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View Full Version : Call on Canada's New Prime Minister to End the Seal Slaughter!


BMP
Mar 26th, 2006, 10:24 AM
Hello guys! :wavey:

I hope that there's someone in here who cares... so don't pass by! Chances are thin, but anyway, let's try to help animals and stop this violence together!

Details are here: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/566342047?ltl=1143228980

K.U.C.W-R.V
Mar 26th, 2006, 10:31 AM
Signed it.

Mattographer
Mar 26th, 2006, 10:59 AM
Signed it.

tennislover
Mar 26th, 2006, 12:24 PM
Done.

http://dingo.care2.com/c2p/hsus/2006_sealpup.jpg

:awww:

Andy.
Mar 26th, 2006, 12:26 PM
Signed in and done

CrossCourt~Rally
Mar 26th, 2006, 12:27 PM
Signed it :)

Andy.
Mar 26th, 2006, 12:30 PM
http://dingo.care2.com/c2p/hsus/2006_sealpup.jpg



How could anyone with a heart hurt this beautiful creature:sad:

Timariot
Mar 26th, 2006, 01:09 PM
Sigh. People get all excited about cute critters like seals and dolphins, but not about ACTUALLY over-exploited, threatened species like tuna or codfish. Because they aren't cute and fuzzy and don't do funny tricks.

I protest by not signing this protest.

416_Man
Mar 26th, 2006, 01:40 PM
Sigh. People get all excited about cute critters like seals and dolphins, but not about ACTUALLY over-exploited, threatened species like tuna or codfish. Because they aren't cute and fuzzy and don't do funny tricks.

I protest by not signing this protest.

lol Exactly, and so many people don't even understand.

Seals are being killed, because it is an industry, they do not kill ALL the seals.

Instead, George W. Bush is slaughtering innocent men in Iraq, for his own personal gains. But obviously those men aren't nearly as adorable as a seal.

416_Man
Mar 26th, 2006, 01:48 PM
Hello guys! :wavey:

I hope that there's someone in here who cares... so don't pass by! Chances are thin, but anyway, let's try to help animals and stop this violence together!

Details are here: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/566342047?ltl=1143228980

A few problems with what they're saying on that petition.

1. The new Prime Minister is far more right wing than our last, if it was up to him anything that could be done for a profit, will be done.

2. Even if he suddenly felt "let's save this animal", we have a minority government, and not a dictatorship- his soul voice means nothing. :)

3. The majority of ridings that take part in the seal hunts are conservative and liberal, so still... political parties won't be going against the province of NFLD who already feels alienated.

4. THEY ARE ANIMALS. Yes, we want them all to live. However, if you follow the Bible, or even the Torah (maybe others as well), they were made UNDER us to govern them. The Natives use the scraps for meat, and the NFLDers use it for its pelts to sell. Quite frankly, I think humans should be our main concern, but if you'd rather than welfare and safety of animals, maybe you see something I do not.

BMP
Mar 26th, 2006, 02:50 PM
Quite frankly, I think humans should be our main concern, but if you'd rather than welfare and safety of animals, maybe you see something I do not.
Don't think that I wanna participate only in this stuff, to support only this kind of animals, because they are cute or somehting. Whoever have problems, people or animals, I am never indifferent and try to support. I just think that in this particular case violence is pointless, it doesn't really do anything good for anyone. People could do without it, easily. Fur is not such an essential in nowadays. That's not like they kill them for food to survive. :rolleyes:

Paldias
Mar 26th, 2006, 02:50 PM
Done.

http://dingo.care2.com/c2p/hsus/2006_sealpup.jpg

:awww:

:rolleyes: I hope you realize that those kind of seals are not killed. It's against the law in Canada :tape:

You people are so uneducated. You don't understand anything! :rolleyes:

Reuchlin
Mar 26th, 2006, 03:29 PM
How about we call on him to end the ruthless slaughter of 2/3rds out-of-the womb 9 month old infants first?

