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View Full Version : Oprah Not Invited to TomKat's Wedding


Denise4925
Nov 14th, 2006, 09:55 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/bug/denisetx/tomoprah.jpg

Tom Cruise may have famously jumped on Oprah Winfrey's couch to declare his love for Katie Holmes, but Winfrey won't be at his wedding in Italy Saturday.

"It's not that I'm not going," Winfrey tells Extra's AJ Calloway in a segment to air on Tuesday. "It's that they had a limited number of people that they could invite. I was not one of the invitees. That's fine. I don't get invited to everyone's wedding. I don't invite them to everything I do. But I wish them the best."

She continues, "I have a great deal of regard for their relationship and so I'm trying to think of what to get them."

Asked what she'll get the couple, she says, "I don't know! I was thinking … I'm easier (to shop for) – you can get me a bubble bath I'm okay – but I don't know what to give them."

Wigglytuff
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:02 PM
i dont understand why they would not invite oprah. anyway can make room for her if they want to. its really nice of her to still get them a gift though.

Sally Struthers
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:08 PM
She's on the blacklist for the wedding because she wouldn't convert to scientology :o

timafi
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:14 PM
big deal:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:20 PM
:bounce: :bounce: :dance: :dance:
This is the first time I've actually liked something that Tomkat has done.
Honestly if you look at Oprah's record, celebrities rarely if ever come off looking as good as Oprah after the show and Tom Cruise came off that show with his career in jeopardy.

She could have done an episode on Scientology.
She's friends with John Travolta and I don't think many people are interested as to joining but they are interested into exactly what the hell it is.

Perhaps to Tom, maybe she's coming off a bit shady.

volta
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:26 PM
:bounce: :bounce: :dance: :dance:
This is the first time I've actually liked something that Tomkat has done.
Honestly if you look at Oprah's record, celebrities rarely if ever come off looking as good as Oprah after the show and Tom Cruise came off that show with his career in jeopardy.

She could have done an episode on Scientology.
She's friends with John Travolta and I don't think many people are interested as to joining but they are interested into exactly what the hell it is.

Perhaps to Tom, maybe she's coming off a bit shady.

his fault for acting like a damn fool not hers though

CrossCourt~Rally
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:26 PM
She's on the blacklist for the wedding because she wouldn't convert to scientology :o

:eek:

Wigglytuff
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:30 PM
his fault for acting like a damn fool not hers though

basically.

Sally Struthers
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:36 PM
:eek:

oh hush :rolleyes:

CooCooCachoo
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:50 PM
:shrug:

She continues, "I have a great deal of regard for their relationship and so I'm trying to think of what to get them."

Asked what she'll get the couple, she says, "I don't know! I was thinking … I'm easier (to shop for) – you can get me a bubble bath I'm okay – but I don't know what to give them."

Such great structure in the article.

And how are you easier to shop for? A bubble bath isn't exactly very easy to buy nor to install nor to get :lol:

Rocketta
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:18 PM
:shrug:

I'm usually happy when I'm not invited to weddings. However if I'm not invited you certainly aren't going to get a gift. :angel:

Do we know how big the wedding is suppose to be? For all we know they are just having family and church members?


All I know is when I get married there are going to be alot of people saying, " I didn't get invited! " :devil:

Boss monkey
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:20 PM
They must be duming a lot of money in to this wedding not not invite oprah and most likey some other people that would like to go considering that they are freaking loaded:p

Kart
Nov 15th, 2006, 01:56 AM
Asked what she'll get the couple, she says, "I don't know! I was thinking … I'm easier (to shop for) – you can get me a bubble bath I'm okay – but I don't know what to give them."

Placenta would be a safe bet, Oprah.

Pheobo
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:13 AM
That's going to be one strange wedding.

Ferosh
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:14 AM
That's because there is no wedding. Oprah is not going to fall for this Scientology bullshit and Tom knows this.

He seriously needs to just come out of the closet, because we all know his a fag.

mykarma
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:18 AM
:bounce: :bounce: :dance: :dance:
This is the first time I've actually liked something that Tomkat has done.
Honestly if you look at Oprah's record, celebrities rarely if ever come off looking as good as Oprah after the show and Tom Cruise came off that show with his career in jeopardy.

She could have done an episode on Scientology.
She's friends with John Travolta and I don't think many people are interested as to joining but they are interested into exactly what the hell it is.

Perhaps to Tom, maybe she's coming off a bit shady.
I'm sure Oprah could care less.

brayster87
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:18 AM
that's a real shame

mykarma
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:20 AM
That's because there is no wedding. Oprah is not going to fall for this Scientology bullshit and Tom knows this.

He seriously needs to just come out of the closet, because we all know his a fag.
I think it's very disrespectful to call someone's religion "bullshit". If that's what makes them happy, then so be it.

hdfb
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:33 AM
It's not Oprah's loss at all.... the whole wedding is probably a brainwashing session to convert people to Scientology.

Kunal
Nov 15th, 2006, 07:55 AM
:shrug:



Such great structure in the article.

And how are you easier to shop for? A bubble bath isn't exactly very easy to buy nor to install nor to get :lol:


lol

Kunal
Nov 15th, 2006, 07:56 AM
It's not Oprah's loss at all.... the whole wedding is probably a brainwashing session to convert people to Scientology.

amen

gentenaire
Nov 15th, 2006, 08:04 AM
I think it's very disrespectful to call someone's religion "bullshit". If that's what makes them happy, then so be it.

