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Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 08:39 AM
One of my friends wants to kill himself and I don't know what to do :shrug: I am his closest friend (and pretty much his only friend to be honest) and he has been getting on my nerves all year and me and my group have been ignoring him most of the year because he's always grumpy and thinks the whole world is against him. One of his family members died from cancer a few months ago and he is still upset about it, though he never shows or mentions it. He is angry at me and my other friends because we talk about him behind his back and sometimes to his face (because we don't like him really) and he thinks we don't think he has feelings. He said he might kill himself or one of my friends who has been 'not so nice to him' lately. I don't think he'd kill me (at least I hope not :tape: ) because i have been his only friend for many years now but he has gotten worse and worse. I think he expects me to be nicer to him now because he has said these things but I don't really want to have to put up with his misery for much longer. He always follows me around and rings me up and I don't really know what I should do.

Brett.
May 18th, 2006, 08:42 AM
The most appropriate thing if you should go to counsellor or him....

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 08:46 AM
The most appropriate thing if you should go to counsellor or him....

okay maybe I will just do that. Hopefully it will help...

crazillo
May 18th, 2006, 08:47 AM
OMG, that's a terrible story.

You know, I once did a mistake and lost all my friends because of that (at least nearly). It was around Christmas, I was upset, I was desperate and so on.
I tried to reestablish myself, but it was not worth it. Then I just accepted that I have no chance anymore in this group. Then I found new friends and am happier than ever in that group, although all are from outside school so that it is quite tough at school, but I just don't care about that anymore and when the day is over I see my "other" life.

In your friend's case, I think it is a bit similair. You call him your friend, but on the other hand you say that he is getting on your nerves. You said your group doesn't like him any longer, but I ask myself if he ever was in the group then. I mean you said he is not a real memeber of it. Probably he has to recognize that first of all.
The thing about killing himself: He sounds desperate, but also afraid of death. This is only a way to catch attention, but nowhere at all a serious intention he has. He wants to be tolerated, accepted, but he sees that he fails at that all the time, so now he tries it that way.

I really don't think that he will kill himself. You should make him clear how you see your friendship and the future for him in your group. Maybe you should propose him not to do anything together for a certain time span and when he feels better he can come to you and have a talk about everything.

Hope I could help you a bit. :wavey:

Mattographer
May 18th, 2006, 08:55 AM
Maybe you can talk with him and try to understand what he going to through like pretends to be a counsellor so; it might help him to get better. It's just a thought. If nothing changed then you have no choice but tell his parents about it and send him to counsellor if need. I'm sure it would be everything going to calm in few months.

However, seeing a counsellor doesn't work for me from years ago. The only way to get better is solve the problem by myself.

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 08:56 AM
OMG, that's a terrible story.

You know, I once did a mistake and lost all my friends because of that (at least nearly). It was around Christmas, I was upset, I was desperate and so on.
I tried to reestablish myself, but it was not worth it. Then I just accepted that I have no chance anymore in this group. Then I found new friends and am happier than ever in that group, although all are from outside school so that it is quite tough at school, but I just don't care aobut that anymore and when the day is over I see my "other" life.

In your friend's case, I think it is a bit similair. You call him your friend, but on the other hand you say that he is getting on your nerves. You said your group doesn't like him any longer, but I ask myself if he ever wasi n the group then. I mean you said he is not a real memeber of it. Probably he has to recognize that first of all.
The thing about killing himself: He sounds desperate, but also afraid from death. This is only a way to catch attention, but nowhere at all a serious intention he has. He wants to be tolerated, accepted, but he sees that he fails all the time, so now he tries it that way.

I really don't think that he will kill himself. You should make him clear how you see your friendship, the future for him in your group. Maybe you should propose him not to do anything together for a certain time span and when he feels better he can come to you and have a talk about everything.

