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View Full Version : If Justine or Maria wins the YEC, will you change your mind on "Player of the Year"?


ZeroSOFInfinity
Oct 23rd, 2006, 04:50 PM
Will you still think Amelie is the Player of the Year, or change your mind? :wavey:

Jay Leno
Oct 23rd, 2006, 04:56 PM
playing all 4 the slam finals is already enough for winning that title , even if maria wins the masters , it won't change my mind

mike/topgun
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:04 PM
Well, Justine is the player of the year without a doubt.
If Masha wins YEC she'll be 2nd on my list ex aequo with Momo;)

griffin
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:07 PM
If Justine won the YEC, I think I would give her the nod for Player of the Year.

Natalicious
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:08 PM
for me amèlie is still the player of the year

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:08 PM
Anyone that makes it to all four finals of the majors, winning the FO, and the YEC, with the best winning percentage in the WTA, best winning percentage in the Grand Slam tournaments deserves Player of The Year.

RenaSlam.
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:27 PM
No.

2 Slams > 1 GS + YEC + 3 Tier 1s

AND

2 Slams > 1 GS + YEC + 3 GS Finals

Slams are what matter most people.

SJW
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:31 PM
Since when is the YEC weighted more than a slam?
Maria isn't in the running, either.
JHH would be close but not close enough IMO.

franny
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:41 PM
Slams matter most, but one has to take into consideration a player's acheivements outside the slams. I think it's a pathetic argument to say that a player who wins 2 slams are better than a player who wins 1, when the player with two slams has done marginally worse than the players with 1. I'm sorry, but if you reach 4 slam finals, and win the YEC, and you have a slam, then you have a pretty damn good case for the number 1 ranking. Bottomline, winning a slam means that you were the best for two weeks. The number 1 ranking reflects who is the best within the last 52 weeks, and if you only look at slams, then the rankings will merely reflect 8 weeks of the 52 weeks. One has to take into consideration, and strongly, a player's acheivements outside slams. That's why there are tiers. Of course slams matter most, but not so much more as to say that a two slam winners with no other significant acheivement is so much better than a one slam winner with many other significant acheivements.

franny
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:42 PM
And if slams are all that matter, than is Sanchez Vicario a better player and ranked highter in the list of all time greats than Davenport?

RenaSlam.
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:51 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship:

mike/topgun
Oct 23rd, 2006, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by franny
And if slams are all that matter, than is Sanchez Vicario a better player and ranked highter in the list of all time greats than Davenport?
good question;)

Justine won RG, was the finalist in the 3 other GS, so if she wins YEC, then she'll be the ultimate n1 in the rankings.

Maria has done a lot in GS and outside the GS, so if she wins YEC then she'll be tied with Momo on the second place.

Wayn77
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:00 PM
You have to take into consideration the achievements in all the tournaments throughout the year and not just the slams. I would think Justine, Amelie and Maria are all pretty close in that respect. I would settle for the winner of YEC (out of the top 3, and hopefully all fully fit) to be player of the year.

RenaSlam.
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:01 PM
I think ultimately it is between Momo and Justine. Mauresmo with two GS, Justine with 1 GS + 3 Finals.

Valou
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:03 PM
It depends of their performance in this Tournament. We'll know it very soon ! :drool:

Helen Lawson
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:03 PM
I don't hold the YEC in real high regard, so while it would make Justine a lot closer to Amelie, I'd still go with Amelie. Even with a win at YEC, I don't think Big Masha comes close to Amelie.

MistyGrey
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:06 PM
Its like 1994, ASV had 2 majors, Steffi had 1.. both didnt win the YEC, but Steffi ended the year at number1 and won the player of the year award. ASV won the ITF World Champion.
For me, right now Amelie is the POTY, but If Justine manages to finish the year at number 1, she'll get my vote. Maria even if she wins the YEC or finishes #! doesnt get my vote.

LeRoy.
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:07 PM
Amelie is my player of the year :worship: regardless of who wins the YEC and how many bagels Momo recieve's in her matches :p

Slumpsova
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:07 PM
it would be very ugly if Justine doesn't win this award.

MrSerenaWilliams
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:08 PM
Justine had an INCREDIBLE year. I wouldn't peg Maria as my P.O.Y. because she didn't do as well in the 2nd quarter of the season. Although, she only won the best of the best titles this year, she really floundered for me in the clay season, and a player of the year, as to be the most consistent throughout the year. Yeah, she can win on the fast surfaces (although she did lose her Birmingham crown, and lost in the Wimbledon semis- nothing to frown on though), when she does well on clay, that in my mind will solidify her as a P.O.Y. candidate.

Justine making 4 GS finals, and taking her team to the FC final makes her the P.O.Y. to me.

griffin
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:08 PM
I don't think Big Masha comes close to Amelie.

