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Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:49 AM
I've been very critical of people on this board and elsewhere who shows support or admiration for groups like Hezbollah. Many claim they're humanitarians and anti-war and anti-hate. But I see through many of them and the reason for this is they harbour but hide feelings like those held by the woman who wrote the article I'm posting below. I was given this link from another board and there was a big discussion on this. I'm sure she is not the only one who feels this way about Jews. In fact, you can also find other more hateful articles by her on that same site and she also has her own site. Anyway, here's the article with the hate bolded.

Hezbollah: Model for Manliness — Joanna Francis

As I watch the genocidal war crimes being committed against the Lebanese people, I’m struck by the images that come across my television screen. I see women and children badly burned by the illegal chemical weapons our tax dollars provide to the Israelis for the incineration of their enemies; bridges, homes and roadways bombed into oblivion; hundreds of thousands of internal refugees; and death and misery palpable from halfway around the world.

But I must confess that what strikes me the most profoundly is the sight of young Lebanese men marching proudly, as they trample an Israeli flag underfoot. Hezbollah. Many of them don’t even look old enough to shave, and yet, they are truly men. The rest of the world hems and haws at the carnage the Jews have wrought on the once modern and beautiful country of Lebanon. But the average (so-called Christian) American merely echoes the mantra of his Zionist masters as he has been trained to do all his life. Americans confidently state that the Khazar Jews have a right to “defend their country” and that Hezbollah are terrorists, militants, and now, insurgents. What they fail to mention is that those Khazar Jews have about as much right to Palestine or Lebanon as the Chinese have to France, i.e., none. They are simply Jewish squatters on Arab land. And the Arabs intend to evict them. That is not terror. That is justice. And that is manly.


So, Mr. Brave Christian Weekend-Warrior, call Hezbollah terrorists if you will, but one thing you cannot call them is: cowardly. With few exceptions, they are the only people brave enough to stand up to the Jew and spit back in his face. They are willing to fight to the death for their homeland, their honor, their religion, and their women. Yes, I said “their women.” You see, unlike you, they will not let the Jewish pornographers and abortionists defile their culture and turn their women into whores. You have been brainwashed into believing that Muslim women hate their plight of being protected from sexual predators, getting married young, becoming mothers, being treated with respect and dignity, being taken care of in their old age by their children, and living like innocent, strong, beautiful women. To your surprise, they do not seem to miss the beer-guzzling, Playboy reading, commitment-phobic, narcissistic men-children who turn their women over to the Jewish enemy. Their men are truly manning the frontlines, as you strain your back to bow as low as possible before your Jew masters, in true lackey fashion. They own you, because you have sold yourselves (and us) out to them. You, Mr. Macho, have become their bitch.


You are the unworthy sons of the great Christian men who built Western Civilization. They were not cowards, and they did not fight for the Jew, but for their own religion, for Europe, and for the safety and honor of their women. They kept the evil Khazar monsters locked up in cages where they belong; only to see their descendants unleash those beasts at the time of the Protestant Revolt. How our Christian ancestors must be turning over in their graves. Today, Christian men will only fight against other Christians (World Wars I and II) or against brave, honorable Muslims, at the behest of the Jew. Now, the Christians are the beasts in cages, only allowed out long enough to pimp for their Zionist masters, and buy the latest edition of “Girls Gone Wild.”


Those “girls gone wild” are your sisters and daughters, yet you contribute to their exploitation for your own dirty, secret pleasure. You have abdicated your role as men and defenders of the Faith. You have allowed yourselves to be emasculated by a bunch of ugly, Jewish feminists. You did not fight for our honor. It is truly stunning how quickly you ceded Western Civilization, deciding that if you can’t beat them, you’ll join them. And so you gleefully set about exploiting our vulnerability, using us like unpaid prostitutes, too weak and selfish to accept your responsibility as head of a family. As a Christian, I do not believe in polygamy, but I can’t help but admire the kind of man who can take care of four wives, and all their offspring; while American men put their one wife to work and then expect her to cook, clean, feed their insatiable egos, and then have to compete with their childish, Jew-inspired fantasies in bed at night.


So admit that you are powerless before the Khazar, step aside, and let “your women” do the fighting. I have only my pen with which to fight, but at least I’m not afraid to wield it, full blast, aimed right at my enemy. Criticize me if you will, but I will pull no punches, use euphemisms, or grovel before my enemies. I have lost too much to them. I will not be their bitch. Unlike you, with your sycophantic pen, when you dare even broach the subject at all, regarding who has usurped the great heritage our ancestors created. You make me ashamed to be an American woman. Muslim women need feel no such shame. Their men would die (and are dying) rather than hand their daughters and sisters over to the Jew to be defiled and degraded. Their honor is safe in the hands of their Muslim mujahadeen. That is manly.


And don’t tell me that Jesus Christ was a pacifist and that you are only turning the other cheek. Christ was not the effete, kumbaya, Birkenstock sandal-wearing, proto-hippie that the liberals would have us believe. He wanted us to love one another but He also believed in justice. Render unto Caesar, and all that. He confronted the Pharisees face to face with words that you could only fantasize about using, and wouldn’t dare utter, even though we live in the last country in the West where it’s legal to confront the Pharisees. Yet you cower before them, justifying their incineration of Lebanese babies, while you pay the Jew to murder the babies you create with us. You bow before the Israeli flag, a foreign flag, while the young men of Hezbollah march on top of it. Don’t hide behind Christianity. It is not for wimps and cowards. Let us not forget the image of Christ turning over the tables of the money changers and whipping them out of the temple! That was manly.


So the next time you turn on the Zionist-controlled television news and see images of dead and wounded women and children in Lebanon, just remember: their men are fighting for them against a far superior military force (thanks to us). But they are not cowering in fear. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were to steal victory after all of this is over (if it ever is). Because all they have to do is survive and they have won. The Israelis have to eliminate Hezbollah to win, and that is unlikely. You can’t beat a force that is fighting for their families and for their homeland – in their own homeland. The home team always has the advantage. Truly, a moral victory is already assured for Hezbollah. Regardless of the outcome, they win just for having withstood so much firepower, and still being able to launch their hapless little Katyusha rockets back over the fence. Yes, that is manly. Maybe you American Christian men could learn something from them about fighting for honor, family and homeland. Maybe you could try to emulate Hezbollah. They might teach you a lesson or two in manliness. And if you’re nice, they might even lend you some testosterone.
Source: http://crescentandcross.com/index.php?page=articles&author=joanna_francis&subpage1=model_for_manliness

So forgive me the next time I go off at someone who sympathises with Hezbollah and admires their courage. <cough> :rolleyes: <cough> :won't mention any names:

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:58 AM
Actually THAT WHOLE website is anti-semitic.

"Sluggy"
Nov 13th, 2006, 11:02 AM
wow, they really know where to hit us. Sounds like what id expect a mad pitbull to think like.

CooCooCachoo
Nov 13th, 2006, 12:29 PM
And if you read up on Israeli architecture, you will find that the entire way it is designed is not so peaceful either :shrug: Both parties are at fault and I get frustrated when people try to make the Israeli state look like a holy saint.

"Sluggy"
Nov 13th, 2006, 12:33 PM
And if you read up on Israeli architecture, you will find that the entire way it is designed is not so peaceful either :shrug: Both parties are at fault and I get frustrated when people try to make the Israeli state look like a holy saint.

You're anti-Israel and you know it.:p

Josh
Nov 13th, 2006, 12:42 PM
You call that "cleverly disguised"?

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 12:45 PM
You call that "cleverly disguised"?

Yeah I read it after I wrote it and thought "what the hell was I thinking" but I didn't change it because I'm talking about people who shares her more PC opinions. I'm talking about the "Hezbollah are so courageous" crowd not so much the "Jewish enemy" crowd.

Renaissance
Nov 13th, 2006, 01:42 PM
stupid thread

Arabs and Jews are both semitic

"Sluggy"
Nov 13th, 2006, 01:44 PM
stupid thread

Arabs and Jews are both semitic


What kind of nonsense is that? do you care to elaborate?

Princeza
Nov 13th, 2006, 01:45 PM
endless story

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 01:46 PM
stupid thread

Arabs and Jews are both semitic

Right, let's just sit back and watch genocide take place in Africa then. They're all Africans.

And also this website nor this woman is of Arabic/Muslim origin. Where the hell did you get that from? Just because she's saying "reach out to muslims" that doesn't mean she likes them. Maybe she just hates Jews more.

moby
Nov 13th, 2006, 01:51 PM
So Joanna Francis speaks for all who dare even think that Israel might be partly responsible for the conflict too? I don't take sides in that argument, but I also don't see how the incoherent ramblings of one person is representative of the cogent "anti-Israel" arguments out there.

Issues are rarely pure, and never simple.

Kunal
Nov 13th, 2006, 01:55 PM
that really is not cleverly disguised

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Please let's not make the issue about whether it's CLEVERLY DISGUISED or NOT. Talk about the issue at hand!!! :rolleyes:

Renaissance
Nov 13th, 2006, 02:02 PM
What kind of nonsense is that? do you care to elaborate?
Nonsense

:lol: you are an Ignorant what is nonsense is to tell that arabs are anti-themselves.


I know it since i'm 7:lol: and Sam L knows it perfectly

"Sluggy"
Nov 13th, 2006, 02:07 PM
Nonsense

:lol: Ignorant


I know it since i'm 7:lol: and Sam L knows it perfectly

RU STUPID? Jewish people are antisemitic? Can you backup your nonsensical posts with some information, real arguments?:confused:

Shonami Slam
Nov 13th, 2006, 02:25 PM
Arabs and Jews are both semitic

this, of course - is true.
don't forget that originally, the distinction between the first arab and the first jew is merely by mother. we are from the same father, thus - "brothers"
and both are semetic.

Renaissance
Nov 13th, 2006, 02:25 PM
Muslims (most of arabs) and most of Jews are descendants of Sem

Semitic refers to Sem

Look at this article http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9mites

You understand french no?

Renaissance
Nov 13th, 2006, 02:26 PM
this, of course - is true.
don't forget that originally, the distinction between the first arab and the first jew is merely by mother. we are from the same father, thus - "brothers"
and both are semetic.

:kiss:

"Sluggy"
Nov 13th, 2006, 03:00 PM
Muslims (most of arabs) and most of Jews are descendants of Sem

Semitic refers to Sem

Look at this article http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9mites

You understand french no?

I misplaced my eye glasses today - but you wrote that they were semitic peoples, but the article posted was about antisemitism. The blood line of neither people was in question so the information you provided is of no relevance (at all) to this discussion. Can you read?

Renaissance
Nov 13th, 2006, 03:07 PM
I misplaced my eye glasses today - but you wrote that they were semitic peoples, but the article posted was about antisemitism. The blood line of neither people was in question so the information you provided is of no relevance (at all) to this discussion. Can you read?
Go further in your reflection please,learn to read between the lines ,do you know what is an implied idea ???
you waste my time:rolleyes:

"Sluggy"
Nov 13th, 2006, 03:11 PM
stupid thread

Arabs and Jews are both semitic


just explain this statement if it has ANY RELEVANCE to the discussion.

moby
Nov 13th, 2006, 03:31 PM
just explain this statement if it has ANY RELEVANCE to the discussion.It's quite apparent, isn't it? :tape:
No wonder Borine is :fiery: .

How can the author of that (very biased, and anti-Jew) essay be anti-semitic if she's praising the "manliness" of Muslim Arabs? She's just anti-Jew not anti-all-semites.

Renaissance
Nov 13th, 2006, 04:01 PM
just explain this statement if it has ANY RELEVANCE to the discussion.
You can't be called "anti-semitic" if on the one hand you support muslims and on the other hand you criticize Jews

Dementieva_Dude
Nov 13th, 2006, 04:36 PM
You can't be called "anti-semitic" if on the one hand you support muslims and on the other hand you criticize Jews

Wow, I can't believe you don't understand what anti-semitism is. It refers to discrimination, prejudice or hostility toward Jews. Only Jews. Muslims may also be semitic people, but it IS possible to be "anti-semitic" and be supportive of Muslims.

That being said, I think that article is absolute crap, and I would like to think that it would never be published in a mainstream magazine or newspaper here in Canada. It's the type of worthless written dribble that panders to it's own small audience while ignoring facts. Do I believe that either side in the current Palestinian/Israeli conflict is "right"?. Hell no. Do I think that there is a better way to express your feelings/thoughts without resorting to bigotry, racism and name calling (which was part of the point of Sam's post if I'm not mistaken)? Definitely.

Joana
Nov 13th, 2006, 05:01 PM
You can't be called "anti-semitic" if on the one hand you support muslims and on the other hand you criticize Jews

Of course you can. Anti-semitism carries a very specified connotation, and that is hatred toward Jews. I guess when the term "antisemitism" was coined (in 19th century I believe) Europeans had pretty much no contact with Arabs so only Jews were counted as Semites.

As for the article itself, it's a total anti-semitic garbage at its worst.

-Ph51-
Nov 13th, 2006, 06:11 PM
Of course you can. Anti-semitism carries a very specified connotation, and that is hatred toward Jews. I guess when the term "antisemitism" was coined (in 19th century I believe) Europeans had pretty much no contact with Arabs so only Jews were counted as Semites.

As for the article itself, it's a total anti-semitic garbage at its worst.

:worship:

samsung101
Nov 13th, 2006, 07:10 PM
Israel is the size of a pea surrounded by massive geography that
is entirely against it existing, breathing, thriving. I would certainly
hope they do all they can to protect themselves.

There is a lot of anti-semitism on this board.

It's almost chic in some circles to be against Israel, as in
being against the USA. Ward Churchill to Maxine Waters.


Hamas and Hezbollah and Al Queda cheer on the Democrats.
Ask why?

If your party and candidates bring a smile to Hamas and Hezbollah
and Al Queda, that's not something I'd brag about or be happy about.



Israel deserves the USA and world support. I hope the USA
support continues.


France and much of Europe, Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, China, etc.,
are fully of a lot of anti-Israel policy ideas and sentiment...sadly.



After the last election, Israel is more alone than ever. Despite
the new number of Jewish lawmakers. Look at how the Democratic
National Committee and Congress treated Joe Lieberman. Like dirt.
Why? To push the anti-war candidate over a trusted and devoted
Democratic candidate who dared to put national security, the health
of Israel ahead of the hate Bush crowd.

He won. So while the election - a 1 seat difference in the Senate,
hinged largely on the war, it also hinged a great deal on the culmative
effects of blown up scandals of a few GOP congressmen, and the
angst of the conservative base over the border and fiscal policies......
it also gave us Joe Lieberman - pro-Bush policy support and the
Montana Democratic Senator-elect, who campaigned a lot on a platform
that mirrored Joe Lieberman on Iraq and Israel.

