class. This teacher holds his future in his hands? Is this the person that some think this child and his parents should have to deal with. How can his parents trust that this teacher cares about their child's welfare.

If anyone should leave it should be the teacher. Yes, he apologized because he had to to keep his job. As far as the teacher admitting that he called the student a terrorist, he couldn't very well deny it since he said it in front of the whole class. The thing that's really sad is that this kid will wear this scar forever.



Enough said.

It's amazing, isn't it, how this thread has turned into a critique of the reaction of the boy. He must be lunatic now for him to react to that, you know. As if people can't lose their temper, especially when faced with such appalling discrimination. How cool to be called a terrorist in front of your class? But no no, he needs to get back to his class and shrug it off, so he can get that A. :haha: I say well done to him and his parents to bring this case into the public, and to highlight a growing and serious problem in racial attitudes. The teacher should either be immediately fired or sent for help. This wouldn't have grown so much if the necessary actions were taken by the school.

meyerpl
Dec 13th, 2006, 02:11 AM
Well, I hope the kid shook-off the "crazy" label by running around screaming, punching walls and throwing desks around. I say "well done" too!

Apoleb
Dec 13th, 2006, 02:22 AM
Well, I hope the kid shook-off the "crazy" label by running around screaming, punching walls and throwing desks around. I say "well done" too!

*yawn* seriously. All this ridiculous analysis of his behavior was based on his own words: "And unable to control my emotions, I began screaming out, I'm not a terrorist. How can you call me a terrorist?

I ran out of the classroom, punching walls, screaming I'm not a terrorist, how can you call me a terrorist?" that's all there is. He was just expressing that he's really angry. Even if he did go crazy for a moment, it's really more than ridiculous (to be respectful) to make this the issue rather than the disgusting case of dicrimination he faced.

But anyway, I really don't know why I'm bothering. You think that's just another case of a teacher saying something "hurtful" to a kid, and yes, he shouldn't care at all about whether the teacher is adequately punnished or not. His fate is in his hand, and he really needs to finish with an A.

bionic71
Dec 13th, 2006, 02:38 AM
Take a look at what is going on in the world and how Muslims are viewed at this time in our society. This is not a case of calling the kid a jerk, but of calling him a terrorist which is the same as calling him a crazy, fundamental, murderer and worse. None of us know what this kid has to go through or has gone through since 9/11. Just based on the attitudes of some people on this board about Muslims makes me feel for this child. I was raised in an all white neighborhood, went to an all white school for much of my life so I feel as though I can speak on this situation. Of course, my situation doesn't compare to his but I have been in a place where I was different and had to put up with racist attitudes.

For him to react the way he did, I would say that this is not the first incident that he or his family has probably been through. There is nothing that states that this child has a history of throwing chairs and just going off so perhaps this was more than he could take. It really amazes me how easy it is for people that will never be in his situation to judge him for responding to that racist teacher. Yes, I'm calling the teacher a racist because why would that come out of his mouth if he didn't feel that way. If the student was acting in an unruly manner or disrupting the class then perhaps one could say he lost his temper, but this kid did nothing to warrant that type of treatment.

I don't understand why people think he should go back to this teachers class. This is the person that has this students future in his hands. Whether he calls him a terrorist again or not, the student knows how he feels about him. Why should a child have to be in this persons class. This teacher holds his future in his hands? Is this the person that some think this child and his parents should have to deal with. How can his parents trust that this teacher cares about their child's welfare.

If anyone should leave it should be the teacher. Yes, he apologized because he had to to keep his job. As far as the teacher admitting that he called the student a terrorist, he couldn't very well deny it since he said it in front of the whole class. The thing that's really sad is that this kid will wear this scar forever.



Hi mykarma...

A response because you addressed my quote directly.....nothing new to say though....as I have been aware of the incident for the past 6 months.

This is not a new occurrence, it happened in June. The incident has been blown to another level in recent weeks as the media has run with it...due to the anniversary of the rioting etc on Sydney beaches one year ago. We must assume he has a good record of prior professional conduct…and that this is an isolated incident.

The apology came instantly, the teacher followed the student outside to do so. The student returned to the classroom but continued to disrupt the lesson and eventually threw a table across the room. The teacher had intended to speak with the student after class, which is standard procedure as he has a duty to continue to teach the other students in the class. Unfortunately this second discussion never eventuated because the student ran out of the room a second time.

As my post above said...the incident could easily have been diffused and discussed properly. The teachers comment were unjustified, unprofessional and very regrettable.
I do not condone such comments at all.
The student response was disproportionate to the actual incident...throwing tables and punching walls.

The best scenario would be for both parties to sit down and discuss and arrive at some understanding. The teacher has apologized and accepts that the comments made were inappropriate. He has made a poor judgement.

