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Josh
May 11th, 2006, 10:45 PM
A woman of African origin and a young white child in her care have been shot dead in the Belgian city of Antwerp by a suspected right-wing extremist.

Earlier a woman of Turkish descent was shot and injured as she sat reading a book on a bench in the city centre.

Police later intercepted the man, and shot and wounded him in the stomach after he refused to put down his gun.

The government has strongly condemned the attacks, describing them as an extreme form of racism.

The 18-year old suspect is currently under guard in hospital.

A spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office said the youth had been armed with a high calibre weapon.

Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt called for calm.

"These horrible and cowardly crimes are a form of extreme racism," he said.

"We have to avoid our society being sucked into a spiral of violence. The police and the judicial system will do all that is needed for justice to be done."

The killings follow an attack last Saturday in the city of Bruges, in which a black Frenchman was left in a coma after being beaten up by a group of skinheads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4763655.stm

arn
May 11th, 2006, 11:00 PM
The last 3 weeks Belgium certainly didn't make the news in a positive way, far from :sad: 3 weeks went by and 3 brutal and very shocking events took place: The killing of a boy for his MP3-player, and 2 racist attacks. I always thought these were the kind of things that only happened in the USA (no offense to the Americans ;) ) or other countries. After the first murder I hoped this was a one-off, 'just' two guys with no morals at all, who don't consider the life of a human-being having more value than an MP3 player. But now the 2 events of last week :sad: :sad: :sad: I know there is racism in Belgium and I know the extreme-right party gets a lot of votes but untill now beating somebody almost to death and killing people on the street didn't happen (maybe I'm too naive here). I already hold my breath for next week :sad:

hablo
May 11th, 2006, 11:12 PM
I just read about this on lalibre.be...
this is quite sad!

Martian Jeza
May 11th, 2006, 11:39 PM
Hopefully we don't have such things in less big cities than Antwerpen, Brussels or cities like those... But those things have to be punished as hard as possible...

Rocketta
May 12th, 2006, 12:34 AM
terrible. :(

Cat's Pajamas
May 12th, 2006, 12:36 AM
ok im sorry but this is gonna sound stupid

which is which?

is right wing conservative and left wing liberal or vice versa?

No Name Face
May 12th, 2006, 03:39 AM
ok im sorry but this is gonna sound stupid

which is which?

is right wing conservative and left wing liberal or vice versa?


just think right for republican
and left for liberal

:yeah:

mandy7
May 12th, 2006, 06:28 AM
just think right for republican
and left for liberal

:yeah:

you don't no too much about euro politics, do ya?
nice try though

pla
May 12th, 2006, 07:36 AM
This is just extremly scary and horrible.

pla
May 12th, 2006, 07:38 AM
ok im sorry but this is gonna sound stupid

which is which?

is right wing conservative and left wing liberal or vice versa?

Both are right in Europe. But Conservatives are more on the right than liberals which are closer to the center.

mandy7
May 12th, 2006, 07:59 AM
if you ask me, 99% of all political parties are conservative as hell!! :mad:

galadriel
May 12th, 2006, 09:06 AM
:sad: :sad:

propi
May 12th, 2006, 09:16 AM
Wow this is wrong and scary... I always thought Belgium was a little-cute-peaceful country that I'd love to visit deeper (and still think/will do so).
I guess it's happening everywhere, some retarded/coward group of people who has always existed hidden to an extent have somehow managed to get a single brain for all the gang and might have come up with the conclusion that this and not politics is the way to get his goals. :fiery:

Strangelove
May 12th, 2006, 09:22 AM
Once again ashamed of my race.

When are we.....? You know, there really isn't any point in asking, because we never will learn. And we never will understand. Just sad.

Maryamator
May 12th, 2006, 09:25 AM
This is just extremly scary and horrible.
yeah:(

The Crow
May 12th, 2006, 09:43 AM
How it is possible that an 18-year old can buy a gun (legally apparently) is beyond me.

Justineladivine
May 12th, 2006, 09:44 AM
The last 3 weeks Belgium certainly didn't make the news in a positive way, far from :sad: 3 weeks went by and 3 brutal and very shocking events took place: The killing of a boy for his MP3-player, and 2 racist attacks. I always thought these were the kind of things that only happened in the USA (no offense to the Americans ;) ) or other countries. After the first murder I hoped this was a one-off, 'just' two guys with no morals at all, who don't consider the life of a human-being having more value than an MP3 player. But now the 2 events of last week :sad: :sad: :sad: I know there is racism in Belgium and I know the extreme-right party gets a lot of votes but untill now beating somebody almost to death and killing people on the street didn't happen (maybe I'm too naive here). I already hold my breath for next week :sad:

What really scares me is the 'epidemic effect' of such acts. I've always had a theory (right or wrong) that once a crazy mind breaks a social taboo and goes on a murderous rampage, other people will feel encouraged to follow suit or possibly do worse. So just like you I'm holding my breath for more horrors in the near future. Finally even though I hate politics, especially in Belgium, it's difficult to avoid political statements on this. If you consider how an overtly racist and xenophobic party (which had to change its name further to being found guilty of professing racist ideas) has taken the whole political class hostage in this country, being now considered as a 'potential ally' by some so-called moderate politicians, I'm not surprised we're now coming to this. Sure the said party will condemn this double murder and deny any responsibility for what happened. But the last two murderous assaults in Flanders have apparently involved skinheads. If I'm not mistaken don't people of this (hem) movement regularly serve as storm troopers for the same party in public demonstrations?
One last thing, following the murder in Brussels station, people of foreign descent have massively taken to the streets to condemn this brutal assassination and express their sympathy to the victim's family. Shouldn't citizens of long Belgian descent do the same now and organise a march against racism and xenophobia?

mandy7
May 12th, 2006, 09:45 AM
Once again ashamed of my race.
why? cause one fuckhead does something like this?
does that make our race evil? fuck no
it makes that guy a psycho
nothing you should be ashamed of

When are we.....? You know, there really isn't any point in asking, because we never will learn. And we never will understand. Just sad.
1% of the ppl in this world is just f-ed up
i'm afraid that'll never change

mandy7
May 12th, 2006, 09:46 AM
How it is possible that an 18-year old can buy a gun (legally apparently) is beyond me.

even if he would have been 36
it wouldn't be good

Justineladivine
May 12th, 2006, 09:54 AM
How it is possible that an 18-year old can buy a gun (legally apparently) is beyond me.

If I'm not mistaken you can do this if you regularly practise target shooting in an official club (after practising a given number of hours you become eligible to own a gun). But you're not allowed to carry it on you except to take it to your club and back.

James
May 12th, 2006, 10:31 AM
why? cause one fuckhead does something like this?
does that make our race evil? fuck no
it makes that guy a psycho
nothing you should be ashamed of


1% of the ppl in this world is just f-ed up
i'm afraid that'll never change

:worship:

mandy7
May 12th, 2006, 10:33 AM
thank you James

Strangelove
May 12th, 2006, 10:38 AM
why? cause one fuckhead does something like this?
does that make our race evil? fuck no
it makes that guy a psycho
nothing you should be ashamed ofI am terribly sorry, Mandy. My sincere appologies. I will never feel that way again. :rolleyes:

Can't help that I'm feeling that way. It's not like this is an isolated case. OK, maybe in gradation it's an isolated case, as in arbitrary murder (or any other kind, really) is pretty much the worst act any human being kan commit. But still, human beings are inherently flawed. Whether it be cheating, lying, waging war, being intolerant, or murdering.

And you are right, we will never understand.

fifiricci
May 12th, 2006, 11:06 AM
A woman of African origin and a young white child in her care have been shot dead in the Belgian city of Antwerp by a suspected right-wing extremist.

Earlier a woman of Turkish descent was shot and injured as she sat reading a book on a bench in the city centre.

Police later intercepted the man, and shot and wounded him in the stomach after he refused to put down his gun.

The government has strongly condemned the attacks, describing them as an extreme form of racism.

The 18-year old suspect is currently under guard in hospital.

A spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office said the youth had been armed with a high calibre weapon.

Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt called for calm.

"These horrible and cowardly crimes are a form of extreme racism," he said.

"We have to avoid our society being sucked into a spiral of violence. The police and the judicial system will do all that is needed for justice to be done."

The killings follow an attack last Saturday in the city of Bruges, in which a black Frenchman was left in a coma after being beaten up by a group of skinheads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4763655.stm

I'm glad that the Belgian PM has issued such a clear and unequivocal statement.

I feel this is essential, as right wing parties with racist policies seem to succeed in influencing the less free thinking sectors of white indigenous populations in a number of Western European countries.

The Crow
May 12th, 2006, 11:12 AM
even if he would have been 36
it wouldn't be good

Indeed. I just find it odd that someone who was underaged only some months ago can already legally buy a gun. Especially knowing his background. Doesn't anyone check these things before giving someone such a permit?? :confused:

Justineladivine
May 12th, 2006, 11:14 AM
I've just been watching Belgian news. First, a correction on my post above. The killer bought a shooting gun from a regular gunsmith. It turns out anybody can buy such a weapon after displaying an ID (what I described above apparently only applies to pistols and revolvers) as people are free to hunt game in Belgium. Laurette Onkelinx (Federal Minister of Justice) stated she was planning to amend the law to make it more difficult for people to buy shooting guns and rifles.
Finally, they said on TV that the killer is related to a Vlaams Belang federal MP (the woman, his aunt apparently, confirmed this to the press this morning. No comment.

The Crow
May 12th, 2006, 11:15 AM
If I'm not mistaken you can do this if you regularly practise target shooting in an official club (after practising a given number of hours you become eligible to own a gun). But you're not allowed to carry it on you except to take it to your club and back.

Thanks. Can an underaged person practice in a club?

pla
May 12th, 2006, 11:17 AM
I'm glad that the Belgian PM has issued such a clear and unequivocal statement.

I feel this is essential, as right wing parties with racist policies seem to succeed in influencing the less free thinking sectors of white indigenous populations in a number of Western European countries.

Not only Western European sadly :( it's all over Europe

This is like a plague. And the more politians get into the securitary discussuions, the more crimes like this will come. These days, it's becoming normal to have a discriminatory or even racist discourses :o

The Crow
May 12th, 2006, 11:17 AM
So you don't even need a permit at the moment to buy such a gun? You gotta be kidding me??

Justineladivine
May 12th, 2006, 11:22 AM
So you don't even need a permit at the moment to buy such a gun? You gotta be kidding me??

Unfortunately, that's the way it is. Question: why did they have to wait for such a tragedy to contemplate amending the law?

nicky
May 12th, 2006, 11:50 AM
Unfortunately, that's the way it is. Question: why did they have to wait for such a tragedy to contemplate amending the law?
There already is a new gun-law under construction. Unfortunately, it hadn't passed parliament yet. But this tragedy will make sure it gets a speedy treatment now...

However, from what I heard, even under the new law this guy would have been able to buy that type of gun :scared: That's why the Justice minister said she wanted to amend this proposition.

Come-on-kim
May 12th, 2006, 11:56 AM
It's frightening... what is gonna happen next?

I am really afraid of the next elections we'll have... The extreme right parties are going to have the power in some cities...

Justineladivine
May 12th, 2006, 11:59 AM
It's frightening... what is gonna happen next?

I am really afraid of the next elections we'll have... The extreme right parties are going to have the power in some cities...

Unless this kind of tragedy serves as a wakeup call. Fortunately voting is compulsory in Belgium

-Ph51-
May 12th, 2006, 11:59 AM
It's frightening... what is gonna happen next?

I am really afraid of the next elections we'll have... The extreme right parties are going to have the power in some cities...
What happened isn't exactly propaganda for them ;)

mandy7
May 12th, 2006, 12:01 PM
I am terribly sorry, Mandy. My sincere appologies. I will never feel that way again. :rolleyes:

dude, don't give me sarasm

Can't help that I'm feeling that way. It's not like this is an isolated case. OK, maybe in gradation it's an isolated case, as in arbitrary murder (or any other kind, really) is pretty much the worst act any human being kan commit. But still, human beings are inherently flawed. Whether it be cheating, lying, waging war, being intolerant, or murdering.

And you are right, we will never understand.

in every race there are rotten apples
doesn't mean everybody should feel bad whenever someone of their race does something retarded
that would be silly and useless

-Ph51-
May 12th, 2006, 12:02 PM
dude, don't give me sarasm



in every race there are rotten apples
doesn't mean everybody should feel bad whenever someone of their race does something retarded
that would be silly and useless
:worship:

Come-on-kim
May 12th, 2006, 12:04 PM
What happened isn't exactly propaganda for them ;)
No it's not, but it shows that the ones who vote for them are becoming even more radical... and with the "Joe-affair" some people are saying "look it was strangers again...", so I am afraid some people might vote for FN/VB on that purpose.

Justineladivine
May 12th, 2006, 12:18 PM
No it's not, but it shows that the ones who vote for them are becoming even more radical... and with the "Joe-affair" some people are saying "look it was strangers again...", so I am afraid some people might vote for FN/VB on that purpose.

I wouldn't worry about the FN now, given the trouble their leader is in right now. Anyway it has never scored as highly as the VB. For Pete's sake look at their votes in Antwerp. Even in Brussels they could some day paralyse the region and to make it worse they can count on quite a few French speakers in their Brussels scores. Man, that really takes the cake. Talk about paradoxes and voting irrationally...

Lord Nelson
May 12th, 2006, 12:30 PM
I'm glad that the Belgian PM has issued such a clear and unequivocal statement.

I feel this is essential, as right wing parties with racist policies seem to succeed in influencing the less free thinking sectors of white indigenous populations in a number of Western European countries.
The racist parties are not succeeding. None of them are in power.

pla
May 12th, 2006, 12:39 PM
The racist parties are not succeeding. None of them are in power.

As soon as they got to power, it's finished for them for a long time. They suceed by changing the politics of the other parties and turning the whole society in what they want.

Take a look at Sarkozi in neighbouring France and his politics and you'll know what I mean.

Lord Nelson
May 12th, 2006, 12:48 PM
As soon as they got to power, it's finished for them for a long time. They suceed by changing the politics of the other parties and turning the whole society in what they want.

Take a look at Sarkozi in neighbouring France and his politics and you'll know what I mean.
UMP and sarkozy are not racists. Don't go that line buddy. In the U.S., Joe MCarthy labeled everyone on the left, communists. By labeling politicians on the right racist you don't seem to be any different. There is a difference between Le Pen (from extreme right) and Sarko. Also Sarko is for affirmative action which does not exist in France. He is also for 'immigration choisi'. People from the south can immigrate to France but only based on their skills which is normal. Many nations habve these policies.
So you should be able to distinguish extreme right from right just as you should distinguish extreme left (just as bad as extreme right) from left.

Hagar
May 12th, 2006, 12:58 PM
Finally, they said on TV that the killer is related to a Vlaams Belang federal MP (the woman, his aunt apparently, confirmed this to the press this morning.

The fact that someone's aunt happens to be a member of an extreme right party does not necessarily make him a racist. The fact that your aunt killed someone does not make you a killer...

My take on this? I would not be too fast to put the label racist on this murder.
We do not have a very racist society in Belgium, definitely nothing compared with the racism in the USA at some time.

My diagnosis? We have a society which is currently uncoherent and unstable for the following reasons:
- society has been destabilized by massive immigration from people with a culture that is different from the mainstream Belgian culture. That always creates problems. Same thing is happening in the USA with the Hispanics.
- whereas society was permeated by catholic values and norms until the 60'ies, it is now in a transitional period where new non-religious values are established.
- as a consequence ideological attitudes changed completely on subjects like abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, marriage, children,...
- changes in economic structure because of globalisation

None of these phenomenons are bad as as such, but all combined have resulted in a society which is very confused. It is no longer clear for people how to manage their relationships and the education of their kids. And some of these kids lose it and then you get a situation like this killing.
I don't think we have a problem of racist violence. Racism is just a pretext. A white guy will label his killing as racist, an extreme muslim youngster will label it as religious. In the end it is the same: meaningless violence by MALE YOUNGSTERS!!! But is that really surprising seen the enormous doses of violence people take in via the media (movies, TV, computer games).
Youngsters are vulnerable, and male youngsters even more (hormonal changes, difficulties with selfcontrol). They need mature adults, role models, father figures but they don't get them because their parents themselves are confused and unsure.

It is true that we have lived through a month of meaningless and extreme violence in Belgium. Still, I have heard very few people bring forward a correct diagnosis. I have heard a lot of shallow sentimentality but no solutions.
People march in the street "against violence". This is their way of exorcizing violence and putting it outside of themselves but violence is often in the same people that say "I am against violence".

It always about the same thing: to what extent do you respect others and yourself, to what extent do you realize that your freedom ends where the freedom of another starts.
I hear and see people fulminate against racism and violence but they have no problem bashing fellow posters. I also know people who dump garbage where they shouldn't but they are ready to hit someone if a remark is made. Or people who have no problem to rent out a shitty apartment for an unreasonable price. Or people who try not to pay their taxes. All this is also violent and asocial behaviour for me.

Calvin
May 12th, 2006, 01:30 PM
The fact that someone's aunt happens to be a member of an extreme right party does not necessarily make him a racist. The fact that your aunt killed someone does not make you a killer...


Nobody claims that the aunt is a killer.
The fact that both his aunt and father are members of a certain political party certainly explains the environment in which this kid grew up in. It is an environment that thrives on hate. Similarly, it is easily understandable how radical Muslim families could spawn suicide bombers.


My take on this? I would not be too fast to put the label racist on this murder.
We do not have a very racist society in Belgium, definitely nothing compared with the racism in the USA at some time.


:tape: Belgian society is very racist. Just look at the number of followers a certain party has, even though it has been condemned for racism by a court of law!

pla
May 12th, 2006, 01:32 PM
UMP and sarkozy are not racists. Don't go that line buddy. In the U.S., Joe MCarthy labeled everyone on the left, communists. By labeling politicians on the right racist you don't seem to be any different. There is a difference between Le Pen (from extreme right) and Sarko. Also Sarko is for affirmative action which does not exist in France. He is also for 'immigration choisi'. People from the south can immigrate to France but only based on their skills which is normal. Many nations habve these policies.
So you should be able to distinguish extreme right from right just as you should distinguish extreme left (just as bad as extreme right) from left.

UMP is not Sarkozi, although he's the leader now and he TALKS shit close to the racist. In fact, he's talking more exptream stuff than LePen right now and it's Lepen who's seen as the devil. Ironic..

Some of the old-guard from the Communist party in France were the same.

Sarkozi's politics are only about getting him to the President's place and he's playing with the farest wing of the right voter. He said it himself couple of weeks back, he wants to take voters from FN.

So what's the diffrence again? Lepen's saing exactly the same as Sarkozi, except that he was saying it for decades now and people choose "the original". (the only difference is that the FN leader wants France out of the EU but that's quite normal given the ideas he defends).

mandy7
May 12th, 2006, 01:34 PM
i hate people who write long ass stories that either say nothing at all or are just basically full of shit

furrykitten
May 12th, 2006, 01:42 PM
Terrible

mandy7
May 12th, 2006, 01:44 PM
Speak for yourself. i am more interested with what Hagar says than what you say.

Didn't i say 'I hate...' ?
So i was speaking for myself. :hatoff:

Lord Nelson
May 12th, 2006, 02:03 PM
UMP is not Sarkozi, although he's the leader now and he TALKS shit close to the racist. In fact, he's talking more exptream stuff than LePen right now and it's Lepen who's seen as the devil. Ironic..

Some of the old-guard from the Communist party in France were the same.

Sarkozi's politics are only about getting him to the President's place and he's playing with the farest wing of the right voter. He said it himself couple of weeks back, he wants to take voters from FN.

So what's the diffrence again? Lepen's saing exactly the same as Sarkozi, except that he was saying it for decades now and people choose "the original". (the only difference is that the FN leader wants France out of the EU but that's quite normal given the ideas he defends).
with what happened in clichy sous bois and other regions I don't blame him. Actually him and Philippe de Villiers are my favourite politicians in France. I hate Le pen though because he is racist and anti semitic. I love Judaism and though am against islamism not Muslims themselves. I hope sarko wins because he is (just like Segolene) a supporter of free market reforms. Segolene had kind words for Blair and his economic policies so she can't be that bad. :D

Come-on-kim
May 12th, 2006, 02:05 PM
I wouldn't worry about the FN now, given the trouble their leader is in right now. Anyway it has never scored as highly as the VB. For Pete's sake look at their votes in Antwerp. Even in Brussels they could some day paralyse the region and to make it worse they can count on quite a few French speakers in their Brussels scores. Man, that really takes the cake. Talk about paradoxes and voting irrationally...
Well in Charleroi FN could make some damages....

Josh
May 12th, 2006, 02:12 PM
The guy has just confessed that his aim was to kill as many people of foreign origin as possible. He said he did so because of "certain" things that happened during his youth. It was not revealed what those things were.

The African woman that was killed was pregnant... :(

nicky
May 12th, 2006, 02:21 PM
My take on this? I would not be too fast to put the label racist on this murder.


Well, your take is wrong. The guy already told the police it was racist: he specifically aimed for colored people.

Oh, and I can agree partly with your sociological analysis. Unfortunately, in view of your posts in the last couple of weeks, I'm convinced you wouldn't have written it if the killer was a religious muslim - so that takes away a lot of its merit...:shrug:

Hagar
May 12th, 2006, 02:38 PM
Unfortunately, in view of your posts in the last couple of weeks, I'm convinced you wouldn't have written it if the killer was a religious muslim - so that takes away a lot of its merit...:shrug:

So you are telling me my current post loses its merit because of something I would have written would something else have happened (which did not happen). :confused:
I thing this is pure projection from your side.

fifiricci
May 12th, 2006, 02:44 PM
My take on this? I would not be too fast to put the label racist on this murder.
.

I bet you wouldn't.

But you were faster than the speed of light in designating the "MP3 murder" as a bloodfest committed by "North African muslims" when that was not in fact the case at all. So its okay for you to stick labels on .................. :lol:

The Crow
May 12th, 2006, 02:49 PM
Hagar, so now all of a sudden, it's no longer male muslim youngsters but just male youngsters? What's next? Only males? Only youngsters? Only humans? :tape:

And saying that this has nothing to do with racism is laughable at least. (But I've learned that you are quick to judge in some occasions and resilient to judge in other cases) About the fact that Belgium is according to you not a very racist society... Well when I hear some (quite ordinary) people speak about muslims/black people/... nowadays, I very much have my doubts....

Hagar
May 12th, 2006, 02:51 PM
Hagar, so now all of a sudden, it's no longer male muslim youngsters but just male youngsters? What's next? Only males? Only youngsters? Only humans? :tape:

Crow, I am sure you will always find a way to interprete what I write in such a way that you can blame me for being biased so I am really not going to defend myself here. :p

nicky
May 12th, 2006, 02:52 PM
So you are telling me my current post loses its merit because of something I would have written would something else have happened (which did not happen). :confused:
I thing this is pure projection from your side.

Yes I do. If you say black all the time, you're not very credible if you suddenly say white, just because it suits you better...
I don't even have to project, I just have to recall your posts regarding the MP3-murder.

Oh and by the way, I'm quite old, wise & educated enough to form my own opinion - I don't have to follow anybody's lead :shrug: And I definitely do not need to bad rep people just because I disagree with them.

Hagar
May 12th, 2006, 02:53 PM
I bet you wouldn't.

But you were faster than the speed of light in designating the "MP3 murder" as a bloodfest committed by "North African muslims" when that was not in fact the case at all. So its okay for you to stick labels on .................. :lol:

Oh, this thread is again turning into a "Hagar is a racist" thread? Surprise, surprise. :devil:

fifiricci
May 12th, 2006, 03:01 PM
Oh, this thread is again turning into a "Hagar is a racist" thread?

Aww :awww: but actually, no! :D

This time around it looks much more to me like a "Hagar is a sad and desperate hypocrite" thread :devil:

Yasmine
May 12th, 2006, 03:02 PM
some needs to give a right definition of what racism means everybod please, because apparently some people don't know what it means (or are happy with a definition of their own :devil: )

nicky
May 12th, 2006, 03:13 PM
To get this thread back on track:

One last thing, following the murder in Brussels station, people of foreign descent have massively taken to the streets to condemn this brutal assassination and express their sympathy to the victim's family. Shouldn't citizens of long Belgian descent do the same now and organise a march against racism and xenophobia?

A march will be organized in Antwerp on May 26th I believe. I don't know if it will be explicitely against racism and xenophobia, or just against violence in general. Whichever way, I can only hope as many people as possible show up.

Yasmine
May 12th, 2006, 03:17 PM
Aww :awww: but actually, no! :D

This time around it looks much more to me like a "Hagar is a sad and desperate hypocrite" thread :devil:
no need to open a special thread for that;) it's just a question of reading posts... nothing else.

*JR*
May 12th, 2006, 09:19 PM
Last Updated: Friday, 12 May 2006, 14:56 GMT (BBC)

A Belgian teenager accused of killing two people in a race attack in Antwerp has far-right family links, police say.

Hans van Themsche shot a pregnant black nanny from Mali and a two-year-old white girl in her care, before himself being shot and injured by police.

Mr Van Themsche, 18, also shot and injured a woman of Turkish descent.

"He obviously was in search of people of foreign origin to shoot them down. That's what he declared himself," a public prosecution spokeswoman said.

The spokeswoman, Dominique Reyniers, added that the suspect was questioned on Friday and was due to appear in court after his recovery in hospital.

Far-right fears highlighted

Police say Mr Van Themsche's father helped found the now defunct anti-immigration party Vlaams Blok, and his aunt is an MP for its successor, Vlaams Belang.

Vlaams Belang won regional elections in Flanders in 2004, but has been kept out of government by a coalition of all the other parties in the Flemish assembly.

The Belgian government has strongly condemned the shootings, describing them as an extreme form of racism.

Hundreds of people marched in Antwerp on Friday to condemn the attacks.

Calls for calm

The shooting spree began on Thursday, after Mr Van Themsche bought a hunting rifle in a shop in Antwerp.

He walked to the city centre and shot the woman of Turkish descent in the chest, as she sat reading a book on a bench.

The woman was badly injured but survived the attack.

The teenager than shot two more people - the pregnant woman from Mali and the white toddler in her care - killing them both.

Police later intercepted Mr Van Themsche, and shot and wounded him in the stomach after he refused to put down his gun.

Mr Van Themsche - an agricultural college student - was reportedly asked to leave boarding school just days earlier for smoking. He also reportedly left a farewell letter.

Following the shootings, Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt called for calm.

"We have to avoid our society being sucked into a spiral of violence," he said. "The police and the judicial system will do all that is needed for justice to be done."

The killings follow an attack last Saturday in the city of Bruges, in which a black Frenchman was left in a coma after being beaten up by a group of skinheads.

hablo
May 12th, 2006, 10:10 PM
"He obviously was in search of people of foreign origin to shoot them down. That's what he declared himself," a public prosecution spokeswoman said.

so much for Hagar's take on this :tape:

My take on this? I would not be too fast to put the label racist on this murder. :rolleyes:

Kart
May 12th, 2006, 11:17 PM
We do not have a very racist society in Belgium, definitely nothing compared with the racism in the USA at some time.


Well it appears that you still have a problem to deal with.

Ultimaltely all this incident shows to me is that people are the same wherever you go.

There's no escape.

Black Mamba.
May 12th, 2006, 11:21 PM
This proves once again that racism and intolerance has no borders or boundaries because the minute we think it does, it occurs in place we thought it never could.

Hagar
May 13th, 2006, 12:01 PM
But you were faster than the speed of light in designating the "MP3 murder" as a bloodfest committed by "North African muslims" when that was not in fact the case at all. So its okay for you to stick labels on .................. :lol:

What you are saying here is absolute rubbish. It is not true. I never said nor thought that the mp3-murder had racist motives. I have simply said that our open Western European societies attract people who refuse to live by our norms and standards. The fact that in the end the mp3-murder was committed by gypsies coming from Poland and not by North Africans does not change anything to that analysis.


Anyway, when watching the news yesterday I realized all of a sudden how the media and some politicians have decided to interpret this murder: it is a racist one and that has everything to do with the connections of the killer’s family with extreme right. So some will of course try to ban the extreme right party. It is a dream occasion for the leftist politically correct bunch. These morons are holding the extreme right party responsible for this murder. The extreme right party refuses to do that and they are absolutely right! They did not kill these people, the killer did.

I know also one thing: if the extreme right party will be banned in one or the other way, there will be a revolution…

For me this murder is not racist whatever the killer himself says. I think the killer is psychologically deranged, was suffering from paranoia and directed it towards foreigners. People suffering from a paranoiac psychosis always direct their paranoia towards someone. The son of a colleague of mine has this problem – very sad story BTW - and in his case he directs it at the neighbours; he thinks they are filming him with a camera.



For me the irony of the whole thing is that the mp3-murder is considered as an isolated incident whereas this killing is considered as symptomatic for the racism that allegedly rules in our society.

I think it is the opposite. The mp3-murder is symptomatic for the fact that in Western European countries, it should be checked better who crosses the national borders. And the killing in Antwerp is an isolated act of a deranged person.

One thing is in any case clear: stupicty and sentimentalism rule in our society.

Elske
May 13th, 2006, 12:16 PM
It is a dream occasion for the leftist politically correct bunch. These morons are holding the extreme right party responsible for this murder. The extreme right party refuses to do that and they are absolutely right! They did not kill these people, the killer did.


BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP Wrong! :wavey:

hablo
May 13th, 2006, 12:36 PM
For me this murder is not racist whatever the killer himself says. I think the killer is psychologically deranged, was suffering from paranoia and directed it towards foreigners. People suffering from a paranoiac psychosis always direct their paranoia towards someone. The son of a colleague of mine has this problem – very sad story BTW - and in his case he directs it at the neighbours; he thinks they are filming him with a camera.



You're in denial, plain and simple. :tape:

Justineladivine
May 13th, 2006, 01:01 PM
Hagar, let me try to explain the way I feel to you. Back in the 40s Hitler had no problem finding trigger-happy assassins to shoot hundreds of thousands of Jews and Slavs in Russia and then other perpetrators to gas millions of them in Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, etc because they'd been brainwashed for years into believing Jews and Slavs were nothing more than lice. One of the main perpetrators of the shoah, SS general von den Bach-Zalewski testified at Nürenberg: "When you've been drumming such awful notions into people's heads for years, such giant-scale massacres are inevitable."
The point is the boy grew up in a political environment in which such ideas are commonplace and yes... his family and the ideas they stand for have obviously had an influence on what was probably - I'll grant you that - a feeble-minded person. Now, I strongly believe in freedom of speech and I'll never blame you for expressing ideas that cut against the grain of most people on this board. I'd just like you to admit I had a point mentioning his background.

Solitaire
May 13th, 2006, 01:08 PM
This proves once again that racism and intolerance has no borders or boundaries because the minute we think it does, it occurs in place we thought it never could.


Agreed. I spent half my childhood in Europe and I saw more acts of Racism there than I did in the US. It boggles the mind when people say "I can't believe it happened here". :o

flyingmachine
May 13th, 2006, 01:22 PM
This is terrible! :mad: No one should die just because they have a different skin colour or ethic groups. :fiery:
Anyway in the past I thought Hager only has problems with Muslims but now it seems he is a race problem too. :rolleyes:

The Crow
May 13th, 2006, 01:43 PM
What you are saying here is absolute rubbish. It is not true. I never said nor thought that the mp3-murder had racist motives. I have simply said that our open Western European societies attract people who refuse to live by our norms and standards. The fact that in the end the mp3-murder was committed by gypsies coming from Poland and not by North Africans does not change anything to that analysis.

I'm pretty sure that killing another person to steal his mp3 player is a crime everywhere, whether in Morocco, Belgium or Poland. I don't see what 'our norms and standards' come into play...


Anyway, when watching the news yesterday I realized all of a sudden how the media and some politicians have decided to interpret this murder: it is a racist one and that has everything to do with the connections of the killer’s family with extreme right. So some will of course try to ban the extreme right party. It is a dream occasion for the leftist politically correct bunch. These morons are holding the extreme right party responsible for this murder. The extreme right party refuses to do that and they are absolutely right! They did not kill these people, the killer did.

If you can't see that propaganda can influence people, you haven't learned anything from the second world war. Is the extreme right responsible for this murder. Not directly. Should they ask themselves wether they have some responsibility? Yes. will they? Of course not. Without their biased take on foreigners/muslims/... they are nothing.


I know also one thing: if the extreme right party will be banned in one or the other way, there will be a revolution…

lol


For me this murder is not racist whatever the killer himself says. I think the killer is psychologically deranged, was suffering from paranoia and directed it towards foreigners. People suffering from a paranoiac psychosis always direct their paranoia towards someone. The son of a colleague of mine has this problem – very sad story BTW - and in his case he directs it at the neighbours; he thinks they are filming him with a camera.


And you know this how? You do the same thing as those leftist politically correct bunch (as you call them). You just spin this around so it suits your ideas.


For me the irony of the whole thing is that the mp3-murder is considered as an isolated incident whereas this killing is considered as symptomatic for the racism that allegedly rules in our society.


And again you do the exact opposite because it suits your ideas. And I didn't have the impression that people saw the mp3-murder as an isolated incident. Weren't the muslims supposed to condemn that murder according to a lot of people?


I think it is the opposite. The mp3-murder is symptomatic for the fact that in Western European countries, it should be checked better who crosses the national borders. And the killing in Antwerp is an isolated act of a deranged person.


See...


One thing is in any case clear: stupicty and sentimentalism rule in our society.


That's the only decent thing you said. And you yourself are no exception.

fifiricci
May 13th, 2006, 01:50 PM
Excuse my stupidity (I have it in spoons apparently), but what exactly is "stupicty"? ;)

-Ph51-
May 13th, 2006, 01:58 PM
Excuse my stupidity (I have it in spoons apparently), but what exactly is "stupicty"? ;)
Glasses...remember...glasses :p

Yasmine
May 13th, 2006, 02:00 PM
Hagar, let me try to explain the way I feel to you. Back in the 40s Hitler had no problem finding trigger-happy assassins to shoot hundreds of thousands of Jews and Slavs in Russia and then other perpetrators to gas millions of them in Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, etc because they'd been brainwashed for years into believing Jews and Slavs were nothing more than lice. One of the main perpetrators of the shoah, general SS von den Bach-Zalewski testified at Nürenberg: "When you've been drumming such awful notions into people's heads for years, such giant-scale massacres are inevitable."
The point is the boy grew up in a political environment in which such ideas are commonplace and yes... his family and the ideas they stand for have obviously had an influence on what was probably - I'll grant you that - a feeble-minded person. Now, I strongly believe in freedom of speech and I'll never blame you for expression ideas that cut against the grain of most people on this board. I'd just like you to admit I had a point mentioning his background.
you are just so patient, don't waste your time;)

James
May 13th, 2006, 02:12 PM
The fact that someone's aunt happens to be a member of an extreme right party does not necessarily make him a racist. The fact that your aunt killed someone does not make you a killer...

My take on this? I would not be too fast to put the label racist on this murder.
We do not have a very racist society in Belgium, definitely nothing compared with the racism in the USA at some time.

My diagnosis? We have a society which is currently uncoherent and unstable for the following reasons:
- society has been destabilized by massive immigration from people with a culture that is different from the mainstream Belgian culture. That always creates problems. Same thing is happening in the USA with the Hispanics.
- whereas society was permeated by catholic values and norms until the 60'ies, it is now in a transitional period where new non-religious values are established.
- as a consequence ideological attitudes changed completely on subjects like abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, marriage, children,...
- changes in economic structure because of globalisation

None of these phenomenons are bad as as such, but all combined have resulted in a society which is very confused. It is no longer clear for people how to manage their relationships and the education of their kids. And some of these kids lose it and then you get a situation like this killing.
I don't think we have a problem of racist violence. Racism is just a pretext. A white guy will label his killing as racist, an extreme muslim youngster will label it as religious. In the end it is the same: meaningless violence by MALE YOUNGSTERS!!! But is that really surprising seen the enormous doses of violence people take in via the media (movies, TV, computer games).
Youngsters are vulnerable, and male youngsters even more (hormonal changes, difficulties with selfcontrol). They need mature adults, role models, father figures but they don't get them because their parents themselves are confused and unsure.

It is true that we have lived through a month of meaningless and extreme violence in Belgium. Still, I have heard very few people bring forward a correct diagnosis. I have heard a lot of shallow sentimentality but no solutions.
People march in the street "against violence". This is their way of exorcizing violence and putting it outside of themselves but violence is often in the same people that say "I am against violence".

It always about the same thing: to what extent do you respect others and yourself, to what extent do you realize that your freedom ends where the freedom of another starts.
I hear and see people fulminate against racism and violence but they have no problem bashing fellow posters. I also know people who dump garbage where they shouldn't but they are ready to hit someone if a remark is made. Or people who have no problem to rent out a shitty apartment for an unreasonable price. Or people who try not to pay their taxes. All this is also violent and asocial behaviour for me.

Your double standards never seize to amaze me. When it was possibly a person from North-African descent committing the MP3 murder, you were right there condeming the entire community. Now that it is a white murderer with racial motives (to which he even confessed himself), you are right there to tone it down and treat it as an isolated case. Of course the killer here is in the wrong and we don't have to blame his environment, but why does the same never apply for you when the perpretator is of North-African descent or any other kind of immigrant.

Mightymirza
May 13th, 2006, 02:16 PM
Wow..This is terrible.. I am glad I chose to come to USA instead of Europe...Everything here is soo mixed...

Ceze
May 13th, 2006, 02:24 PM
it's such a good feeling to bad rep racist people :drool:

Yasmine
May 13th, 2006, 02:27 PM
it's such a good feeling to bad rep racist people :drool:
gosh you know what will happen now? some people not only give you bad reps when they're called racist, but on top of it get you reported to admins :devil: get ready to get a trial now! :lol:

Lord Nelson
May 13th, 2006, 02:29 PM
Your double standards never seize to amaze me. When it was possibly a person from North-African descent committing the MP3 murder, you were right there condeming the entire community.
Well it was gipsies who committed the crime. They are Polish citizens yes but they are gipsies, of whom many are known to steal. So unfortunately for you this will not break the stereotype of Muslims being high in crime sicne the stereotype of the gipsies has been maintained by this.

Ceze
May 13th, 2006, 02:30 PM
gosh you know what will happen now? some people not only give you bad reps when they're called racist, but on top of it get you reported to admins :devil: get ready to get a trial now! :lol:did I mention a name in my post? :angel:

James
May 13th, 2006, 02:30 PM
Well it was gipsies who committed the crime. They are Polish citizens yes but they are gipsies, of whom many are known to steal. So the stereotype of Gypsies and Muslims high in crime has unfortunately not been broken.

But it does not mean every gypsy or muslim will be a criminal.

Yasmine
May 13th, 2006, 02:31 PM
did I mention a name in my post? :angel:
I know you too well to know who it was :devil: and therefore I confirmed what will happen :lol:

Yasmine
May 13th, 2006, 02:34 PM
But it does not mean every gypsy or muslim will be a criminal.
exactly;) that's the whole problem, a criminal has no excuse and has to be punished regardless where he's from or his skin colour. I actually hate that word race, we're all put in such categories meaning people obviously make assumptions have clichés and preconceived ideas... And people are so easy at generalisations without making the effort to be critical...

Ceze
May 13th, 2006, 02:35 PM
I know you too well to know who it was :devil: and therefore I confirmed what will happen :lol:I really don't care :)

Yasmine
May 13th, 2006, 02:36 PM
I really don't care :)
I know you don't but sarcasm is good against some morons sometimes;)

Lord Nelson
May 13th, 2006, 02:37 PM
But it does not mean every gypsy or muslim will be a criminal.
No but statistically speaking, a lot of Gipsies and Muslims in Europe are into crime and poverty compared with others.

Yasmine
May 13th, 2006, 02:42 PM
No but statistically speaking, a lot of Gipsies and Muslims in Europe are into crime and poverty compared with others.
that's true but that's not the point, does that mean 100% of gipsies or muslims are criminals?

James
May 13th, 2006, 02:46 PM
No but statistically speaking, a lot of Gipsies and Muslims in Europe are into crime and poverty compared with others.

The combination of crime and poverty provides much of a vicious circle there.

Lord Nelson
May 13th, 2006, 03:06 PM
No I never said tha all gipsies or Muslims are into crime. majority of them are not of course. I just said poverty is more deeply entrenched with these groups then with other groups. Hate to go with this but polygamy, having more children then needed etc... does not help. Again, not all Muslims or African Christians are into this. But many of them are. In U.S. that too is a problem with Mormons. this Tom Green chap had like 30 kids. But that is peanuts compared to people like in Saudi Arabia. I heard that his excellency Saud, son of his royal highness Ibn Saud, founder of Saudi Arabia had over 100 kids. That is a fantasm of mine but yeah it just remains that, having many kids with various women. The funny thing is I look a bit like Saud in his photo in wikipedia. See link below. So maybe I have hope :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saud_of_Saudi_Arabia

new-york
May 13th, 2006, 03:11 PM
No but statistically speaking, a lot of Gipsies and Muslims in Europe are into crime and poverty compared with others.

A lot of Gipsies & Muslims in Europe are fighting against some discriminations also. I'm not telling that there's no bad Muslims, Gipsies or whatever. But the fact that some of the most stigmatised communities find members of them taking the criminal way is not meaningless.

it's not simple as sayin that those one are really not educated & all or those politc people are way too racist.

i think the questions of integration, poverty, have to be constantly re-evaluated. it's a mix of two violent behaviour. one obvious, like when you hit, kill, rob , people's social bad acts..etc...but the society violence is kinda even more violent, even if kinda implicitly as it throws a message of integration but the system is build in a way that make differences a problem. you can't tell, ok, we're open, we accept you, just take our way of life. you can't throw people in some parts of the city because their names sounds "exotic". same for jobs, for a lot of things. people are under a violence that sometimes we don't even see because our official standarts in which i believe we believe like peace, brotherhood & in which we believe in (i hope) are just not applicated that well.

we have to question ourselves on how far go our acceptance of the OTHER. even when we don't necessary personally valid that difference, even when we feel like it would be easier for us if it was the same people in the same place, even if those differences trouble a lil our mental comfort. of course, the work will have to be done by every sides. that necessary compromise to build the whole together.

i don't. that's so complicated. just, we have to look at the whole.

Allez-H
May 13th, 2006, 07:46 PM
Aww, y'all ganging up on poor Hagar again :lol:


I'd like to say my mind on this but since 'some poster' told me our kind of people don't talk but bark, I'll just keep shut :tape:

fifiricci
May 13th, 2006, 10:59 PM
Aww, y'all ganging up on poor Hagar again :lol:


I'd like to say my mind on this but since 'some poster' told me our kind of people don't talk but bark, I'll just keep shut :tape:

Oh don't let that stop you, many of us have received the "barking" PM from "Aargh" :lol: ;)

Ceze
May 13th, 2006, 11:04 PM
Oh don't let that stop you, many of us have received the "barking" PM from "Aargh" :lol: ;)what's that? :confused:

fifiricci
May 13th, 2006, 11:07 PM
what's that? :confused:

Its a private joke ;) I'll PM you.

Yasmine
May 13th, 2006, 11:26 PM
Its a private joke ;) I'll PM you.
fifi you're letting the whole board know about that :lol: :haha: Cyrille you're probably smart enough to find it out though;)

fifiricci
May 13th, 2006, 11:41 PM
fifi you're letting the whole board know about that :lol: :haha: Cyrille you're probably smart enough to find it out though;)

Ooh, Yas, stop that barking will you! It makes me go "aargh"!

woof woof!

:devil:

Yasmine
May 13th, 2006, 11:45 PM
Ooh, Yas, stop that barking will you! It makes me go "aargh"!

woof woof!

:devil:
:lol: well it's Cyrille we're talking about here, so I'm actually surprised I hadn't told him already:devil:

James
May 14th, 2006, 10:15 AM
These last few posts confuse me a great deal. :lol:

Yasmine
May 14th, 2006, 10:26 AM
These last few posts confuse me a great deal. :lol:
:kiss: read your PMs Ed ;)

-Ph51-
May 14th, 2006, 10:37 AM
Ladies...this is supposed to be a very serious thread. Don't derail it. :tape: :lol: :bolt:

Yasmine
May 14th, 2006, 10:49 AM
I think it's good to actually have a laugh even on such a serious matter;) otherwise we would be depressed damn easily just by listening to the news.

EDIT: it doesn't take any of the fact that it's a serious subject obviously and should seriously be handled;)

Hagar
May 14th, 2006, 10:50 AM
Aww :awww: but actually, no! :D

This time around it looks much more to me like a "Hagar is a sad and desperate hypocrite" thread :devil:

Well, some spoke of intolerance here. This post is the best example of intolerance I have seen in this topic.

And our politically correct administrators do even refuse to delete it... So let me just give it some more attention by bumping it up.

-Ph51-
May 14th, 2006, 10:51 AM
I think it's good to actually have a laugh even on such a serious matter;) otherwise we would be depressed damn easily just by listening to the news.
I am depressed :sad:

Hagar
May 14th, 2006, 10:54 AM
fifi you're letting the whole board know about that :lol: :haha: Cyrille you're probably smart enough to find it out though;)

Well, as a matter of fact, it seems like she really has told half the board about this one private mail I sent her...
I never thought that private mail would be considered so important. I guess the content must have hit a nerve. How long will it take before Fi just put it on the board. I think she is tempted to do it she knows it could result in a ban... :lol:

Yasmine
May 14th, 2006, 10:58 AM
Well, as a matter of fact, it seems like she really has told half the board about this one private mail I sent her...
I never thought that private mail would be considered so important. I guess the content must have hit a nerve. How long will it take before Fi just put it on the board. I think she is tempted to do it she knows it could result in a ban... :lol:
Hagar, do you realise that actually fifi doesn't need to post some PM you might have sent her to make you look ridiculous? you do it all by yourself by your posts... Just see the amount of people who disagree with you.

Hagar
May 14th, 2006, 11:16 AM
Hagar, do you realise that actually fifi doesn't need to post some PM you might have sent her to make you look ridiculous? you do it all by yourself by your posts... Just see the amount of people who disagree with you.

Yasmine, I really can't be bothered with the fact that people find me ridiculous or not. I haven't seen anyone come up with serious and objective arguments against my ideas since all that is done is some sentimental and irrational Hagar-bashing. I report that to administrators not because I take it personally (it does after all only say something about the basher, not about me) but because insults have no place on an internet forum. The administrators seem to have a different opinion about this unfortunately.

I think that you and Fi hope to pester me away from this board since you don't manage to incorporate in your clique. None of the two options will happen.

BTW, there is no way I can consider the few people who post in this thread as a representative sample of the posters of this board.

Allez-H
May 14th, 2006, 11:19 AM
Don't you think there's a reason why so many posters are acting this way against you Hagar :scratch:

The Crow
May 14th, 2006, 11:52 AM
And our politically correct administrators do even refuse to delete it... So let me just give it some more attention by bumping it up.

Oh fuck off. Politically correct would be to delete it immediately. Btw there have been reports of your posts as well, and some we have left as well.

And why the hell do you want to bump a post that you want deleted? Just shut up about it and noone speaks of it again. But apparently you want people to talk about it/you. Well if you really want to hear it once again: yes you are a hypocrite.

Yasmine
May 14th, 2006, 11:54 AM
Yasmine, I really can't be bothered with the fact that people find me ridiculous or not. I haven't seen anyone come up with serious and objective arguments against my ideas since all that is done is some sentimental and irrational Hagar-bashing. I report that to administrators not because I take it personally (it does after all only say something about the basher, not about me) but because insults have no place on an internet forum. The administrators seem to have a different opinion about this unfortunately.

I think that you and Fi hope to pester me away from this board since you don't manage to incorporate in your clique. None of the two options will happen.

BTW, there is no way I can consider the few people who post in this thread as a representative sample of the posters of this board.
insults? where have I insulted you or your roots or your country before please go and find a post... However I couldn't say the same the other way around, but thankfully it stopped offending me a long time ago coming from so low...
We're not looking to pester you from the board and thank god I have more than enough friends in here that are so much more worth it than someone like you Hagar. From what I see you're the one against everybody else here, and it's far from being the first time. So I wonder who hasn't got a clique. Ah right so posters in this thread don't represent people from this board, probably not you're right. Gosh I wonder if the majority of younger posters (go and find out the age average on the board) aren't right, ignoring that kind of place where people try to have decent and respectful discussions.

James
May 14th, 2006, 11:54 AM
Yasmine, I really can't be bothered with the fact that people find me ridiculous or not. I haven't seen anyone come up with serious and objective arguments against my ideas since all that is done is some sentimental and irrational Hagar-bashing. I report that to administrators not because I take it personally (it does after all only say something about the basher, not about me) but because insults have no place on an internet forum. The administrators seem to have a different opinion about this unfortunately.

I think that you and Fi hope to pester me away from this board since you don't manage to incorporate in your clique. None of the two options will happen.

BTW, there is no way I can consider the few people who post in this thread as a representative sample of the posters of this board.

I've given arguments in every post. You usually toss them aside.

flyingmachine
May 14th, 2006, 12:26 PM
Aww, y'all ganging up on poor Hagar again :lol:


I'd like to say my mind on this but since 'some poster' told me our kind of people don't talk but bark, I'll just keep shut :tape:
Don't just shut up just say what you think. I get bad reps from other people because I expressed my admiration towords Justine but that mean that I have to shut up because of that. Anyway it's better to express yoursleves even if at times people criticze about you which people will always will do.

Hagar
May 14th, 2006, 12:32 PM
Oh fuck off. Politically correct would be to delete it immediately. Btw there have been reports of your posts as well, and some we have left as well.

And why the hell do you want to bump a post that you want deleted? Just shut up about it and noone speaks of it again. But apparently you want people to talk about it/you. Well if you really want to hear it once again: yes you are a hypocrite.

Glad to see you openly admit your partiality, The Crow. You even insult me openly. You are clearly the right person to be an administrator. :tape:

BTW, the fact that people report my posts does not mean there is something wrong with it. My posts contain ideas people don't like but I think that it will take some time to find a post of me where I insult someone...

I will report this post but I doubt it makes sense since you might as well be the mod of this thread.

The Crow
May 14th, 2006, 12:42 PM
I insult you? IMO you ARE a hypocrite, that's not an insult. And this last post of yours proves it once again. You have something against politically correctness, but once someone says something about you which is true in their opinion (but which isn't politically correct I give you that) you're pissed off and report it. Give me a fucking break already!

Hagar
May 14th, 2006, 12:53 PM
I insult you? IMO you ARE a hypocrite, that's not an insult. And this last post of yours proves it once again. You have something against politically correctness, but once someone says something about you which is true in their opinion (but which isn't politically correct I give you that) you're pissed off and report it. Give me a fucking break already!

So you find it OK that someone posts:
"This time around it looks much more to me like a "Hagar is a sad and desperate hypocrite" thread" because it is just true in their own opinion. What a shallow argument; people always write things which are true in their opinion...

There is a sticky post in GM which says: "Voice your opinions all you want but refrain from using insults and personal attacks." Apparently that rule is not valid for everyone.
You are an adminstrator so you are supposed to do an effort to be objective! I am a member of other fora and the administrators there seem to have no problem with that, but here on wtaworld the admins are extremely biased...

fifiricci
May 14th, 2006, 04:22 PM
I do believe I've just fallen hopelessly in love with The Crow :worship:

fifiricci
May 14th, 2006, 04:56 PM
Well, as a matter of fact, it seems like she really has told half the board about this one private mail I sent her...
I never thought that private mail would be considered so important. I guess the content must have hit a nerve. How long will it take before Fi just put it on the board. I think she is tempted to do it she knows it could result in a ban... :lol:

Jesus Hagar, given the number of times you've referred to that PM, methinks tis you that wants me to publish its ridiculous, vindictive and very nasty content for all the world to see. I would do so gladly, but there's no need, given that its obvious to everyone what kind of person you are without them needing any help from me. :devil:

hablo
May 14th, 2006, 05:24 PM
I've given arguments in every post. You usually toss them aside.not a surprise, really :lol:

The Crow
May 14th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Okay, back on topic. How it is possible that someone can buy a weapon as deadly as a gun without a permit or anything is still really beyond me. And the weapon organisation that is against the new weapon's law with the reasoning that 'weapons will be sold illegally from that moment on' :rolleyes: What kind of dumb reasoning is that?

nicky
May 14th, 2006, 06:04 PM
Okay, back on topic. How it is possible that someone can buy a weapon as deadly as a gun without a permit or anything is still really beyond me. And the weapon organisation that is against the new weapon's law with the reasoning that 'weapons will be sold illegally from that moment on' :rolleyes: What kind of dumb reasoning is that?

:eek: They didn't...How dare they... :mad:
There is no way this young man would have obtained a gun illegally in such an easy way :cuckoo:.

Damn, vote that new gun law - and make it as strict as possible!

fifiricci
May 14th, 2006, 07:19 PM
In my view you need to make it as difficult as possible for people to buy guns. In the UK these days it is practically impossible to buy a gun because very tough laws were brought in some years ago, I think following the Dunblane massacre, although it had always been pretty difficult to get hold of a gun anyway (for example, it was never like the States here). Now you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get one and I think even then you need to justify why you need it (eg be a farmer). Then you have to have a licence and keep the thing locked up in a cupboard and the police come round to check on that, I think.

Of course, whenever you make something illegal, that thing will always be available on the "back streets" or covertly in some way, just as for example abortion always was here when it was illegal and presumably still is if you want one beyond the legal limit (which is 24 weeks now I think).

But at least making gun ownership very difficult under the law is the best way of averting incidents like the one you just experienced in Belgium.

Justineladivine
May 14th, 2006, 07:19 PM
:eek: They didn't...How dare they... :mad:
There is no way this young man would have obtained a gun illegally in such an easy way :cuckoo:.

Damn, vote that new gun law - and make it as strict as possible!

Following the carnage in a school in the UK a few years ago they clamped down on guns for good. I guarantee the same will happen in Belgium now. Now about gun lobbies, think of the NRA in the US. Despite the appalling death toll in the US they've always succeeded in derailing gun control despite courageous attempts like the Brady Law. The NRA have a hell of a slogan on this: "Guns don't kill, people do..." Enough said on the logic or gun-crazy lobbies.
Sure guns will still be sold illegally if such a law is passed but that should make it a bit more difficult than walking into a gunsmith's shop, slapping your ID on the counter, filling in a form and walking off with a bloody Winchester, shouldn'it?
BTW, Hagar, I'm still expecting a reply to my reply to your post about growing up in a certain environment and being thus susceptible to certain ideas...

Justineladivine
May 14th, 2006, 07:20 PM
Damn, Fifiricci has beaten me to it about the Dunblane tragedy

fifiricci
May 14th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Damn, Fifiricci has beaten me to it about the Dunblane tragedy

Lol sorry, but only just.

Why don't we think of it in terms of "great minds thinking alike" ;)

Justineladivine
May 14th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Lol sorry, but only just.

Why don't we think of it in terms of "great minds thinking alike" ;)

You're right (lol). And between the two of us maybe there's a better chance for the message to get across

pla
May 14th, 2006, 08:15 PM
with what happened in clichy sous bois and other regions I don't blame him. Actually him and Philippe de Villiers are my favourite politicians in France. I hate Le pen though because he is racist and anti semitic. I love Judaism and though am against islamism not Muslims themselves. I hope sarko wins because he is (just like Segolene) a supporter of free market reforms. Segolene had kind words for Blair and his economic policies so she can't be that bad. :D

With what happens each and every day in France I don't blame the people from Cl. sous bois and the other subberbs. I hope you watched France 2 or 3 yesterday.

Actually Filippe de Villiers IS from the far-right and he doesn't hide it nor deny it :o . You see, you like them both cause they are SO alike.

James
May 14th, 2006, 08:48 PM
not a surprise, really :lol:

She didn't even bother to reply there.