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frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:20 PM
what a bad fair-play on this DF!!

Even worse than JHH :eek: :eek:
The hand 2 :help: :devil:

MistyGrey
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:21 PM
:confused:

tommystar
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Plus the stupid umpire helped her.

adam_ads_n
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:22 PM
Yeah. Maria fans - you may love her but you can't disagree she made something a sportsman shouldn't do. Signalizing she is not ready to Peer and then saying to the chair umpire she was ready and didn't show anything to Peer is totally unfair...

Melly Flew Us
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:23 PM
:confused:
sharapova held up pe'er's 2nd serve and then lied about it when pe'er's 2nd serve missed.

outrageously unnecessary; its not like the french open qf or something.

watchdogfish
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:24 PM
what a bad fair-play on this DF!!

Even worse than JHH :eek: :eek:
The hand 2 :help: :devil:

What happened? I don't have Eurosport so I'm not watching the match

MistyGrey
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:27 PM
:tape:

!<blocparty>!
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:27 PM
:haha:

Let the drama begin! :armed:

saki
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Did the umpire ask her?

I understood that the umpire wasn't allowed to - that's why the umpire didn't ask Justine.

DevilishAttitude
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Did the umpire ask her?

I understood that the umpire wasn't allowed to - that's why the umpire didn't ask Justine.

He did. And she said she was ready...

I like Maria, but I can't defend her this time. No one can. Peer served a pretty bad DF but saw Maria not ready and Maria had her racquet in her left hand and was looking away... :tape:

Peer screamed C'MON after.

Only defence is Peer won the game but a poor move by Maria.

:explode:

:timebomb:

Dinkie
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:32 PM
I am watching the match on Eurosport and it was bad sportmanship from Sharapova.

Sharapova waits very long anyway to get ready for receiving serve, Shahar had to start her service motion again several times in one game because Sharapova keeps jumping up and down. Very annoying.

Bart
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:34 PM
:yawn:

RenaSlam.
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:34 PM
:tape:

Maria= Justine Henin-Hardenne.

Brooks.
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:35 PM
Sharapova = Juju , duh! :tape: :lol: :help:

BUBI
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:36 PM
:yawn:

-Sonic-
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:36 PM
She's a dirty little cheat!

thats (at least) 2 in the top 10 now. Great.

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:38 PM
It was bad , it was obvious she wasn't ready then just waks to the other side, bad sportsmanship and kinda bitchy.

franny
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:39 PM
This is stupid. Sharapova is looking at her racket. If Peer had been able to serve it in, Maria would have either been able to return it or she would have lost the point. Seriously, this thing is stupid.

RenaSlam.
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:41 PM
JHH= Maria Sharapova.

:)

franny
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:43 PM
One can also say that Shahar is a bitch for serving when she knew Maria wasn't ready. If you are in the middle of your service motion, just continue to serve and get the ball in. Don't serve it anyways in hope that your opponent won't have time to react and then complain about it afterwards. I don't buy that whole oh she was distracted mid-serve, because by the time one tosses the ball, one is responsible for everything that happens afterwards. One has the choice to catch the ball. One has the option to continue serving it. In the middle of serve, the point of serving is to maintain concentration and mkae sure your form is right. If you can't do that just because out of the corner of your eye you see your opponent is "not ready" or doing something else, then it does not mean that you cannot finish the serve since you play at the server's tempo.

doujyr
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:43 PM
that's the sort of incident that might haunt her for the rest of ther career. utterly wrong. very very sad.

morningglory
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:44 PM
can't really comment but I think if Maria was in any position other than her usual "bent over" return stance then she is not ready... if this is true I cannot defend her on this one

Russianboy90
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:45 PM
It's not her fault when the chair umpire said ''point for Masha''...
so stupid!!!! I HATE Masha haters!!!!!!!!! Everything what she do must be worse........ that's only shit! I would like to beat every masha hater!!!!!!!! I hate them....

Kipling
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:48 PM
One can also say that Shahar is a bitch for serving when she knew Maria wasn't ready. .

And "stupid" for risking serving one straight into the net.

Slumpsova
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:52 PM
Maria is copying everyone :o
first Serena, then Justine, maybe Kim is next.

bellascarlett
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:54 PM
Only defence is Peer won the game but a poor move by Maria.



Okay good. actually great! Not crucial then.

frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:54 PM
They showed the replay! it was terrible

.david.
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:55 PM
well the umpire said that he is sure that she was ready.. I cant blame her. Peer won the game anyhow so idm

adam_ads_n
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:55 PM
Okay good. actually great! Not crucial then.
And what would you say if it was crucial? "Good move by Maria, way to go"?

bellascarlett
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:56 PM
Maria is copying everyone :o
first Serena, then Justine, maybe Kim is next.
when did she copy serena?

oh please this is funny, if there's any copycat, its nicole. :lol: have you seen her during her matches?

Melly Flew Us
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:56 PM
It's not her fault when the chair umpire said ''point for Masha''...
so stupid!!!! I HATE Masha haters!!!!!!!!! Everything what she do must be worse........ that's only shit! I would like to beat every masha hater!!!!!!!! I hate them....
you know what, you don't have to be a 'masha hater' to take exception to the outright lie. it is the lie that is the problem; everything else is debateable but that is incontrovertible.

all you can do is ignore it and pretend that she didn't lie; unless you can find some way to justify the lie as a 'masha lover'.

No Name Face
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:56 PM
now i remember why i'm not a fan of hers.

daniela86
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:56 PM
If she knew Masha wasn't ready,why did Shahar serve? I'd have waited if I have thought my opponent wasn't ready.

frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:57 PM
It's not her fault when the chair umpire said ''point for Masha''...
so stupid!!!! I HATE Masha haters!!!!!!!!! Everything what she do must be worse........ that's only shit! I would like to beat every masha hater!!!!!!!! I hate them....


yeah!!!
Maria is always the victim :help: :rolleyes:
this thing is she's an awful sportwoman and her behaviour was simply terrible today :o

:inlove:
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:58 PM
Oof. :o I wish I could have seen it, but I didn't, so can't comment. :shrug:

jamatthews
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:58 PM
I'm sure Sharapova does this stuff deliberately. Any time she's starting to win back the fans she does something stupid like this. :help:

Viktymise
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:58 PM
:o but it doesnt suprise me that much :shrug:

bellascarlett
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:59 PM
And what would you say if it was crucial? "Good move by Maria, way to go"?

I didn't watch it. I didn't see it. But going by the amount of protesting here, I figure it's better Shahar won the game.

Pasta-Na
Oct 19th, 2006, 05:59 PM
maria= no class :o

Mrs. Peel
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Oof. :o I wish I could have seen it, but I didn't, so can't comment. :shrug:

apparently that is not stopping Maria's fans :tape:

frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:00 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: at those who try to defend Maria
disgusting behaviour

myxomatosis
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:02 PM
If she knew Masha wasn't ready,why did Shahar serve? I'd have waited if I have thought my opponent wasn't ready.Exactly.

Good lord, with the amount of bashing Maria gets for every little perceived wrong she does, you'd think she kicked baby deer off of cliffs and gleefully stole money from orphans.

TTomek
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:02 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: at those who try to defend Maria
disgusting behaviour
and writing that this is Shahar's fought :spit:

bucklemyshoe
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:04 PM
you'd think she gleefully stole money from orphans.

since shes a media whore and obsessed w/ money, it wouldn't surprise people :lol:

frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:06 PM
Exactly.

Good lord, with the amount of bashing Maria gets for every little perceived wrong she does, you'd think she kicked baby deer off of cliffs and gleefully stole money from orphans.
because Shahar was concentrated before serving and just realized Maria's hand was up WHILE she tossed the ball, which resulted in a bad DF :wavey:

No excuse here :fiery:

bis2806
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:07 PM
Maria fans will continue to deny these claims! Hahahahahahaha :lol:

Russianboy90
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:10 PM
yeah!!!
Maria is always the victim :help: :rolleyes:
this thing is she's an awful sportwoman and her behaviour was simply terrible today :o
ohh! Ok... now i say you sth.! Did you saw the match hingis vs. Dechy??? Martina leads 6-3 5-0 and when dechy through the ball for the service she let the ball ball coming down... hingis looked at her and shaked her head!!!!! IMO that was soooo hingis-like! That's SO UNFAIR!!!!!!!!
and jankovic too! She is soooo UNFAIR!!!!! I remember when she played against Juju! There juju called the halweye and the ball of Juju was out then jankovic lokked to her mom and shaked her head and laughed!

Dexter
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:11 PM
I'd love to see it, I hope someone uploads it soon.

adam_ads_n
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:12 PM
I didn't watch it. I didn't see it. But going by the amount of protesting here, I figure it's better Shahar won the game.
well I agree it's good she won that game but when I saw It I was like :eek: what the hell :confused: It's very unfair when you lie to the chair umpire aboiut what you did a second ago. Fair-play is what the game should be about.

I think someone will put it on youtube soon so you'll be able to see what it looked like (I was so surprised that I didn't record it :haha: ).

Dexter
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:13 PM
Anyhoo Shahar still has a chance to win this match, go girl! :hearts:

Pszczelny
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:13 PM
you know what, you don't have to be a 'masha hater' to take exception to the outright lie. it is the lie that is the problem; everything else is debateable but that is incontrovertible.

all you can do is ignore it and pretend that she didn't lie; unless you can find some way to justify the lie as a 'masha lover'.

that's the point

bellascarlett
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:15 PM
its funny seeing the same people over and over again posting in these threads about maria.

i even see some who have risen from the dead. :tape:

franny
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:17 PM
because Shahar was concentrated before serving and just realized Maria's hand was up WHILE she tossed the ball, which resulted in a bad DF :wavey:

No excuse here :fiery:

Are you sure Maria's hands were up? I thought that she was just looking at her racket, which is what she does a lot of times before her opponents serve anyways. It doesnt mean she wasn't ready, it just meant that in the second that it takes her opponent to toss the ball she was looking at her racket.

NOW, if Maria had put up her hand deliberately or had been just standing up normally and looking at her racket, then I'll agree with all of you that she was indeed very very wrong and classless in this situation. But I need to see this for myself, because from what I understand, she was ready but just looking at her racket.

The Daviator
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:19 PM
The match is still on-going, Peer could still win, calm down everyone :lol:

Anyway, it's only Zurich 2R :o

UDACHi
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:22 PM
because Shahar was concentrated before serving and just realized Maria's hand was up WHILE she tossed the ball, which resulted in a bad DF :wavey:

No excuse here :fiery:

is there any proof that shahar saw maria? did she say "i saw maria put her hand up which resulted in my double fault"? and if she did, why didn't she catch the damn ball? :weirdo:

Il Primo!
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:26 PM
Not worse than JHH, it's the same league I guess, but what a league!!