416_Man
Mar 26th, 2006, 03:32 PM
Don't think that I wanna participate only in this stuff, to support only this kind of animals, because they are cute or somehting. Whoever have problems, people or animals, I am never indifferent and try to support. I just think that in this particular case violence is pointless, it doesn't really do anything good for anyone. People could do without it, easily. Fur is not such an essential in nowadays. That's not like they kill them for food to survive. :rolleyes:

People are willing to buy the pelts at outrageous prices. Don't say it's not essential, because you DO NOT LIVE IN NEWFOUNDLAND OR LABRADOR! If you lived there, worked as a seal harvester and said it was not essential, then I'd say well, I guess for him it's not necessary. But for the thousands that need this as their soul source of income, it's necessary. Think of the people, PLEASE!

Cersei
Mar 26th, 2006, 03:47 PM
done

hablo
Mar 26th, 2006, 04:55 PM
Sigh. People get all excited about cute critters like seals and dolphins, but not about ACTUALLY over-exploited, threatened species like tuna or codfish. Because they aren't cute and fuzzy and don't do funny tricks.

I protest by not signing this protest.
True.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 26th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Sigh. People get all excited about cute critters like seals and dolphins, but not about ACTUALLY over-exploited, threatened species like tuna or codfish. Because they aren't cute and fuzzy and don't do funny tricks.

I protest by not signing this protest.

:worship:

Not to mention that a large number of the whiners on this issue know squat about the economy in NFLD. Apparently they'd rather people starve than see some animals die.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 26th, 2006, 05:05 PM
People are willing to buy the pelts at outrageous prices. Don't say it's not essential, because you DO NOT LIVE IN NEWFOUNDLAND OR LABRADOR! If you lived there, worked as a seal harvester and said it was not essential, then I'd say well, I guess for him it's not necessary. But for the thousands that need this as their soul source of income, it's necessary. Think of the people, PLEASE!

:worship:

The ignorance of some of these people is absolutely astounding. They ought to be ashamed of themselves for pushing an agenda that they know nothing about.

tennislover
Mar 26th, 2006, 05:20 PM
:rolleyes: I hope you realize that those kind of seals are not killed. It's against the law in Canada :tape:

You people are so uneducated. You don't understand anything! :rolleyes:
Can you please tell me why world-wide media say that most of killed seals will be little seals? :confused:

416_Man
Mar 26th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Can you please tell me why world-wide media say that most of killed seals will be little seals? :confused:

Because if they want to move people to support their cause, they won't show 300 lb seals with large shiny teeth ready to kill.

Tell me why world-wide media ignores the income of the majority of these people who have this as their occupation?

drake3781
Mar 26th, 2006, 06:18 PM
Because if they want to move people to support their cause, they won't show 300 lb seals with large shiny teeth ready to kill.

Tell me why world-wide media ignores the income of the majority of these people who have this as their occupation?

The seals under 12 days may not be killed. (If you are just-born to 11 days old, you are safe.)

The seals 12 days old or older may be killed.

The seals are legally allowed to be killed once they are 12 days old.

The seal in the picture is just-born to 11 days old, it cannot be killed.


The coats turn from pure white to mottled color after 11 days. This is how the hunters can know which are 11 days or under.

95% of the seals killed during the hunt are under 3 months.

Many seals new-born to 11 days old are killed illegally, and there is documented evidence (video).

325,000 seals will be killed this hunting season (That is the quota given by the Canadian govt.)

The seals are killed on the "whelping grounds". This means the icy area that the mothers go to to give birth out of the water, because the babies need to be born on the land.

This post ONLY addresses the facts on age of seals killed.

Video at this page shows the size and coats of the seals being killed in the two past seasons.

http://www.stopthesealhunt.ca/site/...1PFIqE&b=437937

(Last video is good, and it can be viewed in Windows Media Player. Although the site is against the hunt, the video itself is documentary video, except for the last few minutes which anyone can skip. Otherwise it is pure hunt footage and not propaganda.)

tennislover
Mar 26th, 2006, 06:33 PM
http://www.stopthesealhunt.com/atf/cf/{1AE979E3-67B2-4AC0-A26D-17D11CF1EAB6}/YELLOW.JPG

tennislover
Mar 26th, 2006, 06:35 PM
The seals under 12 days may not be killed. (If you are just-born to 11 days old, you are safe.)

The seals 12 days old or older may be killed.

The seals are legally allowed to be killed once they are 12 days old.

The seal in the picture is just-born to 11 days old, it cannot be killed.


The coats turn from pure white to mottled color after 11 days. This is how the hunters can know which are 11 days or under.

95% of the seals killed during the hunt are under 3 months.

Many seals new-born to 11 days old are killed illegally, and there is documented evidence (video).

325,000 seals will be killed this hunting season (That is the quota given by the Canadian govt.)

The seals are killed on the "whelping grounds". This means the icy area that the mothers go to to give birth out of the water, because the babies need to be born on the land.

This post ONLY addresses the facts on age of seals killed.

Video at this page shows the size and coats of the seals being killed in the two past seasons.

http://www.stopthesealhunt.ca/site/...1PFIqE&b=437937

(Last video is good, and it can be viewed in Windows Media Player. Although the site is against the hunt, the video itself is documentary video, except for the last few minutes which anyone can skip. Otherwise it is pure hunt footage and not propaganda.)
great site!!!!!!!!
ty for posting the link!!!!!

James
Mar 26th, 2006, 06:41 PM
Because if they want to move people to support their cause, they won't show 300 lb seals with large shiny teeth ready to kill.

Tell me why world-wide media ignores the income of the majority of these people who have this as their occupation?

Surely plans can be made to find alternative income for these people somehow? Are you saying the only reason to kill these animals is for people to hold their job?

tennislover
Mar 26th, 2006, 06:46 PM
Because if they want to move people to support their cause, they won't show 300 lb seals with large shiny teeth ready to kill.

Tell me why world-wide media ignores the income of the majority of these people who have this as their occupation?

it's time you see this

http://www.stopthesealhunt.ca/site/pp.asp?c=dhKPI1PFIqE&b=1467325

"the presentation lasts some dozen seconds"

dementieva's fan
Mar 26th, 2006, 06:50 PM
The seals under 12 days may not be killed. (If you are just-born to 11 days old, you are safe.)

The seals 12 days old or older may be killed.

The seals are legally allowed to be killed once they are 12 days old.

The seal in the picture is just-born to 11 days old, it cannot be killed.


The coats turn from pure white to mottled color after 11 days. This is how the hunters can know which are 11 days or under.

95% of the seals killed during the hunt are under 3 months.

Many seals new-born to 11 days old are killed illegally, and there is documented evidence (video).

325,000 seals will be killed this hunting season (That is the quota given by the Canadian govt.)

The seals are killed on the "whelping grounds". This means the icy area that the mothers go to to give birth out of the water, because the babies need to be born on the land.

This post ONLY addresses the facts on age of seals killed.

Video at this page shows the size and coats of the seals being killed in the two past seasons.

http://www.stopthesealhunt.ca/site/...1PFIqE&b=437937

(Last video is good, and it can be viewed in Windows Media Player. Although the site is against the hunt, the video itself is documentary video, except for the last few minutes which anyone can skip. Otherwise it is pure hunt footage and not propaganda.)

*violins playing in the background*
:rolleyes:

Timariot
Mar 26th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Surely plans can be made to find alternative income for these people somehow?

Sure, how big tax raise you're willing to take?

dementieva's fan
Mar 26th, 2006, 07:16 PM
A few problems with what they're saying on that petition.

1. The new Prime Minister is far more right wing than our last, if it was up to him anything that could be done for a profit, will be done.

2. Even if he suddenly felt "let's save this animal", we have a minority government, and not a dictatorship- his soul voice means nothing. :)

3. The majority of ridings that take part in the seal hunts are conservative and liberal, so still... political parties won't be going against the province of NFLD who already feels alienated.

4. THEY ARE ANIMALS. Yes, we want them all to live. However, if you follow the Bible, or even the Torah (maybe others as well), they were made UNDER us to govern them. The Natives use the scraps for meat, and the NFLDers use it for its pelts to sell. Quite frankly, I think humans should be our main concern, but if you'd rather than welfare and safety of animals, maybe you see something I do not.

