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View Full Version : Clay rankings (subjective)


treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:21 AM
1) Serena (won the French, nuff said. Add Rome and finals of Berlin. Won some tough matches over Jenny and 1 for 2 against Justine. Demolished Venus today)
2) Jennifer (started the clay season off quite rusty but played some great tennis in Rome and play BETTER than Venus did but had the unfortunate luck to be on the same side as Serena. Nonetheless she took sets off of Serena both times on clay)
2) Justine (yes she lost in the first round but was VERY sick, but was playing great in Amelia Island where she SHOULD have beaten Venus. Really played great in Berlin being the only player to beat Serena on RED clay and demolished Jennifer in the last two sets and then followed up with a finals of Rome where she pushed Serena despite a leg injury)
4) Venus (came back on Justine early in the season but really did not play great there or in Hamburg finals. Lost badly to Serena today and had only one tough opponent in a sick Monica Seles)
5) Patty Schnyder ( she played quite well in Charleston beating so many players like Momo, Cappy and Serena. Nearly beat Majoli despite worn out and then played quite well against Capriati in the fourth round of the French)
6) Kim Clijsters (won Hamburg otherwise not too good)

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:26 AM
Now starts the grass season. Expect Serena to play very well, followed by Venus, Justine, Jennifer, Jelena, Lindsay, Alexandra, Daniela and maybe Kim. No particular predictions for who will be the best but Serena seems the best bet. Still expect Venus to really fight for her turf and Jennifer, Justine and Daniela to really shine. Lindsay is just coming back so who knows with her. Jelena also unpredictable as well as Alexandra and Kim who has not had the best results on grass but still respectable. Kim should hit with Lleyton on grass some which would really show her how to get things done on that surface. Kim's got a good serve, good dropshots, good overheads and good movement. All of these should make her good on grass. She also volleys pretty well. Hopefully Monica can get going but she has never shown herself to be good on grass. nonetheless she is too great of a player to ignore. Also don't forget Arantxa and Conchita who do know how to play on grass.

Cam'ron Giles
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:29 AM
"against a sick Monica Seles"? :rolleyes:

Volcana
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:37 AM
Speaking of 'oh-was-she-sick?' I notice you listed Kim and Patty Schnyder as better players on clay than Ms. Seles.

BTW, putting Venus behind two players who CANNOT beat her, on clay or any other surface, is .... actually defensible, in this case. But it LOOKS strange.

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:37 AM
Monica was sick. Ask her fans. That was widely reported BEFORE the match. Also Monica was sick during Rome and did not train properly for the French. She just played quite poorly. Venus did not play well against Monica. She played okay or good enough but not that well. Monica played all out aggression, maybe too much. Venus played a great match against RUBIN who gave Venus the type of ball she wanted. She even struggled in the second set against Fernandez. Venus had an admirable clay court season, no doubt about it. I just think Serena was clearly better and Justine and Jennifer were also a bit better based on the matches I watched. It's my subjective opinion based purely on the type of errors produced by each player, based on their winners, movement, all around play basically.

Cam'ron Giles
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:39 AM
Sorry, I think Marti had the best clay season this year...:o

HEAVYHITTER
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:41 AM
Me too!

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:41 AM
Volcana, it does look strange. You are right about Justine and Jennifer not beating Venus. Jennifer, of course, did not play Venus at all on clay and I am not sure that she would have won if she had. But I would have given her at least a 50-50 chance to finally beat her. I just don't feel that Venus played great tennis on clay. It was good tennis but honestly, she was outplayed by Justine in Amelia Island and even Venus said "she thought she was going down" Venus was mentally stronger and Justine cracked. But then Justine learned from that and beat Serena and played great in Rome so that is why I felt she was more impressive. But it does feel weird to put Venus behind those two. I still stand by that but like I said it's subjective.

HEAVYHITTER
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:42 AM
This makes no sense.

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:44 AM
wow thanks guys! I don't believe you are being sincere at all but a Martina needing surgery playing with three torn tendons with inflammation all over her legs and hips was still able to break Venus five times in two sets in Hamburg and beat Hantuchova in straight sets. She then won the doubles finals 6-1, 6-0 over Hantuchova and Sanchez-Vicario. So I felt proud of her clay court "season" over all considering everything Martina was battling physically and mentally. Honestly though, one tournament does not a clay court season make.

The Countess
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:51 AM
Hey My good friend Treufreund:wavey:

HeavyHitter- You never make sence. :kiss:

I think what Treufreund is trying to interpret it who has had the best Clay Season. An Example- Serena has won French Open and Italian which makes her very good, but Patty right down the end of the line has had formidable wins over highly ranked top players which makes her a standout.

Luv Countess:kiss:

HEAVYHITTER
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:51 AM
Speaking of Martina:

What is she coming back with in terms of firepower. It's obvious that she was injesting alot of power from the power hitters. Probably the reason why she's injured.

I belive she is devoid of a weapon against the top 3.

The Countess
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:53 AM
Thats something else to go into the "bin"

Volcana
Jun 9th, 2002, 03:57 AM
I think the thing between Venus and being really good at playing more the style of clay court artists is sliding. I've read interviews where Venus says she 'doesn't like' sliding. And Venus had a pretty successful caly court season even with taking long strides and big swings at every thing. But it's almost winning in spite ofd the surface. Serena really adapted her game to the surface. She slides, she slices, she comes close enough to patient to spell it, anyway, which for her is a considerable advance.

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 04:01 AM
Martina played with quite a bit of FIREPOWER in SYDNEY and MELBOURNE and TOKYO and INDIAN WELLS against Seles. She lacked stamina. But Martina has much more firepower than you realize. Also she is better than anyone at redirecting powerful shots with a different angle thus getting her opponents power to do the work. It takes perfect timing but she did that 100% against Capriati in Melbourne until she buckled under the heat and against Shaughnessy and Clijsters in Sydney. martina will NEVER have the power of Williams, Pierce, Davenport but she has been working on developing a flatter, more powerful backhand and forehand but due to her injuries could not always plant her feet properly. However in Scottsdale against Serena I saw HINGIS hit one of the hardest hit two handed backhands from a female tennis player. The ball came at serena so hard that it nearly knocked Serena down and blasted the racquet out of Serena's hand. Serena shrieked stunned.. The ball was good. I also saw Martina DEMOLISH TESTUD in Sydney 6-2, 6-4 with VERY powerful forehands and backhands. Martina will never be a power player but she can generate LOADS MORE POWER THAN YOU MIGHT REALIZE. If I could compile highlights of some of Martina's more powerful shots you might even kinda like her since you seems to be a power junkie Heavyhitter.

The Countess
Jun 9th, 2002, 04:01 AM
Venus is so talented like that:bounce:

Luv Countess:kiss:

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 04:02 AM
Hola mi Contesa, meine Graefin.

The Countess
Jun 9th, 2002, 04:04 AM
I cant speak Spanish. But I can speak Maori!

Kia ora Treufreund, Kei te peha koi?

Enohora:wavey:
Luv Countess:kiss:

HEAVYHITTER
Jun 9th, 2002, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by treufreund
Martina played

Enough said.

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 04:14 AM
I did not list Martina amongst the players since she did not have a great "season". She was injured and did quite well considering that. But still does not figure amongst the top six. Neither does Monica IMHO. Monica played well though. Many players played well like Momo, Jelena, Daniela. Just not in the top six IMHO.

persond
Jun 9th, 2002, 05:06 AM
;) Truefreund wouldn't know subjectivity if it came up and "pimped slapped" her upside the head!!!:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: I take that back, 'cause her heads so far up Hingis' a$$, a "pimp" couldn't get close enough to slap her.!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Her posts all read the same and no matter what, Hingis will come out the better/best in the world. This fan thing with her/him has been taken to a whole new level!!!

Firstly, why would anyone seek out a fan for a players' validation?? Hingis fans have no more an idea as to Hingis' illnessess/injuries than the "man in the moon". So, her response to Hingis being ill is to just ask her fans?? And Hingis was only able to play UNTIL her injuries were such that playing became too painful. How can you quanitify or qualify how well she would or could've performed. Her perforrmance was what you saw and what you got. :fiery: :fiery:

I, too, hope Hingis returns and is able to compete at the level she did during her '97 dominance era. The competition is so much improved that it would be interesting to see if Hingis was just that good or if it was that her opponents were just that bad.!!

Come-on-kim
Jun 9th, 2002, 08:17 AM
I think Kim must be ranked higher!!!

She won one of three most important tournaments in Europe!!!! She beat Venus in final, it was the first time that Venus lost a final since 2 years!!! and Venus was the defending champion!!!!

jd4eva
Jun 9th, 2002, 08:57 AM
Funny Jelena doesn't even get a mention. She won a title on clay, semis at Amelia and Hamburg and quarters at the French where she actually took a set of Capriati (unlike Schnyder).

Let's not forget she also beat Patty 6-1 7-5 in Sarasota and beat Justine in Hamburg.

I think this list is anything but objective, should Hingis played, I think that this poster would have put her at 1.

Venus and Serena were the best claycourters, no doubt about it.

[edited coz SM pointed out my mistake :p]

Williams Rulez
Jun 9th, 2002, 09:16 AM
This list is nonsense... Jelena not making the list?

And if Patty is on that list Iva deserves to be on that list too... one title and one finals on clay...

Patty ahead of Kim?! Kim beat Venus on clay... and if you say that Justine was sick at RG... Kim was having an off day!

And no way Jennifer deserves to be ahead of Venus... she didn't win a single clay court title and Venus made it to the finals of RG as well...

SM
Jun 9th, 2002, 10:32 AM
u think this list is not subjective roshan? *puzzled*! its definately not objective ;)

If they don't feel Jelena deserves to be on the list, irrespective of results ,why shouldnt he be able to *think* that subjectively?

Of course based soslely on results(objectively) Jelena made the top 3 or 4 clay courters this season if u add up her totals..and she beat Henin and couldve beat Jen to make the SEMIS of the french had she taken the break point at 4-3 in set1! im happy with what shes accomplished and shed definately make my list ;)

rhz
Jun 9th, 2002, 12:07 PM
My list for 2002

1.Serena definately
2.Justine
3.Venus
4-5 between Capriati, Dokic and Clijsters!

Come-on-kim
Jun 9th, 2002, 01:25 PM
Mine :

1) Serena
2 - 3) Kim or Justine
4) Venus
5 - 6) Jelena or Jennifer

baleineau
Jun 9th, 2002, 01:37 PM
1. serena
2. venus
3. justine
4. jen
5. jelena
6. monica
7. kim

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2002, 06:31 PM
all you people screaming that my list was subjective apparently did not read the title of the thread. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: