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*JR*
May 12th, 2006, 12:16 AM
Apart from "natural talent" and what their tennis coaches taught them, fitness obviously plays a big role in this game. (Especially in hot weather and 3 setters. Even more so when you combine those 2 factors). So who's got it and who needs it, in your opinion? Incidentally, as Serena will be inactive for quite a while it seems, she should get a "pass" here, IMO.

I'll start: (much as I hate to admit it) the Peppermint Puzzle is almost never beaten due to a lack of stamina; and Kim not only has that, but her legendary great flexibility. I'll save any knocks on anyone for tomorrow or whenever. And incidentally, they don't need 2B top players (or even attractive) 2B "highly ranked" in terms of fitness.

LH2HBH
May 12th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Who's the Peppermint Puzzle?

Anastasia is known for her quickness around the court and for toughing out long matches.

DutchieGirl
May 12th, 2006, 12:47 AM
Peppermint Puzzle - Patty Schnyder...

vogus
May 12th, 2006, 12:51 AM
you knew i'd like this thread, didn't you?

Nuts and bolts tennis talk is not real crowd-pleasing stuff here at wtaworld, but i could discuss this particular issue all day.

Henin, Clisters, Kuznetsova, Mauresmo, Dementieva and Schiavone all have great fitness.

Sharapova, Venus Williams, and especially Davenport are not so good - not surprising since their games are built on offense.

Shenanigans
May 12th, 2006, 01:01 AM
and Kim not only has that, but her legendary great flexibility. I'll save any knocks on anyone for tomorrow or whenever. And incidentally, they don't need 2B top players (or even attractive) 2B "highly ranked" in terms of fitness.

I would disagree with you about Kim she looked knackered in the final set against Amélie in the Aus open and also Justine she does have a fragile body, as we are told!
Amélie, Patty, Lena D and Nadia IMO are the marathon runners.

Wannabeknowitall
May 12th, 2006, 01:02 AM
you knew i'd like this thread, didn't you?

Nuts and bolts tennis talk is not real crowd-pleasing stuff here at wtaworld, but i could discuss this particular issue all day.

Henin, Clisters, Kuznetsova, Mauresmo, Dementieva and Schiavone all have great fitness.

Sharapova, Venus Williams, and especially Davenport are not so good - not surprising since their games are built on offense.

I disagree a little on your view.
Dementieva is pretty fit but she does wilt in the heat from time to time as we have seen in Australia.
Davenport usually plays some of the hottest tournaments on tour and usually never has any issues.
She would actually prefer to play in the heat than not to.

Her match against Molik at the 2005 Australian Open was one of the longest matches on tour and one of the hottest matches as well.
In the case of Lindsay, it's really never about fitness.
She's a tall girl like Hantuchova who will never be quick on the court no matter if she loses another 20 pounds.
Players slowly start to get in her head and make her indecisive on shots, that's what dismantles Lindsay.

Wannabeknowitall
May 12th, 2006, 01:06 AM
I would disagree with you about Kim she looked knackered in the final set against Amélie in the Aus open and also Justine she does have a fragile body, as we are told!
Amélie, Patty, Lena D and Nadia IMO are the marathon runners.

Nadia was barely able to deal with the heat at Charleston.
Kim was running on one good leg the whole Australian Open and still made the semis.
Dementieva again has a tendency to wilt in the heat of tournis.

vogus
May 12th, 2006, 01:08 AM
I disagree a little on your view.
Dementieva is pretty fit but she does wilt in the heat from time to time as we have seen in Australia.
Davenport usually plays some of the hottest tournaments on tour and usually never has any issues.
She would actually prefer to play in the heat than not to.

Her match against Molik at the 2005 Australian Open was one of the longest matches on tour and one of the hottest matches as well.
In the case of Lindsay, it's really never about fitness.
She's a tall girl like Hantuchova who will never be quick on the court no matter if she loses another 20 pounds.
Players slowly start to get in her head and make her indecisive on shots, that's what dismantles Lindsay.


Tennis fitness is not really about total match length. It is about total number of balls struck and total distance run during the match. Davenport avoids having her fitness tested by playing short points.

Any opponent who can force Davenport to play long points can break down her fitness and expose it for the huge weakness in her game that it is.

vogus
May 12th, 2006, 01:22 AM
there are many different categories of fitness - the word has an extremely broad meaning as applied to tennis.

here is a basic (but far from comprehensive) breakdown:

1. ability to cover a lot of total distance on the court without getting tired (long term endurance).
2. having a body which is resistant to injury.
3. ability to perform in and withstand hot temperatures.
4. ability to get through long exhausting points (short term endurance).
5. ability to repeatedly strike offensive shots and provide pace (upper body fitness).
6. flexibility and efficient use of physical effort.
7. ability to remain fresh week-to-week and month-to-month from the physical grind of the tour.

Wannabeknowitall
May 12th, 2006, 01:23 AM
Tennis fitness is not really about total match length. It is about total number of balls struck and total distance run during the match. Davenport avoids having her fitness tested by playing short points.

Any opponent who can force Davenport to play long points can break down her fitness and expose it for the huge weakness in her game that it is.

That's still not accurate.
You think Dementieva has tennis fitness because she can rarely win a match in 2 sets?
She hits tons of balls and runs around for 3 sets but she does it mostly against players who she probably should beat in two sets.
If anything it shows a lack of mental toughness on her part and not tennis fitness.

It's correct that Lindsay isn't a quick player.
There's nothing she can do about it. She's lost basically a whole person compared to now and 13 years ago. She still doesn't move great.
She's a fit player though.
She still moves a lot in her matches.
She moves a lot forward instead of side-to-side.
She finishes off points quick but a plyer shouldn't be penalized for being an offensive player when it comes to tennis fitness.
That's her game and that's what she's comfortable with.
She's been a top 10 player longer than anyone on tour.

vogus
May 12th, 2006, 01:28 AM
That's still not accurate.
You think Dementieva has tennis fitness because she can rarely win a match in 2 sets?
She hits tons of balls and runs around for 3 sets but she does it mostly against players who she probably should beat in two sets.
If anything it shows a lack of mental toughness on her part and not tennis fitness.




yeah, players like Mauresmo and Capriati, who Lena beat 7-6 in the third in consecutive 3-hour marathons at the '04 USO.

Dementieva's tennis fitness is amazing. I'd say she and Kim are the two very best.

Wannabeknowitall
May 12th, 2006, 01:32 AM
yeah, players like Mauresmo and Capriati, who Lena beat 7-6 in the third in consecutive 3-hour marathons at the '04 USO.

Dementieva's tennis fitness is amazing. I'd say she and Kim are the two very best.

Only two matches you can think of?
Those were some very tight matches.
Those players were not even hitting half their ability in the third set.
They were that tight.
Dementieva really doesn't have much even according to you.
She does not withstand hot temperatures well.

vogus
May 12th, 2006, 01:35 AM
Only two matches you can think of?
Those were some very tight matches.
Those players were not even hitting half their ability in the third set.
They were that tight.
Dementieva really doesn't have much even according to you.
She does not withstand hot temperatures well.


The girls were playing their asses off in those matches, get the torrents and watch if you can't remember it. And the temps were in the 80s which is plenty hot.

vogus
May 12th, 2006, 01:40 AM
She moves a lot forward instead of side-to-side.




that's a great point, as the ability to move forward and back is a different type of fitness than moving side-to-side. A player who excels at both is Justine Henin.

switz
May 12th, 2006, 01:43 AM
Only two matches you can think of?
Those were some very tight matches.
Those players were not even hitting half their ability in the third set.
They were that tight.
Dementieva really doesn't have much even according to you.
She does not withstand hot temperatures well.

Dementieva is fit - the fact that she wilts in hot conditions has nothing to do with her fitness - she comes from and lives in Moscow - she simply does not play well in general when the conditions are hot - there are equally few examples where she has been in a huge lead and then collapsed because of the heat. The only one i would suggest was against Patty at the Aus Open but having been at the match i can tell you it was not that hot (lie 25 degrees) and she simply stepped off her game and Patty attacked. She beat Patty 6-1 in the third the week before in Sydney in 35 + temps.

Most of the matches she has lost in Australia have just been because has played horribly from the beginning as Elena can do.

vogus
May 12th, 2006, 01:51 AM
Nadia was barely able to deal with the heat at Charleston.




Nadya was playing her 10th singles match in 13 days, and also had played several doubles matches. Considering that, it was a phenomenal effort from her to win the Charlie final.

Under normal circumstances, i don't think Nadya would have had a big problem with the heat.

Wannabeknowitall
May 12th, 2006, 01:51 AM
Dementieva is fit - the fact that she wilts in hot conditions has nothing to do with her fitness - she comes from and lives in Moscow - she simply does not play well in general when the conditions are hot - there are equally few examples where she has been in a huge lead and then collapsed because of the heat. The only one i would suggest was against Patty at the Aus Open but having been at the match i can tell you it was not that hot (lie 25 degrees) and she simply stepped off her game and Patty attacked. She beat Patty 6-1 in the third the week before in Sydney in 35 + temps.

Most of the matches she has lost in Australia have just been because has played horribly from the beginning as Elena can do.

Different standards for different players.
So Dementieva gets an excused because she comes from and lives in Moscow, her genetics just can't deal with the heat.
Davenport doesn't but she has likely genetics that don't seem to give herself the best movement.
Interesting. :tape:

switz
May 12th, 2006, 02:29 AM
Different standards for different players.
So Dementieva gets an excused because she comes from and lives in Moscow, her genetics just can't deal with the heat.
Davenport doesn't but she has likely genetics that don't seem to give herself the best movement.
Interesting. :tape:

did i say Davenport was not fit :) I admire Davenport for getting into the shape she has and i've never said anything about her being out of shape.

In any event i'm talking fitness in hot conditions here - Lindsay growing up in southern California is obviously more comfortable with it than someone who grew up in Russia would be. You're using Dementieva's poor form in Australia to question her fitness - which just isn't a valid point when you actually look at the facts.

Jum_p_Over
May 12th, 2006, 02:38 AM
It doesn't really matter who your playing, dementieva has an amazing 3-set record and you certainly need fitness to achieve that