There is still hope our anti-Israel Democratic caucus won't win out
in Congress vote after vote.

I also hope Israel takes out the Iran nukes. Since it is clear the USA
no longer has the political will to do anything that may make Europe
or the UN or the NY Times mad at us.

Renaissance
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:31 PM
Wow, I can't believe you don't understand what anti-semitism is. It refers to discrimination, prejudice or hostility toward Jews. Only Jews. Muslims may also be semitic people, but it IS possible to be "anti-semitic" and be supportive of Muslims.

That being said, I think that article is absolute crap, and I would like to think that it would never be published in a mainstream magazine or newspaper here in Canada. It's the type of worthless written dribble that panders to it's own small audience while ignoring facts. Do I believe that either side in the current Palestinian/Israeli conflict is "right"?. Hell no. Do I think that there is a better way to express your feelings/thoughts without resorting to bigotry, racism and name calling (which was part of the point of Sam's post if I'm not mistaken)? Definitely.

:lol: Anti semitism was employed like a synonym of Jews by some racist thinkers in the 19 th century,it's not pertinent you have to be rigorous in the use of the words because i always believe that the short cuts lead to catastrophe...I hate ignorance and generalization.You can say anti jews in the case of this article but not anti-semitic it's a nonsense.

Renaissance
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:44 PM
Of course you can. Anti-semitism carries a very specified connotation, and that is hatred toward Jews. I guess when the term "antisemitism" was coined (in 19th century I believe) Europeans had pretty much no contact with Arabs so only Jews were counted as Semites.

As for the article itself, it's a total anti-semitic garbage at its worst.

Not really

Algeria was a French colony from 1830
Uk was established in Egypt.


The relation between European and Arabs were particularly strong (Orientalism at the end of the 18th and 19 th (cf Etienne Dinet,Pierre Loti)
You can justify this bad use by ignorance.

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 09:49 PM
:lol: Anti semitism was employed like a synonym of Jews by some racist thinkers in the 19 th century,it's not pertinent you have to be rigorous in the use of the words because i always believe that the short cuts lead to catastrophe...I hate ignorance and generalization.You can say anti jews in the case of this article but not anti-semitic it's a nonsense.

Since when did you become an English teacher? What's the ulterior motive here borine? Come on? You have not once criticized what this woman has said or what this movement is about. Instead you're criticizing my usage of anti-semitism/anti-Jew? :confused:

Tell me, do you agree with Joanna Francis? Why don't we talk about what she has to say about Jews rather than giving us an English lesson? Or are you afraid to go there?

Oh and btw.. I might as well come out. It was Volcana who said he admired the Hezbollah's courage and thought they were brave. And I've said a few others on this board who agreed with him. You too borine? Do you think like this about Jews too? :help:

Martian Willow
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:01 PM
:lol: Anti semitism was employed like a synonym of Jews by some racist thinkers in the 19 th century,it's not pertinent you have to be rigorous in the use of the words because i always believe that the short cuts lead to catastrophe...I hate ignorance and generalization.You can say anti jews in the case of this article but not anti-semitic it's a nonsense.

It doesn't, because everybody knows what anti-semitic means in this context except pointless, pedantic, obfuscating fuckwads who have nothing relevant or worthwhile to contribute like you. Now piss off. :)

drake3781
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:03 PM
So what do you want to accomplish? You may have identified a poster or posters as anti-Semitic or anti-Israel. What do you want to do about it, or have us do about it? It's perfectly within the posters' rights to be that way, just as the racists - black and white - on this board are within their rights to be that way. (You have come to terms with the fact that you cannot and will not ever be able to control what people think, haven't you?) What I do is put them on ignore. Do you want to censor them or ban them? Is there a policy on this board that restricts such opinions? If so, report any post you feel violates this policy. Otherwise, put them on ignore. Making threads like this is just a way to bicker and argue, which is counter-productive. Spend that time and energy doing something positive.

Kart
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:04 PM
I don't see how being anti-semitic is any worse than being anti-islamic.

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:07 PM
So what do you want to accomplish? You may have identified a poster or posters as anti-Semitic or anti-Israel. What do you want to do about it, or have us do about it? It's perfectly within the posters' rights to be that way, just as the racists - black and white - on this board are within their rights to be that way. (You have come to terms with the fact that you cannot and will not ever be able to control what people think, haven't you?) What I do is put them on ignore. Do you want to censor them or ban them? Is there a policy on this board that restricts such opinions? If so, report any post you feel violates this policy. Otherwise, put them on ignore. Making threads like this is just a way to bicker and argue, which is counter-productive. Spend that time and energy doing something positive.

Well this is an ongoing issue in the Middle East. A few months ago there were huge debates on whether Israel should be going into Lebanon to get rid of the Hezbollah. So this is very much a relevant right now issue and it's ongoing. I guess in a way I just wanted to show people what those who thinks "Hezbollah are so brave" are really on about. They are a terrorist group, anyone who admires them has to hate someone.

