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TeamUSA#1
Jul 31st, 2006, 07:41 PM
"Women are held to a different standard. When those blowouts come in the early rounds, the critics come down on them. If we get a few more, the critics will jump -- especially in this year (Wimbledon) when everyone is talking about equal prize money. But that's not the point. We don't punch a clock; we don't get paid by the game or set. When you have the same job, then anything less than equality is just wrong."-- ESPN commentator Pam Shriver on the many early blowouts on the women's side at Wimbledon and the pay-equality dispute in 2006.

I think this is the best arguement for equal pay in tennis.

Nicjac
Jul 31st, 2006, 07:52 PM
There was a study done recently in Europe. It questioned the reasons why women are paid less than men and it studies the progress over the last 100 years about equal pay at work (no, it is not just pro tennis, women are consistently paid less for the same work men do - all over the world).

I won't go into the details, but the summary is that it'll take another 150 years before women's accomplishments at work will have the same payouts then men's.

So, we do not need to agitate - our great grandchildren will and our female great great grandchildren might have the benefit ;)

Outlander
Jul 31st, 2006, 07:53 PM
My stance is I don't care. either way.

This is such a tired argument. If the women had any balls; they'd boycott Wimbledon (I believe they are the bug culprit) or any tournament that is screwing them over.

Until they do that; stop moaning about it and play.

--

As far as a global issue; Women are unique creatures, They want the door opened for them, they want to be wined and dined. They generally want to be treated like ladies. Like the princess that they are.

But they want equality as well.

Nicjac
Jul 31st, 2006, 07:57 PM
My stance is I don't care. either way.

This is such a tired argument. If the women had any balls; they'd boycott Wimbledon (I believe they are the bug culprit) or any tournament that is screwing them over.

Until they do that; stop moaning about it and play.

Well, then women should boycott any gainful employment at this point. And then, most men would not be able to finance their family sufficiently AND half of the work is not done - welcome back to the ice age ;)

SAEKeithSerena
Jul 31st, 2006, 07:58 PM
AMEN Pam!!!!!!!! (I love her!)

LeRoy.
Jul 31st, 2006, 07:59 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-2243249,00.html

The best argument for equal pay. :worship:

vogus
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:00 PM
the question of equal pay is a market issue, not a moral one.

when the WTA starts doing better than raising only 30% of the sponsorship money that the ATP has, their market position will be a little stronger.

vogus
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:01 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-2243249,00.html

The best argument for equal pay. :worship:


that article is the worst, weakest argument for equal pay that has been presented.

LeRoy.
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:03 PM
that article is the worst, weakest argument for equal pay that has been presented.

"Letís put it another way, the difference between men and womenís prize money in 2005 was £456,000 ó less than was spent on ice cream and strawberries in the first week. So the refusal of the All England Club, which declared a profit of £25 million from last yearís tournament, to pay equal prize money canít be about cash. It can only be trying to make a social and political point, one that is out of step with modern society. "

:)

meyerpl
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:03 PM
There was a study done recently in Europe. It questioned the reasons why women are paid less than men and it studies the progress over the last 100 years about equal pay at work (no, it is not just pro tennis, women are consistently paid less for the same work men do - all over the world).

I won't go into the details, but the summary is that it'll take another 150 years before women's accomplishments at work will have the same payouts then men's.

So, we do not need to agitate - our great grandchildren will and our female great great grandchildren might have the benefit ;)
I love your signature and I assume your post is offered with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Kart
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:05 PM
I think this is the best arguement for equal pay in tennis.

It's the only argument worth making.

raquel
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:22 PM
People like Pam only seem to have this debate when Wimbledon is on but why do we stop there? Indian Wells men's event has $3.1 million compared to $2.1 million for the women - and the men don't play best of 5 in IW. Italian Open on the men's tour pay $2.45 million, but on the women's tour they get $1.34 million - almost half the men for the same equivalent Tier. The end of year Championships on the women's tour get $750,000 less overall prize money - and that's with doubles combined (the men's doubles YEC is totally separate). Wimbledon can make their own rules as they're not WTA Tour owned. Why aren't the WTA Tour giving the same prize money to the women for the YEC and IW, when they do have the power to make it equal?

Nicjac
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:23 PM
I love your signature and I assume your post is offered with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Yep, but I am (unfortunately) neither that smart nor that down-to-earth. *sighs*

With regard to the latter: I'll never forget her "Brevity is the soul of lingerie". Or "One more drink and I'll be under the host".

And I do adore her 'whore to culture' phrase, but you were quicker than I. :( :lol:

meyerpl
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:27 PM
Yep, but I am (unfortunately) neither that smart nor that down-to-earth. *sighs*

With regard to the latter: I'll never forget her "Brevity is the soul of lingerie". Or "One more drink and I'll be under the host".

And I do adore her 'whore to culture' phrase, but you were quicker than I. :( :lol:

Another of my favorites, reportedly said at a debutante's ball: "If all these young ladies were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised."

Nicjac
Jul 31st, 2006, 08:35 PM
Another of my favorites, reportedly said at a debutante's ball: "If all these young ladies were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised."

:lol: She really knew how to play the language.

Another example: "Trapped, like a trap in a trap" or some such.

Outlander
Jul 31st, 2006, 09:59 PM
Well, then women should boycott any gainful employment at this point. And then, most men would not be able to finance their family sufficiently AND half of the work is not done - welcome back to the ice age

Theres a bit of truth in there. At one point in time (In America), the man could support the entire family with one job; pay the mortgage, pay for the food, the kids colleges, the family vacations ... everything.

And then the women came into the workforce. Now, the economy cannot survive without 2 income families. The idea of the 'Nuclear Family' is extinct.

-

In the case of Wimbledon; it would take one boycott to make it happen. Wimbledon would not stand firm against that kind of solidarity. Then again, the Ladies Champion isn't crying over the $1,162,062 they recieved this year.

Even the Ladies 1st Round loser is getting $14,614 U.S. dollars. (Waaa waaa sound of crying)

Maybe it is the feminist that are crying about it; Shriver, Carillo, Jean King ....

Maybe the other ladies are like "Who fucking cares! I just got $15,000 for losing !"

LOL

vogus
Jul 31st, 2006, 10:27 PM
if the women actually went through with a boycott, Wimbledon would probably go ahead and eliminate the 1% difference between men's and women's prize money.

Problem is, the vast majority of female players (except for the rich few at the top like Venus Williams) would have their pocketbooks hit extremely hard by a boycott, and they'd be better off afterwards to the tune of only 1 percent, while the huge prize money inequities at regular tour events like the Italian, Canadian, and German Opens would remain unchanged. A boycott would be a losing proposition financially for them, even over the long term.

Rexman
Jul 31st, 2006, 11:04 PM
People like Pam only seem to have this debate when Wimbledon is on but why do we stop there? Indian Wells men's event has $3.1 million compared to $2.1 million for the women - and the men don't play best of 5 in IW. Italian Open on the men's tour pay $2.45 million, but on the women's tour they get $1.34 million - almost half the men for the same equivalent Tier. The end of year Championships on the women's tour get $750,000 less overall prize money - and that's with doubles combined (the men's doubles YEC is totally separate). Wimbledon can make their own rules as they're not WTA Tour owned. Why aren't the WTA Tour giving the same prize money to the women for the YEC and IW, when they do have the power to make it equal?

Bad examples. Indian Wells and Rome are required stops on the men's tour. ALL the top men play. Indian Wells this year had what, 4 top 10 players?

raquel
Jul 31st, 2006, 11:13 PM
Bad examples. Indian Wells and Rome are required stops on the men's tour. ALL the top men play. Indian Wells this year had what, 4 top 10 players?
Well they are among the top level events outside the Slams on the mens tour. Indian Wells is one of the top level on the women's tour outside the Slams, but the money is not the same. If that's a bad example, then what about the YEC's? The women's event has a smaller prize money with singles and doubles put together. It's the WTA's Championships - they decide how much money goes into it - but it's getting less than the men with singles and doubles, yet no one asks questions of the equality when that event comes round. Pam should ask Larry Scott about that one - but that will never happen. Pam would never go for the WTA heirachy. She was part of it for long enough. Equal prize money is not such a big issue come November.

SvetaPleaseWin.
Jul 31st, 2006, 11:41 PM
when people say that the men play more sets, that theres more depth etc. the women players should just point to one match Federer def Gaudio 6-0 6-0 Shanghai YEC 2005

partbrit
Aug 1st, 2006, 12:06 AM
This is such a tired argument. If the women had any balls; they'd boycott Wimbledon (I believe they are the bug culprit) or any tournament that is screwing them over.

I agree with you completely (except for the part that equates courage with maleness).

SM
Aug 1st, 2006, 12:49 AM
"Women are held to a different standard. When those blowouts come in the early rounds, the critics come down on them. If we get a few more, the critics will jump -- especially in this year (Wimbledon) when everyone is talking about equal prize money. But that's not the point. We don't punch a clock; we don't get paid by the game or set. When you have the same job, then anything less than equality is just wrong."-- ESPN commentator Pam Shriver on the many early blowouts on the women's side at Wimbledon and the pay-equality dispute in 2006.

I think this is the best arguement for equal pay in tennis.
Same job? should we apple this to womens golf, womens soccer, womens basketball etc..:tape:

LUIS9
Aug 1st, 2006, 01:22 AM
There was a study done recently in Europe. It questioned the reasons why women are paid less than men and it studies the progress over the last 100 years about equal pay at work (no, it is not just pro tennis, women are consistently paid less for the same work men do - all over the world).

I won't go into the details, but the summary is that it'll take another 150 years before women's accomplishments at work will have the same payouts then men's.

So, we do not need to agitate - our great grandchildren will and our female great great grandchildren might have the benefit ;)

Yes this was thoroughly covered and explored in my gender studies course and psych of gender courses. For example just in the U.S women across all professions I forget the exact percentage but women are paid 15,20 or 30 percent less than men across all professions, from Janitors to Ph.D's including specialized physicians.

AlanaStarr
Aug 1st, 2006, 02:17 AM
One of my favorites, capriati once remarked at a press confrence when asked about equal prize money.

Reporter: "Jennifer, what are your thoughts on Women not having equal prize money to the men on several levels?"

Jennifer: "Well, you know, ummm, i cant really, you know, go into that because, you know, i just collect MY checks at the end of the, ya know, day. I dont have an opinion cause i aint broke ass. Ask someone who needs the money, Like Dokic. She, you know, would be better able to answer....mmmmm yeah. *thinks about the question more carefully* DAD! Wheres my fucking money??? You didnt pay me this year! ...fuck, i totally, like, forgot! DAAAAAD!"

Giggles
Aug 1st, 2006, 04:34 AM
the question of equal pay is a market issue, not a moral one.

when the WTA starts doing better than raising only 30% of the sponsorship money that the ATP has, their market position will be a little stronger.

Agreed. If this were a moral issue, we should also support equal pay in porn actors -- I heard girls are paid more than boys. :devil:

Being said, I also have some sympathy to Wimbledon's excuse -- ladies do not play best of five. I would love to see Venus playing best of five to fight for equal pay as much like Billy Jean did at the battle of sexes. Both men and women run the same marathon distance. So it is probably possible for women to play best of five.

Anyway, it does not bother me that women getting less than men as a matter of a market issue and neither does women playing best of three in grand slam.

DutchieGirl
Aug 1st, 2006, 06:12 AM
As far as a global issue; Women are unique creatures, They want the door opened for them, they want to be wined and dined. They generally want to be treated like ladies. Like the princess that they are.

But they want equality as well.

I'm sorry - but :bs: I'm a woman and I don't expect anyone to open a door for me, or to pull out a seat for me. I'd rather have equality and be independent than have someone do that crap for me!

hdfb
Aug 1st, 2006, 11:26 AM
A male and female bricklayer. The male can obviously do more work than the female in a given time. Are you saying that they should still be paid the same?

There are just some jobs where we give money proportional to the amount of work done, regardless of one's biology and capabilities.

But I still think women deserve equal pay in TENNIS.

vwfan
Aug 1st, 2006, 01:47 PM
My stance is I don't care. either way.

This is such a tired argument. If the women had any balls; they'd boycott Wimbledon (I believe they are the bug culprit) or any tournament that is screwing them over.

Until they do that; stop moaning about it and play.

--

As far as a global issue; Women are unique creatures, They want the door opened for them, they want to be wined and dined. They generally want to be treated like ladies. Like the princess that they are.

But they want equality as well.got issues, have we? :lol:

anyhow, i don't see why this is so difficult to comprehend.

i think the five set vs. three set is just :bs: nobody even pays attention in male matches until the third set anyway. first two sets are just glorified warmups. :lol:

rjd1111
Aug 1st, 2006, 02:26 PM
if the women actually went through with a boycott, Wimbledon would probably go ahead and eliminate the 1% difference between men's and women's prize money.

Problem is, the vast majority of female players (except for the rich few at the top like Venus Williams) would have their pocketbooks hit extremely hard by a boycott, and they'd be better off afterwards to the tune of only 1 percent, while the huge prize money inequities at regular tour events like the Italian, Canadian, and German Opens would remain unchanged. A boycott would be a losing proposition financially for them, even over the long term.


That is true. But if you want to make an omelete, you have to

break some eggs.

Get Wimby and then those others.

rjd1111
Aug 1st, 2006, 02:31 PM
Same job? should we apple this to womens golf, womens soccer, womens basketball etc..:tape:


Why not. Are they not playing the game or does Golf, Soccer, BBall,
change into different sports when the ladies take the field.