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View Full Version : UH-OH! The media ran to Richard Williams with Capriati's remarks


Rayny
Jun 10th, 2002, 03:30 PM
In today's USA Today sports section:

Even when Richard stays out of the spotlight the media will hunt him


They re-cap Capriati's French open comments.

"Venus and Serena refused to respond, pointing to their winning record against Davenport, Hingis, and Capriati in the last two years. Capriati's assertion also ovelooked the fact that her jump to number 1 occurred duing Venus' injury layoff last fall and Davenport's surgery.


"Jennifer is always making excuses," Richard Williams said. "Venus and Serena have beaten all of them, Jennifer ,Lindsay and Martina. But Jennifer gets angry when she's losing and says these things.

"Capriati should have come to the French OPen as a spectator this year. She was going to lose anyway so she should have just come and watched so she could have figured out how to play Venus and Serena instead of looking at the computer game. No one has to destroy Jennifer because she is destroying herself. Until she takes responsibility for herself she is alwyas going to have problems."

Viva
Jun 10th, 2002, 03:41 PM
Lol! He know's how to get the media going. He knows how to provoke people and it's probably just a game to him....he reminds me of my dad actually. :D

Bless him. :)

Serena y Monica
Jun 10th, 2002, 03:41 PM
Well,

Guess they couldn't get Serena or Venus to start a fire so they went to a reliable source.

veryborednow
Jun 10th, 2002, 03:43 PM
really, he ought to just let the tennis speak for itself

persond
Jun 10th, 2002, 03:50 PM
:) However, it was probably better left unsaid.:) :)

Serena y Monica
Jun 10th, 2002, 03:51 PM
VBN

Maybe Jennifer should have done the same, then he'd have had nothing to talk about.

Greenwatch
Jun 10th, 2002, 03:51 PM
He is very right.

When did Capriati gain this right to be a brat ?

Capriati over the last year has been abrasive and aggressive with both fellow players and officials. She has been frequently foul mouthed and is prone to outbursts at the slightest 'thing' that goes against her.

But we are constantly told that how Jen 'is', and its just her temperament.

She is not worth defending.

take the converse picture. If venus and Serena were constantly hurrying opponents on points, constantly cussing officials even on correct line calls, and was deliberately casting aspersions on the nature of their opponents victories, you think the tennis media would have let them get away with it ?

Winner or no winner.

Richard Williams is right on the button.

RAA
Jun 10th, 2002, 03:55 PM
ouch! that is a bit harsh of richard.
he should learn from his Daughters and take the high road, as they have done so well. this is a great moment for him and he should focus on the positive, not the negative.

treufreund
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:22 PM
Actually it's arrogant not harsh. It's ridiculous since Jenn is the only one of two players to take sets of Serena and the one was not Venus.

Ryan
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:25 PM
Ricahrd has been, and always will be, an arrogant moron.

Nimi
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Greenwatch
He is very right.

When did Capriati gain this right to be a brat ?

Capriati over the last year has been abrasive and aggressive with both fellow players and officials. She has been frequently foul mouthed and is prone to outbursts at the slightest 'thing' that goes against her.

But we are constantly told that how Jen 'is', and its just her temperament.

She is not worth defending.

take the converse picture. If venus and Serena were constantly hurrying opponents on points, constantly cussing officials even on correct line calls, and was deliberately casting aspersions on the nature of their opponents victories, you think the tennis media would have let them get away with it ?

Winner or no winner.

Richard Williams is right on the button.

cpngrats, junior member, ur on my ignore list:cool:

Infiniti2001
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:29 PM
I am no fan of Richard's, but someone had to say something... It's just ridiculous that the media and "some" fans overlook everything Jennifer says... Who the *uck cares if she took a set from Serena??? The last time I check , a player need to win 2 sets to win a match... That was so irrelevant is you asked me.

Yes Richard should have taken the high road, but he spoke the truth....

CC
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:30 PM
Oh no!

Pureracket
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:33 PM
Before this thread turns into a nightmarish tirade of insults between fans, remember out of all of this commotion, Venus nor Serena have commented on this.:)

paigery
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:34 PM
WHAT DID CAPRIATI REALLY SAY OFFENSIVELY TOWARDS THE WILLIAMS'? NOTHING. JENNIFER WAS MERELY GIVING A STATEMENT ON THE QUESTION ASKED ABOUT THE SUCCESS OF THE SISTERS RIGHT NOW. AND THERE WAS NO SMUG OR RUDE OVERTONES TO IT. NOW MR. WILLIAMS WISHES TO MAKE A SPECTACLE AND GIVE REPORTERS FUEL FOR A STORY THAT IS TRASHPAIL WORTHY. MR. WILLIAMS IS ATTACKING JENNIFER FOR NO REASON. HE SHOULD TAKE A LESSON AND LEARN HOW TO BE CIVIL. WITH JENNIFER YOU CAN TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, BUT SHE IS A CHAMPION WHO WAS IN THE GAME WAY BEFORE THE SISTERS AND SHE IS STILL A PLAYER WHO CAN AND WILL WIN TITLES. VENUS AND SERENA ARE NOT UNBEATABLE AS HE BELEIVES. MAYBE MR. WILLIAMS SHOULD HAVE BEEN A SPECTATOR HIMSELF, TO SUPPORT HIS DAUGHTERS INSTEAD OF INSULT THEM WITH HIS MOUTH!!

Volcana
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:34 PM
Richard is, has been, and likely will remain a highly intelligent man who does things his own way. He has been very quiet and low key through the French. In fact, Richard Williams has shown comsiderable restraint all year. (When have you heard from him before in 2002?) Only a complete and total idiot, with a supreme disconnection from the real world, would expect Richard to watch other people attack his children and remain diplomatic when questioned about it.

I would hope my own parents would defend me with similar vehemence.

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:39 PM
Richard normally does Venus' and Serena's dirtywork to this is not surprising at all. I just read a sec ago that Jennifer cursed out Billie Jean King and that is another major reason she got the boot from Fed Cup. If you are a lady tennis player and you don't have respect for Billie Jean King, then I don't know who you are going to respect.

Nimi
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Volcana
Richard is, has been, and likely will remain a highly intelligent man who does things his own way. He has been very quiet and low key through the French. In fact, Richard Williams has shown comsiderable restraint all year. (When have you heard from him before in 2002?) Only a complete and total idiot, with a supreme disconnection from the real world, would expect Richard to watch other people attack his children and remain diplomatic when questioned about it.

I would hope my own parents would defend me with similar vehemence.


his daughters attacked?!?
did u even here what Jenny say?!?

SM
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:49 PM
and his tongue rolls

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:49 PM
I think that person means that Jennifer implies that Serena and Venus would not be 1 and 2 if Lindsay and Martina were playing full time. Jennifer forgets to mention that Venus and Serena have wininng records in recent years against Jennifer, Lindsay and Martina while Venus and Serena have been playing part time.
Serena is #2 playing only 12 events. This has not been done since Steffi Graf I think. On the other hand Jennifer has lost all her WTA events the last 52 weeks so maybe some people think she should be more gracious. Maybe the press baited her but she knows how not to answer those drug questions so she should be smart enough to know how to avoid sounding like a sore loser.

griffin
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by anton
Richard normally does Venus' and Serena's dirtywork to this is not surprising at all.

:rolleyes:

Richard Williams is a lot of things, but I doubt a bagman is one of them.

I was and am willing to give Jenn a break on her comments at RG. Not because they're weren't obnoxious - they were, she dismissed their remarkable feat of making the 1 & 2 ranking a family business as luck, timing and possible shenanigans before realizing what she'd said and trying to back off - but because of the context (having just lost a tough match and having been baited by reporters). That her fans would want to do the same is understandable.

But to give Jenn a pass, and then jump on Richard for responding to attacks on his kids is beyond hypocrisy.

Jay
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by paigery
WHAT DID CAPRIATI REALLY SAY OFFENSIVELY TOWARDS THE WILLIAMS'? NOTHING. JENNIFER WAS MERELY GIVING A STATEMENT ON THE QUESTION ASKED ABOUT THE SUCCESS OF THE SISTERS RIGHT NOW. AND THERE WAS NO SMUG OR RUDE OVERTONES TO IT. NOW MR. WILLIAMS WISHES TO MAKE A SPECTACLE AND GIVE REPORTERS FUEL FOR A STORY THAT IS TRASHPAIL WORTHY. MR. WILLIAMS IS ATTACKING JENNIFER FOR NO REASON. HE SHOULD TAKE A LESSON AND LEARN HOW TO BE CIVIL. WITH JENNIFER YOU CAN TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, BUT SHE IS A CHAMPION WHO WAS IN THE GAME WAY BEFORE THE SISTERS AND SHE IS STILL A PLAYER WHO CAN AND WILL WIN TITLES. VENUS AND SERENA ARE NOT UNBEATABLE AS HE BELEIVES. MAYBE MR. WILLIAMS SHOULD HAVE BEEN A SPECTATOR HIMSELF, TO SUPPORT HIS DAUGHTERS INSTEAD OF INSULT THEM WITH HIS MOUTH!!