Why is it disrespectful? Scientology is a sect.

Erika_Angel
Nov 15th, 2006, 08:12 AM
And how are you easier to shop for? A bubble bath isn't exactly very easy to buy nor to install nor to get :lol:

I actually thought she meant the stuff you put in your bath to make bubbles.

I'm sure Oprah could care less.

You mean she 'couldn't care less' :)

Kunal
Nov 15th, 2006, 09:00 AM
ppl have to think twice before not inviting oprah...i think its a big call

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2006, 04:07 PM
It's not Oprah's loss at all.... the whole wedding is probably a brainwashing session to convert people to Scientology.

:lol: I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Oprah ought to thank her lucky stars.

Slumpsova
Nov 15th, 2006, 05:40 PM
such a classless couple :(

Rocketta
Nov 15th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Why is it disrespectful? Scientology is a sect.


To call something bullshit just because you don't believe in it is disrespectful to the people who believe. Just like if someone said Christianity is :bs: because they are an atheist. It would be disrespectful to Christians. Just as if I said Atheism is :bs: people only chose that because they lack the moral fiber to have faith in anything....would be disrespectful to atheist.

Just because you don't believe, or want to follow a religion, sect, or group isn't reason enough to be disrespectful.

Tom follows it, he likes it and it makes him feel happy. That's every US citizens right as long as it's not hurting others.

Also, we have this little thing called freedom of religion and I think some of us need to remember that a little more when we are discussing fringe religions, sects, groups, etc.

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2006, 08:09 PM
To call something bullshit just because you don't believe in it is disrespectful to the people who believe. Just like if someone said Christianity is :bs: because they are an atheist. It would be disrespectful to Christians. Just as if I said Atheism is :bs: people only chose that because they lack the moral fiber to have faith in anything....would be disrespectful to atheist.

Just because you don't believe, or want to follow a religion, sect, or group isn't reason enough to be disrespectful.

Tom follows it, he likes it and it makes him feel happy. That's every US citizens right as long as it's not hurting others.

Also, we have this little thing called freedom of religion and I think some of us need to remember that a little more when we are discussing fringe religions, sects, groups, etc.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

gentenaire
Nov 15th, 2006, 09:55 PM
To call something bullshit just because you don't believe in it is disrespectful to the people who believe. Just like if someone said Christianity is :bs: because they are an atheist. It would be disrespectful to Christians. Just as if I said Atheism is :bs: people only chose that because they lack the moral fiber to have faith in anything....would be disrespectful to atheist.

Just because you don't believe, or want to follow a religion, sect, or group isn't reason enough to be disrespectful.

Tom follows it, he likes it and it makes him feel happy. That's every US citizens right as long as it's not hurting others.

Also, we have this little thing called freedom of religion and I think some of us need to remember that a little more when we are discussing fringe religions, sects, groups, etc.

What are the odds of Tom ever reading this anyway?

and if anyone is offended at a remark like that, he really needs to grow a thicker skin.

Why should I have respect for brainwashing? L Ron Hubbard himself has said the perfect way to make money is to start a religion.

And hey, you never know, maybe by making fun of scientology, we may have prevented a few people from beging cought up in their web, from losing all their money. We may have saved a few personal dramas by criticising it. If we respect everything, even scientology, people might start to think scientology is something normal, something that actually deserves respect, when it doesn't. It's a cult, for goodness sake! Should I respect heroine users for using heroine? After all, the heroine might make him happy? Should I have respect for that?
Isn't it better to make it clear that heroine can be dangerous instead of respecting it?

Yes, there's freedom of religion. But scientology is not a religion. We also have freedom of speech. As a society, we must also strive to protect the weak. We must protect people from fraud. Scientology is one big fraud, with the sole aim to get as much money out of its members as possible.

Rocketta
Nov 15th, 2006, 10:09 PM
The problem with that Tine is that when did you get to decide that is what Scientology is all about? You want to talk about Religion and money no need to look any further than the Catholic church. Is the fact that the church has done many things in the name of money mean it is then ok to be disrespectful to practicing catholics?

and please with the Heorin example as that is illegal and hurts a lot of other people besides the Heroin user.

and I don't think it's Tom that was disrespected. He's just the gateway used to hate on Scientology. How do you know there are no practicing Scientologist on this board?

All that is said against Scientology can be said against all religions that's the point. If somebody wants to give away all their money that's their business....I doubt you would call priests and nuns brainwashed and they pretty much give up their worldly possessions to the church (well until recently)....it's called a vow of poverty...so once again...how is that different than with any religion?

Religion is what it is. People chose to believe and have faith because they want to. We are not talking about a group who take their people out of society where they have no contact with any other view or position.

gentenaire
Nov 15th, 2006, 10:26 PM
I think I'm free to decide what deserves my respect and what doesn't. Respect shouldn't be a compulsory thing.
And if it offends scientologists on this board, so be it. That's life.

Rocketta
Nov 15th, 2006, 11:16 PM
I think I'm free to decide what deserves my respect and what doesn't. Respect shouldn't be a compulsory thing.
And if it offends scientologists on this board, so be it. That's life.

nobody is saying you should respect Scientology. Telling someone to stop being disrespectful isn't the same as saying respect Scientology. It's just common courtesy.

DemWilliamsGulls
Nov 16th, 2006, 03:19 AM
I know what Oprah needs to get Tom gay ass..a damn gift card to the nearest mental institution the way that twisted crackhead MF was jumping on her couch and pushing on her...something wrong with Tom Cruise..I dont care how cute some of yall think he is....he fucked up in the head..if im being honest

mykarma
Nov 16th, 2006, 04:03 AM
Why is it disrespectful? Scientology is a sect.
All religions are sects. Because someone doesn't believe as you do doesn't mean that it's ok for anyone to dog them. Especially as long as they're not doing anything against the law or humanity.

mykarma
Nov 16th, 2006, 04:05 AM
To call something bullshit just because you don't believe in it is disrespectful to the people who believe. Just like if someone said Christianity is :bs: because they are an atheist. It would be disrespectful to Christians. Just as if I said Atheism is :bs: people only chose that because they lack the moral fiber to have faith in anything....would be disrespectful to atheist.

Just because you don't believe, or want to follow a religion, sect, or group isn't reason enough to be disrespectful.

Tom follows it, he likes it and it makes him feel happy. That's every US citizens right as long as it's not hurting others.

Also, we have this little thing called freedom of religion and I think some of us need to remember that a little more when we are discussing fringe religions, sects, groups, etc.
:worship::worship::worship:

LoveFifteen
Nov 16th, 2006, 05:49 AM
Scientology doesn't deserve respect. It's a steaming pile of crap. It was invented by a science-fiction writing charlatan who wanted to get rich.

I started a new religion when I wrote a book about a giant purple carrot in the sky that needed to be worshipped. You get into heaven by following the giant purple carrot's cardinal rule -- always wipe your ass back to front, NEVER front to back. Following Carrotism makes people happy and they don't harm anyone! If you think this religion is bullshit, you are totally disrespectful. :angel:

If you want to see a quick presentation of what Scientologists believe, watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68WBSM0-_HE&mode=related&search=

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 16th, 2006, 05:55 AM
I'm sure Oprah could care less.

If Oprah didn't care she wouldn't have commented.
Oprah is very picky with who she talks to and what she talks about in the media outside of her talk and radio show.

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:07 AM
Scientology doesn't deserve respect. It's a steaming pile of crap. It was invented by a science-fiction writing charlatan who wanted to get rich.

I started a new religion when I wrote a book about a giant purple carrot in the sky that needed to be worshipped. You get into heaven by following the giant purple carrot's cardinal rule -- always wipe your ass back to front, NEVER front to back. Following Carrotism makes people happy and they don't harm anyone! If you think this religion is bullshit, you are totally disrespectful. :angel:

If you want to see a quick presentation of what Scientologists believe, watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68WBSM0-_HE&mode=related&search=

Well you forgot the part about these "souls" of these galactic beings being put into humans.
The only way these things can be taken out of the body is through sweating, pissing, screaming, crying, vomiting, and other bodily actions.
Basically every day I wake up and take my morning piss I'm closer to enlightment according to Scientology.

Also they believe that man directly evolved from clams.

Oh I forgot to mention that once a scientologist gets enlightened after all the pissing, screaming and other stuff that takes away the galactic things out of their bodies and they happen to make it to the highest level of scientology, they are said to move objects, talk to animals, and use astroprojection.

They tell you when you get to that highest level through a electronic device.
This is usually after taking many courses in Scientology which cost a pretty penny.

Also they believe that Ron Hubbard will come back.

So let's just look at Scientology one last time:
1) 75 million years ago Xenu kills galatic beings by putting an atomic bomb in the volcanoes of the Earth.
2) The residue of these galatic beings enter humans making them susceptible to belief in things such as Jesus and other dieties. Also this residue makes humans susceptible to belief in psychiatry.
The reason psychiatry is bad is because it stops people from being themselves, they supposedly are not able to scream and have emotions which help to get the residue of the galactic beings out of themselves.
3) The residue of the beings is forced out of the body by pissing, sweating, vomting, burping, screaming, crying, and other bodily actions.
4) After taking enough course in scientology and if enough of the galatic residue is noticed to be out of the body by an electronic device, a person makes the finals level in Scientology and is said to talk to animals, move objects, and use astroprojection.
5) Ron Hubbard is suppose to come back in some form which is not quite explained.
Humans are directly evolved from clams.

Now for those who didn't know, scientologist can be VERY VERY aggressive.
So I would warn some of yall waving the constitution in people's faces, you might regret doing that if you ever meet a scientologist.

Rocketta
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:42 AM
and? Christians believed men lived hundreds of years. God parted a sea so people could get across. Jeasus died and then rose from the dead several days later. That he healed people by touch. That he could multiply food to feed thousands. That a omniverous being turned the Nile into blood. God sent a spirit to kill the eldest born unless people put a swipe of blood on their doorway.

The only reason the people who believe all that happened aren't looked at as crazies is because Christianity is the norm and the predominately religious following in the US.

It's not for us to agree with what they believe and God help us if it ever is. :rolleyes:

LoveFifteen
Nov 16th, 2006, 06:47 AM
I think that Scientology is total bullshit not true. If I met a Scientologist, I certainly wouldn't say that to his face. I would show common courtesy and simply refrain from making any comments about his stupid delusions religion. As for respect, I seriously can't respect someone foolish enough to believe in such nonsense.

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:04 AM
and? Christians believed men lived hundreds of years. God parted a sea so people could get across. Jeasus died and then rose from the dead several days later. That he healed people by touch. That he could multiply food to feed thousands. That a omniverous being turned the Nile into blood. God sent a spirit to kill the eldest born unless people put a swipe of blood on their doorway.

The only reason the people who believe all that happened aren't looked at as crazies is because Christianity is the norm and the predominately religious following in the US.

It's not for us to agree with what they believe and God help us if it ever is. :rolleyes:

Ah. Yea.
I honestly don't believe everything that Christianity has to offer.

At the same time if I had a choice I would rather go with thinking that obeying God's commandments could get me into heaven rather than with the Scientologist who believe taking a shit will bring me closer to enlightment.

On the other hand since Darwin's theory of evolution is considered witchcraft by some areas of Christianity, I would rather believe in evolving from a clam than no evolution at all.

gentenaire
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:14 AM
I think that Scientology is total bullshit not true. If I met a Scientologist, I certainly wouldn't say that to his face. I would show common courtesy and simply refrain from making any comments about his stupid delusions religion. As for respect, I seriously can't respect someone foolish enough to believe in such nonsense.

exactly

Rocketta
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:19 AM
I don't get why any of y'all think anyone gives a rat's ass if you respect Scientology? What does that have to do with being disrespectful? You can say you don't believe in it without putting down the people who do. However, carry on because clearly for some reason there's a need by some to be 'above' those who believe in Scientology. Whateva. :rolleyes:

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:27 AM
I don't get why any of y'all think anyone gives a rat's ass if you respect Scientology? What does that have to do with being disrespectful? You can say you don't believe in it without putting down the people who do. However, carry on because clearly for some reason there's a need by some to be 'above' those who believe in Scientology. Whateva. :rolleyes:

I don't have to be above those who believe in Scientology.

At the same time Scientologist believe the only reason people believe in Christianity is because something out of this world is possessed in Christians telling them to believe in Jesus who seems to be a false prophet according to Scientology.

Could we call that an above ideology of Scientology when dealing with Christianity?

Denise4925
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Good lord :rolleyes: If that's the case, the Jews would constantly disrespect the Christians, the Christians would disrespect the Muslims, the Muslims the Jews, the Jews the Muslims, the Hindus the Budhist, etc.

It's common courtesy. It's mutual respect. It has nothing to do with your opinion of the religion.

ampers&
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:18 PM
I'm sure Oprah will be fine.
If she gets too sad about it, she can make a blanket out of one-hundred dollar bills and cuddle under it with a teddy-bear stuffed with one-hundred dollar bills or something. I know that would make me happier. :drool:

Aaron.
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:20 PM
I'm sure Oprah will be fine.
If she gets too sad about it, she can make a blanket out of one-hundred dollar bills and cuddle under it with a teddy-bear stuffed with one-hundred dollar bills or something. I know that would make me happier. :drool: :haha: :yawn: at Oprah :( :rolleyes:

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 16th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Good lord :rolleyes: If that's the case, the Jews would constantly disrespect the Christians, the Christians would disrespect the Muslims, the Muslims the Jews, the Jews the Muslims, the Hindus the Budhist, etc.



Have you taken a look at this world lately?
Those things are happening.

Denise4925
Nov 16th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Have you taken a look at this world lately?
Those things are happening.

Well, there have also been wars because of religion. But, my point is common courtesy and decency. I may not believe in your religion or even respect it, but I believe in your right as a human being to believe in what you want, and I'm not going to disrespect you about it. I can state my beliefs or disbeliefs without disrespecting the believer.

gentenaire
Nov 16th, 2006, 10:12 PM
Well, there have also been wars because of religion. But, my point is common courtesy and decency. I may not believe in your religion or even respect it, but I believe in your right as a human being to believe in what you want, and I'm not going to disrespect you about it. I can state my beliefs or disbeliefs without disrespecting the believer.

Do you also have respect for people who believe blacks are inferior? Do your respect Ku Klux clan members? You claim you're not going to disrespect people about their beliefs.

mykarma
Nov 16th, 2006, 10:15 PM
If Oprah didn't care she wouldn't have commented.
Oprah is very picky with who she talks to and what she talks about in the media outside of her talk and radio show.
If you say so.

Rocketta
Nov 16th, 2006, 10:15 PM
Do you also have respect for people who believe blacks are inferior? Do your respect Ku Klux clan members? You claim you're not going to disrespect people about their beliefs.

ah, maybe you missed the part about hurting others? :scratch:

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:20 PM
ah, maybe you missed the part about hurting others? :scratch:

Genitaire does have a point.
I don't agree with Scientologist but I will never go out of my way to disrespect them.
They do have a theory of why the dinosaurs went extinct even if it's 10 million years earlier than it should be and deals with an atomic bomb. Maybe that counts for something. :tape:

At the same time that constitution some of yall are waving in front of others gives the right for the KKK to demonstrate.
Although I don't agree with them I won't go out my way to disrespect them.

There are some people in this thread right now that have commented that they would.

You can't have it both ways.
Stand behind the constitution all the way or don't stand behnd it at all.

IMO, I think both factions have overstepped their first amendment rights.

There should not be dianetics areas right outside of Wal-Marts.
They can do that outside of their Scientology areas though.

The KKK should be able to have meetings but demonstrations on public grounds should not happen.
They lost that privilege and should never get it back.

Apoleb
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:25 PM
I'm not sure why I have to respect anyone's beliefs. Please. There's a big difference between attacking someone personally and attacking an idea. If someone takes an attack on a certain religion as a personal attack, then it's his/her problem. I find it funny how religious people keep mocking atheim/agnosticism, yet when one brings Jesus (usually in any barely sarcastic way), they go nuts. Criticism is always healthy, and people need to accept that no system of beliefs is out of bounds of critcism, sarcasm, satire, or whatever.

Rocketta
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:29 PM
I'm not sure why I have to respect anyone's beliefs. Please. There's a big difference between attacking someone personally and attacking an idea. If someone takes an attack on a certain religion as a personal attack, then it's his/her problem. I find it funny how religious people keep mocking atheim/agnosticism, yet when one brings Jesus (usually in any barely sarcastic way), they go nuts. Criticism is always healthy, and people need to accept that no system of beliefs is out of bounds of critcism, sarcasm, satire, or whatever.

Have you read this thread? The attacks about Scientology have been personal. Also who in here has mocked Atheism/Agnosticism? :confused:

and for the LAST TIME.....No one is saying people should respect Scientology. :help:

Apoleb
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:32 PM
Have you read this thread? The attacks about Scientology have been personal. Also who in here has mocked Atheism/Agnosticism? :confused:

and for the LAST TIME.....No one is saying people should respect Scientology. :help:

you mean saying scientology is bs, is a personal attack? If that's what you take as a personal attack, I don't. I find a lot of ideologies to be bs, and I'm not sure what's so wrong about saying that. And I wasn't refering to people here about mocking atheism/agnoticism. Clearly, religious people are always too uptight. They can't take any slight criticism of the holy x, and call it "blasphemy", because they still would like to cling to the old times when religious institutions used to dominate and oppress everyone. Times changed but the mentality is still there. Yet, it's easy for them to mock agnoticism and atheism, and I never saw people from those two groups making a riot about that.

Rocketta
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:38 PM
you mean saying scientology is bs, is a personal attack? If that's what you take as a personal attack, I don't. I find a lot of ideologies to be bs, and I'm not sure what's so wrong about saying that. And I wasn't refering to people here about mocking atheism/agnoticism. Clearly, religious people are always too uptight. They can't take any slight criticism of the holy x, and call it "blasphemy", because they still would like to cling to the old times when religious institutions used to dominate and oppress everyone. Times changed but the mentality is still there. Yet, it's easy for them to mock agnoticism and atheism, and I never saw people from those two groups making a riot about that.

You need to learn to use some modifyers...as in some religious people or religious people I've encountered. Because you surely haven't encountered all religious people. I know plenty of religious people who are not uptight, who do not judge people of other faiths and make them feel lesser.

and was bs the only thing said about Scientology or the person who's getting married in this thread? This thread is not about Scientology but about a wedding. People should feel free to discuss whatever they want as are the people who have a problem with how something is being discussed. :shrug:

Kart
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:44 PM
I find it funny how religious people keep mocking atheim/agnosticism, yet when one brings Jesus (usually in any barely sarcastic way), they go nuts.

It's no funnier than having some agnostics and atheists trying to ram their 'religion is the route of all evil' opinions down the throats of people of faith.

There is a way of addressing people with dignity and without being rude which I think is all that some posters in this thread are trying to point out.

Whether or not you agree with their beliefs is irrelevant - it's their rights to hold those beliefs that matters.

Apoleb
Nov 16th, 2006, 11:45 PM
You need to learn to use some modifyers...as in some religious people or religious people I've encountered. Because you surely haven't encountered all religious people. I know plenty of religious people who are not uptight, who do not judge people of other faiths and make them feel lesser.


Ofcourse I wasn't talking about ALL religious people, but it's obvious that there's a general mentality within religious institutions that hates any sort of criticism or mockery of the sacred one. Be it in Islam, Christianity, Judaism or whatever. Madonna gets on the cross, and they all go wild. Please, even if she wanted to mock what Jesus taught (which probably wasn't what she wanted to do anway), she has a right to do that. Like I said, these are just remnants of an old mentality of oppression, where discussing anything regarding religion with a little bit of negativity is met with extreme hostility.

People should feel free to discuss whatever they want as are the people who have a problem with how something is being discussed.

I'm not sure where did I say that you or anyone doesn't have a right to voice an opinion concerning how religions/systems of beliefs in general should be discussed. It's just that I don't agree with you.

Rocketta
Nov 17th, 2006, 12:10 AM
It's no funnier than having some agnostics and atheists trying to ram their 'religion is the route of all evil' opinions down the throats of people of faith.

There is a way of addressing people with dignity and without being rude which I think is all that some posters in this thread are trying to point out.

Whether or not you agree with their beliefs is irrelevant - it's their rights to hold those beliefs that matters.

Hello! Somebody gets it! :woohoo:

and I didn't have to tell you to post that or anything! :D :hug: :wavey:

Apoleb
Nov 17th, 2006, 12:20 AM
There is a way of addressing people with dignity and without being rude which I think is all that some posters in this thread are trying to point out.


That is if I'm actually interested in discussing with them.

Whether or not you agree with their beliefs is irrelevant - it's their rights to hold those beliefs that matters.

Absolutely. It's also the right for anyone to mock any belief. It's funny, cause that happens all the time, yet you only get the brouhahaha when you go close to religion.

Kart
Nov 17th, 2006, 12:48 AM
That is if I'm actually interested in discussing with them.

Well if you're not interested in discussing with them, why talk to them at all ?

Absolutely. It's also the right for anyone to mock any belief. It's funny, cause that happens all the time, yet you only get the brouhahaha when you go close to religion.

If you mock any subject that someone feels strongly about to their face you'll get the same reaction.

There's nothing special about religion in that regard.

Apoleb
Nov 17th, 2006, 12:55 AM
Well if you're not interested in discussing with them, why talk to them at all ?


Who said I'm talking to them? Someone said scientology is bs and you had a couple of posters up on his/her ass. I'm sorry I do think it's a pile of shit and I'm not going to restrict my speech just because some scientologists might get offended. :rolleyes:

If you mock any subject that someone feels strongly about to their face you'll get the same reaction.

There's nothing special about religion in that regard.

That's not true. I do feel very strongly about a lot of subjects like evolution or the existence of god but I'm not going to call "blasphemy" those who mock those beliefs and throw in a riot. It's clear that religion does have a special status. I mean seriously, you had someone getting on a cross, and just see the reaction. It wasn't even mockery or satire.

Kart
Nov 17th, 2006, 01:31 AM
Someone said scientology is bs and you had a couple of posters up on his/her ass. I'm sorry I do think it's a pile of shit and I'm not going to restrict my speech just because some scientologists might get offended. :rolleyes:


No one's asking you to retrict your speech but if you're going to tell someone you think their beliefs are rubbish you've hardly got anyone but yourself to blame if you encounter hostility :lol:.


That's not true. I do feel very strongly about a lot of subjects like evolution or the existence of god but I'm not going to call "blasphemy" those who mock those beliefs and throw in a riot. It's clear that religion does have a special status. I mean seriously, you had someone getting on a cross, and just see the reaction. It wasn't even mockery or satire.

What you've written above doesn't make what I said any less true.

Religion is the most important part of a lot of people's lives but to others so is family, sexuality, race, superstition etc. Just because you'd react in one way doesn't mean others have to.

I don't disagree that people can misinterpret and overreact but then you can't restrict their speech either.

Rocketta
Nov 17th, 2006, 02:04 AM
That is if I'm actually interested in discussing with them.



Absolutely. It's also the right for anyone to mock any belief. It's funny, cause that happens all the time, yet you only get the brouhahaha when you go close to religion.

Since when did mockery become a right? :confused:

The discussion is not about the objection to Scientology but how that objection is voiced. No one told anybody they couldn't say Scientology is :bs: just that by voicing your displeasure that way is very disrespectful. You using the term mockery only shows that the intent was to be disrespectful.

If you're going to be disrespectful at least own up to it instead saying 'free speech' because no one questioned anybody's right to free speech it's the civilness (is that a word? :unsure: ) of such speech that is under discussion.

So it really doesn't matter how many tangents people go off on that is the issue and I've yet seen anyone give a good reason why it's ok to do that. Bringing up the KKK and other nonsense doesn't cut it because we are not talking about a group thats goal are to harm people. We are talking about people exercising their right to follow their religion without people 'mocking' it.

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 17th, 2006, 02:20 AM
So it really doesn't matter how many tangents people go off on that is the issue and I've yet seen anyone give a good reason why it's ok to do that. Bringing up the KKK and other nonsense doesn't cut it because we are not talking about a group thats goal are to harm people. We are talking about people exercising their right to follow their religion without people 'mocking' it.

It's not nonsense.
Once you wrote it's every US citizen's right as long as it isn't hurting anyone then groups like the KKK apply.
There are anarchy groups in the US and they aren't hurting anyone as long as they don't act upon what they believe.
The same with the KKK, they aren't hurting anyone as long as they don't act upon what they believe.

The same with the Scientologist.
As long as they don't come to people's house, trying to force this galactic possession that is supposedly in people out of them then they're not hurting anyone.

These factions are all protected for US citizens by the constitution.

mykarma
Nov 17th, 2006, 02:24 AM
Since when did mockery become a right? :confused:

The discussion is not about the objection to Scientology but how that objection is voiced. No one told anybody they couldn't say Scientology is :bs: just that by voicing your displeasure that way is very disrespectful. You using the term mockery only shows that the intent was to be disrespectful.

If you're going to be disrespectful at least own up to it instead saying 'free speech' because no one questioned anybody's right to free speech it's the civilness (is that a word? :unsure: ) of such speech that is under discussion.

So it really doesn't matter how many tangents people go off on that is the issue and I've yet seen anyone give a good reason why it's ok to do that. Bringing up the KKK and other nonsense doesn't cut it because we are not talking about a group thats goal are to harm people. We are talking about people exercising their right to follow their religion without people 'mocking' it.
I tried to give you another rep but, you know the routine. Rocketta, you just as well give up. As you can see, some people think it's ok to be rude and disrespectful for no apparent reason. As you previously mentioned, the discussion was not about Scientology, but about Oprah not getting invited to a wedding.

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 17th, 2006, 02:47 AM
As you can see, some people think it's ok to be rude and disrespectful for no apparent reason. As you previously mentioned, the discussion was not about Scientology, but about Oprah not getting invited to a wedding.

Oprah not getting invited to the wedding likely has a correlation to Scientology which is why it was brought up in the first place.

I wrote the gist of what Scientology entails and that would be considered disrespectful for some in the scientologist community.
So really disrespect when it comes to Scientology is relative.

At the same time, I would really be concerned for my own self if I didn't even consider the things that I mentioned to be odd and they are, let's not beat around the bush here.

There are some good people in Scientology who contribute to society.
There are others who come off brain dead and creepy.
In my dealing with Scientologist I seem to hear more stories of the latter compared to other faiths.
They also seem for some reason to go after Catholics.

If you don't believe the last statement just look at the people Tom Cruise has tried to convert, Nicole Kidman, Penelope Cruz, and Katie Holmes.

It is not a concidence.

Beat
Nov 17th, 2006, 10:13 AM
TTom follows it, he likes it and it makes him feel happy. That's every US citizens right as long as it's not hurting others.
oh, but the question is: does it not?

gentenaire
Nov 17th, 2006, 12:36 PM
No one's asking you to retrict your speech but if you're going to tell someone you think their beliefs are rubbish you've hardly got anyone but yourself to blame if you encounter hostility :lol:..

I'd expect that kind of reaction from people who actually believe in it, not from people who feel you should respect it just because.

gentenaire
Nov 17th, 2006, 12:39 PM
So it really doesn't matter how many tangents people go off on that is the issue and I've yet seen anyone give a good reason why it's ok to do that. Bringing up the KKK and other nonsense doesn't cut it because we are not talking about a group thats goal are to harm people. We are talking about people exercising their right to follow their religion without people 'mocking' it.

Forget about KKK, let's just talk about people who feel blacks are inferior but don't act, don't do anything. If they would call this a religion, would you then respect it?

Scientology is not a religion, it's a fraud. And if we're not aloud to mock religion or anything that's important to people, we may as well make humour illegal because everything you can laugh at might be offensive to someone.

Denise4925
Nov 17th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Do you also have respect for people who believe blacks are inferior? Do your respect Ku Klux clan members? You claim you're not going to disrespect people about their beliefs.

Oh, don't be so obtuse. Believing that blacks are inferior is not a religion, nor is being a KKK member. That's not freedom of religion, that is freedom of speech and I do respect that right. I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll fight for your right to say it.

gentenaire
Nov 17th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Oh, don't be so obtuse. Believing that blacks are inferior is not a religion, nor is being a KKK member. That's not freedom of religion, that is freedom of speech and I do respect that right. I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll fight for your right to say it.

And what if it was a religion? What makes scientology a religion but not the KKK?

Denise4925
Nov 17th, 2006, 10:29 PM
And what if it was a religion?

If it were a religion, than I would still say that they have freedom to worship in this country.

What makes scientology a religion but not the KKK?
I guess because they don't claim it to be a religion. It's a club, just like the Freemasons, fraternities and sorrorities, etc.

gentenaire
Nov 17th, 2006, 10:33 PM
If it were a religion, than I would still say that they have freedom to worship in this country. .

It was never about freedom of speech. It was about respect. Would you respect a religion that claimed blacks are inferior?

Denise4925
Nov 17th, 2006, 10:57 PM
It was never about freedom of speech. It was about respect. Would you respect a religion that claimed blacks are inferior?

Good lord :rolleyes: You still don't get it. It's not about respect for the religion, it's about SHOWING respect to the believer.

gentenaire
Nov 17th, 2006, 11:04 PM
Good lord :rolleyes: You still don't get it. It's not about respect for the religion, it's about SHOWING respect to the believer.

Okay then, would you show respect to people who believe blacks are inferior?

BTW, we said scientology is BS. As far as I know scientology isn't a believer.

Rocketta
Nov 18th, 2006, 12:15 AM
Okay then, would you show respect to people who believe blacks are inferior?

BTW, we said scientology is BS. As far as I know scientology isn't a believer.

um, how is that analogy comparable? Tom Cruise is not in here posting his beliefs about Scientology? If the post was in response to a poster saying how great Scientology was that would be one thing but it wasn't.

Scientology isn't a person but it is belief system followed by people. If there was a message board where there was no one who claimed to be black would it make it alright for the posters there to say derogatory things?

It was disrespectful because this thread isn't about the merits of Scientology as a religion. It was disrespectful because to call a belief system bs is to call the people who believe's thinking below par to yours. Once again it's not about respecting Scientology as a religion...it's about showing respect to people who are not doing anything against the law, it's about showing respect to people who think different than you. The real question I have is why is it impossible to voice your displeasure for a religion in a way that is respectful for one's right to believe what they want but also gets the point across that you don't approve? Especially in a thread not even about the religion. If people have a problem with Tom's behavior.........that should be attributed to Tom and no one else. There are plenty of Scientologist that are not confrontational or say a word against anybody.

gentenaire
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:56 AM
*bangs head against desk*

Why can't you just answer my question?

I ask, would you show respect to a religion that claims blacks are inferior. I get the response that it's not about showing respect to the belief system but to the believer.

So then I ask if you could show respect to someone who believes blacks are inferior and I get the response that the comparison is wrong because it's not about showing respect to the believer because he's not in this thread, but to belief system in general.

Erh....

I repeat, would you be respectful to a belief system or a believer or whatever you want to call it who believes blacks are inferior? For the record, say they do nothing that is against the law, they don't harass people, they simply believe blacks are inferior, hold meetings, pray to their self-made white god.
Do you have it in you to be respectful for that? I don't. I cannot be respectful when I don't feel it.

My point is that I don't think you should be respectful just because something claims itself to be a religion.

So please answer my question. I repeat the question, would you be respectful or be able to show respect (and respect is not the same as giving them the right to say these things) to a belief system/religion/believer/whatever that feels blacks are inferior?

It's a simple yes or no question.

Rocketta
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:04 PM
The answer is yes.....have you heard of Mormons and their belief that blacks were inferior? How many times have you seen me talk about Mormons?

and for the record, I've never seen someone who believes they are superior and they don't act on it because what would be the point of thinking that way. Acting upon those feelings usually lead to breaking the law by discriminating.

I really don't see the analogy? The belief system is no different than any other religious group, little based on facts and a lot based on faith. :shrug:

Why the need for disrespectful behavior about a religion/idiology in a thread not about that subject when a 'I don't like Scientology' could've of sufficed or better yet start a thread about it?

What I hate is having to defend religious people to a group of people who complain about religious people being prejudicial but all the why exhibit the very same prejudicial, self-righteous, I know best behavior that they accuse the religious right of doing. There's good and bad in EVERYTHING.

gentenaire
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:40 PM
Where did I attack religious people?

Followers of Scientology aren't religious, since Scientology isn't a religion.

LR Hubbard saying Scientology is a religion doesn't make it a religion. In most countries, Scientology is listed as a sect.
I attack Scientology for claiming to be a religion when it's nothing but a fraud, a money making machine.

Rocketta
Nov 18th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Where did I attack religious people?

Followers of Scientology aren't religious, since Scientology isn't a religion.

LR Hubbard saying Scientology is a religion doesn't make it a religion. In most countries, Scientology is listed as a sect.
I attack Scientology for claiming to be a religion when it's nothing but a fraud, a money making machine.

The last paragraph wasn't just about this thread but this board in general and who's not answering questions now? I didn't say you were attacking religious people. BTW, under what authority do you get to chose what is or isn't a religion for other people? I belive the term is religious sect. Anyway, the OED says a sect is ....


a group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong.

• often derogatory a group that has separated from an established church; a nonconformist church.
• a philosophical or political group, esp. one regarded as extreme or dangerous.


You keep calling it a sect like that changes anything? :confused:

So once again........

Why the need for disrespectful behavior about a religion/idiology in a thread not about that subject when a 'I don't like Scientology' could've of sufficed or better yet start a thread about it?

Gooner
Nov 18th, 2006, 10:26 PM
I can't believe Oprah was invited and supposely Brooke Shields was.

ฉ@ฎeLess
Nov 18th, 2006, 10:34 PM
they should have invited her...and then they could do mass suicide wedding...with all the Hollywood "stars" ....

Veritas
Nov 19th, 2006, 01:02 AM
There are many ways people can make their opinions known. You can be up-front about it, you could imply it, you could word it in a way it won't offend others, etc., etc.

Of course in a democracy people have the right to choose how they go about this (provided they don't resort to murder or violence) but there's still a thing called common courtesy that's very relevant. You can be in-your-face, but you also have a choice to be more considerate. What way you choose plays a big part in how people react to it. You want people to respect your opinions? Then the best way to go about it is to make sure you put some thought to how you say things.

IMO, respect is earned, not inherent.

mykarma
Nov 19th, 2006, 04:28 AM
I can't believe Oprah was invited and supposely Brooke Shields was.
I heard that Brooke and Katie were friends. Plus, I don't understand what the big deal is, it's their wedding and they can invite who they want to. It's not as though it's Gayle/Gail getting married and didn't invite Oprah.

Anyway, I wish them well.

Apoleb
Nov 19th, 2006, 05:07 AM
There are many ways people can make their opinions known. You can be up-front about it, you could imply it, you could word it in a way it won't offend others, etc., etc.

Of course in a democracy people have the right to choose how they go about this (provided they don't resort to murder or violence) but there's still a thing called common courtesy that's very relevant. You can be in-your-face, but you also have a choice to be more considerate. What way you choose plays a big part in how people react to it. You want people to respect your opinions? Then the best way to go about it is to make sure you put some thought to how you say things.

IMO, respect is earned, not inherent.

I generally agree with what you say, but I am certainly NOT looking for the respect of scientologists or some other groups. :lol: It's also important to emphasize that in-your-face attitude, mockery and/or satire are also very important in a democratic society and they serve their own purposes, even when taking in considerations inter-relations, and the bottom line is that those positions should be tolerated (which is different from respected). (that's why you caricature in newspapers and programs like South Park). That's why I objected to the way some religious groups react to any sort of criticism of their religious beliefs, and adopt that holier-than-thou attitude. For them, it's unthinkable to mock the religious figure or the beliefs, and everytime one does that, they throw in a riot. Like I said, I think it's a mentality enhrited from the past and some people still like it to prevail, when religious institutions had control over society and dictated freedom of expression.

IcePrincess
Nov 19th, 2006, 08:04 AM
Oprah doesn't give a rat's-ass if she got invited to this sham wedding. :rolleyes:

Carry on.

:wavey: