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View Full Version : Will Justine surpass Serena in 'greatness'?


tennisIlove09
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:32 PM
Right now Serena has 7 Slams, Justine 5.
Serena has all four majors, Justine only needs Wimbledon (which she's come very close, probably only a matter of WHEN she will win it)
Both have won the YEC.
Both are very close in weeks at #1
Justine has ended the year #1 twice, Serena once.

So if Justine wins Wimbledon, is she at the same level as Serena?

Viktymise
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:33 PM
I think the H2H speaks for itself

franny
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:35 PM
Um, Justine needs a dominating year like Serena's. Otherwise, no.

pigam
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:36 PM
not really.
their carreers are too different i think. Hard to explain.

Dexter
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:36 PM
I think the H2H speaks for itselfdoes H2H between Roger and Nadal speak for itself also?

sweetpeas
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:37 PM
I agree with you franny! Also ,it the way Serena did it?

QUEENLINDSAY
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:37 PM
I think the H2H speaks for itself

Head to head does'nt prove anything.

But going back to the question.

Serena is still way ahead and I'll take Justine chances at wimbledon really slim, though I would count out that Justine will win more RG.

sweetpeas
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:39 PM
:wavey: I agree with you franny! Also ,it the way Serena did it?

Viktymise
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:41 PM
Head to head does'nt prove anything.

But going back to the question.

Serena is still way ahead and I'll take Justine chances at wimbledon really slim, though I would count out that Justine will win more RG.

It proves that Serena won most of her slams when she was beating JHH, same cant be said for JHH well except for RG03 :tape:

Shonami Slam
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:45 PM
noteable figure that should be added - weeks at #1:
Serena Williams 57
Henin-Hardenne - 45

but the belguim's tally is soon to rise a bit.

title tally:
henin 30
Serena 26

serena is still on top, but If henin can pull another year of this kind of caliver - a bit of luck in the finals and she might be surpassing some serena records.

The Daviator
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:50 PM
Even if Justine wins Wimbledon, Serena held all 4 at once, Justine will need to do that or win a few more Slams than Serena to overtake her...

tennisIlove09
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:50 PM
What is the H2H between the two?

Allez-H
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:51 PM
It proves that Serena won most of her slams when she was beating JHH, same cant be said for JHH well except for RG03 :tape:


yeah but it's not Justine fault that Serena either didn't play those Slams or she simply didn't make it to the stage where they could actually play against eachother :shrug:



And Justine would need to win Wimbledon and atleast 1 other Slam to achieve what Serena did. Surpassing her is something else ...

The Crow
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:56 PM
Oh no, not this discussion again :p

auntie janie
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:57 PM
Winning four Slams in a row puts Serena in a very, very special class. Justine could surpass some of Serena's other stats, and so in some ways she could possibly end up with the more illustrious career, but I don't see her duplicating that rare feat. Nor will she ever win a career Slam in doubles, as Serena has done.

But even so, I wish that seeing Justine inching her way higher and higher in tennis history would inspire Serena to get out there again, if only to try to make sure it doesn't happen! :D Don't get me wrong; I WANT Justine to be on top and to achieve as much as possible. But I also want SOMETHING, ANYTHING to motivate Serena to get serious and get back in the game for a few more years. :(

Steffica Greles
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:59 PM
I admire Justine far more than Serena - I think most people would do.

But you can't place her ahead for at least another two years. And even then, there'll still be the head to heads and the fact that at her peak, all too brief though it was, Serena was nothing short of breathtakingly good.

As a person I think Serena has proven to be a narcissistic, deluded, shallow, manipulative prima donna who has used to the game to advance her celebrity cravings. But as a player, she was undeniably extraordinary -- quite probably the best I've ever seen. And that's why she is such an unmitigated disappointment.

And her best days are long behind her now. I would be highly surprised if she has the desire to return to the level she once scaled, let alone the physical potential, which, of course, is greatly circumscribed by injuries.

QUEENLINDSAY
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:02 PM
I admire Justine far more than Serena - I think most people would do.

But you can't place her ahead for at least another two years. And even then, there'll still be the head to heads and the fact that at her peak, all too brief though it was, Serena was nothing short of breathtakingly good.

As a person I think Serena has proven to be a narcisstic, deluded, shallow, manipulative prima donna who has used to the game to advance her celebrity cravings. But as a player, she was undeniably extraordinary -- quite probably the best I've ever seen. And that's why she is such an unmitigated disappointment.

And her best days are long behind her now. I

so whats your point? does serena's character included in her achievements? I'm not saying your assesment of Serera's character is right though.

Steffica Greles
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:04 PM
so whats your point?

There's several. The one you were looking for - second paragraph. You see it now?

tennisIlove09
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:06 PM
2001-08-27 U.S. Open Hardcourt R16 Serena Williams (USA) 7-5 6-0
2001-10-29 Sanex Championships Indoor Hardcourt QF Serena Williams (USA) 6-3 7-6(5)
2002-05-06 BerlinClay F Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-2 1-6 7-6(5)
2002-05-13 Rome Clay F Serena Williams (USA) 7-6(6) 6-4
2002-09-23 Leipzig Indoor Carpet SF Serena Williams (USA) 6-4 6-2
2003-04-07 Charleston Clay F Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-3 6-4
2003-05-26 Roland Garros Clay SF Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-2 4-6 7-5
2003-06-23 Wimbledon Grass SF Serena Williams (USA) 6-3 6-2
Serena Williams (USA) leads 5:3
Hard: Serena Williams (USA) leads 2:0
Clay: Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) leads 3:1
Grass: Serena Williams (USA) leads 1:0
Indoor: Serena Williams (USA) leads 2:0

Interesting to note that Justine hasnt even taken a set off Serena outside of clay.

QUEENLINDSAY
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:06 PM
There's several. The one you were looking for - second paragraph. You see it now?

I dont see any point in judging a persons character.

SJW
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:06 PM
I admire Justine far more than Serena - I think most people would do.

But you can't place her ahead for at least another two years. And even then, there'll still be the head to heads and the fact that at her peak, all too brief though it was, Serena was nothing short of breathtakingly good.

As a person I think Serena has proven to be a narcissistic, deluded, shallow, manipulative prima donna who has used to the game to advance her celebrity cravings. But as a player, she was undeniably extraordinary -- quite probably the best I've ever seen. And that's why she is such an unmitigated disappointment.

And her best days are long behind her now. I would be highly surprised if she has the desire to return to the level she once scaled, let alone the physical potential, which, of course, is greatly circumscribed by injuries.