Gosh

all in CAPITALS

your post made quite a "spectacle" :p

Experimentee
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:53 PM
Richard has always told it like it is, and he gets attacked for it. If Jen didnt want these comments being said she shouldnt have said anything in the first place.

treufreund
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:57 PM
Stop trying to excuse Richard's comments. He was barely even mentioned by his daughters during the fortnight. Oracene, the classy parent, was there the whole time and Richard was probably not welcome since he is a distraction and distasteful. NBC started off their coverage of the finals with this sappy story about a "father's dream" just to play into people's nerves since the man was not even present. And yet not a mention about the low-key Oracene who actually was there. Typical sexism. There are no excuses for Richard's comments. If you read them again they are incredibly insulting to Capriati. Of course, we all know he made comments about Lindsay's weight and Martina needing to saw off her legs. Thankfully Oracene and Richard cannot stand to be in each other's presence so it limits his presence.

Nimi
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Jay


Gosh

all in CAPITALS

your post made quite a "spectacle" :p

:wavey:

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 04:58 PM
Maybe Jennifer can pretend to be gracious and let Stefano do her dirtywork for her! I doubt he would curse out Bille Jean King however.

paigery
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:03 PM
I forgot my capslock was on!

Williams Rulez
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:04 PM
Venus and Serena re out of this equation... that's all I care... ;)

harloo
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:06 PM
Well Richard is back at it again.

Honestly, I knew it was coming. He hasn't said anything for a while now, but I think Jen's remarks pushed him over the edge. I would have to defend my daughters also, because Jen's statements were totally disrespectful.

It's such a shame, and actually I get tired of this Jen thing. However, she is creating the problem all the time for herself. I feel bad for her fans, because she always puts her foot in her mouth. Well, whatever you put out in the universe you get back. Richard is just responding to her negative comments, and with his history we shouldn't expect anything differently from him.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:09 PM
That is such a good point. So Capriati can behave and say what she wants and gets "pass" because thats "just the way she is" but Richard Williams, who only responded to what jen said, is attacked for doing the same thing? I smell hypocrisy also.

And like someone else mentioned, if anyone had the nerve to attack my two daughters like that, well I'm sure I'd have a few words too. Also I am over this, the media baited her into saying this or that. The lady is a grown woman, she must have some kind of reasoning skils. There are other players on tour who dont let the media bait them. Either jen is gullible, naive, or stupid or she really does like speaking her mind and telling it like it is in her opinion, just like Richard Williams.

So instead of treating jen like a two year old who doesnt know any better, why not realize she's 26, an adult, and knows what she's saying when she says it.

In my opinion I think they both should never have said anything, but since they oh well.

Jay
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by paigery
I forgot my capslock was on!

I believe you :)

even though others wouldn't :p

CC
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
Stop trying to excuse Richard's comments.......There are no excuses for Richard's comments. If you read them again they are incredibly insulting to Capriati.......

Sorry for editing you, but I didn't find all of it useful.

It would have been better to take Venus and Serena's example, but some people refuse to turn the other cheek.

That said, Richard is no more wrong than Capriati is. There are some things you just don't say. It is hypocritical to say he's wrong and she isn't. Let's not make excuses for her either, she was incredibly insulting to Venus and Serena.

vw43
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:13 PM
Williams_Rulez: I agree. I am also glad that these comments came from Richard and that Venus and Serena were wise enough and classy enough to let something so petty, in this exciting of a time for them, go.

I agree that a parent is going to defend his/her child. However, it would seem that Richard would defend his children in a more adult and mature manner. Defending doesn't always entail attacking.

Also, harloo, don't feel sorry for Jen fans. We have much to be happy about as do the Williams fans.

:wavey:

Jay
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:14 PM
To be honest, I don't think Richard gives a toss about what the media or anyone else thinks of him.

If he's got something to say he'll say and people can call him all the insults they want and it will have no effect, he'll still say his piece.

