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View Full Version : Do NOT forget! 1986-2006


pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 08:57 AM
20 years ago, I was outside picking flowers and making tea of them, while a strange cloud had just rained over the field. While I have nothing (cross fingers), thousands and thousand of people suffer from this:

http://www.1986-2006.com/

My thoughts go to every victim of the biggest civil N-tragedy and especially to the Ukrainian and Belorussian people.

And let the responsibles of not telling us the truth burn in hell :fiery:

http://www.ozodi.org/images/photo/img_header.jpg

http://www.ozodi.org/images/photo/UKRAINE-CHERNOBYL-MEMORI-36.jpg :sad:

CooCooCachoo
Apr 26th, 2006, 08:58 AM
:sad:

SilK
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:00 AM
:sad: true tragedy.

Chris 84
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:05 AM
:sad:

Sevenseas
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:07 AM
:sad::sad:

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:07 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/cherlinks.html

Here is a site worth reading. It's writen by a young woman going quite often in the Dead Zone (pictures inside)

Chris 84
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:17 AM
As a bit of an aside......My dad took me to a football game at the time, when I was 2, and it started raining heavily.....even though we were in Scotland (and so, hopefully safe :unsure: ), it really freaked him out, and he's never been the same about safety and stuff since. Everything that there is any doubt about the safety of is a potential threat.

It is surely one of the saddest events in human history, and we MUST learn the lessons of Chernobyl, and forever remember the victims :sad:

Almalyk
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:22 AM
Huge tragedy. I wrote my thesis on this at university. It's a very emotional subject. The Ukraine is so unlucky, but Belarus even more so. The wind direction took radioactive matter through Belarus because Chernobyl was located near the border. If the wind had been blowing in the other direction (towards Kiev) the human health effects could have been much greater. :( :tears:

Pszczelny
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:25 AM
when I was 4, I remember I had to drink Lugol's iodine because of that :tape:

10.5 milion children in Poland had to do that

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:26 AM
Huge tragedy. I wrote my thesis on this at university. It's a very emotional subject. The Ukraine is so unlucky, but Belarus even more so. The wind direction took radioactive matter through Belarus because Chernobyl was located near the border. If the wind had been blowing in the other direction (towards Kiev) the human health effects could have been much greater. :( :tears:

Yes, indeed

Here's an animation of the cloud, which is not the only contamination Belarus got.
http://www.jaeri.go.jp/~speedi/images/speedi2.mpg

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:29 AM
when I was 4, I remember I had to drink Lugol's iodine because of that :tape:

10.5 milion children in Poland had to do that

Did the Polish authorities say something about the problem? :eek:

We didn't know, we didn't take iode. My aunt's husband was listening to Free Europe and it was him who told us, until the authorities recieved orders to say something no one knew. Afterwards it was too late for iode.

Pszczelny
Apr 26th, 2006, 09:42 AM
Did the Polish authorities say something about the problem? :eek:

We didn't know, we didn't take iode. My aunt's husband was listening to Free Europe and it was him who told us, until the authorities recieved orders to say something no one knew. Afterwards it was too late for iode.

it was the first time Polish authorities did something despite soviet ban, when Soviet Union kept quiet about Czarnobyl, Poland made an action with Lugol's iodine to protect their own citizens (this made SU very angry)

SilK
Apr 26th, 2006, 10:06 AM
Doesn't it shock you how many young people of our generation know so little about this. I mean, sure, we all were really young when it happened. But it's something that happened during out lifetime. We should all at least KNOW what happaned, etc?

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 10:16 AM
it was the first time Polish authorities did something despite soviet ban, when Soviet Union kept quiet about Czarnobyl, Poland made an action with Lugol's iodine to protect their own citizens (this made SU very angry)

Wow, this is really lucky for the Polish people. Good news.

Doesn't it shock you how many young people of our generation know so little about this. I mean, sure, we all were really young when it happened. But it's something that happened during out lifetime. We should all at least KNOW what happaned, etc?