Martian Willow
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:09 PM
I don't see how being anti-semitic is any worse than being anti-islamic.

Since being Jewish (or even semitic) is an ethnicity and Islam is simply a set of beliefs, there is a fairly large difference between them. Do you think being anti-semitic is no worse than being anti-communism or anti-fascism?

griffin
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Please let's not make the issue about whether it's CLEVERLY DISGUISED or NOT. Talk about the issue at hand!!! :rolleyes:

Which one, then?

Shall we discuss the lame attempt to equate all opposition to/criticism of Israel's policies with the views of an extremist so-called "Christian" bigot?

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Which one, then?

Shall we discuss the lame attempt to equate all opposition to/criticism of Israel's policies with the views of an extremist so-called "Christian" bigot?

Well what do you think griffin? You've seen this "Hezbollah are courageous" people on this board and the movement to glorify the Hezbollah and other terrorist groups. I'm not talk about nor justifying Israel's policies through this.

I'm talking about those who condone extremism against Israel.

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Since being Jewish (or even semitic) is an ethnicity and Islam is simply a set of beliefs, there is a fairly large difference between them. Do you think being anti-semitic is no worse than being anti-communism or anti-fascism?

Thank you. Also, I'm against anti-Islamic and this is the typical response that was received on the board too. Oh there's hate for muslims too so it's ok. What the...? :rolleyes:

Kart
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:29 PM
Since being Jewish (or even semitic) is an ethnicity and Islam is simply a set of beliefs, there is a fairly large difference between them. Do you think being anti-semitic is no worse than being anti-communism or anti-fascism?

I've never really considered Jews as being an ethnicity as much as being a religious group which is why I made the comment.

I'm sure you're more than capable of proving to me that being Jewish is an ethnicity so I won't contest it.

Martian Willow
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:36 PM
Thank you. Also, I'm against anti-Islamic and this is the typical response that was received on the board too. Oh there's hate for muslims too so it's ok. What the...? :rolleyes:

I'm anti-Islamic. (But I'm not anti-muslim.)

griffin
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:41 PM
I'm not talk about nor justifying Israel's policies through this.


No, you're just trying to demonize anyone who criticizes them.

Also NOT clever, nor well disguised.

I certainly don't find Hezbollah admirable in any way. They're violent and have no qualms about targeting civilians. Sadly, neither does Israel.

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:48 PM
I'm anti-Islamic. (But I'm not anti-muslim.)

Same with me, catherine! I just don't see myself as anti-Islamic. How can we be if we accept their believers? There are just some inherent problems within the religion of Islam and we know this. That doesn't mean we hate their followers.

Sam L
Nov 13th, 2006, 10:50 PM
No, you're just trying to demonize anyone who criticizes them.

Also NOT clever, nor well disguised.

I certainly don't find Hezbollah admirable in any way. They're violent and have no qualms about targeting civilians. Sadly, neither does Israel.

If you're forced to defend yourself griffin, you'd target civillians too. Stop trying demonize Israel and make terrorism seem "ok". It's not.

Cassius
Nov 13th, 2006, 11:30 PM
If you're forced to defend yourself griffin, you'd target civillians too
That's the thing.
You're tacitly saying that targeting civilians is OK as long as you're defending yourself.
Yet both Israel AND Hezbollah are killing civies through "defence".

Killing innocent civies is NEVER acceptable. Learn that fact.

RVD
Nov 14th, 2006, 02:20 AM
So what do you want to accomplish? You may have identified a poster or posters as anti-Semitic or anti-Israel. What do you want to do about it, or have us do about it? It's perfectly within the posters' rights to be that way, just as the racists - black and white - on this board are within their rights to be that way. (You have come to terms with the fact that you cannot and will not ever be able to control what people think, haven't you?) What I do is put them on ignore. Do you want to censor them or ban them? Is there a policy on this board that restricts such opinions? If so, report any post you feel violates this policy. Otherwise, put them on ignore. Making threads like this is just a way to bicker and argue, which is counter-productive. Spend that time and energy doing something positive.Drake, I've been sitting here wondering why Sam L would post such a hate-filled article. Is it to prove a point? And if so, what is the point? :scratch: Is it that everyone who doesn't praise all things Israel is an anti-Semite? :confused:
I still don't get the point, but the thread is entertaining. :lol:

RVD
Nov 14th, 2006, 02:26 AM
I've never really considered Jews as being an ethnicity as much as being a religious group which is why I made the comment.

I'm sure you're more than capable of proving to me that being Jewish is an ethnicity so I won't contest it.I as well. :scratch: Are we incorrect ? :confused:
I mean, when Sammy Davis Jr. announced his Jewish(ness), I was as confused as anyone. Now I'm hearing differently?

I'm soooo confused. :lol:

drake3781
Nov 14th, 2006, 02:47 AM
Drake, I've been sitting here wondering why Sam L would post such a hate-filled article. Is it to prove a point? And if so, what is the point? :scratch: Is it that everyone who doesn't praise all things Israel is an anti-Semite? :confused:
I still don't get the point, but the thread is entertaining. :lol:

It seems like the same thing as the thread about the tennis player who called the Brazilian player a monkey, which I have not read except for the top post. WTF cares? How can there be so much to say about these things? People can be ignorant, racist, bigoted, misunderstood, even writing/saying things they do not believe just to get attention or create a spectacle. There is no point in arguing about it. Why give attention to these people, and waste valuable time and energy? These are not situations with a racist/oppressive policy that can be discussed/argued/and eventually changed. They are just the opinions of individuals. Unless you want to address these people directly about their opinions, there is no point in making a big fuss about it to everyone else. We don't have to reduce ourselves to the lowest level by bickering and fighting about it just because someone else starts it. So often someone says "jump" and people jump. Why?

Remember the beginning of the film, "Sex, Lies, and Videotape"?

drake3781
Nov 14th, 2006, 02:50 AM
I as well. :scratch: Are we incorrect ? :confused:
I mean, when Sammy Davis Jr. announced his Jewish(ness), I was as confused as anyone. Now I'm hearing differently?

I'm soooo confused. :lol:


Yes, Jews are an ethnic group. And a religious group. Most but not al ethnic Jews are religious Jews. And vice versa.

If you think about it, just like you can identify physical traits of other ethnic groups, you can identify physical traits that ethnic Jews share. They may be less obvious than skin color, but they do exist.

Dawn Marie
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:00 AM
You call that "cleverly disguised"?


LOL and sad but true. It's pretty brazen..

RVD
Nov 14th, 2006, 03:17 AM
Yes, Jews are an ethnic group. And a religious group. Most but not al ethnic Jews are religious Jews. And vice versa.

If you think about it, just like you can identify physical traits of other ethnic groups, you can identify physical traits that ethnic Jews share. They may be less obvious than skin color, but they do exist.
Ahhh... Okay. But still... :scratch:

I'm not by any means disputing your definition, but this is what I'd always thought:

http://judaism.about.com/od/abcsofjudaism/a/beingjewish.htm
Being Jewish is not a race

Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years.

Being Jewish is not a nationality

Being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. People of many different nationalities are Jewish.

Being Jewish is like being a citizen of a religious movement

Being Jewish means you are a part of a religious movement. However, the great majority of Jews become a part of the religious movement through birth and not due to their beliefs or actions. In this way, being Jewish is like being a citizen of a religious movement.

A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on the babies of Jewish mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism). This Jewish identity stays with them throughout life even if they don't actively practice Judaism.

If a person is not born Jewish, he/she can undergo the process of conversion to become a Jew. A person who was not born Jewish or has not gone through the conversion process is not considered a Jew even if he or she believes in Judaism and observes Jewish practices. The conversion process is very meaningful because it is the only way for a non-Jew to become Jewish.

I'd taken them to be of a purely religious belief. :shrug:
I'm gonna have to slap my Jewish friends for steering my wrong. :lol:

"Sluggy"
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:28 AM
Go further in your reflection please,learn to read between the lines ,do you know what is an implied idea ???
you waste my time:rolleyes:


first day with the new brain? Implied idea? wtf?

"Sluggy"
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:38 AM
Drake, I've been sitting here wondering why Sam L would post such a hate-filled article. Is it to prove a point? And if so, what is the point? :scratch: Is it that everyone who doesn't praise all things Israel is an anti-Semite? :confused:
I still don't get the point, but the thread is entertaining. :lol:

He probably is concerned, as am I, with what he reads in the papers: The growing tide of anti-semitism in Europe, and also in America (if it is the case). Statistics clearly show that yes, antisemitism is on the rise in Europe.

It is very upsetting to read these things. You don't hear the same things about Chinese, German, African Americans and other groups that you hear about Jews and then you hear people like Mel Gibson going off on anti-jew tirades, it's easy to think there is no good place to hide from it? My own friend went of on an anti-semitic tirade recently to my Brother but I've never heard anyone do that towards a Morrocan, a Chinese person or other group. It's just that anti-Jewish sentiment is alive and well and many are not ashamed of it or hiding it. now, if people read and believe what the author wrote it is truly very upsetting. If people were mouthing off about your group, surely you'd be as alarmed?

"Sluggy"
Nov 14th, 2006, 10:43 AM
I as well. :scratch: Are we incorrect ? :confused:
I mean, when Sammy Davis Jr. announced his Jewish(ness), I was as confused as anyone. Now I'm hearing differently?

I'm soooo confused. :lol:

Stop being a wiseass, if you want to understand, you'd understand.

It's called a coalition of the willing. If you don't hate on us, and you don't hate on other people, you can all be honourary Jews. Rabbis, people, the Jewish community is happy enough if you don't hate on us and don't hate on anyone else. If you hate on Chinese people, for instance, you will probably also hate un us too. If you want to practice judaism, you're practicing jews. If you are born to Jewish parents who dont practice judaism, then you are of jewish origin but not a practicing jew. Many jews fit into this category - they have one or 2 jewish parents but dont practice. They never practice but (hopefully) have a soft spot for Jewish things and people. But if you hate jews, then you're anti-semitic. But if you just want to ridicule jews, and ridicule the fact that over 2500 years the definition of what it is to be Jewish is hard to define, then you're probably just an insecure person and it is not worth explaining the definition of Jewish to you.

of Course Sammy Davis Jr is Jewish. He decided he wanted to be a jew and of course, he is probably in most respects a better jew than me and SamL cause he takes his commitment seriously and practices the religion.

RVD
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:02 AM
He probably is concerned, as am I, with what he reads in the papers: The growing tide of anti-semitism in Europe, and also in America (if it is the case). Statistics clearly show that yes, antisemitism is on the rise in Europe.

It is very upsetting to read these things. You don't hear the same things about Chinese, German, African Americans and other groups that you hear about Jews and then you hear people like Mel Gibson going off on anti-jew tirades, it's easy to think there is no good place to hide from it? My own friend went of on an anti-semitic tirade recently to my Brother but I've never heard anyone do that towards a Morrocan, a Chinese person or other group. It's just that anti-Jewish sentiment is alive and well and many are not ashamed of it or hiding it. now, if people read and believe what the author wrote it is truly very upsetting. If people were mouthing off about your group, surely you'd be as alarmed?What in your God's name are you talking about? What growing anti-Semitism in America?! And what "things" don't we hear that are being said?!

It would help if you weren't so obtuse.

RVD
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:06 AM
Stop being a wiseass, if you want to understand, you'd understand.

It's called a coalition of the willing. If you don't hate on us, and you don't hate on other people, you can all be honourary Jews. Rabbis, people, the Jewish community is happy enough if you don't hate on us and don't hate on anyone else. If you hate on Chinese people, for instance, you will probably also hate un us too. If you want to practice judaism, you're practicing jews. If you are born to Jewish parents who dont practice judaism, then you are of jewish origin but not a practicing jew. Many jews fit into this category - they have one or 2 jewish parents but dont practice. They never practice but (hopefully) have a soft spot for Jewish things and people. But if you hate jews, then you're anti-semitic. But if you just want to ridicule jews, and ridicule the fact that over 2500 years the definition of what it is to be Jewish is hard to define, then you're probably just an insecure person and it is not worth explaining the definition of Jewish to you.

of Course Sammy Davis Jr is Jewish. He decided he wanted to be a jew and of course, he is probably in most respects a better jew than me and SamL cause he takes his commitment seriously and practices the religion.So if I wanted to understand why one group of people hated another group of people, I should stop being a wiseass and just understand it? :scratch:

I'm sorry Sluggy. NOW I don't understand your logic. :tape: :lol:

Kart
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:18 AM
Stop being a wiseass, if you want to understand, you'd understand.

It's called a coalition of the willing. If you don't hate on us, and you don't hate on other people, you can all be honourary Jews. Rabbis, people, the Jewish community is happy enough if you don't hate on us and don't hate on anyone else. If you hate on Chinese people, for instance, you will probably also hate un us too. If you want to practice judaism, you're practicing jews. If you are born to Jewish parents who dont practice judaism, then you are of jewish origin but not a practicing jew. Many jews fit into this category - they have one or 2 jewish parents but dont practice. They never practice but (hopefully) have a soft spot for Jewish things and people. But if you hate jews, then you're anti-semitic. But if you just want to ridicule jews, and ridicule the fact that over 2500 years the definition of what it is to be Jewish is hard to define, then you're probably just an insecure person and it is not worth explaining the definition of Jewish to you.

of Course Sammy Davis Jr is Jewish. He decided he wanted to be a jew and of course, he is probably in most respects a better jew than me and SamL cause he takes his commitment seriously and practices the religion.

If you dislike 'practising Jews' for their beliefs but have no problem with people who were born to Jewish parents but don't practice, does that mean that you aren't anti-semitic ?

"Sluggy"
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:53 AM
What in your God's name are you talking about? What growing anti-Semitism in America?! And what "things" don't we hear that are being said?!

It would help if you weren't so obtuse.

Read the post, you even quoted it. I said (if it is the case). I was speaking of anti-semitism in Europe and in a large way, globablly. I have no idea if anti-semitism is on the rise in America.

Sam L
Nov 14th, 2006, 11:59 AM
Read the post, you even quoted it. I said (if it is the case). I was speaking of anti-semitism in Europe and in a large way, globablly. I have no idea if anti-semitism is on the rise in America.

I don't know if it's on the rise but it's there. This website is from US.

Sam L
Nov 14th, 2006, 12:01 PM
If you dislike 'practising Jews' for their beliefs but have no problem with people who were born to Jewish parents but don't practice, does that mean that you aren't anti-semitic ?

You shouldn't dislike anyone for their religion, ethnicity or race or whatever. Why are you asking this question like you're asking for permission?

"Sluggy"
Nov 14th, 2006, 12:02 PM
So if I wanted to understand why one group of people hated another group of people, I should stop being a wiseass and just understand it? :scratch:

I'm sorry Sluggy. NOW I don't understand your logic. :tape: :lol:


You're good. Nah, you're missing it. You were busted on we jews cause pointing out how difficult it is to define what a jew is, you ask 20 jews you might get 20 answers. I laid it out clearly enuf for most people to understand well enough. Chinese people are hard to miss, because of their bodies and eyes and physical structure. Since jews have been on all continents and for so long, our physical appearance varies so much its impossible to tell who is a jew. Chinese peopel may know little about their culture but always know their chinese, jews can hide it, have it hidden from them, etc... so you should get the point, seems simple enough.

So if I wanted to understand why one group of people hated another group of people, I should stop being a wiseass and just understand it? :scratch:

I'm sorry Sluggy. NOW I don't understand your logic. :tape: :lol:

What i meant is not that. Jews have been characterized as having a good sense of humour. Over the course of history, like other people, we had to know how to take a joke. It's ok, IMO to tease us a bit so long as it is not mean. And I think that is what you are doing, you're just poking fun. What i meant is, people who hate on Jews will also hate on other groups. It's to be expected. If i hate chinese people, i'll probably also hate people that act like chinese and look like chinese, but are not chinese. Most people i've met who say they dont like jews, also dont like asians, afro-americans and other people. They might rank one above the other in their heiarchy, but they hate other people to.

"Sluggy"
Nov 14th, 2006, 12:06 PM
If you dislike 'practising Jews' for their beliefs but have no problem with people who were born to Jewish parents but don't practice, does that mean that you aren't anti-semitic ?

This is probably what our ancestors were sometimes told B4 we were allowed safe refuge in your countries - Just Try Not To Act Too Jewish and you'll be alright, cut your hair, eat ham like the rest of us, lose the yiddish accent and expressions, don't talk with you hands, lend money, Drink a lot, give us any money you are able to find - and you'll fit in just fine.

Sam L
Nov 14th, 2006, 12:10 PM
You're good. Nah, you're missing it. You were busted on we jews cause pointing out how difficult it is to define what a jew is, you ask 20 jews you might get 20 answers. I laid it out clearly enuf for most people to understand well enough. Chinese people are hard to miss, because of their bodies and eyes and physical structure. Since jews have been on all continents and for so long, our physical appearance varies so much its impossible to tell who is a jew. Chinese peopel may know little about their culture but always know their chinese, jews can hide it, have it hidden from them, etc... so you should get the point, seems simple enough.



What i meant is not that. Jews have been characterized as having a good sense of humour. Over the course of history, like other people, we had to know how to take a joke. It's ok, IMO to tease us a bit so long as it is not mean. And I think that is what you are doing, you're just poking fun. What i meant is, people who hate on Jews will also hate on other groups. It's to be expected. If i hate chinese people, i'll probably also hate people that act like chinese and look like chinese, but are not chinese. Most people i've met who say they dont like jews, also dont like asians, afro-americans and other people. They might rank one above the other in their heiarchy, but they hate other people to.

Very good point. Which is why I didn't buy a single word of this Joanna Francis... In one of her articles she wrote "to my Muslim sisters"... Give me a ***king break! Basically, the website's message is that Christians and Muslims should unite against a common enemy - Jews.

Also, I will be the first to admit that I've been very vocal against Islamic extremism in the past but that's only for Islamic extremism nothing else.

I believe in the right for Israel to exist and defend her territories and people. I believe that US and Israel form (and should continue to form) a natural alliance.

The American founding fathers found America on Judeo-Christian values. The alliance is much more natural than Christian-Muslim (which is something that's never existed). In today's world, we should bridge the gaps and try and work together but Islamic extremism makes this difficult.

I believe in the Islamic world and their right to exist and practice their religion and their culture BUT I WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.

"Sluggy"
Nov 14th, 2006, 12:20 PM
The American founding fathers found America on Judeo-Christian values. The alliance is much more natural than Christian-Muslim (which is something that's never existed). In today's world, we should bridge the gaps and try and work together but Islamic extremism makes this difficult..

I agree with all that you said. To go a step further, the pilgrims even felt very much like Jews - they felt like they were traveling to the "promised land" the land of milk and honey. Very much like what afro-americans felt and described in their emancipatation and in the building of the Afro-American nation which is the United States. Unfortunately what I BELIEVE HAPPENED is that with all the problems that came about in the 60's, the drugs the problems and anger, the existing co-existence of Jews and other groups who were tenants of jews' land and other stuff, our close good feelings between Jews and other groups kind kinda screwed up. But even if you can prove that it was the bad behaviour of SOME Jews that justify bad feelings towards the entire group, our ideology (based on Torah) is not faulty. Sure we have some bad eggs, and some racist jews, but what differentiates us from radical islam is that Jews don't write stuff and believe stuff like the article you posted. Individuals might believe hateful things towards groups, but we know better and we dont go publishing that hate - we live that to the KKK, to the skinheads, islamo facists, etc.