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View Full Version : Katie (Holmes)'s code of silence for baby's birth


drake3781
Mar 29th, 2006, 05:07 AM
TOM Cruise's partner, Katie Holmes, will be silent while delivering their child, obeying the strict rules of Scientology.

The actor will have to be quiet because followers of the religion believe the baby can be traumatised by hearing its mother's screams or groans.
Holmes, 26, will also have to refuse painkillers and can expect few words of comfort because those at the birth are also expected to be quiet. But she can turn to large "instructional" boards delivered by friends.

One reads: "Be silent and make all physical movements slow and understandable."

Any nerves before the birth, which is expected in the next few days, were well hidden by a smiling Miss Holmes as she took an evening stroll outside the Beverly Hills mansion of her 43-year-old fiance.

She had spent the day at the Scientology centre in Hollywood with her mother Kathleen and Cruise's mother Mary Lee for her baby shower.


http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,18638461%255E2902,00.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=381249&in_page_id=1773

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 29th, 2006, 05:37 AM
You know in the rarity that I happen to have an 8 pound fetus coming out of my birth canal, I would like to scream.
I would probably enjoy some drugs as well.
A board that read "Be silent and make all physical movements slow and understanding" wouldn't do it for me.
Breaking a board that said "Be silent and make all physical movements slow and understanding" would.
Even if the baby hears me, later in life I will tell the kid, I had your 8 pound ass coming out of me, it wasn't the painless of experiences.
This is why I feel Scientology (the church of celebrities) is a bunch of bullshyt.

PamShriverRockz
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:07 AM
:eek: :speakles:

Kunal
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:12 AM
i feel so sorry for her....

she was so nice before she was cruised

Kunal
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:13 AM
Cruisified

PamShriverRockz
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:28 AM
How the hell is it possible to be silent giving birth?! :eek:

Nicjac
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:48 AM
Well, so the mother will be traumatised. And she won't get any drugs against postnatal depression either. Just some vitamins and a babbling husband telling her how to feel.

This makes me so angry. :mad:

Hagar
Mar 29th, 2006, 07:41 AM
Well, the fact that Tom Cruise belongs to a sect who has such crazy rules, proves that he is a lunatic.

This whole relationship and the pregnancy are strange. He's twice in a long term relationship but unable to make his wife pregnant. And now all of a sudden it worked?

Beat
Mar 29th, 2006, 08:15 AM
fucked up.
is the baby allowed to scream when it's born? :tape:
was katie holmes brainwashed or something? why would a sane, young, healthy woman say yes to such a procedure?

*abby*
Mar 29th, 2006, 09:42 AM
stupid.stupid.stupid.stupid.stupid.stupid.stupid.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

*abby*
Mar 29th, 2006, 09:43 AM
oh and another thing...what will hapen to her if she isnt silent, if she has to let out a scream?will she be punished? :shrug:

Jackson.
Mar 29th, 2006, 09:57 AM
:speakles:

PamShriverRockz
Mar 29th, 2006, 10:59 AM
oh and another thing...what will hapen to her if she isnt silent, if she has to let out a scream?will she be punished? :shrug:

I wondered this. Maybe he'd make her watch all his films...

Seriously, this is just crazy! I feel sorry for Katie.

flyingmachine
Mar 29th, 2006, 01:52 PM
:retard:

Beat
Mar 29th, 2006, 02:29 PM
Maybe he'd make her watch all his films...

:lol: oh, the torture.

CondiLicious
Mar 29th, 2006, 04:06 PM
oh and another thing...what will hapen to her if she isnt silent, if she has to let out a scream?will she be punished? :shrug:

Yeah, that's what I was worried about.

However, I'm not one of the people that is all "Free Katie" and "It's a shame he brainwashed her". It's her life and it's her own fault if she lets him and his crazy beliefs control her.

SelesFan70
Mar 29th, 2006, 04:07 PM
And yet her husband is on Oprah's set screaming and acting a damn fool.. :rolleyes:

Hulet
Mar 29th, 2006, 04:52 PM
One reads: "Be silent and make all physical movements slow and understandable."

Not a bad rule as far as pain managment goes. Based on my experience with numerous physical pain, to relieve a pain (without painkillers available) it's a good idea to attempt to swallow the urge to scream as it acts as a kind of distraction from the actual pain.

Kart
Mar 29th, 2006, 04:53 PM
I can't sympathise with her any more.

She's clearly as mad as he is.

beauty_is_pink
Mar 29th, 2006, 05:07 PM
wtf, can someone please knock some sense into Katie?

oh Katie... you use to be so SANE.

nicky
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:14 PM
Well, after a first (animal-like)scream when giving birth, my gynacologist almost literally said "shut up and push. Don't waist your breath on screaming, you need it to push harder." I didn't dare to scream anymore ;) but I cannot say I was silent either :p (I didn't have any painkillers).