Not if Geraldine or Yuri have anything to say about it ;)

(sorry, couldn't resist)

The Daviator
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:10 PM
Justine is already my player of the year :)

anlavalle
Oct 23rd, 2006, 06:55 PM
Amelie is my player of the year :worship: regardless of who wins the YEC and how many bagels Momo recieve's in her matches :p

:lol: :lol: :lol: well said, totally agree

Helen Lawson
Oct 23rd, 2006, 07:04 PM
Not if Geraldine or Yuri have anything to say about it ;)

(sorry, couldn't resist)

You got me! :worship: :worship:

Aaron68
Oct 23rd, 2006, 07:35 PM
I think if Maria wins the YEC, she is the Player of the Year.

Here's why: I don't put as much stock in reaching the F of the Slams as most of you do. In the three Slams Justine lost, she lost one match, just like everyone else who didn't win. Yes, she lost in the Final, but she LOST.

To me, the question is not "What matches did this player lose?" but "What tournaments did the player WIN?"

Justine won 1 Slam. Masha won 1 Slam. AFAIC, they did the same in the Slams, insofar as Player of the Year is concerned. They each WON 1, and they each LOST 3.

Maria won 3 Tier I tournaments, while Justine won none. To me, that means that Masha had the better year.

Is it *interesting* that JHH reached the finals of all four Slams? Sure, in a "ten years from now trivia question" sort of way. But does it actually *mean* much? I don't think so. It's just the sort of odd factoid that abounds in sports.

Masha is on a 12 match winning streak right now. If she wins Linz, she will be 56-8 entering the YEC. Justine, right now, is 56-7. That means, if Masha wins Linz, they will have:

Nearly the same Win%.
One Slam each.
Masha will have 3 Tier I's to Justine's 0.
Maria is leading the Money List, as well.

I say, whoever wins the YEC is the Player of the Year (assuming that either Justine or Masha wins).

Sucks to be Amelie. But outside the Slams, she simply didn't do much, winning two Tier II tournaments. But twenty years from now, no one will care who won Player of the Year. But every tennis fan will know that Amelie won the AO and Wimbledon. And that is really what matters as far as a legacy is concerned.

And it is pretty damned cool that at this point in the year, a decent argument can be made for three different players! Compare with the ATP, where, well ... come on. Hell, I can tell you who will be the ATP PotY NEXT year. :)

iPatty
Oct 23rd, 2006, 07:41 PM
Nope.

Slams > YEC.

Kart
Oct 23rd, 2006, 07:42 PM
No.

Before the start of this year, Justine and Maria were already slam winners threatening for every major title.

Amelie hadn't reached a slam final for seven years.

She's now reached and won two slams.

In relative terms, her year has been way above expectation which is why she'd still be my pick for player of the year.

On paper I see the arguments for Justine having a better year but I think most people would agree she's come up short in slam finals compared to what she's produced consistently in the past.

Piotr'ek
Oct 23rd, 2006, 07:43 PM
Amelie never had been my player of the year.

Helen Lawson
Oct 23rd, 2006, 07:47 PM
Do you mean who I think is the best player this year, or who will officially be POY? Very different. They're dying to give it to Big Masha because she's the most marketable of the three and "a fantasy, the ultimate girl."

There's no love lost between Justine and the WTA. So, barring a Big Masha victory at the YEC, Amelie is the POY, is my prediction.

Lenafan
Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:03 PM
Slams are the thing to me. Amelie won 2. She's my player of the year. First one to win 2 slams in a year since 2003 I believe???. Good enough for me. Tier 1's are overrated. Other than Sharapova and Kuznetsova, the other 5 winners of Tier 1's hardly did anything at the Slams. Sometimes I get the feeling that YEC means more to us fans than the players.

Lenafan
Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:06 PM
. But twenty years from now, no one will care who won Player of the Year. But every tennis fan will know that Amelie won the AO and Wimbledon. And that is really what matters as far as a legacy is concerned.



Exactly.

Aaron68
Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:12 PM
Slams are the thing to me. Amelie won 2. She's my player of the year. First one to win 2 slams in a year since 2003 I believe???. Good enough for me. Tier 1's are overrated. Other than Sharapova and Kuznetsova, the other 5 winners of Tier 1's hardly did anything at the Slams. Sometimes I get the feeling that YEC means more to us fans than the players.

I don't understand this thinking.

Let's, for the sake of argument, say that Maria wins at Linz, and wins the YEC.


Highest Win% during 2006.
Most Tier I's won during 2006.
Most Titles won during 2006.
Most Money won during 2006.
US Open Champion.
Year End Champion.
Year End #1 Ranked player on the WTA.


And you are saying that all that is irrelevant since Amelie won two Slams, and Maria won one?

