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Volcana
Aug 19th, 2006, 02:01 PM
You can read this as 'How evil terrorists fool people into believing they're not', or 'why some people support hezbollah'. Take your pick.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/08/19/with_speed_hezbollah_picks_up_the_shovel/

With speed, Hezbollah picks up the shovel
Group's engineers, funds pour into war torn Lebanon
By Thanassis Cambanis, Globe Staff *|* August 19, 2006

BEIRUT -- Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah's grand promises to rebuild Lebanon began to materialize at Shahed High School yesterday, in the form of neat packs of $12,000 in US dollars handed without ceremony to people displaced from their homes.

``I like Hezbollah more and more," said Riyadh Nasser, 53, as he waited in a south Beirut suburb for the money from the Shi'ite Islamist movement. The money is meant to pay for a year's rent and new furniture, until his original home can be rebuilt.
Glossy posters of Nasrallah and the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, surrounded Nasser in the high school classroom-turned-branch office for Construction Jihad, as Hezbollah calls its engineering department.
Lebanon's government is still talking about its own reconstruction plan, but Hezbollah has already flexed its organizational muscle to deploy heavy machinery, hundreds of engineers, and thousands of workers across the country, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and in the process leaving the government looking flat-footed.
Flush with cash that it says comes from Iran, Syria, and other donors, including Islamic charities and Shi'ite groups, Hezbollah was able to hire contractors and give money to the displaced even before the shooting stopped. The donor largesse has enabled Hezbollah to plan for reconstruction with a budget party officials described as ``without limit." Meanwhile, Lebanon's debt-saddled government is still seeking reconstruction financing from Western and Arab donors.
Nasrallah promised when a cease-fire halted the monthlong war on Monday that the ``Party of God," which led Lebanon into the conflict with a cross-border raid into Israel, would also lead the reconstruction effort.
Through the first week of the cease-fire, the intensive Hezbollah effort has underscored the group's speed and strength relative to the central government's plodding bureaucracy. With its urgent efforts, the group also signaled to Lebanese that it was prepared to assert itself in the country's postwar political dynamic.
``The Lebanese state takes three months to bring help. The United Nations takes three years. Hezbollah is there the next day," said Timur Goksel, who worked as a liaison officer in Lebanon between Hezbollah and the United Nations in Lebanon for more than a decade and knows the group intimately.
While bombs were still falling, Hezbollah bulldozers were already clearing debris from roads and paths around craters. Then, within hours of the cease-fire, engineers from Hezbollah's public works department began taking inventory of the destroyed homes, offices, roads and infrastructure of Beirut and southern Lebanon.
By the end of last week, they had already moved into the next phase, tearing down half-destroyed buildings and carting rubble to the edge of towns and neighborhoods.
``As we won the war with the Israelis, we will win this battle also," architect Khodor Baalbaky, 24, said on Thursday afternoon as he picked his way past one of hundreds of destroyed apartment blocs in southern Beirut.

Baalbaky noted every damaged apartment or shop on a sheaf of plans in a pink binder. Around him construction crews shoveled rubble out of the way to begin an accelerated effort that Baalbaky thinks will rebuild most private homes within a few months.

Hezbollah defines itself as a militant resistance movement; the United States and Israel consider it a terrorist organization that is bent on destroying Israel. But Hezbollah has distinguished itself from similar groups in the region by the efficiency of its public services for its Shi'ite constituents.
The group's reconstruction effort serves another aim as well -- to discredit the secular government, whose leaders have criticized Nasrallah for dragging the whole country into a war only Hezbollah wanted.
``We have to take care of the people who stood by our side in this crisis as quickly as possible," said Abou Ahmed, 45, the Hezbollah official in charge of reconstruction in the heavily bombed southern suburbs of Beirut, where hundreds of thousands of Shi'ite Hezbollah supporters live. Like many senior Hezbollah cadres, he would only be identified by his nickname.
He handled a crush of volunteers, contractors, and displaced people submitting claims yesterday at a makeshift Hezbollah help center in borrowed space in a computer training institute. Hezbollah officials processed papers, while Abou Ahmed harangued engineers and contractors over the phone.
Hezbollah has started distributing grants -- usually $12,000 -- and plans by the end of another week to have given awards to every family of the thousands in Beirut's southern suburbs who the group says need temporary housing. The organization also plans by the end of next week to finish a house-by-house assessment of every damaged and destroyed dwelling in the country.
Abou Ahmed's desk was covered with a detailed map marking every building in southern Beirut. Destroyed buildings were marked in red, partially damaged buildings in green.
A cellphone pressed to each ear, he yelled at one volunteer to push for contractors to submit proposals immediately; on the other phone, he told a man named Mohammed that he could make his own repairs and get reimbursement from Hezbollah, or he could wait two days for a Hezbollah crew to come to his home.
``Our concern is that life gets back to normal," he said.
Lebanon's government, meanwhile, has scurried to present its own reconstruction plan, but its response has been markedly slower than Hezbollah's.
``We are thinking, we are laying the ground for a housing project which would help people rebuild the damaged homes," said Nayla Mouawad, Lebanon's minister of social affairs. ``We are here."
Hezbollah has kicked off its reconstruction program with a heavy dose of propaganda. In areas close to the international media, they've placed showy red English signs atop piles of rubble reading ``Trademark: Made in USA." In Beirut and in southern towns cities like Tyre, Hezbollah activists have claimed credit for the work of construction crews actually dispatched by the government's civil defense service.
Sheik Nabil Kawouk, the Hezbollah official in charge of southern Lebanon, thanked Iran and Syria as he stood atop a destroyed building in a suburb of Tyre.
``This triumph is the triumph of all Lebanon," he said. ``We will rebuild our country even better than it was before."
In southern Beirut, signs taped to chunks of concrete and demolished houses directed people to Hezbollah offices where they could submit financial claims, with detailed instructions about the necessary documentation. A loudspeaker blared a martial Hezbollah song with a zippy tune: ``America, America, you're the great Satan," the chorus said.
It takes Hezbollah only three days to process the individual grant requests.
In a country where the per capita income is $6,200, Hezbollah's $12,000 award is an impressive brick of cash.
In another classroom at Shahed High School, a brother and sister beamed as a Hezbollah member handed them $12,000 in new American bills.
``I'm shocked they were able to get this together so fast," said the sister, Rima Oweidat, 26. ``I feel that Hezbollah is the government. They protect us."

"Topaz"
Aug 19th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Lebanon's government is still talking about its own reconstruction plan, but Hezbollah has already flexed its organizational muscle to deploy heavy machinery, hundreds of engineers, and thousands of workers across the country, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and in the process leaving the government looking flat-footed.
...
Through the first week of the cease-fire, the intensive Hezbollah effort has underscored the group's speed and strength relative to the central government's plodding bureaucracy. ...
Hezbollah has started distributing grants -- usually $12,000 -- and plans by the end of another week to have given awards to every family of the thousands in Beirut's southern suburbs who the group says need temporary housing. The organization also plans by the end of next week to finish a house-by-house assessment of every damaged and destroyed dwelling in the country....
The Lebanese state takes three months to bring help. The United Nations takes three years. Hezbollah is there the next day," said Timur Goksel, who worked as a liaison officer in Lebanon between Hezbollah and the United Nations in Lebanon for more than a decade and knows the group intimately.
...
Baalbaky noted every damaged apartment or shop on a sheaf of plans in a pink binder. Around him construction crews shoveled rubble out of the way to begin an accelerated effort that Baalbaky thinks will rebuild most private homes within a few months.
...
"We are thinking, we are laying the ground for a housing project which would help people rebuild the damaged homes," said Nayla Mouawad, Lebanon's minister of social affairs.
Hmm... This makes me think of New Orleans and the Katrina victims who after a year haven't seen much in terms of reconstruction.

Volcana
Aug 19th, 2006, 04:46 PM
Hmm... This makes me think of New Orleans and the Katrina victims who after a year haven't seen much in terms of reconstruction.What a rather painful observation.

Sam L
Aug 20th, 2006, 01:35 AM
They are doing a lot of good things for Lebanese muslims. Good for them. But Hezbollah is still a terrorist group. Fact.

Fingon
Aug 20th, 2006, 04:55 AM
just a thought,

but Hezbollah has already flexed its organizational muscle to deploy heavy machinery, hundreds of engineers, and thousands of workers across the country, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and in the process leaving the government looking flat-footed.
...
Through the first week of the cease-fire, the intensive Hezbollah effort has underscored the group's speed and strength relative to the central government's plodding bureaucracy. ...
Hezbollah has started distributing grants -- usually $12,000 -- and plans by the end of another week to have given awards to every family of the thousands in Beirut's southern suburbs who the group says need temporary housing. The organization also plans by the end of next week to finish a house-by-house assessment of every damaged and destroyed dwelling in the country....

where does the money come from? obviously Hezbollah seems to have more resources than the Lebanese government, just wondering.

Fingon
Aug 20th, 2006, 04:55 AM
another thought.

The Italian maffia has helped a lot of people ...

Sam L
Aug 20th, 2006, 05:15 AM
another thought.

The Italian maffia has helped a lot of people ...

Fingon, I've already been through this with Volcana and he's already lost to the argument. He knows it. But he insists that Hezbollah is in the Lebanese government and they do good acts and therefore we should take them seriously.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 20th, 2006, 06:16 AM
You can read this as 'How evil terrorists fool people into believing they're not', or 'why some people support hezbollah'. Take your pick.

Nobody ever said that "evil terrorists" didn't know how to treat their own.

Jennifer North
Aug 20th, 2006, 02:42 PM
With speed, Hezbollah picks up the shovel
Group's engineers, funds pour into war torn Lebanon
By Thanassis Cambanis, Globe Staff *|* August 19, 2006

BEIRUT -- Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah's grand promises to rebuild Lebanon began to materialize at Shahed High School yesterday, in the form of neat packs of $12,000 in US dollars handed without ceremony to people displaced from their homes.

``I like Hezbollah more and more," said Riyadh Nasser, 53, as he waited in a south Beirut suburb for the money from the Shi'ite Islamist movement. Glossy posters of Nasrallah and the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, surrounded Nasser in the high school classroom-turned-branch office for Construction Jihad, as Hezbollah calls its engineering department.
Lebanon's government is still talking about its own reconstruction plan, but Hezbollah has already flexed its organizational muscle to deploy heavy machinery, hundreds of engineers, and thousands of workers across the country, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and in the process leaving the government looking flat-footed.

Parts of a larger article by Trudy Rubin, for the Philadelphia Inquirer:

Israel apparently believed a massive bombing campaign that smashed Lebanon's infrastructure as well as Hezbollah targets would destroy the guerrillas and turn the Lebanese public against them. The White House gave this strategy the green light, which proved to be a major blunder. The air raids did not destroy Hezbollah. The terrorist/political group emerged stronger in the region and at home, where the bombing generated fury toward Israel even among Lebanese who detest Hezbollah.

Lebanon's government, while weak, was the poster child for President Bush's campaign to advance democracy in the region. Prime Minister Fuad Saniora, and several of its political parties, want a democratic state and might have faced Hezbollah down had Bush and Israel given them some backing. Sources in Saniora's party said that, had Israel confined a strong air and ground attack to the south, Hezbollah's base, his government would have pressured Hezbollah to pull back from the border and disarm. Indeed, Saniora got Hezbollah's agreement to pull back from Lebanon's south weeks ago, but the White House ignored Saniora in seeking a knockout blow against the guerrillas. It backed a continued Israeli bombing campaign that destroyed Lebanese infrastructure and undercut Saniora, while failing to destroy Hezbollah. Now the Lebanese economy is destroyed, its government broke, while Hezbollah has pledged to rebuild 15,000 bombed apartments in Shiite suburbs. If had to tell who won this war militarly, Hezbollah has clearly emerged as the political winner of this affair.


Nobody ever said that "evil terrorists" didn't know how to treat their own.

what a callous observation, honey, because of course all of the Lebanese Shiite population can be equalled to "evil terrorists" by your sweeping generalization...

Lord Nelson
Aug 20th, 2006, 09:14 PM
Hezbollah is evil and not 'evil'. If Nazis are evil, if facists are evil than so are islamofacists like Hezbollah, Hamas and Al queda. If those 3 are not evil then neither are European facists.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 21st, 2006, 01:57 AM
what a callous observation, honey, because of course all of the Lebanese Shiite population can be equalled to "evil terrorists" by your sweeping generalization...

Because that is totally what I meant, of course. Honey.

Volcana
Aug 21st, 2006, 02:02 AM
just a thought,


where does the money come from? obviously Hezbollah seems to have more resources than the Lebanese government, just wondering.Saudi Arabia, the UAE, China, Iran, Syria, Russia. A ton of sources that don't want it known that they're funding Hezbollah. I'm sure they don't keep it under a mattress.

The 'new American bills' line makes me wonder if I'm wrong though.

Volcana
Aug 21st, 2006, 02:17 AM
Hezbollah is in the Lebanese governmentThey are.

and they do good actsWhich they do. See the article at the start of the thread.

and therefore we should take them seriously.Actually, my arguement isn't one of casuality. Hezbollah is highly organized, well supported and lethal. That is why they should be taken seriously. I believe the IDF just found out what NOT taking them seriously could lead to. One hell of a lot of Israelis are more than a little pissed about how this 'war' was run. Even the Olmert administration is running an investigation (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525909966&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull).

If committing terrorists acts makes you a terrorist organization, then the government of Israel is a terrorist organization. It happens that to me, reality is more complex than that. Hezbollah and the government of Israel have both committed acts I consider terrorism. I believe you've seen enough reports of the IDF bombing ambulances, hospitals and aid convoys in the last month that I don't have to reiterate them.

Does that make the government of Israel a terrorist organization? Or simply an organization that commits some terrorist acts among some (perhaps many) benign ones?

I'm just trying to apply an object standard to both sides, based on their actions, NOT what they SAY are their reasons.

Volcana
Aug 21st, 2006, 02:20 AM
Nobody ever said that "evil terrorists" didn't know how to treat their own.And in large parts of the world, Israel and the USA would be the perfect examples of those "evil terrorists". Yet, shockingly, despite residing in the USA, I don't consider myself an "evil terrorist". Go figure.

Volcana
Aug 21st, 2006, 02:29 AM
Hezbollah is evil and not 'evil'. If Nazis are evil, if facists are evil than so are islamofacists like Hezbollah, Hamas and Al queda. If those 3 are not evil then neither are European facists.Been listening to Limbaugh again? :) 'islamofacist' is, of course, the buzzword of the 'neo-cons', and right wing radio. But it doesn't mean anything.

Fascism is, classically, the marriage of government and corporate interests, a description that fits the Bush administration perfectly. (Wow. Having a history professor for a father does have benefits. I"ll have to tell him.) So permit me to make a minor substitution to your quote.

"If Nazis are evil, if the Bush administration is evil than so are islamofacists like Hezbollah, Hamas and Al queda."

If 'islamofascist' wasn't a madeup term to try to bolster American support for Bush's failed war of aggression in Iraq, you might have something there. I don't think much of the Bushies either.

Lord Nelson
Aug 21st, 2006, 11:50 AM
Been listening to Limbaugh again? :) 'islamofacist' is, of course, the buzzword of the 'neo-cons', and right wing radio. But it doesn't mean anything.

Fascism is, classically, the marriage of government and corporate interests, a description that fits the Bush administration perfectly. (Wow. Having a history professor for a father does have benefits. I"ll have to tell him.) So permit me to make a minor substitution to your quote.

"If Nazis are evil, if the Bush administration is evil than so are islamofacists like Hezbollah, Hamas and Al queda."

If 'islamofascist' wasn't a madeup term to try to bolster American support for Bush's failed war of aggression in Iraq, you might have something there. I don't think much of the Bushies either.
Actually you are right, the term islamo facist is not suitable since it may imply that islam is a facist religion which was not my intention. But al queda and Hamas are certainly facist and facism can spring up anywhere in the world. So caling al queda and co. facist is good enough....

Hezbollah is better than the wahhabist groups. So maybe that group is not facist since it at least on paper tries to get along with the sunnis and Christians of Lebanon.

samsung101
Aug 21st, 2006, 03:13 PM
Isn't it amusing.
The Americans and British and Australians have been
rebuidling and building Iraq and Afghanistan for years, and
for that effort they are called 'occupiers, terrorists, killers,
invaders, and failures'.

Hamas and Hezbollah essentially destroy Lebanon (following
the pattern of Arafat and his handiwork for years inside
Lebanon until he was booted out), and then spend the
millions Iran and Syria give it, and they fix a few buildings
they helped destory.

Yes, Israel may have hit the buildings, but, why? To protect
itself from those w/Iranian rockets and missiles aimed at
them.


I can't help but shake my head at the utter bias the Boston Globe
and NY Times last week have given us on this ridiculous work
in Lebanon.

A fake ceasefire,
followed by fake news stories with a bias to assist the terrorists.
A fake UN series of meetings,
set up to bash Israel.

UN, there is mass murder going on in Darfur, Somalia and elsewhere,
Kosovo, Bosnia, hey, they're fighting again.
Where is the quick resolution?
Where is the condemnation?
Where is the new peacekeeping force?

None.



Sorry, that's not news, that's propaganda. At least give us both
sides of the story, something they fail to do most of the time.

On purpose.

Volcana
Aug 25th, 2006, 04:51 AM
Isn't it amusing.
The Americans and British and Australians have been
rebuidling and building Iraq and Afghanistan for years, and
for that effort they are called 'occupiers, terrorists, killers,
invaders, and failures'.That's because they invaded, overthrew the government, occupied the countries and put companies of their own choosing in place to profit from those countries natural resources.
Hamas and Hezbollah essentially destroy Lebanon ... Yes, Israel may have hit the buildingsSo Israel who 'essentially destroys Lebanon'.

Oh well, it's only Liberals who are actually interested in anybody taking responsibility for their own actions.

tennisbum79
Aug 25th, 2006, 05:02 AM
Isn't it amusing.
The Americans and British and Australians have been
rebuidling and building Iraq and Afghanistan for years, and
for that effort they are called 'occupiers, terrorists, killers,
invaders, and failures'.

Hamas and Hezbollah essentially destroy Lebanon (following
the pattern of Arafat and his handiwork for years inside
Lebanon until he was booted out), and then spend the
millions Iran and Syria give it, and they fix a few buildings
they helped destory.

Yes, Israel may have hit the buildings, but, why? To protect
itself from those w/Iranian rockets and missiles aimed at
them.


I can't help but shake my head at the utter bias the Boston Globe
and NY Times last week have given us on this ridiculous work
in Lebanon.

A fake ceasefire,
followed by fake news stories with a bias to assist the terrorists.
A fake UN series of meetings,
set up to bash Israel.

UN, there is mass murder going on in Darfur, Somalia and elsewhere,
Kosovo, Bosnia, hey, they're fighting again.
Where is the quick resolution?
Where is the condemnation?
Where is the new peacekeeping force?

None.



Sorry, that's not news, that's propaganda. At least give us both
sides of the story, something they fail to do most of the time.

On purpose.

Are taking people for fools?
Hezbollah live in Lebanon, it is their country.
Why would you call them occupiers in their own land?

This kind of hyperboles work only on right wing bloggs or talk radio.
Call Lymbaugh, O'Reilly, Savige or Hannity to pitch this idea.

tennisbum79
Aug 25th, 2006, 05:09 AM
Actually you are right, the term islamo facist is not suitable since it may imply that islam is a facist religion which was not my intention. But al queda and Hamas are certainly facist and facism can spring up anywhere in the world. So caling al queda and co. facist is good enough....

Hezbollah is better than the wahhabist groups. So maybe that group is not facist since it at least on paper tries to get along with the sunnis and Christians of Lebanon.

If you are going to insult a religion, be careful to spell the insult correctly, so that the target audience can understand what you are conveying.

Incidentally, a US politician made the same mistake recently, while trying to associate Hilary Clinton with Osama Ben Laden.

.

Volcana
Aug 25th, 2006, 05:38 AM
But al queda and Hamas are certainly facist and facism can spring up anywhere in the world. So caling al queda and co. facist is good enough....Are you sure that you understand what fascism actually is? Al Qaeda is theocratic, rather than fascist, at least as the term is generally defined in politico-scientific terms.

I'm not sure I'd even go that far with Hamas. They're just a resistance movement that uses tactics that can't be defended as anything other than terrorism. The defense that 'the Israelis do worse to us' may be a justification, but it isn't an excuse. There's a reason why collective punishment and mass attacks on civilians are war crimes. It's because that's used to be the norm in war. Virtually every people on earth has been subjected to the mass murder of their civilians, and everybody knows it sucks.