Anyway, the rule "Be silent and make all physical movements slow and understanding" could only be invented by a man :rolleyes: - that's absolutely impossible...

volta
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:37 PM
he has lost it :rolleyes: since she cant scream i say put him in her side of the bed and crush his balls everytime she has to do some strengh and lets see if he likes the pain 2 and if he can handle it without screaming :rolleyes: n one would think that he would become so pathetic :o

Helen Lawson
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:52 PM
Is it just me, or has she been pregnant for like a year now?

Goofs! They deserve each other.

saniafan2005
Mar 29th, 2006, 07:04 PM
this is what I hate? I mean tom can follow whatever he wants but why he is forcing her to follow the same rules???

drake3781
Mar 29th, 2006, 11:25 PM
this is what I hate? I mean tom can follow whatever he wants but why he is forcing her to follow the same rules???

Right,,, for example, did he offer to conver to *her* religion? And even if she had none did he offer to be nonreligious with her?

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 12:25 AM
I'm sorry I must of missed that gun Tom had to Katie's head when he made her adopt Scientology or signs of the ligature marks on her wrist from being tied down during her brainwashing sessions? :shrug:

It's her choice and there are plenty of people who believe stuff that I feel is weird and would never do....so what? :shrug: For example being a Vegan. I think that's flat out nutty but that's just my opinion on it that's why I'm not one.

They believe in Scientology that's why they belong to the church if you believe too then join if you don't then don't join.

Katie is no damsel in distress she is more than capable of making a decision on her own and she has she chooses pain and silence. :shrug: It's funny because most of you are mad at Tom for *making her do stuff* when in reality you're just mad cause she's not living her life like you think she should and I'm just wondering how is that any different than what y'all are mad at Tom for? :scratch: :lol:

Mother_Marjorie
Mar 30th, 2006, 03:58 AM
What a bunch of fucking weirdos :cuckoo:

Attempting to take one of natures most intimate moments and silence it.

I say they should make Tom Cruise take one of his dildos and pull it through his penis and tell him not to scream.

Idiots.

hablo
Mar 30th, 2006, 04:01 AM
I can't believe Katie is going along with this :tape:

decemberlove
Mar 30th, 2006, 04:32 AM
It's supposedly not true. The mother is allowed to make whatever noise she wants - though she may be advised against it. It's the others in the room who are not allowed to speak, at all.

SAEKeithSerena
Mar 30th, 2006, 04:54 AM
this girl is looking sooooo pregnant. it like hurts me to even look at pictures lol

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 04:58 AM
It's supposedly not true. The mother is allowed to make whatever noise she wants - though she may be advised against it. It's the others in the room who are not allowed to speak, at all.

dlove don't come in here with facts. :lol: I kind of like the idea of a woman trying to be quiet while giving birth and all her fans slitting their wrists (figuratively) over it. :lol:

ceiling_fan
Mar 30th, 2006, 05:46 AM
is that even possible?

she would implode

Come-on-kim
Mar 30th, 2006, 05:57 AM
Gosh! "thanks" to this thread I've dreamt last night that my boyfriend was dumping me because he was the father of Katie's child!

drake3781
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:03 AM
It's supposedly not true. The mother is allowed to make whatever noise she wants - though she may be advised against it. It's the others in the room who are not allowed to speak, at all.


Here is a decent article about it, and i read another one from a Scientologist... they ask the doctors and nurses to refrain from unnecesary talking, and L. Ron Hubbard does not say that the woman cannot make noise, but many aspire for silence and no use of painkillers as an ideal.

And if the woman does make noise, there is follow-up counseling for her by the church called "auditing" to help them deal with the fact that they were not quiet as expected.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Entertainment/story?id=1209230&gma=true

Basically the Scientology teachers make strong recommendatinons against the mother making noise or using painkillers, but they do not forbid it, and say that damage done by these things can be reversed.

Here's more from a Chicago Tribune article that is no longer online (bold is added by me):

But is "Quit yellin', it's only childbirth," as the News headline so succinctly put it, the true position of the Church of Scientology, of which Cruise is a member?

Not according to Greg LaClaire, vice president of the Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles. Ideally, the mother is "as silent as humanly possible," LaClaire says, but this is an option, not a requirement, and the church recognizes that "absolute silence is not obtainable."

Similarly, painkillers are believed to make you more likely to absorb trauma and pain in an unhealthy way.

