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View Full Version : check it out, US discussing whether to reveal homosexuality of History's homosexuals


"Sluggy"
May 16th, 2006, 04:20 PM
i dont know how to post the link. but click on this and then look at the list, and there is a 2-minute video.

http://edition.cnn.com/

Lord only knows how many influential people are/were gay. I've always wondered about famous bandits - and what about the pirates? ya never heard about them having many women on board, eh? :)

The mother on the video says that she cant see why their gayness is relevant if their accomplishments are not related to their sexuality. But how do you accomplish a gay invention? or write a gay constitution, or save a gay serviceman?? etc... I tend to look at it the opposite way - Their accomplishments, good or bad, are even more fantastic when you consider the clandestine lives they had to lead being gay (it is an added challenge), AND, when you consider SOME of the paranoia that conservatives have towards homosexuals (for instance, that they cant be trusted), thier trustworthiness is obvious when you consider their accomplishments.

CJ07
May 16th, 2006, 04:40 PM
I don't think its relevant. You wouldn't say oh, so and so was straight btw. If its not relevant to the context of the history, then its not necessary.

GrandSlam05
May 16th, 2006, 04:44 PM
I don't think its relevant. You wouldn't say oh, so and so was straight btw. If its not relevant to the context of the history, then its not necessary.
It wouldn't be relevant if we lived in a perfect world, but Americans need to see that gay people do great things not just party and have orgies all the time.

"Sluggy"
May 16th, 2006, 04:46 PM
I don't think its relevant. You wouldn't say oh, so and so was straight btw. If its not relevant to the context of the history, then its not necessary.

Why not?

Thats what the mother in the video said. But we assume just about everyone in history, especially say since before the 1900's, is straight. In any case, heterosexual romances are glorified, why not gay ones? I find it interesting to know that some famous and accomplished people were gay. of course, its my personal feeling only.

griffin
May 16th, 2006, 04:46 PM
The fact that we exist, and contributed to the history of the planet in meaningful ways, is relevant.

"Sluggy"
May 16th, 2006, 04:48 PM
The fact that we exist, and contributed to the history of the planet in meaningful ways, is relevant.

Yeah, exactly!

And what about Pirates? there must have been lots of gay pirates, no? living out at sea, stealing food and gold, but few or no women? What about the contributions of gay pirates?

Solitaire
May 16th, 2006, 04:51 PM
Yeah, exactly!

And what about Pirates? there must have been lots of gay pirates, no? living out at sea, stealing food and gold, but few or no women? What about the contributions of gay pirates?


:lol: U sure love the idea of "gay pirates" ;)

griffin
May 16th, 2006, 04:52 PM
Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of astroglide ;)

LoveFifteen
May 16th, 2006, 04:53 PM
I don't think its relevant. You wouldn't say oh, so and so was straight btw. If its not relevant to the context of the history, then its not necessary.

You feel this way because you are straight. If you were gay, you would feel differently.

This is like saying "Why should they tell people that so-and-so dealt with bi-polar disorder, was deaf, was an orphan, etc. Do they say everyone else had good mental health, could hear, had two parents?"

"Sluggy"
May 16th, 2006, 04:54 PM
:lol: U sure love the idea of "gay pirates" ;)

Well yeah i do. Why not? Pirates were tough. Gays sometimes suffer an image crisis, heck there are tons of tough gay people, just as capable as any person of stealing the gold and taking the food and loot. gotta love the pirates. And of course, sailors (non-pirates) were gay too, surely 10%.

"Sluggy"
May 16th, 2006, 04:55 PM
Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of astroglide ;)

oh yeah, astroglide, havent heard that word in about 10 years. :lol:

"Sluggy"
May 16th, 2006, 04:58 PM
time to call it a day, work day is over, - i do however feel differently about "outing" people. if someone doesnt want to come out about being gay then dont out them, but a person who lived 200 ago would probably love to help other gay people, and non-gay people who for whatever reason can relate, sharing that they were gay. I can only imagine how difficult it was to succeed as a gay person - what with the fear and hatred against them.

Solitaire
May 16th, 2006, 05:01 PM
Well yeah i do. Why not? Pirates were tough. Gays sometimes suffer an image crisis, heck there are tons of tough gay people, just as capable as any person of stealing the gold and taking the food and loot. gotta love the pirates. And of course, sailors (non-pirates) were gay too, surely 10%.


hahaha theres nothing wrong with it what so ever. :)

Andy T
May 16th, 2006, 05:06 PM
Yeah, exactly!

And what about Pirates? there must have been lots of gay pirates, no? living out at sea, stealing food and gold, but few or no women? What about the contributions of gay pirates?

Thanks for this fantasy - I'll enjoy exploring it............:lol:

propi
May 16th, 2006, 06:43 PM
What about the contributions of gay pirates?

https://espacioseguro.com/mirahiphop/catalog/images/Pirate2.jpg

Yep, you're right it's a great contribution and seems pretty gay to me ;) :p

CJ07
May 16th, 2006, 08:53 PM
Hmm, I actually take that back.

I think the problem, or a problem, that many people have, is that when people think "gay person" then they think of the stereotype that is to many people very off-putting. Especially parents who are sending their kids to school.

IF this can be used as a way to turn that stereotype around be like look gays are no different than straights etc. and that the streotype is a bunch of BS, then I wouldn't mind that....I really think that gays need a sort of "Cosby Show" to demonstrate that the streotype isn't valid. Or is it? I think the LGBT community needs to decide that first.

kosmikgroove
May 16th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Yeah, exactly!

And what about Pirates? there must have been lots of gay pirates, no? living out at sea, stealing food and gold, but few or no women? What about the contributions of gay pirates?

i knew johnny depp and orlando bloom were secretly butt pirates... thar be booty aboard that there ship says I! Rrrr!

tenn_ace
May 16th, 2006, 09:19 PM
The fact that we exist, and contributed to the history of the planet in meaningful ways, is relevant.


it's true, but does that mean all straights and bi's should also be identified in those books? what if there are people who are not in any of the 3 categories above? Should they be identified as well? :p

Timariot
May 16th, 2006, 09:26 PM
The mother on the video says that she cant see why their gayness is relevant if their accomplishments are not related to their sexuality. But how do you accomplish a gay invention? or write a gay constitution, or save a gay serviceman?? etc... I tend to look at it the opposite way - Their accomplishments, good or bad, are even more fantastic when you consider the clandestine lives they had to lead being gay (it is an added challenge), AND, when you consider SOME of the paranoia that conservatives have towards homosexuals (for instance, that they cant be trusted), thier trustworthiness is obvious when you consider their accomplishments.

I think that's exactly the wrong way to accomplish that. If you start teaching "Oh and Michelangelo was also gay, isn't that great?!" its only singling them out based on their sexuality again. I thought the whole point is to achieve a point where someone's sexuality isn't a big deal? I mean, sure, I'm not against mentioning such trivia in passing, but if you start gloating about someone's gayness, then you're going to wrong direction.

It reminds me of that South Park episode with a nurse who had dead fetus on her head, and the town had huge celebration to "honour" her "struggle"...

CJ07
May 16th, 2006, 09:50 PM
I think that's exactly the wrong way to accomplish that. If you start teaching "Oh and Michelangelo was also gay, isn't that great?!" its only singling them out based on their sexuality again. I thought the whole point is to achieve a point where someone's sexuality isn't a big deal? I mean, sure, I'm not against mentioning such trivia in passing, but if you start gloating about someone's gayness, then you're going to wrong direction.

It reminds me of that South Park episode with a nurse who had dead fetus on her head, and the town had huge celebration to "honour" her "struggle"...
bingo.

griffin
May 16th, 2006, 09:58 PM
I think that's exactly the wrong way to accomplish that. If you start teaching "Oh and Michelangelo was also gay, isn't that great?!" its only singling them out based on their sexuality again. I thought the whole point is to achieve a point where someone's sexuality isn't a big deal? I mean, sure, I'm not against mentioning such trivia in passing, but if you start gloating about someone's gayness, then you're going to wrong direction.

It reminds me of that South Park episode with a nurse who had dead fetus on her head, and the town had huge celebration to "honour" her "struggle"...

"Bingo"? Bunk.

Pointing out that Michelangelo was gay (or might have been) is not "singling him out based on his sexuality" - it's afirming the entirety of who he was, and refusing to ignore inconvenient parts of his life. The fact is, someone's sexuality IS a big deal right now, if it weren't, people wouldn't have a cow and a half every time it was suggested that this or that historical figure was gay. Whether someone was married or had kids "isn't a big deal" - but we still talk about it, we still record it.

Ignoring our history, our existance, will NOT get us to the point where it doesn't matter. It accomplishes quite the opposite, in fact. This is a bogus argument.

Acknowledging the non-heterosexuality of historical figures (good and bad) actually COUNTERS the tendency to regard lgbt people as oddities because it reminds us that we really are and have been part of everyday life.

VivalaSeles
May 16th, 2006, 10:02 PM
Pointing out that Michelangelo was gay (or might have been) is not "singling him out based on his sexuality" - it's afirming the entirety of who he was, and refusing to ignore inconvenient parts of his life. The fact is, someone's sexuality IS a big deal right now, if it weren't, people wouldn't have a cow and a half every time it was suggested that this or that historical figure was gay. Ignoring our history, our existance, will NOT get us to the point where it doesn't matter - it accomplishes quite the opposite, in fact.

Acknowledging the non-heterosexuality of historical figures (good and bad) actually COUNTERS the tendency to regard lgbt people as oddities because it reminds us that we really are and have been part of everyday life.

B-R-A-V-O :bounce::kiss::worship:

Especially because in a hetero-driven world, everybody is supposed to be straight. And if you say nothing, all these historical figures (good or bad) are supposed to be straight. It is as if we were watching one of those biopics of the 40s and 50s where Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Tchaikovsky were all straight and had intense love affairs with women.

TdF_DBLL
May 16th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Well you historical figures, but the problem is it still happens in some countries. There is just a respect problem between people and I can't figure out why cause from the outside 'we're all te same' and as long as they don't bother you, there should be no problem.

"Sluggy"
May 17th, 2006, 01:11 PM
I think it is very good - i'll attempt to illustrate what i think is good about, and your posts are very interesting, very good to read some differing viewpoints.

I think that most people feel the need to be connected to others - it might be a need for love but mostly, i think its the need to feel like you are not alone in your thoughts and actions. And how helpful is that? It is when we feel totally isolated and wierd that we do the STRANGEST THINGS WITH THE MOST DEPRAVITY. of course, i am not behaviouroligist, but thats what i think. Its the ability to say "hey, that person also had these feelings and desires, also acts X or Y way, and he/she was able to achieve X Y Z and dealt with the same feelings in X Y Z way." I think it would help ease the suffering of SOME people (while disgusting many more perhaps :rolleyes: ). I also believe that it shouldnt be only history's angles whose sexuality identity or other hidden aspects would be interesting to reveal. Pirates also were part of our great history. Pirates seem to have been pretty nice to each other, they sang songs and drank together and seem to have had a good time when they had food and RUM. for travelers, it even added some element of thrill to thier adventure. And for many, it created a livelihood - it made necessary a military force to combat this band of ruffians.

When it boils down to it homosexuality is nothing more than love for the same sex. What's wrong with a man loving a man and wanting to share sex with him if is consensual? Not only did humankind advance "in spite of homosexuality", it thrived because of homosexuality. who knows what tremendous things were achieved BECAUSE of same sex love? Certainly 10%, hehe.