Hope I could help you a bit. :wavey:

Sorry to hear that about you Sascha...:hug:

Yes he used to be my best friend until this year when he went weird...everyone in my group just wants me to say something to him because I am probably the closest to him. He has been (or was) in our group for a year or two but before this group, we were in another group of 4 which split up because two of the other guys left because they were sick of him...
A few weeks ago we went to one of my friends house and he turned up uninvited, even though we told him through txt messages not to bother...it's not like we haven't made it obvious we don't like him, we have dropped a million hints but he just doesn't get it. One week he asked me why everyone 'hates him' and i said because he has such a negative dimena and attitude and people don't want to be around that, but he just said that that's the person he is and he can't change it.

Thanks for the advice Sascha, I think I will just talk to him and hopefully he will just understand that he needs to change his attitude. I think you're right that he is just looking for attention and acceptance.

AjdeNate!
May 18th, 2006, 09:21 AM
Sometimes people just don't feel they can go on and live any longer. The pain of suffering through every day and barely feeling that you can even breath is overwhelming. Obviously this friend is in a tough spot now, and by you and your other friends turning your back on him in his time of need is contributing to the problem. A true friend would have such a flagrant disregard for their friend's emotional and mental well being. Obviously your friend has been trying to reach out to you and your group for help; hence the change in his demeanor. But your group however has seen this as more of an inconvenience to your own lives and have segregated yourselves from him and even shunned your friend in need to status less than he was before; which ultimately just has exacerbated the whole situation to a new level. While I don't proclaim to know anything about your friend, it just seems to me that he's been trying to get your attention and help fighting through whatever ill has befallen him. A lot of people suicide is a viable option, myself included. However, your friend is reaching out; and has been. If his cries for help continue to be ignored, or worse yet continue to be used negatively against him, he most likely will resort with the only action he feels remains to end his suffering.

LH2HBH
May 18th, 2006, 09:24 AM
Whatever you do, don't tell him that you got his lifesaving advice from your buddies at WTAWorld.

AjdeNate!
May 18th, 2006, 09:25 AM
turned up uninvited, even though we told him through txt messages not to bother.He needs support and compassion and help, not to be ignored and further denounced.
it's not like we haven't made it obvious we don't like him, we have dropped a million hints but he just doesn't get it.
If your group are his 'friends' and treat him that way, I'd hate to meet his enemies.
One week he asked me why everyone 'hates him' and i said because he has such a negative dimena and attitude and people don't want to be around that, but he just said that that's the person he is and he can't change it.
You should never push a desperate soul closer to suicide by agreeing that everyone hates him. He's also admitting that he can't change on his own. He's given you all the tools you need to help him help himself; you just haven't been able to get passed yourselves and be proactive. Continuing to create and foster a negative feel of self-worth for you friend is more distructive than anything. He's calling out for help and your group seems to self absorbed to be bothered to try.

Just my two cents.

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 09:30 AM
Sometimes people just don't feel they can go on and live any longer. The pain of suffering through every day and barely feeling that you can even breath is overwhelming. Obviously this friend is in a tough spot now, and by you and your other friends turning your back on him in his time of need is contributing to the problem. A true friend would have such a flagrant disregard for their friend's emotional and mental well being. Obviously your friend has been trying to reach out to you and your group for help; hence the change in his demeanor. But your group however has seen this as more of an inconvenience to your own lives and have segregated yourselves from him and even shunned your friend in need to status less than he was before; which ultimately just has exacerbated the whole situation to a new level. While I don't proclaim to know anything about your friend, it just seems to me that he's been trying to get your attention and help fighting through whatever ill has befallen him. A lot of people suicide is a viable option, myself included. However, your friend is reaching out; and has been. If his cries for help continue to be ignored, or worse yet continue to be used negatively against him, he most likely will resort with the only action he feels remains to end his suffering.


Maybe i explained it wrong. I've tried talking to him and i've been nothing more than a friend to him until recently when he's gotten bad. Our group has never really wanted to be his friend yet he hangs around us so that he thinks he is part of our group, and now he tries to make us feel bad. Honestly, if I really thought he was going to kill himself I would have done something. I know it looks like we have shunned him and that hasn't helped, but some people in my group have never really liked him and I can't see them helping him out when he has been so pessimisstic and agressive towards them for over a year. He loves the idea of suicide and he is a self-proclaimed emo (even though he doesn't look like an emo and emo's don't confess being emo) so he thinks that kind of thing is cool. He's the kind of person who can mock other people but can't laugh at himself. He's had my attention for a long time and he just expects me and others to accept him and be his friend when he gives us no reason to. My other friends think that we should just tell him that he needs to change his attitude. Seriously, who wants to hang around someone who's always pessimisstic and can mock others but not himself? But yes I will talk to him because I can see he needs help. Thanks for putting it into perspective.

AjdeNate!
May 18th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Maybe i explained it wrong. ...
Point taken. :wavey:
I just am overly sympathetic to someone who wants to commit suicide and needs help as I nearly lose that battle myself everyday.

bionic71
May 18th, 2006, 09:33 AM
You claim to be one of his closest friends, yet admit to talking behind his back and ignoring him.....that doesn't come close to my definition of what being a friend entails.
If he is going through such a difficutlt time then he needs some compassion.
It may all be a cry for attention....but you should never dismiss someone in such a situation.

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 09:33 AM
You should never push a desperate soul closer to suicide by agreeing that everyone hates him. He's also admitting that he can't change on his own. He's given you all the tools you need to help him help himself; you just haven't been able to get passed yourselves and be proactive. Continuing to create and foster a negative feel of self-worth for you friend is more distructive than anything. He's calling out for help and your group seems to self absorbed to be bothered to try.

Just my two cents.

Don't worry, when he asked me why everyone hates him I said they don't, but they aren't friendly to him because he has a negative attitude. We're not self absorbed. You are obviously reading it wrong. Don't get me wrong I would be the first person to help someone if they were thinking of commiting suicide. But you just don't know this guy...it's so hard to explain.

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 09:36 AM
You claim to be one of his closest friends, yet admit to talking behind his back and ignoring him.....that doesn't come close to my definition of what being a friend entails.
If he is going through such a difficutlt time then he needs some compassion.
It may all be a cry for attention....but you should never dismiss someone in such a situation.

I used to be his closest friend, I don't see why I should be forced to be his friend because other people don't like him. He knows that I don't like him all that much as I used to, but he just clings to me because he doesn't know where else to go. I know I sound harsh but....it's easy to say that you would help someone in a situation like this, but it's another thing doing it if you know what my friend is like.

bionic71
May 18th, 2006, 09:36 AM
Maybe i explained it wrong. I've tried talking to him and i've been nothing more than a friend to him until recently when he's gotten bad. Our group has never really wanted to be his friend yet he hangs around us so that he thinks he is part of our group, and now he tries to make us feel bad. Honestly, if I really thought he was going to kill himself I would have done something. I know it looks like we have shunned him and that hasn't helped, but some people in my group have never really liked him and I can't see them helping him out when he has been so pessimisstic and agressive towards them for over a year. He loves the idea of suicide and he is a self-proclaimed emo (even though he doesn't look like an emo and emo's don't confess being emo) so he thinks that kind of thing is cool. He's the kind of person who can mock other people but can't laugh at himself. He's had my attention for a long time and he just expects me and others to accept him and be his friend when he gives us no reason to. My other friends think that we should just tell him that he needs to change his attitude. Seriously, who wants to hang around someone who's always pessimisstic and can mock others but not himself? But yes I will talk to him because I can see he needs help. Thanks for putting it into perspective.

Just read this second post of yours....
I understand that he may not be a great person to have around at the moment....

How old is this "group"? Are we talking school age????

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 09:39 AM
Just read this second post of yours....
I understand that he may not be a great person to have around at the moment....

How old is this "group"? Are we talking school age????

Yes, we are 16 and 17 but we know what common sense and compassion are.

What would you do in a situation like this? If you didn't want to be around him, but you wanted to help him. That's what I want to do. I am just finding it hard to find the right thing to say to him. But I don't want to help him so much that he relies on me.

crazillo
May 18th, 2006, 09:41 AM
I think this guy seems to be a clamp or something. He is not able to see that in his current siuation the group is only bothered by him. Probably you should have explained him before that you see him as a friend, but not the group.
I think he didn't understand this yet.
But a clamp is not so easy to remove... I guess he's only seeking attention.

You should be honest to him (I mean to tell him your honest opinion), but also say him what he can improve.
If he doesn't know what to improve he can't do it. But if he fails to improve over a certain time span you guys can still say that it would be the best if you wouldn't see each other anymore.

But I agree - the term "best friend" is maybe valid from his position. But I don't think it is the same the other way around, right? ;)

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 09:43 AM
I think this guy seems to be a clamp or something. He is not able to see that in his current siuation the group is only bothered by him. Probably you should have explained him before that you see him as a friend, but not the group.
I think he didn't understand this yet.
But a clamp is not so easy to remove... I guess he'S only seeking attention.

You should be honest to him (I mean to tell him your honest opinion), but also say him what he can improve.
If he doesn't know what to improve he can't do it. But if he fails to improve over a certain time span you guys can still say that it would be the best if you wouldn't see each other anymore.

But I agree - the term "best friend" is maybe valid from his position. But I don't think it is the same the other way around, right? ;)

Yes, that's right. I have told him how he can improve, but he just says that that is the person he is. It seems I can't do anything about it except accept him and be his friend, which I don't want to be!

bionic71
May 18th, 2006, 09:44 AM
Yes, we are 16 and 17 but we know what common sense and compassion are.

What would you do in a situation like this? If you didn't want to be around him, but you wanted to help him. That's what I want to do. I am just finding it hard to find the right thing to say to him. But I don't want to help him so much that he relies on me.

You should do what you feel is right and what you are capable of dealing with...

If you feel he needs your help and additional attention, despite what your "group" think about him, then it is worth giving him the support you feel he needs. You may end up being the only person from your "group" that feels he needs such support....or is willing to provide it....
Only you can decide whether you are able to work outside your "groups" perspective and spend some time with him.
Your help may be very beneficial.

Otherwise, you need to step away...but try and stop your "group" from speaking of him in a negative way, especialy behind his back. If he truly depressed and isolated then this could harm him further.

ceiling_fan
May 18th, 2006, 09:49 AM
That is a tricky one Ben.

Best thing would be to tell the counsellor but maybe not the part about murder or suicide, because then his parents would be called, and ur friend would be kinda pissed, to say the least.

But anyway, even though u don't like him, u have to help him. It's the life or death of a person verses how much he annoys you. Think about it and hope it works out! :hug:

Yasmine
May 18th, 2006, 09:52 AM
It's a hard situation... But someone like him needs people to stick around him even when he's a pain in the neck and negative and etc. And also to do something active about it. Ignoring him won't help but taking him to a counsellor or talk to him might (or might not) patience is a master word and it's far from being easy. Have you talked to his close family, parents/sieblings?

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 09:58 AM
Thanks for your advice everyone :hug:

bionic71
May 18th, 2006, 09:59 AM
Ben..I am not being a prick about your situation..sorry if I sounded bitchy in my posts above.

However, suicide (esp youth suicide) is something I feel incredibly strongly about.
In the past 5 years I have lost a couple of students to suicide....both of which were your age...
Your descriptions above remind me of one such student in particular....who became increasingly detatched from his peer group, became the brunt of jokes etc.
Just be careful with the comments you and your peer group make towards and about him. You are sensible enough to steer away from potentially harmful comments I am sure.

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 10:01 AM
You should do what you feel is right and what you are capable of dealing with...

If you feel he needs your help and additional attention, despite what your "group" think about him, then it is worth giving him the support you feel he needs. You may end up being the only person from your "group" that feels he needs such support....or is willing to provide it....
Only you can decide whether you are able to work outside your "groups" perspective and spend some time with him.
Your help may be very beneficial.

Otherwise, you need to step away...but try and stop your "group" from speaking of him in a negative way, especialy behind his back. If he truly depressed and isolated then this could harm him further.

Thanks Shane

That's the thing, I can't step away even though I want to. I guess you're right.


It's a hard situation... But someone like him needs people to stick around him even when he's a pain in the neck and negative and etc. And also to do something active about it. Ignoring him won't help but taking him to a counsellor or talk to him might (or might not) patience is a master word and it's far from being easy. Have you talked to his close family, parents/sieblings?

No not really, I know he and his dad don't get along at all and he is an only child. His mother I assume knows about him but yeah...i'll see how it goes tomorrow.

:kiss:

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 10:02 AM
That is a tricky one Ben.

Best thing would be to tell the counsellor but maybe not the part about murder or suicide, because then his parents would be called, and ur friend would be kinda pissed, to say the least.

But anyway, even though u don't like him, u have to help him. It's the life or death of a person verses how much he annoys you. Think about it and hope it works out! :hug:

Thanks for your advice :hug: :kiss:

adam_ads_n
May 18th, 2006, 10:02 AM
He won't do that. If someone wants to kill himself he doesn't tell it to anyone. I have a bit of expierience in such things.

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 10:04 AM
Ben..I am not being a prick about your situation..sorry if I sounded bitchy in my posts above.

However, suicide (esp youth suicide) is something I feel incredibly strongly about.
In the past 5 years I have lost a couple of students to suicide....both of which were your age...
Your descriptions above remind me of one such student in particular....who became increasingly detatched from his peer group, became the brunt of jokes etc.
Just be careful with the comments you and your peer group make towards and about him. You are sensible enough to steer away from potentially harmful comments I am sure.

No you didn't sound bitchy, you were logical. I have talked about it with some other people in my group and we're going to talk to him tomorrow. Hopefully he understands.

:wavey:

AjdeNate!
May 18th, 2006, 10:30 AM
He won't do that. If someone wants to kill himself he doesn't tell it to anyone. I have a bit of expierience in such things.
Not necessarily the case. If someone says it and nobody helps, there's a high probability the person will eventually follow through. At least that's what I think. The thought has to be there first and then the final stimuli which causes the final act to occur. That's my take on it based on my own personal feeling. But of course most days I'm like 3.8 seconds from doing it anyway. So I could be not exactly a true representation of the suicidal demographic.

bionic71
May 18th, 2006, 11:34 AM
Not necessarily the case. If someone says it and nobody helps, there's a high probability the person will eventually follow through. At least that's what I think. The thought has to be there first and then the final stimuli which causes the final act to occur. That's my take on it based on my own personal feeling. But of course most days I'm like 3.8 seconds from doing it anyway. So I could be not exactly a true representation of the suicidal demographic.

As you say doll...."not necessarily the case"

Of the 2 students I mentioned in my post above....1 spoke of killing himself a number of times in the months leading his eventually death. The other, despite openly discussing with me his lonliness and persona troubles did not actual mention wanting to suicide.

"Sluggy"
May 18th, 2006, 12:03 PM
it sounds like this person is disrupting the harmony of the group. Of course, i empethasize with that person, but he might be pushing other people to the point where they want to join him... and there might be a person for whom his behaviour is a problem and they are not telling anyone. sounds like your friend should be hospitalized or at lest hide himself in his room, until he is ready to come out and act in a reasonably normal way

Mattographer
May 18th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Off the topic but suicide related, I believe I read somewhere that Australia is the highest suicide committed in the world even higher than USA.

alfonsojose
May 18th, 2006, 01:07 PM
Tell him to ask for medical help.

bionic71
May 18th, 2006, 01:08 PM
Off the topic but suicide related, I believe I read somewhere that Australia is the highest suicide committed in the world even higher than USA.


I am unsure how the figures compare to the US, but Australian figures are indeed very high as you point out......especially for youth related suicide in rural areas.

Scotso
May 18th, 2006, 05:05 PM
Tell him to ask for medical help.

People who are depressed really need to be forced into such things, they won't seek it out.

Scotso
May 18th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Okay, so first you should decide it he really might hurt himself or others. If you think he will, then you need to talk to your school counselor or another authority figure who could get this guy some help. Secondly, you need to stop talking badly about him behind his back. I doesn't matter who the person is, doing such things is really, really in poor taste. Also, as much as you dislike him, if he's really in such bad shape you should stop being so mean to him to his face. You know, part of his problem maybe be that you guys treat him so badly. You say you're his only friend, so if his only friend talks about him behind his back and says mean things to his face... yeah, I can see why he might want to die.

I understand your point of view, sometimes people are extremely annoying and only talk about everything that's negative in life, and it's tiresome. But you should also just be more understanding... there might come a time in your life when you feel the same way, and you would probably want to be treated better than you and your friends are treating this guy.

timafi
May 18th, 2006, 06:41 PM
your friend needs help,and i'd find him :help: :help: ...fast (I guess they're should be a suicide hotline number,call information in your town)
be strong for your friend mate,he needs you :hug: :hug:

Helen Lawson
May 18th, 2006, 06:44 PM
Be nice to him and stop ragging on him. This does not mean you have to be friends, though. Also, tell a counselor or someone at school. I know, not a cool thing to do, but it could save his life. You're not qualified to counsel the guy, don't try to and the guy end up dead. He's not your responsibility, so tell a counselor at school.

GrandSlam05
May 18th, 2006, 07:03 PM
Be nice to him and stop ragging on him. This does not mean you have to be friends, though. Also, tell a counselor or someone at school. I know, not a cool thing to do, but it could save his life. You're not qualified to counsel the guy, don't try to and the guy end up dead. He's not your responsibility, so tell a counselor at school.
I think you're overreacting, Miss Crawford.

Helen Lawson
May 18th, 2006, 07:05 PM
I think you're overreacting, Miss Crawford.

And I think you're underreacting, Mrs. Chadwick!

LefandePatty
May 18th, 2006, 07:05 PM
me and my group have been ignoring him most of the year ... we talk about him behind his back and sometimes to his face.

you're so mean :o :awww:

cellophane
May 18th, 2006, 07:19 PM
Well, I'm not in a completely similar situation, but I told an overly clingy person I've talked to online for a few months, (not with me), I didn't want to talk to her anymore because of her attitude. I understand the person is clingy because of being lonely, but I just hate stuff like that. Am I an asshole? :o (expects a "yes, you are not emotionally mature enough" :o :p )

Pheobo
May 18th, 2006, 07:40 PM
How is he your closest friend if you talk shit about him all the time?

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 08:39 PM
How is he your closest friend if you talk shit about him all the time?

I already explained that.

Hayato
May 18th, 2006, 09:30 PM
you're so mean :o :awww:

lol actually it's the other way around, we're not mean to him for no reason, he gives as good as he gets. As I said, he can mock others but not himself. I want to help him though, so I will talk to him today.

AjdeNate!
May 19th, 2006, 05:27 AM
Ultimately it's his choice, and if you've tried to help; it's all you can do. Some people don't accept help and that's their choice. Sure it'd be a happy, peaceful, and more easy to accept world if we could believe that everyone was happy happy happy and blissfully unaware of any pain in life. But that's just not possible. Some people just can't deal, and shouldn't be forced to. However, it's the living that get left behind and will have questions and sadness. So it's important to try your best. And after that, it's really up to him. If he's determined enough to do it; he will.