That said, LaClaire emphasizes that "all of this is done at the discretion of the mother and her doctor" and that, according to the teachings of of Scientology, any damage done by noise during birth can be reversed.

Nicjac
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:07 AM
It's supposedly not true. The mother is allowed to make whatever noise she wants - though she may be advised against it. It's the others in the room who are not allowed to speak, at all.

No, Scientology expects mothers to be silent during birth.

And taking away social support from women giving birth is another horrific thing to do.

PamShriverRockz
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:09 AM
I know katie is a grown woman and can make her own decisions etc. but you can't always be sure that is true...One of my friends stayed with an abusive guy for years, because he had this bizarre control over her...some of our friends had this "well she's a grown woman, she can leave" attitude but it really wasn't that simple.

Not that I'm saying Tom is abusive etc. but it's not always as simple as "she can make her own mind".

Either way good luck to Katie.

Nicjac
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:14 AM
dlove don't come in here with facts. :lol: I kind of like the idea of a woman trying to be quiet while giving birth and all her fans slitting their wrists (figuratively) over it. :lol:

What's wrong with you lately? :confused:

I am quite confused that you approve of giving women a hard time and express delight in watching others suffer (figuratively).

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:15 AM
I know katie is a grown woman and can make her own decisions etc. but you can't always be sure that is true...One of my friends stayed with an abusive guy for years, because he had this bizarre control over her...some of our friends had this "well she's a grown woman, she can leave" attitude but it really wasn't that simple.

Not that I'm saying Tom is abusive etc. but it's not always as simple as "she can make her own mind".

Either way good luck to Katie.

It's true it's possible she's abused but there is little to no evidence of that and many many many examples of women who change their religion to get married to just any ole man much less a successful millionaire. :shrug:

decemberlove
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:22 AM
Here is a decent article about it, and i read another one from a Scientologist... they ask the doctors and nurses to refrain from unnecesary talking, and L. Ron Hubbard does not say that the woman cannot make noise, but many aspire for silence and no use of painkillers as an ideal.

And if the woman does make noise, there is follow-up counseling for her by the church called "auditing" to help them deal with the fact that they were not quiet as expected.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Entertainment/story?id=1209230&gma=true

Basically the Scientology teachers make strong recommendatinons against the mother making noise or using painkillers, but they do not forbid it, and say that damage done by these things can be reversed.

Here's more from a Chicago Tribune article that is no longer online (bold is added by me):

But is "Quit yellin', it's only childbirth," as the News headline so succinctly put it, the true position of the Church of Scientology, of which Cruise is a member?

Not according to Greg LaClaire, vice president of the Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles. Ideally, the mother is "as silent as humanly possible," LaClaire says, but this is an option, not a requirement, and the church recognizes that "absolute silence is not obtainable."

Similarly, painkillers are believed to make you more likely to absorb trauma and pain in an unhealthy way.

That said, LaClaire emphasizes that "all of this is done at the discretion of the mother and her doctor" and that, according to the teachings of of Scientology, any damage done by noise during birth can be reversed.

I know all of these things. My boyfriend is a Scientologist. Oh yes, he is a very evil man, and he corrupts my poor little brain.

This basically says exactly what I said. They aren't going to gag Katie. I am with Rockie here. I think far too many people have this Dawson's Creek image of Katie in their heads. Joey was only a character.

There are many women out there who choose to go with a natural childbirth. Why is this so upsetting to some people?

Nothing is required - it's all just recommended.

PamShriverRockz
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:22 AM
It's true it's possible she's abused but there is little to no evidence of that and many many many examples of women who change their religion to get married to just any ole man much less a successful millionaire. :shrug:

Not necessarily physically abused. Mental abuse can be just as harmful, and less obvious to detect!

Again we don't know the full story, so I just wish Katie all the best and I hope she's happy!

decemberlove
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:23 AM
No, Scientology expects mothers to be silent during birth.

And taking away social support from women giving birth is another horrific thing to do.

No, it doesn't. Mothers-to-be that are Scientologists aren't hauled away into some special hospital. They choose to give birth whichever way they desire.

Not all support is vocal, either.

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:27 AM
What's wrong with you lately? :confused:

I am quite confused that you approve of giving women a hard time and express delight in watching others suffer (figuratively).

because a lot of people in this thread are acting like Katie is some brain dead retard who isn't willingly doing everything she's doing because she wants to. There's a big difference between not agreeing with the Scientology and thinking the fact that someone is choosing to follow it is the fault of some evil plot by her fiance. It's over the top. That's the point I was making. The reaction is way over the top. I didn't for once think she was going to be quiet while she was giving childbirth and I don't know why anyone would but if she's crazy enough to try it's no ones fault but her own.

Now there are many crazy things that people in this world follow and do in the name of religion....I do not hold Scientology's quirks in any higher or lower esteem than any of the others. If people were getting on the practice that would be one thing but people are basically accusing her of being brainwashed and incapable of choosing to do this on her own free will and upset that she may be doing this to please her man. Oh the horror, I mean it must be Tom's fault because women don't do that on an every day basis? :confused:

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:31 AM
Not necessarily physically abused. Mental abuse can be just as harmful, and less obvious to detect!

Again we don't know the full story, so I just wish Katie all the best and I hope she's happy!

sure mental abuse is just as bad but there's no proof of mental abuse either. :shrug:

People don't like Tom and that I understand he's done weird things but there's nothing I remember that could be looked at as abusive to Katie or have I missed something? :confused:

hablo
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:31 AM
There are many women out there who choose to go with a natural childbirth. Why is this so upsetting to some people?


There is nothing natural about not screaming during childbirth :p

I mean it's painful to give birth usually no ? :lol::shrug:

Nicjac
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:41 AM
No, it doesn't. Mothers-to-be that are Scientologists aren't hauled away into some special hospital. They choose to give birth whichever way they desire.

Not all support is vocal, either.

I wrote "expect", not force.

And believe me, unsure eye-contact or helpless shoulder shrugging while watching someone suffering a LOT of pain without painkillers, or any other more helpful means of non-vocal or semi-vocal social support will NOT have the same helpfulness as the words one could utter.

She is giving birth for the first time for crying out loud - give her some support :mad:

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:52 AM
I know all of these things. My boyfriend is a Scientologist. Oh yes, he is a very evil man, and he corrupts my poor little brain.

This basically says exactly what I said. They aren't going to gag Katie. I am with Rockie here. I think far too many people have this Dawson's Creek image of Katie in their heads. Joey was only a character.

There are many women out there who choose to go with a natural childbirth. Why is this so upsetting to some people?

Nothing is required - it's all just recommended.

It kinds of reminds me how people question Jehovah's Witnesses everytime they see Venus or Serena do something that they think JW's don't do. It's like any religion different people have different interpretations and nothing is black and white.

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:57 AM
I wrote "expect", not force.

And believe me, unsure eye-contact or helpless shoulder shrugging while watching someone suffering a LOT of pain without painkillers, or any other more helpful means of non-vocal or semi-vocal social support will NOT have the same helpfulness as the words one could utter.

She is giving birth for the first time for crying out loud - give her some support :mad:

most first time mothers from what I've seen are very idealistic...they think they can endure the pain because they've never been through it. Some women are lucky and their labor is very short. If the pain is too great she will scream and probably take drugs. I really don't think they'll make her suffer if she can't bear it. Her mother will be with her and I have no doubt that she will take care of her.

decemberlove
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:02 AM
I wrote "expect", not force.

And believe me, unsure eye-contact or helpless shoulder shrugging while watching someone suffering a LOT of pain without painkillers, or any other more helpful means of non-vocal or semi-vocal social support will NOT have the same helpfulness as the words one could utter.

She is giving birth for the first time for crying out loud - give her some support :mad:

They don't expect it, either. It's just what they recommend. Cruise is a very devoted Scientologist - most of them are not like him.

I don't know about that. What works for some doesn't work for everyone.

I am supporting her - by not assuming that she is a weak-minded child.

decemberlove
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:06 AM
It kinds of reminds me how people question Jehovah's Witnesses everytime they see Venus or Serena do something that they think JW's don't do. It's like any religion different people have different interpretations and nothing is black and white.

Exactly.

PamShriverRockz
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:06 AM
sure mental abuse is just as bad but there's no proof of mental abuse either. :shrug:

People don't like Tom and that I understand he's done weird things but there's nothing I remember that could be looked at as abusive to Katie or have I missed something? :confused:

I'm not saying he's necessarily being abusive ;) I'm just saying there are lots of different factors to take into account. I'm just saying it's not always a straight case of saying it's what she chooses. I hope it is though! Maybe she's manipulating him!? Who can say ;)

Mental abuse is not always easy to spot. People put on fronts and acts. Sometimes mental illnesses are not easy to spot to most people either. People hide it.

I don't care how Tom choices to live his life. That's up to him! My main gripe was when he publicly criticised Brooke Shields and the whole post-natal depression issue. Depression has enough stigma attached to it as it is :sad:

Nicjac
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:08 AM
because a lot of people in this thread are acting like Katie is some brain dead retard who isn't willingly doing everything she's doing because she wants to. There's a big difference between not agreeing with the Scientology and thinking the fact that someone is choosing to follow it is the fault of some evil plot by her fiance. It's over the top. That's the point I was making. The reaction is way over the top. I didn't for once think she was going to be quiet while she was giving childbirth and I don't know why anyone would but if she's crazy enough to try it's no ones fault but her own.

