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tennisbum79
Aug 25th, 2006, 04:33 AM
Israeli reservists protest, call for resignationsPosted 8/23/2006 11:11


By Yaakov Katz, Special for USA TODAY

JERUSALEM — Hundreds of Israeli army reservists set up a tent city outside the prime minister's office Wednesday to protest what they consider poor management of the war in Lebanon.
Protesters held signs calling for the resignations of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Amir Peretz and the military's chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz.

Israel went to war in Lebanon against the Hezbollah guerrillas on July 12 after the abduction of two Israeli army reservists. The war ended Aug. 14 with a United Nations-brokered cease-fire.

In the aftermath, some reservists have complained that Israel lost 118 soldiers, and Hezbollah is still functioning, its leadership intact.

Daniel Damboritz, a 28-year-old paratrooper reservist, says troops thought their objectives were uncertain. "Everything was chaotic," Damboritz says. "Missions that we received were changed constantly, and we found ourselves sometimes with orders that were unclear."

Ephraim Kam, deputy head of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv and a former colonel in military intelligence, agrees. "The military brass kept on changing the orders to the soldiers, in some cases several times a day," he says. "This led to the major loss of life."

Olmert acknowledged "failings and shortcomings" in an emotional speech to the Israeli parliament last week. He promised a thorough examination of how the war was conducted.

On Monday, though, he said, "I won't play this game, the game of beating ourselves up."

Some critics are demanding a broad state inquiry. Peretz has set up a commission to investigate the military's management of the war. Olmert says he is considering supporting a state inquiry.

"There is no doubt that there were many mistakes," Kam says.

Some emergency warehouses were empty or stocked with unusable equipment, and reservists lacked proper training in Hezbollah style warfare, he says.

Brig. Gen. Danny Van Buren, chief reservist officer, says, "There is no doubt that we will need to invest more resources in equipment and training for reservists."

Kam says Israel underestimated Hezbollah. For example, he says, the military was unaware that Hezbollah had created an extensive system of underground bunkers where guerrilla fighters hid during Israeli airstrikes.

"There was an expectation that the war would end sooner and that Israel would be more successful," Kam says. "That didn't happen, partially because the enemy was underestimated." Moshe Arens, a former Israeli defense minister, called the outcome of the war a "defeat for Israel" that requires Olmert's resignation.

"The loss of the war has reversed Israel's deterrent posture, which took close to 60 years to build," Arens says. "This government needs to go, since the major responsibility lies in the government, which gave the wrong orders to the military."

He says Israel should not have waited to launch a ground offensive. "There was wishful thinking that Hezbollah could be finished from the air," Arens says. "The major mistake was that a ground offensive was not launched the second day of the war, and in the meantime a quarter of the country was destroyed."

David Siegel, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington, says the war did not end in defeat of Israel. "The aim was to achieve diplomatic goals that we hope very much will be achieved through Resolution 1701."

U.N. Resolution 1701 requires the Lebanese army to take control of southern Lebanon and enforce an arms embargo on Hezbollah with the help of international forces.

Contributing: The Associated Press

Source:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-08-23-israel-protest_x.htm


My Opinion:
Apparently, the soldiers do not think they won the war since their primary goal for going to war, which was to free the the 2 soldiers
abducted by Hezbollah was not attained.
Yet they lost 118 soldiers, and has the repuation of their as a strategic, tactical, efficient and ethical fighting force bruised.

RVD
Aug 25th, 2006, 07:44 AM
Israeli reservists protest, call for resignationsPosted 8/23/2006 11:11


By Yaakov Katz, Special for USA TODAY

JERUSALEM — Hundreds of Israeli army reservists set up a tent city outside the prime minister's office Wednesday to protest what they consider poor management of the war in Lebanon.
Protesters held signs calling for the resignations of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Amir Peretz and the military's chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz.

Israel went to war in Lebanon against the Hezbollah guerrillas on July 12 after the abduction of two Israeli army reservists. The war ended Aug. 14 with a United Nations-brokered cease-fire.

In the aftermath, some reservists have complained that Israel lost 118 soldiers, and Hezbollah is still functioning, its leadership intact.

Daniel Damboritz, a 28-year-old paratrooper reservist, says troops thought their objectives were uncertain. "Everything was chaotic," Damboritz says. "Missions that we received were changed constantly, and we found ourselves sometimes with orders that were unclear."

Ephraim Kam, deputy head of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv and a former colonel in military intelligence, agrees. "The military brass kept on changing the orders to the soldiers, in some cases several times a day," he says. "This led to the major loss of life."

Olmert acknowledged "failings and shortcomings" in an emotional speech to the Israeli parliament last week. He promised a thorough examination of how the war was conducted.

On Monday, though, he said, "I won't play this game, the game of beating ourselves up."

Some critics are demanding a broad state inquiry. Peretz has set up a commission to investigate the military's management of the war. Olmert says he is considering supporting a state inquiry.

"There is no doubt that there were many mistakes," Kam says.

Some emergency warehouses were empty or stocked with unusable equipment, and reservists lacked proper training in Hezbollah style warfare, he says.

Brig. Gen. Danny Van Buren, chief reservist officer, says, "There is no doubt that we will need to invest more resources in equipment and training for reservists."

Kam says Israel underestimated Hezbollah. For example, he says, the military was unaware that Hezbollah had created an extensive system of underground bunkers where guerrilla fighters hid during Israeli airstrikes.

"There was an expectation that the war would end sooner and that Israel would be more successful," Kam says. "That didn't happen, partially because the enemy was underestimated." Moshe Arens, a former Israeli defense minister, called the outcome of the war a "defeat for Israel" that requires Olmert's resignation.

"The loss of the war has reversed Israel's deterrent posture, which took close to 60 years to build," Arens says. "This government needs to go, since the major responsibility lies in the government, which gave the wrong orders to the military."

He says Israel should not have waited to launch a ground offensive. "There was wishful thinking that Hezbollah could be finished from the air," Arens says. "The major mistake was that a ground offensive was not launched the second day of the war, and in the meantime a quarter of the country was destroyed."

David Siegel, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington, says the war did not end in defeat of Israel. "The aim was to achieve diplomatic goals that we hope very much will be achieved through Resolution 1701."

U.N. Resolution 1701 requires the Lebanese army to take control of southern Lebanon and enforce an arms embargo on Hezbollah with the help of international forces.

Contributing: The Associated Press

Source:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-08-23-israel-protest_x.htm


Apparently, the soldiers do not think they won the war since their primary
goal for going to war, which was to free the the 2 soldiers
abducted by Hezbollah was not attained. Yet they lost 118 soldiersWhoa! I recall many here on this board boasting about the power and might of the Israeli military. :haha: I wonder what they think now? But yeah, it was obvious that Israel lost this war. But more than that, they looked to be the evil terrorists throughout the entire ordeal. Not saying that they were. Just that they gave a very strong impression of the sort.
This is what happens when you fight Bush-Style. :lol: :crazy:
Oh and real smart of them to lose 118 soldiers over two damn kidnaped reservists. And where the heck was the pre-war intelligence?
Absolutely brilliant. :rolleyes:

tennisbum79
Aug 25th, 2006, 12:55 PM
This also gave Iran, which provide arm to Hezbollah and sent officers to train its fighter a huge influence they did not have before.

Have you noticed how since then, Iran has multiplied its war games on sea and land?

Lord Nelson
Aug 25th, 2006, 01:03 PM
They did not go to war because of the 2 soldiers but because of the rocket attacks that were used now and then by Hezbollah against Israel. The war was a success becasue since then Hezbiollah has not fired any more rockets due to international pressure, Lebanon will send troops to Southern Lebanon and UN tropps will do peace making instead of the inefficient peace keeping. Sure Hezbolah will still keep its weapons but there won't be any more stomach for now to send rockets again to Israel. As for the Israeli reservists, they are allowed to protest unlike the regular army. It does not mean anything though. Most Israelis supported the attack.

tennisbum79
Aug 25th, 2006, 01:18 PM
The IDF has also lost its aura of invicibility.

Instead, it has been replaced with that of unimaginative field commanders, who direct their air force to bomb the same targets over and over again; who kill many civlians , including elderly and children sleeping or fleeing the ravage or at funerals.

tennisbum79
Aug 25th, 2006, 01:23 PM
On the other hand, this protest show how Israeli society is more mature that others, to some extent. I do not think in the US, you could see soldiers protest without being treated as traitors or/and giving comfort to the enemy.

Isarel always has had this healthy deabte tradition, with the exception of its Arab minority of course

Hulet
Aug 25th, 2006, 03:30 PM
I didn't know they lost 118 soldiers, is that right?