I believe in the importance of Slams as much as the next guy. But I think it can get out of hand, after a while.

Now, this is all irrelevant if she doesn't win Linz and the YEC. But it seems to me that if someone has a Slam title, and is ahead in every other meaningful category during the year, she is the Player of the Year.

Ben.
Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:22 PM
justine in my mind should get player of the year. she's reached all 4 slam finals this year & has won RG plus she has the best Win-Loss Record with 56 wins to 7 losses & the most titles alongside petrova with 5. even if amelie did win 2 slams to justine's 1, justine's records have been more impressive than amelie's. 2 me even if u won 2 slams doesn't mean your gonna get player of the year. consistency counts big.

Vacant
Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:24 PM
It may possibly sway me towards Justine if she wins it.

But even if Maria wins, 1 GS + YEC is not better than two GS.

Lenafan
Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:32 PM
Slams are the thing to me. Tier 1's are overrated since the only one of the top players, Sharapova wins them. Henin, Mauresmo, and Clijsters haven't won in any and the other Tier 1's on the list leave a lot to be desired and the only 1 of those top players Maria faced in a Tier 1 was Clijsters. There were Tier 2's tougher than Tier 1's. Maria is playing the best right now, but she is also flavor of the day. Now people are assuming Linz and YEC. Now all the clowNs are out for Sharapova. Didn't see these same clown pre US Open. I predicted Maria the whole summer to win the Open in those endless threads (only prediction I think I have gotten right this year). Maria was possessed in the Open kind of like Kenny Rogers in baseball without the pine tar of course. :lol: I doubt the YEC means even a fraction to what winning a 2nd slam and shutting the doubters up did. Just like for Mauresmo. I think winning 2 Slams when you have never won one brings some sort of complancency. Plus to the majority of players, Wimbledon is the most prestigious and Amelie won that one too. Another thing is in regards to slams.

Head to head between Sharapova, Amelie, Henin in Slams when everything is on the line

Mauresmo 3-1
Sharapova 2-2
Henin 1-3

That's my order of rankings for end of year. Now the fact that there is even a debate about this tells you that there really isn't much separating these 3 in this year, but if I had to vote for someone among those 3, I would take the one who won the most amount of Slams any day of the week, not the one who lost the most Slam finals or did well in Tier 1's. I do know if I was a player I could give 2 shits to being player of year and would take 2 Slams especially if one was Wimbledon over some mythical player of the year crap.

Mileen
Oct 23rd, 2006, 10:29 PM
Anyone that makes it to all four finals of the majors, winning the FO, and the YEC, with the best winning percentage in the WTA, best winning percentage in the Grand Slam tournaments deserves Player of The Year.

:worship:

Slumpsova
Oct 24th, 2006, 07:37 AM
Sometimes I get the feeling that YEC means more to us fans than the players.
it does. it seems the players don't care about playing YEC anymore :o
they all want to have a rest after US Open. i personally don't care YEC either. the good thing about this event is we will see some good matches, the winner doesn't matter at all.

sugimomo
Oct 24th, 2006, 07:44 AM
No.

2 Slams > 1 GS + YEC + 3 Tier 1s

AND

2 Slams > 1 GS + YEC + 3 GS Finals

Slams are what matter most people.

I agree 100%, amelie deserves it more than juju and maria, who some people seem to forget the stunts juju has pulled this year, and maria screaming on the court trying to intimidate other players is hardly deserving of the title "player of the year".

Orion
Oct 24th, 2006, 07:44 AM
If Justine wins, she'll have a case. If not, Amelie. Maria isn't really a contender.

Justine Fan
Oct 24th, 2006, 08:51 AM
Justine is already my player of the year :)
:kiss: :kiss: :hug: :hug: :inlove:

die_wahrheit
Oct 24th, 2006, 09:40 AM
if she wins it it would be her second title.
The greats need three titles at this event as history shows.
It's a shame that players like Williams don't even qualify.

chris whiteside
Oct 24th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Them's the breaks in tennis but the year has ended unsatisfactorily with Mauresmo and Henin both not fully fit at USO and both coming off injuries going into YEC.

If Sharapova does pull off the year-end #1 slot it will be against this background.

Given the current physical state of both Amelie and Justine I can't see the YEC being anything other than a one horse race.

Ben.
Oct 24th, 2006, 10:09 AM
even if amelie & justine will come in2 the YEC from injuries both of them will not make easy 4 maria let me assure u (that's if maria draws 1 of them in her group). but yes it will affect both of them in some aspects i suppose, but they both wanna play the YEC no matter what or die trying.