Now there are many crazy things that people in this world follow and do in the name of religion....I do not hold Scientology's quirks in any higher or lower esteem than any of the others. If people were getting on the practice that would be one thing but people are basically accusing her of being brainwashed and incapable of choosing to do this on her own free will and upset that she may be doing this to please her man. Oh the horror, I mean it must be Tom's fault because women don't do that on an every day basis? :confused:


So, you are saying that every person has the free will to do whatever he or she likes without being influenced by others or circumstances.

Could I live on your planet, please? ;)

People make stupid decisions every day because they are influenced by others, don't know better, are too young, have no experience, are dazzled by loads of money, and so on and on and on.

Katie Holmes, whom I have never seen on television (so my image is not blurred), is a young woman who never gave birth before and who attempts to try something unnatural and stupid. As a woman I get so mad at seeing these scientology people (including Tom Cruise) being able to - yes - force this upon her just because she wants to be one of them (identity-theory). Their wishes mean something to her even if they are out of their mind. And I do get angry at other religious believes.

Nicjac
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:15 AM
They don't expect it, either. It's just what they recommend. Cruise is a very devoted Scientologist - most of them are not like him.

I don't know about that. What works for some doesn't work for everyone.

I am supporting her - by not assuming that she is a weak-minded child.

Recommend = expect for devoted scientologists?

You are right - some are devoted, some are not, some try to influence others with their beliefs, some do not. I just wish Tom knows what the hell he "recommends" to his wife, because he doesn't have a fucking clue what she'll go through.

Wigglytuff
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:18 AM
TOM Cruise's partner, Katie Holmes, will be silent while delivering their child, obeying the strict rules of Scientology.

The actor will have to be quiet because followers of the religion believe the baby can be traumatised by hearing its mother's screams or groans.
Holmes, 26, will also have to refuse painkillers and can expect few words of comfort because those at the birth are also expected to be quiet. But she can turn to large "instructional" boards delivered by friends.

One reads: "Be silent and make all physical movements slow and understandable."

Any nerves before the birth, which is expected in the next few days, were well hidden by a smiling Miss Holmes as she took an evening stroll outside the Beverly Hills mansion of her 43-year-old fiance.

She had spent the day at the Scientology centre in Hollywood with her mother Kathleen and Cruise's mother Mary Lee for her baby shower.


http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,18638461%255E2902,00.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=381249&in_page_id=1773
two words:

these fucking scientology bastards are crazy as hell, fruity little club is right.

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:19 AM
I'm not saying he's necessarily being abusive ;) I'm just saying there are lots of different factors to take into account. I'm just saying it's not always a straight case of saying it's what she chooses. I hope it is though! Maybe she's manipulating him!? Who can say ;)

Mental abuse is not always easy to spot. People put on fronts and acts. Sometimes mental illnesses are not easy to spot to most people either. People hide it.

I don't care how Tom choices to live his life. That's up to him! My main gripe was when he publicly criticised Brooke Shields and the whole post-natal depression issue. Depression has enough stigma attached to it as it is :sad:

but any relationship has the potential to be abusive and we would never know. It's probably more likely the relationship everyone thinks is healthy. :o I just think to talk about abuse in relation to a relationship where there isn't any evidence of it is to kind of insinuate that it is more likely an abusive relationship when we really don't know.

Tom was flat out wrong for saying that about Brooke it was none of his business. However, he was giving his religious view on it. That's what they believe.....I don't believe it but they do. :shrug: That's what Katie is choosing to believe as well.

I think there are two debates....the merits of Scientology and whether or not Katie is choosing Scientology of her own free will.

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:28 AM
So, you are saying that every person has the free will to do whatever he or she likes without being influenced by others or circumstances.

Could I live on your planet, please? ;)

People make stupid decisions every day because they are influenced by others, don't know better, are too young, have no experience, are dazzled by loads of money, and so on and on and on.

Katie Holmes, whom I have never seen on television (so my image is not blurred), is a young woman who never gave birth before and who attempts to try something unnatural and stupid. As a woman I get so mad at seeing these scientology people (including Tom Cruise) being able to - yes - force this upon her just because she wants to be one of them (identity-theory). Their wishes mean something to her even if they are out of their mind. And I do get angry at other religious believes.

Like I said in another post every first time mother I've been around haven't a clue as to what they are going to go through. They hear theories and different practices and based on their opinions and not their life experience they all choose a path. My friend swore up and down she wasn't going to accept drugs because it does this or that to the baby but as soon as the pain hit she changed her mind. I just don't see any different with Katie the only difference is that she's choosing to follow the Scientology way as opposed to some other method she read in a book or a friend told her about.

