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tennisIlove09
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:00 PM
Updated: June 24, 2006, 12:58 PM ET
Has success on clay cost Belgian at Wimbledon?


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By Pam Shriver
Special to ESPN.com
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I was pretty hard on Justine Henin-Hardenne after she retired in the second set of the Australian Open final against Amelie Mauresmo. The French Open once again showed she is the toughest competitor in women's tennis right now and made me rethink what happened at the Australian. Given her history of fight and determination on the court, she must have really had a major stomach problem that was too painful to continue, even though it looked to most of us like she could have and should have finished the match.

http://espn-att.starwave.com/photo/2006/0610/ten_a_hardenne2_275.jpg
AP Photo/Michel Spingler
All five of Justine Henin-Hardenne's Grand Slam titles have come since 2003.






That said, Henin-Hardenne now has a chance to complete the career Grand Slam, something only nine women have done before. Wimbledon is the missing link, and ironically it was the first Grand Slam final she reached back in 2001.



And this year the Belgian is doing something different -- playing at Eastbourne, England (the Hastings Direct International Championships). Last year, after she won the French Open, Henin-Hardenne rested because she was still somewhat nervous about the virus she contracted in 2004 that took a long time for her to get over. She went into Wimbledon having not played since the French Open and lost in the first round to Eleni Daniilidou. The fact that she's playing this week in Eastbourne shows that she is taking a different approach and knows that playing grass-court tennis before Wimbledon is important.



When you think about the rarified air of the all-time greats, they win somewhere between 15-20 majors: Steffi Graf (22 titles), Martina Navratilova (18) and Chris Evert (18). I even put Monica Seles (nine) in that company because she was robbed by the stabbing attack that derailed her career. Women Who Have Won
The Career Grand SlamPlayerGrand Slams wonMargaret Court Smith 24 Steffi Graf 22 Chris Evert 18 Martina Navratilova 18 Billie Jean King 12 Maureen Connolly 9 Serena Williams 7 Doris Hart 6 Shirley Fry 4



Henin-Hardenne has five career Grand Slams, so I wouldn't put her up there, but she's also only halfway through her career (she turned 24 on June 1). When you think about what she has done in the last three years, if she can do that in the next three years, you can start talking about her as one of the greats. But the great ones win majors over a 10- to 12-year span.



If she does win Wimbledon, it would be her sixth career Grand Slam; that's pretty special but still a notch below the all-time greats. In women's tennis, you need to reach double digits in majors won to be considered among the greatest.



One reason Wimbledon has eluded to Henin-Hardenne to this point is the proximity of the tournament to the French Open. She's done so well at Roland Garros (winning it three of the last four years), and playing on clay takes its toll. Henin-Hardenne has had amazing clay-court records and expends a ton of energy on clay. It's just not easy to snap your fingers and be ready to go on grass.



Another reason she hasn't won at Wimbledon is because of the Williams sisters. Henin-Hardenne first played at Wimbledon in 2000; since then Venus and Serena have combined to win five of the six titles, in part because grass is a surface that is perfect for their games.



I'd be more surprised if Henin-Hardenne never wins a Wimbledon title than if Roger Federer never wins the French Open.

ESPN tennis analyst Pam Shriver won 21 singles and 112 doubles crowns, including 22 Grand Slam titles, and was inducted into the International Tennis Hall of Fame in 2002.

Brooks.
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:04 PM
I love how everyone is kissing her ass again just because she won the French Open...at least have the freaking balls to stand by what you say :rolleyes:

auntie janie
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:11 PM
I love how everyone is kissing her ass again just because she won the French Open...at least have the freaking balls to stand by what you say :rolleyes:

or the courage to admit you were wrong. ;)

IceHock
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:13 PM
Updated: June 24, 2006, 12:58 PM ET
Has success on clay cost Belgian at Wimbledon?


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By Pam Shriver
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I was pretty hard on Justine Henin-Hardenne after she retired in the second set of the Australian Open final against Amelie Mauresmo. The French Open once again showed she is the toughest competitor in women's tennis right now and made me rethink what happened at the Australian. Given her history of fight and determination on the court, she must have really had a major stomach problem that was too painful to continue, even though it looked to most of us like she could have and should have finished the match.

http://espn-att.starwave.com/photo/2006/0610/ten_a_hardenne2_275.jpg
AP Photo/Michel Spingler
All five of Justine Henin-Hardenne's Grand Slam titles have come since 2003.






That said, Henin-Hardenne now has a chance to complete the career Grand Slam, something only nine women have done before. Wimbledon is the missing link, and ironically it was the first Grand Slam final she reached back in 2001.



And this year the Belgian is doing something different -- playing at Eastbourne, England (the Hastings Direct International Championships). Last year, after she won the French Open, Henin-Hardenne rested because she was still somewhat nervous about the virus she contracted in 2004 that took a long time for her to get over. She went into Wimbledon having not played since the French Open and lost in the first round to Eleni Daniilidou. The fact that she's playing this week in Eastbourne shows that she is taking a different approach and knows that playing grass-court tennis before Wimbledon is important.



When you think about the rarified air of the all-time greats, they win somewhere between 15-20 majors: Steffi Graf (22 titles), Martina Navratilova (18) and Chris Evert (18). I even put Monica Seles (nine) in that company because she was robbed by the stabbing attack that derailed her career. Women Who Have Won
The Career Grand SlamPlayerGrand Slams wonMargaret Court Smith 24 Steffi Graf 22 Chris Evert 18 Martina Navratilova 18 Billie Jean King 12 Maureen Connolly 9 Serena Williams 7 Doris Hart 6 Shirley Fry 4



Henin-Hardenne has five career Grand Slams, so I wouldn't put her up there, but she's also only halfway through her career (she turned 24 on June 1). When you think about what she has done in the last three years, if she can do that in the next three years, you can start talking about her as one of the greats. But the great ones win majors over a 10- to 12-year span.



If she does win Wimbledon, it would be her sixth career Grand Slam; that's pretty special but still a notch below the all-time greats. In women's tennis, you need to reach double digits in majors won to be considered among the greatest.



One reason Wimbledon has eluded to Henin-Hardenne to this point is the proximity of the tournament to the French Open. She's done so well at Roland Garros (winning it three of the last four years), and playing on clay takes its toll. Henin-Hardenne has had amazing clay-court records and expends a ton of energy on clay. It's just not easy to snap your fingers and be ready to go on grass.



Another reason she hasn't won at Wimbledon is because of the Williams sisters. Henin-Hardenne first played at Wimbledon in 2000; since then Venus and Serena have combined to win five of the six titles, in part because grass is a surface that is perfect for their games.



I'd be more surprised if Henin-Hardenne never wins a Wimbledon title than if Roger Federer never wins the French Open.

ESPN tennis analyst Pam Shriver won 21 singles and 112 doubles crowns, including 22 Grand Slam titles, and was inducted into the International Tennis Hall of Fame in 2002.



you've gotta be joking me ,apparently she hasn't seen fed play that much.

hingis-seles
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:17 PM
When you think about the rarified air of the all-time greats, they win somewhere between 15-20 majors: Steffi Graf (22 titles), Martina Navratilova (18) and Chris Evert (18). I even put Monica Seles (nine) in that company because she was robbed by the stabbing attack that derailed her career.

Monica :worship:

I'd be more surprised if Henin-Hardenne never wins a Wimbledon title than if Roger Federer never wins the French Open.

I'd be more surprised if Roger never won RG rather than Justine never winning Wimbledon.

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:23 PM
I don't particularly think winning Roland Garros is hurting Justine at Wimbledon. If she wants to win Wimbledon though then she has to be more aggressive throughout the year. You can't just play aggressive tennis one month out of the year and expect a championship at Wimbledon to come. Lendl tried it every year and failed.
Venus plays aggressive tennis on all surfaces and that's why her game works so well for Wimbledon. When she plays defense though she has the best chance to change her defense into offense.
Justine is use to getting two or three shots to do that and you just don't get that on grass.
I wish she would look at how Federer plays on all surfaces it would really make her game even more dimensional.
Justine has a very good slice that stays low but she doesn't get enough out of it. She doesn't chip and charge. She doesn't use any slices that basically make her opponents come to net which is odd considering she has some of the best passes on tour.
For Justine to win Wimbledon she will have to use more court than she would at RG and doing it offensively. I don't know if this is the year she's going to do it.

Lady
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:30 PM
Justine has a very good slice that stays low but she doesn't get enough out of it. She doesn't chip and charge. She doesn't use any slices that basically make her opponents come to net which is odd considering she has some of the best passes on tour.
For Justine to win Wimbledon she will have to use more court than she would at RG and doing it offensively. I don't know if this is the year she's going to do it.

Thanks again for proving once again how you haven't actually seen Justine play for a while. :)


And on topic, it's not like if Justine didn't perform well at RG, Wimbledon title would be hers. And wow at Pam changing her mind, I wonder for how long! :eek:

tennisIlove09
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:31 PM
I think after Venus, Justine is the best player at the net. And I give Venus the edge because of the reach.

IceHock
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:33 PM
i'm gunna find it hard for her to keep up the agrression on grass becuase she's so used to defending on clay courts,i know she won eastbourne but can she hold up all tournament long??for me she has to finish at the net and use her slice.those are the 2 keys for her success at wimbledon,if she just sits back and rallies with maria or venus,she's screwed.

vejh
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:33 PM
Thank you Janie.

It has taken Pam, and some others quite a while to understand that JHH is a tough cookie and has withstood some tough times with her body to compete. She's never shied away from a loss, and certainly a set and a break down to Amelie at AO, she wouldn't stop if she didn't have to. It took Pam a while to get it (or to admit she was wrong), but no harm no foul.

Paris may have cost JHH Wimby?lol Like Lady said, it's not as if JHH was guaranteed Wimby had she lost in Paris.lol

Lady
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:44 PM
I think after Venus, Justine is the best player at the net. And I give Venus the edge because of the reach.

Have you seen the today's match? Justine's volleys were phenomenal! :hearts: And she came to the net around 30-40 times. ;)

tennisIlove09
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:47 PM
Have you seen the today's match? Justine's volleys were phenomenal! :hearts: And she came to the net around 30-40 times. ;)

No :sad: I didnt get TV coverage here in Canada. I only get coverage of the Slams - Indian Wells - Miami - Canadian Open

Lady
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:50 PM
No :sad: I didnt get TV coverage here in Canada. I only get coverage of the Slams - Indian Wells - Miami - Canadian Open

And no possibily to download via BitTorrent? :sad: rottweily put the link in her thread. :)

TomTennis
Jun 24th, 2006, 10:57 PM
I'd be more surprised if Roger never won RG rather than Justine never winning Wimbledon.

Im the same! :wavey:

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 24th, 2006, 11:09 PM
Thanks again for proving once again how you haven't actually seen Justine play for a while. :)


And on topic, it's not like if Justine didn't perform well at RG, Wimbledon title would be hers. And wow at Pam changing her mind, I wonder for how long! :eek:
So Justine chipped and charged today? Did she lure Myskina into net with a short crosscourt slice?
She came in fourty times against Myskina. And??? When has Myskina been known for her passes?

SAEKeithSerena
Jun 24th, 2006, 11:33 PM
I love how everyone is kissing her ass again just because she won the French Open...at least have the freaking balls to stand by what you say :rolleyes:


no shit. the bitch will never win Wimbledon.

thrust
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:10 AM
Interestingly, Borg played a totally different game at Wimbledon than he did in all other tournaments. In those he was strictly a baseliner, as I recall. I do agree though that Justine should play the net, on all surfaces, more than she does as she is a good vollyer. The more she plays the net, the more confident she would be there. I think her success would be even greater if she were more confident at the net.

Justeenium
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:19 AM
Maybe Pam finally realized that her nasty comments and laughable predictions only make her popular on WTAWorld, they don't help ESPN's ratings.

faste5683
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:34 AM
no shit. the bitch will never win Wimbledon.

:haha: Sweet.

SAEKeithSerna (6-22-06):

there's no doubt in my mind, kim will win this tournament, great win kim!

Of course,

Justine beats Kim the following day.

:tape:

:wavey:

Apoleb
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:39 AM
:haha:

It's sad that it took Justine winning RG for her to recognize that what she said in the first place is dumb and doesn't make sense.

Apoleb
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:42 AM
She's never shied away from a loss, and certainly a set and a break down to Amelie at AO, she wouldn't stop if she didn't have to.

Thank you. All people claiming otherwise are retarded in my opinion. She was only down a break in the second set, and it was very much the start of it, so she could've easily turned it around. And it's not like Amelie was blowing her off the court.

Greenout
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:43 AM
Let's back track. I thought losing the Australian Open was suppose to cost Justine her career? Wasn't she not suppose to win another title ever?

Then months later it was Indian Wells against Elena D. Wasn't that lost suppose to have cost her? What about Miami?

No, clay court WTA titles, end of a winning streak. Wasn't that suppose to cost her any chance of ever winning RG again?

I'm surprise she's still on tour because everything is suppose to not be right for Justine. Damn... being Justine is already too much of a bleeding cost?


Pam should just be honest, and say it. I dislike Justine, and nothing would make me happier than to see her draw fodder for the rest of her career.


;)

cellophane
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:45 AM
No, Paris Hilton cost Serena Wimbledon. ;)

Greenout
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:47 AM
No, Paris Hilton cost Serena Wimbledon. ;)


At least you're honest. You dislike Justine - period.


This lame ass passive aggressive Pam article is stupid.

cellophane
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:56 AM
At least you're honest. You dislike Justine - period.

Why period? :p I used to like Justine a long time ago. ;)

Sam L
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:58 AM
I love how everyone is kissing her ass again just because she won the French Open...at least have the freaking balls to stand by what you say :rolleyes:
No. Everyone's now realising that Justine was injured in AO and that if she weren't she would've won.

faste5683
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:15 AM
No. Everyone's now realising that Justine was injured in AO and that if she weren't she would've won.

:lol:

No way, your logic is too simple. Occam's razor, anyone?;)


"one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything"

raquel
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:23 AM
I was pretty hard on Justine Henin-Hardenne after she retired in the second set of the Australian Open final against Amelie Mauresmo. The French Open once again showed she is the toughest competitor in women's tennis right now and made me rethink what happened at the Australian. Given her history of fight and determination on the court, she must have really had a major stomach problem that was too painful to continue, even though it looked to most of us like she could have and should have finished the match. We all knew Justine was the toughest competitor, (perhaps along with Serena), long before RG 2006, so why Pam is changing her mind after RG 2006, I am not sure. There was nothing majorly tough for Justine in RG 2006 in the same way the US Open win over Capriati or the Olympics win over Myskina were, so Justine was the same competitor before RG 2006 as she is after it. Pam even said it - her history of fight. It's a pretty weak backtrack.

But the great ones win majors over a 10- to 12-year span.
That's quite a random remark to pluck out of nowhere and pass off as fact.. Players like McEnroe and Borg are greats but they won over 6/7 year spans. Does that mean they don't qualify as greats? No. The 5 Slams Hingis won (so far) were all within 2 years (Australia 1997-Australia 1999) but I don't think that should be held against her and mean she's not a great of the game.

Brooks.
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:27 AM
No. Everyone's now realising that Justine was injured in AO and that if she weren't she would've won.

that's nice...give Momo no credit...you're right ...she had no chance in hell to beat Henin... :rolleyes:

vejh
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:42 AM
You know, some of you fans may not like JHH but can you refrain from calling her names? Just a general level of respect, surely we can be civil, right?

Stamp Paid
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:45 AM
that's nice...give Momo no credit...you're right ...she had no chance in hell to beat Henin... :rolleyes:

and Serena's out of shape because she wants bigger jugs, too.

Sam :hug:

Joana
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:51 AM
and Serena's out of shape because she wants bigger jugs, too.


WTF? :confused:

Justine Fan
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:54 AM
:haha: Sweet.

SAEKeithSerna (6-22-06):



Of course,

Justine beats Kim the following day.

:tape:

:wavey:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

As ever SAEKeithSerna shows himself up and makes a complete pratt of himself for the millionth time :haha: :haha:

Justine Fan
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:56 AM
Let's back track. I thought losing the Australian Open was suppose to cost Justine her career? Wasn't she not suppose to win another title ever?

Then months later it was Indian Wells against Elena D. Wasn't that lost suppose to have cost her? What about Miami?

No, clay court WTA titles, end of a winning streak. Wasn't that suppose to cost her any chance of ever winning RG again?

I'm surprise she's still on tour because everything is suppose to not be right for Justine. Damn... being Justine is already too much of a bleeding cost?


Pam should just be honest, and say it. I dislike Justine, and nothing would make me happier than to see her draw fodder for the rest of her career.


;)


:yeah: :lol: :lol:

borisy
Jun 25th, 2006, 02:00 AM
It's funny have some of the Serena-maniacs get aggressive in any thread about Justine. I guess they feel threated now that Justine is approaching Serena's achivements. :lol:

Justine Fan
Jun 25th, 2006, 02:01 AM
It's funny have some of the Serena-maniacs get aggressive in any thread about Justine. I guess they feel threated now that Justine is approaching Serena's achivements. :lol:

Exactly .... hit the nail on the head :yeah:

It's because they have fear, pure fear, that's all it is! :devil: :devil:

dav abu
Jun 25th, 2006, 02:31 AM
I really don't like Pam Shriver. I presume she will unfortunately be doing some of the analysis on BBC again this year providing her not so insightful facts such as Kim and Justine are from Belgium :rolleyes:

venus_rulez
Jun 25th, 2006, 02:41 AM
Please the very nature of tennis and its coverage by the commentators is how fickle it is. They all want to be right. I mean last year at Wimbledon, Venus went from "being in decline and can't do it anymore" as Bud Collins put it in the 3rd round, to "rededicating herself and now hopefully Serena can get it together (despite having won a slam earlier in the year) the commentators want to be wherever the tide swings so it's not surprising some of them are now backtracking their statements.

Greenout
Jun 25th, 2006, 03:18 AM
Please the very nature of tennis and its coverage by the commentators is how fickle it is. They all want to be right. I mean last year at Wimbledon, Venus went from "being in decline and can't do it anymore" as Bud Collins put it in the 3rd round, to "rededicating herself and now hopefully Serena can get it together (despite having won a slam earlier in the year) the commentators want to be wherever the tide swings so it's not surprising some of them are now backtracking their statements.


Super post. So, true. It's kind of disrespectful and lame to suddenly call a player washed up a week before, and herald them as someone you always knew could win after the fact of winning another grand slam.

It's not even about the player, but the tv commentator or former tennis players ego in these forecasting or bandwagon hopping articles.

Let's all agree that a player is great when they've done well on the WTA tour, winning Tier 1's, and winning grand slams. This is the career resume, and every player should be proud of it.

And yes it's true, the modern game has given in to more intensive pressure training. Women doing exercises that only boys would do before like heavy, heavy weight training to build up serves, and shoulder power. There's crazy media pressure, with the internet, and 24 hours sports and news stations reporting everything. This is why when people bring up Borg, or Steffi - it's totally different now.


Sometimes, I'd wish that commentators stop the bullshit, and admit it. "I want **** to win because she's my friend, and I'd be happy for her" or "my husband works for her - he's her IMG agent, off course I want her to win!". Rather than dissing another player's current form, or off court activities as a justification to smear reputation as not the "wimbledon winner".

Justeenium
Jun 25th, 2006, 03:48 AM
Last year, after she won the French Open, Henin-Hardenne rested because she was still somewhat nervous about the virus she contracted in 2004 that took a long time for her to get over. She went into Wimbledon
yet another thing wrong with the article. Justine withdrew because of a bad hamstring.

Great research Pam :yeah:

Morrissey
Jun 25th, 2006, 06:05 AM
Pam Shriver should just write that she doesn't like Justine Henin Hardenne. Pam NEVER has anything nice to say about Justine all she talks is BS.

SelesFan70
Jun 25th, 2006, 06:32 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

As ever SAEKeithSerna shows himself up and makes a complete pratt of himself for the millionth time :haha: :haha:

Don't punish Nicole Pratt! :lol:

Lady
Jun 25th, 2006, 09:40 AM
So Justine chipped and charged today? Did she lure Myskina into net with a short crosscourt slice?
She came in fourty times against Myskina. And??? When has Myskina been known for her passes?

Yes and Yes!
And she actually lured players to the net with her slices even on clay. And she did chip and charge even on clay.

**Jelica**
Jun 25th, 2006, 09:56 AM
She chipped and charged?! :eek: Way to go Justine!

Uranus
Jun 25th, 2006, 10:33 AM
Didn't Shriver say that Justine would be reminded of her AusOpen withdrawal in Paris? Did it happen? I don't think so.
She has a problem with Justine or what? She starts the article mentioning it.
Boo... she's not nearly as talented as Justine is. :o
This article = :tape:

Good luck Justine. Would be good to have a Belgian winning all 4 Slams.

faste5683
Jun 25th, 2006, 10:34 AM
She chipped and charged?! :eek: Way to go Justine!

She chipped (low, heavy slice) and came in a number of times. But she also would hit out with topspin (especially on the backhand side) on Myskina's second serve and came in as well. Kind of a "no guts, no glory" approach.

:wavey:

Carmen Mairena
Jun 25th, 2006, 10:48 AM
Pam :tape:

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Jun 25th, 2006, 12:50 PM
i dont think she will win wimbledon this year but i think she will make the semis pretty surely

Kart
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:29 PM
No. Everyone's now realising that Justine was injured in AO and that if she weren't she would've won.

Hardly.



This article title is a bit misleading - it led me to think Pam was saying Justine's success this year in France is going to cost her the Wimbledon title which isn't really how the article reads.

Allez-H
Jun 25th, 2006, 01:30 PM
Make up your mind Pam :rolleyes: Justine might have cost you your brain if you had any

Martian KC
Jun 25th, 2006, 02:00 PM
How Many Times Will You State How Hard You Were On Justine At The Aussie Open, Pam? Geez!

treufreund
Jun 25th, 2006, 09:49 PM
Pam has ALWAYS been VERY NICE to JUSTINE! and i know that as a juju fan who has watched tons of matches with Pam commentating. Pam just went along with the chorus of criticism to be politically correct rather than defending Justine. Now Pam has come back to her senses. :D

.ivy.
Jun 25th, 2006, 10:54 PM
It's pathetic, Pam trying to get an ass-kissing in. :tape:

Pick an opinion and stick with it.

Drake1980
Jun 25th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Go Justine!!

treufreund
Jun 26th, 2006, 06:06 AM
It's pathetic, Pam trying to get an ass-kissing in. :tape:

Pick an opinion and stick with it.

So people cannot change their minds or admit that they were wrong or open their heart back up to someone once they are down on them? :sad:

switz
Jun 26th, 2006, 06:12 AM
:hearts: And she came to the net around 30-40 times. ;)

and as a result she needed to win in a third set tie break againsta player she cruised against a couple of weeks ago ;)

pla
Jun 26th, 2006, 06:24 AM
and as a result she needed to win in a third set tie break againsta player she cruised against a couple of weeks ago ;)

Anastasia plays incredibly good on grass, and btw- the last part of the RG match was quite disputed.

So..

If Justine wants to win Wimbledon and win other majors more easely, she HAVE to go to the net more often. She knows it very well and is trying to change her game style, even in RG she was doing it, although not all the time because she wasn't really pushed in her matches.

Mother_Marjorie
Jun 26th, 2006, 06:28 AM
Pam Shriver: "I was pretty hard on Justine Henin-Hardenne after she retired in the second set of the Australian Open final against Amelie Mauresmo. The French Open once again showed she is the toughest competitor in women's tennis right now and made me rethink what happened at the Australian. Given her history of fight and determination on the court, she must have really had a major stomach problem that was too painful to continue, even though it looked to most of us like she could have and should have finished the match."