As a gay man I have been on the receiving end of many incredibly inappropriate comments as both an adult and child...some directed with intent, some merely ignorant and juvenile. I would be a rich man if I had a $1 for every time I have felt vilified by a comment or slur.....but sometimes it is simply better to move on.

I have no doubt that this boy may indeed have encountered anti muslim slurs before...and it may not be the last time either..sometimes with intent and other times as an error of judgement.

mykarma
Dec 13th, 2006, 02:45 AM
Hi mykarma...

A response because you addressed my quote directly.....nothing new to say though....as I have been aware of the incident for the past 6 months.

This is not a new occurrence, it happened in June. The incident has been blown to another level in recent weeks as the media has run with it...due to the anniversary of the rioting etc on Sydney beaches one year ago. We must assume he has a good record of prior professional conduct…and that this is an isolated incident.

The apology came instantly, the teacher followed the student outside to do so. The student returned to the classroom but continued to disrupt the lesson and eventually threw a table across the room. The teacher had intended to speak with the student after class, which is standard procedure as he has a duty to continue to teach the other students in the class. Unfortunately this second discussion never eventuated because the student ran out of the room a second time.

As my post above said...the incident could easily have been diffused and discussed properly. The teachers comment were unjustified, unprofessional and very regrettable.
I do not condone such comments at all.
The student response was disproportionate to the actual incident...throwing tables and punching walls.

The best scenario would be for both parties to sit down and discuss and arrive at some understanding. The teacher has apologized and accepts that the comments made were inappropriate. He has made a poor judgement.

As a gay man I have been on the receiving end of many incredibly inappropriate comments as both an adult and child...some directed with intent, some merely ignorant and juvenile. I would be a rich man if I had a $1 for every time I have felt vilified by a comment or slur.....but sometimes it is simply better to move on.

I have no doubt that this boy may indeed have encountered anti muslim slurs before...and it may not be the last time either..sometimes with intent and other times as an error of judgement.
I did respond to your post but only because it was the last post that I read. It was not a personal attack on you. The big difference is you're a grown man and a teacher, he is a child and a student. Not only that, being called gay is not the same as being called a gay terrorist if you happen to be of Middle Eastern descent.

mykarma
Dec 13th, 2006, 02:49 AM
Well, I hope the kid shook-off the "crazy" label by running around screaming, punching walls and throwing desks around. I say "well done" too!
At least he didn't leave and come back and shoot up the classroom the way some have. I'd much rather it let out his frustration by screaming and throwing things.

mykarma
Dec 13th, 2006, 02:52 AM
Enough said.

It's amazing, isn't it, how this thread has turned into a critique of the reaction of the boy. He must be lunatic now for him to react to that, you know. As if people can't lose their temper, especially when faced with such appalling discrimination. How cool to be called a terrorist in front of your class? But no no, he needs to get back to his class and shrug it off, so he can get that A. :haha: I say well done to him and his parents to bring this case into the public, and to highlight a growing and serious problem in racial attitudes. The teacher should either be immediately fired or sent for help. This wouldn't have grown so much if the necessary actions were taken by the school.
I tried to give you a rep. but you know the routine. "You must spread ........"
:worship::worship::worship:

bionic71
Dec 13th, 2006, 03:00 AM
I did respond to your post but only because it was the last post that I read. It was not a personal attack on you. The big difference is you're a grown man and a teacher, he is a child and a student.

Not only that, being called gay is not the same as being called a gay terrorist if you happen to be of Middle Eastern descent.

Thats fine...no offense taken at all.

The student wants the situation to be dealt with in an adult and mature fashion...and it has been. The teacher has apologized and has been dealt with at a very high level. The Dept of Education has issued public statements that comments such as these are highly inappropriate. The teacher has a prior history of good conduct and it has been identified as a one off incident....should something occur like this again from the same teacher, then I would fully support the teacher being asked to seek employment outside of the profession.

My analogy was used to highlight the fact that hurtful things are said very often ...sometimes with malice/intent and other times without much thought at all.
I may argue that being called a "disease ridden pervert" (one of the more colourful terms of endearment that I have encountered in years past) could be equally hurtful. It is all about perspective and circumstance.

Discussion and resolution between the teacher and student/his family is the best approach here....

mykarma
Dec 13th, 2006, 03:07 AM
Thats fine...no offensive taken at all.

The student wants the situation to be dealt with an an adult and mature fashion...and it has been. The teacher has apologized and has been dealt with at a very high level. The Dept of Education has issued public statements that comments such as these are highly inappropriate. The teacher has a prior history of good conduct and it has been identified as a one off incident....should something occur like this again from the same teacher, then I would fully support the teacher being asked to seek employment outside of the profession.

My analogy was used to highlight the fact that hurtful things are said very often ...sometimes with malice/intent and other times without much thought at all.
I may argue that being called a "disease ridden pervert" (one of the more colourful terms of endearment that I have encountered in years past) could be equally hurtful. It is all about perspective and circumstance.

Discussion and resolution between the teacher and student/his family is the best approach here....
I agree.

Volcana
Dec 13th, 2006, 03:52 AM
The teacher apologized...let's move on. Horseshit. That apology means nothing. The situation requires two things.

1) That the teacher engage in some serious introspection, and uncover the fear that led him to make such a comment. And then find a way to communicate to the student that such introspection had taken place.

2) The teacher needs to understand what he actually did to his student. Australia is a lot like the USA. There's a lot of bigotry there, and a lot of freedom and opportunity. It's easy for people to not understand how much hostility some people go through.

This 'apology' is a lot like the one from that 'Seinfeld' actor. It's about denial. The teacher is busy apologizing as a way of avoiding confronting his own bigotry.

As for the student, I'm afraid he doesn't have a remedy. Certainly in the USA, a teacher wouldn't be fired over a comment they apologized for making. Or even transferred. Fined, suspended even, but that's the likely extent. And to my limited knwledge of the Australian legal system, there are fewer protections against hate speech than in the USA.

RVD
Dec 13th, 2006, 05:07 AM
Interesting discussion here. Sad, but interesting.
Thank you bionic71 for the intimate details. Your contribution shed even more light on this for me. Still, as a teacher, I'm sure you are aware of the extraordinary position you are in. One that can / does motivate / catapult an individual into achieving great things, or despising society. I’m not for a moment suggesting that the outcome in this particular case will evolve into such, but nowadays people require less of a push to go off the deep end, as evidenced by Columbine [here in the U.S.]. Now wouldn’t it be ironic IF this 17 year-old got that one last nudge [from this teacher] before losing it completely?

My point?

We just never know how deep our words can cut our young.

Also, it is all well and good to say that this 17 year-old or the media is blowing this issue out of proportion, but I’d wager that the kid is still extremely affected by his teacher’s despicably “bad” choice of words [and attitude] and disposition towards folks of Middle astern descent. And like you stated in your post, you can still recall such hate-filled attitudes directed at you. The difference between you and some kid running around shooting the place up may be the positive support you received from family and friends. And only you know the truth in this regard.

Yes teachers are human and thus are prone to bad judgement and mistakes. And in such circumstances, a teacher should be dealt with in a very firm manner, for they are building the future’s next leaders, entrepreneurs, scientists, pro athletes, and yes...serial killers... as far fetched and weird as that sounds.

Best of fortune and much respect to you. :wavey:

bionic71
Dec 13th, 2006, 07:21 AM
Interesting discussion here. Sad, but interesting.
Thank you bionic71 for the intimate details. Your contribution shed even more light on this for me. Still, as a teacher, I'm sure you are aware of the extraordinary position you are in. One that can / does motivate / catapult an individual into achieving great things, or despising society. I’m not for a moment suggesting that the outcome in this particular case will evolve into such, but nowadays people require less of a push to go off the deep end, as evidenced by Columbine [here in the U.S.]. Now wouldn’t it be ironic IF this 17 year-old got that one last nudge [from this teacher] before losing it completely?

My point?

We just never know how deep our words can cut our young.

Also, it is all well and good to say that this 17 year-old or the media is blowing this issue out of proportion, but I’d wager that the kid is still extremely affected by his teacher’s despicably “bad” choice of words [and attitude] and disposition towards folks of Middle astern descent. And like you stated in your post, you can still recall such hate-filled attitudes directed at you. The difference between you and some kid running around shooting the place up may be the positive support you received from family and friends. And only you know the truth in this regard.

Yes teachers are human and thus are prone to bad judgement and mistakes. And in such circumstances, a teacher should be dealt with in a very firm manner, for they are building the future’s next leaders, entrepreneurs, scientists, pro athletes, and yes...serial killers... as far fetched and weird as that sounds.

Best of fortune and much respect to you. :wavey:

Not much to add....replying out of courtesy.

As I posted above...

The student/family wants the situation to be dealt appropriately...and it has been. The teacher has apologized and has been dealt with at a very high level. The teacher has a prior history of good conduct and it has been identified as a one off incident....should something occur like this again from the same teacher, then I would obviously fully support the teacher being asked to seek employment outside of the profession. However, there is no indication that his has happened previously in his career and as a result he has been disciplined accordingly. I see no point of a public lynching.

The print media is running with the story because it is currently news worthy.
We have had other race and ethnicity related stories popping up in the past month...due to the anniversary of last years violence on the Eastern Beaches as well as a recent return to politics for a lunatic politician (Pauline Hanson).
The incident should simply be laid to rest.....the teacher has been disciplined and the student offered a range of options to complete his subject...whether at the same school or elsewhere.

Kunal
Dec 13th, 2006, 07:40 AM
how bout that....a teacher of all people goin at it.!