I love Maria but YEAH, she's really bitchy. But it's entertaining, always see the good side :)

Poova
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:27 PM
LOL get the hell over it. :tape: Talk about making a big deal out of something so small. :lol:

bis2806
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:32 PM
its funny seeing the same people over and over again posting in these threads about maria.

i even see some who have risen from the dead. :tape:

And you're not one of those people? :rolleyes:

tennis ace
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:36 PM
:shrug: It's not the first time she's displayed bad sportsmanship and won't be the last. I'm sure Maria fans are well aware of this and aren't going to stop liking her for it now or in the future.

bellascarlett
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:37 PM
And you're not one of those people? :rolleyes:
well in case i confused you, i meant people who are :drool: for these kinds of negative threads about maria and who seemingly live for it...just like y-o-u. :angel:

esquímaux
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:37 PM
lol hilarity.

John.
Oct 19th, 2006, 06:38 PM
Very bad sportsmanship

Kim's_fan_4ever
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Another thread on that :eek: I haven't seen it so I don't know what to think about it :shrug:

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:04 PM
I'm sure Sharapova does this stuff deliberately. Any time she's starting to win back the fans she does something stupid like this. :help:

She never in her life did anything unfair deliberately.
And there are so many outrageous accusations,
why she did not notice what happened to Tati,
why banana, why she took a toilet break,
anything she does is wrong for her haters, why these people cannot enjoy tennis, stop watching tennis and go to politics instead.

But what point it was? I have the whole thing recorded

Maria Croft
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:04 PM
Oh my, Sharapova played a tennis match, that must mean she did something wrong :lol:

Neptune
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Well,Maria was unflair-play.Nothing to defend. :rolleyes:

Maria Croft
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:13 PM
There is nothing to defend, she didn't (as usual) do anything wrong.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:15 PM
Well,Maria was unflair-play.Nothing to defend. :rolleyes:

Yes, there is certainly nothing to defend,
She never does anything wrong.
Perhaps she is too naive, though.
She is in the zone when she's playing, and she does not thing about possibel accusations and how to avoid them.
But who cares, those accusers just show to everybody what low lifes they really are.

stefi62
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Why do you talk about Juju? Has she laready done such a thing? :confused:

Neptune
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:17 PM
There is nothing to defend, she didn't (as usual) do anything wrong.
She just starts to hand up while Peer was serving,no mean for Peer to see Maria moving again.That's is the problem.No the big problem ever but Maria should tell to the umpire "Well,that's true,I wasn't ready" in stade of take the point like that. ;)

MisterMan
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:17 PM
jealous bitches, the lot of you.

jamatthews
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Any ETA on video evidence online so everyone can make up their own mind? :confused:

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:18 PM
What am I even doing here?
Somebody gave this link without a proper warning, I could not imagined that such place even exists.
Is it Hell?

Kipling
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:19 PM
What am I even doing here?
Somebody gave this link without a proper warning, I could not imagined that such place even exists.
Is it Hell?

Even worse--gradeschool.

:lol:

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:19 PM
She just starts to hand up while Peer was serving,no mean for Peer to see Maria moving again.That's is the problem.No the big problem ever but Maria should tell to the umpire "Well,that's true,I wasn't ready" in stade of take the point like that. ;)

Can you tell which exactly point it was (or approximately)?
I think I have everything in mpeg 2 file

Maria Croft
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:20 PM
She just starts to hand up while Peer was serving,no mean for Peer to see Maria moving again.That's is the problem.No the big problem ever but Maria should tell to the umpire "Well,that's true,I wasn't ready" in stade of take the point like that. ;)

There was no 'hand' up :rolleyes:

Neptune
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:21 PM
Can you tell which exactly point it was (or approximately)?
I think I have everything in mpeg 2 file
It's was on the first set.Don't remenber the point.

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:22 PM
i wanna see the video!!!

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:22 PM
It's was on the first set.Don't remenber the point.

Pretty sure it was at 3-all, of course peer serving.first set

MrSerenaWilliams
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:23 PM
wow :eek: Masha :sad:

Neptune
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:23 PM
There was no 'hand' up :rolleyes:
Of course ,yes, and she was looking down WHILE Peer's serve.No way for Peer to see her while she was serving but only after hitting the ball.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:23 PM
It's was on the first set.Don't remenber the point.

do you remember which game?
what was the result before that game?
or after?
At least it is clear that Peer was serving, it narrows down a bit.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:24 PM
I now see that I have recorded from 2:2 in the first set,
forgot to click on the button before,,,,
If it is in the first 4 games, then I cannot check....

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:25 PM
from 2:2 30:30 actually

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:25 PM
I now see that I have recorded from 2:2 in the first set,
forgot to click on the button before,,,,
If it is in the first 4 games, then I cannot check....

Pretty sure it was at 3-all

Meelis
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:26 PM
do you remember which game?
what was the result before that game?
or after?
At least it is clear that Peer was serving, it narrows down a bit.

It was next point after 3-3, 30-15

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:27 PM
on another thread it said it was the seventh game, it was 3-3..

faboozadoo15
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:27 PM
is there any proof that shahar saw maria? did she say "i saw maria put her hand up which resulted in my double fault"? and if she did, why didn't she catch the damn ball? :weirdo:
she didn't even complain. i just don't get people here. making something out of nothing. shahar missed second serves by huge margina all the time. i don't think this is any different.

shahar also plays at a fevers pace a la capriati, so if maria thought shahar was fast serving her, who wouldn't take the free point when she missed the second serve anyway? do you expect maria to run up to the chair and say "I wasn't ready for that horribly hit second serve." ??? shahar didn't even complain, which leads me to believe maria not being in her stance had nothing to do with her missing her serve.

i'm not saying this is good sportsmanship, but come on. handed a point, you take it. if maria's not being ready affected shahar, it would be a different story.

papru
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:29 PM
:armed: :timebomb:
Maria! shame on you!

faboozadoo15
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Of course ,yes, and she was looking down WHILE Peer's serve.No way for Peer to see her while she was serving but only after hitting the ball.
let the record show that you're making shit up left and right.

and what the fuck difference does maria's body position and where she's looking had to do with shahar's serve after she hits the fucking ball?

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:30 PM
she didn't even complain. i just don't get people here. making something out of nothing. shahar missed second serves by huge margina all the time. i don't think this is any different.

shahar also plays at a fevers pace a la capriati, so if maria thought shahar was fast serving her, who wouldn't take the free point when she missed the second serve anyway? do you expect maria to run up to the chair and say "I wasn't ready for that horribly hit second serve." ??? shahar didn't even complain, which leads me to believe maria not being in her stance had nothing to do with her missing her serve.

i'm not saying this is good sportsmanship, but come on. handed a point, you take it. if maria's not being ready affected shahar, it would be a different story.

Hello, did you not see her go up to the net and say maria wasnt ready, it was pretty clear she did.

Serge007
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:35 PM
Hello, did you not see her go up to the net and say maria wasnt ready, it was pretty clear she did.
If Shahar saw Maria wasn't ready and served... it is "a Shahar' bad fair-play"?

johnoo
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:37 PM
peer was not even looking at sharapova,she went to do a 2nd serve stopped mid throw and then quickly did another without looking to see if sharapova was ready,would have been interesting to see what would have happened if she had not double faulted,IMO seemed like both were messing about a bit.

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:37 PM
If Shahar saw Maria wasn't ready and served... it is "a Shahar' bad fair-play"?

But you don't know if Shahar saw her, if she did she prolly would not have served.

Lenafan
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:38 PM
She continues to remind me of Kobe Bryant. Talented, excellent competitor and despicable personality whose not really well liked by her peers if you read between the lines of their comments.

perseus2006
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:40 PM
According to a detailed description of the "incident" on ESPN, there was no signal from Pova that she was not ready. Peer served into the net, then claimed that Pova was not ready.

Lets see the video!

This seems like just another attempt by haters to tarnish Pova.

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:41 PM
Yeah!!
Where Is The Video?!?!???!!!

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:43 PM
ok, I watched it again
it was at 3:3 30:15

Peer started to serve the 2nd serve and and abruptly stopped HERSELF.
That threw perhaps a bit Maria from readiness, she lifted left elbow towards her face a bit,, and Peer, seeing that, served in a hurry again, hoping to catch Maria when not yet ready, she hit the net, and afterwards, when the ball was already in the net Maria lifter her other arm.

Anyway, the whole interruption was initiated by Peer, and the serve followed this interruption unexpectedly fast, as if trying to catch Maria not ready
But I may be wrong, I don't think I can say for sure it was deliberate from Peer,
although looked like it.

faboozadoo15
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:44 PM
But you don't know if Shahar saw her, if she did she prolly would not have served.
but if peer didn't see her, how could it have affected her serve? once again, peer double faults all the fucking time.

myxomatosis
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:48 PM
ok, I watched it again
it was at 3:3 30:15

Peer started to serve the 2nd serve and and abruptly stopped HERSELF.
That threw perhaps a bit Maria from readiness, she lifted left elbow towards her face a bit,, and Peer, seeing that, served in a hurry again, hoping to catch Maria when not yet ready, she hit the net, and afterwards, when the ball was already in the net Maria lifter her other arm.

Anyway, the whole interruption was initiated by Peer, and the serve followed this interruption unexpectedly fast, as if trying to catch Maria not ready
But I may be wrong, I don't think I can say for sure it was deliberate from Peer,
although looked like it.Wow, that's certainly a diferent story than what some people on here are claiming.
I really hope someone can upload a video...

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:49 PM
She continues to remind me of Kobe Bryant. Talented, excellent competitor and despicable personality whose not really well liked by her peers if you read between the lines of their comments.

you are despicable, if you here about Masha
Never in her life she did anything unfair, let alone despicable.
using such a word is really despicable.

The closest to despicable was Jennifer in that incident with Serena.

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:51 PM
but if peer didn't see her, how could it have affected her serve? once again, peer double faults all the fucking time.

I'm not saying it did but Maria had her raquet up which should have been a reserve, regardless or not if Shahar saw it.

Lefty.
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:54 PM
Wow, that's certainly a diferent story than what some people on here are claiming.
I really hope someone can upload a video...

I second that. I'm still very confused on what happened.

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 07:56 PM
i agree!!
Someone post a video!!
every one is saying completely different things.....

VIDEO!! VIDEO!! VIDEO!!VIDEO!! VIDEO!! VIDEO!!VIDEO!! VIDEO!! VIDEO!!VIDEO!! VIDEO!! VIDEO!!VIDEO!! VIDEO!! VIDEO!!VIDEO!! VIDEO!! VIDEO!!VIDEO!! VIDEO!! VIDEO!!

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:05 PM
I'm not saying it did but Maria had her raquet up which should have been a reserve, regardless or not if Shahar saw it.

Actually she lifted her elbow up, not the racket itself, after Peer interrupted her 2nd serve
It was like this

1. Peer starts the toss of the ball and interrupts it, the ball never leaves her hand
2. Maria straightens up
3. Maria raises her left elbow
4. Peer tosses the ball up, at that moment Maria's elbow is already down,
but she stands a bit straighter perhaps and not jumping
5. The ball hits the net,
6. Maria lifts up her other elbow

That was rather quickly, you may also interpret that Maria lifted one elbow and then the other as if in a sequence,
but the serving was in the middle.

Anyway, if you interrupt your serve, you better take a look to make sure your opponent is ready again.

If you do not look, then you are not affected,
if you look, you see the elbow up, and still serve, then you are wrong.

For sure, her elbow went down , when Peer tossed the ball, the elbow was down. But Maria was rather straight standing.

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:09 PM
Actually she lifted her elbow up, not the racket itself, after Peer interrupted her 2nd serve
It was like this

1. Peer starts the toss of the ball and interrupts it, the ball never leaves her hand
2. Maria straightens up
3. Maria raises her left elbow
4. Peer tosses the ball up, at that moment Maria's elbow is already down,
but she stands a bit straighter perhaps and not jumping
5. The ball hits the net,
6. Maria lifts up her other elbow

That was rather quickly, you may also interpret that Maria lifted one elbow and then the other as if in a sequence,
but the serving was in the middle.

Anyway, if you interrupt your serve, you better take a look to make sure your oponent is ready again.

If you do not look, then you are not affected,
if you look, you see the elbow up, and still serve, then you are wrong.

For sure, her elbow went down , when Peer tossed the ball, the elbow was down. But Maria was rather straight standing.

Thanks for trying, but that didn't make anything clearer....

the cat
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:12 PM
Thanks for clearing things up Mark. It seems Masha wasn't in the wrong afterall.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:17 PM
Thanks for trying, but that didn't make anything clearer....

One one hand, Masha did not look very ready at that moment, that is true,
on the other hand, the interruption itself was caused by Peer, not by Masha,
and Peer should have made sure that Masha was ready before trying to serve again.
It looked to me as if she wanted to serve when Masha not yet ready first,
and then, to claim it as an excuse to repeat the serve.
As if Peer wanted to have it both ways.

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:29 PM
it sounds to me like a whole lot was made out of nothing....

frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:34 PM
ohh! Ok... now i say you sth.! Did you saw the match hingis vs. Dechy??? Martina leads 6-3 5-0 and when dechy through the ball for the service she let the ball ball coming down... hingis looked at her and shaked her head!!!!! IMO that was soooo hingis-like! That's SO UNFAIR!!!!!!!!
and jankovic too! She is soooo UNFAIR!!!!! I remember when she played against Juju! There juju called the halweye and the ball of Juju was out then jankovic lokked to her mom and shaked her head and laughed!

OK let me tell you something!!

In the same match, Martina gave Dechy the point when Nat's CC forehand was called out :wavey:

LoveFifteen
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:36 PM
Maria is copying everyone :o
first Serena, then Justine, maybe Kim is next.

Let's hope she copies Kim's classic post-US Open win move: DUMP HER COACH! :devil:

GoDominique
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:38 PM
Anymore clips?

Ben.
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:38 PM
who cares what maria did, she really didn't do any wrong. shahar won that game didn't she so why get upset over nothing. stupid if u ask me :rolleyes:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Yeah I would love to see a video to see if it worse than Justine's (as the thread starter stated).

frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:41 PM
ok, I watched it again
it was at 3:3 30:15

Peer started to serve the 2nd serve and and abruptly stopped HERSELF.
That threw perhaps a bit Maria from readiness, she lifted left elbow towards her face a bit,, and Peer, seeing that, served in a hurry again, hoping to catch Maria when not yet ready, she hit the net, and afterwards, when the ball was already in the net Maria lifter her other arm.
Anyway, the whole interruption was initiated by Peer, and the serve followed this interruption unexpectedly fast, as if trying to catch Maria not ready
But I may be wrong, I don't think I can say for sure it was deliberate from Peer,
although looked like it.

That's sooo wrong :help:
People only see what they wanna see :rolleyes:

jacobruiz
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:46 PM
ok, I watched it again
it was at 3:3 30:15

Peer started to serve the 2nd serve and and abruptly stopped HERSELF.
That threw perhaps a bit Maria from readiness, she lifted left elbow towards her face a bit,, and Peer, seeing that, served in a hurry again, hoping to catch Maria when not yet ready, she hit the net, and afterwards, when the ball was already in the net Maria lifter her other arm.

Anyway, the whole interruption was initiated by Peer, and the serve followed this interruption unexpectedly fast, as if trying to catch Maria not ready
But I may be wrong, I don't think I can say for sure it was deliberate from Peer,
although looked like it.


So the "hand up" thing was just a lie? Figures.:lol: Haters have to resort to making up stuff to hate on Maria.

Come on, Maria! Win the title here!:kiss:

johnoo
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Thanks for trying, but that didn't make anything clearer....
ok try this(btw I'm uploading the whole match but I don't have time to mess about with points cause the capture is 60gbs and I need to clear it tonight or won't have space to capture tomorrow)
peer goes to 2nd serve,maria is ready,peer aborts the serve as the ball comes down,maria does her usual preparation thing to receive,stares and messes with strings,peer does not look but serves again straight away without looking at sharapova and double faults,sharapova looks up and walks over to the other side of the court,the umpire said sharapova was ready which is not really true :D it was pretty funny actual and there was a bit of friction going on with these two just before,anyway it helped to make a good match

alfonsojose
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Tricks from Pova's coach
http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/12424.jpg?is=225,225,0xffffff

Filippo-Nastya
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:50 PM
and jankovic too! She is soooo UNFAIR!!!!! I remember when she played against Juju! There juju called the halweye and the ball of Juju was out then jankovic lokked to her mom and shaked her head and laughed!

Are you talking about the US Open 1/2, right? ;)
I remember that Jelena laughed because Jujù's ball was clearly out so she couldn't believe that JHH had wasted a challenge in that way! :lol:

Melly Flew Us
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:57 PM
So the "hand up" thing was just a lie? Figures.:lol: Haters have to resort to making up stuff to hate on Maria.

Come on, Maria! Win the title here!:kiss:

errr, ask your friend if he didn't see maria with her raquet in her left hand and her right hand up after all that?
then ask your friend if pe'er didn't go to the net and tell the umpire maria wasn't ready.
next question should be: did the umpire ask maria if she was ready or not and what was the response?
and finally, did your friend hear the umpire actually say that 'i checked her and she was ready' or something like that; after maria had her right hand up and raquet in left hand?

you need to see it for yourself; i did, although i was only watching LIVE on eurosport.

i guess that doesn't count though - i could be mistaken as i wasn't actually in the stadium and only had a split second to see it (plus the slow-mo replay the zurich broadcastors were so obliging to provide so promptly).

if you don't understand the point of this post what i mean is:
ask your friend whether or not maria was ready; whether or not she made a sign that she wasn't ready and what did she say when asked a direct question about the incident?

DragonFlame
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:00 PM
welcome to the club maria! :woohoo: :lol:

Neptune
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:06 PM
So,if Maria was cleary not ready.What she said "Of course,I was ready."Your argumentation is over.

franny
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Actually she lifted her elbow up, not the racket itself, after Peer interrupted her 2nd serve
It was like this

1. Peer starts the toss of the ball and interrupts it, the ball never leaves her hand
2. Maria straightens up
3. Maria raises her left elbow
4. Peer tosses the ball up, at that moment Maria's elbow is already down,
but she stands a bit straighter perhaps and not jumping
5. The ball hits the net,
6. Maria lifts up her other elbow

That was rather quickly, you may also interpret that Maria lifted one elbow and then the other as if in a sequence,
but the serving was in the middle.

Anyway, if you interrupt your serve, you better take a look to make sure your opponent is ready again.

If you do not look, then you are not affected,
if you look, you see the elbow up, and still serve, then you are wrong.

For sure, her elbow went down , when Peer tossed the ball, the elbow was down. But Maria was rather straight standing.

Lol, looks like Peer's inconsiderateness backfired on her. All this seriously for NOTHING. I can't wait until the video is up so we can all see it and prove once and for all that Maria did nothing wrong, and nothing unsportsman-like. People like to see what they want to see, and if you have vandetta against someone, they will say bad things about them no matter what.

Cat's Pajamas
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:22 PM
you are despicable, if you here about Masha
Never in her life she did anything unfair, let alone despicable.
using such a word is really despicable.

The closest to despicable was Jennifer in that incident with Serena.


what an idiot :rolls:

I suppose you know Maria very well and she has never told a lie, cheated on a grade, or stole something :angel: :weirdo:

Anyways it sounds a bit of :o-ness on both players, but the fact of the matter is, is that Maria should've admitted she wasn't ready :wavey:

The end.

Elenarulez
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:28 PM
maria is a bitch.

video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA8e1N74OOo

morningglory
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:30 PM
welcome to the club maria! :woohoo: :lol:
oh no... I was hoping she'd get allied with the Williamses and she gets allied with their nemesis, Justine! :o

DragonFlame
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:31 PM
oh no... I was hoping she'd get allied with the Williamses and she gets allied with their nemesis, Justine! :o

lol, doesnt matter. It's the price of fame ;) The best get hated more then the rest, just see it as a compliment :)

morningglory
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:33 PM
:lol: if it wins her RG I suppose...
now she should marry Feliciano Lopez or Igor Andreev and have them wear blouses to her matches... and she needs to shrink around half a foot in height I suppose :lol:

Just_lindsay
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:33 PM
My two cents:

Looks: Sharapova > Henin-Hardenne
Sportsmanship: Henin-Hardenne > Sharapova

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:34 PM
So,if Maria was cleary not ready.What she said "Of course,I was ready."Your argumentation is over.

First of all, the question was not "were you ready?" but "were you not ready?"
and the answer was "yep" - meaning "not ready"
because, obviously, "yep" to "where you ready?" would mean "ready"
The questien here was opposite. No double negatives in English, ok?

So perhaps the chair umpire asked the question in such a way that he then wrongly understood the correct answer.

Second of all, she had the damn right to say she was ready anyway,
because that was Peer who aborted the serve, and it was Peer who had to make sure Maria was ready again.
If Peer thought Maria was ready when she served, then why she suddenly thought otherwise when the serve was unsuccessful?

Maria DID NOT lift her hand to signal that she was not ready,
she only lifted her elbow as if to touch her face with her arm,
and the arm was back down again at the moment of the serve.
But she was standing straight, not hunched down and jumping, and that Maria's pose did not look wrong to Peer, she served anyway.
Only when the ball hit the net, she suddenly decided that Maria was not ready.

Elenarulez
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:35 PM
First of all, the question was not "were you ready?" but "were you not ready?"
and the answer was "yep" - meaning "not ready"
because, obviously, "yep" to "where you ready?" would mean "ready"
The questien here was opposite. No double negatives in English, ok?

So perhaps the chair umpire asked the question in such a way that he then wrongly understood the correct answer.

Second of all, she had the damn right to say she was ready anyway,
because that was Peer who aborted the serve, and it was Peer who had to make sure Maria was ready again.
If Peer thought Maria was ready when she served, then why she suddenly thought otherwise when the serve was unsuccessful?

Maria DID NOT lift her hand to signal that she was not ready,
she only lifted her elbow as if to touch her face with her arm,
and the arm was back down again at the moment of the serve.
But she was standing straight, not hunched down and jumping, and that Maria's pose did not look wrong to Peer, she served anyway.
Only when the ball hit the net, she suddenly decided that Maria was not ready.

:help:

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:36 PM
Ok just watched it, Shahar stopped her first service motion then began a new one, maria was backing up and holding up her raquet, should have been a reserve.It was clear Shahar didn't look up.

morningglory
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:37 PM
First of all, the question was not "were you ready?" but "were you not ready?"
and the answer was "yep" - meaning "not ready"
because, obviously, "yep" to "where you ready?" would mean "ready"
The questien here was opposite. No double negatives in English, ok?

So perhaps the chair umpire asked the question in such a way that he then wrongly understood the correct answer.

Second of all, she had the damn right to say she was ready anyway,
because that was Peer who aborted the serve, and it was Peer who had to make sure Maria was ready again.
If Peer thought Maria was ready when she served, then why she suddenly thought otherwise when the serve was unsuccessful?

Maria DID NOT lift her hand to signal that she was not ready,
she only lifted her elbow as if to touch her face with her arm,
and the arm was back down again at the moment of the serve.
But she was standing straight, not hunched down and jumping, and that Maria's pose did not look wrong to Peer, she served anyway.
Only when the ball hit the net, she suddenly decided that Maria was not ready.
no. In English the answer to "Were you ready?" or "Were you not ready?" is always "no." if you are not ready :o
Of course foreign speakers get confused with this one very often... and even American themselves... (The Brits not so much... dunno why)

SJW
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:37 PM
In the spirit of fair play, she would have given Peer another second serve.
It really is hard to defend Maria on this one, Maria fans. Poor sportsmanship is poor sportsmanship, and I find it outrageous that you're surprised it gained attention.
Of course, I have no doubt that it didn't affect the match, which means you can't lump her in a league with JHH. That's just mean.

hu2891601
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:39 PM
Maria is not very smart to do something like this at tournament like Zurich 2nd round.... and do this to someone like Peer, she has a good record against her, too.

haha, maybe she did this because she knows that Zurich is not broadcasted in US, so, the most powerful media in the world won't say or know anything.. lol.

frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:39 PM
maria is a bitch.

video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA8e1N74OOo

What more can you say now :rolleyes:
she's THE bitch

Neptune
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:39 PM
First of all, the question was not "were you ready?" but "were you not ready?"
and the answer was "yep" - meaning "not ready"
because, obviously, "yep" to "where you ready?" would mean "ready"
The questien here was opposite. No double negatives in English, ok?

So perhaps the chair umpire asked the question in such a way that he then wrongly understood the correct answer.

Second of all, she had the damn right to say she was ready anyway,
because that was Peer who aborted the serve, and it was Peer who had to make sure Maria was ready again.
If Peer thought Maria was ready when she served, then why she suddenly thought otherwise when the serve was unsuccessful?

Maria DID NOT lift her hand to signal that she was not ready,
she only lifted her elbow as if to touch her face with her arm,
and the arm was back down again at the moment of the serve.
But she was standing straight, not hunched down and jumping, and that Maria's pose did not look wrong to Peer, she served anyway.
Only when the ball hit the net, she suddenly decided that Maria was not ready.
:help: :tape: :rolleyes:

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:41 PM
First of all, the question was not "were you ready?" but "were you not ready?"
and the answer was "yep" - meaning "not ready"
because, obviously, "yep" to "where you ready?" would mean "ready"
The questien here was opposite. No double negatives in English, ok?

So perhaps the chair umpire asked the question in such a way that he then wrongly understood the correct answer.

Second of all, she had the damn right to say she was ready anyway,
because that was Peer who aborted the serve, and it was Peer who had to make sure Maria was ready again.
If Peer thought Maria was ready when she served, then why she suddenly thought otherwise when the serve was unsuccessful?

Maria DID NOT lift her hand to signal that she was not ready,
she only lifted her elbow as if to touch her face with her arm,
and the arm was back down again at the moment of the serve.
But she was standing straight, not hunched down and jumping, and that Maria's pose did not look wrong to Peer, she served anyway.
Only when the ball hit the net, she suddenly decided that Maria was not ready.

Maria was clearly holding up her raquet and she was backing up, I don't see that as ready, and shahar did not look up while she was serving.

hu2891601
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:41 PM
no. In English the answer to "Were you ready?" or "Were you not ready?" is always "no." if you are not ready :o
Of course foreign speakers get confused with this one very often... and even American themselves... (The Brits not so much... dunno why)


yup, i agree. that's english, doesn't matter how you ask, if it's no, then it's no. if she said 'yes', that means she is ready. :)

franny
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:42 PM
Had Peer made the serve, guess what she would have won the point. The serve controls the pace unless her opponent makes a signal to her to wait. Sharapova made no such signals, Peer served regardless of what Sharapova was doing, and then complained about it when she should have waited to begin with. Whatever ya'll, bitch all you want, but the real bitch isn't Maria.

Tennace
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:42 PM
Maria :rolleyes:

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Shahar clearly didn't look up and didn't notice what Maria was doing till AFTER she missed the serve....
Maria wasn't ready however....She didn't raise her hand either, she was wiping her face with her forearm, she surely wasn't signaling to Shahar that she wasn't ready...

frenchie
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Shahar clearly didn't look up and didn't notice what Maria was doing till AFTER she missed the serve....
Maria wasn't ready however....She didn't raise her hand either, she was wiping her face with her forearm, she surely wasn't signaling to Shahar that she wasn't ready...

come on :rolleyes:

LefandePatty
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:44 PM
Yeah wasn't that nice from her, but I didn't care 'cuz I like bitchy moments :lol:

After that the crowd was cheering for Shahar but not me.

Sharakim
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:44 PM
I think fault goes to both players. Peer didn't look up before she served her second serve and Maria didn't get ready to recieve in time. The umpire should've replayed the point. I don't think it was a question of bad sportsmenship because I don't think Maria intended to mess with Peer, she was just a little clueless and unthoughtful.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:45 PM
no. In English the answer to "Were you ready?" or "Were you not ready?" is always "no." if you are not ready :o
Of course foreign speakers get confused with this one very often... and even American themselves... (The Brits not so much... dunno why)

So how do you say you were ready when answering the question "were you not ready?"

Are you saying that "yes" means you were ready?
Obviously not,
- Were you not ready?
- Yes, I was not ready
that what yes means
- Were you ready?
- Yes, I was ready

We are not even speaking about what "no' means, but what "yes" means.

You cannot say that both questions
"were you ready" and "were you not ready" are the same?
They are opposite!

DragonFlame
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:45 PM
Maria DID NOT lift her hand to signal that she was not ready,
she only lifted her elbow as if to touch her face with her arm,
and the arm was back down again at the moment of the serve.
But she was standing straight, not hunched down and jumping, and that Maria's pose did not look wrong to Peer, she served anyway.
Only when the ball hit the net, she suddenly decided that Maria was not ready.

lol she had her arm up 90degree in front of her with her racket pointing up and her other hand whiping her face and also crossing her legs. how can she be rdy like that? :tape: :lol:

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:46 PM
I think fault goes to both players. Peer didn't look up before she served her second serve and Maria didn't get ready to recieve in time. The umpire should've replayed the point. I don't think it was a question of bad sportsmenship because I don't think Maria intended to mess with Peer, she was just a little clueless and unthoughtful.

Far from it.

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:49 PM
I think fault goes to both players. Peer didn't look up before she served her second serve and Maria didn't get ready to recieve in time. The umpire should've replayed the point. I don't think it was a question of bad sportsmenship because I don't think Maria intended to mess with Peer, she was just a little clueless and unthoughtful.

I agree!!
Sharapova certainly had no effect on Peer's missing the Serve.

shad9480
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:49 PM
Yep...truly agree with markspot.

When I watch the video, it was Peer's fault...the fact that she served it out without checking whether her opponent was ready after she stopped her own serve. Trying to catch Maria unguarded...duh :rolleyes: Then, when she hit the net...she tried to pin it on Maria.

After watching the video,the one only thing that is obvious is...Masha haters are just at it again :ras:

Come on Masha...win this tourny and let them burn :devil:

hu2891601
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:50 PM
Shahar clearly didn't look up and didn't notice what Maria was doing till AFTER she missed the serve....
Maria wasn't ready however....She didn't raise her hand either, she was wiping her face with her forearm, she surely wasn't signaling to Shahar that she wasn't ready...


maria didn't raise her hand???? you should watch the video again. she clearly hold up her raquet, if that's what you meant that she didn't hold up her hand. But hold up her raquet is the same as hold up her hand, they both mean that she wasn't ready... shahar knew that she holds up the hand, because the 2nd serve is unnormally soft and barely hit to the net.. After the double fault, Maria acted like nothing has ever happened, and just walked straight to the deuce side... that's total cheating.

No.1Hingis
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:50 PM
1.- You cant used UNFAIR to say this about.. or that.. UNFAIR for me is get IN players that just dont have anything related to this thread.. just Maria and Peer are involved..
2.- I was chatting with someone who was watching the match and that person told me what had happened.. so firstable.. funny..
3.- There was the umpire .. so he just had to do the correct coming from his appreciation..
4.- Then.. what.. we cant change anything... if Maria did something wrong then their fans must discuss about it.. so.. a side that every other are just opinnions.. I guess we just should limit ourselves to not be rude..
5.- If she is or not.. then she has fans that like her as she is.. if not.. well.. then you do not be fan.. so thats all.. if was Justine cause Justine.. we wanna to take revenge from what a Hingis, Amelie, WS fan wrote here.. then get in those comment and comparation of players with the situation we lost the real view.. so.. for me is logical that if you are a big fan you must defend her .. even everybody knows what things are good and which arent.. dont we???

Filippo-Nastya
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:51 PM
Thx to Elenarulez for the video!! ;)

Bad behaviour Maria! :tape:

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:51 PM
lol she had her arm up 90degree in front of her with her racket pointing up and her other hand whiping her face and also crossing her legs. how can she be rdy like that? :tape: :lol:

She lifted both her arms one at a time,
left - before the serve, right - after the serve,
during the toss and the serve both were down..

But the question is: Why Peer was serving at all if it was so obvious Maria was not ready?
When Peer aborted the serve it was her duty to look and make sure that Maria was ready again

In my opinion, Maria was not really ready, but Peer should not have served.

Let's say the situation is opposite:
Peer serves successfully and wins the point.
It would seem then that Peer took advantage and won the point unfairly.
And I don't care if she was not looking, her obligation was to look.

KBdoubleu
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:52 PM
CLEARLY Maria is in the wrong, however (unlike Justine at the French) this did not appear to have to great an effect on the match. But honestly, Maria this year has shown a great deal of gamesmanship (frequent bathroom breaks when shes down in sets, match vs. Golovin, now this)

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:53 PM
Just saw the video. Sharapova was clearly not ready. There's no need to argue this.

Ravsieg
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:55 PM
Shit after shit..

I'm so ashamed for once liking Maria.
I know everyone makes mistakes, but this is way too big to be acceptable.

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:57 PM
maria didn't raise her hand???? you should watch the video again. she clearly hold up her raquet, if that's what you meant that she didn't hold up her hand. But hold up her raquet is the same as hold up her hand, they both mean that she wasn't ready... shahar knew that she holds up the hand, because the 2nd serve is unnormally soft and barely hit to the net.. After the double fault, Maria acted like nothing has ever happened, and just walked straight to the deuce side... that's total cheating.

She wasn't really holding her racquet up, she was just wiping her face...
She clearly wasn't holding the racquet up signaling to Peer that she wasn't ready...

SHe clearly wasn't ready, but wasn't signaling to peer in anyway to stop...
And peer clearly didn't notice anything till after she had served, since Maria was still wiping her face until the score was announced...

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 09:59 PM
very likely Peer didn't see that Maria's not ready. From the video she didn't look up after the pause.

She lifted both her arms one at a time,
left - before the serve, right - after the serve,
during the toss and the serve both were down..

But the question is: Why Peer was serving at all if it was so obvious Maria was not ready?
When Peer aborted the serve it was her duty to look and make sure that Maria was ready again

In my opinion, Maria was not really ready, but Peer should not have served.

Let's say the situation is opposite:
Peer serves successfully and wins the point.
It would seem then that Peer took advantage and won the point unfairly.
And I don't care if she was not looking, her obligation was to look.

Derek.
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:00 PM
:lol: :tape:

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:02 PM
She didn't signal. But it's clear, without any problem that she's not ready. She backed off from the agressive position where she usually recieves second serve, and the moment the ball went off she's holding the racket with her left hand. With these clear signs there's actually no need for her to give a signal, it's just obvious.

She wasn't really holding her racquet up, she was just wiping her face...
She clearly wasn't holding the racquet up signaling to Peer that she wasn't ready...

SHe clearly wasn't ready, but wasn't signaling to peer in anyway to stop...
And peer clearly didn't notice anything till after she had served, since Maria was still wiping her face until the score was announced...

Maria Croft
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:03 PM
This hate really makes me sick :o

Ryan
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:03 PM
How is this cheating? Peer didn't see Sharapova raise her hand, otherwise she wouldn't have served. Her serve went into the net, so Sharapova could have been masturbating and it doesn't matter at all. If her serve went in, she would complain that Maria was ready.

morningglory
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:03 PM
Saw it. Maria was NOT ready (and don't even try to convince me otherwise) but Shahar didn't see it either. She just served... so if that had went in the point should go to Shahar tho (since Maria wiped her sweat AFTER Shahar made contact with that ball)

Nemesis
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:04 PM
oh my ... history repeating!

Maria fans: feel the horror JHH fans had to go through (but imagine it being worse since Zürich 1/8th round vs. virtually fanless Peer ain't no slam SF vs. Serena) ... I hope you can sympathise with us Ju fans now since I sympathise with you. Adknowledge Maria's mistake, but I can't imagine this being a reason to love Maria (much) less.

teutonicplague
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:05 PM
This hate really makes me sick :o

This isnt hate I don't think.
Maria was in the wrong here but as many have said it didn't affect the game. It's just disappointing I guess that she did it.

DragonFlame
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:06 PM
How is this cheating? Peer didn't see Sharapova raise her hand, otherwise she wouldn't have served. Her serve went into the net, so Sharapova could have been masturbating and it doesn't matter at all. If her serve went in, she would complain that Maria was ready.

did you see the serve?, the ball barely made the net. Something must have disturbed her, nobody serves like that at that level.(okie maybe elena :p )

And people saying maria didn't signal, come on She was holding up her racket in front of her and recieving a second serve a few meters behind the baseline :o

anyway, i don't really care. I actually think it's pretty funny :lol:

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Peer didn't miss the second serve cause Maria signaled her that she wasn't ready...
I don't see how this is clearly Maria's fault, cause it isn't....

Peer really didn't seem to care that much after the point was over anyway...
People definitely blew it up out of proportion on the boards...

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:08 PM
So your other self in a parallel universe in which the serve actually went in told you that?

...If her serve went in, she would complain that Maria was ready.

TenFan335
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:09 PM
AND, she didn't miss the second serve by that much....it hit tape...

JPhurst
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:09 PM
I suggest Sharapova fans should now adopt the following avatar for their favorite player...

teutonicplague
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:10 PM
To be honest I think the worst thing about it was that Maria said she was ready when asked by the umpire. Why do that when you know the TV cameras are going to show something different?

dinhd82
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:11 PM
Maria and Juju are of the same kind, unfair play.

DragonFlame
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:13 PM
Maria and Juju are of the same kind, unfair play.

yeah they're clearly come from hell :eek: Don't you love it when evil rules supreme? :p

einna
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Maria and Juju are of the same kind, unfair play.

they really are of the same kind.. both are grand slam winners ;)

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:14 PM
yeah they're clearly come from hell :eek: Don't you love it when evil rules supreme? :p

Lol, actually good reigns supreme, hence why Amelie is number one.

DragonFlame
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Lol, actually good reigns supreme, hence why Amelie is number one.

not for long anymore ;)

Ryan
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:15 PM
did you see the serve?, the ball barely made the net. Something must have disturbed her, nobody serves like that at that level.(okie maybe elena :p )

And people saying maria didn't signal, come on She was holding up her racket in front of her and recieving a second serve a few meters behind the baseline :o

anyway, i don't really care. I actually think it's pretty funny :lol:


Yeah, I saw the serve. It was a shitty second serve. End of story, we can't prove either way if anything affected her.

Ryan
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:16 PM
So your other self in a parallel universe in which the serve actually went in told you that?



No, but that's my opinion. You know, thats why it was in MY post, as opposed to yours. I don't know if she would have done that, but I think she would have.

dinhd82
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:16 PM
they really are of the same kind.. both are grand slam winners ;)

who play dirty when it calls for it.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:21 PM
CLEARLY Maria is in the wrong, however (unlike Justine at the French) this did not appear to have to great an effect on the match. But honestly, Maria this year has shown a great deal of gamesmanship (frequent bathroom breaks when shes down in sets, match vs. Golovin, now this)

Perhaps the umpire was in the wrong then?
Maria supported Peer, confirmed she was not ready:
"were you NOT ready?"
"yep"
I like to take this answer as "yes, not ready"

although really Peer had the obligation to look before serving, just imagine if she had won the point on that serve, it would not have been fair
Therefore I think she should not have it both ways,
if Maria did not signal her to stop, then she should not claim that Maria was not ready, because Maria hersellf could not have claimed that she was not ready if Peer had won that point.


About bathroom breaks, these were genuine bathroom breaks, I think
Even before the Wimbledon final started. She needs - she takes a break.
But they were not very frequent at all. I remember bathroom breaks in USO 2005 where she actually returned afterwards and practically was not able to play, both with Petrova and with Clijsters, she clearly was sick and needed even longer bathroom breaks.

And what about the match with Golovin?
That is the most unfair to her thing of all.
She had already her back to Golovin and was walking towards the baseline when Golovin twisted the ankle, then Maria tried to watch on the big screen in the stadium and that moment was not shown then.
It did not even occur to her that it was not cramps.
We saw on tv what happened but she did not.
How can anybody hold it against her.
BTW, Tati is her friend, she stayed with her afterwards until ambulance took her away

When she almost lost that YEC final to Serena because of inexperience with medical issues of opponents, she learned her lesson, stay ready, stay focused, do not get distracted, do not get stiff.

In my perception Maria is one of the most fair and correct players.
She is always focused, always in the zone, she does not even know what gamesmanship is. You may not be more wrong on this.
She is too naive in that respect I believe.
And she does not allow herself to get distracted with gamesmanship or whatever.
But she is very driven, very tough mentally, not distracted from the main purpose to win, that is what makes her a great champion.
But some people find it to be ruthless or cruel or whatever.
They are all professionals, they have no right to choose that profession and then expect gifts from others.

Again, most shokingly unfair players are Justine and Jennifer in that episode with Serena, because she clearly, undoubtedly new the ball was good.
All her behavior showed that.
After that incident she is dead to me.
If Masha would do something like that, she would be dead to me too.
But I think she is very fair and she is being very unfairly accused

Oneofakind0490
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:22 PM
That was pretty bad:tape:

teutonicplague
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:24 PM
But she isn't being unfairly accused, she clearly was not ready to receive serve and she then lied about it when asked by the umpire. Thats the bottom line.
It didnt affect the match but it's just disappointing from Maria.

einna
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:24 PM
i think it wasn't on purpose though.. it sort of kinda just happened..

JPhurst
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:26 PM
I think the real screw up comes from the referee.

You don't ask if someone was ready. The question is not whether someone is in a metaphysical state of "readiness." The question is whether she indicated that she was not ready, either by calling time or by clearly being in a position where she wasn't prepared to receive serve. The referee either sees that or he does not.

When Shahar first protested, he should have said. "I didn't see her call time, I didn't call time, play on." Asking Sharapova "were you ready" just made everyone look bad.

The other side of this is that a player CAN override a referee. If Sharapova really was not ready, she should have just said "second service" and the referee would have allowed a replay. But a referee also shouldn't put her on the spot to see if she is willing to overrule him.

Still, I like the new Maria avatar...

streag
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:27 PM
The only thing to blame on Maria that she is dumb enough to make mistakes just like this one.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:35 PM
But she isn't being unfairly accused, she clearly was not ready to receive serve and she then lied about it when asked by the umpire. Thats the bottom line.
It didnt affect the match but it's just disappointing from Maria.

She lied? She said she was not ready.
The umpire asked: "were you NOT ready?"
Which one of the two "yes" or "no" means "not ready"?
Double negatives in English are not allowed, remember.
She certanly had to answer differently than to possible question
"were you ready?"
So blame the umpire..


The unfair person here was Peer, she interrupted and aborted her serve, she had an obligation to make sure Maria was ready again, and she served anyway.
What if she had won that point? Then what?
It would not have been fair to Maria. Because she did not signal Peer to wait,
she could not claim she was not ready afterwards.

Greenout
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:35 PM
Everyone wants to win, and have the upper hand, but it's the chair umpire's duty to neutralize things.

I've seen chair umpires ignore lesser or certain players they obviously aren't ok with, and even seen a few chair umpire become very angry when questioned about calls when they were clearly half asleep.

No player is shockingly "unfair". They do not control the game, the chair umpire is there.

If there's a problem, blame it on the chair umpire - I for one assume that it's pretty intense and most players are on court in some weird match game haze. The chair is the only sober one, it's his/her duty to clear things up.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:41 PM
The only thing to blame on Maria that she is dumb enough to make mistakes just like this one.

I agree.
Her PR people shoud teach her. And her father.
Perhaps dumb, or perhaps naive or too pure, too concentrated on tennis and not on appearances. But when she is "in the zone" nothing else exists for her, and perhaps it would be bad in terms of winning the match to get out of the zone.

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:43 PM
I agree.
Her PR people shoud teach her. And her father.
Perhaps dumb, or perhaps naive or too pure, too concentrated on tennis and not on appearances. But when she is "in the zone" nothing else exists for her, and perhaps it would be bad in terms of winning the match to get out of the zone.


Lol, you want Yuri to teach her, basicly if that happened, almost the whole board would hate her.

Buitenzorg
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:44 PM
:eek:

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:47 PM
I think the real screw up comes from the referee.

You don't ask if someone was ready. The question is not whether someone is in a metaphysical state of "readiness." The question is whether she indicated that she was not ready, either by calling time or by clearly being in a position where she wasn't prepared to receive serve. The referee either sees that or he does not.

When Shahar first protested, he should have said. "I didn't see her call time, I didn't call time, play on." Asking Sharapova "were you ready" just made everyone look bad.

The other side of this is that a player CAN override a referee. If Sharapova really was not ready, she should have just said "second service" and the referee would have allowed a replay. But a referee also shouldn't put her on the spot to see if she is willing to overrule him.

Still, I like the new Maria avatar...

You see, I am trying to imagine what would have happened if Peer (is her first name Sharapova? Somehing like that)
if Peer would have won that point.
Maria was not signalling to Peer not to serve, so would had Peer intervened that Maria perhaps was not ready?

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:51 PM
Lol, you want Yuri to teach her, basicly if that happened, almost the whole board would hate her.

I would like IMG PR people to teach both Maria and her father how to avoid making innocent things that still may look bad to some people.

Paul.
Oct 19th, 2006, 10:58 PM
You see, I am trying to imagine what would have happened if Peer (is her first name Sharapova? Somehing like that)
if Peer would have won that point.
Maria was not signalling to Peer not to serve, so would had Peer intervened that Maria perhaps was not ready?
no, thats not the point. because maria wasnt ready so if shahar had won the point then maria would have said "hang on, i wasnt ready"

thats what all this is about ;)

streag
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:00 PM
One more thing to mention. In Russian, if you're asked "Were you not ready", and you answer "Yes" then it means you're not ready. I think the incident was at worst a misunderstanding. Umpire said "I checked her, she was ready". And umpire is Swiss, not Russian.

JPhurst
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:01 PM
You see, I am trying to imagine what would have happened if Peer (is her first name Sharapova? Somehing like that)
if Peer would have won that point.
Maria was not signalling to Peer not to serve, so would had Peer intervened that Maria perhaps was not ready?

But that's the point, it is not a question of "imagining" what the person is thinking, or would think.

For all we know, Peer could have aced Maria, and Maria could have whined. Peer could have said "hey, you didn't call time." Or perhaps Peer could have said "second serve, yeah she wasn't ready but I couldn't stop my follow through." Who knows?

The referee (or chair ump, I guess) has to make the call based on what he saw. What he does NOT do is start asking the player "were you ready?" Because he's basically saying "Maybe I screwed up, and I'll change the call IF you ask me to overrule myself against you." You don't ask a player to correct your mistake for you.

KBdoubleu
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:02 PM
Perhaps the umpire was in the wrong then?
Maria supported Peer, confirmed she was not ready:
"were you NOT ready?"
"yep"
I like to take this answer as "yes, not ready"
although really Peer had the obligation to look before serving, just imagine if she had won the point on that serve, it would not have been fair
Therefore I think she should not have it both ways,
if Maria did not signal her to stop, then she should not claim that Maria was not ready, because Maria hersellf could not have claimed that she was not ready if Peer had won that point.


About bathroom breaks, these were genuine bathroom breaks, I think
Even before the Wimbledon final started. She needs - she takes a break.
But they were not very frequent at all. I remember bathroom breaks in USO 2005 where she actually returned afterwards and practically was not able to play, both with Petrova and with Clijsters, she clearly was sick and needed even longer bathroom breaks.
And what about the match with Golovin?
That is the most unfair to her thing of all.
She had already her back to Golovin and was walking towards the baseline when Golovin twisted the ankle, then Maria tried to watch on the big screen in the stadium and that moment was not shown then.
It did not even occur to her that it was not cramps.
We saw on tv what happened but she did not.
How can anybody hold it against her.
BTW, Tati is her friend, she stayed with her afterwards until ambulance took her away

When she almost lost that YEC final to Serena because of inexperience with medical issues of opponents, she learned her lesson, stay ready, stay focused, do not get distracted, do not get stiff.

In my perception Maria is one of the most fair and correct players.
She is always focused, always in the zone, she does not even know what gamesmanship is. You may not be more wrong on this.
She is too naive in that respect I believe.
And she does not allow herself to get distracted with gamesmanship or whatever.
But she is very driven, very tough mentally, not distracted from the main purpose to win, that is what makes her a great champion.
But some people find it to be ruthless or cruel or whatever.
They are all professionals, they have no right to choose that profession and then expect gifts from others.

Again, most shokingly unfair players are Justine and Jennifer in that episode with Serena, because she clearly, undoubtedly new the ball was good.
All her behavior showed that.
After that incident she is dead to me.
If Masha would do something like that, she would be dead to me too.
But I think she is very fair and she is being very unfairly accused

-If she was saying "yes i wasn't ready", then why did she proceed to walk to the other side of the court??

-I found it funny how during several tournaments this year once she fell behind in a match or lost a set she always took a bathroom break or changed her outfit (vs. Li, Golovin, etc.)

-Maria saw Golovin fall to the ground in agony and just looked away, it's a testament to her focus and resolve but what does it say about Maria Sharapova the person?

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:03 PM
Exactly. Every player has the right to argue in his/her own favor. The bottom line is telling the truth. If like said, Maria meant she was "not ready", then she's ok. But if she meant she was ready, then that's the problem. I'm not a native speaker and it's beyond me to judge this.

no, thats not the point. because maria wasnt ready so if shahar had won the point then maria would have said "hang on, i wasnt ready"

thats what all this is about ;)

Paul.
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:04 PM
One more thing to mention. In Russian, if you're asked "Were you not ready", and you answer "Yes" then it means you're not ready. I think the incident was at worst a misunderstanding. Umpire said "I checked her, she was ready". And umpire is Swiss, not Russian.
yeah, but maria speaks fluent english and even has a broad american accent so i dont really think that argument is fair.

i see where you're coming from but i really dont think that's what maria meant. otherwise she would have said in the tone she did and wouldnt have marched off to return in the deuce court ;)

Sharakim
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:06 PM
-Maria saw Golovin fall to the ground in agony and just looked away, it's a testament to her focus and resolve but what does it say about Maria Sharapova the person?Only you can be the judge of that. To me, Maria is a tennis player....period. It's her job to win matches, not to look out for the well being of her opponent, that's the job of the trainer. Everyone has his/her standard, personally I like her the way she is.

streag
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:14 PM
You know, I'm considered to be a fluent English speaker by many, and I can say that I'd answer the same way as Maria did. Very rarely you can find a person who speaks another language equally fluently as his/her native one.

P_Fer
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:19 PM
Maria's actions were not right, but people are over-reacting. Only Maria could generate this much hate

Sharakim
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:20 PM
Maria's actions were not right, but people are over-reacting. Only Maria could generate this much hateCorrection, only overly obsessed tennis fans could generate this hate and I'm not just talking about the Sharapova detractors either.

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:23 PM
Anyway, Maria is in no better position than Jhh was in in the well known incident. So, you either choose to blame both, or to blame neither. Otherwise it will be inconsistency. For my I blame neither. It happened fast and right at the moment, the player wasn't in the mode of making a serious decision. At least they didn't realize it's so big a problem as many consider to be. It could be just a mistake like an unforce error. It's not a big deal. We make mistakes like these, at least I know that I made mistakes like these, only that it wasn't taped and examined by thousands of people.

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:24 PM
Wrong. Remember JHH. She generated even more hate.

Maria's actions were not right, but people are over-reacting. Only Maria could generate this much hate

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:25 PM
no, thats not the point. because maria wasnt ready so if shahar had won the point then maria would have said "hang on, i wasnt ready"

thats what all this is about ;)

Maria did not signal to Peer that she was not ready, so it is also a speculation to assume that she would have protested afterwars.
Although I can hardly imagine her returning that serve successfully
Perhaps she also was not looking at Peer before she got ready which she never did.

But I blame Peer for serving in the first place, she was not supposed to.
I don't really know which one of the three is true, and I don't really care:

1. Peer did not look, she failed to make sure Maria was ready
2. Peer deliberately served because she thought Maria takes too long to get ready
3. Peer deliberately served trying to take advantage while Maria was not yet ready.

Basically, she got what she deserved
You cannot blame Maria for taking too long, because she reacted to the aborted attempt, she moved accros the corner of the court, so she had to return to position.

Andy.
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:25 PM
It was both their faults, Masha had her hand up clearly Shahr wasnt paying attention and served so Masha was like "O well you should have been looking, ill take that". Gosh some of you really do like to blow things up, as if we havent done things like this as well.

P_Fer
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:29 PM
It was both their faults, Masha had her hand up clearly Shahr wasnt paying attention and served so Masha was like "O well you should have been looking, ill take that". Gosh some of you really do like to blow things up, as if we havent done things like this as well.


Agreed

the cat
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:29 PM
Well said MMF. It's much ado about nothing. And Peer even won the game to go up 4-3 in the first set. What's the big deal? Oh I get it it's because it's Maria. :rolleyes:

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:40 PM
This is very biased argument. How can you blame Peer if she didn't even know that Maria wasn't ready? It wasn't a big problem for her not to look, because it's a very brief pause.

The argument that Maria didn't signal won't work, because she's not even in the usual position of recieving a second serve, and she's wiping sweat, and even handing the racket to her left hand. These were clear signs of not being ready.

I think your argument about what she meant by saying "yes" makes some sense. But this is just biased.

Maria did not signal to Peer that she was not ready, so it is also a speculation to assume that she would have protested afterwars.
Although I can hardly imagine her returning that serve successfully
Perhaps she also was not looking at Peer before she got ready which she never did.

But I blame Peer for serving in the first place, she was not supposed to.
I don't really know which one of the three is true, and I don't really care:

1. Peer did not look, she failed to make sure Maria was ready
2. Peer deliberately served because she thought Maria takes too long to get ready
3. Peer deliberately served trying to take advantage while Maria was not yet ready.

Basically, she got what she deserved
You cannot blame Maria for taking too long, because she reacted to the aborted attempt, she moved accros the corner of the court, so she had to return to position.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:41 PM
Here's what happened, fully confirmed by video and audio:

Peer makes an aborted attempt to serve, she makes Maria to move across the corner of the court, then she serves again without allowing Maria to get ready again,
then she complains, wants to have it both ways. She says: ask Maria.
And Maria admits: yes, I was not ready.
The umpire, however, thinks that Peer has to be punished for not allowing Maria to get ready. The double fault stands.

Where is Maria's fault in this?

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:43 PM
Here's what happened, fully confirmed by video and audio:

Peer makes an aborted attempt to serve, she makes Maria to move across the corner of the court, then she serves again without allowing Maria to get ready again,
then she complains, wants to have it both ways. She says: ask Maria.
And Maria admits: yes, I was not ready.
The umpire, however, thinks that Peer has to be punished for not allowing Maria to get ready. The double fault stands.

Where is Maria's fault in this?

That is the most retarded thing i've ever heard, seriously.I'm laughing as I type.

excitement1995
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:44 PM
Maria didn't show any sign of taking the ball. wasn't she holding the racket with her left hand when the ball's in the air?

It was both their faults, Masha had her hand up clearly Shahr wasnt paying attention and served so Masha was like "O well you should have been looking, ill take that". Gosh some of you really do like to blow things up, as if we havent done things like this as well.

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:44 PM
That is the most retarded thing i've ever heard, seriously.I'm laughing as I type.

That is absolutely exactly what happened,
tell one thing I got wrong.

morningglory
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:45 PM
Here's what happened, fully confirmed by video and audio:

Peer makes an aborted attempt to serve, she makes Maria to move across the corner of the court, then she serves again without allowing Maria to get ready again,
then she complains, wants to have it both ways. She says: ask Maria.
And Maria admits: yes, I was not ready.
The umpire, however, thinks that Peer has to be punished for not allowing Maria to get ready. The double fault stands.

Where is Maria's fault in this?
I told you. In English, that "yes" cannot go with a "no"
"Yes, I'm not ready" is not correct English
She had to say "no, I was not ready"

But this is one common mistake a lot of people make in grammar... so in general you should avoid asking questions in a negative...
Had the umpire asked "Were you ready?" there would be no question

IceHock
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:46 PM
Here's what happened, fully confirmed by video and audio:

Peer makes an aborted attempt to serve, she makes Maria to move across the corner of the court, then she serves again without allowing Maria to get ready again,
then she complains, wants to have it both ways. She says: ask Maria.
And Maria admits: yes, I was not ready.
The umpire, however, thinks that Peer has to be punished for not allowing Maria to get ready. The double fault stands.

Where is Maria's fault in this?

All of this is basicly wrong, first off, I don't recall her making Maria move across the court, secondly maria said YES I WAS READY, and i'ver already seen your observations on that, after maria said she was ready, then the umpire says ok then, next point.

njnetswill
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:47 PM
Drama. Can women's tennis be about the tennis. :p

Not saying Maria was right in this. It would have been smarter just to give Peer another serve. :o

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:49 PM
I told you. In English, that "yes" cannot go with a "no"
"Yes, I'm not ready" is not correct English
She had to say "no, I was not ready"

But this is one common mistake a lot of people make in grammar... so in general you should avoid asking questions in a negative...
Had the umpire asked "Were you ready?" there would be no question

I think you are very wrong here, in Engilish double negatives are not allowed

to the question:
were you not ready?

there are only two correct answers:
yes, I was not ready
no, I was ready

Or in short:
yes
no

Now, you are sayng that correct answer is
no, I was not ready
it does not differ at all from
no, I was ready
So then you would get in both cases the same short answer: no
So you see that it is not right.
You still have to be able to use both yes and no answers

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:50 PM
Drama. Can women's tennis be about the tennis. :p

Not saying Maria was right in this. It would have been smarter just to give Peer another serve. :o

That was the umpire's call

Now we are arguing about a point in English language :)

morningglory
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:53 PM
I think you are very wrong here, in Engilish double negatives are not allowed

to the question:
were you not ready?

there are only two correct answers:
yes, I was not ready
no, I was ready

Or in short:
yes
no

Now, you are sayng that correct answer is
no, I was not ready
it does not differ at all from
no, I was ready
So then you would get in both cases the same short answer: no
So you see that it is not right.
You still have to be able to use both yes and no answers
It's not considered a double negative cuz there's a comma between them. Same as "Weren't you at the party last night?"
"No, I wasn't there."

markspot
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:54 PM
It's not considered a double negative cuz there's a comma between them. Same as "Weren't you at the party last night?"
"No, I wasn't there."

Then answer with short "yes" is not possible at all?
if you have to answer "no"
Or you just assume that "yes" means the answer to the OPPOSITE question?
That would be really weird

Ntour
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:55 PM
thats worse than justine she didn't deny it she didn't say anything

but maria did it then blatantly lied about it! I hope she gets forever hated for the rest of her career like justine, but then again she wasn't playing serena so I doubt it

morningglory
Oct 19th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Then answer with short "yes" is not possible at all?
if you have to answer "no"
Or you just assume that "yes" means the answer to the OPPOSITE question?
That would be really weird
"yes" means you are ready, in this case

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:01 AM
thats worse than justine she didn't deny it she didn't say anything

but maria did it then blatantly lied about it! I hope she gets forever hated for the rest of her career like justine, but then again she wasn't playing serena so I doubt it

Maria confirmed when asked that she was not ready, and it was obvious anyway.

Peer had no right to serve at that moment anyway, and she punished herself, she got what she desereved.

sapir1434
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:01 AM
and writing that this is Shahar's fought :spit:
Who writes it? :help:

Rocketta
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:03 AM
It was both their faults, Masha had her hand up clearly Shahr wasnt paying attention and served so Masha was like "O well you should have been looking, ill take that". Gosh some of you really do like to blow things up, as if we havent done things like this as well.

whose fault is it that Maria lied? :o

Why are Maria fans so bent on puting blame on the 'victim' for lack of a better term? I guess it's Shahar's fault for not knowing that Maria would stand straight up, wipe some sweat do a whole bunch of stuff inbetween an errant toss that never left her hands and an actual serve which basically started a few seconds after the messed up toss. :help:

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:03 AM
"yes" means you are ready, in this case

in other words,
there is no difference in English at al between the sentences:

were you ready?

were you not ready?

answers "yes' or "no" are identical to both questions, as if the questions were identical, even though they are opposite?
That what is weird in all this, if it is true, which I find difficult to believe,
perhaps Maria, being Russian, also thinks that "yes" means confirmation of what was asked, not the opposite?

morningglory
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:05 AM
in other words,
there is no difference in English at al between the sentences:

were you ready?

were you not ready?

answers "yes' or "no" are identical to both questions, as if the questions were identical, even though they are opposite?
That what is weird in all this, if it is true, which I find difficult to believe,
perhaps Maria, being Russian, also thinks that "yes" means confirmation of what was asked, not the opposite?
yep that's English for you... weird I know...
but in this language "a slim chance" means the same as "fat chance" so don't worry too much... it's not suppose to make sense

Well as for Maria, she's been raised in Florida... no sense to think that she would make that mistake...

Vincey!
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:06 AM
That's totally a bad fair play by Masha :eek:...but I don't defend her but if Peer hit the ball it's a Double fault same if Maria wasn't ready..no??..but I agree Masha had a really bad fair-play.

streag
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:09 AM
yep that's English for you... weird I know...
but in this language "a slim chance" means the same as "fat chance" so don't worry too much... it's not suppose to make sense

Well as for Maria, she's been raised in Florida... no sense to think that she would make that mistake...
Believe me, if you're supplanted in another language environment @ 9 years old or so you will never speak that language as fluently as your native tongue. Or else you would be a language genius.

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:09 AM
whose fault is it that Maria lied? :o

Why are Maria fans so bent on puting blame on the 'victim' for lack of a better term? I guess it's Shahar's fault for not knowing that Maria would stand straight up, wipe some sweat do a whole bunch of stuff inbetween an errant toss that never left her hands and an actual serve which basically started a few seconds after the messed up toss. :help:


Maria ran across the cort at that moment, she had to return a long way,
in was very nasty of Peer to serve not waiting for Maria to get ready,
and she got what she desereved.
The victim here is Maria, not Peer at all.

And again, I heard Maria's confirmation to the question if she was not ready,
in my opinion she said she was not ready,
but other people say that more correct english is to answer "no"
So we do not know what Maria's intent was, what she had in mind when she answered "yes", because I would have answered yes as well,
I am very surprised that the correct answer is "no" (supposedly)
Maria is russian, so she may think differently,
besides even native americans make so many language mistakes.

The umpire should have asked a direct question, not with NOT in it,
it confuses all the things, but it does not allow you to say that Maria lied, either.
Again, honestly, I would have answerd "yes" as well - confirming the statement which was included in the question.

Rocketta
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:11 AM
Believe me, if you're supplanted in another language environment @ 9 years old or so you will never speak that language as fluently as your native tongue. Or else you would be a language genius.

oh really linguist? Good thing Maria moved to the states when she was 7. :o

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Believe me, if you're supplanted in another language environment @ 9 years old or so you will never speak that language as fluently as your native tongue. Or else you would be a language genius.

Exactly.
I am very surprised that I'm suposed to use NO when the question itself already includes NO, for me it is a double negative - a thing that is supposedly should not be used in English.

So Maria could have understood as I did.
But also even native americans make so many mistakes.
I just feel that a question which itself includes NOT was very unfortunate, a big potential for misunderstanding

Rocketta
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:13 AM
Maria ran across the cort at that moment, she had to return a long way,
in was very nasty of Peer to serve not waiting for Maria to get ready,
and she got what she desereved.
The victim here is Maria, not Peer at all.

And again, I heard Maria's confirmation to the question if she was not ready,
in my opinion she said she was not ready,
but other people say that more correct english is to answer "no"
So we do not know what Maria's intent was, what she had in mind when she answered "yes", because I would have answered yes as well,
I am very surprised that the correct answer is "no" (supposedly)
Maria is russian, so she may think differently,
besides even native americans make so many language mistakes.

The umpire should have asked a direct question, not with NOT in it,
it confuses all the things, but it does not allow you to say that Maria lied, either.
Again, honestly, I would have answerd "yes" as well - confirming the statement which was included in the question.

Let's say Maria completely misunderstood his question and answered it wrong......she did realize it when she was awarded the point, right? Um, did she do anything to fix the confusion or did she just accept a point that she wasn't ready to receive and when asked about made another mistake and gave the wrong answer? :confused:

Dan23
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:17 AM
Far from a world ending or even match affecting incident but Maria :hehehe: wouldnt have hurt to play it again. Anyhow name calling etc over this just shows how childish people will be.

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:17 AM
oh really linguist? Good thing Maria moved to the states when she was 7. :o

You are Ameriican?
Are you also saying that correct answer should have been "no"?
Common sense is that both answers yes and now should mean different things,
and that answers to opposite questions
were you ready?
were you NOT ready?
should be opposete to get the same result.
That is just common sense to me,
And when I heard her say "yep" it did not even cross my mind that it could mean anything else than yes, I was NOT ready.
Because the question was with NO.

Anyway, even if I'm wrong, it is not enough evidence to convict somebody on this potentially ambiguous question, I'm pretty sure that many people even born in America would have made the same mistake - if it is a mistake!
I still don't agree with that.

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:18 AM
Far from a world ending or even match affecting incident but Maria :hehehe: wouldnt have hurt to play it again. Anyhow name calling etc over this just shows how childish people will be.

I'm learning some new English.
But not sure if correct or not :)

Andy.
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Some of you haters carefully watch her every move and live for moments like this. At the end of the day yes she did make mistakes, we all do and the situation should have been handled better by all involved, but its hardly a big issue no matter how much people make it out to be.

faste5683
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:37 AM
He did. And she said she was ready...

I like Maria, but I can't defend her this time. No one can. Peer served a pretty bad DF but saw Maria not ready and Maria had her racquet in her left hand and was looking away... :tape:

Peer screamed C'MON after.


professional tennis:

1. The ultimate responsibility for all of this (and any other rule) falls on the Chair Umpire. The Chair checked the receiver (ready), turned to watch the server and never saw Justine raise her hand.
2. Could Serena have stopped play? Sure, if she did so immediately. However, the Chair would have no recourse since they didn't see the receiver raise her hand.
3. Now, could Justine have acknowledged that she did raise her hand? Sure -- but that's up to her and her sense of sportsmanship.
4. Could the Chair have asked her? No.

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:41 AM
Let's say Maria completely misunderstood his question and answered it wrong......she did realize it when she was awarded the point, right? Um, did she do anything to fix the confusion or did she just accept a point that she wasn't ready to receive and when asked about made another mistake and gave the wrong answer? :confused:

Why do you say she was awarded the point?
She was not, Peer made a double fault, she lost that point herself
I can see a possibility that the umpire did not want to reward Peer by another chance for disregarding Maria's not readiness.

You know, if she were serving, and Maria was ready, and suddenly in the middle of the serve she would straigten up and start wawing her arms,
it could have startled Peer, and repeat would be fair.
But in this situation, Maria was in the same pose standing already, and she even lowered her arm just before Peer tossed the ball, so there was nothing unexpected for Peer, no reason to repeat the serve, especially that she really deserved punishment for serving in the first place when Maria was not ready.

I am not aware of a rule that allows you to practice serving until the opponent becomes ready.

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 12:49 AM
professional tennis:

1. The ultimate responsibility for all of this (and any other rule) falls on the Chair Umpire. The Chair checked the receiver (ready), turned to watch the server and never saw Justine raise her hand.
2. Could Serena have stopped play? Sure, if she did so immediately. However, the Chair would have no recourse since they didn't see the receiver raise her hand.
3. Now, could Justine have acknowledged that she did raise her hand? Sure -- but that's up to her and her sense of sportsmanship.
4. Could the Chair have asked her? No.[/b][/b]

I cannot believe Jon Wertheim made it sound almost as a compilement to Justine. Or was it not about that incident?
Her ability to extract all she can from her game ...

And he accused Maria of "blatant cheating" for seeing (perhaps) that banana her father had in hand, the banana she new she had to eat between sets anyway?

This guy drives me mad.

streag
Oct 20th, 2006, 01:07 AM
oh really linguist? Good thing Maria moved to the states when she was 7. :o
Ever heard of the fact that children already have a pretty solid base personality-wise at the age when they start to go to school? 7 or 9 does not really mean much in the language context. If you noticed I wrote 9 or so and I'm not taking you as a reliable source about the exact age at which Maria moved to US.

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 01:08 AM
yep that's English for you... weird I know...
but in this language "a slim chance" means the same as "fat chance" so don't worry too much... it's not suppose to make sense

Well as for Maria, she's been raised in Florida... no sense to think that she would make that mistake...

There is correct English and there is commonly used incorrect english and double negations is one of more promiment commonly used incorrect things,
People raised in Florida are using them all the time.

And even worse, I often hear things such as "I" used instead of "me"
that is just terrible. I mean, when "me" is used instead of "I", it is somehow acceptable to me, as "me" is sort of informal "I" in one of its meanings, but the opposite - I cannot accept at all.
Such as:
it is difficult for Maria and I to understand that you need to answer "no", and now people are accusing Maria and I for this ...
I can't stand that kind of language, and it is spoken often even by educated Americans. Not to mention "who" used instead of "whom", etc.
Therefore I find it possible that not all people born in Florida would answer a question with NOT in it in the same way, especially that such a question has a built-in trap in it.

IceHock
Oct 20th, 2006, 01:11 AM
There is correct English and there is commonly used incorrect english and double negations is one of more promiment commonly used incorrect things,
People raised in Florida are using them all the time.

And even worse, I often hear things such as "I" used instead of "me"
that is just terrible. I mean, when "me" is used instead of "I", it is somehow acceptable to me, as "me" is sort of informal "I" in one of its meanings, but the opposite - I cannot accept at all.
Such as:
it is difficult for Maria and I to understand that you need to answer "no", and now people are accusing Maria and I for this ...
I can't stand that kind of language, and it is spoken often even by educated Americans. Not to mention "who" used instead of "whom", etc.
Therefore I find it possible that not all people born in Florida would answer a question with NOT in it in the same way, especially that such a question has a built-in trap in it.


Just go bring it up with the grammar police or something.

Knizzle
Oct 20th, 2006, 01:12 AM
That shit was worse than Juju, luckily for Peer it wasn't a FO SF when she's on a 4 slam in a row streak. Sharapova is duuuuuuuttttty.

madame_maria
Oct 20th, 2006, 01:13 AM
Let's say Maria completely misunderstood his question and answered it wrong......she did realize it when she was awarded the point, right? Um, did she do anything to fix the confusion or did she just accept a point that she wasn't ready to receive and when asked about made another mistake and gave the wrong answer? :confused:

i think there's only so much a player can do. regardless of whatever happened, i'm saying that Maria and Shahar had equal blame and responsibility to share. and i think all this dwelling into the english spoken language is redundant.

once the empire has called the score, it means he has made the decision that Shahar lost the point with a double-fault. the score cannot be changed unless the empire decides to change it.

Maria and Shahar didn't fight. they had equal blame, they continued playing, continued to deliver tennis and Maria won eventually. it wasn't a match-ending point on Shahar's part, and circumstances-wise Maria wouldn't have benefitted a lot if she consciously decided that she would "cheat".

i wish that the lightning god would just zap these haters one-by-one. wtaworld.com would be so much more pleasure without them.

markspot
Oct 20th, 2006, 01:20 AM
That shit was worse than Juju, luckily for Peer it wasn't a FO SF when she's on a 4 slam in a row streak. Sharapova is duuuuuuuttttty.

Yes, it was very bad indeed, Peer tried to do a very nasty thing, and she punished herself for that, there is justice in this world after all. Of course the umpire made the right call too. But Peer should have lost the game and the set and the match for this, as it is, this punishment meant nothing....
And she wanted to have another chance after trying to sneak that one in.

Miranda
Oct 20th, 2006, 03:28 AM
please tell me coz i am curious: did the empire ask juju whether she has held up her hand in FO03? some posters said the empire did not ask juju, some said he asked juju and juju said she did not raise her hand, which version is correct :confused:

Nemesis
Oct 20th, 2006, 02:58 PM
please tell me coz i am curious: did the empire ask juju whether she has held up her hand in FO03? some posters said the empire did not ask juju, some said he asked juju and juju said she did not raise her hand, which version is correct :confused:
look here and judge yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb8w5_i6wms

He just looked at her, but didn't ask her with words. You can interprete the "looking to" to your liking:
- hater: he did ask
- non-hater: he didn't ask

Oizo
Oct 20th, 2006, 03:00 PM
sharapova held up pe'er's 2nd serve and then lied about it when pe'er's 2nd serve missed.

outrageously unnecessary; its not like the french open qf or something.

French Open semifinal ;)