Speechless:help:

tobe
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:08 PM
what has H2H to do with it....
I mean after Justine reached her peek which was in 2003 they only played 3 times against e.o, with Justine leading 2-1!!! I m not saying that J surpassed serena but I think there H2H would be only relavat if they played mor often at the time they both were playing there best

Dementieva_Dude
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:09 PM
I think they are both great players, but they have completely different careers. IMO, Justine will have to win at least 9 slams to be considered better than Serena. Serena was dominant for a long time, in a way that Justine hasn't been. Part of Serena's "greatness" comes from the fact that she revolutionized the game, and her legend goes far beyond her wins and losses. Can Justine catch her....I think she can, but Serena still holds the upperhand.

Steffica Greles
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Speechless:help:

I like your avatar:drool: :hearts:

No Name Face
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:11 PM
Hopefully not, but Serena can't just sit around....she's gotta get back and win more in order to ensure her legacy as this generation's best player.

Steffica Greles
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:12 PM
I dont see any point in judging a persons character.

"Greatness" is subjective. Justine has shown great strength of character throughout her career. I thought it was worth mentioning. And as we're being asked to compare to Serena, that's what I did. But over all I decided it's results that count.

die_wahrheit
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Right now Serena has 7 Slams, Justine 5.
Serena has all four majors, Justine only needs Wimbledon (which she's come very close, probably only a matter of WHEN she will win it)
Both have won the YEC.
Both are very close in weeks at #1
Justine has ended the year #1 twice, Serena once.

So if Justine wins Wimbledon, is she at the same level as Serena?

Don't forget, Serena did this in 12 months. She stays in the books as a rare Grand Slam-winner (ITF-rules). It's not a real Grand Slam as we all know, but it's something very rare and of more value than Henins achievements.


That's a big thing for Henin to do.
One Wimbledon title doesn't promote her.

sugimomo
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:19 PM
theres a huge difference in getting to all four grand slam finals in one year and winning all four in the one year, so no i dont think she will surpass her in greatness even if she wins a few more slams than serena. serena has personality and other qualities which justine lacks.

auntie janie
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:23 PM
2001-08-27 U.S. Open Hardcourt R16 Serena Williams (USA) 7-5 6-0
2001-10-29 Sanex Championships Indoor Hardcourt QF Serena Williams (USA) 6-3 7-6(5)
2002-05-06 BerlinClay F Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-2 1-6 7-6(5)
2002-05-13 Rome Clay F Serena Williams (USA) 7-6(6) 6-4
2002-09-23 Leipzig Indoor Carpet SF Serena Williams (USA) 6-4 6-2
2003-04-07 Charleston Clay F Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-3 6-4
2003-05-26 Roland Garros Clay SF Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-2 4-6 7-5
2003-06-23 Wimbledon Grass SF Serena Williams (USA) 6-3 6-2
Serena Williams (USA) leads 5:3
Hard: Serena Williams (USA) leads 2:0
Clay: Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) leads 3:1
Grass: Serena Williams (USA) leads 1:0
Indoor: Serena Williams (USA) leads 2:0

Interesting to note that Justine hasnt even taken a set off Serena outside of clay.

Also interesting to note that they only played three times since Justine got fit and started to blossom as a player, and Justine won two of those three. :cool:

They haven't played at all since June, 2003, just as Justine was coming into her (first) prime. And that's a shame; I'd love to see them going at it again, on every surface.

StarDuvallGrant
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:23 PM
I admire Justine far more than Serena - I think most people would do.

But you can't place her ahead for at least another two years. And even then, there'll still be the head to heads and the fact that at her peak, all too brief though it was, Serena was nothing short of breathtakingly good.

As a person I think Serena has proven to be a narcissistic, deluded, shallow, manipulative prima donna who has used to the game to advance her celebrity cravings. But as a player, she was undeniably extraordinary -- quite probably the best I've ever seen. And that's why she is such an unmitigated disappointment.

And her best days are long behind her now. I would be highly surprised if she has the desire to return to the level she once scaled, let alone the physical potential, which, of course, is greatly circumscribed by injuries.

Absolute :bs:

die_wahrheit
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:25 PM
Henin can surpass her if she wins another 2 or 3 major titles (including THE major championship of tennis, of course).
That's possible in the next years.

Although I don't like her (just to repeat that).

Time for Serena to wake up and give Henin a fight.
Maybe Weight Watchers can help.

jazar
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:28 PM
justine can easily surpass her if she stays fit. in my estimation justine is the much more talented player anyway. she can do it all, whereas all serena can do is blast you off the court and that doesnt always work

dreamgoddess099
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:35 PM
Don't forget, Serena did this in 12 months. She stays in the books as a rare Grand Slam-winner (ITF-rules). It's not a real Grand Slam as we all know, but it's something very rare and of more value than Henins achievements.


That's a big thing for Henin to do.
One Wimbledon title doesn't promote her.
That's the way I feel about it too. Serena is the one (along with Venus) who helped take women's tennis to that next level in so many ways. In popularity, diversity, athleticism, and paving the way for female athletes to receive huge endorsements these days. Serena's legacy is going to be much greater. The fact that Justine has played far more tournaments than Serena and still hasn't surpassed her in "greatness" speaks volumes.

-GenEz.Williams
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:37 PM
i dont think she will surpass serena..justine is great but serena is phenomenal

Stamp Paid
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:45 PM
If Justine contunues at her current rate and Serena continues at her current rate, I'm almost certain she will.

serenafan08
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:51 PM
Serena will stay ahead of Justine, even if Justine wins Wimbledon. Serena has done so many things for the game that her greatness goes beyond what she does on court. Justine has also had too many controversial moments in her career, and people don't forget those too easy. Besides, Serena still has majors left in her, and I think she'll stay ahead of Justine in that category.

Stamp Paid
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:52 PM
"Greatness" is subjective. Justine has shown great strength of character throughout her career. I thought it was worth mentioning. And as we're being asked to compare to Serena, that's what I did. But over all I decided it's results that count.

ROTFLMAO! Wait a minute...

Justine has showed more strength of character than Serena in her career? :eek::eek::eek: Perhaps a bit more commitment, but you are out of your MIND. Between Indian Wells F 01 to the USO QF in 2004, Serena has shown FAR more strength of character in those 2 matches than Justine ever will in her ENTIRE career.

I'd stick to the pure numbers in this discussion and leave those intangibles such as fight, strength of will, character, etc out of this discussion if i were you.

