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theFutureisNow
Nov 16th, 2006, 05:54 AM
These players are the future of women's tennis. This is very bad news for anyone who dislikes Maria or wants to root for an American. Some of them might want to consider giving up on women's tennis for a while. The demographics for Maria are about as favorable as they've been for any player in 10 years. Not only is she light years ahead of all of the other teenagers, there aren't very many 20-22 year olds that are even close to her. There are zero 16 year olds in the top 100. The only 17 or 18 year old even worth mentioning at this point is Nicole Vaidisova. But she has done pretty much nothing so far, with zero tier 2 or better victories. By comparison Maria finished 32nd at 16, and 4th at 17.

Anyone 22 or younger in the top 15 is listed; anyone 20 or younger in the top 40, and all other teenagers in the top 100. If you havent made it to these rankings by those ages, chances are pretty good that you will never come close to the top. The clear top 7, and 17 out of 23, are from Eastern Europe. There is no future for women's tennis in the USA as the list should make obvious. The only American teenager that qualifies is Vania King. But she is only 5' 5" and has one tier 3 win ever. She would be overachieving to ever crack the top 10. It is hard to imagine that USA tennis could ever look so amazingly bleak, but the facts are undeniable.

The Current and Future Top Players-
2 SHARAPOVA, MARIA----------RUS-----19
4 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA-----RUS-----21
10 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE---------CZE-----17
11 SAFINA, DINARA------------RUS-----20
12 JANKOVIC, JELENA----------SRB-----21
13 CHAKVETADZE, ANNA-------RUS-----19
14 IVANOVIC, ANA-------------SCG-----19

Still Have a Decent Shot-
20 PEER, SHAHAR--------------ISR-----19
22 GOLOVIN, TATIANA---------FRA-----18
30 KIRILENKO, MARIA----------RUS-----19
35 KRAJICEK, MICHAELLA-------NED-----17

Chances not Great, but Dont Give Up Yet-
38 POUTCHKOVA, OLGA--------RUS-----19
41 SAFAROVA, LUCIE----------CZE-----19
49 REZAI, ARAVANE-----------FRA-----19
50 KING, VANIA---------------USA-----17
57 RADWANSKA, AGN.---------POL-----17
62 PIRONKOVA, TSVETANA-----BUL-----19
71 GAJDOSOVA, JARMILA------SVK-----19
74 VASILISA BARDINA---------RUS-----19
91 ALEKSANDRA WOZNIAK-----CAN-----19
92 AZARENKA, VICTORIA-------BLR-----17
96 YUNG-JAN CHAN------------TPE-----17
99 SAVCHUK, OLGA------------UKR-----19

OZTENNIS
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:25 AM
I think Radawanska has a better shot than Krajicek and Kirilenko...

tennnisfannn
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:51 AM
and who would have thought that hingis winning 3 slams at 16 would only end up with 2 more. No one can see the future, some players who look promising may fizzle out, some may just catch fire later and set the tour abalze

OZTENNIS
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:52 AM
and who would have thought that hingis winning 3 slams at 16 would only end up with 2 more. No one can see the future, some players who look promising may fizzle out, some may just catch fire later and set the tour abalze

great point!

cant really see kuznetsova doing too much, or safina...

jazar
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:54 AM
Chances not Great, but Dont Give Up Yet-
38 POUTCHKOVA, OLGA--------RUS-----19
41 SAFAROVA, LUCIE----------CZE-----19
49 REZAI, ARAVANE-----------FRA-----19
50 KING, VANIA---------------USA-----17
57 RADWANSKA, AGN.---------POL-----17
62 PIRONKOVA, TSVETANA-----BUL-----19
71 GAJDOSOVA, JARMILA------SVK-----19
74 VASILISA BARDINA---------RUS-----19
91 ALEKSANDRA WOZNIAK-----CAN-----19
92 AZARENKA, VICTORIA-------BLR-----17
96 YUNG-JAN CHAN------------TPE-----17
99 SAVCHUK, OLGA------------UKR-----19

come one, a lot of these girls are only 17. they still have a great chance to make it to the top. radwanska, who is a tremendous athlete and a great mover on court, has only just left playing juniors earlier this year and has climbed about 300 places. if she carries on like that next year she will be top 20. its the same with azarenka. earlier this year she was junior world #1. the others are 19 and yeah, some players make it to the top before then but they are still teenagers and if you give them a proper chance they can getright up there.

vaidisova and inavovic are very talented and hit the ball great but need to work to movement and mental toughness then they will properly break through and win some huge tournaments and go on to dominate with sharapova.

OZTENNIS
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:57 AM
give me a break! why do u all think sharapova will dominate? shes so overrated! justine and serena would crush her @ their best

tennisbear7
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:58 AM
Hmm.

The future tennis champions will have been very poor junior players. 90%.

Honestly, if you think about it, Martina is about the only one I can think of who has had a really huge junior + pro career. Others? Who saw JHH as a 5-time GS champion when she was a junior? She won the French, but so what? The tennis champions of the future will not be determined by their juniors credentials. I mean, what happened to Barbora Strycova? :tape:

People mature at different times. Give them a break :tape::help: Some players can just burst onto scene and start bagging slams.

