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View Full Version : Tilden vs. Sharapova - Who Would Win?


South_Paw
Nov 30th, 2006, 09:52 PM
Who do people think would win a match between Bill Tilden at his prime and Maria Sharapova in her current form? Bill would be using his favorite wood racket and Maria would be using the racket she currently plays with? I think Maria would win.

Helen Lawson
Nov 30th, 2006, 09:55 PM
Maria would get killed.

johnoo
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Who do people think would win a match between Bill Tilden at his prime and Maria Sharapova in her current form? Bill would be using his favorite wood racket and Maria would be using the racket she currently plays with? I think Maria would win.

I had to google to see who the hell Bill Tilden was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Tilden I think the difference in rackets would tell.

johnoo
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:22 PM
hmmm
Prison terms
Tilden was first arrested on Nov. 23, 1946 on Sunset Boulevard when he was caught placing his hand in a teenage boy's pants (the boy was a prostitute whose services Tilden had solicited). He could have been charged with a felony ("lewd and lascivious behavior with a minor"), but was charged only with a misdemeanor ("contributing to the delinquency of a minor"). He was sentenced to a year in prison and served 7 1/2 months.

He was arrested again on Jan. 28, 1949, after picking up a 16-year-old hitchhiker and making advances. The new charge could have been prosecuted as a felony, but the judge merely sentenced Tilden to a year on his probation violation and let the punishment for the new molesting charge run concurrently. He served 10 months.

In both cases, apparently, Tilden sincerely believed that his celebrity and his longtime friendship with Hollywood names such as Charlie Chaplin were enough to keep him from paying the consequences of his acts. He therefore defended himself in court in both cases in a far less than vigorous fashion.

After his second incarceration Tilden was increasingly shunned by the tennis world. He was unable to give lessons at most clubs and even on public courts he had fewer clients. At one point he was invited to play at a prestigious professional tournament being held at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel; at the last moment he was told that he could not participate

franny
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:27 PM
maria just for the fact that Tilden's a freak. That and a wooden racket just can't compare to today's rackets.

LH2HBH
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:47 PM
UH - have you ever seen videos from tennis from that day? It's not even the same game -

MARIA WOULD ABSOLUTELY KILL HIM

MisterQ
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Tilden was an extremely cerebral and intelligent player. No doubt Sharapova's hard hitting would be a challenge, but he might be able to figure out a way to use it against her.

It's one of those hypothetical situations which is simply impossible to know, but fun to imagine...

Slampova
Nov 30th, 2006, 11:48 PM
Yeah it would be fun to imagine...
Maria would still kill him though :cool:

jazzfuzion
Dec 1st, 2006, 12:21 AM
tilden was supposedly gay no?

Dominic
Dec 1st, 2006, 12:45 AM
Maria would win 6-0 6-0

thrust
Dec 1st, 2006, 12:57 AM
Get real! Playing with today^s equpment, Tilden would have no trouble with Maria or any other female player.

Rollo
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:02 AM
Yeah it would be fun to imagine...
Maria would still kill him though

I like Maria, but let's get real here...

Kill him? His nickname was "Big" Bill Tilden. Maybe if he was beamed in Star Trek Style direct from the 20s a cold Tilden might, just might lose once to Maria.

But given any amount of practice (or a 3 out of 5 set match) Tilden would be doing the killing my friend.

Exactly how is she going to beat him? Only with power--and any extra power a modern racquet gave her would be balanced by Bill's being a man.

The problem is all the shots she hits for screaming winners against women would be coming back because of Tilden's reach and speed. Have you seen Maria once she has to hit ball after ball after ball? It's why clay is her weakest surface.

And unlike today's top women Tilden would be able to exploit her two-handed backhands with all sorts of slice, or topspin.

He could volley-something she's still improving on.

His serve wouldn't be a puff ball either-he could easily top 100 miles an hour even in those "slow" days. At his best Tilden served with 4 balls in one hand-he would serve 4 aces in a row!

Besides that, he could generate power off of her power.

Put Tilden up against Andy Roddick and he'd get killed, but Maria would get schooled.

The difference between men and women is that big.

RenaSlam.
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:07 AM
Bill would smoke Masha's asshole silly.

égalité
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:25 AM
Masha would double bagel him. Let's be serious.

So Disrespectful
Dec 1st, 2006, 05:59 AM
I can't believe that anyone would say Tilden :lol:

He wouldn't stand any chance at all. Think of how much she would overpower him.

morningglory
Dec 1st, 2006, 06:16 AM
IF he uses a wooden racket with lousy stringing then Masha might JUST beat him. Or... if he uses the doubles alley... anything to compensate for the gender gap in atheltic ability

Dunlop1
Dec 1st, 2006, 08:09 AM
Bill Tilden would put the smackdown on Maria.

First of all Bill is BY FAR the more talented player. Secondly, Bill played in an era where you couldn't just bludgeon your way past opponents; Maria cannot hold a candle to his tennis instincts and court awareness.

Some of you need to watch some old school matches and see how tennis was played.

Another thing is Bill would OVERPOWER her!! Yes. He served almost as big as she did BACK THEN!! Imagine now. He would be cracking the 130s with an Ncode.

I think Hingis would fare better than Maria.

Maybe I'm biased but Maria to me does not have great tennis talent.
She is someone who has been trained from an early age to hit the ball hard and is mentally tough.
Hingis on the other hand has that innate talent for tennis that can't be taught.

Kim's_fan_4ever
Dec 1st, 2006, 09:09 AM
:lol:

hwanmig
Dec 1st, 2006, 10:27 AM
Tilden would be lucky to win a point, the game Tilden employed in his prime is beginner level nowadays.

die_wahrheit
Dec 1st, 2006, 11:07 AM
Tilden withouth adaption to modern rackets?
Then I would say Sharapova wins.
Yes, the game has changed that much.

Paneru
Dec 1st, 2006, 11:12 AM
l UH - have you ever seen videos from tennis from that day? It's not even the same game -

And yet, fucktards still feel the need
to make such fucktarded threads! :p

If Bill was at his prime in the Maria's time,
he'd beat the crap out of Maria. And the
same goes if she were in his time.

tennisbear7
Dec 1st, 2006, 11:31 AM
1) Silly thread
2) You're comparing wooden racquets and metallic ones? Silly.
3) No use speculating.
4) Tilden would beat Maria.
5) Maria is a better person than Tilden.

ioni
Dec 1st, 2006, 12:10 PM
:rolleyes:

Sam L
Dec 1st, 2006, 12:13 PM
I like Maria, but let's get real here...

Kill him? His nickname was "Big" Bill Tilden. Maybe if he was beamed in Star Trek Style direct from the 20s a cold Tilden might, just might lose once to Maria.

But given any amount of practice (or a 3 out of 5 set match) Tilden would be doing the killing my friend.

Exactly how is she going to beat him? Only with power--and any extra power a modern racquet gave her would be balanced by Bill's being a man.

The problem is all the shots she hits for screaming winners against women would be coming back because of Tilden's reach and speed. Have you seen Maria once she has to hit ball after ball after ball? It's why clay is her weakest surface.

And unlike today's top women Tilden would be able to exploit her two-handed backhands with all sorts of slice, or topspin.

He could volley-something she's still improving on.

His serve wouldn't be a puff ball either-he could easily top 100 miles an hour even in those "slow" days. At his best Tilden served with 4 balls in one hand-he would serve 4 aces in a row!

Besides that, he could generate power off of her power.

Put Tilden up against Andy Roddick and he'd get killed, but Maria would get schooled.

The difference between men and women is that big.

Thank you, Rollo. Bill Tilden is GOD! :D

But I voted that Maria will win because even Big Bill and his gay old self will fall in love with Maria's beauty and he won't be able to hit a ball in the court because he'll be so distracted. :)

Rollo
Dec 1st, 2006, 12:49 PM
Thank you, Rollo. Bill Tilden is GOD! :D

But I voted that Maria will win because even Big Bill and his gay old self will fall in love with Maria's beauty and he won't be able to hit a ball in the court because he'll be so distracted. :)

LOL:lol: Knowing Tilden he'd be just as likely to DEMAND the young girl who was tealing HIS thunder just hand over one of her new metal sticks so he could show the young lady just how to play the game.

Dunlop1
Dec 1st, 2006, 12:58 PM
Tilden would be lucky to win a point, the game Tilden employed in his prime is beginner level nowadays.

LOL!! What a joke. I want to know which beginners you have seen that have what can be described as a cannonball serve. Or execute deep groundstrokes, dropshots, lobs, slice lobs, slice their backhand and hit angles for passing shots.

Bill was tall and could run. Watch his matches. He would eat Maria for lunch.

Rollo
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:03 PM
Tilden would be lucky to win a point, the game Tilden employed in his prime is beginner level nowadays.

And what do you base that on?

The game Tilden played was more or less the same as Borg/Mcenroe. So, do you really want to bet that a Borg or Mcenroe in his prime would lose to Sharapova-even with a wood racquet?

There is a huge a difference between metal and wood, but I've seen old timers with wood racquets beat opponents with metal.

Sharapova wouldn't have to be AS GOOD as Tilden, but she would have to be at least near his level.

And when it comes to tennis top women aren't even in the same league as men are.

The Dawntreader
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:22 PM
Or we seriusly having this conversation, about a man who won his last wimbledon 76 years ago?:rolleyes:

Aravanecaravan
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:33 PM
:rolleyes:

You can tell it's the off-season when threads this dumb elicit so many responses.

Dunlop1
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:42 PM
:rolleyes:

You can tell it's the off-season when threads this dumb elicit so many responses.

Why are you upset? At the overwhelming evidence that one-dimensional Pova wouldn't stand a chance against Tilden?

The Dawntreader
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:47 PM
Why are you upset? At the overwhelming evidence that one-dimensional Pova wouldn't stand a chance against Tilden?

What evidence:lol:

You cannot compare the pre-war era to now, its ridiculous:lol:

Sefo
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:48 PM
Was this Tilden a one-dimensional or multi-dimensional tennis player?:hatoff:

ioni
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:59 PM
Was this Tilden a one-dimensional or multi-dimensional tennis player?:hatoff:

does it count ? one-dimensional payers can beat multi-dimensional players :devil: this was said when sharapova won the us open :lol: and beat mauresmo and hennin ...:angel:

Rollo
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:16 PM
You cannot compare the pre-war era to now, its ridiculous:lol:

Sorry, but we can. It may not be a perfect comparison, but......

In 1973 an old (55) "pre-war" Bobby Riggs (Riggs was the 1939 Wimbledon champ) lost to Bilie Jean King in the famous Battle of the Sexes Match.

A younger Riggs would have killed King, as Billie Jean herself has said countless times.

Tilden was easily the equal of Riggs.

The Dawntreader
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:20 PM
Sorry, but we can. It may not be a perfect comparison, but......

In 1973 an old (55) "pre-war" Bobby Riggs (Riggs was the 1939 Wimbledon champ) lost to Bilie Jean King in the famous Battle of the Sexes Match.

A younger Riggs would have killed King, as Billie Jean herself has said countless times.

Tilden was easily the equal of Riggs.

Its a clumsy comparison, we may as well compare Alice marble to Henin-hardenne or something. Sorry if that sounded a bit rude, but i find threads like these a bit pointless when the players that are mentioned are more than half a century apart, and particulary between a male player and a female player who would never play against each other anyway.

Sefo
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:34 PM
He better get killed or I would kill him from the stands.:armed:

ioni
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:39 PM
He better get killed or I would kill him from the stands.:armed:

isn't he dead allready ?

The Dawntreader
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:40 PM
isn't he dead allready ?

yes, which is what makes this thead ludicrous:lol:

Craigy
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:41 PM
Never heard of him :o

The Dawntreader
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:44 PM
Never heard of him :o

Leading male player in the 20's, American:)

ioni
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:46 PM
yes, which is what makes this thead ludicrous:lol:

i know it's scary ...:help: ..as far as i know he died in june 1953 maria wasn't even born at that time :lol: :lol: :lol: it would be a tennis match from the crypts...maybe masha could wake him up with her screams :angel: [sorry ...]

Rollo
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:48 PM
Its a clumsy comparison, we may as well compare Alice marble to Henin-hardenne or something. Sorry if that sounded a bit rude, but i find threads like these a bit pointless when the players that are mentioned are more than half a century apart, and particulary between a male player and a female player who would never play against each other anyway.


It is a sort of pointless thread, but aren't most threads in GM?

Abstract questions can be fun sometimes.:)

As for the comparison being "clumsy"-I'll give you that, but it's the best we've got.

My point is assuming that modern players are miles above the "oldies" is ridiculous.

Since you mentioned Marble vs. Henin.....
Marble d. Brough
Brough d. Gibson
Gibson d. Hard
Hard d. Court
Court d. Evert
Evert d. Navratilova
Naratilova d. Graf
Graf d. Serena Williams
Serena d. Henin

The Dawntreader
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:50 PM
It is a sort of pointless thread, but aren't most threads in GM?

Abstract questions can be fun sometimes.:)


True:lol:

Rollo
Dec 1st, 2006, 03:01 PM
Are you a Venus fan dl05?

I'm hoping she's healthy enough play all the majors this coming year. 2007 could be great with if Masha, Henin, and Momo are challneged by Serena nad Venus, Hingis, and maybe even Davenport.

The Dawntreader
Dec 1st, 2006, 03:05 PM
Are you a Venus fan dl05?

I'm hoping she's healthy enough play all the majors this coming year. 2007 could be great with if Masha, Henin, and Momo are challneged by Serena nad Venus, Hingis, and maybe even Davenport.

Certainly am:D

Yes, having venus fit is half the relief IMO, because her ability makes up the rest. I'm just taking 2007 step by step, just hope she plays well and stays fit.

Along with my two other girls Serena and Linds:D

Sefo
Dec 1st, 2006, 03:15 PM
..as far as i know he died in june 1953 maria wasn't even born at that time :lol: :lol: :lol:

When this dude died, not even Masha's parents were born yet.:lol:

Shimizu Amon
Dec 1st, 2006, 04:49 PM
Well if he already passed away, I have to rephrase this line: she would have kicked his ass on any day!

LH2HBH
Dec 1st, 2006, 04:57 PM
It doesn't matter that he is male people!

This was another era. An era where the name of the game was consistency. The name of the game was to make your opponent make a mistake with spins, slices, angles. There was no such thing as "going for a winner". Masha would simply overpower him. End of story.

South_Paw
Dec 1st, 2006, 04:59 PM
Bill Tilden would put the smackdown on Maria.

First of all Bill is BY FAR the more talented player. Secondly, Bill played in an era where you couldn't just bludgeon your way past opponents; Maria cannot hold a candle to his tennis instincts and court awareness. Might be true, but instincts and athletic ability are not enough. The French player Gael Monfils comes to mind. Watching him play, you get the impression that he is more athletic than most of his opponents. But he doesn't win because he doesn't have the stroke production. I think this is what would happen between Bill and Maria. Bill would be running all over the place making great gets, but it wouldn't be enough. Maria would wear him down.

Another thing is Bill would OVERPOWER her!! Yes. He served almost as big as she did BACK THEN!! Imagine now. He would be cracking the 130s with an Ncode. The rules of this poll are that Bill would play with the style and equipment he used at his peak. He would not be given the chance to train with modern day equipment. So this poll is about the level of men's tennis played in the 20's versus today's women's tennis. The game has come a LONG way since the 20's. I think the top women of today would beat the top men of Tilden's day (assuming they played the with the style and equipment of the 20's). Someone posted a bio of Tilden saying he didn't even start tennis until he was ~19? When did Maria start? Could a man or woman in today's game start at 19 and become the best in the world? No way. It was an amateur game back then.

Helen Lawson
Dec 1st, 2006, 06:40 PM
That story about him sticking his hand down some guy's pants sounds hot. Where the hell is a Bill Tilden when you need one, Helen hasn't seen that kind of action in awhile.

If you think changing wood for metal makes up for Big Masha being a girl, I think you're living in a dream world.

Rollo
Dec 1st, 2006, 07:14 PM
Maria would wear him down.
Wear him down with what? Her famous consistency? Right. Clay is her weakest surface South_Paw



It doesn't matter that he is male people! This was another era. An era where the name of the game was consistency.

Not exactly. Ellsworth Vines won by serving aces galore in the 30s. He once served an ace on center court that was so fast that people swore they never saw the ball.

Tilden beat up on Vines until he was too old.

Go back and read the part about where he held 4 balls in one hand (that should give you an idea of just how bih he was) and then would serve 4 aces in a row.

The name of the game was to make your opponent make a mistake with spins, slices, angles. There was no such thing as "going for a winner". Masha would simply overpower him. End of story.


If you're really interested in tennis then I suggest you read Tilden's story on how to play the game. It's called The Art of Lawn Tennis and is free on the web:)

http://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/TilTenn.html

Rollo
Dec 1st, 2006, 07:20 PM
Someone posted a bio of Tilden saying he didn't even start tennis until he was ~19? When did Maria start? Could a man or woman in today's game start at 19 and become the best in the world? No way. It was an amateur game back then.

Amateur in name only. Tilden made big bucks under the table and later became a pro.

Players have started late and become champions. Part of what made Tilden great was he used the off season (does Maria really have an off-season with all those exhibitions?) to work on his weaknesses. One year he did nothing for 4 months but work on his backhand.

One reason Maria won the US Open this year was that she took time off to improve her conditioning.

thrust
Dec 1st, 2006, 07:30 PM
If Tilden was in his prime today, none of the ladies would have a chance against him. Not too many male players would either, as he would be using the same equipment and training techniques today^s players do. I think that great players of any era could compete with players of any other era.

MisterQ
Dec 1st, 2006, 09:12 PM
It doesn't matter that he is male people!

This was another era. An era where the name of the game was consistency. The name of the game was to make your opponent make a mistake with spins, slices, angles. There was no such thing as "going for a winner". Masha would simply overpower him. End of story.