Just Do It
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:55 PM
One word : NO !

Ferosh
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Absolutely.

StarDuvallGrant
Nov 13th, 2006, 08:12 PM
ROTFLMAO! Wait a minute...

Justine has showed more strength of character than Serena in her career? :eek::eek::eek: Perhaps a bit more commitment, but you are out of your MIND. Between Indian Wells F 01 to the USO QF in 2004, Serena has shown FAR more strength of character in those 2 matches than Justine ever will in her ENTIRE career.

I'd stick to the pure numbers in this discussion and leave those intangibles such as fight, strength of will, character, etc out of this discussion if i were you.

:worship:

WSfan
Nov 13th, 2006, 08:17 PM
When Justine wins Aus and US Open again including Wimbledon... maybe

kadirelf
Nov 13th, 2006, 08:20 PM
serena won 7 grand slam titles
justine won 5 grand slam titiles but no wimbledon

serena won 6 doubles grand slam titles
justine no

serena won 2 mixed doubles grand slam titles
justine no..

SERENE REAL NUMBER ONE

dreamgoddess099
Nov 13th, 2006, 08:22 PM
I admire Justine far more than Serena - I think most people would do.Not judging by the responses in this thread. Don't lie on other people because you can't and obviously don't speak for them. Your opinion should stand on it's own.

But you can't place her ahead for at least another two years. And even then, there'll still be the head to heads and the fact that at her peak, all too brief though it was, Serena was nothing short of breathtakingly good. Even if Justine had the same amount of slams today as Serena, I still think Serena would be greater. It's not just Serena's amount of slams, it's how she got them.

As a person I think Serena has proven to be a narcissistic, deluded, shallow, manipulative prima donna who has used to the game to advance her celebrity cravings. I think your opinion of her is shallow, deluded, and manipulative. One couldn't focus long enough to achieve the success Serena has achieved if they were all those things. It takes a lot of self sacrifice, dedication, and commitment for one to work hard towards a goal during the years that the average youngster spends living it up. It takes lots of mental strength and control to harness one's power to get to the level of success Serena has gotten to . Those kinds of attributes do not exist in the type of person you paint her as. A person such as you describe would be far too lazy, arrogant, and stuck up to get dirty doing any kind of hard work.


But as a player, she was undeniably extraordinary -- quite probably the best I've ever seen. And that's why she is such an unmitigated disappointment.
Extraordinary, breathtakingly good, and the best you've ever seen. You're right, who admires such things?:lol:



And her best days are long behind her now. I would be highly surprised if she has the desire to return to the level she once scaled, let alone the physical potential, which, of course, is greatly circumscribed by injuries.Well those Williamses do love to surprise so you just might get one.

supergrunt
Nov 13th, 2006, 08:35 PM
Not judging by the responses in this thread. Don't lie on other people because you can't and obviously don't speak for them. Your opinion should stand on it's own.

Even if Justine had the same amount of slams today as Serena, I still think Serena would be greater. It's not just Serena's amount of slams, it's how she got them.

I think your opinion of her is shallow, deluded, and manipulative. One couldn't focus long enough to achieve the success Serena has achieved if they were all those things. It takes a lot of self sacrifice, dedication, and commitment for one to work hard towards a goal during the years that the average youngster spends living it up. It takes lots of mental strength and control to harness one's power to get to the level of success Serena has gotten to . Those kinds of attributes do not exist in the type of person you paint her as. A person such as you describe would be far too lazy, arrogant, and stuck up to get dirty doing any kind of hard work.



Extraordinary, breathtakingly good, and the best you've ever seen. You're right, who admires such things?:lol:



Well those Williamses do love to surprise so you just might get one.

You just said everything that I wanted to say to that particular poster :lol: I would not have been so nice though... :)

rjd1111
Nov 13th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Right now Serena has 7 Slams, Justine 5.
Serena has all four majors, Justine only needs Wimbledon (which she's come very close, probably only a matter of WHEN she will win it)
Both have won the YEC.
Both are very close in weeks at #1
Justine has ended the year #1 twice, Serena once.

So if Justine wins Wimbledon, is she at the same level as Serena?


Not!

rjd1111
Nov 13th, 2006, 08:44 PM
It proves that Serena won most of her slams when she was beating JHH, same cant be said for JHH well except for RG03 :tape:

Serena was beating her in that one too, Until " The Hand " reared its
ugly head.

Kunal
Nov 13th, 2006, 08:58 PM
not if serena has a say in it...

buckyohare
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:07 PM
For that I think she need to have a double digit slam count or win 3/4 slams in a row including wimby.

Whether you agree or not(i don't) the tennis media still pretty much see Serena as THE ruthless, overpowering, dominant player of the tour, that when at 75% fitness, would steamroll the whole wtatour. Which I guess is kind of understanderstable, considering the SerenaSlam and the fashion she attained it.

Justine, I think, "missed" her chance in the spring of 2004, when she caught that nasty virus. I really believed she could win her own Slam after AO2004. Looking back, without disrespecting the eventual slamwinners, it wouldn't be such a stretch.

cellophane
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:12 PM
She will if she wins other slams than just the French and more slams than Serena, which at this point is plausible.

maximus82
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:28 PM
If Justine wins more slams (including wimbledon at least once), she will be the greater player. Slams mark the calibre of a player, bar none. Yes Serena's dominant period was impressive...but a lower intensity, but in the end bigger yield career wins.

So far Justine still has a number of slams to win and who can say whether Serena won't come back eventually...so it is a pointless question at this point in a way.

Brooklyn90
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:47 PM
does H2H between Roger and Nadal speak for itself also?

h2h and grand slams speak for itself, serena wins in both categories.

Mother_Marjorie
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:47 PM
If Justine wins more slams (including wimbledon at least once), she will be the greater player. Slams mark the calibre of a player, bar none. Yes Serena's dominant period was impressive...but a lower intensity, but in the end bigger yield career wins.

So far Justine still has a number of slams to win and who can say whether Serena won't come back eventually...so it is a pointless question at this point in a way.

If you look at the past four years (2003-2006), Justine was 205-28 (88%) with five GS wins, 1 YEC and 1 Olympic Gold, 21 tournament titles. And that includes a lengthy break in 2004.

If the trend continues, Justine will surpass Serena unless Serena can regain her 2003 form and physical conditioning.

I was just looking at Serena's seasons the past four years beginning with the year of her injury (2003-2006) and she won 6 titles, includes 3 GS wins and 109-29 (82%) record.

What's strange is that they've not played each other in 3 1/2 years.

I think its a little early to tell. However, whoever ends with more weeks at #1, more Grand Slam singles titles and more tournament wins will win the career battle.

Brooklyn90
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:50 PM
serena is the better overall palyer on
competing on all surfaces
doubles
singles
mix doubles

when justine wins four grand slams in a row then i will say she is the better palyer.

SJW
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:54 PM
In 2002 and even 2003, Serena looked unstoppable. It looked like she could even threaten Graf's record. She was the Federer before Federer.
Then, out of nowhere, so got injured and stayed injured. JHH winning multiple slams every year for the next 5 years isn't a foregone conclusion. It depends not only on her, but other players.

Dunlop1
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Re: The Grandslam argument.
Serena has a career grandslam, not THE grandslam (like Steffi).
She did not win all four in one calendar year. It doesn't matter if she won them all in a row. That's why they started calling it the 'Serena Slam' because it wasn't technically a grandslam.

Now if Justine wins Wimbledon (which she should have by now :mad: hello 2 finals!!) she will have a career grandslam and be on equal terms with Serena in that respect.

IMO Justine is a better player than Serena and if she can play at the top of her game for 2 consecutive years there's no reason she can't surpass Serena's singles achievements.

Brooklyn90
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:08 PM
serena and venus's injury in 2003 opend up the door for other players to start winning grand slams. If they weren't injured justine winning the 03 usopen and 04 australian open would have been very unllikely

~Cherry*Blossom~
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:24 PM
I don't think Justine will ever be greater than Serena.

She may end up winning more slams if Serena keeps getting injured, but IMO Serena is and always will be in a different league to Justine.

IceHock
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:42 PM
Serena was one of the most dominnt players in history although her really only competition was her sister in 2002-2003. I think Justine will pass her in slams and maybe weeks at number 1.

crazillo
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:43 PM
Yes.

Mother_Marjorie
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:44 PM
serena and venus's injury in 2003 opend up the door for other players to start winning grand slams. If they weren't injured justine winning the 03 usopen and 04 australian open would have been very unllikely

So what's the excuse for 2005 and 2006?

pooh14
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:50 PM
nope, justine would form her own greatness, as serena did.

again and again, i do not like to compare players.
lagends do not get replaced or compared.

hingis, serena, henin...all 3 great players in their own ways

StarDuvallGrant
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:54 PM
nope, justine would form her own greatness, as serena did.

again and again, i do not like to compare players.
lagends do not get replaced or compared.

hingis, serena, henin...all 3 great players in their own ways

And it should be left at this right here. You stated it really perfectly.

die_wahrheit
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:58 PM
Re: The Grandslam argument.
Serena has a career grandslam, not THE grandslam (like Steffi).
She did not win all four in one calendar year. It doesn't matter if she won them all in a row. That's why they started calling it the 'Serena Slam' because it wasn't technically a grandslam.



That is technically a Grand Slam after ITF rules.
It's not a Grand Slam after historic rules.
But it is more than a career slam.

Vlover
Nov 13th, 2006, 11:25 PM
ROTFLMAO! Wait a minute...

Justine has showed more strength of character than Serena in her career? :eek::eek::eek: Perhaps a bit more commitment, but you are out of your MIND. Between Indian Wells F 01 to the USO QF in 2004, Serena has shown FAR more strength of character in those 2 matches than Justine ever will in her ENTIRE career.

I'd stick to the pure numbers in this discussion and leave those intangibles such as fight, strength of will, character, etc out of this discussion if i were you.

You are exactly right! That poster is clearly suffering from myopia and therefore have lost all credibility. Justine's integrity has been questionable on numerous occasions on the record.

The main difference between both is that Justine's "greatness" is yet to be defined while Serena has already done that. Both have gotten to 4 consecutive major finals but Serena WON all of hers. No one knows what will happen in the future because don't forget injuries can occur at any time to anyone so those who are presently on their high horses proceed with caution.

Brooklyn90
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:09 AM
So what's the excuse for 2005 and 2006?

injury................

treufreund
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:16 AM
I don't like this kind of thread. just designed to start a fight. serena has been, is and will be great. Justine has been, is and will be great . Enough said

nbaker53
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:25 AM
meh

dreamgoddess099
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:33 AM
Re: The Grandslam argument.
Serena has a career grandslam, not THE grandslam (like Steffi).
She did not win all four in one calendar year. It doesn't matter if she won them all in a row. That's why they started calling it the 'Serena Slam' because it wasn't technically a grandslam.
She still won four consecutive majors, which is still bigger than anything Justine has been able to do.

Now if Justine wins Wimbledon (which she should have by now :mad: hello 2 finals!!) she will have a career grandslam and be on equal terms with Serena in that respect. If Serena wins one more FO she'll have two career grandslams, while even if Justine did win Wimbly, she'd still need to win another Aussie, US Open, and Wimbly to be on the same level as Serena. There is only 1 slam that Serena hasn't won twice, while there are 3 slams that Justine hasn't won twice.

IMO Justine is a better player than Serena and if she can play at the top of her game for 2 consecutive years there's no reason she can't surpass Serena's singles achievements.
If Justine were a better player than Serena she would have already surpassed her and not need two more years to do what she had the opportunity to do this year.

Ben.
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:51 AM
nope, justine would form her own greatness, as serena did.

again and again, i do not like to compare players.
lagends do not get replaced or compared.

hingis, serena, henin...all 3 great players in their own ways

agree. comparing greatness of some players is something i really do not like doing as well 2 & u have 2 go in2 a lot of detail. justine is a champion & so is serena, they're both great champions lets say :worship:

G1Player2
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:56 AM
She still won four consecutive majors, which is still bigger than anything Justine has been able to do.

If Serena wins one more FO she'll have two career grandslams, while even if Justine did win Wimbly, she'd still need to win another Aussie, US Open, and Wimbly to be on the same level as Serena. There is only 1 slam that Serena hasn't won twice, while there are 3 slams that Justine hasn't won twice.


If Justine were a better player than Serena she would have already surpassed her and not need two more years to do what she had the opportunity to do this year.


OMG, speak it Dremagoddess. Just speak it. :worship: :worship: :worship:

Dunlop1
Nov 14th, 2006, 04:18 AM
She still won four consecutive majors, which is still bigger than anything Justine has been able to do.

It is bigger than anything Justine has been able to do yet.

If Serena wins one more FO she'll have two career grandslams, while even if Justine did win Wimbly, she'd still need to win another Aussie, US Open, and Wimbly to be on the same level as Serena. There is only 1 slam that Serena hasn't won twice, while there are 3 slams that Justine hasn't won twice.

Well the chances of Serena winning another French Open are pretty much nil, if one is to be realistic. However the odds are a bit better for Justine to win a WImbledon and other grandslams. She just made all four finals.

If Justine were a better player than Serena she would have already surpassed her and not need two more years to do what she had the opportunity to do this year.

Well, Serena started her career earlier than Justine so that's what the 2 years are for.

dreamgoddess099
Nov 14th, 2006, 04:49 AM
If you look at the past four years (2003-2006)Justine was 205-28 (88%) with five GS wins, 1 YEC and 1 Olympic Gold, 21 tournament titles. And that includes a lengthy break in 2004.

If the trend continues, Justine will surpass Serena unless Serena can regain her 2003 form and physical conditioning.

I was just looking at Serena's seasons the past four years beginning with the year of her injury (2003-2006) and she won 6 titles, includes 3 GS wins and 109-29 (82%) record.
I love how you mention Justine's lengthy break, but not the lengthy breaks Serena has taken every playing season since 2003. It's clear Serena's numbers have dwindled because of all the time and tournaments she's missed due to injury. In the past four years Serena has played a total of 33 tournaments, that's an average of 8 tournaments a year, when the average player plays 14 to 17 a year.

What's strange is that they've not played each other in 3 1/2 years.Probably because of those lengthy breaks.

I think its a little early to tell. However, whoever ends with more weeks at #1, more Grand Slam singles titles and more tournament wins will win the career battle.
Grandslam titles matter most, weeks at #1 and overall titles are mainly used as tiebreakers. Venus doesn't have as many weeks at #1 and overall titles than Lindsay, but is perceived greater and Serena as well has less of both than Hingis, but is perceived greater.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Nov 14th, 2006, 04:56 AM
does H2H between Roger and Nadal speak for itself also?

Yes .

dreamgoddess099
Nov 14th, 2006, 04:58 AM
Well the chances of Serena winning another French Open are pretty much nil, if one is to be realistic. However the odds are a bit better for Justine to win a WImbledon and other grandslams. She just made all four finals.
Serena has already won one FO, so I think the odds of her doing something she's already proven she can do are better than Justine doing something she has never proven she can. Justine has made the finals of Wimbledon twice and still couldn't win it, while the first time Serena made the FO final she found a way to win it.

Well, Serena started her career earlier than Justine so that's what the 2 years are for.
But Justine has already played about 30 career tournaments more than Serena, so that 2 year head start didn't give Serena an advantage as far as match play.

cheo23
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:11 AM
oh please...even though I love QUEEN JUSTINE, she is DEFINETLY way behind SERENA ...so no she won't surpass SERENA in "GREATNESS"

GET IT TOGETHER QUEEN JUSTINE FANS!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

G1Player2
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:13 AM
oh please...even though I love QUEEN JUSTINE, she is DEFINETLY way behind SERENA ...so no she won't surpass SERENA in "GREATNESS"

GET IT TOGETHER QUEEN JUSTINE FANS!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

:eek:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:13 AM
They both are behind of Monica Seles , Billie Jean King .

aussie_stars
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:14 AM
They haven't played at all since June, 2003, just as Justine was coming into her (first) prime. And that's a shame; I'd love to see them going at it again, on every surface.

that says it all really.....

why havent they played since 2003? because Serena has been injured and out of action a lot!

and isn't it amazing that justine 'was just coming into her prime' at the exact same time that Serena and Venus for that matter began to succumb to injuries and of course a lack of interest after that.

The fact that the level of play today is well below 2002-2003 gives us the answer of greatness.

Orion
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:22 AM
Possibly. Not definitely.

Justine won multiple slams in the same year once. Only once. 2003. Which, as we know, is clouded with some controversy. Serena already has won multiple slams in two years, 2002 and 2003. None of those wins contains controversy that I can remember. Also, 2002 was the year she won three slams, a perfect record of the ones she competed in. Justine hasn't gotten that yet.

In addition, it's worthwhile noting that Serena has won 26 of the 93 tournaments that she has played, while Justine has won 30 of the 129 tournaments she has played. As a side note, Chris Evert won 154 of the 300 career tournaments she played. That's right, over 50%.

p.s. this does not take out the Fed Cup results, or other tournaments that count as career match wins.

G1Player2
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:26 AM
Possibly. Not definitely.

Justine won multiple slams in the same year once. Only once. 2003. Which, as we know, is clouded with some controversy. Serena already has won multiple slams in two years, 2002 and 2003. None of those wins contains controversy that I can remember. Also, 2002 was the year she won three slams, a perfect record of the ones she competed in. Justine hasn't gotten that yet.

In addition, it's worthwhile noting that Serena has won 26 of the 93 tournaments that she has played, while Justine has won 30 of the 129 tournaments she has played. As a side note, Chris Evert won 154 of the 300 career tournaments she played. That's right, over 50%.

p.s. this does not take out the Fed Cup results, or other tournaments that count as career match wins.

Back then there were last rounds to win tournaments and less games to win in a set.

Dunlop1
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:32 AM
oh please...even though I love QUEEN JUSTINE, she is DEFINETLY way behind SERENA ...so no she won't surpass SERENA in "GREATNESS"

GET IT TOGETHER QUEEN JUSTINE FANS!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

:fiery: :speakles: :lol:

Jeff
Nov 14th, 2006, 06:05 AM
Without a doubt Serena is the "greater" player in the sports world, and she is so without even devoting 100% to tennis as Justine has, which is somewhat unfortunate but of course it's Serena's life and she has achieved what she has wanted to achieve to this point...which is what makes her so great. If Serena is truely focused and wants something, she will get it. I don't think many can doubt that if Serena returned to focusing 100%...or at least 90% and healthy, that she would be winning many more slams. I just hope that focus returns again.

silverwhite
Nov 14th, 2006, 06:18 AM
Maybe if she wins two more slams (not unlikely) :)

faboozadoo15
Nov 14th, 2006, 06:25 AM
justine should pass serena with a wimbledon title and another 1,2 majors. it's SCARY that she could pass monica in slams as well!

head to head means shit in this case. serena has been on her ass since justine has flourished. greatest year means slightly more (and justine will most probably not have a year like serena's 2002). however, justine will have more weeks at number 1, more titles, an olympic gold in singles, longer slam-winning period. think mini chris evert.