DutchieGirl
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:06 AM
So what if there's no 16 year olds in the top 100 right now? It's damn hard to get in there, especially with AER - last year there were 2 - Nicole and Misa...but it's been declining since AER was introduced anyway. We'll see what happens, but there are still alot of players who have a good shot even if they are already 17/18/19!

xin_hui
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:10 AM
hmmm...why do i think this thread was started with a lot of bias towards one's own favorite players in mind :scratch:

too much of a condenscending tone

theFutureisNow
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:13 AM
come one, a lot of these girls are only 17. they still have a great chance to make it to the top. radwanska, who is a tremendous athlete and a great mover on court, has only just left playing juniors earlier this year and has climbed about 300 places. if she carries on like that next year she will be top 20. its the same with azarenka. earlier this year she was junior world #1. the others are 19 and yeah, some players make it to the top before then but they are still teenagers and if you give them a proper chance they can getright up there.


Well I did put them on the list as having a chance to succeed. But by top I mean top 10 quality player with a chance to win majors. Considering there are already 11 people roughly their age ahead of the third group listed it will be tough for them to break through. That doesnt even include all the older players who will hang on to their spot for a while still. Obviously some people mature later than others, but I would guess that almost all future champions have had some sort of significant achievement as a teenager.

theFutureisNow
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:20 AM
give me a break! why do u all think sharapova will dominate? shes so overrated! justine and serena would crush her @ their best

She has not only lapped the field of players her age, she has lapped it several times over.

She is the only player under 21 to win a major, and probably has more tier 1 or better victories than everyone under 21 put together.

By the way, Maria is 2-1 vs Serena since turning 17. She is much better now.

hingisGOAT
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:22 AM
i guess people forget that karatancheva was younger and better than vaidisova & ivanovic before her "incident". imo she will come back strong and be better than all of them

Grice
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:26 AM
yes the stats on the future of USA womens tennis is indeed shocking.

Dani12
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:28 AM
Ana and Nicole..

OZTENNIS
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:33 AM
She has not only lapped the field of players her age, she has lapped it several times over.

She is the only player under 21 to win a major, and probably has more tier 1 or better victories than everyone under 21 put together.

By the way, Maria is 2-1 vs Serena since turning 17. She is much better now.

so? serena hasnt played anywhere near her best since '03. H2H means nothing.

DutchieGirl
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:37 AM
i guess people forget that karatancheva was younger and better than vaidisova & ivanovic before her "incident". imo she will come back strong and be better than all of them

:haha:

Junex
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:53 AM
i guess people forget that karatancheva was younger and better than vaidisova & ivanovic before her "incident". imo she will come back strong and be better than all of them

i am not sure if you serious or just being sarcastic...


But I belive sesil will be back with a bang...she might have used the two year break to work hard and bulk up....with her talent, and the power she will gain..she will crushed everyone!!!!!

hingisGOAT
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:58 AM
i am not sure if you serious or just being sarcastic...


But I belive sesil will be back with a bang...she might have used the two year break to work hard and bulk up....with her talent, and the power she will gain..she will crushed everyone!!!!!

i'm serious. she was younger than them (way younger than ivanovic), ranked right below them, and moved around the court ten times faster

hdfb
Nov 16th, 2006, 08:01 AM
Well come on, don't count out late bloomers. Surely Alicia Molik and definitely Lindsay Davenport have shown us that.

Moreover there may be some exciting new talent that will take the tennis world by storm without us knowing yet at this point. I mean who the heck knew Sharapova when she was 14-15?

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 08:31 AM
I'd heard of Sharapova when she was 15.

I once watched an interview that had Mary Pierce, Jen Capriati and Billie Jean King and the question was asked whether womens tennis had moved past the mens.

They believed in popularity-wise that the womens tour had eclipsed the mens , but to what extent has it moved past men or hasn't in terms of the game?

fufuqifuqishahah
Nov 16th, 2006, 08:43 AM
this isn't a very good thread... you just did it based on current rankings which fluctuate. it does not accurately reflect an individual's potential.

if you did this thread 4 years ago... you'd be saying maria sharapova and a bunch of other girls have "Chances not Great, but Dont Give Up Yet"

Mitch01
Nov 16th, 2006, 08:43 AM
I'd heard of Sharapova when she was 15.

I once watched an interview that had Mary Pierce, Jen Capriati and Billie Jean King and the question was asked whether womens tennis had moved past the mens.

They believed in popularity-wise that the womens tour had eclipsed the mens , but to what extent has it moved past men or hasn't in terms of the game?

I've been hearing the Sharapova hype for a long time as well. At least as far back as when she was 14.

Has the women's tour really eclipsed the men's in popularity? Maybe in Europe. I really don't see that anywhere else. For instance, in Canada, we get a shitload of ATP events televised, but the ONE women's-only tournament that's televised here is the Rogers Cup. I think that around the late 90's -early 2000's, women's tennis was on a huge upswing with Kournikova and the Williams Sisters being such huge public figures, but it seems to have waned a lot since then. At least here in North America.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 08:46 AM
But couldn't you say that there's more house-hold names.

Mitch01
Nov 16th, 2006, 08:55 AM
Now? I wouldn't say so. A few years ago we had Kournikova, Williams x2 (at their peaks), Seles, Capriati, Graf; all incredibly famous and well-known athletes. Now, we have Sharapova. To be brutally honest, the average person here doesn't know or care about a Henin-Hardenne or a Mauresmo or a Petrova. Maybe it's different in other parts of the world, I don't know; obviously in Belgium for instance it's going to be a lot different. But I believe that Kournikova, Willamsx2, Seles had far more worldwide appeal than any of the current players do, bar perhaps Sharapova.

goldenlox
Nov 16th, 2006, 10:48 AM
One player I thought showed some talent this year is Golovin.
She is a good young player.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:36 AM
Golovin showed brief yet inviting glimpses of why she's billed as the next 'big thing' - Miami. However, I think she'll hit a Safina problem if she's not cafeful of "missing the train" as Marat puts it. Although, it's hard to believe that she's only 18 I think, so I believe that she got a good 3 or 4 years to twiddle her thumbs and do as she pleases, hovering aroung the mid 20's.

Billy Moonshine
Nov 16th, 2006, 12:08 PM
Golovin showed brief yet inviting glimpses of why she's billed as the next 'big thing' - Miami. However, I think she'll hit a Safina problem if she's not cafeful of "missing the train" as Marat puts it. Although, it's hard to believe that she's only 18 I think, so I believe that she got a good 3 or 4 years to twiddle her thumbs and do as she pleases, hovering aroung the mid 20's.

Do you think safina has missed the train?

goldenlox
Nov 16th, 2006, 12:28 PM
Safina had her best year this year.
She might have made the YEC, but she got ill during the indoor season.

She might not be a future #1, but she's going to be a part of that 6-10 mix
that tries to get to the YEC.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 12:32 PM
Billymoonshone:
No, not now she hadn't. But Marat did make those famous calls for Dinara to shape up and take her chances. And to her credit she has done it perfectly. But I just used that as an example. If you ask me, I think Dinara could have been a top ten fixture two years ago. She had the game then, but didn't have the mental stability to break through. With a new coach, she's done extremelly well.

Shonami Slam
Nov 16th, 2006, 12:35 PM
not a great list.
it merely represents 2006, but gives nothing to rising aspect, advancments and quality.
AND - it's only top100. check out top300, then you'll flsh some big names.

as for late bloomers - most players don't just bloom out of no where.
alot of cases are single handed players, because it's a game the requires much much more experience, learning and strengthning, as well as the confidence to play it all-time with aggresion.
that would be the case for Mauresmo, Molik, Smashnova, Farina-Elia, Schivone and others (including Federer on the men's tour, mind you).
sure - they all showed signs of advancments early on, but the big boom came since it all clicked togheter (finally).
however - most youngsters aren't single handed, and most don't have a complicated game that requirs that extra time.
but you never know who might burst within a few months.

Nicolás89
Nov 16th, 2006, 12:41 PM
Melisa Miranda is the future of tennis:tape:

goldenlox
Nov 16th, 2006, 12:41 PM
There are a lot of talented teens who will have good careers.
The question is are any going to win majors, like Sveta and Maria did as teens.
And can they join those 2 in the top 5.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 12:52 PM
I think Elena Vesnina will approach the top twenty next year. I think her game has come along way. She was in the match with Jankovic in Linz and just somehow faded, likewise against Amelie in Moscow. However, I'd like to see her get to a semi final first.

goldenlox
Nov 16th, 2006, 01:01 PM
I don't understand how Vesnina doesn't have her own forum, but Bardini does

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 01:31 PM
I agree. Doesn't Bardina's father walk around tournaments barefoot? Thats what Maria said.... she thought it was"cool"

goldenlox
Nov 16th, 2006, 01:48 PM
When we talk about the future of women's tennis, lets not forget this girl -

http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/image/gallery/IO_21565_gallery.JPG

Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova (RUS) at the Wimbledon (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=241405&page=2#) Champions Ball

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 01:57 PM
I saw a youtube clip with her playing Nicole... has a lot of potential. Very much a carbon copy of Mary, Nicole and Maria. Bolliteri students hey... I'll be expecting to see more of her next year. Top ten in three years for sure.

Harju.
Nov 16th, 2006, 03:12 PM
Golovin showed brief yet inviting glimpses of why she's billed as the next 'big thing' - Miami. However, I think she'll hit a Safina problem if she's not cafeful of "missing the train" as Marat puts it. Although, it's hard to believe that she's only 18 I think, so I believe that she got a good 3 or 4 years to twiddle her thumbs and do as she pleases, hovering aroung the mid 20's.
tati's problem is her ankle.

she almost won against amelie and kim (#1 and #2 then) in paris and antwerp. then the inspiring tennis in miami and the injury came. she was struggling for a few months before coming back strong in USO by reaching her first QF in GS and almost won against maria. weeks later, she reached her first final of the season @ stuttgart and got her first big win against nikkie v (6-2 6-0) before she got injured again. with two injuries in a season, she still managed to stay in top 25.

if she can stay injury-free, she is a top 10 material.
at least i think so.

RenaSlam.
Nov 16th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Enna, the future is NOW.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Yeah I considered that. It doesn't help when she doesn't really have a massive weapon.

RenaSlam.
Nov 16th, 2006, 03:19 PM
tati's problem is her ankle.

she almost won against amelie and kim (#1 and #2 then) in paris and antwerp. then the inspiring tennis in miami and the injury came. she was struggling for a few months before coming back strong in USO by reaching her first QF in GS and almost won against maria. weeks later, she reached her first final of the season @ stuttgart and got her first big win against nikkie v (6-2 6-0) before she got injured again. with two injuries in a season, she still managed to stay in top 25.

if she can stay injury-free, she is a top 10 material.
at least i think so.

For sure, she has come into her own this season and actually has better strategy. The serve is working well for her and the HUGE FH will serve her well for the rest of her career.

If she can get more mentally tough next season, I don't think a slam SF or F is out of the question.

Harju.
Nov 16th, 2006, 03:22 PM
Yeah I considered that. It doesn't help when she doesn't really have a massive weapon.
erm, have you seen her match post USO? her serve is a major weapon now when it's on. she can easily get few cheap points and a couple of aces. her return serve was impressive. check out her match against nikkie v. she had like 5-6 return winners against one of the best server on tour and her footwork/anticipation is one of the best amongst the young players. and not to mention her forehand.

goldenlox
Nov 16th, 2006, 04:17 PM
It's in Golovin's own hands. The same for Nicole and Sesil.
They all have ability, they have to train hard and train smart,
and develop their talent.

miffedmax
Nov 16th, 2006, 04:30 PM
Looking at the future is fun, but futile.

Six years ago, if you were expecting a lanky blonde Russian lass to be contending for No. 1, you probably would have picked Dementieva. Like I did.

Four years ago, you would have been asking yourself, Damn, can anybody beat the Williams sisters?

Two years ago, who would have thought Mauresmo would win two Slams in a season?

So by all means, speculate away and have fun. But don't be surprised if your projections aren't taken too seriously.

(Of course, I'm still annointing Alexa Glatch as the "next Dementieva." And I mean that as a great compliment.)

DutchieGirl
Nov 16th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Golovin showed brief yet inviting glimpses of why she's billed as the next 'big thing' - Miami. However, I think she'll hit a Safina problem if she's not cafeful of "missing the train" as Marat puts it. Although, it's hard to believe that she's only 18 I think, so I believe that she got a good 3 or 4 years to twiddle her thumbs and do as she pleases, hovering aroung the mid 20's.

Tati is 18 BUT...she's almost 19, and there have even been questions raised about how old she really is in the past...

goldenlox
Nov 16th, 2006, 05:59 PM
Why would she lie to take years off her age?
She couldn't play a full schedule until she turned 18.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:52 PM
Tati is 18 BUT...she's almost 19, and there have even been questions raised about how old she really is in the past...

Wow!

But Tatiana did play a full schedual last year. She played in 22 events believe it or not. Remeber, she was inside the top 30 at 16, which meant that she could present a case to the WTA as to why she believed she should have more tournament play. Maria did this, as did Nicole.

tennistuff
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:11 PM
this isn't a very good thread... you just did it based on current rankings which fluctuate. it does not accurately reflect an individual's potential.

if you did this thread 4 years ago... you'd be saying maria sharapova and a bunch of other girls have "Chances not Great, but Dont Give Up Yet"

I agree:bounce:

wally1
Nov 16th, 2006, 08:13 PM
The Current and Future Top Players-
2 SHARAPOVA, MARIA----------RUS-----19
4 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA-----RUS-----21
10 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE---------CZE-----17
11 SAFINA, DINARA------------RUS-----20
12 JANKOVIC, JELENA----------SRB-----21
13 CHAKVETADZE, ANNA-------RUS-----19
14 IVANOVIC, ANA-------------SCG-----19

Still Have a Decent Shot-
20 PEER, SHAHAR--------------ISR-----19
22 GOLOVIN, TATIANA---------FRA-----18
30 KIRILENKO, MARIA----------RUS-----19
35 KRAJICEK, MICHAELLA-------NED-----17

Chances not Great, but Dont Give Up Yet-
38 POUTCHKOVA, OLGA--------RUS-----19
41 SAFAROVA, LUCIE----------CZE-----19
49 REZAI, ARAVANE-----------FRA-----19
50 KING, VANIA---------------USA-----17
57 RADWANSKA, AGN.---------POL-----17
62 PIRONKOVA, TSVETANA-----BUL-----19
71 GAJDOSOVA, JARMILA------SVK-----19
74 VASILISA BARDINA---------RUS-----19
91 ALEKSANDRA WOZNIAK-----CAN-----19
92 AZARENKA, VICTORIA-------BLR-----17
96 YUNG-JAN CHAN------------TPE-----17
99 SAVCHUK, OLGA------------UKR-----19The one thing I find depressing about this list is that they all fundamentally play the same way. Baseliners with double handed-backhands, who are at best only semi-competent at the net. Where's the variety? Maybe some of them will learn that one thing which currently seperates Mauresmo and Henin-Hardenne from the rest, is that they are actually able to volley.

theFutureisNow
Nov 16th, 2006, 10:14 PM
this isn't a very good thread... you just did it based on current rankings which fluctuate. it does not accurately reflect an individual's potential.

if you did this thread 4 years ago... you'd be saying maria sharapova and a bunch of other girls have "Chances not Great, but Dont Give Up Yet"

So would you rather me just randomly guess which players are good? If you look at rankings trajectory and age it more accurately reflects potential than any other quick measurement. Im not saying this is the best list you can possibly make or that anyone can predict the future with any certainty, but it is the best quick assessment that I have seen on the subject. Feel free to link to anything better.