DragonFlame
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:01 AM
it's between justine and amelie. All will depend on the YEC.
Maria is out of the contest in my list, if she does become player of the year i'll just find it another 1 of WTA's screwups/marketingwinnings :rolleyes:

Stavie
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:03 AM
For me Justine is the player of the year.
Whoever wins I'm not changing my mind

Ben.
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:06 AM
it's between justine and amelie. All will depend on the YEC.
Maria is out of the contest in my list, if she does become player of the year i'll just find it another 1 of WTA's screwups/marketingwinnings :rolleyes:

i agree amelie's not out the contest but her chances r probably below 25%. justine's in the driver seat but maria's still has a great chance as well 2. so all 3 r still in contention

this is how i rate their chances of year-end no.1 glory in these positions:
1. Justine
2. Maria
3. Amelie :help: needs 2 count on a miracle mediocre 4th place result at the YEC from justine or a miracle withdrawl. so amelie needs a miracle badly!

justine&coria
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:13 AM
No.

2 Slams > 1 GS + YEC + 3 Tier 1s

AND

2 Slams > 1 GS + YEC + 3 GS Finals

Slams are what matter most people.
Who do you think you are to decide what's true or not?

Anyway, if Amelie wins the YEC, she'll be the player of the year to me, no matter what her ranking will be.
Otherwise, I'd pick Justine as player of the year.

Apoorv
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:33 AM
i think they are standing like this presently. this is according to me:

1. Justine: This year she underperformed in finals but made it to all of them and except for miami, wherever she entered she was a contender for title. also her image is still stronger than amelie. i will bet my money more on justine than amelie to say who will win this event in case both are fit.

2. Amelie: 2 slams is a very good achievement but after february except for wimbledon she underperformed for a player of her calibre. had she won a few more titles it would have been her for P.O.Y. her peformance since wimbledon has not been impressive. if she had done better than this i would have kept her ahead of justine. she has to win YEC to put an end to this discussion and get ahead of justine.

3. very consistant performer and won 3 tier ones and usopen. if she wins YEC she will move ahead of Amelie but still justine will lead her because of consistancy throughout the season. clay season puts her away from winning YEC.

Apoorv
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:35 AM
Anyway, if Amelie wins the YEC, she'll be the player of the year to me, no matter what her ranking will be.
Otherwise, I'd pick Justine as player of the year.


Exactly what i think :)

Ben.
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:50 AM
if amelie wins the YEC then maybe i might reconsider amelie being player of the year instead of justine, but i doubt it. depends on how amelie wins her matches at the YEC.

faste5683
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:50 AM
I agree 100%, amelie deserves it more than juju and maria, who some people seem to forget the stunts juju has pulled this year

What stunts?

My vote would be for Justine. No logic or reasoning, just blind, narrow-sighted, slobbering fan devotion.

:wavey:

Dasha_
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:53 AM
Who ever wins YEC, for me the player of the year title is between Amelie and Justine.

Ben.
Oct 24th, 2006, 11:59 AM
I really do not no why people take the slam wins & the YEC win as the only way of determing player of the year for 2006. i'm not saying that the slam win & YEC win aren't important but u have 2 look at the ALL the tourneys especially tier I's & all the results that the players have accumulated throughout the WHOLE season.

but every1's entitled 2 their own opinion.

fufuqifuqishahah
Oct 24th, 2006, 12:04 PM
in the SHORT RUN, if justine/maria win YEC, i think most of us are going to say it was either justine's or maria's "year"...

but when we look back on it 20 years from now, we are all going to remember it as amelie's year, not justine or maria's.

Steffica Greles
Oct 24th, 2006, 12:06 PM
Personally, right now, I'd already say Sharapova is player of the year. Mauresmo has a better grandslam record but she's failed to make an impression in many tour events since February.

Of course, if Mauresmo or Henin won the YEC, that would change my mind.

Dasha_
Oct 24th, 2006, 12:08 PM
Amelie = Australian Open + Wimbledon
Justine = French Open (defended title) + 3 more GS finals

It is very close - Amelie's and Justine's year is the only right way to put it, IMO

xan
Oct 24th, 2006, 12:12 PM
Maria has had by far the best second half of the year so far.

Veenut
Oct 24th, 2006, 05:15 PM
[QUOTE]I really do not no why people take the slam wins & the YEC win as the only way of determing player of the year

It's not the only way but it's the starting point. The majors are the ultimate titles in tennis and rightly so they are weighted more than the other titles. Players spend their whole career trying to win as many as possible. Its where you find all the top players if healthy playing at the same tournament and you can't say the same for the others.

For me, anyone who wins 2 or more majors for the year gets the nod. If there is a tie in # of majors I'll go with the other stuff therefore Momo still gets my vote with Justine second. Winning YEC to me is irrelevant. It's like winning any other teir 1 tournie with a big pay check. The support it gets in an indication of its importance.