Him and Damir are very much the same in this regard, especially if people have bad things to say about their daughters.

But bad things about themselves ? they couldn't give a monkey's bollock

It's all water off a duck's arse to them :)

vw43
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:19 PM
That is such a good point. So Capriati can behave and say what she wants and gets "pass" because thats "just the way she is" but Richard Williams, who only responded to what jen said, is attacked for doing the same thing? I smell hypocrisy also.
______________________________________________

I think it should be pointed out that Jennifer never personally attacked Venus or Serena. I disagree with the people that said she was incredibly insulting. Those who believe that seem to be overtly paranoid. I mean, really, read Richards comment again.

"Capriati should have come to the French OPen as a spectator this year. She was going to lose anyway so she should have just come and watched so she could have figured out how to play Venus and Serena instead of looking at the computer game. No one has to destroy Jennifer because she is destroying herself. Until she takes responsibility for herself she is alwyas going to have problems."

This came from a grown man, whom some poor souls consider a genius. Granted Capriati needs to learn to keep her mouth shut in some instances but nothing she said even compares to Richards insults. Get over it. Stop the hypocrisy now. :rolleyes:

harloo
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
Stop trying to excuse Richard's comments. He was barely even mentioned by his daughters during the fortnight. Oracene, the classy parent, was there the whole time and Richard was probably not welcome since he is a distraction and distasteful. NBC started off their coverage of the finals with this sappy story about a "father's dream" just to play into people's nerves since the man was not even present. And yet not a mention about the low-key Oracene who actually was there. Typical sexism. There are no excuses for Richard's comments. If you read them again they are incredibly insulting to Capriati. Of course, we all know he made comments about Lindsay's weight and Martina needing to saw off her legs. Thankfully Oracene and Richard cannot stand to be in each other's presence so it limits his presence.

First of all Richard rarely attends AO, and FO. He always comes to Wimby and USO. So the notion of they can't stand each other is false. They are friends, plain and simple. Also, his comments may be harsh but wasn't Jen's comments harsh? By now, you should know that Richard is not gonna let that pass, so get over it. I do feel it was wrong to say that Jen is a spectator, but that is Richard's nature.

The fact is that Jen doesn't really care what someone says or thinks of her and her family. Read her article in Tennis magazine form last month, she was the feature. She says what she wan'ts and when you do that, expect for someone to retaliate. Oh well, I hope this doesn't become too much of an issue. Like I said before, whatever you put out in the universe will come right back to you.

CC
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:29 PM
quote: ww43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it should be pointed out that Jennifer never personally attacked Venus or Serena. I disagree with the people that said she was incredibly insulting. Those who believe that seem to be overtly paranoid. I mean, really, read Richards comment again.

"Capriati should have come to the French OPen as a spectator this year. She was going to lose anyway so she should have just come and watched so she could have figured out how to play Venus and Serena instead of looking at the computer game. No one has to destroy Jennifer because she is destroying herself. Until she takes responsibility for herself she is alwyas going to have problems."

This came from a grown man, whom some poor souls consider a genius. Granted Capriati needs to learn to keep her mouth shut in some instances but nothing she said even compares to Richards insults. Get over it. Stop the hypocrisy now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Capriati demeaned Venus and Serena's talent
and achievement , Richard demeaned Capriati's talent and achievement . It's all the same to me.

vw43
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:31 PM
Capriati demeaned Venus and Serena's talent
and achievement , Richard demeaned Capriati's talent and achievement . It's all the same to me.
___________________________________

hmmm...I suppose it would be :kiss:

CC
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:36 PM
Yes. I look with eyes made of red hearts. :hearts:

Cybelle Darkholme
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:40 PM
That is profound! The only thing I can add is that if Jennifer wanted to retain the #1 ranking, she should have beaten Serena in Scottsdale, Key Biscayne and Rome. If Jen wanted to prevent V&S becoming 1&2 she should have won her semis match at Rolland Garros. They did not get to be 1&2 because of Davvy and Hingis absence. They got there becuase Jen was beaten 5 times in a row by Serena!
FROM JONLOTHAN


I think that says it all


Also of course what jen said was a personal attack. You cannot attack someones integrity and not have that be personal and thats what she did by questioning their "strategy" to get to number one and two.

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:42 PM
Richard in the same article said something about that he was coaching and training 2 new Black girls to make their debut on the WTA tour soon. And that the WTA would ban them from the tour. I think he is looking for press and obviously getting it.

CC
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by veryborednow
really, he ought to just let the tennis speak for itself

Hey VBN, he tried, but the tennis allowed Serena to beat it five times straight. If not, then perhaps Serena would not have made it to number two.


A clever response, don't ya think? I like it (If I may say so myself). :rolleyes: :kiss:

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:47 PM
Serena can get to #1 if she does better than Venus in London. For her to be #1 with only 12 events is amazing. She is approaching the Steffi Graf Zone. Some of Serena's forehands were approaching that zone also. Did ESPN show Serens applauding Jennifer leaving the court? I missed that I think. That was very nice of Serena. Also amzaing how Brandi applauded Seles after Venus lost to Seles in MElbourne. That was great sportsmanship. And Brandi always has a smile on her face. It was funny at 6-5 when she pointed 1 finger at Serena and NBC caught her like she was hoping Serena would win, and not VEnus.

TeeRexx
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:49 PM
Iam a fan of tennis players VENUS and SERENA, not necssarily their parents, but Ms. Manners was very uncivil as a player for what she said and most of what she said was not true.

Richard, however was quit true on several points regarding Capriati:

1. She looks for excuses rather than reasons when she fails.
2. A better study of SERENA'S game should have been made by her and/or Stephano.
3. Ms. Manners is already certified as being self destructive (drug abuse, criminal theft, arrest and felony convictions),
4. Ms. Manners has a tendency to refuse to take responsibility for her own actions and inactions.

Essentially a manager or coach or parent is little more than a fan and has more leway in the comments that are made regarding a player.
The player, however, is the direct source of all comments and actions and should be mature and intelligent enough to speak responsibly or not at all.

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:50 PM
There is a really cool pic of Serena in the green dress reaching for a shot in SI mag.

CC
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:53 PM
Oh, when I go to the store I'll take a peek.

I thought Oracene was signalling the ball out when she held up her finger.

paigery
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:54 PM
Where is the malice in Capriati's statement? She doesn't discredit the Williams' She was caught up in the moment and publicly gave an assesment of the situation, caught herself and stopped. But she never said the sisters would not be number one and two without merit. This whole thing is ridiculous and I am out of it, and as usual it is bash Capriati day in GM. Look for any reason to start something. And by the way Jen was never convicted of a felony and her so called record was cleared. !
Q. The Williams family have been saying for like years it was inevitable that the girls would go to 1 and 2. They finally have. Has there been sort of a feeling around the tour that maybe this year it's going to happen; it was just a matter of time?

JENNIFER CAPRIATI: No, not really. I mean, yeah, you've got to give them credit. You know, "inevitable"? There's a lot of things that have happened that kind of made them in this position, 1 and 2. You know, they were pretty good with planning things. I don't know if it was like that. But, I mean, they're just having a good year this year, and we'll see if they stay on top.

Q. You mean things like Lindsay being injured or Martina being injured or things like that?

JENNIFER CAPRIATI: Right, right. I mean, I don't know, it's just kind of funny the way it's worked out sometimes. You know, one plays, one doesn't. I don't know. You would think maybe it was just a little more planning behind that. But, I mean, if you really want your daughters to be 1 and 2, I mean, I guess everyone would kind of do that. But mostly it's just because not everyone is in the game, I think.

Q. So you think if all the elite players were in full health this year, it probably would have taken longer?

JENNIFER CAPRIATI: Taken longer? I don't know if it would ever happen at all. I mean, you know, it's definitely gone in their favor in that regard. So, I mean, I don't know. I mean, who knows. Maybe they would have still been 1 and 2, even if everyone's playing. I mean, it would be nice to see people coming back and really see what happens then.

Q. Do you feel that they planned not to play each other a number of times? Do you think that was part of their thinking?

JENNIFER CAPRIATI: I mean, I don't know. I really shouldn't comment more about that. It just kind of seems like that. You know, I guess they can't really plan it because the way the draw comes out, I mean, they're on opposite sides. What if they were on the same side? Can't really plan those things.

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 05:55 PM
No, I think she was rooting for baby girl!! Venus was also very funny taking Serena's pic out there with the photographers. John McEnore was really annoying and seemed bitter that neither Williams girl would give his Williams/McEnore match the time of day.