If I did it 4 years ago, I would say that Maria is easily the best 15 year old.
If I did it 3 years ago, I would be saying that Sharapova was going to be the future #1.


------------Born----15------16------17------18------19
--------------------------------------------------------
Davenport---76-----339----159------20-------6------12 Mauresmo---79------na-----290-----159----109------29 VWilliams----80-----204-----204------22------5-------3
Hingis-------80------16-------4-------1-------2-------1
SWilliams----81------na------99------20------4-------6
HeninH------82------na------na------69-----45-------7
Clijsters-----83------na------47------18------5-------4
Sharapova---87----186------32-------4-------4-------2
Vaidisova----89-----72------15------10

Best 15 year old currently- 402 Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova
Best 16 year old currently- 181 Tamira Paszek

Historically- I would guess that no #1 player or multiple slam winner has ever failed to crack the top 30 as a teenager. If someone wants to look this up to make sure they can. Even by 17 the large majority were top 20 players. When I say "chances not great", what it really means for the 19 year olds on the bottom of the list is "almost no chance at all to reach #1".

Currently- If you are a Vaidisova fan 2006 has to be pretty discouraging. Still no tier 2 victories. Also, she was better than Maria as a 16 year old, but by 17 Maria had such superior results that you cant even compare the two anymore. Maybe some current known player will exponentially improve, but right now there is nobody else. Unless they are younger than 15, you can be almost certain that there are no other Hingis or Sharapova level players ready to succeed by 17.

goldenlox
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:33 PM
Vaidisova is no cinch to be a solid top 10 player.
Jelena, Anna C, Dinara and Ana I are right behind her, and
any or all of them might have better careers than Nicole.

DutchieGirl
Nov 17th, 2006, 03:02 AM
Why would she lie to take years off her age?
She couldn't play a full schedule until she turned 18.

It is alleged to have happend when she moved from Russia to France... sorry but there was no AER around then - that's why. I don't know if it's true or not anyway. But I have heard that she should be 2 years older (from people in tennis). :shrug:

DutchieGirl
Nov 17th, 2006, 03:04 AM
Wow!

But Tatiana did play a full schedual last year. She played in 22 events believe it or not. Remeber, she was inside the top 30 at 16, which meant that she could present a case to the WTA as to why she believed she should have more tournament play. Maria did this, as did Nicole.

No, it means that she changed her age before AER was invented - if she did...see my above post. ;)

DutchieGirl
Nov 17th, 2006, 03:06 AM
Unless they are younger than 15, you can be almost certain that there are no other Hingis or Sharapova level players ready to succeed by 17.

No, because as mentioned before, the AER makes that damn near impossible these days! Hingis was the last to just miss out on it, and only because she was already playing on the tour fulltime at age 15... she was still under 18 when it was brought out, but they let her keep playing.

Shonami Slam
Nov 17th, 2006, 06:20 AM
The one thing I find depressing about this list is that they all fundamentally play the same way. Baseliners with double handed-backhands, who are at best only semi-competent at the net. Where's the variety? Maybe some of them will learn that one thing which currently seperates Mauresmo and Henin-Hardenne from the rest, is that they are actually able to volley.


you obviously haven't seen all of them play.

I mean sure, the double handed-baselining, but it's an era where the differences are how people play from the back.

and as i already said - complicated games require more time.
it's easier to begin with a strong serve and come back on it, than actually learn how to construct the point, come up when it's right and finish with the superb volley.
those kind of players are always going to take more time.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 17th, 2006, 06:38 AM
No, it means that she changed her age before AER was invented - if she did...see my above post. ;)

So what do you presume happened if she did not change her age? Why did she play in so many events at just 17?

DutchieGirl
Nov 17th, 2006, 06:56 AM
So what do you presume happened if she did not change her age? Why did she play in so many events at just 17?

?? At 17 you are allowed to play 15 events, plus GSs and you can ask for 1 extra if you are top 50 (and I'm not sure if you get anything extra if you are gold/silver exempt). I dunno how many she played - I will go look it up now. But I'll bet it won't have been more than 20 for the year that she was 17. And I'm saying that she should be 2 years older...so I don't exactly get what you are asking.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 17th, 2006, 07:00 AM
Im positive she played 22

DutchieGirl
Nov 17th, 2006, 07:02 AM
Im positive she played 22

It probably has to do with her exempt status, but it has nothing to do with her changing her age. That was said to have been doen when she moved from Russia to France, when she was very young, and she can't exactly change her age BACK now, can she? :lol:

DutchieGirl
Nov 17th, 2006, 07:04 AM
Im positive she played 22

:scratch: It was 21 - not sure how she got the extra 1, but AER goes from b'day to b'day, not by year.

MyskinaManiac
Nov 17th, 2006, 07:11 AM
No, it was 22. According to the wtatour site, her results for 2005 were 33-22. We all know that she hasn't won a title yet, so I haven't miss read it.

DutchieGirl
Nov 17th, 2006, 07:43 AM
No, it was 22. According to the wtatour site, her results for 2005 were 33-22. We all know that she hasn't won a title yet, so I haven't miss read it.

Yes, and as I just explained AER goes from BIRTHDAY to BIRTHDAY and NOT by the year. :p So it WAS 21 when she was 17 and not 22. ;) Her birthday is 25th Jan, not 1st Jan. ;)

MyskinaManiac
Nov 17th, 2006, 10:03 AM
Close enough

DutchieGirl
Nov 17th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Close enough

...is not good enough in this case. :p

pla
Nov 17th, 2006, 05:53 PM
Once again and I hope it's for the last tim. The possibility of Tatiana being older is close to 0! Because when she went to france she was a quasi-baby.

Those rumors are frequently used for non-Western players who have very good results at young age but generaly it's actualy quite easy to know the truth. I don't say this doesn't exist but about Tatiana rpecisely, it's is indeed HIGHLY unlikely.

goldenlox
Nov 17th, 2006, 06:01 PM
I heard the same rumors about Sveta.
What they didn't know is that Sveta's mom was a 6 time world champion cyclist who set 19 world records.
It was news when Sveta was born. They couldn't change the date by a year or two.

Mileen
Nov 18th, 2006, 03:59 PM
give me a break! why do u all think sharapova will dominate? shes so overrated! justine and serena would crush her @ their best


Agree!
And you (thread starter) forgot Kaia Kanepi!

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:03 PM
i guess people forget that karatancheva was younger and better than vaidisova & ivanovic before her "incident". imo she will come back strong and be better than all of them

You've said some pretty sad things, but this is by far your saddest. :o

Unlike Sesil, Nicole and Ana don't have to rely on their opponents to win points.

Sesil has no weapons and often moonballs.

Nicole and Ana have weapons that can/will take them to the top.

Sesil doesn't.

:shrug:

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Vaidisova is no cinch to be a solid top 10 player.
Jelena, Anna C, Dinara and Ana I are right behind her, and
any or all of them might have better careers than Nicole.

Yes, but when you get into the top you need weapons.

To me Nicole and Ana have those.

Jelena's backhand is good, but she won't hit you off the court with it.

Safina is streaky atm.

Anna's forehand is good, but she won't hit you off the court with it.

To get to the top you need shots that you can rely on to get you out of trouble.

Anna's not going to rip forehand winners on you and Jelena's not going to hit her down the line backahd every point.

But it is much more possible for Nicole and Ana to use their serve/forehand to get them out of trouble.

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:11 PM
Sesil has a weapon, her backhand is huge.
Nicole is still young, so she certainly has a chance.
But she implodes a lot.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:12 PM
Sesil has a weapon, her backhand is huge.
Nicole is still young, so she certainly has a chance.
But she implodes a lot.

Sesil's backhand is not huge.

It's good, like Jankovic, but neither will hit you off the court with it like Venus or Sharapova can do.

I don't think they can rely on their backhand, point after point to get them out of trouble.

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:18 PM
Sesil hits a huge backhand. I have it on tape.
Clean winners from the baseline against Sharapova.
IW 2004.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:20 PM
Sesil hits a huge backhand. I have it on tape.
Clean winners from the baseline against Sharapova.
IW 2004.

Look how it help up at Wimbledon last year.

She can do well on clay, because it's slower, but on fast courts she's not as good.

Look how many times how one-sided her losses were.

She can easily get overpowered.

She rose fast, but her game will only take her so far.

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:23 PM
Sesil should have a good career. Except she's crazy.
That's Nicole's problem too.

Mileen
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:26 PM
------------Born----15------16------17------18------19--------------------------------------------------------
Davenport---76-----339----159------20-------6------12
Mauresmo---79------na-----290-----159----109------29
VWilliams----80-----204-----204------22------5-------3
Hingis-------80------16-------4-------1-------2-------1
SWilliams----81------na------99------20------4-------6
HeninH------82------na------na------69-----45-------7
Clijsters-----83------na------47------18*------5-------4
Sharapova---87----186------32-------4-------4-------2
Vaidisova----89-----72------15------10

* after only FIRST full year on tour.

Currently- If you are a Vaidisova fan 2006 has to be pretty discouraging. Still no tier 2 victories. Also, she was better than Maria as a 16 year old, but by 17 Maria had such superior results that you cant even compare the two anymore. Maybe some current known player will exponentially improve, but right now there is nobody else. Unless they are younger than 15, you can be almost certain that there are no other Hingis or Sharapova level players ready to succeed by 17.

Yes, but remember, destiny (nurture, nature and destiny is the triad) is also a factor of importance. Maria was 17 and broke through, but that was made possible by Kim and Justine being injured, and if I remember correctly Serena and Venus not playing a lot and/or also being injured. Otherwise, NO WAY, would Sharapova have won Wimbledon. That's why the Russian girls won the slams in 2004, in the first place, because the top players were injured, hence the subtop ruled 2004.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:27 PM
Sesil should have a good career. Except she's crazy.
That's Nicole's problem too.

Nicole is not crazy.

She is not as bad as a year ago.

She was in the top 100 at 15.
She was in the top 20 at 16.
She is in the top 10 at 17.

That speaks volumes.

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:30 PM
If you knew what Nicole did after Nadia beat her in NYC, then you would agree that she's crazy.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:31 PM
If you knew what Nicole did after Nadia beat her in NYC, then you would agree that she's crazy.

I do know as I saw it live on TV.

That was more than a year ago.

But you obviously haven't seen her play since then.

Are Petrova and Myskina crazy too because they have tempers?

As far as I know, Nicole hasn't smashed a ball up into the crowd since that match. ;)

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:35 PM
I've never seen Nadia or Anastasia attack the crowd.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:36 PM
I've never seen Nadia or Anastasia attack the crowd.

Oh please, attacking the crowd?

She was 16.

She's matured so much since then.

She wouldn't be in the top 10 and a RG semifinalist if she was crazy.

She has been calm and mature for most of 2006.

Coffee&TV
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:41 PM
Nicole can be hot headed but I think she's awesome. ;)

Neptune
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Vaidisova is no cinch to be a solid top 10 player.
Jelena, Anna C, Dinara and Ana I are right behind her, and
any or all of them might have better careers than Nicole.

This is so hilarious :lol: :lol: You're soothsayer !:lol:

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:44 PM
That's just because I know Dinara, who was a YEC alternate, would be in the top 10 now if she didn't get ill in Stuttgart, and miss the indoor season.

Plus Nastya said all Nicole has is a serve.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:49 PM
That's just because I know Dinara, who was a YEC alternate, would be in the top 10 now if she didn't get ill in Stuttgart, and miss the indoor season.

Dinara was easily beaten by Hantuchova and Chakvetadze after becoming a top 10 player.

Dinara wouldn't have been close to getting the top 10 ranking had Nicole tried to defend her three title run from last fall. ;)

All those points came off which gave Safina the #10 ranking.

But Nicole got it back with a solid Linz. :)

Nicole is about 3 years younger than Safina and still is better.



Nastya said all Nicole has is a serve.

Nastya has been known to some mean words like saying Jankovic is more worried about her hair and how she looks than how she is on the court.


It's obvious you have something against Nicole like you do Sharapova. ;)

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:55 PM
People don't like objectivity. ;)
Nicole is from Bradenton, all those players mature early.
I can see Dinara and Anna C improving just as easily as Nicole can.

I think Dinara was as good on clay as Nicole this year

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 04:58 PM
People don't like objectivity. ;)
Nicole is from Bradenton, all those players mature early.
I can see Dinara and Anna C improving just as easily as Nicole can.

I think Dinara was as good on clay as Nicole this year

Dinara had a great clay season, but that was it.

She got lucky to make the QF as Sharapova slipped a bit.

Nicole came back from a set down twice to get to the SF's.

Dinara and Anna can be both great players.

But you saw how Mauresmo took Dinara apart at the US Open or how Ivanovic outplayed her in Montreal.

And what will Chakvetadze rely on to get her out of trouble on the big points?

Nicole is about 3 years younger than Safina and two years younger than Chakvetadze.

rrfnpump
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:00 PM
Yes, but when you get into the top you need weapons.

Karolina Sprem also has a lot of weapons. Its all about how to use them, how to play a smart game.


To me Nicole and Ana have those.

they certainly have, but especially Nicole doesnt use them too smart. She plays some braindead tennis when her groundstrokes or serve do not work. Instead of trying to get some consistancy into her game, she continues to play 100% and thats :o Examples are her loss against Mauresmo at the Australian Open and her loss to Golovin lately.


Jelena's backhand is good, but she won't hit you off the court with it.

yes, she will :)
there was hardly a player who could beat her lately[/QUOTE]

Derek, you say goldenlox is biased towards Nicole, but so are you. Reading through your post one could think Nicole is already No1 in the world with several grand slam titles...

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:01 PM
Dinara also beat Kim Lena and Sveta in Rome.
Made 2 slam QF's this year.
Nicole gets hype because she's tall and blonde

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/7210/vaidisova1showlf8.jpg

rrfnpump
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:04 PM
She got lucky to make the QF as Sharapova slipped a bit.

Nicole came back from a set down twice to get to the SF's.

Nicole beat Mauresmo which is nothing special in RG, have you seen how Mauresmo played in the last two sets :help:
and against venus.... Venus couldnt get a ball into the court, her returns landed ten meters out.

You cant say a player was lucky to go far and at the same time forget about Nicoles luck

Neptune
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:04 PM
Dinara can be on top 10 but that the least thing she can do great. She will never win Gc. Nicole has all the potential to win more than one Gc and be number one. In terms of objectivity,I'm speaking.
Nicole is far to be Mature in her tennis,she has a lot of things to improve in every area of the game. Dinara is already at 85% maybe more of her potential.
People often miss how young is Nicole.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Nicole beat Mauresmo which is nothing special in RG, have you seen how Mauresmo played in the last two sets :help:
and against venus.... Venus couldnt get a ball into the court, her returns landed ten meters out.

You cant say a player was lucky to go far and at the same time forget about Nicoles luck

Venus had about 70 errors, but Nicole had about 60 herself, so there wasn't much of a difference.

And maybe you should watch at 4*-3 Nicole in the second set and watch Nicole pull off those one-two punches.

Nicole also beat Mauresmo again in Moscow.

She's not top 10 because of luck.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:11 PM
Karolina Sprem also has a lot of weapons. Its all about how to use them, how to play a smart game.

Nicole obviously does use her serve and forehand smartly as she is #10 in the world.

Sure I'm biased as she is my 3rd favorite player, but I'm not up her butt to where I can't see what she needs to work on and how good she can be.

And you said I act like she is #1 in the world. Please go look in her forum in the "Improvements for 2007" thread and you will see what I really think. ;)

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:12 PM
Dinara also beat Kim Lena and Sveta in Rome.
Made 2 slam QF's this year.
Nicole gets hype because she's tall and blonde

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/7210/vaidisova1showlf8.jpg

Nicole also gets hyped because she was top 100 at 15, top 20 at 16, and now top 10 at 17. ;)

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:14 PM
yes, she will :)
there was hardly a player who could beat her lately

No, she won't.

She isn't winning because of her backhand, she's winning because she's playing smart tennis.

She will hit a good amount of backhand winners, but will she hit you off the court like Venus can with her backhand? Or like Nicole and Ana can do with their serve/forehand combo? No.

That's my point.

Jankovic is a great player and very solid.

She will be a top 10 player soon enough.

But I don't see top 5 potential in her because she lacks that one thing that will get her free points or get her out of trouble.

Neptune
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:15 PM
Nicole gets hype because she's tall and blonde




This sort of argument has no sense.She's more than a pretty face and a decent body. I'm often suprising by the quality of your argumentation which is very poor.But that's the part of your charm,I suppose.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:16 PM
This sort of argument has no sense.She's more than a pretty face and a decent body. I'm often suprising by the quality of your argumentation which is very poor.

GL knows Nicole is a great player.

But he does not like the media attention she gets because his Kournikova is the media queen. ;)

Notice how Kournikova is still in his signature despite not playing for several years, but Sharapova isn't?

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:17 PM
Sesil beat Venus in Paris also.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:20 PM
Sesil beat Venus in Paris also.

Sesil was on steroids. :tape:

Sesil moonballed her way to beating Venus.

At least Nicole went for her shots.

Neptune
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:20 PM
GL knows Nicole is a great player.

But he does not like the media attention she gets because his Kournikova is the media queen. ;)

Notice how Kournikova is still in his signature despite not playing for several years, but Sharapova isn't?

Thanks for the explanation :lol: :yeah:

blumaroo
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:23 PM
No, she won't.



Jankovic is a great player and very solid.

She will be a top 10 player soon enough.

But I don't see top 5 potential in her because she lacks that one thing that will get her free points or get her out of trouble.


But an improved Jankovic could be like a Kim Clijsters part 2 (not as good as Kim ofcourse). Kim doesn't have one huge distinctive weapon either yet she made the top quite easily. If Jankovic game clicks (because she can serve pretty well, is pretty fast and has a very consistent backhand) then I don't see why she can't reach the top 5 with an allround game.

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Thanks for the explanation :lol: :yeah:That's not a good explanantion, but it is funny :lol:

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:43 PM
That's not a good explanantion, but it is funny :lol:

Whatever the reason for your "dislikement" (haha I made that word up) of Nicole, I hope it's not hindering you from seeing that Nicole can/will be a top player for a very long time. ;)

goldenlox
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:52 PM
I think Nicole is a good young player.
We will all see how her career plays out.

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:53 PM
I think Nicole is a good young player.
We will all see how her career plays out.

:cool:

Craigy
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:59 PM
It would be crazy to say Nicole won't be a star of the future, she already is one :lol:

Natalicious
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:29 PM
i hope tamira paszek will be a future star :yeah:

iarescientists
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:34 PM
you missed out jade curtis :eek:

DutchieGirl
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:56 PM
you missed out jade curtis :eek:

:haha:

Derek.
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:58 PM
Jade. :hearts:

She makes so many errors it's amazing! :worship:

iarescientists
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:59 PM
:haha:

eh, she will rule the world. :cool:

Gooner
Nov 18th, 2006, 08:03 PM
I think the future of womens tennis is gonna be very strong. With the explosion of Chinese players on the scene and players like Anastasia Pavlyuchenova, Carolina Wozniacki, Agnieszka Radwanska and emerging Americans Julia Cohen, Chelsey Gullickson, and Ariel Ellis.

DutchieGirl
Nov 18th, 2006, 08:12 PM
I think the future of womens tennis is gonna be very strong. With the explosion of Chinese players on the scene and players like Anastasia Pavlyuchenova, Carolina Wozniacki, Agnieszka Radwanska and emerging Americans Julia Cohen, Chelsey Gullickson, and Ariel Ellis.

Julia Cohen - doubt it. ;) The first 3 you mentioned should come along nicely though. :D

DutchieGirl
Nov 18th, 2006, 08:13 PM
eh, she will rule the world. :cool:

yeah, and i'm the queen of England! :p

iarescientists
Nov 18th, 2006, 08:15 PM
yeah, and i'm the queen of England! :p

hi queen elizabeth II :cool: