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Volcana
Jun 20th, 2006, 02:08 PM
in other words, ranking counts for nothing, how would they seed the women at the tournament. Obviously, Sharapova would be seeded ahead of Petrova, for example. The idea is to seed according to who's likeliest to win, with grass court results being the best predictor.

Well, don't ignore ranking ...:) but grass results should be 90%, and ranking only 10%.

Ignore ranking. It gets in the way of the discussion.

01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Made semi the two years before.

Higher than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Vaidisova
xx Hingis
xx Mirza
xx Peng
xx Zvonareva
xx Molik
xx Safina
xx Jackson

Note: That doesn't mean I'd seed them ....

Lower than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Clijsters - Good grass court player, but her Wimbledon results ... :(
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, 1r, DNP, SF. what can you do?

Proposed Seeding.....Current Ranking................
.................................................. ..
01 Venus ........... 01 MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA
02 Sharapova ....... 02 CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL
.................... 03 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE BEL
.................... 04 SHARAPOVA, MARIA RUS
.................... 05 PETROVA, NADIA RUS
.................... 06 DAVENPORT, LINDSAY USA
.................... 07 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS
.................... 08 DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 09 PIERCE, MARY FRA
.................... 10 SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI
.................... 11 MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS
.................... 12 WILLIAMS, VENUS USA
.................... 13 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE CZE
.................... 14 SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA ITA
.................... 15 HINGIS, MARTINA SUI
.................... 16 GROENEFELD, ANNA-LENA GER
.................... 17 SAFINA, DINARA RUS
.................... 18 HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK
.................... 19 PENNETTA, FLAVIA ITA
.................... 20 KIRILENKO, MARIA RUS
.................... 21 SUGIYAMA, AI JPN
.................... 22 IVANOVIC, ANA SCG
.................... 23 PEER, SHAHAR ISR
.................... 24 SREBOTNIK, KATARINA SLO
.................... 25 DECHY, NATHALIE FRA
.................... 26 MEDINA GARRIGUES, ANABEL ESP
.................... 27 BARTOLI, MARION FRA
.................... 28 LIKHOVTSEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 29 JANKOVIC, JELENA SCG
.................... 30 LI, NA CHN
.................... 31 ARVIDSSON, SOFIA SWE
.................... 32 GOLOVIN, TATIANA FRA
.................... 33 CHAKVETADZE, ANNA RUS
.................... 38 MIRZA, SANIA IND
.................... 41 PENG, SHUAI CHN
.................... 47 ZVONAREVA, VERA RUS
.................... xx Molik



I will be modifying this initial post, as people's various rationals get posted.

Foot's Fingers
Jun 20th, 2006, 02:11 PM
Patty out of top 10 even out of top 16

Venus higher then now

ALG down

Sofia and Likho a little high but this don't matter

ClaudiaZ-S
Jun 20th, 2006, 02:37 PM
Patty is very bad on grass? :confused:

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 20th, 2006, 02:50 PM
If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.

Foot's Fingers
Jun 20th, 2006, 02:56 PM
01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Didn't play last year, but made semi the two years before.


Momo lost in SF to Lindsay 76(5) 67(4) 46 last year

She have not played in 2003

sfselesfan
Jun 20th, 2006, 02:56 PM
If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.

There is no practical difference between seeds 5-8. I think if they were to bump Venus, they would only bump her up to 8, it would have the same effect as bumping her to 5 without ruffling as many feathers.

SF

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 20th, 2006, 02:57 PM
in other words, ranking counts for nothing, how would they seed the women at the tournament. Obviously, Sharapova would be seeded ahead of Petrova, for example. The idea is to seed according to who's likeliest to win, with grass court results being the best predictor.

Well, don't ignore ranking ...:)

01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Didn't play last year, but made semi the two years before.

Higher than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Vaidisova
xx Hingis
xx Mirza
xx Peng
xx Zvonareva
xx Molik
xx Safina
xx Jackson

Note: That doesn't mean I'd seed them ....

Lower than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Clijsters - Good grass court player, but her Wimbledon results ... :(
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, DNP, 1r, DNP. what can you do?

Proposed Seeding.....Current Ranking................
.................................................. ..
01 Venus ........... 01 MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA
02 Sharapova ....... 02 CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL
.................... 03 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE BEL
.................... 04 SHARAPOVA, MARIA RUS
.................... 05 PETROVA, NADIA RUS
.................... 06 DAVENPORT, LINDSAY USA
.................... 07 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS
.................... 08 DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 09 PIERCE, MARY FRA
.................... 10 SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI
.................... 11 MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS
.................... 12 WILLIAMS, VENUS USA
.................... 13 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE CZE
.................... 14 SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA ITA
.................... 15 HINGIS, MARTINA SUI
.................... 16 GROENEFELD, ANNA-LENA GER
.................... 17 SAFINA, DINARA RUS
.................... 18 HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK
.................... 19 PENNETTA, FLAVIA ITA
.................... 20 KIRILENKO, MARIA RUS
.................... 21 SUGIYAMA, AI JPN
.................... 22 IVANOVIC, ANA SCG
.................... 23 PEER, SHAHAR ISR
.................... 24 SREBOTNIK, KATARINA SLO
.................... 25 DECHY, NATHALIE FRA
.................... 26 MEDINA GARRIGUES, ANABEL ESP
.................... 27 BARTOLI, MARION FRA
.................... 28 LIKHOVTSEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 29 JANKOVIC, JELENA SCG
.................... 30 LI, NA CHN
.................... 31 ARVIDSSON, SOFIA SWE
.................... 32 GOLOVIN, TATIANA FRA
.................... 33 CHAKVETADZE, ANNA RUS
.................... 38 MIRZA, SANIA IND
.................... 41 PENG, SHUAI CHN
.................... 47 ZVONAREVA, VERA RUS
.................... xx Molik



I will be modifying this initial post, as people's various rationals get posted.

I don't think Venus would EVER be #1 this year. Maybe if she was in the top 6, I could see it, but even though she's the best grass player this side of Steffi Graf (and Serena), they wouldn't bump her up THAT much IMHO.

Volcana
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:00 PM
That being said, I don't think they'll do itNo chance on God's Green Earth. But I thought it might be fun to solicit other people's 'why's'.

BTW, no way would I give the #1 seed to a player who's never won a grass court tournament. I don't care what she's ranked.
I don't think Venus would EVER be #1 this year.Of course not. This is just a discussion between people on the board, not any prediction of what the committee will do.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:02 PM
There is no practical difference between seeds 5-8. I think if they were to bump Venus, they would only bump her up to 8, it would have the same effect as bumping her to 5 without ruffling as many feathers.

SF

Yeah, I guess you're right....but it does matter a little bit, in terms of the intangibles. But, yeah, if they put her up that high, it would ruffle some feathers definately

PLP
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:03 PM
If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.
:yeah: I agree w/your seedings and the fact that they aren't going to do it.

Volcana
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:05 PM
Hey! Give me some idea of your opinions of the various players abilities on grass...

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:05 PM
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, DNP, 1r, DNP. what can you do?

Actually, It's SF DNF 1r, but if you expand, it's F SF SF DNP 1r, so it's easier for be to believe in her grass game

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:07 PM
BTW, no way would I give the #1 seed to a player who's never won a grass court tournament. I don't care what she's ranked.
I'd put her @ #1 simply because she IS #1 right now, and she's done better there this past decade than everyone not named Williams or Davenport, and over the past 4 years has out performed everyone except the Willies

*Jean*
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:07 PM
Amélie played last year ;)

Volcana
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:12 PM
Amélie played last year ;)My bad. I was trying to be careful, and go from the WTA charts. And so managed to include a DNP for '06 in everybody's stats.

Volcana
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:14 PM
I'd put her @ #1 simply because she IS #1 right now, and she's done better there this past decade than everyone not named Williams or Davenport, and over the past 4 years has out performed everyone except the WilliesNothing wrong with your reasoning. But my focus is grass court results, and there are a lot of players with better results on that surface. If I were gving current ranking any weight, my seedings would be closer to yours.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Hey! Give me some idea of your opinions of the various players abilities on grass...

Venus, Sharapova, and Mauresmo have the best games for grass, of all the players playing this year. Vaidisova has a good game, but I'm not sure how developed it is yet. All 3 (4) of them have solid serves and good strokes. What's more, though, is that they aren't afraid to step inside the lines. And for Venus and Amelie, they aren't adverse to coming end and deciding points @ the net.

Justine has a good game for grass, but I haven't seen her beat a GRASS player on that surface yet.

The rest of the players play grass like hardcourt. That's why they don't win against players who are smart about grass.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:27 PM
My bad. I was trying to be careful, and go from the WTA charts. And so managed to include a DNP for '06 in everybody's stats. oh....:hug: hehehe it's ok

RAA
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:32 PM
I just think the "grass season" is so ridiculously short that to seed based on it is subject to wild swings based on perhaps one good run at eastbourne or something..

Foot's Fingers
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:33 PM
btw as Davenport and Pirce withdrew may be better to exclude them from the list

Foot's Fingers
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:33 PM
i think Lena Likhovtseva and Jelena Jankovic should be higher then AMG

The Crow
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:50 PM
First of all: obviously current rankings should be included, cause it partly shows which players have played the best tennis in the past year.
Second: although you would seed Justine lower, I wouldn't. You're talking ability to win on grass, yet you dismiss Justine because she lost the only match she played on grass in the last 2 years. Sure, if she would have played say 4 grasscourt matches in the last 2 years and lost them all. I'd agree with you. However before those 2 years, Justine has 1 final at Wimbledon and 2 semi's (if I'm not mistaken) + 1 title on grass.

Rexman
Jun 20th, 2006, 04:17 PM
I applied the actual seeding formula used by Wimbledon for the men and here is what came up.

1. (4) Sharapova-4025
2. (1) Mauresmo-3875
3. (2) Clijsters-3355
4. (6) Davenport-2807
5. (5) Petrova-2507
6. (3) Henin-2410
7. (7) Kuznetsova-2297
8. (12) Venus Williams-2145
9. (8) Dementieva-2054
10. (9) Pierce-1985
11. (10) Schnyder-1783
12. (11) Myskina-1708
13. (13) Vaidisova-1464
14. (14) Schiavone-1413
15. (15) Hingis-1334
16. (16) Groenefeld-1302

LefandePatty
Jun 20th, 2006, 04:23 PM
#4532875432654 Patty Schnyder

sfselesfan
Jun 20th, 2006, 04:27 PM
My ratings of their grass-court ability.

MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA = Grade A-

Great grass court game. Has power, slice and movement. She can hit the ball with confidence from any place on the court. She has SF results to back it up. I don't think she's as big of a head case as everyone else. She seems to have worked harder than any other top woman to constuct a game built for grass...and she deserves to be graded accordingly.

CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL = Grade B

Has had decent showings in the past (i.e. three sets with Lindsay last year). Defending champ at Eastbourne. Former S'Hertogenbosch champion (2003). No major wins over top players on grass though. Biggest take-down at Wimbledon was Tauziat in 2000. Has a nice flat, baseline game...but moves well. She needs short balls to knock out of the air, otherwise she doesn't come to net enough.

HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE BEL = Grade B

Former finalist, and not many players can say this. She's gone deep a couple of times. Former S'Hertogenbosch champion. However, she her only big wins on grass have been against (4) Capriati [2001] and (4) Seles [2002]. She has nice pace on her shots, moves well and can volley with nice touch. Her achilles heel is her backswing, she requires a significant amount of time to get maximum pace and placement on her shots.

SHARAPOVA, MARIA RUS = Grade A-

Gutsy player on grass, which is a major asset. The muscle she puts behind her shots is really rewarded on this surface. She has slice, but rarely employs it. She can cover the court well with her lanky frame. I still think she needs to work on her volleys. She obviously has big wins on the surface. Confidence is important for her, so the fact that she lost to JamJam at Birmingham could be a factor.

PETROVA, NADIA RUS = C+

The fact that she's played on the surface as much as she has helps. Took Masha to a tiebreak last year. She seems to play decent tennis against lesser ranked players, but goes out quickly to higher ranked players. Her skills at net will help her, but her claycourt constructed game will hurt her. Would be higher if she had a little more pace on the low balls. She's capable of shocking me though, and could pull an upset.

KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS = A-

I'm interested in seeing how the new, patient, Kuznetsova does on grass this year. I'm wondering if she'll be less effective this year than in the past. She has a low center of gravity which helps her movement on the slick surface, and allows her to get to the low-bouncing balls. She seems to be capable of hitting deep, or using touch when required. Having played doubles early in her career with Navratilova (when no one else would) has to help her on this surface. She has won the warm-ups in the past, but seems to lose steam once she gets to the big event.

DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS = C-

If only her serve matched her groundies :eek: . Everytime I see her play, her groundstrokes blow me away. She moves well and can get to the low balls. Her achilles heel is obviously her serve, and the problem is exponential on grass. She has lost early to lesser ranked players in the past, and has never beaten a higher seed at Wimbledon (though she did take JHH to two tiebreaks once).

SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI = D+

Her loopy groundstrokes are a major hinderance on this surface. She's never done well, and it would take a miracle for her to go deep in a field as diverse as this year's. While she has GREAT touch, she doesn't hit with pace or have time to set up her shots. She also likes to hit the ball on high bounces.

MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS = C

Loses handedly to higher-ranked players at Wimbledon. She's a competent groundstroker, which doesn't always translate well on grass. She needs to be a little more offensive on this surface to go deep in the tournament. I'd say she's average on this surface. The fact that she's becoming a veteran helps her here, as she'll have a leg up on the younger players in the grasscourt experience department.

WILLIAMS, VENUS USA = A

She has the results (has taken down Wimbledon champions multiple times). She has the experience. She has the game. She looks in-form. She's always confident. Her two weaknesses are her second serve and her streaky forehand. She needs to serve well and keep the points short. I think she's playing better than she ever has at net. Her % at net was 70% at Roland Garros, which is scary on that surface and it translates well to grass.

VAIDISOVA, NICOLE CZE = B (untested)

Untested on this surface 2-3 total on grass. However, she took Kuznetsova to three sets at Wimbledon last year. I'm interested to see how she does with low bouncing balls. Also, she needs to be aggressive and follow short balls to the net...but can she back up her groundies with decent volleys? Her game is scary but streaky. I wouldn't want to have to face her groundies. She's obviously in form.

SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA ITA = C-

She played decently at Birmingham. Help from Navratilova too! Her game is not made for grass, she has big backswing and hits with a lot of loop on her strokes. She is capable of building a Mauresmo-like grasscourt game, but I think she's got a long way to go. She historically exits Wimbledon early to an unseeded player, odds are it will happen again.

HINGIS, MARTINA SUI = B

I like how grass helps her game. She knows what to do on the surface. Her serve is not pathetic on grass. She returns really well. Her anticipation really helps her on grass. She's capable of shortening her backswing, and does on grass. Her net game is flawless, and she places the ball better than any other player on tour. She can probably play the best defensive grasscourt tennis in the draw...but maybe a little too defensively. I wouldn't count the 97 champ out. She's capable of capitalizing on any weakness her opponents show.

GROENEFELD, ANNA-LENA GER = C

She won her first grasscourt match yesterday in three sets over Bartoli. She doesn't have the results, but she's got an aggressive (but streaky) game. I think she needs to mature, but her game will eventually be well suited for the surface. At this point, given her results, on balance she has to be rated as average...but she's a dark-horse with potential to improve.

SAFINA, DINARA RUS = C+

Wins over Kirilenko and Peer at S'Hertogenbosch last year. Took Molik to three sets at Wimbledon in 2003. Otherwise her grass results have been pretty dismal. She seems to have taken her game to a new level. She's been well coached, and is in form. I see her improving this year, question is how much? Has her net game improved any? Her movement hinders her, but her groundies are powerful. I'd say she's still to young to be rated much higher than average.

HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK = B-

She's got a great game for grass and has decent results for her age. She likes the surface. How much will her recent loss affect her? Her groundies are backed up well by her movement, volleys, and touch. I see her as another dark-horse.

Others to watch outside top 16:

IVANOVIC, ANA SCG
PEER, SHAHAR ISR
LIKHOVTSEVA, ELENA RUS
ZVONAREVA, VERA RUS
MOLIK, ALICIA AUS

sfselesfan
Jun 20th, 2006, 04:31 PM
I applied the actual seeding formula used by Wimbledon for the men and here is what came up.

1. (4) Sharapova-4025
2. (1) Mauresmo-3875
3. (2) Clijsters-3355
4. (6) Davenport-2807
5. (5) Petrova-2507
6. (3) Henin-2410
7. (7) Kuznetsova-2297
8. (12) Venus Williams-2145
9. (8) Dementieva-2054
10. (9) Pierce-1985
11. (10) Schnyder-1783
12. (11) Myskina-1708
13. (13) Vaidisova-1464
14. (14) Schiavone-1413
15. (15) Hingis-1334
16. (16) Groenefeld-1302

Actually seems pretty fair. I think Henin should switch places with Petrova though. Henin has better results at Wimbledon and a higher ranking than Nadia.

SF

faboozadoo15
Jun 20th, 2006, 04:38 PM
I applied the actual seeding formula used by Wimbledon for the men and here is what came up.

1. (4) Sharapova-4025
2. (1) Mauresmo-3875
3. (2) Clijsters-3355
4. (6) Davenport-2807
5. (5) Petrova-2507
6. (3) Henin-2410
7. (7) Kuznetsova-2297
8. (12) Venus Williams-2145
9. (8) Dementieva-2054
10. (9) Pierce-1985
11. (10) Schnyder-1783
12. (11) Myskina-1708
13. (13) Vaidisova-1464
14. (14) Schiavone-1413
15. (15) Hingis-1334
16. (16) Groenefeld-1302
00o0oo0 i really like these rankings! but it won't happen, i don't think. and for my favorite player (sharapova) it doesn't make much difference being 4 or 1. although it would be nice to see venus at #7.

Volcana
Jun 21st, 2006, 04:38 AM
My ratings of their grass-court ability. Let's see what the seedings would be, based on your idea of grass court ability. Ties go to ranking, otherwise, the grade rules.

01 WILLIAMS, VENUS USA........... = A
02 MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA.......... = A-
03 SHARAPOVA, MARIA RUS.......... = A-
04 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS...... = A-

05 CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL............ = B
06 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE BEL .. = B
07 HINGIS, MARTINA SUI .......... = B
08 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE CZE ........ = B (untested)

09 HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK ...... = B-
10 PETROVA, NADIA RUS ........... = C+
11 SAFINA, DINARA RUS ........... = C+
12 MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS ....... = C

13 DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS ........ = C-
14 GROENEFELD, ANNA-LENA GER .... = C
15 SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA ITA ..... = C-
16 SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI .......... = D+

I don't entirely agree, but by FAR, the best job of addressing the question the thread actually asks. Kudos.

Reuchlin
Jun 21st, 2006, 04:47 AM
People putting Amelie, Clijsters, Petrove and/or Kuzi AHEAD of Justine are delusional. Justine has won titles on grass, has 2 SFs and one Final. Amelie has 2 SFs. does Kuzi/Petrova even have a 4 round?

timafi
Jun 21st, 2006, 04:58 AM
People putting Amelie, Clijsters, Petrove and/or Kuzi AHEAD of Justine are delusional. Justine has won titles on grass, has 2 SFs and one Final. Amelie has 2 SFs. does Kuzi/Petrova even have a 4 round?

better check your facts straight compadre :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Mauresmo had made not 2 but 3 SEMIS according to none other than the wta tour site

SF in 02
03 DNP
SF in 04
SF in 05

sfselesfan
Jun 21st, 2006, 05:04 AM
Kuznetsova has two QF showings and has had raving reviews about her grass court skills. A win over Sharapova at Wimbledon. She took Lindsay to a tie break last year. She's defending champion at Eastbourne.

I didn't put Petrova in front of Henin so I'm not going to defend that position. I gave Kuznetsova an A- and Henin a B, so I don't see much separating them. I think Sveta is built better for a grass court game. That's the defense of my position. I respect anyone who sees contrary and your arguments make sense.

SF

Reuchlin
Jun 21st, 2006, 05:05 AM
better check your facts straight compadre :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Mauresmo had made not 2 but 3 SEMIS according to none other than the wta tour site

SF in 02
03 DNP
SF in 04
SF in 05
1 Final 2 SF > 3 SF

Sorry.

Reuchlin
Jun 21st, 2006, 05:08 AM
Kuznetsova has two QF showings and has had raving reviews about her grass court skills. A win over Sharapova at Wimbledon. She took Lindsay to a tie break last year. She's defending champion at Eastbourne.

I didn't put Petrova in front of Henin so I'm not going to defend that position. I gave Kuznetsova an A- and Henin a B, so I don't see much separating them. I think Sveta is built better for a grass court game. That's the defense of my position. I respect anyone who sees contrary and your arguments make sense.

SF

Kuzi beat Sharapova when Sharapova was playing her first Wimbledon 7-5 in the third (hardly impressive). And to me an A- is way better than a B. Again: 1 final and 2 Semis > 2 QF and beating Sharapova. Plus, didn't Kuzi lose in the first round of Wimbledon a couple years ago? If you want to talk about taking someone to three sets, Justine took Venus to three sets in the final.

timafi
Jun 21st, 2006, 05:11 AM
1 Final 2 SF > 3 SF

Sorry.
good for you Paga :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

switz
Jun 21st, 2006, 05:16 AM
Patty can play well on grass she just doesn't care enough to try. Not many players can push an in form Sharapova the way Patty did at Birmingham a couple of years ago.

yes she'll be overpowered by the best but she should still beat most players ranked below her.

Based on results at Wimbledon she shouldn't be seeded at all of course. Been to the semis of both leads ups she has played though

Reuchlin
Jun 21st, 2006, 05:16 AM
good for you Paga :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ya, congrats on Amelie's Grand Slam "Win"--if you can call it that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Volcana
Jun 21st, 2006, 05:44 AM
Ya, congrats on Amelie's Grand Slam "Win"--if you can call it that Let me see. Amelie Mauresmo, 2006 Australian Open champion. Yup, it turns out I can call it that. She was going to win, no matter what. That's why Henin-Hardenne quit. And, I might add, Henin-Hardenne herself said as much.

Volcana
Jun 21st, 2006, 05:48 AM
Kuznetsova has two QF showings and has had raving reviews about her grass court skills.'raving reviews' mean nothing. Was it not only two years ago that we had 'raving reviews' of Karolina Sprem's tennis skills. GO back four years. Alexandra Stevenson was a top twenty player. Go back six years. Anna Kournikova was a future #1.

Results count. The rest is silence. Kuzzy ahead of the Belgians on grass is hard to defend on that facts.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 21st, 2006, 06:43 AM
Let me see. Amelie Mauresmo, 2006 Australian Open champion. Yup, it turns out I can call it that. She was going to win, no matter what. That's why Henin-Hardenne quit. And, I might add, Henin-Hardenne herself said as much. who said Henin would have beaten her anyway? I thought Kim had that match wrapped up, and if not for her injury Kimmy would have been the first player since Justine to win 2 consec. slams

sfselesfan
Jun 21st, 2006, 07:10 AM
Kuzi beat Sharapova when Sharapova was playing her first Wimbledon 7-5 in the third (hardly impressive). And to me an A- is way better than a B. Again: 1 final and 2 Semis > 2 QF and beating Sharapova. Plus, didn't Kuzi lose in the first round of Wimbledon a couple years ago? If you want to talk about taking someone to three sets, Justine took Venus to three sets in the final.

Like I said, I respect your opinion...but I disagree. Hopefully we can have another Henin/Kuznetsova match to settle the matter. I personally think Sveta is the better grasscourt player.

SF