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View Full Version : Remember when Justine called Zvonareva the most talented Russian?


pigam
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:04 PM
i don't know exactly when it was, but it must have been Wimbledon, 3 or 4 years ago.
Of course, there wasn't really anything said about Sharapova in "those days".

It strange how things turn out. Zvonareva isn't a bad player, and in my (and Justine's?) opinion she isn't ranked where she should be.

Why isn't she ranked higher? When I see her play (recently) i still see so much potential!! She is proving it doubles lately ;).
Her serve is good, she has a sound technique and good footwork, right?
Is it all mental then? any thoughts? Who is coaching her btw??

Come on Vera, proove Justine right :p ;)

Sharakim
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:08 PM
i don't know exactly when it was, but it must have been Wimbledon, 3 or 4 years ago.
Of course, there wasn't really anything said about Sharapova in "those days".

It strange how things turn out. Zvonareva isn't a bad player, but to my (and Justine's?) feelings she isn't ranked where she should be.

Why isn't she ranked higher? When I see her play (recently) i still see so much potential. She is prooving it doubles lately ;). Her serve is good, she has a sound technique and good footwork, right? is it all mental then? any thoughts? Who is coaching her btw??

Come on Vera, proove Justine right :p ;)Vera has the game but not the mental strength to win on the big occasions. That is why she isn't ranked higher, she folds too easily.

jacobruiz
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:11 PM
When Vera is playing her best and mentally focusing on winning, she can beat almost anyone. And yes, I think that her mentality is her only big problem.

pigam
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:14 PM
But does anyone know: is she working with some kind of mental coach or something?
Seems like so little is known about her!
I mean, even Justine and Serean had some mental issues in the past. You can (at least try to) fix mental issues!

LH2HBH
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:19 PM
She is not ranked higher because she is not winning. It's all mental with Vera, I'm afraid.

Viktymise
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:20 PM
It was after she beat Vee at RG 03 lots of ppl like JHH, McEnroe and even Tracy Austin were saying Zvonereva is going to be the best Russian, but pretty much all of them like Myskina, Dementieva, Kuznetsova, Sharapova and Petrova have all completley passed her because of her bad temper and poor concentration in matches, i think they jumped on the bandwagon alot because she had just beaten Vee at RG in a tight 3 setter when Vee was pretty much the 2nd best player in the world :shrug:

vogus
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:34 PM
i don't know exactly when it was, but it must have been Wimbledon, 3 or 4 years ago.
Of course, there wasn't really anything said about Sharapova in "those days".




that's not true, by mid-2003 there was already major Sharapova hype going around.

Vera hasn't really developed any offensive weapons. Neither of her groundstroke sides are a big threat.

Wannabeknowitall
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:43 PM
Zvonareva out of the Russians, still has the best all-court and all-surface game.
She's the only Russian player to have won on grass, clay, indoors, and hard courts other than Myskina and she's willing to come to net.

I still believe she's the most talented Russian.
I think Anna Chakvetadze is catching up very fast though.

Ben.
Oct 20th, 2006, 11:52 PM
She is a talented russian, but personally i wouldn't call her the most talented in my books though (no offence). she has a great game with good solid groundstrokes & great footwork but it's just been the mental aspect of her game that has been letting her down.

she displayed promise between 2003-2004 & then she went out of form probably due 2 handling the possible expectations of being in the top 10 for long periods, winning over top players & winning lots of titles. but the injuries played a big part in her downfall as well 2. she's had an up & down year in 2006 but much better than last year. she can break back in the top 10 & stay there for long periods if she improves little kinks in her game & overcomes the mental side of things.

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 21st, 2006, 12:26 AM
Zvonareva out of the Russians, still has the best all-court and all-surface game.
She's the only Russian player to have won on grass, clay, indoors, and hard courts other than Myskina and she's willing to come to net.

I still believe she's the most talented Russian.
I think Anna Chakvetadze is catching up very fast though.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tennis is largely a mental sport. Without a strong mentality, it doesn't matter how "talented" you think they are or how well they play because they will lose.

What seperates the top players from the other several hundred is their ability to stay confident, focused and know they will win. Its called mental toughness. Vera will likely always be a second-tier player in the WTA because she doesn't have the mental toughness of a Svetlana or Maria to break through in the Grand Slam tournaments.

That's why I laugh at statements like yours because its so far beyond the rhelm of reality. Oh, it was a nice touch to include Myskina. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wannabeknowitall
Oct 21st, 2006, 12:42 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tennis is largely a mental sport. Without a strong mentality, it doesn't matter how "talented" you think they are or how well they play because they will lose.

What seperates the top players from the other several hundred is their ability to stay confident, focused and know they will win. Its called mental toughness. Vera will likely always be a second-tier player in the WTA because she doesn't have the mental toughness of a Svetlana or Maria to break through in the Grand Slam tournaments.

That's why I laugh at statements like yours because its so far beyond the rhelm of reality. Oh, it was a nice touch to include Myskina. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll just tell you what you just wrote was the biggest load of bullshit ever.

Players develop at different times and the same thing would have been said about Mauresmo 4 years ago, maybe even last year before the YEC.
You would have been the person saying, oh Mauresmo is talented but she just doesn't have the strong mentality and her winning a slam would have been beyond the "realm of reality".

There were people there who thought otherwise and those fans of Mauresmo are relishing in her great year.

The same could happen to Vera. It's not out of the realm of reality.
She has the game, she continues to work on all parts of herself when it comes to tennis, and she has time.
How about giving her that time before putting her in WTA purgatory, you imprudent &%$@. :wavey:

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 21st, 2006, 01:17 AM
I'll just tell you what you just wrote was the biggest load of bullshit ever.

Players develop at different times and the same thing would have been said about Mauresmo 4 years ago, maybe even last year before the YEC.
You would have been the person saying, oh Mauresmo is talented but she just doesn't have the strong mentality and her winning a slam would have been beyond the "realm of reality".

There were people there who thought otherwise and those fans of Mauresmo are relishing in her great year.

The same could happen to Vera. It's not out of the realm of reality.
She has the game, she continues to work on all parts of herself when it comes to tennis, and she has time.
How about giving her that time before putting her in WTA purgatory, you imprudent &%$@. :wavey:

Reality:

In 2006, Vera lost in the first round of the Australian Open (hardcourt), French Open (clay), Wimbledon (grass) and made it to the third round of the US Open (hardcourt).

And you call her the most talented Russian? :rolleyes:

You obviously have never played the sport of tennis on any competitive level because you would better understand how important the mental aspect of tennis is on a professional level. Every teaching professional, ex-pro and current pro understands how confidence and mental toughness translates on court. You obviously do not.

Roscoe Tanner had the biggest serve of his generation but was never a real threat to win GS titles.

Hana Mandlikova was touted as highly "talented" but never put a dent in the careers of Evert-Navratilova.

When you are mentally tough, you don't lose in the first round of three Grand Slam tournaments in a row. Talented individuals don't do that. And at 22, if you haven't already begun to chip away at those personal demons and start beating the "big" girls consistently, its not gonna happen.

Wannabeknowitall
Oct 21st, 2006, 01:37 AM
Reality:

In 2006, Vera lost in the first round of the Australian Open (hardcourt), French Open (clay), Wimbledon (grass) and made it to the third round of the US Open (hardcourt).

And you call her the most talented Russian? :rolleyes:

You obviously have never played the sport of tennis on any competitive level because you would better understand how important the mental aspect of tennis is on a professional level. Every teaching professional, ex-pro and current pro understands how confidence and mental toughness translates on court. You obviously do not.

Roscoe Tanner had the biggest serve of his generation but was never a real threat to win GS titles.

Hana Mandlikova was touted as highly "talented" but never put a dent in the careers of Evert-Navratilova.

When you are mentally tough, you don't lose in the first round of three Grand Slam tournaments in a row. Talented individuals don't do that. And at 22, if you haven't already begun to chip away at those personal demons and start beating the "big" girls consistently, its not gonna happen.

Reality:
She played Martina Hingis, Dinara Safina, and Kim Clijsters in her first round defeats at the slams this year, all top ten players at this moment.

If any top ten player had to play those three in the first round, they would lose at least two of those matches.

Where was Mauresmo at 22?
I will tell you.
She was coming back into the top 10 after leaving for over a year.

So is it ok for Vera to possibly turn 23 before coming in here with the know it all doom and gloom bullshit. Seriously.

You act like it can't happen when the right there Mauresmo is in your face as proof.

vogus
Oct 21st, 2006, 02:54 AM
I'll just tell you what you just wrote was the biggest load of bullshit ever.




no, the biggest load of bullshit ever was when you said that all a player has to do to beat Kim Clisters is to start rushing the net on every point. :tape: :help: :lol:

Wannabeknowitall
Oct 21st, 2006, 03:15 AM
no, the biggest load of bullshit ever was when you said that all a player has to do to beat Kim Clisters is to start rushing the net on every point. :tape: :help: :lol:

OMG. You are such a bad fucking liar.
I never ever said that.
Finishing the point off at net every chance you get and rushing the net on every point are two entirely different things.

One denotes a player like Nadia Petrova (a baseliner with a good enough net game) when she's on her game and the other denotes a player who is a pure serve and volleyer which there are none of those on the women's circuit these days, only Lisa Raymond comes close.

Example:
If Lindsay would have actually continued to finish off points at net and not get indecisive in the 2005 Pacific Life, that match would have been different.
She did do it at the 2005 Wimbledon against Kim and guess what she won.

I think even a dumbass like you could see the difference between the two matches.
So STFU. :wavey:

partbrit
Oct 21st, 2006, 03:17 AM
Actually, it was Petrova who was considered the biggest break-through possibility of the Russians before any of them broke through. I thought it was going to be Petrova, too. She did it, but much later than anyone expected.

And yes, Zvonareva is very talented, but her head has kept her back. I love to watch her play--great double-handed backhand.

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Oct 21st, 2006, 06:31 AM
her problem is mental

So Disrespectful
Oct 21st, 2006, 06:49 AM
Look where she has came from? After a horrible 2005 and early 2006, Vera has made it from outside of the top 70 (?) and back to number 26. That is not a bad season. Now that she's made it back to where she is, she can focus on next year.

I will bet anything that she'll crack the top 15 next year again.

MrSerenaWilliams
Oct 21st, 2006, 07:41 AM
she should be ready to make a good run next season

tennisrox
Oct 21st, 2006, 07:42 AM
When you are mentally tough, you don't lose in the first round of three Grand Slam tournaments in a row. Talented individuals don't do that. And at 22, if you haven't already begun to chip away at those personal demons and start beating the "big" girls consistently, its not gonna happen.

Why talk of Mauresmo, the undisputed King of the Court, a certain Roger Federer was himself a well-known headcase. Federer lost in the first round in his first three outings at wimbledon. You could have dimissed him as a mug on grass at the time. The same man now owns the surface. He took an age to win his first match on clay. I wouldn't call him a mug on clay now.
Talent and mental toughness are two different aspects of a player. Not having mental toughness can render your talent useless because you won't be able to get the best out of it when it counts, but it doesn't make you talentless.
Momo took til 25 to banish her personal demons. Now look at her.

WhatTheDeuce
Oct 21st, 2006, 08:22 AM
Bepa :inlove: I think she's got tonssss of talent and definitely has the potential to be ranked higher than she is. Very pretty technique, a good serve, quick on her feet, nice touch, and decent power as well.
UDACHI next year, Bepa! :rocker2:

saki
Oct 21st, 2006, 08:28 AM
I think Vera is starting to be more mentally tough. A couple of times now I've seen her scream or otherwise let out frustration on court and then not be affected by it. Much like Amelie has been doing this year, actually. It is certainly possible to become more mentally tough - Justine did it too - and I hope Vera manages it as it would be interesting to see how she matches up against the other top players when playing up to her potential.

I think calling her the most talented Russian is probably an exaggeration, though. She has a nice game but I think Petrova, Myskina and Sharapova are all more explosive as players.

controlfreak
Oct 21st, 2006, 11:37 AM
Over the past few years she has "gotten it together" for long enough and often enough to win a bunch of Tier III tournaments. I don't think any sane person would say it is "beyond the realm of fantasy" for her to win a Tier II or I in the next year. A Grand Slam right now might be stretching the imagination, but in a couple of years' time? It wouldn't be the first time a player has improved with age. :rolleyes:

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 21st, 2006, 11:46 AM
Reality:
She played Martina Hingis, Dinara Safina, and Kim Clijsters in her first round defeats at the slams this year, all top ten players at this moment.

If any top ten player had to play those three in the first round, they would lose at least two of those matches.

Where was Mauresmo at 22?
I will tell you.
She was coming back into the top 10 after leaving for over a year.

So is it ok for Vera to possibly turn 23 before coming in here with the know it all doom and gloom bullshit. Seriously.

You act like it can't happen when the right there Mauresmo is in your face as proof.

Amelie Mauresmo is an anomoly in the history of tennis. It is very RARE for tennis players her age to rise to the top to win their first Grand Slam tournaments. Jennifer Capriati was another. Both women succeeded doing so in the past five years.

We probably won't see another "Amelie" or "Jennifer" for decades. They were just too good not to win grand slam events. Based on their history of the sport, you can't just insert Vera's name and expect it to happen because it happends so infrequently.

There are many young players who have tons of talent and no brain when it comes to raising their games to top three level. Being overly talented can actually hinder some. Because of their talent, they have many more choices on a tennis court to attack and defend, but choosing the right combination at the right time takes a lot of mental fortitude and decisiveness.

IMPOSSIBLE
Oct 21st, 2006, 11:50 AM
I Love Vera !!

supergrunt
Oct 21st, 2006, 12:00 PM
Well lets compare Vera with the other Russians shall we...

Sharapova- 2 Grand Slams
Myskina-1 Grand Slam
Dementieva-Two-time Grand Slam Finalist
Petrova-Winning of 3 Tier II's and 2 Tier I's
Chakvetaze- Kremlin Cup Champion
Kuznetsova-I Grand Slam
....Vera....

She is a good player and will win many more tournaments, will probaly be in the Top 15 next year , but she isn't the most talented Russian :rolleyes: !

:inlove:
Oct 21st, 2006, 12:01 PM
Zvonareva, Myskina and Dementieva at their best = very hard to beat.

WhatTheDeuce
Oct 21st, 2006, 12:44 PM
Well lets compare Vera with the other Russians shall we...

Sharapova- 2 Grand Slams
Myskina-1 Grand Slam
Dementieva-Two-time Grand Slam Finalist
Petrova-Winning of 3 Tier II's and 2 Tier I's
Chakvetaze- Kremlin Cup Champion
Kuznetsova-I Grand Slam
....Vera....

She is a good player and will win many more tournaments, will probaly be in the Top 15 next year , but she isn't the most talented Russian :rolleyes: !
Talent doesnt always go hand in hand with results. [example: Anna Kournikova. talented as they come but a mental midget]

frenchie
Oct 21st, 2006, 01:02 PM
when I first saw Vera play against Schiavone at RG 2002, I was :eek:
she could do so much with the ball....

Then she took a set off Serena

Wannabeknowitall
Oct 21st, 2006, 07:44 PM
Amelie Mauresmo is an anomoly in the history of tennis. It is very RARE for tennis players her age to rise to the top to win their first Grand Slam tournaments. Jennifer Capriati was another. Both women succeeded doing so in the past five years.

We probably won't see another "Amelie" or "Jennifer" for decades. They were just too good not to win grand slam events. Based on their history of the sport, you can't just insert Vera's name and expect it to happen because it happends so infrequently.

There are many young players who have tons of talent and no brain when it comes to raising their games to top three level. Being overly talented can actually hinder some. Because of their talent, they have many more choices on a tennis court to attack and defend, but choosing the right combination at the right time takes a lot of mental fortitude and decisiveness.

Actually it's 3 in 8 years.
Novotna also matured with her mental toughness at an older age.
You say rarity, I say, it comes with the territory this day and age.
The rarity is seeing a teenager just dominate the tour.
You will never see another player like Hingis or Graf win 3 out of 4 slams but you will still see people with the same thinking of you who don't understand that as these players get better, the peak of when these players finally put everything together gets higher.

I'm going to still say Vera because there will always be naysayers like you as there have been for Capriati and Mauresmo who could never fathom them doing anything important in their careers.

vogus
Oct 21st, 2006, 10:28 PM
Amelie Mauresmo is an anomoly in the history of tennis. It is very RARE for tennis players her age to rise to the top to win their first Grand Slam tournaments. Jennifer Capriati was another. Both women succeeded doing so in the past five years.

We probably won't see another "Amelie" or "Jennifer" for decades. They were just too good not to win grand slam events. Based on their history of the sport, you can't just insert Vera's name and expect it to happen because it happends so infrequently.




i suspect the opposite is going to be true. We're already seeing a switch away from female players becoming champions at a very young age. The age restriction rule is really starting to bite now, and this favors players reaching their peak later on in their careers. Even so, 27 is pretty late but i think players winning their first GS title at 23-24-25 will become a lot more common than it ever was before AER.

Players around Mauresmo's age have had the best of both worlds, because they weren't limited by AER when they were coming up, but now they have received a couple years' worth of protection from emerging teenage talent that otherwise might have challenged them sooner.

To get back on topic, Vera is only 22. A slow-surface GS title (AO or RG) is not out of the question for her if she keeps making progress.

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 21st, 2006, 11:29 PM
i suspect the opposite is going to be true. We're already seeing a switch away from female players becoming champions at a very young age. The age restriction rule is really starting to bite now, and this favors players reaching their peak later on in their careers. Even so, 27 is pretty late but i think players winning their first GS title at 23-24-25 will become a lot more common than it ever was before AER.

Oh, I forgot about Myskina, Kuznetsova and Sharapova. I guess you did too.

vogus
Oct 21st, 2006, 11:36 PM
Oh, I forgot about Myskina, Kuznetsova and Sharapova. I guess you did too.


Myskina - 1st (and only) Slam at age 23.

Kuznetsova - 1st Slam at age 20.

Sharapova - 1st Slam at age 18 (accounting for Yuri and IMG fudging her birthdate by a year).

skanky~skanketta
Oct 22nd, 2006, 12:06 AM
talent is subjective.

and i think that she's one of the most talented players around. when she's really on a few players have seen how well she can play.

the thing is that it really is her head holding her back. i mean, ONE point goes wrong and she totally loses it. she's shown in the past that she can push the big guns (davenport 7-5 in the third, Kim 6-4 in the third) on surfaces they are good at and even beat top players, Venus in three and Capriati 6-0 6-1 (one of the best i've seen her play).

she had a bad loss of form in 2005 and she's slowly regrouping and i truly hope she'll play up to her potential next year.

bellascarlett
Oct 22nd, 2006, 12:16 AM
Myskina - 1st (and only) Slam at age 23.

Kuznetsova - 1st Slam at age 20.

Sharapova - 1st Slam at age 18 (accounting for Yuri and IMG fudging her birthdate by a year).
:lol: :rolls:

fammmmedspin
Oct 22nd, 2006, 03:06 AM
i don't know exactly when it was, but it must have been Wimbledon, 3 or 4 years ago.
Of course, there wasn't really anything said about Sharapova in "those days".

It strange how things turn out. Zvonareva isn't a bad player, and in my (and Justine's?) opinion she isn't ranked where she should be.

Why isn't she ranked higher? When I see her play (recently) i still see so much potential!! She is proving it doubles lately ;).
Her serve is good, she has a sound technique and good footwork, right?
Is it all mental then? any thoughts? Who is coaching her btw??

Come on Vera, proove Justine right :p ;)

Depends what she/you mean by talented/ If you watch the Fed Cup final doubles she won with Myskina or the W 06 Mixed doubles you can't help but see that she has imagination, hands and ball control that make the claim all too credible.

The Russians have a lot of talented players in that sense though - Myskina is the smartest although Elena D has her days and hits some nice touch shots sometimes too. As some one posted, Anna C is beginning to look pretty impressive too.

Sharapova's_Boy
Oct 22nd, 2006, 06:41 AM
Sharapova - 1st Slam at age 18 (accounting for Yuri and IMG fudging her birthdate by a year).

:haha:

up!
Oct 22nd, 2006, 07:51 AM
Reality:

In 2006, Vera lost in the first round of the Australian Open (hardcourt), French Open (clay), Wimbledon (grass) and made it to the third round of the US Open (hardcourt).

She lost against Hingis, Safina, Clijsters and Dementieva, not too bad.

goldenlox
Oct 22nd, 2006, 06:09 PM
Vera made the top 10 at 19. And she's certainly good at the net, she won the USO doubles and Wimbledon mixed this year.
But the mental aspect of her game has kept her singles ranking down

I used to think in 2004 that Vera was just as talented as Sveta and Nadia, but she hasn't backed it up on the court

cheo23
Oct 23rd, 2006, 12:57 AM
Queen Justine called VERA the most TALENTED RUSSIAN???? :lol:

WHAT THE HELL WAS QUEEN JUSTINE SMOKIN THAT DAY :rolleyes: :smash: