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View Full Version : What Venus and Serena could do to help working class blacks


Toineefa
May 22nd, 2002, 04:33 AM
They're not my favourite players but I do see them as role models cos they're not only black they're successful. I think cos they came from the ghetto they could help other blacks in the ghetto. I realise this is a sensitive topic but I do think it's important so please don't take offence especially you Dawn and Jakeev.

Venus and Serena could not only have tennis seminars but they could serve as mentors so to speak to underprivileged blacks. Venus and Serena could teach these blacks the importance of work ethics, social etiquette, birth control and discipline. This cycle of being victims needs to stop cos it's the mentality of victimisation that has ruined the lives of many working class blacks.

I know Venus and Serena do loads of charity work but I think they need to focus on poor blacks. They can emphasise the things that gave them the strength to succeed in tennis and get out of poverty and the ghetto.

I apologise if anyone takes offence but I believe this is important.

Infiniti2001
May 22nd, 2002, 04:58 AM
They're not my favourite players

But it's okay to tell them how to run their lives??? :rolleyes:

CC
May 22nd, 2002, 05:01 AM
Toineefa, your post indicates that you are somewhat detached.......

JonBcn
May 22nd, 2002, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by Toineefa
they could serve as mentors so to speak to underprivileged blacks. Venus and Serena could teach these blacks the importance of work ethics, social etiquette, birth control and discipline. This cycle of being victims needs to stop cos it's the mentality of victimisation that has ruined the lives of many working class blacks.


Nobody suggests that Tim Henman does this for poor kids in Moss Side, I dont see why V+S should be expected to just because they share the same skin colour; they´re tennis players not politicians, and, whatsmore only kids themselves.

I do see your point, but its the responsibility of everyone to educate and be educated on these matters, and should be dealt with by existing social structures; families, the government, churches, schools and so on. Not a pair of millionairess tennis players who do all their shopping on the internet (dont take that as an anti-Williams dig, guys, I´m fan).

HAIL-VENUS
May 22nd, 2002, 06:05 AM
Toineefa, your suggestions show just how little you know about Venus and Serena. How do you know that they don't already do these things. If you don't know something, then how can you comment about it. It kind of makes you look silly. No, actually, it makes you look silly as hell. Why don't you do a little Venus and Serena research before you make such suggestions. BTW, what can Martina Hingis do to help poor little SwissKids?:p

topspin
May 22nd, 2002, 07:01 AM
Here are some truths beyond the stereotypes:

Did you know that the majority race in the USA were getting more pregnant than the minority race in the past 15 years or so? The black girls were more likely than so to give birth of their child than choose abortion. They were also less likely to give their child up for adoption. So this assumption is misleading.

Did you also know that more white people were on welfare than black people? Yet, the image of welfare is 99% of the time shown in the media as a black woman with three or more kids.

What about the topic of stealing? It's ironic how as they say "those blacks are living off the system and living free off our hard-earned money." Yet, the Enrons, the S&Ls, the corporate raiders, the banks, the Wall Street analysts, the credit card issurers, and so on have robbed more people of the their pensions, benefits, wages, mutual funds, portfolios, and other financial belongings more than anything else.

And since they came on the tour, Serena and Venus have been going to the black neighborhoods to inspire courage and hope. It was in print somewhere their parents would take them back and forth to Compton so that they wouldn't forget where they came from. They do this act in secret because they are not the type to put on a front so they can be seen in the public eye.

Black people have their problems. The main problem with their problems is that you will see black people's problems more in the news than anybody else's problems. Is this because the majority of black people are doing wrong or is it "only" black people who are doing wrong? Other races have the same problems as black people. As history has shown, you are going to see more positive images of other races in the media than black people.

And some of us have a theory as to why this is.

"Topaz"
May 22nd, 2002, 07:06 AM
Toineefa, you sound quite sincere and I commend you. It looks like you do care about these, to use your own words,

"working class blacks",
"underprivileged blacks",
"blacks in the ghetto",
"poor blacks".

And I presume all that represents one group (!). Now, let's replace the word "blacks" with "whites" in these phrases. Do you still care?

If so, in your mind, can Venus and Serena be role models for them too?

Well, mankind is wide and large, and we all need help, don't we.

Terri77
May 22nd, 2002, 07:12 AM
Why do poor people need to be taught work ethics? Most of them worker harder than you and I ever will. And social etiquette? I'm confused. People of all economic status lack in manners. Oh, and that whole victimization card thing? The vast majority of people do not choose to be poor. All of these rather naive remarks make me think that you know very little about poverty in this country. But you do raise a thoughtful topic to consider.

TeeRexx
May 22nd, 2002, 07:15 AM
Maybe Jennifer and Lindsay can also go into poor white neighborhoods and help out those people to learn proper grammar, social skills and work ethic as well.

That would be great.

JonBcn
May 22nd, 2002, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
Maybe Jennifer and Lindsay can also go into poor white neighborhoods and help out those people to learn proper grammar, social skills and work ethic as well.



Grammar lessons from Jen! That´d be, like...y´know...um...rilly great!

Dawn Marie
May 22nd, 2002, 08:14 AM
I agree with all the responses in this topic.:)

You know alot of people from different walks of life are listening to Venus and Serena, and they happen to be people of all different shapes, sizes and backgrounds.:)

Tonieefa, one does not have to be rich to be a role model. Understand that just because one may come from a under priveledged background doesn't mean they are and I quote "ghetto". You can be rich and a millionare and be "ghetto" in my opinion. See, it's not where you're from, but HOW YOU LIVE.


Tonieefa, You should have checked on some facts regarding Venus and Serena, and even about people in general, before you mentioned this topic. In all honesty, you come off as very ignorant.

I just hope the responses in this post opened your eyes somewhat. In fact, Hopefully, the replies, worked as your mentor and now you're seeing the situations differently, in an altogether different light.:)

Beige
May 22nd, 2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by topspin
Here are some truths beyond the stereotypes:

Did you know that the majority race in the USA were getting more pregnant than the minority race in the past 15 years or so? The black girls were more likely than so to give birth of their child than choose abortion. They were also less likely to give their child up for adoption. So this assumption is misleading.

Did you also know that more white people were on welfare than black people? Yet, the image of welfare is 99% of the time shown in the media as a black woman with three or more kids.

What about the topic of stealing? It's ironic how as they say "those blacks are living off the system and living free off our hard-earned money." Yet, the Enrons, the S&Ls, the corporate raiders, the banks, the Wall Street analysts, and so on have robbed more people of the their pensions, benefits, wages mutual funds, portfolios, and other financial belongings more than anything else.

And since they came on the tour, Serena and Venus have been going to the black neighborhoods to inspire courage and hope. It was in print somewhere their parents would take them back and forth to Compton so that they wouldn't forget where they come from. They do thiis act in secret because they are not the type to put on a front so they can be seen in the public eye.

Black people have their problems. The main problem with their problems is that you will see them more in the news than anybody else's problems. Is this because the majority of black people are doing wrong or is it "only" black people who are doing wrong? Other races have the same problems as black people. As history has shown, you are going to see more positive images of other races in the media than black people.

And some of us have a theory as to why this is.

Great post, topspin! I have said similar things on a few other threads on this board. The media is all about ratings and selling papers and the more sensational the story the better. They love showing footage or posting pics of menacing-looking blacks because it makes for such "compelling" copy. :mad: :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie, it's so true: rich people can be ghetto, too!!! Just because they're financially comfortable doesn't mean they're immune from "low class" behavior. Please. :rolleyes:

Foot_Fault
May 22nd, 2002, 01:07 PM
What Venus and Serena can do to help working class blks???

KEEP ON WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

tennischick
May 22nd, 2002, 02:11 PM
actually the LTA did try to strike exactly such a deal to promote tennis in Moss Side and similar areas using V & S as role models. the deal fell thru bec Richard asked for more than they were prepared to pay. at the time everyone made this same point about why Timmy and Greg couldn't attract more "Blacks" to the sport.

Originally posted by JonBcn
Nobody suggests that Tim Henman does this for poor kids in Moss Side, I dont see why V+S should be expected to just because they share the same skin colour; they´re tennis players not politicians, and, whatsmore only kids themselves.

Amanda
May 22nd, 2002, 02:15 PM
Toineefa--I am both shocked and amazed by your stated ignorance.I suggest you invest in African American studies 101.
It is quite aparent by your statements that you are totally insensitive to the feelings of African Americans, or perhaps you were just being malicious. You sure have an odd way of attempting to "not offend".:fiery:

irma
May 22nd, 2002, 02:19 PM
Venus and Serena are tennisplayers not mother theresa's in education :rolleyes:

Pureracket
May 22nd, 2002, 02:33 PM
Toneifa,
You obviously stated your perception of "working class Blacks" in your second paragraph. It speaks of ol' school racism, stereotyping, and ignorance. I don't know you personally, but I seriously doubt if you are a crusader for any serious social issue whatsoever.

I have an idea what can happen, though. We could NOT categorize an entire group of people in one paragraph.

You can also "help" all those people that need "help" by simply not creating threads that you know are offensive.

sartrista7
May 22nd, 2002, 02:51 PM
Surely Venus and Serena's appeal should transcend both race and social status just by being who they are and doing what they do best, i.e. play tennis? Just like any other tennis player, or indeed any other important cultural figure. I don't think any of them have an obligation to do any more.

Legends
May 22nd, 2002, 03:02 PM
[Re: 'Richard's' demand for payment

could i point out that
1. whilst the LTA insisted they approached Venus and were asked for payment, Venus herself denied having been approached by them- who do you believe in this instance,
my theory? may there not have been a middleman - you know some people call them agents - involved in this fiasco.

it was a bit disheartening that last year's wimbledon got overshadowed by the negative press reports on the matter.

i felt ashamed by the behaviour of the british press and the hostile reception accorded venus in the final which i attribute to the reports ( not just the underdog theory)


2. regardless of who demanded what, the sum in question was either 2 or 1 hundred thousand pounds (i forget), how much profit did the LTA make last year and on what has all that money been spent ?

Ntosake
May 22nd, 2002, 03:26 PM
Ditto to pretty much what everyone said.

I don't know you either, Toineefa, and can only read things that you post from time to time, but it's clear that the Williams nor their race are your favorites, and even clearer what this thread is about.

Either you are not familiar with the very public things the Sisters already do off court, or you are willingly and ignorantly refusing to acknowledge them.

Perhaps you are familiar with the words of a MJ song that goes something like"...make this a better place, for you and for me and the entire human race." ?

I think the lyrics have meaning for all of us, regardless of race, social status, or income, or whatever. We all have a part to play, not just the famous of the world, but everyday people as well.

So my question to you, T. is exactly what have you done humanitarian wise to help the working class poor of your race, whatever it is? What have you contributed to your race since
your existence.

Take a stroll around your part of the world, and "make a difference" doing something worthwhile, and maybe you wouldn't have tiime to come to a message board and hurl covert insults at those that do.

ys
May 22nd, 2002, 05:02 PM
I do not think they should be doing more than just being perfect role models for African-Americans.

I, however, feel that they could be paying more attention to the continent of their ancestors - to Africa. That's who really needs help..

Rollo
May 22nd, 2002, 05:10 PM
The Saturday before Rome Venus was here in Washington DC promoting a tennis centre in Southeast Washington:)

mishar
May 22nd, 2002, 05:21 PM
Now they are supposed to save the entire continent of Africa?? How should they do that? THEY ARE TENNIS PLAYERS.

LOL at Jon.. Capriati teaching grammar lessons:eek: :eek:

ot1962
May 22nd, 2002, 05:22 PM
Excellent responses!!!
They are role models for a lot of people, whether pink, blue or red.

Ntosake
May 22nd, 2002, 05:43 PM
ys, I respectfully disagree that the Williams should pay more attention to the land of Africa. They are foremost, Americans, and it is in America where they can have the most influence on others regardless of their race. (They may be of African descent, but they are Americans, and can be role models and benefactors to many races)

It's like saying that Jennnifer (because she is of Italian descent) should focus on the poor of Italy, when in fact she is also American. Should Monica do the same? Should all players be required to do the same for their native countries?

