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View Full Version : Who WON the 34 day war in South Lebanon?


Volcana
Aug 17th, 2006, 05:42 AM
http://www.juancole.com/

Since the United Nations resolution calling for a halt to hostilities, Prime Minister Olmert, President Bush, Secretary-General Nasrallah, President al-Asad and President Ahmadinejad have all been procliaming the war a personal victory.

I don't know why they would want to claim it.

It was such a stupid war. It was thick-as-two-blocks-of-wood strategy on all sides. It was moronic for the Israelis to plan it out last year. It was idiotic for Hizbullah to cross over into Israel, kill soldiers, and take two captive. It was brain dead for the Israeli officer corps and politicians to think they could get anything positive out of bombing Lebanon back to the stone age and making a million people homeless. It was dim-witted for Hasan Nasrallah to threaten Israelis with releasing poison gases from Haifa chemical plants on them. It was obtuse for the Israelis to confront a dug-in guerrilla movement with green conventional troops marching in straight lines. It was dull of Hizbullah to fire thousands of katyushas into open fields where they mainly damaged wild grass. The few times when the rockets managed to kill someone, it was often an Arab Israeli civilian. Stupid.
A painful perspective for partisans, but for the objective, a quite insightful set of observations.

Volcana
Aug 17th, 2006, 05:49 AM
The winners:
Hizbullah: proclaimed as heroes in Muslim countries across the Middle East.
Bush & Blair: further vindication of their war on terror.
Israeli Armed forces: they can demand more resources and greater powers - has made Israeli people less secure, and more inclined to vote for those who promise to defend them.
Okay. Now you're scaring me. I really want every side in this debacle to wake up and realize they lost. If they can fool themselves into thinking somehow they won, this is just going to happen again.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 17th, 2006, 05:52 AM
It will happen again.

kiwifan
Aug 17th, 2006, 06:33 AM
The losers - the people of Lebanon and northern Israel, also the civilians in the Israeli government including Ehud Olmert.

The winners:
Hizbullah: proclaimed as heroes in Muslim countries across the Middle East.
Bush & Blair: further vindication of their war on terror.
Israeli Armed forces: they can demand more resources and greater powers - has made Israeli people less secure, and more inclined to vote for those who promise to defend them. :worship: :worship: :worship:

The Admins should lock this thread right now. ;)

It is 100% accurate & 100% finished.

:worship: to microbehunter (neva heard of ya before today)

:worship: to Volcana's bleak outlook (cuz it is going to happen all over again within 3 years only it will be worse - more and better weapons on both sides)

:worship: to Becca, for the concluding statement on the matter. :lol: :devil:

jmd
Aug 17th, 2006, 07:30 AM
so much destroyed in lebanon so many dead both sides. Is there a winner?

maybe syria iran, the only sure looser is Lebanon, not hezbolla.

hingis-seles
Aug 17th, 2006, 10:24 AM
They're all a bunch of fucking idiots. And like it's already been mentioned, it'll happen again. It's almost like sitting on a merry-go-round.

-Ph51-
Aug 17th, 2006, 10:38 AM
Certainly not Israel, i'm afraid.

furrykitten
Aug 17th, 2006, 10:44 AM
The civilians are always the loser in these wars, but the world doesn't care... :sad:

azdaja
Aug 17th, 2006, 11:11 AM
i'm afraid most people will perceive this as a victory for hizbollah. this is normal. they are guerillas and guerillas win wars by surviving and forcing the enemy to quit, not by destroying the enemy. they also appear to have a lot of support in the shiite population in the south and they (the civilians) will see this as their own victory in spite of all the suffering, death and destruction. forget the hippie rhetoric about the civilians being the losers and the military being the winners even if there is some truth in that.

i expected this war to end in this way, though not quite this fast. i'm not sure this is the final chapter, but i hope it is and that people will start working on a long-term solution through diplomacy.

vutt
Aug 17th, 2006, 12:07 PM
The winners:
Hizbullah: proclaimed as heroes in Muslim countries across the Middle East.
Bush & Blair: further vindication of their war on terror.
Israeli Armed forces: they can demand more resources and greater powers - has made Israeli people less secure, and more inclined to vote for those who promise to defend them.

Yep, that sums it up pretty nicely.
Only little amendment to first entry - not only as heroes, but they will get now more financial support from abroad, because they have proved thier competence in war against Israel.

azdaja
Aug 17th, 2006, 12:23 PM
i don't understand you people.

the idf sure as hell are not winners in this. until now they seemed invincible as even some israeli posters on this board suggested. now everybody was able to see they are not able to win every war they start and they are feared less. getting more money has little significance because their budget was huge anyway.

as for bush, this war clearly did not vindicate his "war on terror". in fact, it was a major setback in this regard. the us support for israeli attack on a defenceless country did not go unnoticed around the world.

it was a very stupid and unnecessary war.

"Sluggy"
Aug 17th, 2006, 12:38 PM
i basically agree with you Volcana, everyone was a loser. I never grasped why Israel reacted so strongly to the kidnapping, never grasped the motive for escalation, etc etc. both sides lost.

Lord Nelson
Aug 17th, 2006, 01:00 PM
The losers - the people of Lebanon and northern Israel, also the civilians in the Israeli government including Ehud Olmert.

The winners:
Hizbullah: proclaimed as heroes in Muslim countries across the Middle East.
Bush & Blair: further vindication of their war on terror.
Israeli Armed forces: they can demand more resources and greater powers - has made Israeli people less secure, and more inclined to vote for those who promise to defend them.
Hezbollah did not win, their infrustructure was damaged. They still have extensive support from Shiites but not from Sunnis, Christians, Druze etc..Now the bombing of Northern Israel which decrease substantially remember Hezbollah also did bombings now and then before Israel atatcked. Also Lebanon will to a certaine xtend have its troops in southern Lebanon. So it was a victory for Israel but only a slight one.
Oh and less than 1000 Lebanese dies in the war. Independant figures say it was around 800. Lebabnese tend to exaggerate numbers like with Qa where it was found that 23 people died and not 58.

Volcana
Aug 17th, 2006, 04:54 PM
Independant figures say it was around 800.'Independant figures'. That would be the lowest ones you could find, right?

NOTE: According to a pretty good source, The 78-day Kosovo bombing campaign only resulted in 500 civilian deaths, not the 10,000 Shimon Peres seems to believe. The source? The guy who actually did the assessment for Human Rights Watch. (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2006/07/reading_lebanese_civilian_casu.html)

SelesFan70
Aug 17th, 2006, 06:36 PM
In the wider view, I believe Syria and Iran are the big losers. I think the U.S. signed on the resolution so the next time Hezzbollah strikes Israel (and we all know there will be a next time), we can attack Syria and Iran for re-supplying them. :)

I can always dream, can't I? ;)

-Ph51-
Aug 17th, 2006, 06:52 PM
In the wider view, I believe Syria and Iran are the big losers. I think the U.S. signed on the resolution so the next time Hezzbollah strikes Israel (and we all know there will be a next time), we can attack Syria and Iran for re-supplying them. :)

I can always dream, can't I? ;)
Yes ;)

Hulet
Aug 17th, 2006, 08:35 PM
May be the question should be phrased in terms of who won but who lost. In that case, it is clear that the Lebanese people lost because of the shear number of death amost the population. How about Israel? Well, it lost in my mind because once again it demonstrated that as a state it could only sustain itself by the destruction it causes around it. Without its capacity to destroy, it can't last as a state no more than a day. It's an unstable state of the most extreme kind.

Paldias
Aug 17th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Volcana, you truly are a shit-disturber.

samsung101
Aug 17th, 2006, 10:41 PM
That would be The Terrorists.
Those fine people who like to blow up innocents
for fun, and then chant about it, and hope they
get really good looking virgin brides if they happen
to blow up too.

Lebanon lost, and the fledgling govt. didn't do much.

Iran and Syria did well, and continue to stir up trouble,
cover up their WMD and nuke aims (silly, nonsense, they
mean kindness to the world!).

Israel was split - it did achieve many objectives, but,
failed to understand how much hardware Iran had gotten
past the UN 'security and peace' forces there, to arm
Hezbollah. Nice work UN.

It failed in that it lost many more men then it is used
to, and the Premier did not think this through well. The
UN stabbed it in the back, so, what's new.

However, Israeli public is unhappy, and a more Hawkish
leader may soon take control. That's good for Israel.

The US did what it could - stalled and delayed for Israel.
But, Rice didn't do enough in my view. Bolton did what he
could, as did Bush. He said all the right things, and stayed
out of the way for Israel.

Again, in the end, the lovely human beings that like to
kill Israelis for sport, say they want peace publicly, and
yet, privately and in Arabic just say they want Israel
wiped off the face of the earth - they got a nice payday
in the anti-USA/anti-Israel media - that's pretty much
most of the world media.

The NY Times is glowing over the 'recovery' work of Hezbollah
in rebuilding what it is responsible for destroying in Lebanon.
Heck, they should send Hezbollah over to New Orleans they
do so well, per the NY Times descriptions. Never mind it's
all Iran money, the same Iran that doesn't even think there
was a Holocaust.

The same Iran that would like another such event to take
place soon.

Juan Cole? Oh, him........

Volcana
Aug 25th, 2006, 06:22 AM
That would be The Terrorists.
Those fine people who....I just can't re-print such inane commentary. As for a response, it's been said better before, in the movie "Billy Madison"
"what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Arguing with you isn't even target practice. It's shooting fish in a barrel.