CC
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:02 PM
Well, I see it differently. Sure she wanted Serena to win (she even said it), but she wouldn't be so blatant as to hold up her finger for Serena, would she?

vw43
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by cybelledarkholmexx
FROM JONLOTHAN

I think that says it all

Also of course what jen said was a personal attack. You cannot attack someones integrity and not have that be personal and thats what she did by questioning their "strategy" to get to number one and two.

Is questioning a players strategy, personally attacking them?

"You know, they were pretty good with planning things. I don't know if it was like that. But, I mean, they're just having a good year this year, and we'll see if they stay on top."

I mean be honest with yourself. You don't think there was some initial strategy in Venus and Serena becoming the #1 and #2 players in the world? Please. Of course they would not be #1 and #2 with just a strategy alone. They are the best two players, pure and simple. However, don't be naive and don't get upset when someone mentions it, however slightly.


:wavey:

chings
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:02 PM
During this French alone Capriati had made two very stupid
statements about Venus and Serena.
First, this woman has the nerve to question the WTA ranking
system whereas she herself enjoyed the system which made her
to ascend the top ranking on every occasion by default.
She failed to realize that Venus and Serena did not reach that
postion without playing and winning. She played and didn't win
that is while she finds herself at #3.

She knows this and when the press people asked her to comment
on the achievement of the sisters, simply say they deserve it
even if they did not. She went further to cite the absence of
Davenport and Hingis which contributed to the success of the
sisters. Very stupid indeed because Capriati knows that if she
had beaten Serena during the semi, Serena could have not been
#2. So whose fault it is? emphatically Capriati.
Capriati doesn't why Venus and Serena are 1 and 2 in the world
today. And even if she knows will not acknowledge that fact.
Davenport and Hingis present on tour can't stop Venus and Serena for any achievement. They never stopped their first attempt and could not stop this one either. On the other side of the coin, Capriati is been benefited from their absence. In 9th
meeting with Davenport she has won only 2 and it was just
recently she won few matches from Hingis, thank to Venus and
Serena style of tennis.
Richard is right about giving any response to Capriati nonsense. I don't see why so many people on this board are
trying to be abusive to Mr. Williams. I thought we are grown by
one year(Ryan14 to Ryan15) so we have little senses.

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:10 PM
Jennifer said she should be number one if she won the French Open and Melbourne. NEWSFLASH: You need to win more than 2 events in 52 weeks. Also why would the WTA Tour crown somebody who has lost in every one of their events??? This should hire a PR coach before it is too late.

cc, I think Brandi was wanting Serena to win because if not Venus might totatly start to overshadow Serena again. Another funny face from Brandi is when she almost doses off to sleep. almost like "im so sleepy, but I promises Venus I would watch this match"

Cybelle Darkholme
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:10 PM
Is questioning a players strategy, personally attacking them?

questioning someones INTEGRITY is a personal attack. how is that hard to understand?

TeeRexx
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:12 PM
Kudos to: cybelle and anton.

sartrista7
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:12 PM
Richard's comments were far more 'insulting' than Jennifer's. Most here seem to have forgotten that Jenn actually complimented the sisters several times on their achievement and their games before being baited into saying something tactless (and really - 'was it inevitable that you would lose your title and the #1 ranking?' is hardly the sort of question anyone would want to hear after a loss). A lot of Williams fans complain that Venus and Serena's interviews are analysed and over-analysed by people wishing to find something to criticise them over, but isn't this exactly what you're doing to Jenn? As for Richard, he's just being a controversialist. That's no bad thing, but it *is* a little tired now.

veryborednow
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by CC


Hey VBN, he tried, but the tennis allowed Serena to beat it five times straight. If not, then perhaps Serena would not have made it to number two.

A clever response, don't ya think? I like it (If I may say so myself). :rolleyes: :kiss:

I have to agree with both you and Serena y Monica - I do not agree with what Jennifer said, Serena has been on fire this year, and is the worlds best player. Personally, I think Jen was wrong to say that. There are problems with the ranking system, but I don't think it was right to aim it at the sisters. BUT ~ and what the issue here is (in this thread) ~what Richard has said is FAR more offensive and out of order than what Jen said, and if he had taken the high road, Jen would have looked worse. Now Richard looks the worst out of everybody.

And I think he was very very wrong to say that. It's very unfair to personally attack a player, as opposed to a system.

Volcana
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:20 PM
InSaNiTy - No, I didn't 'here' what Jenn said, I read it. I also read the entire article on Richard those quotes come from. It's in today's USAToday

Capriati interview excerpt
Q. The Williams family have been saying for like years it was inevitable that the girls would go to 1 and 2. They finally have. Has there been sort of a feeling around the tour that maybe this year it's going to happen; it was just a matter of time?

JENNIFER CAPRIATI: No, not really. I mean, yeah, you've got to give them credit. You know, "inevitable"? There's a lot of things that have happened that kind of made them in this position, 1 and 2. You know, they were pretty good with planning things. I don't know if it was like that. But, I mean, they're just having a good year this year, and we'll see if they stay on top.

Q. You mean things like Lindsay being injured or Martina being injured or things like that?

JENNIFER CAPRIATI: Right, right. I mean, I don't know, it's just kind of funny the way it's worked out sometimes. You know, one plays, one doesn't. I don't know. You would think maybe it was just a little more planning behind that. But, I mean, if you really want your daughters to be 1 and 2, I mean, I guess everyone would kind of do that. But mostly it's just because not everyone is in the game, I think.

Q. So you think if all the elite players were in full health this year, it probably would have taken longer?

JENNIFER CAPRIATI: Taken longer? I don't know if it would ever happen at all. I mean, you know, it's definitely gone in their favor in that regard. So, I mean, I don't know. I mean, who knows. Maybe they would have still been 1 and 2, even if everyone's playing. I mean, it would be nice to see people coming back and really see what happens then.

Q. Do you feel that they planned not to play each other a number of times? Do you think that was part of their thinking?

JENNIFER CAPRIATI: I mean, I don't know. I really shouldn't comment more about that. It just kind of seems like that. You know, I guess they can't really plan it because the way the draw comes out, I mean, they're on opposite sides. What if they were on the same side? Can't really plan those things.

Richard response excerpt
"Jennifer is always making excuses," Richard Williams said. "Venus and Serena have beaten all of them, Jennifer ,Lindsay and Martina. But Jennifer gets angry when she's losing and says these things.

"Capriati should have come to the French Open as a spectator this year. She was going to lose anyway so she should have just come and watched so she could have figured out how to play Venus and Serena instead of looking at the computer game. No one has to destroy Jennifer because she is destroying herself. Until she takes responsibility for herself she is alwyas going to have problems."

In my book, crediting 'planning' rather than the opponents who defeat you is an attack. It's an attack on your opponent's credibility, and an attempt to denigrate their accomplishments. OTOH, it's only words. Of course, Richard's was only words as well. Drop out, "...Capriati should have come to the French Open as a spectator this year. She was going to lose anyway so she should have just come and watched so she could have figured out how to play Venus and Serena instead of looking at the computer game." and what he said wasn't even controversial.

I actually defended Jenn when her interview came out, and I still do. Asking a player questions like that after a tough loss is rude and not reasonable. But that doesn't mean Jenn gets a free pass. You say nasty stuff in life, you're likely to get a nasty response. And Jenn DID direct comment at the parents, not just the players. "...But, I mean, if you really want your daughters to be 1 and 2, I mean, I guess everyone would kind of do that..."

This exchange seems quite fair and equal to me.

CC
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:27 PM
We could argue all day about the semantics regarding the gravity of insults from either side, but prolonged argument has never been my strong point, so please excuse me. I am therefore going to conclude by saying they were both wrong.:wavey:

Serena y Monica
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:34 PM
It's not hard to understand. What is hard to understand is how Jennifer fans can even come into this thread and open their mouths.

How does one even begin to pretend that Jennifer was not questioning both players ability and more importantly their integrity. Not to mention that she is the one who brought Richard into this with her comment "if someone wants their daughters to be 1 and 2 so badly"

I personally don't give a shit what Jennifer says. She has proven herself to be a laughing stock, and I really do understand that she was probably in a very bad place after this lose, but to excuse her behavior and take offense at Richards...well that's just a bit too much.

vw43
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:40 PM
I wasn't going to go here but I'm feeling feisty.

Tee Rexx stated:

......3. Ms. Manners is already certified as being self destructive (drug abuse, criminal theft, arrest and felony convictions),
4. Ms. Manners has a tendency to refuse to take responsibility for her own actions and inactions.

Tee Rexx seems to perversley enjoy bringing up Jen's PAST problems (that have nothing to do with the conversation at hand) and then ride his high horse throughout a thread.

Since we are mud slinging, Tee, please review Mr. Williams past issues of Spousal Abuse. As we all now, Mr. Williams has never publicly atoned for his actions as Jennifer has countless times over, and is in truth, refusing to take responsiblity for his actions. I don't know anything quite as self destructive as beating up the mother of your own children, whom without, you would be a nobody.

I think a majority of us have summed it up, nicely. Both should have kept their mouths shut but Richard's comments were fair more "insulting" and tasteless and juvenile...but very par for the course of him.


:wavey:

BrianII
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:44 PM
vw43,
You have to remember at the year end championships 3 of the elite players Jen, Lindsay and Serena were present Lindsay and serena made the finals Jen did not .......at the AO open 2 elite players were missing Lindsay and Serena....... when Jen won and thus retained her no1 spot did she question the fact that Lindsay and Serena were not in the draw ...and if they were there she did would'nt have been no1 ..I mean these were the 2 finalist at the last major tournament (or did any other player .question her achievent again no)........I for one don't particularly like what richard said some of it may be true ..but it didn't need to be said .....jenifer initiated this stupidity and richard perpetuated it....but at what point do you and the other Jenifer fans start to hold her responsible for the stupid things she says .... Henin, Clisters, Dokic, Martina Venus and Serena are all younger than her and not one has questioned her achievements . If Iwere Henin or Clijsters or Monica.... players that have actually done something to slow down the ascent of the williams, I'd be wondering what the one player that has been a "quality point" donating slot machine for serena all season long is whining about.

Serena y Monica
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:47 PM
Okay...I'm in.

VW

Richard has never been convicted much less accused by anyone other than the press of spousal abuse.

Jenniefer has been convicted of shop lifting and drug possesion.

I personally think Jenn's offenses are much worse because if not for them...we wouldn't be here.

Beige
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:52 PM
I went to USA Today's site and saw no mention of these quotes.

Weevee
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:52 PM
This is a most interesting thread. Volcana's posts are very good. I love Griffin (the flaming feminist). TR, WR, and Cy said everything I might want to say. I only need Dawn to make this a perfect thread.

sartrista7
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:54 PM
Serena y Monica... domestic abuse is a very serious allegation. It's been reported as fact that Richard abused Oracene. If he was innocent, he could and should have sued the asses off those making the allegations. He hasn't. Deduce what you will.

vw43
Jun 10th, 2002, 06:54 PM
Lmao! That is true denial. Smoking marijuana or stealing a pair of jeans is worse than wife beating....very nice, really.

Also, the only reason Richard hasn't been taken in is because Oracene has enough sense and class to just remove herself from him and not make things public, rather than make matters worse for her children.

Go to thesmokinggun.com and look up Richard Williams. The police report is included.

This is the last I will say on this topic as it is off the point of this thread. You may PM me if you want to carry this further.



:wavey: :kiss:

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 07:05 PM
Oh no! Richard is overshadowing even an all-Williams Final! Did he buy the Rockafellar Plaza yet?:rolleyes: :wavey:

Go Williams
Jun 10th, 2002, 07:05 PM
Well done Richard Williams. Someone really needs to put crappy in her place.

She is a disgrace to the game with her disgusting behaviour and pathetic spiteful comments.

Its so good that we now have someone with some grace/class/intelligence at the top of the game. The sooner that caps is out of the top 10 the better

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by vw43
Lmao! Tha
Go to thesmokinggun.com and look up Richard Williams. The police report is included.


:wavey: :kiss:

I'm going to go to that site and see if I can find Jennifer's mug shot.

vw43
Jun 10th, 2002, 07:07 PM
I'm sure Tee Rexx can post it for you. :kiss:

griffin
Jun 10th, 2002, 07:09 PM
I love it when posters make the people they're complaining about look good in comparison.

And if you really think smoking pot is worse than beating up on another human being (whether or not Richard is guilty), I think I know what happened to Jennifers old stash.

Serena y Monica
Jun 10th, 2002, 07:23 PM
Ummm...Yeah VW,

Being a convicted felon is worse than being accused of anything. Richard says he didn't do this, Oracene didn't say he did.

So let's go over this again...unsubstansiated accused wife beater...convicted felon. One can vote...the other can't....I'm thinking the one who can't vote is worse than the one who can...just an opinion though.

anton
Jun 10th, 2002, 07:26 PM
vw, you forgot to say Jennifer's parents are separated. And I dont think Richard knows any words as foul and nasty as the ones Jennifer uses on the tennis court.