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Mother_Marjorie
Jul 12th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Israel sends tanks into Lebanon after Hezbollah attack
Israel denounces 'act of war'

Wednesday, July 12, 2006; Posted: 1:17 p.m. EDT (17:17 GMT)

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Hezbollah guerrillas killed seven Israeli soldiers and captured two more Wednesday, triggering Israeli airstrikes and military raids inside southern Lebanon, Israeli officials said.

Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah told reporters that "direct negotiations" would be the only way to return the soldiers and that their capture was "our natural, only and logical right."

He demanded the soldiers be swapped for "our prisoners" held by Israel. A demand for Israel to release Palestinians from its jails has been made by Palestinian militants who captured another Israeli soldier, Cpl. Gilad Shalit, last month. (Watch gunfire and smoke as Israeli troops enter southern Lebanon -- 2:55)

Nasrallah said the two soldiers taken Wednesday had been moved to "a faraway place." Israel has repeatedly refused to consider any swap for jailed Palestinians.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said the Hezbollah attacks were an "act of war" and blamed the Lebanese government, which he said would be held responsible.

He promised a "very painful and far-reaching" response, The Associated Press reported.

There have been only sporadic border clashes since Israel withdrew its forces from southern Lebanon in 2000 after 22 years of occupation.

Three of the seven soldiers who were killed Wednesday died during fighting with Hezbollah along the Israeli-Lebanese border, and four were killed later as Israeli troops moved into southern Lebanon, said Israel Defense Forces.

In a claim broadcast on Hezbollah's television channel, Hezbollah said it had "destroyed" an Israeli tank crossing into the region.

Thunder and smoke
The valleys along the Israeli-Lebanese border thundered with artillery fire and clouds of blue-gray smoke could be seen rising above Lebanese positions.

Israeli forces, observers said, were bombing roads, bridges and guerrilla positions in southern Lebanon in an attempt to prevent guerrillas from moving the troops deeper into Lebanon.

Israeli forces are also responding to rocket attacks fired by Hezbollah into northern Israel, according to the army.

Israeli military sources confirmed a troop buildup on the northern border and said preparations were being made for possible call-up of reserve soldiers.

"This morning there was an attack on civilians and soldiers in the north. At this moment there are Israeli security forces operating inside Lebanon," Olmert told reporters.

"The government will convene this evening for a special Cabinet meeting. I want to make clear that the events this morning are not a terror attack but an operation of a sovereign state without any reason or provocation."

The Israeli Cabinet is scheduled to meet at 7 p.m. (noon ET), according to Olmert's office.

"The Lebanese government, which Hezbollah is part of, is trying to undermine the stability of the region, and the Lebanese government will be responsible for the consequences," Olmert said.

Hezbollah, Lebanon, Syria and Iran
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice condemned Hezbollah for its action and singled out Syria, which she said has a "special responsibility to use its influence to support a positive outcome."

State Department officials said the United States recognizes that there is little the Lebanese government can do to control Hezbollah.

While the United States sees Lebanon's government, which includes Hezbollah in its Cabinet, as an important interlocutor with Hezbollah, State Department officials have said they recognize that Lebanon does not have the capacity to expand its authority into the south, where Hezbollah has control.

These officials said the United States is holding Syria and Iran responsible for support of Hezbollah.

'We will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years'
Responding to the most recent incident along the Israel-Lebanon border, Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz said in a statement: "The State of Israel sees itself free to use all measures that it finds it needs, and the [Israeli Forces] have been given orders in that direction."

Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Dan Halutz told Israeli Channel 10, "If the soldiers are not returned we will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years."

Four Israeli civilians and six soldiers have been wounded in the fighting so far, according to the Israeli military.

The IDF instructed citizens in northern villages to take shelter as the violence escalated.

It is the latest skirmish between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon, whose forces traded cross-border fire in late May following the assassination of an Islamic Jihad official in the southern Lebanese city of Sidon.

Mahmoud Majzoub, also known as Abu Hamza, was killed in a car bombing, which Islamic Jihad blamed on Israel. Israel denied any involvement in the incident.

Hezbollah is designated a terrorist group by the United States and Israel but is a significant player in Lebanon's fractious politics.

Israel set up a security buffer zone in southern Lebanon from 1978 until 2000.

Meteor Shower
Jul 12th, 2006, 05:31 PM
7 soldiers killed :sad:
3 soldiers kidnapped :sad:

Things are getting really agressive.

Olmert :rolleyes: I knew it would happen.

meyerpl
Jul 12th, 2006, 06:17 PM
This could create tension in an otherwise tranquil region of the world.

Lord Nelson
Jul 12th, 2006, 06:37 PM
This could create tension in an otherwise tranquil region of the world.
Life goes on. The Israelis should think that otherwise they will go crazy.

samsung101
Jul 12th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Tranquil?

What?

Life in that region has never been tranquil.
Israel on the map is the size of a pea.
Surrounded by nations and groups that
want it and all the citizens wiped off that map.



Israel should do whatever it needs to do to secure
its safety, security, national identity, and soldiers.

They have been provoked once again.
The UN as usual, seems to blame Israel. What's new.

Let us hope for a repeat of a short and swift war, if
there must be one. I hope it doesn't happen though.

Life goes on...not if the enemies of Israel have their
way. That's the point.

Nimrodg
Jul 12th, 2006, 07:19 PM
The Lebanese goverment are a joke. They say that they are not responsible for the kidnap, while the it has been made from their own country, by a party who have lots of power in the parliamant.

Kofi Annan is also pathetic. How can he criticize Israel action in Lebanon, while there are 2 soldiers who were captured by the Hizbullah? maybe he wants that just watch what's happening and do nothing.

Nasrallah is no more than leader of a terror group. Why do he thinks that prisoners are the same as kidnapped soldiers?
The Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners are in jail for one reason - They are related to terror. If Israel will release, as the Hezbollah wants prisioners, Those "people" will just return to work on terror attacks against Israel.
I just wish that the IDF will use the power that he have(and he have lot more power than he used today) to destroy the terror orgnizations and bring back the soldiers home.

meyerpl
Jul 12th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Tranquil?

What?

Life in that region has never been tranquil.
Israel on the map is the size of a pea.
Surrounded by nations and groups that
want it and all the citizens wiped off that map.


I might not have been exactly serious.

Nestled between Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt, war-weary Jews established a homeland in 1948 where they could finally live in safety and peace, far from those who seek to destroy them. Right?

Scotso
Jul 13th, 2006, 02:27 AM
If the governments of Lebanon, Syria, etc. have lost the ability/desire to control their people, it's time for Israel to do it for them.

Maryamator
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:30 AM
i heared that they also attaked the airport today morning. I dont really know if its true though...

Conchi Party
Jul 13th, 2006, 03:43 PM
I don't understand how the world can stand by and let a terrorist nation like Israel invade sovereign nations like Lebanon. They have killed nearly 100 civilians for 2 soldiers who were not even kidnapped by the Government of Lebanon. They think they have a god-given right to do as they please, how ignorant considering the atrocities that have occured against Jews in WWII. Bombing parts of the airport? Nice.

It is not one-sided, but terrorist groups and terrorist nations are two seperate entities. Israel has a responsibility to the international community to act in a measured and balanced way, which they clearly have foregone.

NyCPsU
Jul 13th, 2006, 03:49 PM
isreal needs to be this agressive and i am in total support of the actions they take
its not like they are raging bloodthirsty war-seekers, but they are being forced to control a situation

and the un :retard: makes isreal out to be in the wrong :rolleyes:

NyCPsU
Jul 13th, 2006, 03:51 PM
I don't understand how the world can stand by and let a terrorist nation like Israel invade sovereign nations like Lebanon. They have killed nearly 100 civilians for 2 soldiers who were not even kidnapped by the Government of Lebanon. They think they have a god-given right to do as they please, how ignorant considering the atrocities that have occured against Jews in WWII. Bombing parts of the airport? Nice.

It is not one-sided, but terrorist groups and terrorist nations are two seperate entities. Israel has a responsibility to the international community to act in a measured and balanced way, which they clearly have foregone.

:tape: :o

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 03:56 PM
a terrorist nation :lol:

What do you want Israel to do? Stand by while Lebanon is kiddnapping our soldiers and shooting Kassams?
Lebanon government should be responsible for the actions.

I wouldn't trust the reports about the citizens killed, I think they are false.

samsung101
Jul 13th, 2006, 04:17 PM
Israel should do whatever it needs to. I have faith
in their actions. Based on how they have protected
themselves so far in their history. Negotations and
capitulation and 'peace talks' have resulted in what?
A smaller Israel, more violent neighbors, and more
emboldened terrorists supported by Iran and Syria
and other nations.

They were attacked. Their soldiers kidnapped. Citizens
hit. Do what you need to. Without Israel, without the
Palestinian problem, the other Arab nations will have to
face their real problems at home, and bye bye dictatorships
and despotic rule.

Iran gets heat from the world (sort of, UN style heat)
about their nuke program and conveniently, things then
heat up in Lebanon. Coincidence, I don't think so.

This allows Iran to change the subject for a while.

Now, there is a news story that they may move the
kidnapped soldiers to Iran from Lebanon. Bad move.

Try it.

Only legitimizes the move Israel would likely take anyway:
taking out the Iran nuke plants. Do it w/my blessing.


To hear France and Russia talk about a far too aggressive
response from Israel to the attacks it has taken...stupid.
If France or Russia were hit with 1/100th of the violence
Israel has been lately, they'd have done far more serious
things by now.

oren987
Jul 13th, 2006, 04:48 PM
Israel should do whatever it needs to. I have faith
in their actions. Based on how they have protected
themselves so far in their history. Negotations and
capitulation and 'peace talks' have resulted in what?
A smaller Israel, more violent neighbors, and more
emboldened terrorists supported by Iran and Syria
and other nations.

They were attacked. Their soldiers kidnapped. Citizens
hit. Do what you need to. Without Israel, without the
Palestinian problem, the other Arab nations will have to
face their real problems at home, and bye bye dictatorships
and despotic rule.

Iran gets heat from the world (sort of, UN style heat)
about their nuke program and conveniently, things then
heat up in Lebanon. Coincidence, I don't think so.

This allows Iran to change the subject for a while.

Now, there is a news story that they may move the
kidnapped soldiers to Iran from Lebanon. Bad move.

Try it.

Only legitimizes the move Israel would likely take anyway:
taking out the Iran nuke plants. Do it w/my blessing.


To hear France and Russia talk about a far too aggressive
response from Israel to the attacks it has taken...stupid.
If France or Russia were hit with 1/100th of the violence
Israel has been lately, they'd have done far more serious
things by now.

so true. Thank you

Hulet
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:06 PM
"Terrorist Nation" is what I thought too when I read Israel bombed an international airport in retaliation for the death/capture of its military personnel. Other labels that popped into my head are worse so I won't repeat them here. :)

fufuqifuqishahah
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:14 PM
a terrorist nation :lol:

What do you want Israel to do? Stand by while Lebanon is kiddnapping our soldiers and shooting Kassams?
Lebanon government should be responsible for the actions.

I wouldn't trust the reports about the citizens killed, I think they are false.

lebanon government is not responsible.
:sad: lebanon

State Department officials said the United States recognizes that there is little the Lebanese government can do to control Hezbollah.

i like israel too but i don't like all this fighting it makes me cry :sad:

furrykitten
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:21 PM
One thing you have to think of here, how would you feel if you were a civilian and another country was shooting their tanks and Dropping bombs towards your back door when you are an innocent party?.
Its easy for Britis, Americans to pass comment but unless you are there you can't understand what you're talking about.

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Two bombings just dropped in my city Haifa.
Nasrallah said he will only attack Haifa if Beirut will be bombed. Guess Beirut will be bombed now.

I'm just scared because there are lots of industrial areas here,
and I fear they may be stupid enough to bomb it.

fufuqifuqishahah
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:27 PM
One thing you have to think of here, how would you feel if you were a civilian and another country was shooting their tanks and Dropping bombs towards your back door when you are an innocent party?.
Its easy for Britis, Americans to pass comment but unless you are there you can't understand what you're talking about.

yea. i understand why they fight, it's just saddening. :sad: i'm sure israel is rightfully paranoid, it's just sad that now there's problems between countries where there hasn't been any major major problems for a while.

fufuqifuqishahah
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Two bombings just dropped in my city Haifa.
Nasrallah said he will only attack Haifa if Beirut will be bombed. Guess Beirut will be bombed now.

I'm just scared because there are lots of industrial areas here,
and I fear they may be stupid enough to bomb it.

i have a lot of respect for you and your people to stay strong throughout the years -- its odd cuz ur just posting on wtaworld.com while things around you are getting bombed -- that's how used / desensitized to the bombing you have become because its so common.

furrykitten
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:33 PM
yea. i understand why they fight, it's just saddening. :sad: i'm sure israel is rightfully paranoid, it's just sad that now there's problems between countries where there hasn't been any major major problems for a while.

I mean't how would you feel if you were an innocent Lebanese Citizen right now if you lived in the area that was being targeted by Israel, I know it works both ways but the people of Lebanon have no defence it seems :sad:

dementieva's fan
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:35 PM
Israel stirring the pot again :tape:

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:36 PM
i have a lot of respect for you and your people to stay strong throughout the years -- its odd cuz ur just posting on wtaworld.com while things around you are getting bombed -- that's how used / desensitized to the bombing you have become because its so common.

well it have been quiet in my city for alot of time but there were times
few years ago when it was like 'where this it happen this time'
it became normal and it was sad. but things got better lately until this.

and there were reports that there are two, but I think its just one.

What can you do? got to keep living your life I guess,
some people are moving to more southern cities though.

roarke
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:38 PM
Warmonger!

roarke
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:42 PM
Kill a 100 men women & children for one of your dead? Starve a nation to protect a few of your own?

meyerpl
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:44 PM
Two bombings just dropped in my city Haifa.
Nasrallah said he will only attack Haifa if Beirut will be bombed. Guess Beirut will be bombed now.

I'm just scared because there are lots of industrial areas here,
and I fear they may be stupid enough to bomb it.
This kind of puts the matter in a better perspective for many of us, doesn't it? My heart goes out to all who are affected by these events.

oren987
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:44 PM
Two bombings just dropped in my city Haifa.
Nasrallah said he will only attack Haifa if Beirut will be bombed. Guess Beirut will be bombed now.

I'm just scared because there are lots of industrial areas here,
and I fear they may be stupid enough to bomb it.

I heard the bomb :eek: It was realy close
Beirut sould be bumbed real soon

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:49 PM
I heard the bomb :eek: It was realy close
Beirut sould be bumbed real soon

We have a flight for Saturday..
I wonder what will happen now.

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 05:59 PM
Its getting closer and closr to me, now Kiryat Ata? :o
Lebanon is pushing it.

Think I'll be off to the shelters soon :(
first time in my life I think.

Lord Nelson
Jul 13th, 2006, 06:04 PM
Two bombings just dropped in my city Haifa.
Nasrallah said he will only attack Haifa if Beirut will be bombed. Guess Beirut will be bombed now.

I'm just scared because there are lots of industrial areas here,
and I fear they may be stupid enough to bomb it.
That's what happens for not chucking out the Palestininas when you won the war in 48. Even when you got extra land in 67 you could have booted out the Palestinians from west bank and Gaza too and then negotiated for a peace deal, There would have been no intifada since Palestinians would have been booted out and more importantly, Palestinians would not be reproducing like rabbits as they are doing now. They have an easy life. They have highest aid per capita in the world for such a small region and so have enough money and don't need to work. They can then focus on winning battle of the womb with the Jews. What a great life they have. :rolleyes:

At least Armenia was sensible enough to not just capture Nakorno Karabakh but also proper Azeri land which has oil. All of the Azeris were booted out. There were no socialist government like with Israel to say oh we can
all live in peace. Moshe Dayan and Yitshak Rabin were real left wingers so no suprising Plaestinians were allowed to stay in the region unlike Jews who had to fee Arab nation. With Nagorno Karabakh, Azeris were booted out and there is thus no intifada in Armenia.

NyCPsU
Jul 13th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Its getting closer and closr to me, now Kiryat Ata? :o
Lebanon is pushing it.

Think I'll be off to the shelters soon :(
first time in my life I think.

omg ASAP :sad:

you and everyone effected by this are in my prayers!!

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 06:32 PM
omg ASAP :sad:

you and everyone effected by this are in my prayers!!

I'll be okay (I hope), don't worry.
I'm more worried about our soldiers. :(

and I'm scared of what might happen with Syria and Iran if we will bomb Beirut. Not knowing sucks!

Apoleb
Jul 13th, 2006, 06:46 PM
50+ Lebanese civilians have died so far. But ofcourse, they don't count.

njnetswill
Jul 13th, 2006, 06:53 PM
This place is filled with hypocrisy. If Israel captured two Lebanese soldiers would some of you warrant Lebanese attacks on, for example, Tel Aviv? I've always sided with Israel in these Middle East conflicts int he past, but this time I can't help but feel the citizens of Lebanon are the victims here.

NyCPsU
Jul 13th, 2006, 06:55 PM
I'll be okay (I hope), don't worry.
I'm more worried about our soldiers. :(

and I'm scared of what might happen with Syria and Iran if we will bomb Beirut. Not knowing sucks!

:hug:

NyCPsU
Jul 13th, 2006, 06:57 PM
50+ Lebanese civilians have died so far. But ofcourse, they don't count.

that has not been implied in any way
i feel for the citizens of both nations in this mess

Apoleb
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:04 PM
that has not been implied in any way


It is, when some people speak about the 8 dead soldiers and the 2 kidnapped, and ignore the tens of Lebanese civilians who have died so far.

mc8114
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:12 PM
This situation is so delicate i don't even know what to say...

I guess sometimes diplomacy is just not enough and governments end up taking actions in their own benefit without even considering the real damages that can be caused to the population.

samsung101
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Shouldn't we be putting the blame where it belongs?
Hamas.
Hezbollah.
A govt. in Lebanon that has allowed both groups
to exist and thrive w/i its borders.

Iran has a huge hand in this.

I trust Israel to put the hammer down if need be,
and take care of itself. The USA should stay out of
it formally.

If Iran gets more involved, it sets up a scenario
where the West (USA) may finally have the open
door to take out the Iran nukes. But, I hope Israel
does that first and completely.

North Korea is laughing.
Iran is smiling.
Al Jazeera is in rapture.
Our media is worrying about detainees getting
cold chicken at Guantanamo as torture, and Israel
is made to be the bad guy again. Our Congress is
worrying about our efforts to catch terrorists being
too obtrusive, even if legal, and the terrorists smile.

Gas prices will skyrocket more. Our lawmakers will
say no drilling in ANWR or the Gulf Coast (not real
drilling), and we'll just continue to make ourselves
more dependent on a region of the world that has
been in a dangerous state of war for a century.

I'm sorry innocent people are dying, but, the real
anger should be directed at Hezbollah and Hamas
for continuing their violent and failed policies and
tactics.

Land for Peace didn't work.
How about Take Land Back Because of Terrorist Attacks.
Attack Israel, Israel Attacks back and takes land - instead
of giving it back again & again w/weak treaties to try to
get peace.

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Of course I'm sorry for the Lebanese civilians who died,
and I don't want it to happen.
But Israeli soldiers were being kidnapped and civilians were injured,
and by that Lebanon kinda opened a war imo.
The goverment couldn't handle the terrorists in Lebanon,
and something had to be done.

Despite the war situation,
Right now the Israeli tries to hurt as less Lebanese civilians as possible,
and I don't want to think what would have happen if it was to happen
to other country instead of Israel. The reaction would be much worse.

Israel wanted peace and withdrew from the lands,
but the terrorists couldn't care less.

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Shouldn't we be putting the blame where it belongs?
Hamas.
Hezbollah.
A govt. in Lebanon that has allowed both groups
to exist and thrive w/i its borders.

Iran has a huge hand in this.

I trust Israel to put the hammer down if need be,
and take care of itself. The USA should stay out of
it formally.

If Iran gets more involved, it sets up a scenario
where the West (USA) may finally have the open
door to take out the Iran nukes. But, I hope Israel
does that first and completely.

North Korea is laughing.
Iran is smiling.
Al Jazeera is in rapture.
Our media is worrying about detainees getting
cold chicken at Guantanamo as torture, and Israel
is made to be the bad guy again. Our Congress is
worrying about our efforts to catch terrorists being
too obtrusive, even if legal, and the terrorists smile.

Gas prices will skyrocket more. Our lawmakers will
say no drilling in ANWR or the Gulf Coast (not real
drilling), and we'll just continue to make ourselves
more dependent on a region of the world that has
been in a dangerous state of war for a century.

I'm sorry innocent people are dying, but, the real
anger should be directed at Hezbollah and Hamas
for continuing their violent and failed policies and
tactics.

Land for Peace didn't work.
How about Take Land Back Because of Terrorist Attacks.
Attack Israel, Israel Attacks back and takes land - instead
of giving it back again & again w/weak treaties to try to
get peace.

exactly! :worship:

NyCPsU
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:27 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship:

love the bit about Guantanamo

Apoleb
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:38 PM
Israel is trying to punish the Lebanese people in an attempt to create tension in the country and turn them against Hezbollah.

oren987
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Israel is trying to punish the Lebanese people in an attempt to create tension in the country and turn them against Hezbollah.

Give us the 2 Israeli soldiers back, and then we will stop.

dementieva's fan
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:54 PM
I don't want to think what would have happen if it was to happen
to other country instead of Israel. The reaction would be much worse.


You are kidding, right?

Nimrodg
Jul 13th, 2006, 07:59 PM
You are kidding, right?

Find me another country that letting a proclamation using the air-force, requesting from civilians not to get close to targets that gonna be attacked(Hezbollah related-builidings)

Scotso
Jul 13th, 2006, 08:51 PM
Israel does its best to limit its targets to terrorists and military. It isn't their fault that the governments and leaders of these groups don't care about their own civilians. I'm sure Israel cares more about the starving Palestinians than Hamas does. Please, give me a break. They're TERRORISTS. They don't care about people. All they care about is making their enemy suffer, and they will do it any way they can. They would kill thousands of their own people if it meant making the enemy look bad. I can't believe people on this board side with terrorists so often.

Israel has the right to defend their borders and their citizens lives. If this means that a few innocent people have to die, then that's what it means. It's sad, yes, but war is a messy business and if the Lebanese, Palestinians, etc. don't want to be involved in this transaction they should do a better job of controlling the extremists in their midst.

Scotso
Jul 13th, 2006, 08:51 PM
50+ Lebanese civilians have died so far. But ofcourse, they don't count.

Where did you get these numbers? And of course they count. So do the many, many Israelis who have been killed by suicide bombers.

Nimrodg
Jul 13th, 2006, 08:59 PM
BTW - to the guys who said that the attack of the Hezbollah wasn't the Lebanese government false -
The Lebanese government till now didn't put their army in southern Lebanon. They have let the Hezbollah forces to arm there with weapons and it's their full responsibility that the Hezbollah attacked. They should've act before to wipe out the Hezbollah from southern Lebanon and the whole thing wasn't happenned.

Conchi Party
Jul 13th, 2006, 09:03 PM
I'm sorry but you are (posters from Israel) definitely biased having grown up in Israel, a friend of mine went there and was shocked at the propaganda they teach in Israeli schools. She also commented that a good sector (20-25%) think Israel is the problem (specifically he radical right) which perpetuates turmoil...

Frankly Israel gets away with terrorist acts without real consequences from the international community, that country other than the US would get away with.

Both the US and Israel act without thinking, without intelligence, and the consequence is death, destruction, and the fueling of fundamentalism and hatred.

They will never see peace with war.

tks
Jul 13th, 2006, 09:04 PM
BTW - to the guys who said that the attack of the Hezbollah wasn't the Lebanese government false -
The Lebanese government till now didn't put their army in southern Lebanon. They have let the Hezbollah forces to arm there with weapons and it's their full responsibility that the Hezbollah attacked. They should've act before to wipe out the Hezbollah from southern Lebanon and the whole thing wasn't happenned.
:yeah:

Apoleb
Jul 13th, 2006, 09:05 PM
BTW - to the guys who said that the attack of the Hezbollah wasn't the Lebanese government false -
The Lebanese government till now didn't put their army in southern Lebanon. They have let the Hezbollah forces to arm there with weapons and it's their full responsibility that the Hezbollah attacked. They should've act before to wipe out the Hezbollah from southern Lebanon and the whole thing wasn't happenned.

Hezbollah is stronger than the Lebanese army. The government can do nothing by force to Hezbollah or there would be a new civil war.

Melissa Torres fan, those are the figures of the Lebanese interior ministry and they were backed up by international news agencies, such as the BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5178058.stm

samsung101
Jul 13th, 2006, 09:18 PM
Plans to transfer kidnapped soldiers to Iran?
Blow up airport. Harder to move them.
Good.

Israel blows up Hamas safehouse, with wanted
terrorists, and it is criticized.

NY Times doesn't like this.

Which to me, means it is the right thing to do.
If Bill Keller is against it, I'm usually for it.

Iran gets heat for nuke plans, and conveniently,
Iran supported terrorist groups take these actions.
M-m-m.....get Michael Moore on this!

North Korea, Iran's ally, shoots off missiles on
the 4th of July (bad as they were)....m-m-m.........

All to allow Iran more time to do what it wants,
and more ability to move forward.

Those silly freedom fighters in Hamas and Hezbollaah.

The UN takes years to to condemn attacks on Israel,
if at all...it took but a day or two to try to formally
condemn Israel today.The US vetoed that nonsense.
Good.

If attacked, strike back with deadly and lethal force.
Wipe out the headquarters, the safehouses, the meeting
places, the weapon caches, all of it. They want to fight,
give them one.

Meteor Shower
Jul 13th, 2006, 09:19 PM
a friend of mine went there and was shocked at the propaganda they teach in Israeli schools.

What propaganda? There is a rule that says teachers are
not allowed to tell their political opionion. Only state facts.
Only one teacher has ever expressed her opinions in my school,
and the students told her she is not allowed (other teachers
taught us that).
Besides, students couldn't care less about what their teachers say,
if anything its their parents that influencing them.

Nimrodg
Jul 13th, 2006, 09:20 PM
I'm sorry but you are (posters from Israel) definitely biased having grown up in Israel, a friend of mine went there and was shocked at the propaganda they teach in Israeli schools. She also commented that a good sector (20-25%) think Israel is the problem (specifically he radical right) which perpetuates turmoil...

Frankly Israel gets away with terrorist acts without real consequences from the international community, that country other than the US would get away with.

Both the US and Israel act without thinking, without intelligence, and the consequence is death, destruction, and the fueling of fundamentalism and hatred.

They will never see peace with war.

We are not biased. Every person in Israel has his own opinion, I think you'd be surprised if you'll knew how many people are against attacks in Gaza.

What propaganda does he talks about in schools?! maybe he confused with Iran or something else, but the schools in Israel are taken no side in the conflict, and taking no side in politics.

There's growing a bad side in the world. The extremist muslims are acting without any differentiation between kids, grown ups, soldiers, Jews or Christians.
If you won't do anything as a comment to their acts, you'll keep on getting missiles above your head, keep on take rides in a bus with a fear he'll blow up.

Those terrorist don't care if there will be civilians who will get hurt in their side - THEY ARE HIDING INSIDE OF NEIGHBRHOODS. You can't let them to oversee their terror attacks from far away.

Israel is the side who wants peace, Israel won't declare that they want to wipe out some nation from the map.
While the Hamas, Iran and Hezbollah are not reconizing Israel right to exist, Israel recognize the Palestinians, Lebanese, Iranians and Syrians right to exist.

You can claim what ever you want about the Israeli Defence forces acts, BUT WE ARE THE SIDE WHO ACTUALLY CARES AND WANTS PEACE IN THIS AREA

tks
Jul 13th, 2006, 09:31 PM
Hezbollah is stronger than the Lebanese army. The government can do nothing by force to Hezbollah or there would be a new civil war.
This is where all begin.
how can it be that terror organization can control sovereign state? :rolleyes:
one of the targets in this operation of the israeli army is to push the Hezbollah from the border, and that the Lebanese army will take the Hezbollah place on the border.
maybe the israeli army will do a favor to the Lebanese people and government if he will destroy the Hezbollah.

I hope it will end soon :o

and good luck to our army and nation! :kiss: be strong! :sad:

Lord Nelson
Jul 13th, 2006, 10:07 PM
I'm sorry but you are (posters from Israel) definitely biased having grown up in Israel, a friend of mine went there and was shocked at the propaganda they teach in Israeli schools. She also commented that a good sector (20-25%) think Israel is the problem (specifically he radical right) which perpetuates turmoil...

Frankly Israel gets away with terrorist acts without real consequences from the international community, that country other than the US would get away with.

Both the US and Israel act without thinking, without intelligence, and the consequence is death, destruction, and the fueling of fundamentalism and hatred.

They will never see peace with war.
She was shocked, oh really??? Has she been to another country in the Middle East? Because if that is the case it is worse there. Take Saudi Arabia for instance. The wahhabist doctrine teaches hatred. As for Israel, don't make me laugh. The country is in a mess today becasue of the left parties. Moshe Dayan, Rabin etc... did not do the right thing which was to ensure that Israel be the land of Jews. They did not realize that Arabs and Jews could never live in peace together. So them and their predecessors allowed many Arabs to remain within the frontiers of Israel. Even a country like Egypt, the Coptic Christians are presecuted by the majority and virtually all countries in the region are influenced by Islamism. So when you say that the Jewish state is fueling hatred and fundemetalism all I can say is eye for an eye. I wish that Israel was even more fundementalist for the jews and that they would have solved the problem back in 48 and 67 by booting out all of the Palestinians until a solution would have been reached by all parties.

i will always be a friend of Israel. Jews and Christians share the same values.

Apoleb
Jul 13th, 2006, 11:08 PM
She was shocked, oh really??? Has she been to another country in the Middle East? Because if that is the case it is worse there. Take Saudi Arabia for instance. The wahhabist doctrine teaches hatred. As for Israel, don't make me laugh. The country is in a mess today becasue of the left parties. Moshe Dayan, Rabin etc... did not do the right thing which was to ensure that Israel be the land of Jews. They did not realize that Arabs and Jews could never live in peace together. So them and their predecessors allowed many Arabs to remain within the frontiers of Israel. Even a country like Egypt, the Coptic Christians are presecuted by the majority and virtually all countries in the region are influenced by Islamism. So when you say that the Jewish state is fueling hatred and fundemetalism all I can say is eye for an eye. I wish that Israel was even more fundementalist for the jews and that they would have solved the problem back in 48 and 67 by booting out all of the Palestinians until a solution would have been reached by all parties.

i will always be a friend of Israel. Jews and Christians share the same values.

Your calls for ethnic cleansing are disgusting.

Fingon
Jul 14th, 2006, 12:17 AM
Hezbollah is stronger than the Lebanese army. The government can do nothing by force to Hezbollah or there would be a new civil war.


well, if Hezbollah is stronger than the Lebanese army and effectively has control of the country, and the Lebanese government can't do anything about it, then the real government of Lebanon is Hezbollah. If the Lebanese government can't or doesn't want to stop Hezbollah, then Israel has to do it.

Maybe they should apply the same policy as with other terrorist group, assassinate their leaders, then see if they are so brave when they can't drive a car without fearing a missile will tear them in pieces, it's so easy to be brave when you are sending youngsters to die and hidding behind civilians, when their own ass is on the line they might rethink their policies.

Apoleb
Jul 14th, 2006, 12:23 AM
well, if Hezbollah is stronger than the Lebanese army and effectively has control of the country, and the Lebanese government can't do anything about it, then the real government of Lebanon is Hezbollah. If the Lebanese government can't or doesn't want to stop Hezbollah, then Israel has to do it

They don't have control of the country. They have a lot of control though in the South; not only militarily, but also on the civil level. The government ofcourse still controls everything civil, however, the army is week and powerless. They can't stand against Hezbollah which has been stuffed with weapons from Iran for like a decade now.

The majority of Lebanese support disarming Hezbollah, but Hezbollah refuses to disarm with dialogue, and the country can't afford another civil war, especially that the party has the support of the big majority of the Shiites. (approx. 30% of the population)

*JR*
Jul 14th, 2006, 12:24 AM
... then the real government of Lebanon is Hezbollah.
Which in turn is controlled by some combination of Syria and Iran.

NyCPsU
Jul 14th, 2006, 12:28 AM
I'm sorry but you are (posters from Israel) definitely biased having grown up in Israel, a friend of mine went there and was shocked at the propaganda they teach in Israeli schools. She also commented that a good sector (20-25%) think Israel is the problem (specifically he radical right) which perpetuates turmoil...

Frankly Israel gets away with terrorist acts without real consequences from the international community, that country other than the US would get away with.

Both the US and Israel act without thinking, without intelligence, and the consequence is death, destruction, and the fueling of fundamentalism and hatred.

They will never see peace with war.

But the bus bombings of innocent Israelis are acceptable means to reach peace :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

V.Melb
Jul 14th, 2006, 12:43 AM
I feel sorry for the Lebanese Christians. Since the country and government used to have an upperclass Christian-Arab population of around 40% running the country efficiently, many muslims crossed the border and pushed the majority even more in favour of muslims.
Now the percentage of Christians is even less, and you keep your cross tucked well under your shirt collar because the day of the Christians dominating Lebanons political scene are well over... since the French left the lebonese people, the country has steadily declined into another muslim state.... No wonder half of the lebanese christians have moved the Canada, Australia, U.S and elsewhere.
Hesbollah 'hide' behind the weak lebonese government... I assure you, Its the muslims that dominate and intimidate the 'original' lebonese people now. The remaining Christian population (about 30% i think) keep their mouths shut.
Lebanon is now controlled by numerous Muslim factions in originating from other muslim countries and the 'liberal' arab/european culture of Beirut is dying. I bet many of the Lebanese-Christians wish the French never left them.

Apoleb
Jul 14th, 2006, 01:13 AM
I feel sorry for the Lebanese Christians. Since the country and government used to have an upperclass Christian-Arab population of around 40% running the country efficiently, many muslims crossed the border and pushed the majority even more in favour of muslims.
Now the percentage of Christians is even less, and you keep your cross tucked well under your shirt collar because the day of the Christians dominating Lebanons political scene are well over... since the French left the lebonese people, the country has steadily declined into another muslim state.... No wonder half of the lebanese christians have moved the Canada, Australia, U.S and elsewhere.
Hesbollah 'hide' behind the weak lebonese government... I assure you, Its the muslims that dominate and intimidate the 'original' lebonese people now. The remaining Christian population (about 30% i think) keep their mouths shut.
Lebanon is now controlled by numerous Muslim factions in originating from other muslim countries and the 'liberal' arab/european culture of Beirut is dying. I bet many of the Lebanese-Christians wish the French never left them.

Please inform yourself before coming with such BS. The Lebanese Muslims did not come from other countries. They were there since the country was formed.

Princess Sarah.
Jul 14th, 2006, 01:25 AM
I feel sorry for the Lebanese Christians. Since the country and government used to have an upperclass Christian-Arab population of around 40% running the country efficiently, many muslims crossed the border and pushed the majority even more in favour of muslims.
Now the percentage of Christians is even less, and you keep your cross tucked well under your shirt collar because the day of the Christians dominating Lebanons political scene are well over... since the French left the lebonese people, the country has steadily declined into another muslim state.... No wonder half of the lebanese christians have moved the Canada, Australia, U.S and elsewhere.
Hesbollah 'hide' behind the weak lebonese government... I assure you, Its the muslims that dominate and intimidate the 'original' lebonese people now. The remaining Christian population (about 30% i think) keep their mouths shut.
Lebanon is now controlled by numerous Muslim factions in originating from other muslim countries and the 'liberal' arab/european culture of Beirut is dying. I bet many of the Lebanese-Christians wish the French never left them.

HELLO! They were there originally! Get your information from a proper source rather than pulled out of your arse!

*JR*
Jul 14th, 2006, 01:35 AM
HELLO! They were there originally! Get your information from a proper source rather than pulled out of your arse!
The Druse were. But many Palestinians fled there with Arafat when King Hussein expelled the PLO from Jordan in Sept. 1970. (Thus the name of the terrorist group Black September, which carried out the massacre of Israeli athletes competing in the 1972 Munich Olympics).

Apoleb
Jul 14th, 2006, 01:37 AM
The Druse were. But many Palestinians fled there with Arafat when King Hussein expelled the PLO from Jordan in Sept. 1970. (Thus the name of the terrorist group Black September, which carried out the massacre of Israeli athletes competing in the 1972 Munich Olympics).

The Palestinian refugees do not have Lebanese citizenship. Lebanese Muslims, including Druze, Shia, and Sunnis, are all originally Lebanese and didn't come from anywhere.

Deimos
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:04 AM
I don't blame Israel (I'm not Israeli, either).

It's ridiculous that the Lebanese government made no effort to root out terrorists within its borders. Why was this - because they supported them, if not materially, then ideologically?

Then when Israel strikes back, they throw up their hands and say they're not aligned with Hezbollah. The worst thing is that Lebanese *civilians* have to suffer for the idiocy of their rulers.

I won't even get started on that effete organisation, the UN. Ugh.

Princess Sarah.
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:08 AM
The Druse were. But many Palestinians fled there with Arafat when King Hussein expelled the PLO from Jordan in Sept. 1970. (Thus the name of the terrorist group Black September, which carried out the massacre of Israeli athletes competing in the 1972 Munich Olympics).
Lebanon was a country before 1970

Scotso
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:09 AM
I'm sorry but you are (posters from Israel) definitely biased having grown up in Israel, a friend of mine went there and was shocked at the propaganda they teach in Israeli schools. She also commented that a good sector (20-25%) think Israel is the problem (specifically he radical right) which perpetuates turmoil...

Oh great, you base your opinion on Israel on hearsay from a person who "went there."

I wasn't raised in Israel.

Scotso
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:11 AM
They don't have control of the country. They have a lot of control though in the South; not only militarily, but also on the civil level. The government ofcourse still controls everything civil, however, the army is week and powerless. They can't stand against Hezbollah which has been stuffed with weapons from Iran for like a decade now.

The majority of Lebanese support disarming Hezbollah, but Hezbollah refuses to disarm with dialogue, and the country can't afford another civil war, especially that the party has the support of the big majority of the Shiites. (approx. 30% of the population)

Well then it switches back to the original statement. If Lebanon can't act, Israel should.

Scotso
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:12 AM
And to people saying Israelis are biased on this issue... of course they are. Maybe if your families were being blown up by suicide bombers you would understand why.

Apoleb
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:45 AM
Did I not state that there was only around a 40% Christian population there before?!
pfff... I never doubted that there was a Lebanese muslim population. I refer to the Palestinian and Syrian peoples who moved to Lebanon following wars. There were also Iranians (yes, a large population of Iranians moved into Lebanon) ... so dont shit me about there being no muslim immigrants into Lebanon. The were an addition to the non-extremist lebanese muslim population.
Most of you are american aren't you? ....

man, you dont know what you're talking about. Yes, you first implied that a large part of the Lebanese Muslim population are "unoriginal" and came from other countries. You said that an unoriginal Muslim population was ruling over the "original" Christian population. That is ridiculous. Lebanon from its very inception was a very pluralistic country, with a nearly 50%-50% Christian/Muslim population. The balance swayed in favor of the Muslim population (based on estimates) for about 60/40 (some estimates go to 70/30) largely due to a higher birthrate for Muslims and to the emigration of Christians.

The only important influx of non-Lebanese population into Lebanon happened when Palestinian refugees came in to Lebanon, and a large part of them came in 1948, and not in 1970, as someone erroneously posted before. However, Palestinian refugees do not have Lebanese citizenship, so they aren't Lebanese.

And please, lol, there was never an influx of an Iranian population in Lebanon. If you're implying that Lebanese Shiites are originally Iranian, then you're so dead wrong. There's a considerable Aremenian community however, but they came to the country after the Armenian genocide and thus before the country was made.

Conclusion is that the Lebanese Muslim population is as "original" as the Lebanese Christian population. All of the Lebanese communities, including the Shias, Sunnis and Druzes, were present in the country for CENTURIES before the inception of the country.

The sad thing is that you're talking about a country in an offensive way to a large part of its population when you actually don't know its flag. If you noticed, I have the Lebanese flag next to my name which means I'm Lebanese. I'm not American.

Princess Sarah.
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:02 AM
man, you dont know what you're talking about. Yes, you first implied that a large part of the Lebanese Muslim population are "unoriginal" and came from other countries. You said that an unoriginal Muslim population was ruling over the "original" Christian population. That is ridiculous. Lebanon from its very inception was a very pluralistic country, with a nearly 50%-50% Christian/Muslim population. The balance swayed in favor of the Muslim population (based on estimates) for about 60/40 (some estimates go to 70/30) largely due to a higher birthrate for Muslims and to the emigration of Christians.

The only important influx of non-Lebanese population into Lebanon happened when Palestinian refugees came in to Lebanon, and a large part of them came in 1948, and not in 1970, as someone erroneously posted before. However, Palestinian refugees do not have Lebanese citizenship, so they aren't Lebanese.

And please, lol, there was never an influx of an Iranian population in Lebanon. If you're implying that Lebanese Shiites are originally Iranian, then you're so dead wrong. There's a considerable Aremenian community however, but they came to the country after the Armenian genocide and thus before the country was made.

Conclusion is that the Lebanese Muslim population is as "original" as the Lebanese Christian population. All of the Lebanese communities, including the Shias, Sunnis and Druzes, were present in the country for CENTURIES before the inception of the country.

The sad thing is that you're talking about a country in an offensive way to a large part of its population when you actually don't know its flag. If you noticed, I have the Lebanese flag next to my name which means I'm Lebanese. I'm not American.

well said :bigclap:

spyro
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:09 AM
Israel is getting crazy ... A criminal in certain country kidnap its soldier and then Israel counter attacked with a BLAST to that country just to handle those criminal ... many innocent citizen become victims ... So far more than 50 people died ...

Israel is just the same with the criminal who blast a train in India few days ago ... IMO

sapir1434
Jul 14th, 2006, 09:19 AM
I don't understand how the world can stand by and let a terrorist nation like Israel invade sovereign nations like Lebanon. They have killed nearly 100 civilians for 2 soldiers who were not even kidnapped by the Government of Lebanon. They think they have a god-given right to do as they please, how ignorant considering the atrocities that have occured against Jews in WWII. Bombing parts of the airport? Nice.

It is not one-sided, but terrorist groups and terrorist nations are two seperate entities. Israel has a responsibility to the international community to act in a measured and balanced way, which they clearly have foregone.
:lol: you so so don't know what you are talking about. you have to be there for know. it's just terrible.
:rolleyes:

John A Roark
Jul 14th, 2006, 10:47 AM
So in reading the posts to this point, it is clear that everyone with any appreciable amount of compassion or brains realizes Israel is within the right--all the way around.
It is a very simple proposition: address the problem that started the incident...

GIVE THE SOLDIERS BACK!!

If that does not happen? The Hezbollah and Hamas deserve everything they have happen to them.

Nimrodg
Jul 14th, 2006, 11:14 AM
Israel is getting crazy ... A criminal in certain country kidnap its soldier and then Israel counter attacked with a BLAST to that country just to handle those criminal ... many innocent citizen become victims ... So far more than 50 people died ...

Israel is just the same with the criminal who blast a train in India few days ago ... IMO

It's not only about the soldiers. The main target of the attacks of the IDF is to throw out the Hezbollah from the border. If they will still be there, they will still make a threat on the life of People and soldiers in Israel.

nbaker53
Jul 14th, 2006, 11:44 AM
Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist groups.
It's about time someone teaches them a lesson.
It's interesting that only now Lebanon and Palestine are showing their true colours. It says a lot about the people of Lebanon when they elect terrorists to their Parliament and that the Lebanese government refuses to disarm Hezbollah.
I just hope that they keep going so that they show to the world that their cause isn't exactly wrong after all. I really hope Iran gets involved so someone blows up that President mother fucker.

Lord Nelson
Jul 14th, 2006, 12:44 PM
man, you dont know what you're talking about. Yes, you first implied that a large part of the Lebanese Muslim population are "unoriginal" and came from other countries. You said that an unoriginal Muslim population was ruling over the "original" Christian population. That is ridiculous. Lebanon from its very inception was a very pluralistic country, with a nearly 50%-50% Christian/Muslim population. The balance swayed in favor of the Muslim population (based on estimates) for about 60/40 (some estimates go to 70/30) largely due to a higher birthrate for Muslims and to the emigration of Christians.

The only important influx of non-Lebanese population into Lebanon happened when Palestinian refugees came in to Lebanon, and a large part of them came in 1948, and not in 1970, as someone erroneously posted before. However, Palestinian refugees do not have Lebanese citizenship, so they aren't Lebanese.

And please, lol, there was never an influx of an Iranian population in Lebanon. If you're implying that Lebanese Shiites are originally Iranian, then you're so dead wrong. There's a considerable Aremenian community however, but they came to the country after the Armenian genocide and thus before the country was made.

Conclusion is that the Lebanese Muslim population is as "original" as the Lebanese Christian population. All of the Lebanese communities, including the Shias, Sunnis and Druzes, were present in the country for CENTURIES before the inception of the country.

The sad thing is that you're talking about a country in an offensive way to a large part of its population when you actually don't know its flag. If you noticed, I have the Lebanese flag next to my name which means I'm Lebanese. I'm not American.
Thehigher muslim birth rate is of course a factor though of course there are almost a million Syrians living in lebanon and at elast 100'000 Palestinians refugees.
By the way I have a question. Why is Muslim biirth rate pretty high in most Muslim nations. In school we were led to believe that it is to help take care of the farm. I suspect that is no longer the case since a lot of people now live in the cities. Some say that it is becasue they are poor. Well a country like Ukraine is also poor and people don't have so many kids. Even Norht Korea, the birth rate is lower than avrage Mulsim birth rate.

DuLeafs
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:10 PM
Israel govt :mad: :fiery: :(

Go home :armed:

Unbelievable... bombing the airport & Beirut, destroying the main highway from Beirut to Damascus, blocking the harbor.

All for 2 kidnapped Israelian soldiers :confused:

Get real Israel govt :(

DuLeafs
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:11 PM
And I was supposed to be in Beirut for one month... this month! :scared:

Thank God I didnt do it

gsm
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:15 PM
hamas and hezbollah have been spoiling for a fight, i am glad they got what they wanted.

Black Mamba.
Jul 14th, 2006, 02:39 PM
Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist groups.
It's about time someone teaches them a lesson.
It's interesting that only now Lebanon and Palestine are showing their true colours. It says a lot about the people of Lebanon when they elect terrorists to their Parliament and that the Lebanese government refuses to disarm Hezbollah.
I just hope that they keep going so that they show to the world that their cause isn't exactly wrong after all. I really hope Iran gets involved so someone blows up that President mother fucker.


All these groups just want to see violence and the death of innocent civilans. This makes me sick.

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:06 PM
All these groups just want to see violence and the death of innocent civilans. This makes me sick.

You know :rolleyes: And why everyone on earth is not totally condemning the Israelis, I don't know :shrug: Two SOLDIERS are "kidnapped" ( if they are truly soldiers, they are taken prisoner)- they are SOLDIERS for fuck sake---- and now they are slaughtering Lebanese children and blowing up their major airport? Talk about disproportionate. I blame Bush :fiery: because he's established the idea of why bother with negotiation :rolleyes: Oh well, while Israel knows they are wrong, wrong, wrong, they also know that duhbya and his administration will just blindly support them and never censure them as they should :rolleyes: :mad:

samsung101
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Retreat and give back Gaza, retreat from West Bank...
and that was supposed to give Israel peace! Just
give it back! Send over money for assistance! See, peace!

Israel stands by their treaties, the Arab sections don't.
Why bother w/them.

As long as Lebanon and other nations allow Hamas and
Hezbollah to masquerade as political parties and social
organizations, while building up deadly caches of weapons
and bombs, with help from Syria and Iran...there can't
be peace.

This is what has been going on for decades.

It's nothing new.

What is sad to see is the typical European and UN
response: blame Israel 1st and last.

Where is the UN resolution condemning the mutilation
of unarmed American soldiers? The beheading of foreign
workers in Iraq or Mexico for that matter? Where is the
resolution condemning terrorist training camps in Lebanon and elsewhere in the Middle East aimed at children and
teens?

Nowhere in sight.

John Bolton is right. I hope he keeps it up at the UN.
Bush is right to stand up for Israel.

Israel should defend itself, and take back the land where
the attacks are coming from. The UN is going to blame
you anyway, get the job done the best you can right now.

However, ask most Americans to find Israel or Lebanon
or Gaza or Jordan on a map, and we couldn't do it.

Apoleb
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:23 PM
Retreat and give back Gaza, retreat from West Bank...
and that was supposed to give Israel peace! Just
give it back! Send over money for assistance! See, peace!

wow! Don't be so naive. Israel never retreated from the West Bank. In fact, they built settlements all over it since they occupied it, and they still want all the strategically important areas. If they could have taken it all, they would have done that, but they would need to ethnic cleanse millions of people or exterminate them. Probably they'dve done that too if it wouldn't totally diminish Israel in the international public view. The only reason they got out of Gaza too is that there are a million Palestinians and a bit, and they can never do anything to them.

NyCPsU
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:32 PM
You know :rolleyes: And why everyone on earth is not totally condemning the Israelis, I don't know :shrug: Two SOLDIERS are "kidnapped" ( if they are truly soldiers, they are taken prisoner)- they are SOLDIERS for fuck sake---- and now they are slaughtering Lebanese children and blowing up their major airport? Talk about disproportionate. I blame Bush :fiery: because he's established the idea of why bother with negotiation :rolleyes: Oh well, while Israel knows they are wrong, wrong, wrong, they also know that duhbya and his administration will just blindly support them and never censure them as they should :rolleyes: :mad:

i was waiting for someone to blame Bush :rolleyes:
Bush totally is the cause for the violence there! Your right! I mean how long has the violence in that region been going on for now? Moron.

we got a really bad thunderstorm here the other day with a tornado and i just know that bush was behind it ;) :devil:

My favorite ice cream place got rid of my favorite flavor. Damn Bush to Hell! :tape:

Apoleb
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Thehigher muslim birth rate is of course a factor though of course there are almost a million Syrians living in lebanon and at elast 100'000 Palestinians refugees.
By the way I have a question. Why is Muslim biirth rate pretty high in most Muslim nations. In school we were led to believe that it is to help take care of the farm. I suspect that is no longer the case since a lot of people now live in the cities. Some say that it is becasue they are poor. Well a country like Ukraine is also poor and people don't have so many kids. Even Norht Korea, the birth rate is lower than avrage Mulsim birth rate.

well again for the nth time, the Palestinian refugees do not have Lebanese citizenship so they don't count as part of the Lebanese Muslim population. There are about a million worker overall (not all of them Syrian) but a good amount of them are Syrians, however, they are Syrians and not Lebanese. The big majority of them do not have Lebanese citizenship, and a lot of them went to Syria after Syria retreated.

And for the thing about birthrate, it's not only Muslims. Most very religious people tend to bring a lot of children, including Catholics and Orthodox Jews in Israel, for example. And it also has a lot to do with the way of life. The Shiites in Lebanon have the highest birth rate, mainly because poverty and rural life. Also the fact that in a lot of households women don't work, has a lot to do with the issue.

Maryamator
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:35 PM
And I was supposed to be in Beirut for one month... this month! :scared:

Thank God I didnt do it
:hug: thank god:) some of my friends are stuk there :sad:

samsung101
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:40 PM
Syria and Iran are using their ******* to
fight Israel.

Again, what's new?

samsung101
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:41 PM
Uh, that isn't a bad word - *****?

I'm having a hard figuring out how
that is even construed as a bad word?

Whatever...it's your board.

Oh well, their surrogates? How's that?

DuLeafs
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:53 PM
:hug: thank god:) some of my friends are stuk there :sad:

:)

I have a couple of friends stuck there too :sad: :sad: :sad: One is one of my best friends :scared: :sad: :sad: It's so sad, i am worried.

DuLeafs
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:54 PM
Syria and Iran are using their ******* to
fight Israel.

Again, what's new?

Are u crazy???? :eek: :( :confused: :confused:

jmd
Jul 14th, 2006, 03:59 PM
Israel govt :mad: :fiery: :(

Go home :armed:

Unbelievable... bombing the airport & Beirut, destroying the main highway from Beirut to Damascus, blocking the harbor.

All for 2 kidnapped Israelian soldiers :confused:

Get real Israel govt :(

It is not because of the 2 kidnapped soldiers, it is because the gov. is alowing Hezbola to gain power, and to do what they want. They are loosing control, israel can not have a terrorist org. run the country.

Nimrodg
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:03 PM
Israel govt :mad: :fiery: :(

Go home :armed:

Unbelievable... bombing the airport & Beirut, destroying the main highway from Beirut to Damascus, blocking the harbor.

All for 2 kidnapped Israelian soldiers :confused:

Get real Israel govt :(

Yeah, we should get real over here. Israel such a stupid nation, they should let the Hezbollah keeping arrange near the border, to let them to kidnapp soldiers and not to do anything against that!
If the Lebanese govt didn't do anything against the Hezbollah getting rolled the southern border with Israel, so Israel will do it.
I want to see what you would do if rockets will fly above your heads. Our targer is to destroy the Hezbollah, and it's not our fault that they are hiding inside of neighborhood.
When Israel planned to attack some of the Hezbollah targets, planes flew over the place and called the citizens to leave the place!!! can you show me another country that do that?

You know :rolleyes: And why everyone on earth is not totally condemning the Israelis, I don't know :shrug: Two SOLDIERS are "kidnapped" ( if they are truly soldiers, they are taken prisoner)- they are SOLDIERS for fuck sake---- and now they are slaughtering Lebanese children and blowing up their major airport? Talk about disproportionate. I blame Bush :fiery: because he's established the idea of why bother with negotiation :rolleyes: Oh well, while Israel knows they are wrong, wrong, wrong, they also know that duhbya and his administration will just blindly support them and never censure them as they should :rolleyes: :mad:

Prisioners? really? well, let me tell you something. 20 years ago there was a pilot who named Ron Arad, who was kiddnapped by Lebanese terrorists. Until this days no one knows where he is, no information and no nothing about him.
Usually, when they kiddnapping someone, he isn't surviving over there because of the poor conditions.

Israel's goal is not to kill civilians. The goal is to keep the civilians in Israel safe, and destroying the Hezbollah is a way that Israel's must act to do, if they want to keep their civilians safe.

wow! Don't be so naive. Israel never retreated from the West Bank. In fact, they built settlements all over it since they occupied it, and they still want all the strategically important areas. If they could have taken it all, they would have done that, but they would need to ethnic cleanse millions of people or exterminate them. Probably they'dve done that too if it wouldn't totally diminish Israel in the international public view. The only reason they got out of Gaza too is that there are a million Palestinians and a bit, and they can never do anything to them.

We've done that because we don't need to risk our soldiers. Must of the Israeli people believe in the right of the Palestinian people to build a nation.

Tell me, what was the value that Israel got when they left Gaza?
Since then thousands on Qassam rockets flew into Sderot and Ashkelon.
So what will happen if Israel will leave the west bank? Missiles will flew into Jerusalem?

As much as we give you, nothing is enough for the Palestinians and the arabs. They want only more and more.
Iran, Hamas and The Hezbollah think we should be wipe out of the map, so what we should do?
let them to fire rockets over Israeli cities?
The easiest thing to do is to blame Israel and to feel sorry for the poor Palestinians, but you should look at the whole situation. Israel will never attack some nation with no reason(unlike the terrorist) - ONLY IF WE HAVE TO DEFEND OURSELVES!

NyCPsU
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:06 PM
well said nimrodg

DuLeafs
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:09 PM
It is not because of the 2 kidnapped soldiers, it is because the gov. is alowing Hezbola to gain power, and to do what they want. They are loosing control, israel can not have a terrorist org. run the country.

So they disorder the life of the innocent people?

What Israel is doing now, comes close to terrorism imo.

DuLeafs
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:13 PM
Yeah, we should get real over here. Israel such a stupid nation, they should let the Hezbollah keeping arrange near the border, to let them to kidnapp soldiers and not to do anything against that!
If the Lebanese govt didn't do anything against the Hezbollah getting rolled the southern border with Israel, so Israel will do it.
I want to see what you would do if rockets will fly above your heads. Our targer is to destroy the Hezbollah, and it's not our fault that they are hiding inside of neighborhood.
When Israel planned to attack some of the Hezbollah targets, planes flew over the place and called the citizens to leave the place!!! can you show me another country that do that?

It doesn't make an attack right, if you warn the citizens first :rolleyes: Imagine, your sitting at home, relaxing in the evening in front of the tv, then suddenly u have to go becoz Israel is so polite enough to warn before they attack. Viva.... :rolleyes:

I don't say they can't stand up against Hezbollah, but this is going way way too far!

Apoleb
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:17 PM
We've done that because we don't need to risk our soldiers. Must of the Israeli people believe in the right of the Palestinian people to build a nation.

Tell me, what was the value that Israel got when they left Gaza?
Since then thousands on Qassam rockets flew into Sderot and Ashkelon.
So what will happen if Israel will leave the west bank? Missiles will flew into Jerusalem?

lol, please. Look, I'm one of those who don't consider either party to be good/evil, the blame is on both parties. So I don't buy the crap that Israel is the saint out there and the Arabs are the evil guys.

And to respond to you, remember Golda Meir's words? "The Palestinian people don't exist." So yeah, right, Israel is very adamant about the right for Palestinians to form a state for themselves. For a very large part of the conflict, Israel denied the right of Palestinians to form a state in the West Bank/Gazza. They only seemingly agreed for the 2 state solution later, but they still want a big chunk and the most resourceful part of the West Bank as evident by their settlement plans.

Israel got out of Gaza and will probably get out of parts of the West Bank, not for the saints they aren't. But because they know that there's no hope of capturing these lands because of the very large Palestinian population which would either be expelled or genocided for this to work. A thing Israel can't afford to do to safeguarde some of its reputation as the victim in the whole conflict. So let's not fool ourselves please. Israel is very guilty in this conflict. If they really wanted peace and didn't want to eat more Palestinian land, they would get out of Gazza and West Bank/East Jerusalem once and for all and remove all their settlements from there. But the West Bank is still elusive for so many Israelis.

Nimrodg
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:20 PM
It doesn't make an attack right, if you warn the citizens first :rolleyes: Imagine, your sitting at home, relaxing in the evening in front of the tv, then suddenly u have to go becoz Israel is so polite enough to warn before they attack. Viva.... :rolleyes:

I don't say they can't stand up against Hezbollah, but this is going way way too far!

Imagine, you're taking a ride in a bus, while suddenly someone going on the bus with a big case and blow up the bus. His intention is to kill citizens.
I'm really sorry for the killing of innocent people, but you must understand that we can't just wait that the Hezbollah will destroy Israel.
If the Hezbollah had a care for the people of Lebanon, they wouldn't firing missiles from neighborhoods.

Again, i want peace in this area and i believe it can be achieved, but to do that the Hezbollah must get out of southern Lebanon, and unfourtenatly, to do that Israel must attack. Believe me the IDF is trying to do everything he can to minimize the number of citizens who getting killed in those actions.

I can inform you about many times and many things that Israel has done in favour of rival nations.

Our target is to live with peace with them, not to kill them, but you can't live in peace when someone is firing rockets on your houses, in intention to kill citizens!!!

sapir1434
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:22 PM
It doesn't make an attack right, if you warn the citizens first :rolleyes: Imagine, your sitting at home, relaxing in the evening in front of the tv, then suddenly u have to go becoz Israel is so polite enough to warn before they attack. Viva.... :rolleyes:

I don't say they can't stand up against Hezbollah, but this is going way way too far!
and this is exactly what happens in Israel too now.
lol, please. Look, I'm one of those who don't consider either party to be good/evil, the blame is on both parties. So I don't buy the crap that Israel is the saint out there and the Arabs are the evil guys.

And to respond to you, remember Golda Meir's words? "The Palestinian people don't exist." So yeah, right, Israel is very adamant about the right for Palestinians to form a state for themselves. For a very large part of the conflict, Israel denied the right of Palestinians to form a state in the West Bank/Gazza. They only seemingly agreed for the 2 state solution later, but they still want a big chunk and the most resourceful part of the West Bank as evident by their settlement plans.

Israel got out of Gaza and will probably get out of parts of the West Bank, not for the saints they aren't. But because they know that there's no hope of capturing these lands because of the very large Palestinian population which would either be expelled or genocided for this to work. A thing Israel can't afford to do to safeguarde some of its reputation as the victim in the whole conflict. So let's not fool ourselves please. Israel is very guilty in this conflict. If they really wanted peace and didn't want to eat more Palestinian land, they would get out of Gazza and West Bank/East Jerusalem once and for all and remove all their settlements from there. But the West Bank is still elusive for so many Israelis.
you are talking about somthing that has been said so many years before. it's very different now.

DuLeafs
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:24 PM
Imagine, you're taking a ride in a bus, while suddenly someone going on the bus with a big case and blow up the bus. His intention is to kill citizens.
I'm really sorry for the killing of innocent people, but you must understand that we can't just wait that the Hezbollah will destroy Israel.
If the Hezbollah had a care for the people of Lebanon, they wouldn't firing missiles from neighborhoods.

Again, i want peace in this area and i believe it can be achieved, but to do that the Hezbollah must get out of southern Lebanon, and unfourtenatly, to do that Israel must attack. Believe me the IDF is trying to do everything he can to minimize the number of citizens who getting killed in those actions.

I can inform you about many times and many things that Israel has done in favour of rival nations.

Our target is to live with peace with them, not to kill them, but you can't live in peace when someone is firing rockets on your houses, in intention to kill citizens!!!

I get your piont, i want the same for both nations: peace... :sad: But there is a long way to go. It is always eye for an eye.... Where does it end? Will it end by bombing your neighbour? Don't think so...

Nimrodg
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:27 PM
lol, please. Look, I'm one of those who don't consider either party to be good/evil, the blame is on both parties. So I don't buy the crap that Israel is the saint out there and the Arabs are the evil guys.

And to respond to you, remember Golda Meir's words? "The Palestinian people don't exist." So yeah, right, Israel is very adamant about the right for Palestinians to form a state for themselves. For a very large part of the conflict, Israel denied the right of Palestinians to form a state in the West Bank/Gazza. They only seemingly agreed for the 2 state solution later, but they still want a big chunk and the most resourceful part of the West Bank as evident by their settlement plans.

Israel got out of Gaza and will probably get out of parts of the West Bank, not for the saints they aren't. But because they know that there's no hope of capturing these lands because of the very large Palestinian population which would either be expelled or genocided for this to work. A thing Israel can't afford to do to safeguarde some of its reputation as the victim in the whole conflict. So let's not fool ourselves please. Israel is very guilty in this conflict. If they really wanted peace and didn't want to eat more Palestinian land, they would get out of Gazza and West Bank/East Jerusalem once and for all and remove all their settlements from there. But the West Bank is still elusive for so many Israelis.

I'm not saying that Israel is saint. Every nation has their own sides in the conflict, i'm well aware to that.
Golda Meir? :lol: Come on, get real, it was 30 years ago and things are damned changed.
Ariel Sharon:
We can also reassure our Palestinian partners that we understand the importance of territorial contiguity in the West Bank for a viable Palestinian state." --June 4, 2003


Israel has done many mistakes since they are recognized as a country. BUT - all i see in the foreign news that everyone is blaming Israel, let's not make the Palestinians as SAINTS

Apoleb
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:32 PM
Golda Meir? Come on, get real, it was 30 years ago and things are damned changed.


The point of bringing Golda Meir was to show that Israel in the history of this conflict did not want to grant anything to the Palestinians, and they only wanted to do this now, because they know that they are there to stay in the West Bank and Gaza and can do nothing about it. But even now, they still want to get every land with a value and leave the Palestinians the trash of the West Bank in a barely viable state. The bigger point is that the Israeli policy has been driven to capture more land in the West Bank and Gazza, rather than making peace as a lot of people here naively assume.

Nimrodg
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:41 PM
The point of bringing Golda Meir was to show that Israel in the history of this conflict did not want to grant anything to the Palestinians, and they only wanted to do this now, because they know that they are there to stay in the West Bank and Gaza and can do nothing about it. But even now, they still want to get every land with a value and leave the Palestinians the trash of the West Bank in a barely viable state. The bigger point is that the Israeli policy has been driven to capture more land in the West Bank and Gazza, rather than making peace as a lot of people here naively assume.

Israel's goal is not to capture land in the west bank and Gaza. Maybe it was, but things have changed and the Israeli Govt understood that there will be in those lands a Palestinian nation.

All we can hope that this conflict will end in the near future, and all this region will live in peace. (Amen :) )

PointBlank
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:56 PM
People in this thread are so ignorant to this its laughable. :lol:

Nimrodg
Jul 14th, 2006, 04:59 PM
People in this thread are so ignorant to this its laughable. :lol:

Hmm, hope that you aren't reffering to me :devil:


And there's a chance that Naserallah is gone :angel:

Conchi Party
Jul 14th, 2006, 05:12 PM
People are ignorant. I was in a nation where they're were serious racial and ethnic tensions and killings between Muslims and Hindus. Fundamentalists resort to violence and kill because of ideology, money, and land. The roots of global tension, hatred, and disharmony is religion, and right wing governments that perpetuate the notion that individual rights to exploit one and other are sacred and right.

Israel is a fundamentalist nation, Hezbollah and Hamas are fundamentalist groups. In the case of Lebanon the argument that the weakness of a nation state to control terrorist organizations gives permission for Israel to invade another nation is severly flawed. Despite the calls for ethnic cleansing by Lord Nelson and Samsung, and the indoctrinated opinions of Israelis who live in fear (of which I am sympathetic), history has taught us that the bombing and killing of civilians only helps create hundreds of Osama Bin Laden's of the future. Violence is rarely the solution.

Does Bush have a hand in this? Absolutely ( although I think Bush is rather stupid, it is the republican right that is the real danger) he is a warmonger who set off the aggressive nature of today's geopolitics with his unsupported andflagrat invasion of Iraq.

It is almost as if only another nuclear bomb will shake the world into reality....

spyro
Jul 14th, 2006, 05:23 PM
Did someone just mentioned Bush ???? :lol: . It's so laughable. He'll just sit back and relax, because it's Israel that's doing a bad work ... Have you ever heard doing REAL action to Israel ... nope, never... not until a tiger has a wing and can fly .... :lol:

Kinda Dejavu when Israel really targetting hizbullah by Hitting the country, yet i got a flashback when Bush trying to find a mass murder bioligical weapon in Iraq, and WHAT IS THE RESULT ??? BIG Zeroooooooooo, and yes, he destroyed the countries, killing numerous innocent people, and also his own army :fiery: ...

so Stupid ... Stupid Stupid .... What is next Israel .... Bombing India, Afganistan, Indonesia, Philipine, France, Malaysia, Thailand ??? You know, those country has some terrorists inside .... ???? :fiery:

Sorry, i know some Israel people are good people, it's just the government that make it, so bad image ....

Hopefully Karma will get those who the REAL ignorants ....

Nimrodg
Jul 14th, 2006, 05:30 PM
Did someone just mentioned Bush ???? :lol: . It's so laughable. He'll just sit back and relax, because it's Israel that's doing a bad work ... Have you ever heard doing REAL action to Israel ... nope, never... not until a tiger has a wing and can fly .... :lol:

Kinda Dejavu when Israel really targetting hizbullah by Hitting the country, yet i got a flashback when Bush trying to find a mass murder bioligical weapon in Iraq, and WHAT IS THE RESULT ??? BIG Zeroooooooooo, and yes, he destroyed the countries, killing numerous innocent people, and also his own army :fiery: ...

so Stupid ... Stupid Stupid .... What is next Israel .... Bombing India, Afganistan, Indonesia, Philipine, France, Malaysia, Thailand ??? You know, those country has some terrorists inside .... ???? :fiery:

Sorry, i know some Israel people are good people, it's just the government that make it, so bad image ....

Hopefully Karma will get those who the REAL ignorants ....


Hezbollah confirmed that the Headquarters builidng IN Beirut was destroyed.

Israel ain't just bombing for "fun" - i can assure you that.

spyro
Jul 14th, 2006, 05:39 PM
Hezbollah confirmed that the Headquarters builidng IN Beirut was destroyed.

Israel ain't just bombing for "fun" - i can assure you that.


I don't think i could believe Hizbullah confirmation :confused: ... So what after this ? Will Israel finish the work after this ? (I doubt that) What about the innocent people affected by this so called Hizbullah HQ destroyment ? :sad:

samsung101
Jul 14th, 2006, 06:04 PM
Syrian ambassador says Hezbollah (is that now the
official army of Lebanon...guess so) could strike Israeli
nuke sites.

Spread radiation all over.

To this Israel is supposed to just sit and wait and
hope for peace?

So, they're egging Israel on to hit the nuke sites
in Iran.

We could bomb all of your nation, says Syria and
Lebanon and Hamas and Hezbollah.... we will continue
bombing and kidnapping they say.. The UN says,
bad, bad Israel, don't respond so strongly. Stop it.



There really is no doubt Syria and Iran are pushing this.

To deter from the Iran-UN showdown (where the UN will
say pretty,pretty please don't build military nuke facilities,
or we'll, well, we'll have to slap you on the wrist)......
To allow Iran more time to build up. To allow North
Korea more time to build up. To keep the anti-Bush
sentiment building at the ridiculous United Nations,
and the Arab/China/Russia block voting against the
US items.

It's working.



With North Korea, China, and Venezuela and Cuba
smiling all the while.

World War III took a big step forward.

Can we finally admit that Israel giving up land does
not mean peace.

One side wants to live in peace, and continue to
build a prosperous nation.

The other side wants to eliminate all the people who
live in the other nation, and remove them from the
region, and create violence any chance they get.

Lord Nelson
Jul 14th, 2006, 06:18 PM
People are ignorant. I was in a nation where they're were serious racial and ethnic tensions and killings between Muslims and Hindus. Fundamentalists resort to violence and kill because of ideology, money, and land. The roots of global tension, hatred, and disharmony is religion, and right wing governments that perpetuate the notion that individual rights to exploit one and other are sacred and right.

Israel is a fundamentalist nation, Hezbollah and Hamas are fundamentalist groups. In the case of Lebanon the argument that the weakness of a nation state to control terrorist organizations gives permission for Israel to invade another nation is severly flawed. Despite the calls for ethnic cleansing by Lord Nelson and Samsung, and the indoctrinated opinions of Israelis who live in fear (of which I am sympathetic), history has taught us that the bombing and killing of civilians only helps create hundreds of Osama Bin Laden's of the future. Violence is rarely the solution.

Does Bush have a hand in this? Absolutely ( although I think Bush is rather stupid, it is the republican right that is the real danger) he is a warmonger who set off the aggressive nature of today's geopolitics with his unsupported andflagrat invasion of Iraq.

It is almost as if only another nuclear bomb will shake the world into reality....
What does Iraq have to do with Israel|Lebanon. They are both different problems. I fail to understand in what way the Republican right is responsible for what is goiung on in the area. In any case the democrats are also pro Isareli if you did not realize it.

India should have gotten rid of its muslim population in 1947 just as Pakistan got rid of the Hindus and Sikhs. The Pakistani part of Punjab was holy to Sikhs but they were all booted out. India would still have ended up with Muslim immigrants but at least there we would nbot have had these problems like Talibanization of Mulsim society, ethnic tensions etc..

But I agree with you that root of global tension is religion and that is why I am a fierce opponent of Islamist fundementalism. At the end of the day we both have similar points. You criticize religious right in the U.S. whereas I go after religious right in Muslim societies. But we both will refrain from criticizing the religious Hindu right in India. :p

hablo
Jul 14th, 2006, 06:24 PM
Israel govt :mad: :fiery: :(

Go home :armed:

Unbelievable... bombing the airport & Beirut, destroying the main highway from Beirut to Damascus, blocking the harbor.

All for 2 kidnapped Israelian soldiers :confused:

Get real Israel govt :(
Exactly. It's totally ridiculous :banghead:

Scotso
Jul 14th, 2006, 06:29 PM
It isn't ridiculous. They're trying to prevent it from happening again. They have the right to defend themselves.

rrfnpump
Jul 14th, 2006, 06:44 PM
It isn't ridiculous. They're trying to prevent it from happening again. They have the right to defend themselves.

You cant compare it in any case, but when german tourists are kidnapped in a country, Germany doesnt send their soldiers into this land....
I know, that diplomacy is hardly possible in this area (especially with fundamental organizations) , but I cant remember if Isreal really tried to solve the problem by any diplomatic steps (could be my lack of information).

In my opinion the kidnappings were just the actuator for things that Isreal planned to do already before. I mean, the attacks and stuff came so fast and immediate after the kidnappings, it was really surprising for me!

Of course I do understand the israeli attitude, but I am not in favor of it
as already said, nobody knows what is happening next.. it can seriously escalate!

Organizing Fed Cup this weekend would never been possible :o

Nimrodg
Jul 14th, 2006, 06:58 PM
You cant compare it in any case, but when german tourists are kidnapped in a country, Germany doesnt send their soldiers into this land....
I know, that diplomacy is hardly possible in this area (especially with fundamental organizations) , but I cant remember if Isreal really tried to solve the problem by any diplomatic steps (could be my lack of information).

In my opinion the kidnappings were just the actuator for things that Isreal planned to do already before. I mean, the attacks and stuff came so fast and immediate after the kidnappings, it was really surprising for me!

Of course I do understand the israeli attitude, but I am not in favor of it
as already said, nobody knows what is happening next.. it can seriously escalate!

Organizing Fed Cup this weekend would never been possible :o

How would Israel solve it by diplomacy? really, They were kiddnapped by a terror organization who are willing to release this soldiers by releasing Terrorists from the Israeli prison. If they will be released those terrorists will act again against Israel.

Israel might have planned it, but this act just gave confirmation that something must have been done. You can't sit and watch rockets flying into Israel from the border. The Lebanese Govt must have act before to put them out of the border area.

Diplomacy is really a good case to use in some cases, but in this one it's isn't, because the Hezbollah is stronger than the Lebanese army

vutt
Jul 14th, 2006, 07:27 PM
How many Israeli own people are already killed/injured because of this "rescue" operation? I have heard over 100 injured already and 4+ killed. Hm...

Frankly do you Nimrodg personally really belive that this operation will solve problem with Hezbollah once and for all? Or maybe you know what other people in Israel belive?

In other words is "average Joe" really 100% behind current military actions?

*JR*
Jul 14th, 2006, 07:41 PM
But I agree with you that root of global tension is religion and that is why I am a fierce opponent of Islamist fundementalism. At the end of the day we both have similar points. You criticize religious right in the U.S. whereas I go after religious right in Muslim societies. But we both will refrain from criticizing the religious Hindu right in India. :p
Meanwhile, did your country repatriate the looted money in Saddam's Suisse bank accounts yet, or will the Iraqi ppl have to wait half a century like the Jewish victims of the Nazi's did? :scratch:

samsung101
Jul 14th, 2006, 07:44 PM
For the likes of Joe Biden and the other usual suspects
trying to say Iraq kept us from doing more...or that Bush
didn't get on the phone fast enough to do more....

Bush has supported the Lebanese new govt.
Bush has supported and pushed Israel to withdraw
settlers.
He has asked the UN to do more to secure peace
there.

For years, not a few days.

The guy is meeting face to face with the powerbrokers
in Russia Biden and Company.

No need for a phone call.

Bush and the USA right now cannot do more than
say what they have. Israel has a right to defend itself
to the hilt. They ask for restraint. Calmly ask for restraint.
Veto stupid UN Israel condemnation motions. That's
about it.

Jimmy Carter & other Democrats said Hamas and
Hezbollah political wings were people they could work
with, it was getting better, good stuff ahead. They
ignored the fact these groups built up their military
wings. For what end? Kidnapping soldiers and killing
people, and taking orders from Iran and Syria. Leave
Gaza. Supposedly to be under UN watch, and instead
it's a free zone for terrorists to thrive and attack
Israel. Bright idea. Nice pact.

Those against a free Iraq and a free Israel have worked
hard to destroy both. With little success, other than
body counts. Govt.'s still go forward, schools stay
open, business exists, and they come across as
only murderers in Iraq who come over from Syria & Iran,
and get money from those two nations to exist.

World War III may indeed start because the UN did
nothing to halt Iran, not in the 90's and not now. Because
it did nothing to halt North Korea, 90's or now. Except
blame the USA, and loudly blame Bush for pointing out
the fact these two nations were up to no good 5 years
ago.


For as much as the media and the left want to blame
Bush, and Israel, even if Israel were not there, the West
would be in this battle.

It is about the fact Islamic Fascists do not want to
exist with The West. Left or Right West...Bush or
Chirac West, they don't want the West to exist. Maybe
some day The West will get that idea.

samsung101
Jul 14th, 2006, 08:00 PM
Chirac ' Israel has gone too far'.

Uh, considering the history of France with Israel,
Nazis, and that little thing called The Holocaust...
Jacques...be quiet.

History is repeating itself. We'll all stand by,
wishing and hoping. Where is Neville Chamberlain?
Jimmuh Carter will do I guess.

Halardfan
Jul 14th, 2006, 09:47 PM
Chirac ' Israel has gone too far'.

Uh, considering the history of France with Israel,
Nazis, and that little thing called The Holocaust...
Jacques...be quiet.

History is repeating itself. We'll all stand by,
wishing and hoping. Where is Neville Chamberlain?
Jimmuh Carter will do I guess.


But the holocaust, grotesque and appalling as it was, is not some free pass here in 2006 for Israel to behave as it wishes.

Israel is behaving as though it is the superpower, with the US playing the timid sidekick, with its half-hearted calls for restraint, and presumambly the multi-billion dollar American cash still flowing into Israel's weapon budget.

By several times over, more innocent Lebanese have been killed in this clash than Israeli's...but watch Fox News and you'd never get that impression. The handful of Israeli lives lost, awful as it is, seem to count to people like Fox, so much more than the dozens of innocent dead in the north.

The death of the innocent people is not an accident, but a direct consequence of Israel's gross over-reaction to provaction by gleeful terrorists. If anything they are playing into the terrorists hands...rallying people to their banner.

Of course its not all Israels fault, its dealing with dangerous ruthless groups...but the whole approach of Israel here has done nothing but damage to Israel...its made a terrible mistake.

tks
Jul 14th, 2006, 10:52 PM
How many Israeli own people are already killed/injured because of this "rescue" operation? I have heard over 100 injured already and 4+ killed. Hm...

Frankly do you Nimrodg personally really belive that this operation will solve problem with Hezbollah once and for all? Or maybe you know what other people in Israel belive?

In other words is "average Joe" really 100% behind current military actions?
2 soldiers had been kiddnaped.
8 soldiers had been killed.
4 people had been killed (including a 4 y.o boy and is granmother)
and over 200 people are injured.

sad numbers :sad:

if I can say the israeli "average Joe" is over 100% behind current military actions.
you people need to understand that israel can't stand it any more.
over 2,ooo,ooo people in north israel are under rockets attacks that been made by a terror organization!
I want to see how another country will react if 2,000,000 people from there peoples will be attacked like here.

I hope it will end soon...

spyro
Jul 15th, 2006, 12:01 AM
Organizing Fed Cup this weekend would never been possible :o

Israel already won over Indonesia ... Indonesia couldn't sent its team to Israel due to pilitical condition there, very not safe. And ITF didn't want to relocate to netral country. :sad: We're going to get sanction from ITF dan has to play from the bottom, i believe it's for the best :sad:

spyro
Jul 15th, 2006, 12:21 AM
Israel attack on Beirut
http://www.detik.com/images/content/2006/07/14/157/2.jpg
http://www.detik.com/images/content/2006/07/14/157/1.jpg
http://www.detik.com/images/content/2006/07/14/157/3.jpg

Anyway, how the Israel soldiers got kidnapped ? I heard it's because they're tresspasing Lebanon border ?

Talula
Jul 15th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Meanwhile, did your country repatriate the looted money in Saddam's Suisse bank accounts yet, or will the Iraqi ppl have to wait half a century like the Jewish victims of the Nazi's did?
:zzz:

Talula
Jul 15th, 2006, 12:35 AM
Do unto others etc.

End result: all of Islamic world despises Israel - and believe it or not, not all did. Now, it's a free for all. Awful thing is, many Israelis are horrified at this. But then again, it's the tick and stupid that always seem to rule.

Talula
Jul 15th, 2006, 12:43 AM
2 soldiers had been kiddnaped.
8 soldiers had been killed.
4 people had been killed (including a 4 y.o boy and is granmother)
and over 200 people are injured.

sad numbers :sad:

if I can say the israeli "average Joe" is over 100% behind current military actions.
you people need to understand that israel can't stand it any more.
over 2,ooo,ooo people in north israel are under rockets attacks that been made by a terror organization!
I want to see how another country will react if 2,000,000 people from there peoples will be attacked like here.

I hope it will end soon...
Your numbers add up to 14. How many have been killed in Lebanon? How many on the so called holiday beaches a few weeks ago? Orphaned Palestinian girl - her WHOLE family!

2,000,000 under attack - grow up. Compare actual DEATH figures in Lebanon and other surrounding countries over the last few decades - huge majority due to Israel forces (Christians, Arabs, and those of whose who think religion is shit) - compare those figures to those deaths of civillians in Israel.

Scotso
Jul 15th, 2006, 01:20 AM
Meanwhile, did your country repatriate the looted money in Saddam's Suisse bank accounts yet, or will the Iraqi ppl have to wait half a century like the Jewish victims of the Nazi's did? :scratch:

:lol: :tape:

Apoleb
Jul 15th, 2006, 01:46 AM
Your numbers add up to 14. How many have been killed in Lebanon? How many on the so called holiday beaches a few weeks ago? Orphaned Palestinian girl - her WHOLE family!

2,000,000 under attack - grow up. Compare actual DEATH figures in Lebanon and other surrounding countries over the last few decades - huge majority due to Israel forces (Christians, Arabs, and those of whose who think religion is shit) - compare those figures to those deaths of civillians in Israel.

yeah. It's totally saddening, shocking and insulting that some people are making Israel look like the victim when it comes to innocent lives lost during those couple of days. 70+ Lebanese people have died in 2 days. Israel, with all its might (its warships, airplanes.. bla bla bla) is attacking a totally defenseless country and some have the nerve to make it look like the victim. :confused: 2 million Israelis are under attack? EVERY person in Lebanon is under threat of losing his/her life. I would chose to be in Israel if I had a choice between Israel or Lebanon atm. This whole disregard to Lebanese souls in this conflict by the media/some people is making me sick. :fiery: It's as if an Israeli has more worth than a Lebanese.

Talula
Jul 15th, 2006, 02:23 AM
yeah. It's totally saddening, shocking and insulting that some people are making Israel look like the victim when it comes to innocent lives lost during those couple of days. 70+ Lebanese people have died in 2 days. Israel, with all its might (its warships, airplanes.. bla bla bla) is attacking a totally defenseless country and some have the nerve to make it look like the victim. :confused: 2 million Israelis are under attack? EVERY person in Lebanon is under threat of losing his/her life. I would chose to be in Israel if I had a choice between Israel or Lebanon atm. This whole disregard to Lebanese souls in this conflict by the media/some people is making me sick. :fiery: It's as if an Israeli has more worth than a Lebanese.
I agree with you. I am ashamed that the political leaders of my country and others affiliated to it, put the lives of people into categories, depending on their dwelling place. I would like to assure you that this is not the view of many, many, many people living here and in other so called 'Western' countries. Personally, my heart and soul is with Lebanon tonight, and all the Lebanese people all over the world. :wavey:

Nir
Jul 15th, 2006, 02:31 AM
Your numbers add up to 14. How many have been killed in Lebanon? How many on the so called holiday beaches a few weeks ago? Orphaned Palestinian girl - her WHOLE family!

2,000,000 under attack - grow up. Compare actual DEATH figures in Lebanon and other surrounding countries over the last few decades - huge majority due to Israel forces (Christians, Arabs, and those of whose who think religion is shit) - compare those figures to those deaths of civillians in Israel.

This is not a contest you know :rolleyes: the thing is that Hezbollah has made its most critical mistake. attacking us days after the hamas kidnapped an israeli soldier and killed two is not a very wise decision. some terror organizations think that now its the time to test the strength of the new government here in Israel. well I say it's a big mistake. Israel has proved that when she is pushed to her limits she attacks and fights for the safety of our people and country. Hezbollah has been provoking us for years and now he has crossed the line. they havn't pushed us to our limits yet but if they try they and all of their supporters better watch out. it's really sad that some innocent people will get hurt both from Israel and Lebanon but in order to restore some peace and quiet, drastic measures must be done. my suggestion for the world is to stay out of it. if russia and other european countries that are calling us to stop the attacks had to deal with what we are dealing they would crash their enemies. we are not looking for the approval of no one, we have to do this for the sake of our country and trust me that the lebanese will earn from this action eventually.

John A Roark
Jul 15th, 2006, 11:00 AM
1948...

1956...

1967...

1973...

The anti-Israelites just won't learn.
YOU LOSE!!
Israel's going to come out on top again, be reviled by the misguided left-wing crowd, etc., etc...
But they will be a nation intact.

Monica_Rules
Jul 15th, 2006, 11:11 AM
Its sad that its come to this. And i think we are well one our way to world war 3 with this.

Syria has already said its going to support Lebanon but hasn't said in what way.

Its just a horrible mess that doesn't look like being resolved soon.

John A Roark
Jul 15th, 2006, 11:28 AM
Where is Neville Chamberlain?
Jimmuh Carter will do I guess.
Can't give you goodrep again so soon, so a "boo-yah!" will have to do.
:worship:

Scotso
Jul 15th, 2006, 01:13 PM
Israel's going to come out on top again, be reviled by the misguided left-wing crowd, etc., etc...
But they will be a nation intact.

I'm extremely left wing... but I support Israel's decision. This isn't about left-vs-right... this is about protecting the people of Israel. If the people on this board had to live through what the Israelis do every day, I don't think they'd be riding their high horses spouting nonsense about Israeli aggression.

Cage
Jul 15th, 2006, 01:16 PM
If there is anyone from either country on the board i hope you are ok

Infiniti2001
Jul 15th, 2006, 01:25 PM
Meanwhile, did your country repatriate the looted money in Saddam's Suisse bank accounts yet, or will the Iraqi ppl have to wait half a century like the Jewish victims of the Nazi's did? :scratch:

OUCH :tape: :kiss: :wavey:

Lord Nelson
Jul 15th, 2006, 01:31 PM
Your numbers add up to 14. How many have been killed in Lebanon? How many on the so called holiday beaches a few weeks ago? Orphaned Palestinian girl - her WHOLE family!

2,000,000 under attack - grow up. Compare actual DEATH figures in Lebanon and other surrounding countries over the last few decades - huge majority due to Israel forces (Christians, Arabs, and those of whose who think religion is shit) - compare those figures to those deaths of civillians in Israel.
Palestinian propoganda let you to believe that her whole family was killed. 30 minutes after the bombing, cameras where there and the girl was encouraged to show her grief and shriek, 'don't leave me alone'. Like that the propoganda effect would serve its cause. I am sure the girl was grieful. But she has many other family members still alive so don't leave me alone sounds kind of hollow. More than half of her family members were not killed. Her father had 2 wives and more then 10 kids, like many other Palestinians. Palestinians have the highest per capita aid in the world and they can then afford to have as many children as possible. The girl's mother is still alive and many of her full siblings too as reported in the news.

Apoleb
Jul 15th, 2006, 03:24 PM
Palestinian propoganda let you to believe that her whole family was killed. 30 minutes after the bombing, cameras where there and the girl was encouraged to show her grief and shriek, 'don't leave me alone'. Like that the propoganda effect would serve its cause. I am sure the girl was grieful. But she has many other family members still alive so don't leave me alone sounds kind of hollow. More than half of her family members were not killed. Her father had 2 wives and more then 10 kids, like many other Palestinians. Palestinians have the highest per caita aid in the world and they can then afford to have as many children as possible. The girl's mother is still alive and many of her full siblings too as reported in the news.

You are disgusting and an idiot. First, you ask for the whole Palestinian population to be genocided and ethnic cleansed, and now this. You are not different than those barbaric Islamic militants. The girl was acting her grief? Gaza is one of the poorest places on earth, so don't come with that aid nonsense.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Israel kills Lebanese civilians



An Israeli air raid has killed at least 13 Lebanese civilians who were fleeing southern border areas.
Women and children were among those killed when the convoy was hit. "Bodies litter the road", an eyewitness said.

Israel has expanded its campaign launched after Hezbollah militants seized two Israeli soldiers. More than 70 Lebanese have been killed.

Hezbollah has responded with rockets. Several have hit the town of Tiberias in the deepest such attack in Israel.

Three Israeli sailors are missing after their ship was hit by a Hezbollah missile on Friday. The body of a fourth was found, according to Israeli media.

The ship caught fire after it was hit by an Iranian-made missile, the Israeli military said.




Israeli jets have also fired rockets on the Lebanon-Syrian border.

"The air force is bombing roads and bridges on the border between Lebanon and Syria to prevent Hezbollah from taking our captured soldiers out of the country," an Israeli army spokeswoman said, quoted by the Agence France Presse news agency.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said the offensive will continue until Hezbollah releases the soldiers and stops firing rockets at Israel.


A number of families were fleeing their village of Marwahin on the Israeli border when their convoy was struck by missiles, a UN spokesman told the BBC.



Local residents told al-Jazeera TV the villagers were targeted after being ordered to leave Marwahin, and refused shelter by the UN forces.

Ahmad Ali Ubayd said many did not own vehicles and a main road has been under continuous bombardment.

"Where is the international justice when children, women, and the elderly are killed?" he said.

Correspondents say there is nowhere safe to go for many trying to flee the south.

In past hostilities much of the mainly Shia population of the south has sought refuge in the capital Beirut's largely Shia southern suburbs, but this time they are under attack too, the BBC's Jim Muir reports from Damour, south of Beirut.

On Saturday, Israeli warplanes also hit the southern suburbs, which are a Hezbollah stronghold.

Earlier, Hezbollah's al-Manar TV says three civilians were killed in an Israeli attack in Hermel, on the border with Syria.

They also carried out raids in the north and the north-east of the country for the first time on Saturday.

A number of bridges, petrol stations and key roads have also been hit, including the main road linking northern Lebanon to Syria.



Thousands of foreigners have fled Beirut, leaving its economy in tatters.

France has said it is ready to evacuate its thousands of nationals from Lebanon.

The presidents of the US and Russia have differed in emphasis in voicing concern about the Mid-East crisis at the G8 summit in St Petersburg.

George W Bush urged Lebanon's Hezbollah to disarm while Vladimir Putin called for a "balanced" use of force by Israel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5182564.stm

Nimrodg
Jul 15th, 2006, 03:33 PM
Can't say anything else than i feel sorry for the Lebanese civilians.

But we are not intend to kill civilians,
while the Hezbollah missiled 800 rockets in the past few days to hurt civilians

Apoleb
Jul 15th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Can't say anything else than i feel sorry for the Lebanese civilians.

But we are not intend to kill civilians,
while the Hezbollah missiled 800 rockets in the past few days to hurt civilians

Cutting all the roads of escape and then asking the civilians to leave within 2 hours before their villages are totally annihilated is not exactly sympathetic to civilians.

Nir
Jul 15th, 2006, 04:25 PM
We are not attacking with full force. for years Hezbollah has been killing citizens and this is ridiculous because we can't let them do that to us, we are stronger and we need to prove it to them. Arabs only understand the language of strength and that's the only way to maintain some peace and quiet in this place. we negociated with Hezbollah and gave them prisoners for the bodies of 3 soldiers and what did we get for doing that? another kidnnaping..We need to show our power to Hezbollah in order for them to understand that messing with us is a big and costly mistake.

NyCPsU
Jul 15th, 2006, 04:46 PM
im sorry but those of you that feel that Israel is in the wrong with this aggression totally shock me
I feel bad that civilian casualties have to happen but that is just as much Lebannon's fault than it is Israel's. The terrorist hide behind the civilians, making it impossible to completely avoid the innnocents. The fact that they put their own people in this harm's way is disgusting to me.
I also think it is hypocritical to condemn Israel for the deaths of these people. It is terrible, dont get me wrong. But it is just as bad as the deaths of hundreds and hundreds of innocent Israelis who were just riding a bus to work or shopping in a mall one day. No one seems to be terribly distraught about those deaths.
As long as Israel is a nation these terrorist groups will never cease to make the Israeli's life one of fear. And if these countries cannot control the terrorist groups within their borders, Israel has the full out right to protect themselves by going into these countries and disposing of them. Again, Israel is not doing this because they want to kill civilians, take land, or for any material or gluttonous gain. They are simply protecting themselves against a regime that will continue to murder and murder Israelis without any backlash or consequence.

JustineTime
Jul 15th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Looks like it's ratcheting up a bit further:

Report: Israel gives Syria ultimatum

London-based Arabic language newspaper Al-Hayat says Israel gave Syria 72 hours to stop Hizbullah’s activity, bring about release of kidnapped IDF troops. ‘Israel will not end military activity until new situation created that will prevent Syria, Iran from using terror organizations to threaten its security,’ newspaper quotes Pentagon official as saying
Roee Nahmias

The London-based Arabic language newspaper Al-Hayat reported Saturday that “Washington has information according to which Israel gave Damascus 72 hours to stop Hizbullah’s activity along the Lebanon-Israel border and bring about the release the two kidnapped IDF soldiers or it would launch an offensive with disastrous consequences.”

The report said “a senior Pentagon source warned that should the Arab world and international community fail in the efforts to convince Syria to pressure Hizbullah into releasing the soldiers and halt the current escalation Israel may attack targets in the country.”

Al-Hayat quoted the source as saying that “the US cannot rule out the possibility of an Israeli strike in Syria,” this despite the fact that the Bush administration has asked Israel to “refrain from any military activity that may result in civilian casualties.”

'Hizbullah made the same mistake'

The report also mentioned that President George W. Bush has repeatedly put much of the blame for the recent escalation on Syria.

“It is no coincidence that the Hizbullah operation comes at a time when the international community is working to impose sanctions on Iran due to its nuclear program and settle the score with Syria by establishing an international court to try those behind the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri,” (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3192598,00.html)the Pentagon source said.

According to the source, Hizbullah made the same mistake as Hamas when it did not predict the ramifications of its actions and ignored the regional and international changes since the fall of Saddam Hussein.

The source said that Israel has indicated that it “will not end its military activity until a new situation is created that will prevent Syria and Iran from using terror organizations, such as Hamas and Hizbullah, to threaten its security.”



:scratch:

Ya know...maybe if those psycho's would just return the two IDF fellas (assuming they haven't already been given starring roles in Off With Their Heads XIX, that is :rolleyes: :mad: ), things would cool off...

But that's just asking W-A-A-Y-Y-Y too much, isn't it? :tape: Everyone(on the Israel-hating left) keeps saying Israel should use restraint, but I don't hear ANYONE on that side of the political spectrum asking why the militants Islamo-fascist wackos don't just hand them back over. :shrug:

But of course it's all Israel's fault, anyway. :tape: :rolleyes: :help:

:bs:

PointBlank
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Hmm, hope that you aren't reffering to me :devil:


And there's a chance that Naserallah is gone :angel:

I most definitley am not. :p. Its most the others.

Ive learned not to argue with people on this board over Israeli issues because they seem to think they always no more than Israelis themselves. :o

PointBlank
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:14 PM
Cutting all the roads of escape and then asking the civilians to leave within 2 hours before their villages are totally annihilated is not exactly sympathetic to civilians.

Im just curious to if you are really over here, in Lebanon that is?

Volcana
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:18 PM
Lebanon has the right to defend itself. The question is, how do they acquire the means? Militarily, Israel attacking Lebanon is like the US invasion of Grenada. Of course Grenada had the right to defend itself, but in the real world, that meant nothing. Lebanon has to be considered a failed state, at this point. The first obligation of any state is the defense of the people, and so far, I don't see the Lebanese government doing much in that regard.

Apoleb
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:20 PM
Im just curious to if you are really over here, in Lebanon that is?

No, but all my family is in Lebanon.

Diam's
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:22 PM
One of my friends is in Beirut :scared: :sad: :(

Shonami Slam
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:24 PM
pointless wars leads to the worst blood-floods.
cease-fire within a few days to a fortnight tops, and nothing will change.

Nimrodg
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:24 PM
I most definitley am not. :p. Its most the others.

Ive learned not to argue with people on this board over Israeli issues because they seem to think they always no more than Israelis themselves. :o

I took it as a target, to give people the news, the truth about what's going on from our side. As far as i see, I changed couple of people minds about the whole story.
Israel's propaganda is in so bad situation, so i think that the Israeli people that can do so, should spread the propaganda from our side.

JustineTime
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:49 PM
I just saw something hilarious on CNN:

Their reporter's in Gaza interviewing a Palestinian cop, and tries to throw him an anti-Israeli softball by asking him how the bombing is disrupting his life. He answers that the bombing began because "our people, the Palestinians" kidnapped Shalid(sp?), the Israeli. :tape: :lol:

Watching the Commie News Network, you'd think Israel had launched an unprovoked incursion into Gaza & Lebanon. :rolleyes:

So they flip back to the skirt in the studio and she's like :scratch: Oh, yeah, what about the kidnapped Israeli? Anyone know how HE's doing? :tape: :retard:

:rolleyes: Oi vey! :help: What a bunch of :retard:'s!

NyCPsU
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:52 PM
i saw that too
turned it off though

:smash:

Kenny
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:55 PM
Israel hits Hezbollah strongholds in Beirut (http://www.yahoo.com/s/240226)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_83;_ylt=Arzuosl8UZsY6UB5G7JxsPgUvio A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

One hour, 12 minutes ago..

PointBlank
Jul 15th, 2006, 05:58 PM
I took it as a target, to give people the news, the truth about what's going on from our side. As far as i see, I changed couple of people minds about the whole story.
Israel's propaganda is in so bad situation, so i think that the Israeli people that can do so, should spread the propaganda from our side.

Yea, but its very hard to change peoples opinions over the internet.

JustineTime
Jul 15th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Hizbullah criticized in Lebanon

Associated Press, THE JERUSALEM POST Jul. 15, 2006

A hero to some, a dangerous militia to others. The bloody fight Hizbullah picked with Israel has aggravated the longtime split in Lebanon over the guerrilla group - and raised worries about whether Lebanon's Western-backed government can survive.


The division runs through the Lebanese Cabinet itself, which is dominated by anti-Syrian politicians - some sharp critics of Hizbullah - but also includes two ministers from the Shi'ite Muslim terror group.

"The government is helpless," said former President Amin Gemayel, a longtime critic of Hizbullah. "Hizbullah took a unilateral action, but its repercussions will affect the entire country."

"Hizbullah is playing a dangerous game that exceeds the border of Lebanon," Druse leader Walid Jumblatt said in comments published Friday. But Jumblatt, a leading anti-Syrian figure, also denounced the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, calling them completely unjustified.

US President George W. Bush expressed worries the Israeli assault could cause the fall of the government, whose formation after elections last year Washington hailed as a major step for Lebanese democracy after years of Syrian control.

But on Friday, he rejected Lebanon's appeals for pressure on Israel for a cease-fire. In a phone conversation with Prime Minister Fouad Saniora, he only reiterated that Israel should limit the impact on civilians.

"The president is not going to make military decisions for Israel," White House press secretary Tony Snow said. He said it was unlikely that either side would agree to a cease-fire now.

Lebanon's government has refused international pressure to disarm Hizbullah and move the army into the south near Israel's border, where the guerrillas have near autonomy. The government has insisted Hizbullah is a legitimate resistance group against Israel.

And with pressure mounting for it to act, emergency Cabinet sessions this week were torn by bickering. It only managed to agree on a statement Wednesday insisting the government did not condone Hizbullah's actions.

With the political divisions in mind, Hizbullah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah warned domestic opponents against "acting in a way that encourages the enemy against Lebanon."

The harder Israel hits Lebanon, the more the division grows among the Lebanese public as well. While hard-core Hizbullah supporters celebrated in the streets, other Lebanese were furious at being dragged into an open and costly confrontation with Israel through a unilateral Hizbullah decision.

"I don't support Hizbullah's operation at all because it gives a pretext for Israeli aggression on Lebanon," said Ibrahim al-Hajj, owner of a shoe shop in the southern Lebanese village of Qleia. "As long as Hizbullah has its weapons and acts according to its leader's whims, there is pretext for Israel to keep on destroying Lebanon," said the 50-year-old Christian Maronite.

A taxi driver in Beirut kept up a tirade against Hizbullah as he drove through the capital's near empty streets.

"Why did you do it now Sayyed Nasrallah?" he asked, refusing to give his name, fearing repercussions. "Why now? Couldn't you have waited a couple of months? Just two months until the tourists had left? Is this resistance? Ruining your country?"

As in everything else in this country, the split was mostly along sectarian lines, with Shi'ites largely supporting the Hizbullah action while Sunnis - whose leadership turned largely anti-Syrian following the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri - Christians and Druse, largely opposed to the group. But that divide is not clear-cut.

"Even if all our homes are destroyed, we will continue to support the resistance," said Mohsem Musulmani, a grocer in the southern port of Sidon, a predominantly Sunni city. "The resistance will always be the pride of the Arab and Islamic nation," he added.

Chibli Mallat, a professor of international law, wrote in an editorial published by The Daily Star Friday that "Hizbullah cannot go it alone and expect the government and the country as a whole to accept the sacrifices that all are suffering. "Moderates among us will be unable to prevent this divisiveness from developing into an unbridgeable gulf within the nation," he said.

*JR*
Jul 15th, 2006, 07:04 PM
I just saw something hilarious on CNN:

Watching the Commie News Network, you'd think Israel had launched an unprovoked incursion into Gaza & Lebanon. :rolleyes:

Gosh, without you around nobody gets called Commies! :o Anyhow, CNN gets blasted for the exact opposite, too. Its veteran anchor Wolf Blitzer (The Situation Room) is on from (4 PM?) to 6 PM, all Eastern Times, and again from 7 to 8 PM every weekay, plus hosts Late Edition every Sunday from 11 AM - 1 PM Eastern. Wolf is a former lobbyist for AIPAC (the chief pro-Israel lobbying group in Washington) and very friendly to its cause. I guess 2U, any news network to the left of Fox is a bunch of Commies! :tape:

JustineTime
Jul 15th, 2006, 07:15 PM
Yeah, Wolf Blitzer, he's a rabid right-winger! :tape: :rolleyes:

Shut up, Commie! :mad:

:p

Rollo
Jul 15th, 2006, 07:26 PM
You cant compare it in any case, but when german tourists are kidnapped in a country, Germany doesnt send their soldiers into this land....


Germany isn't having bombs lobbed into it from Poland either. Your point?

Look, I'm far from 100% behind Israel, but IF a terrorist organization INSIDE Poland WERE lobbing bombs into Berlin, had a headquarters in Warsaw and seats in Parliament, wouldn't you expect the Poles to do something about it?

And if they couldn't do something about it don't you think Germany would be justified in going after this group?

Europeans have forgotten what was evident from Hitler's rise from 1933 to 1939-displays of weakness are an invitation to more attacks.

Israelis aren't going down that path.

Diam's
Jul 15th, 2006, 07:57 PM
The Lebanese are held hostage by Hezbollah which has decided to provoke Israel. :rolleyes: :fiery:

The country has been trying to recover for 15 years from damage to infrastructure of its civil war.
And almost all these new infrastructures have been destroyed in 2 days.
15 years of work for nothing. :( :sad:
It's really sad for Lebanon.

I wonder how long it will last.

Mightymirza
Jul 15th, 2006, 08:00 PM
welll its another thing to attack hejabullah but how come soo many civilians are being killed in this process??I just read they attacked a bus and 15 childrem were killed...Its just preposterous..for gods sake lebanon doesnt even hav an army!!!!!!

Mightymirza
Jul 15th, 2006, 08:04 PM
The Lebanese are held hostage by Hezbollah which has decided to provoke Israel. :rolleyes: :fiery:

The country has been trying to recover for 15 years from damage to infrastructure of its civil war.
And almost all these new infrastructures have been destroyed in 2 days.
15 years of work for nothing. :( :sad:
It's really sad for Lebanon.

I wonder how long it will last.
exactly..So much money and hardwork wasted in 2 days...Why cant israel think b4 attacking??This is just crazyyyy....I no hejabullah are :smash: they r at fault too definately..They are not thinking of their own country while doing these foolish things but people open ur eyes..Its such a mass destruction!!!How can u support such an act..So shameful for israel..Why cant it attack syria instead???hejabullah are mainly alive coz syria is supporting them immensely...Leave poor lebanon alone!!Its an act that just can not be justified!!Bombing cililian areas like tht..Killing children and all..Just disgraceful...

Mightymirza
Jul 15th, 2006, 08:05 PM
plus israel is capable of killing anyone in lebanon...They just bring the helecopter and shoot them in public!!But the Hejabullah leader is still alive inspite of giving provocative speeches soo near the israeli border!!!Makes u wonder even more abt israeli interest!!!Does israel not want peace as well???

Scotso
Jul 15th, 2006, 08:50 PM
welll its another thing to attack hejabullah but how come soo many civilians are being killed in this process??I just read they attacked a bus and 15 childrem were killed...Its just preposterous..for gods sake lebanon doesnt even hav an army!!!!!!

they do, and so does hezbollah.

People keep talking about all the Lebanese civilians being acidentally killed, does no one care about all of the Israeli citizens that have purposefully murdered?

Scotso
Jul 15th, 2006, 08:51 PM
plus israel is capable of killing anyone in lebanon...They just bring the helecopter and shoot them in public!!But the Hejabullah leader is still alive inspite of giving provocative speeches soo near the israeli border!!!Makes u wonder even more abt israeli interest!!!Does israel not want peace as well???

Israeli troops can't just march through Lebanon without resistance. Please. They're doing their best to save innocent lives on both sides.

Israel does want peace... but these terrorists don't even know the word.

Mightymirza
Jul 15th, 2006, 09:05 PM
Israeli troops can't just march through Lebanon without resistance. Please. They're doing their best to save innocent lives on both sides.

Israel does want peace... but these terrorists don't even know the word.
yeah right!!! And how do you know that??You are really too prejudiced..I like israel and its fight for existence!! BUt my frnds family is in lebanon and the terror they r going thru is just soioo horrendous..Just try to be in common lebanese mans shoe for once!! None deserves to live such a life!!!Killing soo many civilians is just soo not right!!!

Mightymirza
Jul 15th, 2006, 09:06 PM
they do, and so does hezbollah.

People keep talking about all the Lebanese civilians being acidentally killed, does no one care about all of the Israeli citizens that have purposefully murdered?
okay lets see the ratio...That doesnt mean they shud attack lebanon..Why cnt they just attack syria???Its a much bigger force!!!!! And its a major backing for hejabullah..Lebanon is just a place!!!!!

Mightymirza
Jul 15th, 2006, 09:09 PM
anyone with even smallest brain knows that this problem wont be solved unless somethings done with seria...As long as its right there all these types of organizations bound to exist!!!!!!

NyCPsU
Jul 15th, 2006, 09:34 PM
yeah right!!! And how do you know that??You are really too prejudiced..I like israel and its fight for existence!! BUt my frnds family is in lebanon and the terror they r going thru is just soioo horrendous..Just try to be in common lebanese mans shoe for once!! None deserves to live such a life!!!Killing soo many civilians is just soo not right!!!

:rolleyes:

that is so hypocritical on so many levels
try to be in the common israeli man's shoes for once
having to worry that every time you board a bus, shop in a mall, leave your house your going to get blown up by some crazy terrorist just because your an israeli citizen

though it doesnt make the lebanon innocents killings any better, im just telling you to look at it from both sides
you people act like israel is doing this just because they feel like it :rolleyes:

JustineTime
Jul 15th, 2006, 11:02 PM
ONE thing's for sure in all this mess:

SADDAM HUSSEIN isn't rattling any sabers or lobbing any scuds! :tape: :lol:

NyCPsU
Jul 15th, 2006, 11:13 PM
ONE thing's for sure in all this mess:

SADDAM HUSSEIN isn't rattling any sabers or lobbing any scuds! :tape: :lol:

:worship: :worship:

*JR*
Jul 15th, 2006, 11:47 PM
ONE thing's for sure in all this mess:

SADDAM HUSSEIN isn't rattling any sabers or lobbing any scuds! :tape: :lol:
Yep. Iraq is a real tourist err, Mecca now! :rolleyes:

JustineTime
Jul 15th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Yep. Iraq is a real tourist err, Mecca now! :rolleyes:

:haha: :haha:

Not the point, you blitherin' idjit! :lol: :rolleyes: :help:

Chris 84
Jul 16th, 2006, 12:06 AM
:rolleyes:

that is so hypocritical on so many levels
try to be in the common israeli man's shoes for once
having to worry that every time you board a bus, shop in a mall, leave your house your going to get blown up by some crazy terrorist just because your an israeli citizen

though it doesnt make the lebanon innocents killings any better, im just telling you to look at it from both sides
you people act like israel is doing this just because they feel like it :rolleyes:

We do need to look at it from both sides.

The actions of Lebanese and Palestinian terrorists is reprehensible, as are the actions of the Israeli state which all too often ends up killing innocent civilians as well.

Innocent civilians of many faiths are being killed and that's just :sad: Forget goodies and baddies, and let's just think of all the many casualties on both sides and have some sympathy.

Conchi Party
Jul 16th, 2006, 12:49 AM
I like the shut up commies comment, I could easily say shut up fascist.

So dumb for uneducated people to use political labels as insults :(

I know this board has a disproportionate amount of right wingers because they are wealthy etc..

Denying the truth that Israel has gone bonkers in the name of security is pretty ignorant.

The only person I care to communicate with is MelissaTorresFan b/c usually I agree with them, so I am curious as to his/her viewpoints. As for the Israelis, no one can understand the situation you live in, so I have some sympathy, but step back and ask yourselves as to who is telling you what (the media, the government) its sad but there is such a blanket of propaganda that covers the entire nation that its future is doomed in bloodshed and war.

JustineTime
Jul 16th, 2006, 02:35 AM
I like the shut up commies comment, I could easily say shut up fascist.

So dumb for uneducated people to use political labels as insults :(

I know this board has a disproportionate amount of right wingers because they are wealthy etc..

Denying the truth that Israel has gone bonkers in the name of security is pretty ignorant.

The only person I care to communicate with is MelissaTorresFan b/c usually I agree with them, so I am curious as to his/her viewpoints. As for the Israelis, no one can understand the situation you live in, so I have some sympathy, but step back and ask yourselves as to who is telling you what (the media, the government) its sad but there is such a blanket of propaganda that covers the entire nation that its future is doomed in bloodshed and war.

/\ :shrug: :lol:

Mightymirza
Jul 16th, 2006, 03:52 AM
:rolleyes:

that is so hypocritical on so many levels
try to be in the common israeli man's shoes for once
having to worry that every time you board a bus, shop in a mall, leave your house your going to get blown up by some crazy terrorist just because your an israeli citizen

though it doesnt make the lebanon innocents killings any better, im just telling you to look at it from both sides
you people act like israel is doing this just because they feel like it :rolleyes:
well i said that!!!!! But lebanon has not much to do with it!! As far as I know :rolleyes: The country doesnt even hav an army for gods sake and talking abt fair lebanese people are always under fear as well just coz they are neighbor of israel..There have been innumerable bomb blasts in lebanon(also inspired by syria!!!!)Atleast Israeli people know theres something to protect them!!!Poor lebanese dont have anything!!They just rebulit the country for gods sake how can people be soo inhuman...I am not saying nything abt israeli public but I just ont see how destroying lebanon like this will help Israel with peace!! This way more and more youth will be under influence of foreign powers and try to join hejabullah likewise!!! Doesnt this make sense to you??Lebanon is now like 20 yrs back in time in just 2 days!!!! Can you believe it?? Tell me how destroying lebanon has helped israel by any means tell me??

John A Roark
Jul 16th, 2006, 04:38 AM
I'm extremely left wing... but I support Israel's decision. This isn't about left-vs-right... this is about protecting the people of Israel. If the people on this board had to live through what the Israelis do every day, I don't think they'd be riding their high horses spouting nonsense about Israeli aggression.
When I say 'left-wing,' I refer of course to the politcal spectrum found in America and how they view Israel's justified fight for their survival. Few on the left in the US can see right and wrong clearly enough to make the hard choices--they just like to make demands as to how others are controlled.

Crazy Canuck
Jul 16th, 2006, 05:22 AM
When I say 'left-wing,' I refer of course to the politcal spectrum found in America and how they view Israel's justified fight for their survival. Few on the left in the US can see right and wrong clearly enough to make the hard choices--they just like to make demands as to how others are controlled.
Not that this necessarily changes anything, but MelissaTorresFan is American. Just FYI. Perhaps you already knew that, but the tone of your post indicates that perhaps you did not.

Nimrodg
Jul 16th, 2006, 07:57 AM
JERUSALEM (CNN) -- A rocket attack by Hezbollah killed at least eight Israelis on Sunday in the northern coastal city of Haifa, according to Israeli ambulance services.

It was the second attack on Haifa since Israel and Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon began trading fire on Wednesday.

Residents of Haifa and other northern Israeli areas were called to take cover in bomb shelters.

In a statement on Al Manar television Sunday, Hezbollah said it fired "tens" of Raad-2 and Raad-3 rockets at Haifa in retaliation for Israel's airstrikes Saturday night on the militant group's stronghold in southern Beirut and on Lebanon's infrastructure.

Hezbollah militants, who the Israeli military says have fired over 450 rockets into northern Israel, denied they were responsible for a rocket attack on Haifa on Thursday.

Israeli military sources said that attack involved longer-range, Iranian-made missiles, and marked the first time rockets have hit so deeply in Israeli territory.

Haifa, which is about 30 miles from the Lebanon border, is Israel's third largest city.

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah Friday declared "an open war" on Israel, and vowed to take the war to Haifa "and beyond."


:sad: :sad: :sad:

ASAP, oren, i hope that you guys are alright :sad:

flyingmachine
Jul 16th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Unfortunately this is a very sad situration. This is a calcurated plan from Hezballah and Isreal should'nt react like that. It seems Isreal is on the hook from hezballah. Mightymirza is quite right at some point (not the anti Isreal bit tho. i do believe most Isrealis do want peace but feels proaiod because they do not trust any of the Arab neighbours but not susprising.) It will take more sense for Isreal to bomb Syria. Who sponser Hezballah so the bombing in Lebanon are not going to hurt Hezballah but to Lebanese. Who most of their are not members of Hezballah. Don't see Isreal will win anything all of this. Is more a loss loss situration for Isreal and a step back to peace in this region. I do feel Olmert did a huge mistake.
Anything, is that just or what somehow this reminds me of the Zidane's head butt inccident.

Talula
Jul 16th, 2006, 11:56 AM
I'm extremely left wing... but I support Israel's decision. This isn't about left-vs-right... this is about protecting the people of Israel. If the people on this board had to live through what the Israelis do every day, I don't think they'd be riding their high horses spouting nonsense about Israeli aggression.

Try living in Palestine - one of the poorest places on earth. And this is hte dilemma, both sides have grievances which look as if they can never be resolved.

If Israel wants to protect itself in the long term, they're going about it the wrong way in my opinion. Arab countries will not forget this. And Iran will speed up its nuclear programme, and use this as an example of having to defend itself.

As someone else said here, 3rd world war. Only with nuclear weapons there would be little recovery.

Anyway, living in London it's so sad that Jews and Muslims and Chrisitans and everyone else can live together in relative harmony, or at least tolerance.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2006, 02:26 PM
The only person I care to communicate with is MelissaTorresFan b/c usually I agree with them, so I am curious as to his/her viewpoints.
Whatever the issue, communicating only with those one already agrees with is a cop out.
:shrug:

Scotso
Jul 16th, 2006, 03:19 PM
Conchi Party doesn't agree with me in this instance. ;)

The person who said Lebanon doesn't have an army is dead wrong. They have a 70,000-member strong one, and the Prime Minister has indicated he may be deploying them to the south to try to wrest control from Hezbollah. So it seems that Israel's efforts are making inroads.

Mightymirza
Jul 16th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Conchi Party doesn't agree with me in this instance. ;)

The person who said Lebanon doesn't have an army is dead wrong. They have a 70,000-member strong one, and the Prime Minister has indicated he may be deploying them to the south to try to wrest control from Hezbollah. So it seems that Israel's efforts are making inroads.
Lebanese PM and govt is a joke!!!!! It makes much more sense to straight out things with syria instead!!!Most of happenings in lebanon are due to syria is a known fact!!! I am not anti israel...i really like the way they have built up their nation!! But with lebanon they r just too much...Compare number of lebanese civilians killed so far in this and it just doesnt make sense!! But wars never make sense...One of my frnds is lebanese and other is israeli...And the israeli frnd is in israel now..And he agrees that the destruction of lebanon is too much as well...Just dont be so extremist!! Think rationally..

PointBlank
Jul 16th, 2006, 04:01 PM
:sad: :sad: :sad:

ASAP, oren, i hope that you guys are alright :sad:

I just thought about that too. :sad:

People in Arad have mixed emmotions about this, but most are definitley pro.

oren987
Jul 16th, 2006, 05:48 PM
:sad: :sad: :sad:

ASAP, oren, i hope that you guys are alright :sad:

Nimrodg :D I'm fine. today was a crazy day. I went to work, and around 9:15
I heard 5 or 6 bumbing realy close to me. the buliding was shacking and I started to see everyone running to find some place to hide.
I had a feeling that something like that was abote to happend today, so I wasn't realy surpriesd.
5 minits later, I want out, and again I heard 5 more bumbing sounds, and this time it was realy close to me. I tryed to call my family but the phone was ded.
after a while, I disseded to go home, and on the way back I heard 2-3 more bumbind sounds.
Once I got home the phone was working, and I called my family and friend to see that everyone is o.k.
What a day.....

tks
Jul 16th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Nimrodg :D I'm fine. today was a crazy day. I went to work, and around 9:15
I heard 5 or 6 bumbing realy close to me. the buliding was shacking and I started to see everyone running to find some place to hide.
I had a feeling that something like that was abote to happend today, so I wasn't realy surpriesd.
5 minits later, I want out, and again I heard 5 more bumbing sounds, and this time it was realy close to me. I tryed to call my family but the phone was ded.
after a while, I disseded to go home, and on the way back I heard 2-3 more bumbind sounds.
Once I got home the phone was working, and I called my family and friend to see that everyone is o.k.
What a day.....
pheww... what a day...
oren and all the others up there in the north we are all with you guys.
be strong!

JustineTime
Jul 16th, 2006, 06:35 PM
Deuteronomy 33:26 There is none like unto the God of Jeshurun, who rideth upon the heaven in thy help, and in his excellency on the sky. 27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them. 28 Israel then shall dwell in safety alone: the fountain of Jacob shall be upon a land of corn and wine; also his heavens shall drop down dew. 29 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places.

Glad to know you folks are safe. :) Sorry you have to go through this. :sad:

Numbers 6:24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: 25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: 26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. 27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel, and I will bless them.

My prayers are with you, as with the innocent bystanders on the other side of the border.

saniafan2005
Jul 16th, 2006, 06:53 PM
Well, i support israel actions in this matter. It doesn't matter if so called innocent people (who harbour terrorist) are killed in this process of elimination of terrorist.
Don't forget , same innocent people elected 25 hijbullah in lebanese parliament. In the same way, I will support india attacking pakistan for killing daud and other terrorist even though some innocent people will be killed in the process.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Deuteronomy 33: (blah blah blah)

Glad to know you folks are safe. :) Sorry you have to go through this. :sad:

Numbers 6: (blah blah blah)

My prayers are with you, as with the innocent bystanders on the other side of the border.
While your own sentiments are I'm sure shared by decent ppl of all faiths, none (and those of us who admit that nobody really knows what in any of them might be true) I ask you this: why does this merciful Lord you love to quote allow disease, terrorism, wars, genocide, etc. etc? In other words, if a soldier returning in one piece from Iraq credits "God" with getting him or her back home safely, why didn't that deity do the same for those in the unit, etc. who were killed by IED's. etc. there?
:confused:

JustineTime
Jul 16th, 2006, 07:26 PM
While your own sentiments are I'm sure shared by decent ppl of all faiths, none (and those of us who admit that nobody really knows what in any of them might be true) I ask you this: why does this merciful Lord you love to quote allow disease, terrorism, wars, genocide, etc. etc? In other words, if a soldier returning in one piece from Iraq credits "God" with getting him or her back home safely, why didn't that deity do the same for those in the unit, etc. who were killed by IED's. etc. there?
:confused:

:topic:

:secret: Roger, your word of the day is...:hehehe:...T-A-C-T. :secret: ;)

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2006, 07:55 PM
:topic:

:secret: Roger, your word of the day is...:hehehe:...T-A-C-T. :secret: ;)
YOU brought (unprovable, of course) theology into this thread, not me! :shrug:

JustineTime
Jul 16th, 2006, 07:59 PM
YOU brought (unprovable, of course) theology into this thread, not me! :shrug:

The reason I posted it should be fairly obvious. :shrug:

HINT: :secret: It had absolutely nothing to do with inciting theological debate, with you or anyone else. :secret: ;) :rolleyes:

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2006, 08:19 PM
The reason I posted it should be fairly obvious. :shrug:

HINT: :secret: It had absolutely nothing to do with inciting theological debate, with you or anyone else. :secret: ;) :rolleyes:
Had you just said something simple like "I pray for your safety", we wouldn't be having this indeed off-topic debate. (And as I said, I share that sentiment, even if I doubt that a deity will intervene). But you have to proselytize every chance you get, don't you? :rolleyes:

Scotso
Jul 16th, 2006, 10:41 PM
Lebanese PM and govt is a joke!!!!! It makes much more sense to straight out things with syria instead!!!Most of happenings in lebanon are due to syria is a known fact!!! I am not anti israel...i really like the way they have built up their nation!! But with lebanon they r just too much...Compare number of lebanese civilians killed so far in this and it just doesnt make sense!! But wars never make sense...One of my frnds is lebanese and other is israeli...And the israeli frnd is in israel now..And he agrees that the destruction of lebanon is too much as well...Just dont be so extremist!! Think rationally..

The Lebanese government is a joke, but at least they're no longer a Syrian puppet.

Scotso
Jul 16th, 2006, 10:43 PM
Nimrodg :D I'm fine. today was a crazy day. I went to work, and around 9:15
I heard 5 or 6 bumbing realy close to me. the buliding was shacking and I started to see everyone running to find some place to hide.
I had a feeling that something like that was abote to happend today, so I wasn't realy surpriesd.
5 minits later, I want out, and again I heard 5 more bumbing sounds, and this time it was realy close to me. I tryed to call my family but the phone was ded.
after a while, I disseded to go home, and on the way back I heard 2-3 more bumbind sounds.
Once I got home the phone was working, and I called my family and friend to see that everyone is o.k.
What a day.....

I'm praying for you and your family.

Scotso
Jul 16th, 2006, 10:46 PM
why does this merciful Lord you love to quote allow disease, terrorism, wars, genocide, etc. etc?

Did you really want an answer to this? I'm not overly religious, but I believe the accepted idea is that God gave people free will, and with that comes poor decisions. God left us free to make our own choices. Without suffering, there would be no growth.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2006, 11:28 PM
Did you really want an answer to this? I'm not overly religious, but I believe the accepted idea is that God gave people free will, and with that comes poor decisions. God left us free to make our own choices. Without suffering, there would be no growth.
JT and I have been going @ eachother for 4 years and 2 boards (GoTennis first) on this. So it was more of a rhetorical thing that he shouldn't have dragged his usual scriptural c/p's into a thread about something "of this world". As you said, (whatever or whoever) may be "out there" left it up to us to do the right thing or not.

As an ethnic Jew whose family experienced deaths in Eastern European pogroms B4 coming to America in the big late 19th/early 20th century migration to America, I find Christians like him (whose primary interest in Israel mostly has to do with the purported 2nd Coming) 2B like opportunists re. us... in normal times.

And when real ppl are dying, IMO they should stick to the kind of thing you said above, not their religion's "Word". BTW, it doesn't change a thing if they stick to the Old Testament @ a time like this. When it comes down to it, their theology is that you accept Jesus as your "personal Lord and Savior" or St. Peter will someday tell you that there's err, "no room @ the inn".

Apoleb
Jul 16th, 2006, 11:59 PM
Pictures of the Hezbollah fighters who have died so far: (sensitive pics)

http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17185
http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17211

:rolleyes: :sad:

crazillo
Jul 17th, 2006, 12:02 AM
I think that it's not worth the risk to make such a big impact on this.

A lot of people from western countries have been kidnapped by some bandites, but diplomatic ways were enough to free them!

I think it's a good way for Israel to demonstrate its strength, but I'm afraid it will make some relationships even more dangerous - espacially with Iran...

spyro
Jul 17th, 2006, 12:58 AM
June: Hamas calls off 16- month military truce after seven members of a Palestinian family are killed on a Gaza beach by Israel shell. Four days later a family of nine die in Israeli missile strike in Gaza.



25 June: Palestinian militants launch raid into Israel, killing two Israeli soldiers and kidnapping Cpl Gilad Shalit.

29 June: Israel troops, having pushed into Gaza, detain Hamas lawmakers and cabinet members. Air strikes.

12 July: Hizbolla captures two Israeli soldiers and kills eight. Israel calls it 'act of war' and widens Gaza offensive, killing 24 civilians. Air strikes destroy 10 bridges in Lebanon, and hit power stations and a water facility.

13 July: Israel bombs Palestinian Foreign Ministry and Bierut airport. Navy blockades Lebanese ports. The US

14 July: Israel bombs Beirut-Damascus road and Shia suburbs of Bierut: 67 Lebanese civilians dead. Hizbollah launches 130 missiles at Israel, killing at least two civilians. Israeli ship is hit by an explosives- filled drone, four dead. 15 July: In the village of Marwaheen - 500 yards from the Israeli border, an air strike kills up to 13.


</FONT>

spyro
Jul 17th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Pictures of the Hezbollah fighters who have died so far: (sensitive pics)

http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17185
http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17211

:rolleyes: :sad:


Israel succeed bring hizbullah fighter to death ... oh wait, is that really a fighter, because it's only a refugee and some kids :sad:

Chris 84
Jul 17th, 2006, 01:12 AM
:sad:

saniafan2005
Jul 17th, 2006, 01:25 AM
Shame to those hizbulah fighters who are hiding behind little kids. They should come forward in open and fight openly with israel....

Apoleb
Jul 17th, 2006, 01:33 AM
Shame to those hizbulah fighters who are hiding behind little kids. They should come forward in open and fight openly with israel....

How do you know Hezbollah fighters were hiding behind the kids? Since you don't, shut the fuck up, please.

These are the pics of 2 families fleeing in a truck after Israel warned them that their village is going to be annihilated in 2 hours. Nearly all roads were bombed prior to that, so they were left with one road, and then were hit. This happened yesterday, and all main news agencies reported it. CNN refused though to show pics because they were "too graphic" while it ran a report about an Israeli grandmother and her son.

FlushingMeadows
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:33 AM
CNN refused though to show pics because they were "too graphic" while it ran a report about an Israeli grandmother and her son.

Jorje:

1) CNN is well known to be pro-Palistinean and anti-Israel. This has been its longstanding angle. I'm not sure what they "refused" to show, or how you would know that, but you can rest assured that they are doing all they can to make Hezbollah appear sympathetic.

2) Hezbollah, along with any number of Palistinean groups, have been known to have headquarters, offices, and factories in civilian areas.

3) I'm not sure that these message boards decide anything but you do have to understand that this confrontation did not start with the kidnapping of two soldiers. Hezbollah has had any number of infiltrations and rocket attacks since Israel departed from Lebanon. This is a fact that is not subject to debate. A nation reaches a point where it simply can not accept any more attacks on its citizens. Here in the US, I would expect my government to respond with all its might if so much as one rocket landed in the direction of my kids' school. I would expect no less from Israel or any other country. Surely you can understand that.

Scotso
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:46 AM
Pictures of the Hezbollah fighters who have died so far: (sensitive pics)

http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17185
http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17211

:rolleyes: :sad:

:yawn: Innocent people have died on both sides. Posting pictures of dead people is not a way to win an argument, it's just an attempt to fire people up... in fact, it's something Hezbollah and their fellow terrorists would do. Maybe next time you should think about that.

Apoleb
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:50 AM
1) CNN is well known to be pro-Palistinean and anti-Israel. This has been its longstanding angle. I'm not sure what they "refused" to show, or how you would know that, but you can rest assured that they are doing all they can to make Hezbollah appear sympathetic.

lol yeah. But that's not surprising coming from an American, and possibly an American on the right. I closely follow CNN, and generally all American media, and they are nothing close to be pro-Palestinian. When the death of a grandmother and her grandson makes the headlines over the massacre of 18 civilians, 10+ of them are kids, you know something is wrong. If that happened in Israel, it would've been in the history books by now.

2) Hezbollah, along with any number of Palistinean groups, have been known to have headquarters, offices, and factories in civilian areas.

Yes, but that incident had nothing to do with those. The big majority of the dead so far have been civilians, and it's not surprising. Hell, more people from the Lebanse army have died than Hezbollah fighters. Air raids are not going to damage Hezbollah that much. They can hide behind a tree for fuck's sake and the planes are not going to detect them. They are hitting key strategic areas and today they started hitting civilians too. They are also hitting stuff like soap factories, cardboard factories, gas stations..etc. What does those have to do with Hezbollah? :confused: Israel thinks it can pressure Hezbollah and turn the Lebanese public to also pressure it to release the soldiers against it by hitting civilians.

3) I'm not sure that these message boards decide anything but you do have to understand that this confrontation did not start with the kidnapping of two soldiers. Hezbollah has had any number of infiltrations and rocket attacks since Israel departed from Lebanon. This is a fact that is not subject to debate. A nation reaches a point where it simply can not accept any more attacks on its citizens. Here in the US, I would expect my government to respond with all its might if so much as one rocket landed in the direction of my kids' school. I would expect no less from Israel or any other country. Surely you can understand that.

I didn't question the legitimacy of a possible Israeli response. However, I'm sure you can also understand that seeing citizens of my country being killed in a cold bloded manner, and then seeing media neglecting most of the stuff and keep talking about "Israeli mistakes" and "Hezbollah hiding" and all that BS, is sickening. Like I said in this thread, it's like an Israel values more than a Lebanese. Oh wait a second. Israel only felt the need to defend itself from the death of civilians after 8 Canadians today died. :shrug:

it's something Hezbollah and their fellow terrorists would do.

Yes. Yawning at dead civilians is something Hezbollah and their fellow terrorists would do.

Scotso
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:51 AM
I suppose anything involving the United States is portrayed fairly in Lebanon. :)

Scotso
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:54 AM
I didn't question the legitimacy of a possible Israeli response. However, I'm sure you can also understand that seeing citizens of my country being killed in a cold bloded manner, and then seeing media neglecting most of the stuff and keep talking about "Israeli mistakes" and "Hezbollah hiding" and all that BS, is sickening. Like I said in this thread, it's like an Israel values more than a Lebanese.

your disdain for Israel is apparent, so don't act like you don't view a Lebanese life are more important than an Israeli one. Israel is trying to destroy the infrastructure that has aided Hezbollah.

Scotso
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:56 AM
Yes. Yawning at dead civilians is something Hezbollah and their fellow terrorists would do.

If you want to argue with a little honor and decency, I will gladly do so, but as long as your argument consists of "they're monsters and we're poor innocents" I really have nothing to say to you. :shrug:

Apoleb
Jul 17th, 2006, 03:01 AM
My argument doesn't consist of "they are monsters and we're poor innocents." But you're not worth a discussion so I don't care. Glad that you have nothing more to say.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 17th, 2006, 04:11 AM
I am so sick of this part of the world getting all the media attention when genocide is happening in Africa.

Call me crazy but I think genocide is a much bigger concern.

Mightymirza
Jul 17th, 2006, 05:02 AM
hejabullahs are crazy..Nothing can support what they r doing to their own nation!!!! Sometimes makes you wonder which interest they r at really..Apparantly the lebanese PM who rebuilt Lebanon tried to disarm Hejabullah but they just didnt!! And rest is known as he was shot ruthlessly or bombed coz of dirty politics!! MAybe all this wudnt hav happened if he was alive now!!

PointBlank
Jul 17th, 2006, 05:03 AM
Nimrodg :D I'm fine. today was a crazy day. I went to work, and around 9:15
I heard 5 or 6 bumbing realy close to me. the buliding was shacking and I started to see everyone running to find some place to hide.
I had a feeling that something like that was abote to happend today, so I wasn't realy surpriesd.
5 minits later, I want out, and again I heard 5 more bumbing sounds, and this time it was realy close to me. I tryed to call my family but the phone was ded.
after a while, I disseded to go home, and on the way back I heard 2-3 more bumbind sounds.
Once I got home the phone was working, and I called my family and friend to see that everyone is o.k.
What a day.....

Im so glad you are well. :kiss:

I hope work goes better today. Its only 8 A.M., but I hope you read this before you go.

Nir
Jul 17th, 2006, 05:09 AM
How do you know Hezbollah fighters were hiding behind the kids? Since you don't, shut the fuck up, please.

These are the pics of 2 families fleeing in a truck after Israel warned them that their village is going to be annihilated in 2 hours. Nearly all roads were bombed prior to that, so they were left with one road, and then were hit. This happened yesterday, and all main news agencies reported it. CNN refused though to show pics because they were "too graphic" while it ran a report about an Israeli grandmother and her son.

Look, this is a war and innocent people are in the fire line especially when Hezbollah people are hiding in places that contains citizens.

Do you want me to show you pictures of innocent israelis people killed by the hands of terrorist? I won't do that because i'm not looking for simpathy and mercy but if you wanted here is a story for you. 8 people sat today in their work place in Haifa and ate breakfest when a racket flew over their heads and killed them, so don't talk to me about innocent poor lebanese getting killed because it's pathetic. Hezbollah should say thanks that we dont push harder on the gas because we havn't shown a bit of what we can really do.

Volcana
Jul 17th, 2006, 06:17 AM
Look, this is a war and innocent people are in the fire line especially when Hezbollah people are hiding in places that contains citizens.That's fine propaganda, but it's still an assumption. Israel is bombing airports, bridges, power stations and government buildings. Those aren't all places where 'Hezbollah people are hiding'. They are your standard targets pre an invasion of ground forces.

And guess what. Hezbollah sleeps too, even as does the IDF. Does that mean anyplace a member of Hezbollah sleeps is automatically a legitemate target? If it does, then anylace a member of the IDF sleeps is a leitemate target also. And doesn't that incluse virtually any Israeli suburb or city?

Israel has a right to defend itself. So does Lebanon. So does any oppressed people. What was your line? 'this is a war and innocent people are in the fire line'. Sounds like you're working for the Hezbollah Ministry of Propaganda. They attacked, and kidnapped soldiers. Israel repsonded in a way GUARANTEED to kill civilians.

Is Israel acting as it deems necessary? Quite possibly. But in this situation, claiming some kind of moral superiority to Hezbollah doesn't cut it. It was Israel, not Hezbollah, that created the first civilian casualties.

spyro
Jul 17th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Talk about kidnapping, What about Israel arrested almost 1/3 palestine important people (bigwig?), 8 ministers, & 34 parliaments people ... ??? Only god knows what they got on the prison :(

furrykitten
Jul 17th, 2006, 09:35 AM
I am so sick of this part of the world getting all the media attention when genocide is happening in Africa.

Call me crazy but I think genocide is a much bigger concern.

Yep its a big concern but America and most Top World Powers are more concerned in the Oil in the Middle East I'm afraid, they don't care about the people of Africa, Middle East or anywhere else for that matter :(

Scotso
Jul 17th, 2006, 11:35 AM
It was Israel, not Hezbollah, that created the first civilian casualties.

I think you need to reexamine that statement.

Scotso
Jul 17th, 2006, 11:36 AM
I just don't get it. I don't get how people can be sympathetic to Hezbollah. They're terrorists. You know, like the people that flew planes into the World Trade Center.

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 17th, 2006, 12:22 PM
I just don't get it. I don't get how people can be sympathetic to Hezbollah. They're terrorists. You know, like the people that flew planes into the World Trade Center.

you do know the meaning of the word terrorist, dont you :rolleyes:
they are armed MILITIA

if you say Iran/Syria armed them
who they hell armed Israel :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Also Israel created both Hamas and Hezbollah

and if you think bombing the crap out of Lebanon the people are gonna be happy, WRONG
thousands upon thousands more are gonna join Hezbollah and new groups will be formed.

Nir
Jul 17th, 2006, 12:36 PM
That's fine propaganda, but it's still an assumption. Israel is bombing airports, bridges, power stations and government buildings. Those aren't all places where 'Hezbollah people are hiding'. They are your standard targets pre an invasion of ground forces.

And guess what. Hezbollah sleeps too, even as does the IDF. Does that mean anyplace a member of Hezbollah sleeps is automatically a legitemate target? If it does, then anylace a member of the IDF sleeps is a leitemate target also. And doesn't that incluse virtually any Israeli suburb or city?

Israel has a right to defend itself. So does Lebanon. So does any oppressed people. What was your line? 'this is a war and innocent people are in the fire line'. Sounds like you're working for the Hezbollah Ministry of Propaganda. They attacked, and kidnapped soldiers. Israel repsonded in a way GUARANTEED to kill civilians.

Is Israel acting as it deems necessary? Quite possibly. But in this situation, claiming some kind of moral superiority to Hezbollah doesn't cut it. It was Israel, not Hezbollah, that created the first civilian casualties.

The only reason we attacked bridges and airports is to wipe off the escape roads to prevent Hezbollah from taking our soldiers that they kidnapped to Iran. this is a military action.

At the second that Hezbollah allowed themselves to kill 8 soldiers and kidnapp 2 without any provokation by our side they are all moving targets, they got ahead of themselves and now they are going to pay the price and it will be a very costly price, trust me.

Saying that Israel started this is such an ignorant saying that I cant even respond to :rolleyes:

Nir
Jul 17th, 2006, 12:42 PM
you do know the meaning of the word terrorist, dont you :rolleyes:
they are armed MILITIA

if you say Iran/Syria armed them
who they hell armed Israel :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Also Israel created both Hamas and Hezbollah

and if you think bombing the crap out of Lebanon the people are gonna be happy, WRONG
thousands upon thousands more are gonna join Hezbollah and new groups will be formed.

Do you know any arabs?, have you ever lived near arabs? if you did you would have known that they only understand the language of power. if you show them no mercy they will stay quiet but if you just give them a finger they will bite your hand off. when we left gaza a year ago they took advantage of it and blew the south of Israel with kassams rackets. when we left Lebanon Hezbollah took advantage of it and shot Katiusha rackets to the north of Israel. when we reach our hand to peace they sended terrorist to bomb citizens inside of mallls and busses in the center of Israel so we need to destroy them for them to be afraid and stay quiet.

And hey, it's not our fault that we are stronger then any arab nation including Iran, so if they want to fight with us they will get it.

JustineTime
Jul 17th, 2006, 12:43 PM
That's fine propaganda, but it's still an assumption. Israel is bombing airports, bridges, power stations and government buildings. Those aren't all places where 'Hezbollah people are hiding'. They are your standard targets pre an invasion of ground forces.

And guess what. Hezbollah sleeps too, even as does the IDF. Does that mean anyplace a member of Hezbollah sleeps is automatically a legitemate target? If it does, then anylace a member of the IDF sleeps is a leitemate target also. And doesn't that incluse virtually any Israeli suburb or city?

Israel has a right to defend itself. So does Lebanon. So does any oppressed people. What was your line? 'this is a war and innocent people are in the fire line'. Sounds like you're working for the Hezbollah Ministry of Propaganda. They attacked, and kidnapped soldiers. Israel repsonded in a way GUARANTEED to kill civilians.

Is Israel acting as it deems necessary? Quite possibly. But in this situation, claiming some kind of moral superiority to Hezbollah doesn't cut it. It was Israel, not Hezbollah, that created the first civilian casualties.



Monday, July 17, 2006
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/section.BTL.gif http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/jf_photo.68x68.gif
Israel – out of control?

Posted: July 17, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern






By Joseph Farah
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com


If you rely on the Washington Post, the New York Times and the Associated Press for your news, it would be easy to get the impression that Israel is out of control – wantonly killing Lebanese and Palestinian civilians and provoking a larger conflict in the Middle East.

The lead headline in the Post yesterday, for instance, read: ''Israel intensifies assault on Beirut.''

Of course, if striking directly at the terrorists who launched hundreds of rockets at Israeli civilians in the previous three days and who struck inside Israel's border, kidnapping two soldiers, means assaulting Beirut, I guess that would be accurate.

But Israel is hardly targeting Beirut. It is targeting Hezbollah, a terrorist organization in league with al-Qaida and sponsored by Syria and Iran – a terrorist group that is killing and maiming Israeli citizens by the score.



Here's the way the third paragraph of the Post story reads: ''In a war that has witnessed an escalation each day, the asymmetrical nature of the conflict was laid bare Saturday: For each attack by Hezbollah since it captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid, Israel has inflicted a far greater price. It has systematically dismantled the country's infrastructure, displaced thousands of residents and instilled a new sense of foreboding and fear in the now-deserted streets of this brash, confident city still shadowed by the legacy of Lebanon's 15-year civil war.''

What message is any thinking person supposed to take away from such an account? Israel is out of control.

But a few points need to be made about such commentary disguised as news reporting:


Hezbollah has been operating freely in Lebanon as a de facto government for years – even after Syria withdrew from the country. The government of Lebanon has done little or nothing to take control of entire regions of the country, including its international airport, in which Hezbollah has set up a military infrastructure with one goal in mind – attacking Israel. How is Israel supposed to respond to attacks directed from those regions?

Israel has the military might to destroy Lebanon in a day – an hour, 30 minutes. Has it occurred to anyone that the Jewish state is demonstrating incredible restraint in focusing its wrath on only Hezbollah targets?

Stories are quick to emphasize the death and injury toll of Lebanese and Palestinians, but you have to scour the reports to learn that hundreds of Israeli civilians have been hurt and killed in rocket attacks targeted at towns and cities in the Jewish state.

How should a civilized nation respond to terrorist attacks within its borders? How did the U.S. respond after Sept. 11, 2001? Should civilized nations respond with force only equal to that which was used by its enemies? Or is it legitimate and proper for civilized countries to respond with overwhelming force – to discourage future attacks, wipe out those responsible and deter future attacks?


Again, it is as if my colleagues – as well as the United Nations, the European leadership and much of the rest of the world – believe Israel is the real problem in the Middle East.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Blaming Israel for the current violence in the region is the equivalent of blaming the U.S. for the terrorist attacks of September 11 and its response to them.

Let's review the key developments in this war:

On July 12, Hezbollah launched Katyusha rockets and mortar fire at the Israeli town of Shlomi. The same day, the terrorist group boasted of seizing two Israeli soldiers in the Israeli town of Shtula – killing eight other soldiers.

Then, and only then, did Israel strike back by bombing roads, bridges, power stations and other Hezbollah strongholds in southern Lebanon.

Hezbollah then began a much wider rocket assault on Israeli towns, including the port city of Haifa, some 20 miles south of the Lebanese border. It was in this series of attacks that wounded more than 300 Israel civilians, while killing at least a dozen.

I suppose there are those who think Israel should only respond with like force. Israel, a tiny nation with 1 percent of the population of its enemies in the Mideast, cannot afford to trade corpses. And, even if it could, it would not be good national security policy.

Israel's enemies should be grateful this American of Lebanese and Syrian heritage is not calling the shots in Jerusalem. Israel finds itself in this crisis because it listened too closely to the voices of appeasement from around the world – including from my colleagues in the international establishment media. Evacuating from southern Lebanon and Gaza and other territories Israel conquered in hard-fought combat with no concessions from its enemies was bad policy. Israel encouraged the attacks it is now enduring. It's long past time for Israel to draw a hard line in the sand and punish severely those who cross it.



You lefties are :cuckoo:. Someone squawked ITT about the genocide in Africa. If these TERRORIST monkeys have their way, they will drive every single Jew on earth into the sea. Israel is surrounded by enemies who would slaughter them to the last man, woman and child if given the opportunity, and you have the nerve to call them a "terrorist state", etc. :rolleyes:

Israel has shown TREMENDOUS restraint in this conflict, and if you can't see THAT, you're as blind as you are crazy. :help:

Sam L
Jul 17th, 2006, 12:48 PM
Israel is not a terrorist state. I support their actions all the way.

Lord Nelson
Jul 17th, 2006, 01:33 PM
you do know the meaning of the word terrorist, dont you :rolleyes:
they are armed MILITIA

if you say Iran/Syria armed them
who they hell armed Israel :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Also Israel created both Hamas and Hezbollah

and if you think bombing the crap out of Lebanon the people are gonna be happy, WRONG
thousands upon thousands more are gonna join Hezbollah and new groups will be formed.
only shiites can join Hezbollah and violence can make things better. Just look at when Isarel got rid of Sheik Yassin, its spiritual leader. Has there been as many suicide bombings then before he was killed? The answer is no.
Terrorists are armed milita so Hezbollah is terrorist just like your Basayev was a terrorist. Israel is a state and so is Iran so neither of them are terrorists. So what if U.S. arms Israel, it only gives arms to Egypt and Jordan. Who does Russia give arms to? Iran and Syria. Israel did not create Hamas and Hezbollah. Hezbollah has its success from Iran and shiites are the most numerous group in Lebanon. Hamas gets it aid from various arab groups. Did Russia create Basayev's terrorist group? I would love to hear you opinion on the subject.

FlushingMeadows
Jul 17th, 2006, 01:48 PM
you do know the meaning of the word terrorist, dont you :rolleyes:
they are armed MILITIA

if you say Iran/Syria armed them
who they hell armed Israel :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Also Israel created both Hamas and Hezbollah

and if you think bombing the crap out of Lebanon the people are gonna be happy, WRONG
thousands upon thousands more are gonna join Hezbollah and new groups will be formed.

TBE:

Of all the posts I have read on this issue, yours is the most disappointing to me - only because I have read and admired your authoritative tennis posts for some time. On this issue, however, you seem to be misinformed:

1) The US and many other nations define Hezbollah as a terrorist group so any poster who calls them that is on firm ground. Long before the current conflict, they have deliberately murdered scores of innocent people - and not just Israelis either. If this is not a terrorist group, I do not know what is.

2) It is too easy to blame Israel for the creation of Hezbollah and Hamas. It is far more complicated. I could spend hours discussing the historical inaccuracy of your assertion but I will focus on a simple historical fact - there was much terrorism against Israel even BEFORE it "occupied" the West Bank and Gaza and set foot into Lebanon. Similarly, even after Israel departed from Lebanon and Gaza, the attacks have continued. You can't just call these attacks "resistance to occupation" when they happen regularly even when there is no "occupation." Rather, they are far more - a demand that Israel cease to exist. Knowing that, what is Israel to do?

3) Do you think Israel really wants to bomb innocent civilians? They have tried to avoid it and, as a democracy, when civilians die unnecessarily, there are investigations. Soldiers who have acted unjustly face disciplinary charges. This stands in contrast to Hezbollah and Palistinean groups who deliberately fire at civilians, often children. Then they celebrate when they are successful. Indeed, they celebrate if anybody murders Israelis, Americans or Jews [have you seen the footage of Palistineans dancing in the streets after 911?]

sapir1434
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:06 PM
Whoever calls Israel a terrorist state definitely doesn't understand their reasons, their essence, their life. Try to live as they live.

Mightymirza
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:08 PM
Do you know any arabs?, have you ever lived near arabs? if you did you would have known that they only understand the language of power. if you show them no mercy they will stay quiet but if you just give them a finger they will bite your hand off. when we left gaza a year ago they took advantage of it and blew the south of Israel with kassams rackets. when we left Lebanon Hezbollah took advantage of it and shot Katiusha rackets to the north of Israel. when we reach our hand to peace they sended terrorist to bomb citizens inside of mallls and busses in the center of Israel so we need to destroy them for them to be afraid and stay quiet.

And hey, it's not our fault that we are stronger then any arab nation including Iran, so if they want to fight with us they will get it.
My frnd is from lebanon and shes a sunni and sunnis are generally peace loving in Lebanon..They dont like hezbullah or israel..And really wanna leave in peace!

Mightymirza
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:11 PM
Okay one more cruel thing israel did!! This time they threw leaflets in south lebanon saying we r gonna attck you!! And everyone read it and got ready to flee and in a second they bombed the town and the roads!! Killing a lots of cilvilians!! Now does it really make sense?? I mean a lott of them dies because they were on road trying to flee!! And they bombed the same road after distributing the pamplets.This is from the people whos lived this thing!! Now what does this cruel act say??Do they really care abt civilians or not hurting them??I dont think so..Its just inhuman!!!

marmotte
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Do you know any arabs?, have you ever lived near arabs? if you did you would have known that they only understand the language of power. if you show them no mercy they will stay quiet but if you just give them a finger they will bite your hand off.
that's one of the most racist comment i've read in a long time :o
how do you want other people to look at you when you say some BS like that ? :tape:

Mightymirza
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:18 PM
that's one of the most racist comment i've read in a long time :o
how do you want other people to look at you when you say some BS like that ? :tape:
true!!! Plus :help: @ israel has shown immense restraint!! I mean they destroyed whole infrastructure of this lil country who was just rebuilt! Destryoyed all major bridges..Destroyed their airport(bombed it 5 times!!! and i still dont know the reason!!)Bombed beirut relentlessly..Killed civilians..took charge of south lebanon!! Wow thats an immense restraint they r showing :rolleyes: bravo!!!

DuLeafs
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:22 PM
true!!! Plus :help: @ israel has shown immense restraint!! I mean they destroyed whole infrastructure of this lil country who was just rebuilt! Destryoyed all major bridges..Destroyed their airport(bombed it 5 times!!! and i still dont know the reason!!)Bombed beirut relentlessly..Killed civilians..took charge of south lebanon!! Wow thats an immense restraint they r showing :rolleyes: bravo!!!

I don't understand it either... All them innocent people in Beirut are afraid and cannot even leave :(

Now i dont want any replies that the Israelian people in Jerusalem are afraid of attacks as well. But the more reason I don't understand why Israel want to bring over this feeling to someone else as well..

Nimrodg
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:40 PM
C'mon, get real. Israel bombed bridges and bombed the airports to assure that the Hezbollah's leaders won't escape and not sure about the airports, but maybe they did it to prevent planes attack or something like that from Lebanon.

Israel has no interest to hurt Lebanon as a country, or to destroy it infrastructure. Israel's only goal is to destroy the Hezbollah.

I wish we had not hurt civilians, but this terrible things happens in war, it's not like someone meant to kill civilians.

If someone would've fire rocket to France or Italy, i mean to major cities like Paris or Rome, the reaction was worse! IDF doing his best to act to pointed targets only. If the country leaders would've want, the IDF attacks were much more harsh to destroy the Hezbollah. But they aren't, because they want to prevent from killing innocent people.
It might sounds weird but i heard about many cases, and in most of them THE IDF IS THE MOST ETHICAL ARMY IN THE WORLD.

Nir
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:42 PM
that's one of the most racist comment i've read in a long time :o
how do you want other people to look at you when you say some BS like that ? :tape:

That's just the thing, i'm not trying to make things look preety or get an approval from the world.

We are doing what we needed to do along time ago, and trust me that I know the way that they live. This is the only way to stop them, we have tried everything and they just keep on going so we need to teach them a lesson that they will never forget.

Oh and for me saying that Israel is a terrorist country like alot of people said it's racism. so enough with the preety words, we are in a middle of a war and i'm not seeing you sitting in shelters and being attacked with rockets, so don't talk to me like you know it all. it's very easy to say that we are the bad guys from the outside but we have shown to much mercy for those terrorists and it's time to show them who is in charge here.

Sam L
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:47 PM
Innocent people must die in any war. What about in Hiroshima? Are we going to still blame the US for all the innocent little boys and girls that got nuked?

golo
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:53 PM
love

Halardfan
Jul 17th, 2006, 02:56 PM
We are doing what we needed to do along time ago, and trust me that I know the way that they live. This is the only way to stop them, we have tried everything and they just keep on going so we need to teach them a lesson that they will never forget.


But such comments could easily have been made by anti-Semite, anti-Isreali too, indeed I hear stupid anti-Jewish people say almost identical things...I realsie that Jews have faced hateful predudice throuhgout their history, but don't return it with prejudice of your own. Becuase they you have really lost.

When you see the 'enemy' as less than human, is when so many of the horrors of history get perpetrated...be it the British in India, the Japanese in China or the Nazi upon the Russians or Jews themselves...its about people seeing the enemy as sub-human beneath them, and therefore the horrors put upon them don't count.

Israel musn't fall into that awful trap.

sapir1434
Jul 17th, 2006, 03:03 PM
The difference in this war is that the Hezballah want to kill civilians, this is their goal.

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 17th, 2006, 03:09 PM
The difference in this war is that the Hezballah want to kill civilians, this is their goal.

I'm sure if they had precision rockets, that wouldnt be their aim then would it.

those rockets never malfunction, its just that the aim deliberately goes wrong and fires into convoys trying to escape :rolleyes:


Then again their aim could also go wrong .......right :devil:

Nimrodg
Jul 17th, 2006, 03:10 PM
israel is part of the axis of evil

Ditto. How can a country defend herself from rockets and Missiles?

We should be a shamed

(Sarcasm)

Nimrodg
Jul 17th, 2006, 03:12 PM
I'm sure if they had precision rockets, that wouldnt be their aim then would it.

those rockets never malfunction, its just that the aim deliberately goes wrong and fires into convoys trying to escape :rolleyes:


Then again their aim could also go wrong .......right :devil:

Are you sure? The Hezbollah managed to send some suicide bombers to Israel that killed civilians and innocent people.

sapir1434
Jul 17th, 2006, 03:16 PM
I'm sure if they had precision rockets, that wouldnt be their aim then would it.

those rockets never malfunction, its just that the aim deliberately goes wrong and fires into convoys trying to escape :rolleyes:


Then again their aim could also go wrong .......right :devil:
You are wrong... They definitely have precision.

golo
Jul 17th, 2006, 03:19 PM
Ditto. How can a country defend herself from rockets and Missiles?

We should be a shamed

(Sarcasm)the hezbollah rockets were retaliation from israel bombing civilian structures. guerilla warfare is a hard thing to deal with but you dont bomb ports, airport, gas stations, and other similar infrastructure. israel has no strategy other than crippling the everyday life of law going lebanese citizens

Halardfan
Jul 17th, 2006, 03:20 PM
The difference in this war is that the Hezballah want to kill civilians, this is their goal.

Yes, but despite this, the Israeli's have managed to kill many more innocent people with their supposedly targeted attacks...what that tells you I don't know...

They tell people to leave an area prior to bombing, then bomb the exit roads and conveys of cars trying to leave.