I don't know much about Katie but why are we assuming she hasn't done her research and truly believes this is a healthy way for the baby? Would I do that....Hell to Naw but I don't believe....and apparently she does. What about Katie makes you believe that she's easily pressured into doing things that she doesn't want? Maybe she is....I don't know to be honest. It just seems everybody is so sure she's being manipulated into self-torture....what if she just truly believes? there are many women who do apparently.

Oh and everybody's opinions are influenced by other people, places, and things including the opinion that being silent during childbirth is a crazy, crazy concept. ;)

drake3781
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:28 AM
Here's another interesting one... says that Tom will not be allowed in the room, and Katie would have silence for several hours afterward (assuming that they follow the recommendations). I also read in another article that the baby should have one week of silence before anyone talks within his hearing. This ship is interesting, but I think Katie's family will have here there in Toledo.

Katie Holmes Contemplating Childbirth in a Scientology Ship?

http://www.sawf.org/newsphotos/hollywood/Scientology_ship_splashnews.jpg

Pregnant Katie Holmes could be planning to give birth to Tom Cruise's baby in a Scientology Ship called Freewinds. Insiders say Scientology devotee Tom Cruise is desperate for his baby to be born under strict rules set out by the religious sect. And he is thought to be pushing for Katie to give birth in a Scientology center - which could include one of the religion's specialist luxury cruise-liners.

As well as being a completely controlled environment, the main bonus for the celebrity couple would be privacy. "Tom's concerned that at a hospital someone might sneak into Katie's room and take pictures," said a source close to Katie's family.

Scientology expert Rick Ross said: "I think the birth will be on The Freewinds" - referring to Scientology's luxury cruise liner. Wherever it happens, if they stick strictly to Scientology rules Tom will not be allowed in the delivery room, the birth will have to be drug-free, and Katie will be surrounded by silence during the delivery and for several hours afterwards.

Insiders insist Katie's family are pushing for a regular hospital birth. "They'd feel more at peace with all the resources a hospital can provide," a source said. And friends say Katie is feeling "a lot of stress' over the birth. "She's doesn't know what to expect," the source said. "This is her first birth."

drake3781
Mar 30th, 2006, 07:49 AM
Here is one of the core beliefs of Scientology - Xenu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

"In Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu) is a galactic ruler (of the "Galactic Confederacy") who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to cause problems today. These events are known to Scientologists as "Incident II", and the traumatic memories associated with them as The Wall of Fire or the R6 implant. The story of Xenu is part of a much wider range of Scientology beliefs in extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in Earthly events, collectively described as space opera by L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology.

Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, famously warning that R6 was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it." The Xenu story was the start of the use of the volcano as a common symbol of Scientology and Dianetics from 1968 to the present day.

Much of the criticism of the Church of Scientology focuses on the story of Xenu. The Church has tried to keep Xenu confidential; critics claim revealing the story is in the public interest, given the high prices charged for OT III, part of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology" doctrines taught only to members that have already contributed large amounts of money to the organization.

The Church avoids making mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story's confidentiality, including legal action on the grounds of both copyright and trade secrecy. Despite this, much material on Xenu has leaked to the public."

(story continues at link above)

volta
Mar 30th, 2006, 08:57 AM
next time they gonna say they are waiting for a mothership to bing an alien to help Katie give birth :rolleyes:

Travolta is part of this religion 2 and u dont see him going crazy like this :o

volta
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:09 AM
Here's another interesting one... says that Tom will not be allowed in the room, and Katie would have silence for several hours afterward (assuming that they follow the recommendations). I also read in another article that the baby should have one week of silence before anyone talks within his hearing. This ship is interesting, but I think Katie's family will have here there in Toledo.

Katie Holmes Contemplating Childbirth in a Scientology Ship?

http://www.sawf.org/newsphotos/hollywood/Scientology_ship_splashnews.jpg

Pregnant Katie Holmes could be planning to give birth to Tom Cruise's baby in a Scientology Ship called Freewinds. Insiders say Scientology devotee Tom Cruise is desperate for his baby to be born under strict rules set out by the religious sect. And he is thought to be pushing for Katie to give birth in a Scientology center - which could include one of the religion's specialist luxury cruise-liners.

As well as being a completely controlled environment, the main bonus for the celebrity couple would be privacy. "Tom's concerned that at a hospital someone might sneak into Katie's room and take pictures," said a source close to Katie's family.

Scientology expert Rick Ross said: "I think the birth will be on The Freewinds" - referring to Scientology's luxury cruise liner. Wherever it happens, if they stick strictly to Scientology rules Tom will not be allowed in the delivery room, the birth will have to be drug-free, and Katie will be surrounded by silence during the delivery and for several hours afterwards.

Insiders insist Katie's family are pushing for a regular hospital birth. "They'd feel more at peace with all the resources a hospital can provide," a source said. And friends say Katie is feeling "a lot of stress' over the birth. "She's doesn't know what to expect," the source said. "This is her first birth."
wth :rolleyes: he probably thinks he is the only celebrity to have a baby in hospitals no? :rolleyes: i guess his wife + baby health and confort is less important then a few pictures that in his delusional mind can be taken by reporters while in hospital:o

CooCooCachoo
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:15 AM
Scientology ought to be banned.

smiler
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:24 AM
All religions have elements of shear stupidity in them, but also bits that make sense. Besides, when it comes to having the baby, no amount of cardboard signs will stop her yelling if she wants to, they're not gonna gag her! (or at least I bloody hope not, that would be horrific!)

nicky
Mar 30th, 2006, 10:43 AM
All religions have elements of shear stupidity in them, but also bits that make sense. Besides, when it comes to having the baby, no amount of cardboard signs will stop her yelling if she wants to, they're not gonna gag her! (or at least I bloody hope not, that would be horrific!)
Probably no gagging, no. But if she is to give birth on that ship, she might not be able to change her mind about how to deliver her child.
I've known more than one mother-to-be declaring she would not ask for drugs, only to change her mind when the pain becomes unbearable, as Rocketta already said (and trying to bear pain is one thing, but if it goes on for let's say 12 hours or more, it is absolutely draining).

In any hospital environment, you can change your mind; on that scientology-ship, they might not allow that...

PamShriverRockz
Mar 30th, 2006, 11:49 AM
but any relationship has the potential to be abusive and we would never know. It's probably more likely the relationship everyone thinks is healthy. :o I just think to talk about abuse in relation to a relationship where there isn't any evidence of it is to kind of insinuate that it is more likely an abusive relationship when we really don't know.

Tom was flat out wrong for saying that about Brooke it was none of his business. However, he was giving his religious view on it. That's what they believe.....I don't believe it but they do. :shrug: That's what Katie is choosing to believe as well.

I think there are two debates....the merits of Scientology and whether or not Katie is choosing Scientology of her own free will.

I know what you're saying and I agree Rocky, but I never meant to imply I thought they had an abusive relationship.
What I should have mentioned that by "abuse" I also mean control and manipulation. Of course there are various degrees of this in all relationships, but sometimes men or woman take it too far on their partners (and without ever lifting a finger at them etc.). Sometimes of course partners are quite happy to let this happen, and sometimes they're not for whatever reason. To be honest, I'm skeptical towards Tom, but I accept Katie is an adult. I was just hoping that she knows what she's doing.

Phew, this is quite a irksome topic! ;)

I wish Tom hadn't said that publically about depression though. If he wants to believe that, that's up to him I don't care, but by saying it to everyone, it might stop one person from seeking help if they are depressed...or it might make someone more likely to think it's their own fault for being ill...or make them feel ashamed :mad: As someone in the public eye he should be more careful about what he says IMO. :shrug:

Nicjac
Mar 30th, 2006, 03:37 PM
Like I said in another post every first time mother I've been around haven't a clue as to what they are going to go through. They hear theories and different practices and based on their opinions and not their life experience they all choose a path. My friend swore up and down she wasn't going to accept drugs because it does this or that to the baby but as soon as the pain hit she changed her mind. I just don't see any different with Katie the only difference is that she's choosing to follow the Scientology way as opposed to some other method she read in a book or a friend told her about.


Yeah, you are absolutely right. Women tend to underestimate what it means to give birth. Especially the first time. So they should consult people with knowledge, not a man who says that men shouldn't be in the delivery room while their women go through such a painful experience that the body releases a hormone which causes retrograde amnesia. Otherwise women would never ever consider giving birth to a second child. But its Katies choice (presumably).

I don't know much about Katie but why are we assuming she hasn't done her research and truly believes this is a healthy way for the baby? Would I do that....Hell to Naw but I don't believe....and apparently she does. What about Katie makes you believe that she's easily pressured into doing things that she doesn't want? Maybe she is....I don't know to be honest. It just seems everybody is so sure she's being manipulated into self-torture....what if she just truly believes? there are many women who do apparently.

Right again. What keeps me wondering is that she never expressed any interest in Scientology before meeting up with her childhood idol, and is surrounded by a second - and very high ranked member - of that community on a daily basis since dating that actor. It was a pretty short time to become such a devotee of such a weird belief. And she is rather young, the twenty-somethings are the ones who twist and turn before settling down with their beliefs and values.

On the other hand, if Tom Cruise would have converted back to his catholic belief out of love (and which he helt up for decades) and had refrained from sex before the holy marriage vows, we wouldn't be in this mess. ;)

It's much easier to brainwash someone young and overwhelmed by love (or money or career opportunities) than someone in their forties.

But you are right - we don't know! But we know about experiences of people who got curious (or otherwise got connected to this sect), visited a seminar, and had trouble to get out again. And I am not saying that other religious communities are mighty better than this one.

Oh and everybody's opinions are influenced by other people, places, and things including the opinion that being silent during childbirth is a crazy, crazy concept. ;)

lol GOOD one! Let me think about the causes for my weird belief.

alfonsojose
Mar 30th, 2006, 03:44 PM
:crazy: :retard: What a circus :lol:

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 03:50 PM
I wish Tom hadn't said that publically about depression though. If he wants to believe that, that's up to him I don't care, but by saying it to everyone, it might stop one person from seeking help if they are depressed...or it might make someone more likely to think it's their own fault for being ill...or make them feel ashamed :mad: As someone in the public eye he should be more careful about what he says IMO. :shrug:

I agree 100%. :yeah:

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 04:01 PM
Yeah, you are absolutely right. Women tend to underestimate what it means to give birth. Especially the first time. So they should consult people with knowledge, not a man who says that men shouldn't be in the delivery room while their women go through such a painful experience that the body releases a hormone which causes retrograde amnesia. Otherwise women would never ever consider giving birth to a second child. But its Katies choice (presumably).

Gosh, I hope Katie is consulting more than just Tom on the birth of her baby. :scared: :lol:

I'm sure she is...I mean she has her mother who I would assume is a voice of reason in her ear.



Right again. What keeps me wondering is that she never expressed any interest in Scientology before meeting up with her childhood idol, and is surrounded by a second - and very high ranked member - of that community on a daily basis since dating that actor. It was a pretty short time to become such a devotee of such a weird belief. And she is rather young, the twenty-somethings are the ones who twist and turn before settling down with their beliefs and values.

On the other hand, if Tom Cruise would have converted back to his catholic belief out of love (and which he helt up for decades) and had refrained from sex before the holy marriage vows, we wouldn't be in this mess. ;)

It's much easier to brainwash someone young and overwhelmed by love (or money or career opportunities) than someone in their forties.

But you are right - we don't know! But we know about experiences of people who got curious (or otherwise got connected to this sect), visited a seminar, and had trouble to get out again. And I am not saying that other religious communities are mighty better than this one.

sure twenty-somethings can be manipulated but then again men going through mid-life crisis get manipulated by twenty somethings too. :lol:

She may be completely enamored by him being that she had a crush on him most of her life. She may be the one making all the compromises seeing he's probably the one with the most power in the relationship. Unfortunately, that is not uncommon in many many many relationships. Tom may be an ego maniac but again that's not too different than a lot of men most who have one-millionth of what he has....Scientology and money certainly aren't the gage of that. :lol:

I seriously think most people would still be talking about Katie if she had converted to catholicism, the criticism would've just been different that's all. There would've been some, "how can she join such a corrupt organization." and "I hope she doesn't have any boys.", etc. etc. :tape:

Actually the fact that she was Catholic makes it a lot easier for me to believe that she's accepting Scientology on her own, Catholics are some of the must disallussioned about their religion type people I've ever seen. :shrug:



lol GOOD one! Let me think about the causes for my weird belief.

:lol: not weird just a belief formulated based on your life influences. ;)

Hagar
Mar 30th, 2006, 04:26 PM
I think this Katie Holmes is a young immature woman who feels extremely flattered that her childhood idol is now her partner. A lot of people in their twenties do not have a lot of selfconfidence and if someone is flattering their ego they would do everything for that person (I was like that myself so I know what I am talking about :p).
Katie Holmes is probably terrified that she might lose Tom Cruise if she does not fulfill his wishes. In general I think that in a relationship with such a big age gap, there is often one partner who is in control. In this case, one is much more famous than the other, is richer than the other.
I personally think that Cruise is crazy and I also think that he is abusive. I have that expression because I always have the feeling that something in Nicole Kidman is broken since Cruise broke up with her. Nicole keeps up a brave face but whenever I see a picture of her, I have the feeling she in pain.

I think that when Katie Holmes will see Cruise's real face, she'll be completely sucked into his grip. It will probably take years for her to have the courage to admit to the world she was completely wrong about him.

Of course, all of this is just speculation but it is my expression.