There were plenty of winners in the older game. Sometimes it required more patience and point construction for a groundstroke winner to be possible, but they happened. This is especially true because the game was usually played on grass, where the ball didn't sit up. And that's just talking about groundstroke winners --- if you include volleys and passing shots as winners, there were winners all the time.

Most of today's players also aim to make their opponent make a mistake (through raw power, spins, or running the opponent). It's an important part of tennis strategy in any era.

South_Paw
Dec 2nd, 2006, 12:02 AM
Amateur in name only. Amateur in practice. How many events a year did they play? How many times a week did they practice? How many times a day did they practice? Did they have trainers, coaches, nutritionists, psychologists?

Players have started late and become champions. Part of what made Tilden great was he used the off season (does Maria really have an off-season with all those exhibitions?) to work on his weaknesses. One year he did nothing for 4 months but work on his backhand. Would Maria be a better player if she took 4 months off a year? That's a topic for another thread.

One reason Maria won the US Open this year was that she took time off to improve her conditioning. I agree with this statement, though I'm not sure what it has to do with the poll. Maria was smart to take that time off. It paid off big time for her. I remember people complaining about her taking all that time off. Turns out she did the right thing.

!<blocparty>!
Dec 2nd, 2006, 12:28 AM
:weirdo:

darrinbaker00
Dec 2nd, 2006, 03:30 AM
At his best, Bill Tilden would have beaten Roger Federer. Maria Sharapova, or any female player from any era, would have been lucky to win a point off him, much less a match. Next topic, please.

Jakeev
Dec 2nd, 2006, 08:33 AM
I like Maria, but let's get real here...

Kill him? His nickname was "Big" Bill Tilden. Maybe if he was beamed in Star Trek Style direct from the 20s a cold Tilden might, just might lose once to Maria.

But given any amount of practice (or a 3 out of 5 set match) Tilden would be doing the killing my friend.

Exactly how is she going to beat him? Only with power--and any extra power a modern racquet gave her would be balanced by Bill's being a man.

The problem is all the shots she hits for screaming winners against women would be coming back because of Tilden's reach and speed. Have you seen Maria once she has to hit ball after ball after ball? It's why clay is her weakest surface.

And unlike today's top women Tilden would be able to exploit her two-handed backhands with all sorts of slice, or topspin.

He could volley-something she's still improving on.

His serve wouldn't be a puff ball either-he could easily top 100 miles an hour even in those "slow" days. At his best Tilden served with 4 balls in one hand-he would serve 4 aces in a row!

Besides that, he could generate power off of her power.

Put Tilden up against Andy Roddick and he'd get killed, but Maria would get schooled.

The difference between men and women is that big.

Anyone who bothered not to read this post his a complete moron if they continued to post in this thread.

Rollo as usual:worship:

Dunlop1
Dec 2nd, 2006, 09:44 AM
It doesn't matter that he is male people!

This was another era. An era where the name of the game was consistency. The name of the game was to make your opponent make a mistake with spins, slices, angles. There was no such thing as "going for a winner". Masha would simply overpower him. End of story.

Are you serious??? Do you not know anything about tennis?

The name of the game back then was attacking tennis. There was a number of reasons for this. A lot of tournaments were played on grass. Couple that with the fact that they played with wood racquets which were very heavy and had very small racquet heads.
The heaviness of the racquet made it hard to generate the type of racquet head speed that people can today with much lighter racquets. So they had to hit their strokes with very long swings to generate pace. Also the tiny racquet heads they played with made it VERY hard to generate topspin.

This made it very beneficial to come to net rather than stay at the baseline which is how the majority of tennis players played back then. Coming to net is attacking play. It IS going for a winner.

If someone is hitting to your backhand from the baseline, they are not attacking your backhand. But if someone is hitting approach shots to your backhand and forcing you to pass him/her from that wing, that person IS attacking your backhand. Coming to net is the Original attacking play!

After all I've said about the racquets, Bill using wood racquets was bombing serves in the 100s back then. (Which is just under what Maria's first serves typically are). Now back then, the rules specified you had to stay anchored to the ground with your left leg when you served. You couldn't propel yourself off the ground with the left leg such that both feet would be off the ground at the same time (watch some old matches. It's actually funny to see). Try this at home and see how your serve speed decreases.

If he played today (with graphite racquets and using both feet in serve), he would OUTSERVE Maria. Tiny Justine Henin outserves Maria, yet people are saying she would smoke Bill. :help:

It totally matters that he is male. The question was who would win if both players "IN THEIR PRIMES" played a match.
Big Bill in his prime moves faster, serves bigger, hits harder, has better all around tennis game than Maria.

Game.Set.Match Tilden ;)