1. They're the first siblings in histroy to be no. 1 & 2, a feat which will not be equalled for decades (if ever).
2. They're the most powerful players in the histroy of women's tennis. At their best no player in the hjistroy fo the game can beat them.
3. In recent years, they practically win every tournament that they enter. Steffi only achieved this after Seles' emise, and Hingis' year was 97 when Willix2 had no experience of palynig on the tour.
4. They've set higher standards for the women's game :)
Jun 7th, 2002, 12:13 PM
I would say not _quite_ yet. I'm sure Venus will complete her career slam within the next couple of years and Serena within the next three and then they will both be alltime greats.
And I would take issue with what you said about no player in the history of the game being able to beat them at their best. Of course it's all a matter of opinion but I would say, depending a bit on surface, that Navratilova, Graf & Seles would have had a good chance to beat them when in their prime.
So yeah, what I'm saying is that I have very little doubt that both Venus and Serena will be alltime greats but that they don't _quite_ qualify now.
Jun 7th, 2002, 12:24 PM
'All time greats'. You mean like Wills Moody, Navratilova, Evert, Court, Graf and King? No, let's ot be silly. The only active player who you could debate 'all time greatness' about is Monica, and IMHO she doesn't make the list either.
Serena is still a one-hit wonder. Let her win a few more GS titles first.
Venus, all time, I'd rank with Martina Hingis and ASV. Great players. Notable players. But not hardly 'all time greats'.
Jun 7th, 2002, 12:28 PM
Well said Volcana:)
Lets say either one may "on the path to greatness". Venus is 3 slams ahead on that path.
Jun 7th, 2002, 12:38 PM
Neither qualifies at this moment, although Venus is already on the right track (especially if she wins tomorrow).
Serena still has more to do in terms of GS.
Jun 7th, 2002, 12:43 PM
when is a player considered as great? considering that most player never win a grand slam. how do you call a 1 time grand slam champion?
Jun 7th, 2002, 01:06 PM
Serena? No. If she loses here, does 1 GS title and 2 Finals lost really rank her that highly. Among all-time greats, she wouldn't even be in the top 5 active players.
Jun 7th, 2002, 01:07 PM
The passion that they've created surrounding them definitely makes them a part of the list. They still have a ways to go in terms of tennis accomplishment, however.
Jun 7th, 2002, 01:13 PM
Connelly and Seles are surely all time greats too!
Venus and Serena are certainly on their way.
Jun 7th, 2002, 01:40 PM
I agree with you Volcana.
Jun 7th, 2002, 01:45 PM
Let's be patient. Give them the time, they'll give us the numbers confirming their "all time greats" status.
Already, they embody a great phenomenon on going right now in the tennis world, correction, in the sports world.
Jun 7th, 2002, 02:03 PM
I don't think they need to be in the "all time greats"
yet, i mean, how many GS Serina has?
and Venus too.
they both have time to play til
perhaps they will succeed...
Jun 7th, 2002, 02:15 PM
They're on their way there, but definitely not there yet...
Jun 7th, 2002, 02:19 PM
ITA with Williams_Rulez! One of their major weaknesses though is their consistency..which the all-time greats are known for..but if they keep up this play throughout a whole WTA year without any injuries then you can definitely add them onto that list in a couple of years. :)
Jun 7th, 2002, 04:56 PM
It will be very difficult to dominate the tour because they are with too. They will dominate both but not one of the two, that makes it more difficult to win many GR.
Jun 7th, 2002, 05:10 PM
None of the new generation can compare to the old schoolers....that is many years away!
Jun 7th, 2002, 06:49 PM
Sam L - Maybe King SHOULDn'T be on the list, as opposed to adding Seles and Connolly are arguable. On court accomplishments-wise, the 'big Five' are way in advance of everyone else.
Jun 7th, 2002, 07:17 PM
Sam L - I would agree that but for auto accident and psychopath, Seles and Connolly would likely have won far more. But history is cruel. People forget, even those for whom the past might best resonate. How many Seles fans know the short but tragic life, let alone career, of Maureen Connolly?
Born: Sept. 17, 1934
1951 US Open champ at sixteen
1952 Wimbledon and US Open champ
1953 Grand Slam (at age 18)
1954 French and Wimbledon champion
She had nine GS titles. She was 19 years old. Then came the riding accident that ended her career. How many more GS titles might she have won? But as it happens, she has the same number of GS titles as Monica. The past has its echoes.
She died June 21, 1969. She was 34 years old.
Athletic fame is usually fleeting. Sports History loves numbers. It makes less allowance for circumstance.
Jun 7th, 2002, 08:31 PM
THEY ARE ACTUALLY THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME.
Even Ahead of Navratilova, Steffi, Seles, King, etccc...... These people achievements are in no match with the Williams sisters.
Come on, let them produce a sister to fight them in the final. Only williams can do that......
Jun 7th, 2002, 10:06 PM
To be classified as all time great.....no where near it ---- yet.
Maybe in a few years they will have chops to be included as all time great.
Jun 7th, 2002, 10:21 PM
They're on their way, especially Venus, but not yet.
Venus will probably get on to at least the all-time Top 10 list in a couple years if she keeps adding Slams to her resume. Already, if she wins Roland Garros, she'll have five Slams, which puts her tied for 19th on the all-time Slam winners list.
Serena will also have to win more Slams, but she is at a bigger statistical disadvantage right now. However, I think she'll keep going even a couple years after Venus retires, so she'll probably make up for it.
Venus is knocking on history's door, while Serena has just started walking up the sidewalk.
Jun 7th, 2002, 10:57 PM
They surely can be in the future, but IMO, I wouldn't put a player as all time greater unless she's won at least double digit number of GSs
Jun 7th, 2002, 10:59 PM
Another thing, they can be their worst obstacle to achieving that. Even if they keep their dominance long enough, if they split the slams they will need much more time and are not likely to reach Navratilova, Evert or Graf's levels.
Remember that Steffi Graf won 22 Grand Slam, in a period of 12 years, take out 2 because of injuries and you still have 10 years, playing at top level, that's not too easy to achieve.
Jun 7th, 2002, 11:05 PM
The sisters may or may not ever statistically be rated one of the all time greats. But one thing is for sure they changed how the game of tennis is played. They raised the bar. I like to think of them maybe not as all time greats as far as slams are concerned. But rather pioneers, with all time great games. For years to come their games will be emulated, perfected on. Hingis may retire as one of the all time greats, but it will be Venus and Serena's games, young people will be practicing. :cool:
Jun 13th, 2002, 03:13 PM
Hi everyone - I agree with most points except that possibly it will be more difficult for the Williams sisters to achieve as many slams as Graf, Navratilova etc., not because they're inconsistent, but because the women in say the top 5, play at a much higher standard that in days past. Therefore, I think that perhaps power=greatness. For example, could Navratilova have handled Venus' serve on a good day on grass? Probably wrong, I don't know...
See ya for now :)
Jun 13th, 2002, 03:58 PM
THEY ARE BOTH WAY AHEAD OF NAVRATILOVA, KING, STEFFI, EVERT AND MONICA.
NO ONE WILL SURPASS THEIR MEDIA RECORDS!!!!!
Jun 13th, 2002, 04:01 PM
not quite there yet, I agree. Venus is much closer than Serena.
Time only will tell... but I'm very optimistic!
Jun 13th, 2002, 04:05 PM
Everybody knows that if Seles wasn't stabbed she would have much more then 9 grandslams and Steffi would have had less. I know that some of you just like to look at the numbers, but the stabbing IS A FACT and it's a shame that some of you dismiss it. Monica is as big as a champion as Steffi, Navratilova and Evert. If these players were stabbed during their prime, they would have never acheived what they have. Chris Evert has even said several times that Monica and Steffi would've probably ended with similar grandslam wins just like she did with Navratilova. Other well respected people have said that too including Pam Shriver, Mary Corillo, Bud Collins, etc. Monica is one of the all-time greats.
As for Hingis and Venus, they are approaching that status. Maybe if they win at least 7 slams total. As for Serena she still has some work to do...
Jun 13th, 2002, 04:10 PM
at least Serena is no one hit wonder anymore :cool:
Jun 13th, 2002, 05:17 PM
they're on their way...along with several of the other "younger generation" stars.