MrSerenaWilliams
Nov 14th, 2006, 06:49 AM
Serena will always be greater because she won 4 in a row. If/when Justine does that, then she can be considered greater. Also, Serena's peak was in the "golden age" of this tennis decade. All of the superstars were there and healthy from the 2001 US Open - 2003 Wimbledon. Justine has accomplished a lot, but some people will consider her accomplishments with a grain of salt because the best player of the decade was absent in 4 of the 5 majors she won. Justine was present in all of the 4 in a row that Serena won.

Serge007
Nov 14th, 2006, 07:38 AM
Also, Serena's peak was in the "golden age" of this tennis decade.
Serena's peak was in the "american age" (Capriati, Davenport, Seles, Venus) + Hingis. Today is "european age" (Henin, Mauresmo, Clijsters, Hingis) + russian girls... Next year or two could be "russian age": Sharapova, Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Petrova, Safina, Chakvetadze, Myskina, Zvonareva.

MrSerenaWilliams
Nov 14th, 2006, 07:41 AM
Serena's peak was in the "american age" (Capriati, Davenport, Seles, Venus) + Hingis. Today is "european age" (Henin, Mauresmo, Clijsters, Hingis) + russian girls... Next year or two could be "russian age": Sharapova, Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Petrova, Safina, Chakvetadze, Myskina, Zvonareva.

Clisters, Henin, Kournikova, Mauresmo, and other top players were around during Serena's reign.

Serge007
Nov 14th, 2006, 07:58 AM
Clisters, Henin, Kournikova, Mauresmo, and other top players were around during Serena's reign.
Clijsters and Mauresmo won GS after "Serena's reign". Only Henin...

die_wahrheit
Nov 14th, 2006, 09:51 AM
Serena will always be greater
No, if she doesn't wake up, Henin will surpass her sometime.

4 in a row is nice and gives her a solid lead, but that won't last forever.

vesanto
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:10 AM
I think people should stop saying that the actual top players only managed to win Slams and big tournaments because Serena and even Venus are not playing... :o :rolleyes:
Staying healthy and committed to the game is, for me, also a part of greatness and we all know that for example the Williams sisters got injured a lot because they maybe go for too much in every shot...

In terms of greatness, it is not really important if Serena is present or no, Henin is getting closer and closer, she only needs to win Wimbledon and in my opinion, they will be in the same league...
About the 2002 Serena's domination, yeah that is an important factor but Henin is also getting closer in weeks at number 1...even if they divided through the years...

Sharapova's_Boy
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:17 AM
GET IT TOGETHER QUEEN JUSTINE FANS!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

:haha:

Loves it.

justine&coria
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:23 AM
We all know (even the Serena fans) that the Williamses didn't play Justine at her peak, while Justine had to play them at their best.
It's not Justine's fault, and saying that Serena at her best would beat Justine at her best (or the opposite) is pure speculation.

Concerning Wimbledon, except for this year and and last year (she was sick), she lost to the bests ever : Serena and Venus. Let's give her some more chances (Even if it's quite irrelevant, I'd like to add that Serena didn't have to play Justine to win RG ;)).

And Justine has one more thing than Serena : Serena's true dominance was quite short (one year) : Justine managed to come back twice and show that she's still the best.

That being said, of course if Justine wins the calendar Slam she'll surpass Serena (in term of tennis career), but two more years like this year would do it too.

Anyway, even as a big Justine fan (I loved the old Serena too), I admit that Serena brought to tennis a lot more than Justine will ever do. (but that's not tennis career). For the same matter, Seles is a bigger tennis icon than Serena even if she never won Wimby.

What'd be really great is that Serena comes back to her best next year : a rivalry between Justine and Serena would be so great, because when they both play at their best, they seem so unbeatable.

saki
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:24 AM
Justine stands a good chance of getting a higher GS singles title total but, even if she does, their careers will be hard to compare. Serena, unless she storms back next year (and I hope she will), is going to be remembered as a supernova type player - stormed in, won everything, stormed out again. Justine will be remembered as a player with a long and consistent career. It's hard to compare those directly.

justine&coria
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:27 AM
and isn't it amazing that justine 'was just coming into her prime' at the exact same time that Serena and Venus for that matter began to succumb to injuries and of course a lack of interest after that.

Justine was quite good when Serena was playing her best, but against Serena it just wasn't enough.
She got a lot better since : just watch her old matches and you'll see the big difference.
So no, it's not amazing at all.

Ntour
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:38 AM
when justine wins the grand slam or at least a justine slam she can be called greater than or equal to serena, obviously right now justine kicks serenas ass but in terms of achievements serena leads at the moment, I do think justine will win more slams but i'm not sure if she will get the justine slam or grand slam yet, although she came close this year, maybe she'll do it this year

Kunal
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:42 AM
if serena is fit again...then she is going to move ahead in the next year

Matt01
Nov 14th, 2006, 12:30 PM
Serena will always be greater because she won 4 in a row. If/when Justine does that, then she can be considered greater. .

Ermm, that's a contradiction, isn't it? First you say that Serena will always be greater, then you say that Justine will be considered greater when she does the same and wins the 4 GS in a row . :scratch:

Justine will be considered greater IMO when she has won more GS titles than Serena.


Also, Serena's peak was in the "golden age" of this tennis decade. All of the superstars were there and healthy from the 2001 US Open - 2003 Wimbledon.

Are you kidding me? 2001 USO, yes she beat the No. 1+2 players in the world, but in 2002 at the FO and Wimbledon, Hingis and Davenport were injured and just came back before the USO where they were not in the best shape. (And that's not meant as an excuse, she won these GS fair and square, but please don't act if Serena's GS titles are worth than Justine's later because they were ina strange "golden age" or whatever...)

j-fan
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Pound for pound, Justine won more GS than Serena. :haha: :haha: :haha:

Seriously, Serena is greater at this point in time. More GS, Serena Slam. It is an open question, which we will never find out, is whether Serena at her peak can beat the Justine at 2006 YEC or RG. Justine certainly did not beat Serena in the 2003 W. H2H is not a good indicator because they peaked at different times.

They have totally different personalities. One is a total extrovert. The other, a total introvert. However, they both have to overcome adversities to achieve what they have already achieved. Serena brings power, athleticism and more power to the game. Justine brings variety, grace, and more variety. Which game do you prefer, to each it own. Serena cannot play Justines game, and vice versa.

Serena is greater now. Justine may catch-up but not for certain.

But one thing is for certain, Justine came back more times from serious career threatening sickness and injuries to win gold and GS than Serena had so far.

They both deserve our :worship:

But my personal preference is the best single handed backhand in the world. :worship: :worship: :worship:

trivfun
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:52 PM
Justine is the "Clubber Lang" of tennis. You hate her but you can't get more of her.

faste5683
Nov 14th, 2006, 04:14 PM
Personally, I think we should be more concerned with getting the mortgage
paid off and/or finishing our education than worrying about this kind of crap.

Btw, we all know that Serena put the "great" in "Greatness".

:wavey:

rikvanlooy
Nov 14th, 2006, 04:36 PM
2001-08-27 U.S. Open Hardcourt R16 Serena Williams (USA) 7-5 6-0
2001-10-29 Sanex Championships Indoor Hardcourt QF Serena Williams (USA) 6-3 7-6(5)
2002-05-06 BerlinClay F Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-2 1-6 7-6(5)
2002-05-13 Rome Clay F Serena Williams (USA) 7-6(6) 6-4
2002-09-23 Leipzig Indoor Carpet SF Serena Williams (USA) 6-4 6-2
2003-04-07 Charleston Clay F Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-3 6-4
2003-05-26 Roland Garros Clay SF Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) 6-2 4-6 7-5
2003-06-23 Wimbledon Grass SF Serena Williams (USA) 6-3 6-2
Serena Williams (USA) leads 5:3
Hard: Serena Williams (USA) leads 2:0
Clay: Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) leads 3:1
Grass: Serena Williams (USA) leads 1:0
Indoor: Serena Williams (USA) leads 2:0

Interesting to note that Justine hasnt even taken a set off Serena outside of clay.

Hm, can you put the h2h of Hingis-Henin ? Henin never won against Hingis before her first retirement (see also those first wins of Serena against Henin in the same years).

Since then the tables have turned. Henin is clearly the better player than Hingis. Hingis has still achieved more than Henin, but according to me that's just a matter of time (maybe already next year).

Does anybody think that Serena is going to blow Henin away like she did in 2001 and 2002 (Henin almost always lost to Kim in those years) ?

Uranus
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:18 PM
Looks like she will.

winmic
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:24 PM
Don't forget, Serena did this in 12 months. She stays in the books as a rare Grand Slam-winner (ITF-rules). It's not a real Grand Slam as we all know, but it's something very rare and of more value than Henins achievements.


That's a big thing for Henin to do.
One Wimbledon title doesn't promote her.

Don't forget Justine has won also the olympic games.

Paneru
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:25 PM
I think people should stop saying that the actual top players only managed to win Slams and big tournaments because Serena and even Venus are not playing... :o :rolleyes:
Staying healthy and committed to the game is, for me, also a part of greatness and we all know that for example the Williams sisters got injured a lot because they maybe go for too much in every shot...

In terms of greatness, it is not really important if Serena is present or no, Henin is getting closer and closer, she only needs to win Wimbledon and in my opinion, they will be in the same league...
About the 2002 Serena's domination, yeah that is an important factor but Henin is also getting closer in weeks at number 1...even if they divided through the years...

No, they won't!

Serena's career in singles, doubles, &
mixed doubles has yet to see Justine come close.

Justine has also and nearly a two year period on
Serena where she has combined only played around
ten tournaments in the entire span of time.

i.e. Serena's been giving her time to catch-up. ;)

Sanneriet
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:26 PM
At the end of the day, discussions about head to heads or level of competition are for the tennis fans only. Most people are only going to look at total Grand Slams won, total career titles, weeks at number one. If Justine's name ends up above Serena's on the lists of total slams won, in 20 years etc. most people will say Justine must have been better. The fans will debate forever using whatever less objective criteria they want. Hence the Graf/Navratilova debate that goes on right now.

MrSerenaWilliams
Nov 14th, 2006, 05:52 PM
I'd like to add that Serena didn't have to play Justine to win RG ;)
she beat her at Rome a week before in 2 sets, and in Berlin she should have won that one too :wavey:

Justine stands a good chance of getting a higher GS singles title total but, even if she does, their careers will be hard to compare. Serena, unless she storms back next year (and I hope she will), is going to be remembered as a supernova type player - stormed in, won everything, stormed out again. Justine will be remembered as a player with a long and consistent career. It's hard to compare those directly.
I agree 100%

We all know that Serena put the "great" in "Greatness".:wavey:
:hug:

SelesFan70
Nov 14th, 2006, 06:03 PM
She'll have to get Wimbledon, which I fully believe she can.

Brooks.
Nov 14th, 2006, 08:17 PM
Serena's not done yet. I still believe in her.

RenaSlam.
Nov 14th, 2006, 08:43 PM
Rena > Enna.

End.

Serena19
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:26 PM
I don't think Serena will let Justine surpass her, seeing Justine at the top at the end of this year could inspire Serena to get back to the top, as her old nemesis is getting handed all the titles.

Besides, Justine has struggled against Maria and Amelie at the key moments this year. I know she thrashed them both at the YEC, but she should concentrate on beating those two on a regualar basis before she tries to surpass the Great One :D

j-fan
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:51 PM
I don't think Serena will let Justine surpass her, seeing Justine at the top at the end of this year could inspire Serena to get back to the top, as her old nemesis is getting handed all the titles.

Besides, Justine has struggled against Maria and Amelie at the key moments this year. I know she thrashed them both at the YEC, but she should concentrate on beating those two on a regualar basis before she tries to surpass the Great One :D

She can do that simultaneously. She does not have to do that sequentially, as you seem to be suggesting.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Nov 15th, 2006, 12:34 AM
Man, this topic blows. It's like a catfight between Serena lovers and Justine supporters :rolleyes:

Both players have not retired yet... who knows what might happen in the future?

Maybe Serena will win more tournies and Slams, and Justine failed to win another Slam again?

Maybe Justine will finally win Wimbledon, while Serena struggles on and never recapture her form again?

There are too many possibilities out there... and until the time has come, only this topic will come into discussion.

And by the way - how do you measure greatness? The number of Slams won? Or weeks at #1? Or the win-loss records? You can't. There's no measuring stick for that.

One thing is for certain - Serena's "greatness" and Justine's "greatness" are totally different from each other. Never the same... and never gonna change.

fufuqifuqishahah
Nov 15th, 2006, 12:49 AM
i thihnk even if justine wins more slams than serena, in my mind, she still won't be as great as serena, unless she shows me a higher level that i haven't seen from her yet.

but like what many other people are saying... no matter what happens... they are incomparable to each other, really. they're two very different people who have and will achieve very different things... even though they compete in the same era of the same sport. to me, it's like comparing federer's greatness to billie jean king's greatness.... imo, hard to do.

Junex
Nov 15th, 2006, 12:52 AM
quantitatively YES

but greatness is never measured by numbers.....
they are great in their own right.

strictennis
Nov 15th, 2006, 01:19 AM
I think when we talk about greatness, it's usually who's more popular.. I mean when you ask common folks who are not hugh tennis fans, I personally feel that people will come to think about a few names such as Hingis, Williams, Graff and Kournikova.

And if Henin was to surpass Williams' greatness, she needs to play more consistently, win major matches, put Sharapova to shame, show to the people in Belgium that she is better than Clijsters.

Moreover, Williams has acheived all that, her H2H record is so better than Henin.

So, Serena has the greatness compared to Henin. Right?

iPatty
Nov 15th, 2006, 01:41 AM
"no no no no no," as serena would say. :p

justine's never really given off that "unbeatable" aura, like serena did in her prime. not to mention, justine plays a lot more tournaments in a year than serena goes, but she still doesn't have as many slams.

goldenlox
Nov 15th, 2006, 01:57 AM
How do people judge Borg, McEnroe and Connors?
They don't talk about h2h. They don't even talk about slam totals.
They argue about personal favorites.
Just like plenty of people think Seles was better than Graf.

It's an opinion argument. Like steak or chicken.

densuprun
Nov 15th, 2006, 02:04 AM
So if Justine wins Wimbledon, is she at the same level as Serena?

No.

darrinbaker00
Nov 15th, 2006, 02:28 AM
Personally, I think we should be more concerned with getting the mortgage
paid off and/or finishing our education than worrying about this kind of crap.

Btw, we all know that Serena put the "great" in "Greatness".

:wavey:
You got that right, Ed. Court, King, Connolly, Evert, Navratilova, Graf.....all overrated. ;)

Junex
Nov 15th, 2006, 02:38 AM
"no no no no no," as serena would say. :p

justine's never really given off that "unbeatable" aura, like serena did in her prime. not to mention, justine plays a lot more tournaments in a year than serena goes, but she still doesn't have as many slams.

Interestingly if we compare Serena & Justine's best years:


2002 Serena:

13 tournamments entered
YE#1
8 titles
3 GS (def Venus)
YEC Finalist
56-5 W/L (Clijsters,Rubin,Schnyder,Henin, Shaugnessy)



2006 Justine:

13 tournaments entered
YE#1
6 titles
1 GS, (def Kuzy)
3 GS Finals
YEC Champion
56-8 with 1 RR lost (Mauresmo-3, Sharapova,Schnyder,Petrova,Shaugnessy,Dementieva)


:angel:

Parsley
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:04 AM
When (and if) Justine wins 8 slams (she doesn't have to win Wimbledon), she'll pass Serena's greatness.

dreamgoddess099
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:05 AM
Interestingly if we compare Serena & Justine's best years:


2002 Serena:

13 tournamments entered
YE#1
8 titles
3 GS (def Venus)
YEC Finalist
56-5 W/L (Clijsters,Rubin,Schnyder,Henin, Shaugnessy)



2006 Justine:

13 tournaments entered
YE#1
6 titles
1 GS, (def Kuzy)
3 GS Finals
YEC Champion
56-8 with 1 RR lost (Mauresmo-3, Sharapova,Schnyder,Petrova,Shaugnessy,Dementieva)


:angel:

So that's proves what? That in Serena's best year she won more titles, won more slams, and had less losses.:lol:

Junex
Nov 15th, 2006, 03:36 AM
So that's proves what? That in Serena's best year she won more titles, won more slams, and had less losses.:lol:

:confused:

iWill
Nov 15th, 2006, 04:41 AM
yeah but it's not Justine fault that Serena either didn't play those Slams or she simply didn't make it to the stage where they could actually play against eachother :shrug:



And Justine would need to win Wimbledon and atleast 1 other Slam to achieve what Serena did. Surpassing her is something else ...

thats true but its also not Serena's fault that Justine wasnt better than her in any of the slams she was in from 02- OZ 05 and since Serena actually beat Justine to win some of her slams maybe only a couple its still a big deal and also Justine had a chance to pass her had she won all her slam finals this year but she didnt and i dont see her having another year like this personally not with all the other players live Vee and Rena and Sharapova and Hingis with so much room to improve and..... her days and RG may be numbered this year if Petrova can get her act together.....

bandabou
Nov 15th, 2006, 07:36 AM
Hmmmm....still consider Juju to be mainly a clay-product. Not to say that she can't be good, great on other surfaces...but her results are clearly clay-dominated...witness the fact that her most dominating major was RG, only one she in fact won..

Serena's results are more balanced: 2 AO, 2 Wimby, 2 opens, 1 RG...so she is a GENUINE contender on three surfaces at least.

Just a shame that Serena doesn't seem to be motivated enough to keep building on that nice legacy. Come back Serena!

Kunal
Nov 15th, 2006, 07:53 AM
still a no

bandabou
Nov 15th, 2006, 04:40 PM
Time will tell..

Vlover
Nov 15th, 2006, 05:34 PM
So that's proves what? That in Serena's best year she won more titles, won more slams, and had less losses.:lol:

:confused:


Hey dreamgoddess that was evil of you to confuse this poor thing with deducing information from stats.:lol: Isn't it interesting that even when the facts are staring them in the face they are willing to go with the fantasy created in their own heads.:tape:

I'm curious to know what his version of those stats mean.:tape:

treufreund
Nov 15th, 2006, 05:39 PM
I have not read this thread and yet I KNOW INTUITIVELY that I hate it. Just another thread designed to renew hate towards Justine and Serena. Both are great champions and both bring a ton to this game that we love. Justine has accomplished so much despite illness and injury and personal losses. Serena has had to overcome many losses and injuries too.

SO GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!! and be thankful that we had them and still do have them!!!

MrSerenaWilliams
Nov 15th, 2006, 06:04 PM
I agree 10000000% :worship:

SJW
Nov 15th, 2006, 06:40 PM
I love threads like this. The stats make me remember what an awesome player Serena is.
I miss her beating the crap out of everybody. :(

MrSerenaWilliams
Nov 15th, 2006, 06:42 PM
it's true...I miss it too...hopefully it'll be back in time for Golden Slam in '08 ;) :cool: lol