I'm satisfied with all the things the Williams try to do for others less fortunate than them. With all the problems of Africa, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Cuba, Brazil, the Middle East, there's poor folks every part of the globe---all the social imbalances and injustices in the world, etc, etc--it will take more than the likes of two young American millionaire tennis players from Compton.

Africa's problems, like many other places in the world, will need
the help of the entire global community.

I think V&S should focus on tennis for now, and do what they can within reason to help others along the way.

ys
May 22nd, 2002, 06:07 PM
Africa's problems, like many other places in the world, will need the help of the entire global community.

entire global community - that's meaningless. What do you mean by that? UN? Whom has UN ever really helped? Africa can be helped only by efforts of people, first of all those who have any connection to Africa. I have some African connection, and I feel somewhat responsible for it too. Many players played exhibition tournaments in Africa - Graf, Kournikova, Coetzer. I have an impression that African-Americans are generally less active and generous in helping Africa than European-Americans, and that's strange.

And Italy doesn't need Capriati's help, I'd rather think that Capriati might use some help from italy..

mishar
May 22nd, 2002, 06:27 PM
YS - you're a smart fellow, just being silly. Graf, Kournikova and Coetzer played exhibitions in South Africa -- how did that help the suffering of Africa? I don't know if they were for charity or for profit, but I'm sure the tickets were expensive. Even if the Williams sisters were to do go through the rural areas of Ghana giving tennis clinics, I'm not sure it would make a difference to, let's say, the public health infrastructure.

ys
May 22nd, 2002, 06:59 PM
I'm not sure it would make a difference to, let's say, the public health infrastructure

It is very rare that what one person does would make real difference. Just like the outcome of the election won't change whether you vote or not. But you go and vote. Because while one vote is never a difference, a difference is a sum of "one-vote"s. Same here. If what I am trying to do for Africa is one vote, what the sisters could have done for Africa would be comparable to the sum of votes of a town.

One of the problems of Africa is that it is really left alone. Nobody really cares. That's why that's celebrities who could help to turn America's and Europe's attention to Africa. And African-American celebrities of Williams caliber could do much more than average white celebrity. If Kournikova-Coetzer exhibition was broadcasted on South African national television, then I am pretty sure, should it have been Venus-Coetzer, or Venus-Serena exhibition, it would get much more attention from South African black population. I can't even imagine how popular could they have been in there..

Ntosake
May 22nd, 2002, 07:49 PM
ys,

What I mean by global community is just that, global community---everybody.(Countries, nations, governments, world banks, world charities, organizations, people,(even the UN is made up of peoples but even they can't do it alone) you, me---in other words, everybody and their momma can help)

I just diasgreed with you that the focus of the Williams should be Africa. It will take world-wide efforts from America, Europe and everywhere else to tackle a whole continents problems. V & S can't focus on such a huge responsibility any more than Jennifer on Italy or Shaghnassy on Ireland, or Monica on her native land)

As to why African Americans contribute less to the world wide relief efforts it may have a lot to do with economics, I suspect, and also with the fact that they spend of lot of valuable energy, time, finances and resources just trying to live a decent life in America. Some could do more, but many that can do, and it's an individual thing done from the heart so it's hard to assess the efforts of a whole group by what individuals are able to do.

I can't speak for anyone else, but as a community organizer, I know of years of faithful contributions made to organizations locally, nationally and world wide by many African American individuals and groups.

That was a cute remark you made re Jennifer, but I won't go there with you (hehe). I'll just say that I am satisfied with the efforts of the Williams so far when it comes to their fellow man.

Bella
May 22nd, 2002, 09:36 PM
As to why African Americans contribute less to the world wide relief efforts it may have a lot to do with economics, I suspect, and also with the fact that they spend of lot of valuable energy, time, finances and resources just trying to live a decent life in America.

Like the rest of us don't? "We're all poor" is as tired as it is inaccurate.

Just for clarification, working class is middle-class.

The 'working poor' are low-income people who have jobs that don't pay a livable wage.

It takes the government to help those two groups. HUD. Taxes. Health coverage. Education. Etc. (Unless George is president in which case he helps big business and the Republican party rip them and everyone else off.)

Venus and Serena could give money to pay for tutoring for poor kids. They could schedule those sessions right before their free tennis lessons.

Toineefa
May 22nd, 2002, 09:36 PM
I apologise to those that took took offence. All I meant was that cos Venus and Serena are role models and are familiar with the ghetto and poverty they could influence loads of blacks from lower economic backgrounds. Venus and Serena could teach to working class blacks things such as the importance of speaking well and with correct grammar as well as discouraging out of wedlock children. I realise that it is a huge responsibility but underprivileged blacks need that type of leadership and who better to get it from than two tennis stars who come from the ghetto as well.

Ntosake
May 22nd, 2002, 10:00 PM
Sorry, Toineefa.

Apology not accepted. Your second post comes off just as offensive, covert, and condescending as your first post.

Try again.

Or better yet, why not post some examples of what your favorite player (whoever she is) is doing these days to help the illiterates and unmarried mothers of her race?

"Topaz"
May 22nd, 2002, 10:09 PM
May I suggest that nobody responds to Toineefa, as nothing is getting through to her.

It's a wonderful subject though. Also, I would like to tell YS, in passing, that Africa is not being left alone and, in fact, has the full attention of the West in ways you probably don't know. On balance, the relationship is looking positive. It would take a full book to lay this out, not a post on this board.

Please let's get back to tennis.

Callie19
May 22nd, 2002, 10:11 PM
Since when was that their responsibility? Are you really for real?*I came...I saw... and I conquered*

Ntosake
May 22nd, 2002, 11:22 PM
Sorry, Bella, I missed your post quoting me.

I in no way said or implied that "we're all poor", and I'm sorry if thats how that came across to you because it's not what I meant at all.

I used the term "I suspect" which means I'm guessing-taking a stab at-- that economics might play a role in how some give. I just think that some people have less, and so they give less, and that could be a possible reason as any. And by the same token, some people have everything and give nothing. The economy is down and many organizations are receiving fewer donations than even before.

Sure, lots of groups have a rough go of it everyday, I never implied otherwise. They are of every race, every nation, and they still are decent people who make a difference regardless if they have little or much, the Williams being in the latter group.

And yes, TennisPower, we do need to get back to tennis.

Toineefa
May 22nd, 2002, 11:53 PM
Nosake that's too bad but I really do mean no offence. There are loads of problems with working class people in general. With poor blacks there is a need for revitalisation and reorganisation so to speak. Venus and Serena can be involved cos they are famous. They can encourage the practise of good diction and proper grooming for example. Marti is my favourite and she has done loads of charity work in Switzerland, the Czech Republic and South America. She has used her fame to help the underprivileged.

Kart
May 23rd, 2002, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Legends

i felt ashamed by the behaviour of the british press and the hostile reception accorded venus in the final which i attribute to the reports ( not just the underdog theory)



What hostile reception ?

tennischick
May 23rd, 2002, 12:12 AM
Legends:
i wasn't aware that the LTA had claimed to have approached Venus directly on this matter. if they did, that was downright stupid so i wouldn't be surprised -- they do seem to have a way of completely messing things up.

what i do remember is that all of the talks between them and Richard had been hush hush until he demanded 200,000. pounds for his daughters' services. the LTA balked at the figure. i dunno if Richard went to the press in an attempt to strong-arm them, embarass them, or just bec he was pissed but he did then proceed to make some negative comments about how the LTA was not serious about promoting tennis in inner-city communities. the LTA retaliated by going public about the figure he demanded (in a clear attempt at publicly humiliating him) and then the whole thing got real ugly.

IMO, in the end it was the LTA that ended up with egg all over their faces. they ended up looking quite stupid and retro. i wasn't aware that the story had overshadowed Wimbledon so badly -- in fact i didn't think that anything could penetrate the endless waves of Henmania. :o :o

in my coverage of it i also focused on how Venus had paid the price for something that she did not do. i speculated that maybe that's why she is mentally so strong. one survives these negative experiences or gets crushed by all the ill-will.

of course i agree that the LTA can afford it. the Guardian is always carrying stories about how come they have so much $$ and all they have to show for it is Hen-Boy and Greg the import (no offence to Lee).



Originally posted by Legends
[Re: 'Richard's' demand for payment

could i point out that
1. whilst the LTA insisted they approached Venus and were asked for payment, Venus herself denied having been approached by them- who do you believe in this instance,
my theory? may there not have been a middleman - you know some people call them agents - involved in this fiasco.

it was a bit disheartening that last year's wimbledon got overshadowed by the negative press reports on the matter.

i felt ashamed by the behaviour of the british press and the hostile reception accorded venus in the final which i attribute to the reports ( not just the underdog theory)


2. regardless of who demanded what, the sum in question was either 2 or 1 hundred thousand pounds (i forget), how much profit did the LTA make last year and on what has all that money been spent ?

Rocketta
May 23rd, 2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Toineefa
Nosake that's too bad but I really do mean no offence. There are loads of problems with working class people in general. With poor blacks there is a need for revitalisation and reorganisation so to speak. Venus and Serena can be involved cos they are famous. They can encourage the practise of good diction and proper grooming for example. Marti is my favourite and she has done loads of charity work in Switzerland, the Czech Republic and South America. She has used her fame to help the underprivileged.

Wow, that was filled with details??:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Now I know exactly how Martina helps the underprivileged!:rolleyes:

Cybelle Darkholme
May 23rd, 2002, 01:00 AM
I am so sorry but this thread blatantly discrimanates against a particular race. As someone else suggested why not substitute the world white or asian for black and then add the appropriate tennis player of that particular color. There are poor and uneducated people of all races around the world.

Better yet why not go and do something yourself instead of looking to someone else to do it for you.

Oh as a sidenote since the oldest ever human remains were found in africa that would suggest that every human being regardless or nationality or color originates from Africa, so maybe we should all be paying attention and not just Venus and Serena.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

tennischick
May 23rd, 2002, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by Kart
What hostile reception ?

i think cold would be a better word.

Kart
May 23rd, 2002, 01:30 AM
'cold' in what sense ?

tennischick
May 23rd, 2002, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Kart
'cold' in what sense ?

the crowd at Wimby clapped politely and generally behaved themselves. it would have been nice to see some of the excitement that Goran received.

Terri77
May 23rd, 2002, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Toineefa
They can encourage the practise of good diction and proper grooming for example.

Good diction and proper grooming should be encouraged on all levels of society. All of these things you mention should be. Once again you stereotype poor people. Your posts are beyond ridiculous.

Kart
May 23rd, 2002, 01:48 AM
tennischick, I should add that I didn't see the men's final, but surely the situations were quite different - Goran had been in three Wimbledon finals and never won and from what it looked like the score was very close.

I'm not surprised the crowd got more excited than they did for the women's match - surely that doesn't mean that they gave Venus a cold reception, just that they gave Goran an extra warm one ?

tennischick
May 23rd, 2002, 01:56 AM
OK let's not compare her to Goran. let's compare the reception she got the year she won with the reception she got the year she defended. the crowd was ecstatic the first year. they applauded politely the second. i think the difference was significant. it wasn't hostile in an active sense -- it was just politely cold. and i do agree with the poster who said that the difference had nothing to do with Juju being the underdog. altho' i do believe that the same politely reserved crowd would have gone ballistic if Justine had beaten Venus. that's MHO.

there was also some drama around Venus' post-win photo-shoots but i can't remember what it was.


Originally posted by Kart
tennischick, I should add that I didn't see the men's final, but surely the situations were quite different - Goran had been in three Wimbledon finals and never won and from what it looked like the score was very close.

I'm not surprised the crowd got more excited than they did for the women's match - surely that doesn't mean that they gave Venus a cold reception, just that they gave Goran an extra warm one ?

Kart
May 23rd, 2002, 02:04 AM
So if you think that the 'underdog effect' had nothing to do with it, what do you put it down to ?

tennischick
May 23rd, 2002, 02:11 AM
all the negative publicity resulting from the fallout between Richard and the LTA -- that's where we started isn't it? lol!! i think Venus paid the price for the dislike of her father. not the first time.

Originally posted by Kart
So if you think that the 'underdog effect' had nothing to do with it, what do you put it down to ?

Sam L
May 23rd, 2002, 12:15 PM
I think they have already served their purpose. With Venus and Serena winning tournaments and by been a representative of the black minorities in America, it helps some of them in the community feel that they have also won something. It's like "we may have lost throughout history but we're winning now" sort of attitude. IMO it's a bit delusional but if it works I guess that's fine.

Beige
May 23rd, 2002, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Ntosake
Sorry, Toineefa.

Apology not accepted. Your second post comes off just as offensive, covert, and condescending as your first post.

Try again.

Or better yet, why not post some examples of what your favorite player (whoever she is) is doing these days to help the illiterates and unmarried mothers of her race?

Hey Ntosake! :wavey: Well said on both your posts and I completely agree! Covert, indeed!

Toineefa, why are you singling out Venus & Serena?! Has Kournikova been tutoring impoverished Russians? Should Suarez help poor Hispanics? Is Sugiyama volunteering in Tokyo ghettos? Etc etc etc You obviously have another agenda but don't realize that we are on to you!!! :rolleyes:

Kart
May 23rd, 2002, 11:49 PM
tennischick I (respectfully) don't agree with you. Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

For me, the Wimbledon crowd always cheers for the underdog which is probably why they were so pro-Venus the year before. After all, you could ask why Lindsay got less of a great reception bearing in mind she was the defending champion that year.

BBC TV (forgive me but I'm not sure if you are in UK or not) absolutely loves Venus. They had several interviews with her last year all reflecting her in a positive light. They cover all her matches. They interviewed her father while he was handing out tickets to people in the queue giving him ample time to air all his views and even brought on Dion Warwick the year before to meet and congratulate the sisters.

They get very positive press here on TV and I really don't believe that the majority of the crowd would have even been aware of the LTA vs. Richard Williams issue, let alone cared.

Most of the general UK public wouldn't be able to tell you what the LTA stands for here as tennis gets zero press unless it's Tim Henman or you've got cable. That's why I really doubt Richard Williams matters to them, and why I doubt even more that they would resent Venus because of him.

Still that's just my opinion I guess :).

junkartist
May 24th, 2002, 12:58 AM
Toniefa if you need help...all youhave to do is ask! Especially with proper grooming...

tennischick
May 24th, 2002, 02:26 AM
i wasn't at all referring to the TV coverage she received or to her relationship with UK media/the BBC. i take your word for that.

i was actually referring specifically to the reaction of the crowd in attendance at the finals match. they were polite and clapped at appropriate times but there was none of the excitement with which her win had been greeted the year before. and just so you know, i am not particularly a Venus fan (i'm far more partial to Serena) so i don't believe that my POV is blinded by fan worship. also, i have friends, both in and out of the media who went to Wimby last year and they too described the subtle coolness that others noted. i put it down to the bad press that her father was receiving at the time. it may be that the Underdog factor was more of an issue than i (and others) recognised. i'm totally open to that. i would give anything to go to Wimby this year and see for myself but i can't convince any media house to cough up the $$ for my trip. bec really i'd rather judge for myself.

thanks for this lovely discussion. it's so difficult to engage in dialogue about the Sisters without somebody going beserk.


Originally posted by Kart
tennischick I (respectfully) don't agree with you. Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

For me, the Wimbledon crowd always cheers for the underdog which is probably why they were so pro-Venus the year before. After all, you could ask why Lindsay got less of a great reception bearing in mind she was the defending champion that year.

BBC TV (forgive me but I'm not sure if you are in UK or not) absolutely loves Venus. They had several interviews with her last year all reflecting her in a positive light. They cover all her matches. They interviewed her father while he was handing out tickets to people in the queue giving him ample time to air all his views and even brought on Dion Warwick the year before to meet and congratulate the sisters.

They get very positive press here on TV and I really don't believe that the majority of the crowd would have even been aware of the LTA vs. Richard Williams issue, let alone cared.

Most of the general UK public wouldn't be able to tell you what the LTA stands for here as tennis gets zero press unless it's Tim Henman or you've got cable. That's why I really doubt Richard Williams matters to them, and why I doubt even more that they would resent Venus because of him.

Still that's just my opinion I guess :).