Well, I think people know more about Chernobyl than the general knowledge of what happened during the whole Iron curtain.

adam_ads_n
Apr 26th, 2006, 10:27 AM
I was born 5 days after that. Fortunately I'm ok, but lots of children from this time have serious diseases now :(

Libertango
Apr 26th, 2006, 10:30 AM
OK. I'm gonna put my hands up. I know little about Chernobyl. :sad: I know the outline and the basics but can someone please give me more details. I was -3 when it happened.

SilK
Apr 26th, 2006, 10:37 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/cherlinks.html

Here is a site worth reading. It's writen by a young woman going quite often in the Dead Zone (pictures inside)

really good website. thanks for the link.

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 10:40 AM
OK. I'm gonna put my hands up. I know little about Chernobyl. :sad: I know the outline and the basics but can someone please give me more details. I was -3 when it happened.

http://www.chernobyl.info/index.php?userhash=13273886&navID=158&lID=2

This is quite good as explanation and it's not too long.

gentenaire
Apr 26th, 2006, 10:57 AM
My electricity prof at Uni is convinced the safety rods were drawn up so they could make plutonium (to make nuclear bombs), not because they were doing an experiment on low power which is the official explanation.
Considering it took so long for the Russians to admit something had happened, it makes sense.

Ceze
Apr 26th, 2006, 11:00 AM
:sad:

azdaja
Apr 26th, 2006, 11:01 AM
this wasn't really the biggest nuclear tragedy though - hiroshima and nagasaki were worse obviously.

every nuclear power plant is potentionally dangerous. and there are too many of them everywhere.

Libertango
Apr 26th, 2006, 11:06 AM
this wasn't really the biggest nuclear tragedy though - hiroshima and nagasaki were worse obviously.

every nuclear power plant is potentionally dangerous. and there are too many of them everywhere.

I just read a wikipedia article, and it said that the Chernobyl accident released over 400 times *more* radiation than Hiroshima! Either way, BOTH of these incidents were tragedies that should not have happened.

Ceze
Apr 26th, 2006, 11:07 AM
Yes, indeed

Here's an animation of the cloud, which is not the only contamination Belarus got.
http://www.jaeri.go.jp/~speedi/images/speedi2.mpgNo particular measures had been taken in France at that time because the authorities said that the cloud stopped on the borders :tape:

gentenaire
Apr 26th, 2006, 11:09 AM
every nuclear power plant is potentionally dangerous. and there are too many of them everywhere.

Some plants are safer than others though.

Chernobyl was a plant with only two water circuits (most nuclear power plants have three), it had no concrete dome over the reactor, the safety rods were drawn up (something that's impossible in most plants), there were many design flaws with the Chernobyl reactor.

Very few know that there have been other accidents, but because there were no negative effects, very few have heard about them, whereas I feel it should have been brought to light to prove that when accidents happen in better designed plants, there are no disastrous results.

As long as there is no alternative, I'm all for nuclear energy.

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 11:12 AM
No particular measures had been taken in France at that time because the authorities said that the cloud stopped on the borders :tape:

Oh yeah, I remember I saw the reportage of a woman-journalist on the bridge between France (Strasbourg) and Germany. :o

azdaja
Apr 26th, 2006, 11:15 AM
I just read a wikipedia article, and it said that the Chernobyl accident released over 400 times *more* radiation than Hiroshima! Either way, BOTH of these incidents were tragedies that should not have happened.
i think you will know which incident caused more life loss and destruction though. otherwise you are right.

Some plants are safer than others though.

i know.

i don't know what to think about nuclear energy. austrian people rejected it at a referendum after a nuclear plant was built. it still stands there, it was never activated.

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 11:17 AM
this wasn't really the biggest nuclear tragedy though - hiroshima and nagasaki were worse obviously.

every nuclear power plant is potentionally dangerous. and there are too many of them everywhere.

I don't want to measure in human suffering, I use the measerment of the radiation and Chernobyl is the worst.

And even after this, I am a pro-nuclear plants. As genitaire said, there are different types of reactors and different type of safety. There are incidents but the new reactors have mutiple levels of safety structures.

John A Roark
Apr 26th, 2006, 12:21 PM
I just read a wikipedia article, and it said that the Chernobyl accident released over 400 times *more* radiation than Hiroshima! Either way, BOTH of these incidents were tragedies that should not have happened.
Better stay away from that whole line of thought, kid.
Fourteen years of premeditated rape, murder and systematic oppression led to those two days in August that finally ended the "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere."
But of course, there are so many out there who conveniently forget all the facts surrounding those times.
Keep your revisionism to yourself.

Beefy
Apr 26th, 2006, 12:27 PM
It's really hard to forget about what happened that day, and no matter how many books or TV shows you see about it, you still just can't help but pinch yourself and ask "did this really happen?" It's a real shame that still so many people are being effected by it, and that the Soviet Government took so long to do something

Libertango
Apr 26th, 2006, 01:09 PM
Better stay away from that whole line of thought, kid.
Fourteen years of premeditated rape, murder and systematic oppression led to those two days in August that finally ended the "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere."
But of course, there are so many out there who conveniently forget all the facts surrounding those times.
Keep your revisionism to yourself.

I wasn't really saying anything, I was just quoting an article. Like i've already said in this thread, I know little of the Chernobyl incident, and I'm trying to educate myself. :)

tennislover
Apr 26th, 2006, 01:25 PM
:sad: :sad: :sad:

alfonsojose
Apr 26th, 2006, 01:55 PM
:sad:

griffin
Apr 26th, 2006, 02:22 PM
My electricity prof at Uni is convinced the safety rods were drawn up so they could make plutonium (to make nuclear bombs), not because they were doing an experiment on low power which is the official explanation.
Considering it took so long for the Russians to admit something had happened, it makes sense.

Given that the Russians, even now, are slow admit problems and ask for help (remember the Kursk?), they could just have easily been silent for not other reason than it's what they do.

Not that authorities in the US are that forthright, either. I went to college in a town fairly close to 3-Mile Island. Years after that " incedent" there was still a lot of bitterness over the lack of information and the way some agencies minimized or denied the risks people in the area were facing.

We should never forget the horror of Chernobyl, or that the horror is still unfolding for many of its victims.

Hulet
Apr 26th, 2006, 02:50 PM
20 years ago, I was outside picking flowers and making tea of them, while a strange cloud had just rained over the field. While I have nothing (cross fingers), thousands and thousand of people suffer from this:

http://www.1986-2006.com/

My thoughts go to every victim of the biggest N-tragedy and especially to the Ukrainian people.

And let the responsibles of not telling us the truth burn in hell :fiery:

http://www.ozodi.org/images/photo/img_header.jpg

http://www.ozodi.org/images/photo/UKRAINE-CHERNOBYL-MEMORI-36.jpg :sad:
It's sad what happened at Chernobyl but classifying this as the "biggest N-tragedy" is taking it too far.

azdaja
Apr 26th, 2006, 02:51 PM
Better stay away from that whole line of thought, kid.
Fourteen years of premeditated rape, murder and systematic oppression led to those two days in August that finally ended the "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere."
But of course, there are so many out there who conveniently forget all the facts surrounding those times.
Keep your revisionism to yourself.
that's off-topic and shouldn't be discussed here, but whatever happened back then does not justify the use of that barbaric weapon. i know there are different opinions on this, but that's mine.

Ferosh
Apr 26th, 2006, 02:53 PM
Make sure you watch "Chernobyl Heart" if you have not seen it already.

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:00 PM
It's sad what happened at Chernobyl but classifying this as the "biggest N-tragedy" is taking it too far.

If this was in another thread, I'd pick you up to argument this. But if this is SO important to you, I edited my post :rolleyes:

John A Roark
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:01 PM
I wasn't really saying anything, I was just quoting an article. Like i've already said in this thread, I know little of the Chernobyl incident, and I'm trying to educate myself. :)
"Both of these incidents were tragedies that should not have happened." That's definitely saying something.

To equate Chernobyl with the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs is a mistake on several levels:
1) Chernobyl wasn't a response to anything; rather, it was the ill-conceived fruit of playing with a fire that will too easily burn. Nuclear power is the future--don't ever doubt that. But nuclear power is a far more dangerous servant than fire, and much less forgiving.
2) The bombs were indeed a response, to fourteen years of pain and suffering inflicted on the Eastern Hemisphere by the Japanese. They were the least costly response the United States could make, and there can never be any justification for suggesting that we should have responded in a way that was going to cost us more, i.e: Operation Typhoon, the projected invasion of the home islands. Better several thousand Japanese dead, since it was going to happen anyway, than several million combined Japanese, American, and other national casualties.

Better the Japanese should have forsworn their militaristic tendencies and chosen to live in peace with their neighbors, of course. Better all nations should.
But given their course of action, was it a mistake to have opposed them? Was it just to have resisted their oppession and their pattern of conquest? Or should we have consistently denied any responsibility for stopping said patterns?

One should not indulge in hindsight when addressing historical events. We know now the awful consequences of nuclear warfare. They did not know the full extent of said conflict, then. Because of what we know, it is unlikely that any enlightened culture will ever contemplate the use of nuclear weapons again. The semi-barbaric perhaps may, but that is an issue to look at when it arrives.

It was indeed the semi-barbaric nature of the Soviet bloc that contributed to the mishandling and deception surrounding Chernobyl. But the people affected by Chernobyl were innocents, not responsible for bringing on the nuclear holocaust that has left such scars. That is a tragedy; the bombs were indeed horrible, but they were not a tragedy. They were the fruit that fell from the tree the Japanese planted on September 18, 1931 near Mukden.

Hulet
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:02 PM
If this was in another thread, I'd pick you up to argument this. But if this is SO important to you, I edited my post :rolleyes:
Apologies, I didn't do that to offend you.

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:07 PM
Apologies, I didn't do that to offend you.

You didn't offend me. It's just I don't want to turn this into overcalling of which tragedy is bigger.

*I am reacting very emotionally right now and I may overreact to some post, so pls take note of this :wavey:

Ferosh
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:09 PM
You didn't offend me. It's just I don't want to turn this into overcalling of which tragedy is bigger.

*I am reacting very emotionally right now and I may overreact to some post, so pls take note of this :wavey:

:hug:

azdaja
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:13 PM
Because of what we know, it is unlikely that any enlightened culture will ever contemplate the use of nuclear weapons again.
this is very naive as is most of what you posted. the danger of nuclear war is today much greater than while the soviet union existed. but again, that's so off-topic it should be discussed on another thread.

John A Roark
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:16 PM
this is very naive as is most of what you posted. the danger of nuclear war is today much greater than while the soviet union existed.
Then why in all the time since '45 have there been no incidents? And how like you to overlook the qualifiers--I said no enlightened people contemplate such a thing. The semi-barbaric are the danger. And they can be held in check.
Call names elsewhere, bubba.

SloKid
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:19 PM
:sad:
A tragedy indeed and it affected people's lifes for years after it happened and it still does.

every nuclear power plant is potentionally dangerous. and there are too many of them everywhere.
We have one in Slovenia...:unsure:

azdaja
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:25 PM
Then why in all the time since '45 have there been no incidents? And how like you to overlook the qualifiers--I said no enlightened people contemplate such a thing. The semi-barbaric are the danger. And they can be held in check.
Call names elsewhere, bubba.
a few weeks ago it was all over the news that the united states government contemplates precisely that.

i won't call any names, though. i've seen enough of your posts to know that for you barbarism is something that other people do, your home team is just cool.

griffin
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:46 PM
I believe this was intended as a memorial thread, if you wish to pursue other arguments, kindly do so elsewhere.

Thanks.

Libertango
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Then why in all the time since '45 have there been no incidents? And how like you to overlook the qualifiers--I said no enlightened people contemplate such a thing. The semi-barbaric are the danger. And they can be held in check.
Call names elsewhere, bubba.

You frighten me.

I have a feeling, too, that our ideas of who is "semi-barbaric", as you put it, or not, are pretty different.....;)

Also, I wasn't comparing Hiroshima to Chernobyl. I was merely saying that more radiation was leaked from Chernobyl. That's it. And I still think that both were tragedies that shouldn't have happened. It's still my opinion, despite your post trying to tell me otherwise.

*Anyway*, lets keep this thread on the memory of the terrible events of twenty years ago, hoping they are never repeated. :sad:

......oh and don't call me kid! :kiss:

RR-87
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:54 PM
It happend when my mom was pregnant, so she had to move far from this place to give me a birth in healthy enviroment.
I'm so sad for all people who died or became unable to move, think and see. :sad:

John A Roark
Apr 26th, 2006, 03:57 PM
You frighten me.

I have a feeling, too, that our ideas of who is "semi-barbaric", as you put it, or not, are pretty different.....;)

Also, I wasn't comparing Hiroshima to Chernobyl. I was merely saying that more radiation was leaked from Chernobyl. That's it. And I still think that both were tragedies that shouldn't have happened. It's still my opinion, despite your post trying to tell me otherwise.

*Anyway*, lets keep this thread on the memory of the terrible events of twenty years ago, hoping they are never repeated. :sad:

......oh and don't call me kid! :kiss:
Inflamed passions, so sorry, I tend to preach.
The 'kid' comment was out of line--my humblest apologies.

PointBlank
Apr 26th, 2006, 04:02 PM
I dont blame the people for what happened really. It was a mistake and I dont think saying they should burn in hell is right at all.

I do know people who have suffered illnesses because of the accient. Even in Kiev they got it bad, and I was born there 4 years after, but the affects were still bad. My mom said alot of the hospital had affected babies because some of the people around there moved into the city after the accident.

It is a very sad thing to remember.

pla
Apr 26th, 2006, 04:08 PM
I dont blame the people for what happened really. It was a mistake and I dont think saying they should burn in hell is right at all.

I said those resposible for not telling the truth should burn in hell. It's not known what exactly happened so I will never accuse the people who worked in the plant.

I do know people who have suffered illnesses because of the accient. Even in Kiev they got it bad, and I was born there 4 years after, but the affects were still bad. My mom said alot of the hospital had affected babies because some of the people around there moved into the city after the accident.

It is a very sad thing to remember.

We had a familly friend, a Ukrainian atomic engineer married to a Bulgarian man. She was in Kyev with their child at that time and she said the Soviet authorities refused that she goes out of the city. I don't know if it was only for her, givven her profession or it was for all the people living in Kiev at that time. Can you ask your parents for details, if they know something..

Yasmine
Apr 26th, 2006, 04:19 PM
No particular measures had been taken in France at that time because the authorities said that the cloud stopped on the borders :tape:
yes of course it's well known us the french live in a kind of bubble and nothing can actually touch us... what a bunch of idiots at the time! :rolleyes:

very :sad: :sad: :sad: moment but certainly not to be forgotten

Yasmine
Apr 26th, 2006, 04:21 PM
As silly as it seems but just look now around you about thyroid problems... and having talked about it to many friends/family of my parents generation particularly it's scary... I wonder if they actually will ever make a link with what happened in Chernobyl then.

Dexter
Apr 26th, 2006, 04:22 PM
I was born exactly one month after that tragedy happened.

R.I.P. for all Czarnobyl-victims :sad:

BUBI
Apr 26th, 2006, 04:29 PM
And let the responsibles of not telling us the truth burn in hell :fiery:


Gorbachev is still lying about it! What a moron :fiery:

"The Politburo did not immediately have appropriate information that accurately reflected the situation after the explosion. Nevertheless, it was the general consensus of the Politburo that we should openly deliver the information upon receiving it. "


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1617303/posts

PointBlank
Apr 26th, 2006, 04:34 PM
We had a familly friend, a Ukrainian atomic engineer married to a Bulgarian man. She was in Kyev with their child at that time and she said the Soviet authorities refused that she goes out of the city. I don't know if it was only for her, givven her profession or it was for all the people living in Kiev at that time. Can you ask your parents for details, if they know something..

When it happened they were living a little outside Moscow in Serpukhov or in that area, so they werent in Ukraine at the time. They moved there 2 years after because of my dads new job they made him move.

PointBlank
Apr 26th, 2006, 04:36 PM
The saddest part now is that mothers who take a look at their children or see their children progress at a mentally retarded condition usually just leave them for dead. Orphanges in Ukraine/Belarus are filled with kids who have been affected by the accident.

Belmont Lad
Apr 26th, 2006, 05:19 PM
Make sure you watch "Chernobyl Heart" if you have not seen it already.

Dementrova is so right, see the film if you can. You cannot help but weep when you watch this documentary. Here's some info on it

-----------------------------------------------------------------

On April 26, 1986, the worst nuclear accident in history occurred when a reactor exploded at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in Ukraine, releasing 90 times the radioactivity of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Sixteen years later, award-winning filmmaker Maryann De Leo took her camera to ground zero, following the devastating trail radiation leaves behind in hospitals, orphanages, mental asylums and evacuated villages. The Academy Award®-winning documentary short debuts immediately after the America Undercover special "Indian Point: Imagining the Unimaginable".

Following Adi Roche, founder of Ireland's Chernobyl Children's Project, CHERNOBYL HEART opens in the exclusion zone, the most radioactive environment on earth. From there, Roche travels to Belarus, home to many of the children she seeks to aid. The film reveals those hardest hit by radiation, including thyroid cancer patients and children suffering from unfathomable congenital birth and heart defects.

Despite the fact that 99% of Belarus is contaminated with radioactive material, many people refuse to leave their homes behind. Asked why he would not move, the father of a radiation victim replies, "To leave the motherland where you were born and raised, where your soul is connected to the earth - I would not want to. To move to a new place is difficult, especially in terms of a job in Belarus and abroad."

In Belarus, only 15-20% of babies are born healthy. Roche comforts children who are born with multiple holes in their heart, a condition known in Belarus as "Chernobyl heart." A lucky few will have their heart problems fixed by Dr. William Novick, who heads the International Children's Heart Foundation, a non-profit organization dedicated to helping children with congenital or acquired heart disease in developing countries throughout the world. After saving the life of a young girl suffering from Chernobyl heart and being humbled by her parents' gratitude, Dr. Novick affirms, "I appreciate this is a bit of a miracle for them...but we have a certain responsibility to these kids."

The Chernobyl Children's Project has increased the quality of life for thousands of young girls and boys from the heart of the "Chernobyl zone." Since its establishment in 1991, the project has sent more than 30 million euros in aid to the Chernobyl region, and has brought more than 10,000 children to Ireland on recuperative holidays.

gentenaire
Apr 26th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Given that the Russians, even now, are slow admit problems and ask for help (remember the Kursk?), they could just have easily been silent for not other reason than it's what they do.

Not that authorities in the US are that forthright, either. I went to college in a town fairly close to 3-Mile Island. Years after that " incedent" there was still a lot of bitterness over the lack of information and the way some agencies minimized or denied the risks people in the area were facing.

We should never forget the horror of Chernobyl, or that the horror is still unfolding for many of its victims.

True. It's just another conspiracy theory, after all. But I feel it's not as far fetched as most other conspiracy theories, considering the circumstances. But there's no way to know.