5. If the seal hunt is banned it would be a direct violation of the treaties that the canadian government had signed with the natives which guarantee the natives a right to hunt and fish to support their livelihood. They have the backing of UN human rights comission. Those treaties were signed in 1870s And a lot of natives are involved in this seal hunt. You can NEVER completely ban the seal hunt, unless something drastic happens and suddenly seals become an endangered species you will NEVER be able to put an end to the seal hunt. It is like a commandment Thou shall not ban the seal hunt

Wigglytuff
Mar 26th, 2006, 07:43 PM
Sigh. People get all excited about cute critters like seals and dolphins, but not about ACTUALLY over-exploited, threatened species like tuna or codfish. Because they aren't cute and fuzzy and don't do funny tricks.

I protest by not signing this protest.

sigh. what you fail to understand is just because something is not the IUCN Red List does NOT mean its ok it brutalize them. period. and if it does i vote we start with dogs or cats or children. :wavey:

James
Mar 26th, 2006, 07:58 PM
Sure, how big tax raise you're willing to take?

I did not suggest that is an easy task, but I'm sure there are other economic activities that could be employed there.

Wigglytuff
Mar 26th, 2006, 07:58 PM
A few problems with what they're saying on that petition.

1. The new Prime Minister is far more right wing than our last, if it was up to him anything that could be done for a profit, will be done.

2. Even if he suddenly felt "let's save this animal", we have a minority government, and not a dictatorship- his soul voice means nothing. :)

3. The majority of ridings that take part in the seal hunts are conservative and liberal, so still... political parties won't be going against the province of NFLD who already feels alienated.

4. THEY ARE ANIMALS. Yes, we want them all to live. However, if you follow the Bible, or even the Torah (maybe others as well), they were made UNDER us to govern them. The Natives use the scraps for meat, and the NFLDers use it for its pelts to sell. Quite frankly, I think humans should be our main concern, but if you'd rather than welfare and safety of animals, maybe you see something I do not.

let us NOT go into the bible, because if you go with that then there is talk about killing the children of people who disagree with you, raping women for fun (bible quotes (http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm)) and thats just for starters... plus its a little of topic.

but i do think you have a point about 1 & 2

drake3781
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:31 AM
Is that a mother and her baby?

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060324/capt.cpt10303242313.canada_seal_hunt__cpt103.jpg

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:44 AM
Surely plans can be made to find alternative income for these people somehow? Are you saying the only reason to kill these animals is for people to hold their job?

Do you have any better ideas as to what they should be doing in NFLD for income, if killing animals of any sort is out of the question? Please forward your ideas to the government, I'm sure they'd be thrilled to hear about the plethora of options that are apparently available. Oh, I know - let's ship them all to Alberta, that will solve everything :D

416_Man
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:46 AM
As the world worries about the poor seals, this happens to "just another man" in Iraq.

http://www.sunflower.com/~420/apr/m28naj.jpg

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:47 AM
sigh. what you fail to understand is just because something is not the IUCN Red List does NOT mean its ok it brutalize them. period. and if it does i vote we start with dogs or cats or children. :wavey:

I've always thought that legalizing the clubbing of morons would be a great idea.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:47 AM
I did not suggest that is an easy task, but I'm sure there are other economic activities that could be employed there.

How sure?

416_Man
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:47 AM
Do you have any better ideas as to what they should be doing in NFLD for income, if killing animals of any sort is out of the question? Please forward your ideas to the government, I'm sure they'd be thrilled to hear about the plethora of options that are apparently available. Oh, I know - let's ship them all to Alberta, that will solve everything :D

lmao when in doubt ship them to an overcrowded city, or Alberta. :lol:

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:50 AM
As the world worries about the poor seals, this happens to "just another man" in Iraq.

http://www.sunflower.com/~420/apr/m28naj.jpg
Yikes.

That beats the photos of dead fish that I was going to post :scared:

hablo
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:51 AM
As the world worries about the poor seals, this happens to "just another man" in Iraq.

http://www.sunflower.com/~420/apr/m28naj.jpg
:sad::sad::sad:

Fingon
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:55 AM
I've always thought that legalizing the clubbing of morons would be a great idea.

there are not enough clubs

dementieva's fan
Mar 27th, 2006, 02:57 AM
As the world worries about the poor seals, this happens to "just another man" in Iraq.

http://www.sunflower.com/~420/apr/m28naj.jpg
Her's a girl in iraq
http://www.jsoucy.org/iraq/images/girl_looking.jpg




Too bad they are not cuddly like seals and don't do cool tricks, so they have no right to live :rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:08 AM
there are not enough clubs
:lol: :yeah:

¤CharlDa¤
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:17 AM
Well I must say this argument is very popular right now everywhere.

I'm personnally a strong environmentalist and a vegetarian, so I know my views are biased on the subject.

I don't agree with any kind of hunting to start with. In that case, I understand it is the only way the hunters can get decent life conditions. I agree that it might be necessary for them to hunt. So let's start there...

I don't think that the hunter have the right attitude towards what is happening. Even though I know most of them have decent ways of killing those seals, the use of cruel and insensitive weapons is still very common and should completely be stopped.

One example: Manifestants from Greenpeace were at the port when they left and came back yesterday. Guess what the hunters did? Throw some seal intestines at them, yelling obscenities.

Many people are ignorant about what is happening, I am part of them, and that I agree. But I personnally can't control myself when I see people like some of those hunters who just don't care about what they are doing, who don't make any efforts to change the situation they are in and complain about other people's opinions.

"When a man kills a tiger, it is called sport. When a tiger kills a man, it is called bestiality". Best sentence ever.

¤CharlDa¤
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:23 AM
Why does everyone bring the *Humans are killed around the world* argument?

It's not cause people are against killing seals that they are for the death of human beings :confused: :rolleyes:

drake3781
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:25 AM
Is that a mother and her baby?

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060324/capt.cpt10303242313.canada_seal_hunt__cpt103.jpg

Is that a mother and her baby?

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:27 AM
Is that a mother and her baby?

¤CharlDa¤
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:47 AM
But the real question is:

Is that a Baby and its mother?

Paldias
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:50 AM
http://www.stopthesealhunt.com/atf/cf/{1AE979E3-67B2-4AC0-A26D-17D11CF1EAB6}/YELLOW.JPG

Stop using pictures of these kinds of seals to get movement to your argument. These kinds of seals are banned from being killed in Canada. :o Way to distort the argument :rolleyes:

¤CharlDa¤
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:53 AM
I agree with you Paldias, but putting pictures of people in Iraq was also distorting the argument.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 04:25 AM
I agree with you Paldias, but putting pictures of people in Iraq was also distorting the argument.
Actually, I think that it was a compliment to the poster's argument. Though I have no doubt that it may have distorted *your* argument ;)

¤CharlDa¤
Mar 27th, 2006, 04:30 AM
I don't understand how bringing that exemple in the conversation is relevant.

I agree showing pictures of baby seals are irrelevant, but isn't showing pictures of a young girl who is a victim of the war in Iraq as irrelevant? Even though they don't go to war to kill or injure these innocent people, we know it happens. Same story with baby seals, as much as I hate myself for comparing those two notions.

James
Mar 27th, 2006, 04:44 AM
Do you have any better ideas as to what they should be doing in NFLD for income, if killing animals of any sort is out of the question? Please forward your ideas to the government, I'm sure they'd be thrilled to hear about the plethora of options that are apparently available. Oh, I know - let's ship them all to Alberta, that will solve everything :D

I've already said it would not be easy, but if killing animals is the only economical activity possible there, I would be very much surprised.

Reuchlin
Mar 27th, 2006, 04:50 AM
Why does everyone bring the *Humans are killed around the world* argument?

It's not cause people are against killing seals that they are for the death of human beings :confused: :rolleyes:

I think this argument is trying to suggest that we should pick our battles more wisely.

Andy.
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:01 AM
We are not saying that killing other animals or people is any better but why not support these animals too

jmd
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:07 AM
Well I Am Sure This Is Awful Publicity For Canada Worldwide

Reuchlin
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:21 AM
We are not saying that killing other animals or people is any better but why not support these animals too

I am all for animal rights-- it's just that sometimes the amount of resources that are being devoted towards animal rights causes is excessive.

Andy.
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:22 AM
Animals cant do anything to help themselves thats why we have to.

Reuchlin
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:27 AM
Animals cant do anything to help themselves thats why we have to.

You're right. I am all for that. However, keep in mind that this seal hunt is getting way more attention than the genocide in Sudan ever got, or will ever get from the media. Thus you can see why people are not always too thrilled with these new animal rights causes popping up all over the place.

galadriel
Mar 27th, 2006, 06:16 AM
Signed it :D

Timariot
Mar 27th, 2006, 09:06 AM
I'm all for preservation of nature, but it must be tempered with common sense. You may note that WWF is not taking any kind of action about the seal hunt. Why? Because the harp seal is not endangered at all. 330 000 seals may sound like much, but given that population size is estimated to be in excess of 5 million seals, it's perfectly sustainable. If the protesters were concerned only about excessive cruelty and call for more humane methods, fair enough - but they want the hunt to be stopped altogether. Why? Apparently, because baby seals are just so darn cute. Righto. Meanwhile, more acute problems get ignored. People protested against tuna fishing because too many dolphins get killed in the nets and lines. And I thought, why isn't anyone concerned about too many tuna getting killed? The worlds' predatory fish stocks have fallen by over 90% and nobody seems overly concerned. That, and not the killing of few seals, is going to come back to bite humanity in the ass. And if you don't believe me, just look what happened in the Grand Banks.

As for the morality of hunting, human is a predatory animal and hunting other animals is what predators do. Have you ever seen how orcas kill baby seals? Orcas snatch them from their mothers, drag them to open sea and then flail them with their tails until seals' skin literally peels off. How come nobody is protesting against that?

BMP
Mar 27th, 2006, 09:41 AM
I totally agree with what was said here about people of Iraq....
But why do you think that noone cares about them and noone supports? The matter is, if it's such an issue to protect animals from a cruel slaughter that has gone too far, can you imagine how difficult it is to fight for the rights of those people? :sad:

"Sluggy"
Mar 27th, 2006, 09:52 AM
bah humbug, seal meat tastes good

*abby*
Mar 27th, 2006, 09:53 AM
there are people fighting to stop the war in Iraq there are protests and petitions and the like.
just because there is a war going where people are being killed does that mean we should stop fighting for other causes with animals involved because there is a greater need to protest against the war?

Grachka
Mar 27th, 2006, 09:58 AM
Posting cute baby seals, or any other seals for that matter, is largely irrelevant and distorts the reality of the debate. Cuteness of animals shouldn't matter if you are purporting respect for animal rights on the whole, because I don't see many pictures of chickens, or as Timariot so eloquently noted, fish being posted and people wetting themselves with moral indignation at their plight.

I want to ask drake3781 again about her reasons for eating fish, whilst being a vegetarian in other respects. Whilst I'm not saying that invalidates your views, it would certainly enlighten me on your motivations for protesting the seal hunt. You didn't seem to dispute the evidence that fish feel pain like other animals (but then again you didn't respond to any of that directly), and the fish industry is hardly more humane that of the seal hunt...so why is this issue so special and different?

tennislover
Mar 27th, 2006, 10:04 AM
As the world worries about the poor seals, this happens to "just another man" in Iraq.



that's hugely stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:
i hope you will be banned for posting that horrible photo

Scotso
Mar 27th, 2006, 12:50 PM
I'm personally getting sick of this whole seal thing. At least could you guys combine all this stuff into one thread?

Wigglytuff
Mar 27th, 2006, 01:17 PM
if people get to do that to seals, why not dogs and cats? (didnt get answered the first time) there are many more dogs and cats to sell for meat and fur, and certainly they are over populated. so seals are a poor choice, i think dog and cat hunts held year round would prove these people with 10000X the income. so why are they not going after dogs and cats if this about money?

Sonja
Mar 27th, 2006, 01:41 PM
In regards to the photo, it is awful as to what's happening there and many other situations in the world. However, it doesn't make the seal slaughter any less of a problem. It is something that needs to be addressed.

dementieva's fan
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:21 PM
You're right. I am all for that. However, keep in mind that this seal hunt is getting way more attention than the genocide in Sudan ever got, or will ever get from the media. Thus you can see why people are not always too thrilled with these new animal rights causes popping up all over the place.
Good Point

dementieva's fan
Mar 27th, 2006, 03:36 PM
Chickens being slaughtered in the most inhumane way possible in US

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/farm_animals_news/still_a_jungle_out_there.html

Nearly 100 years after the publication of The Jungle, Americans might be surprised to learn that many of the systematic cruelties that Sinclair documented are still performed on more than 95% of all farm animals slaughtered for food in this country. In fact, although largely hidden behind the walls of massive industrial slaughter plants, more than nine billion chickens, turkeys, and other birds are slaughtered each year in the United States without the benefit of any federal law to protect them from being shackled by their legs, hung upside-down, cut with mechanical blades, and immersed in scalding water—all while they're fully conscious.
If you don't mind mind blood and gore and graphic material please watch this video. This is not a propaganda video this is what happens in 95% of US slaughter houses. http://stream.realimpact.net/?file=realimpact/hsus/video_features/poultry-slaughter.rm

Yet some people have the audacity to complain that seal hunt is "cruel". :rolleyes: when 90% of the seals are shot and only 10% are clubbed. And here's some truth about clubbing
Hunting methods were studied by the Royal Commission on Seals and Sealing in Canada and it found that the clubbing of seals, when properly performed, is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 04:48 PM
I've already said it would not be easy, but if killing animals is the only economical activity possible there, I would be very much surprised.

I suppose that they could export permafrost. And there is always the booming tourism industry in those parts.

James
Mar 27th, 2006, 04:53 PM
I suppose that they could export permafrost. And there is always the booming tourism industry in those parts.

If you view things from a negative stance, things will always look dark.

Martian KC
Mar 27th, 2006, 04:55 PM
Chickens being slaughtered in the most inhumane way possible in US

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/farm_animals_news/still_a_jungle_out_there.html


If you don't mind mind blood and gore and graphic material please watch this video. This is not a propaganda video this is what happens in 95% of US slaughter houses. http://stream.realimpact.net/?file=realimpact/hsus/video_features/poultry-slaughter.rm

Yet some people have the audacity to complain that seal hunt is "cruel". :rolleyes: when 90% of the seals are shot and only 10% are clubbed. And here's some truth about clubbing

Geez! And chicken is the only meat I eat too. I might as well go veggie.:unsure:

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 04:57 PM
I'm all for preservation of nature, but it must be tempered with common sense. You may note that WWF is not taking any kind of action about the seal hunt. Why? Because the harp seal is not endangered at all. 330 000 seals may sound like much, but given that population size is estimated to be in excess of 5 million seals, it's perfectly sustainable. If the protesters were concerned only about excessive cruelty and call for more humane methods, fair enough - but they want the hunt to be stopped altogether. Why? Apparently, because baby seals are just so darn cute. Righto. Meanwhile, more acute problems get ignored. People protested against tuna fishing because too many dolphins get killed in the nets and lines. And I thought, why isn't anyone concerned about too many tuna getting killed? The worlds' predatory fish stocks have fallen by over 90% and nobody seems overly concerned. That, and not the killing of few seals, is going to come back to bite humanity in the ass. And if you don't believe me, just look what happened in the Grand Banks.

As for the morality of hunting, human is a predatory animal and hunting other animals is what predators do. Have you ever seen how orcas kill baby seals? Orcas snatch them from their mothers, drag them to open sea and then flail them with their tails until seals' skin literally peels off. How come nobody is protesting against that?

:worship:

Ellery
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Sigh. People get all excited about cute critters like seals and dolphins, but not about ACTUALLY over-exploited, threatened species like tuna or codfish. Because they aren't cute and fuzzy and don't do funny tricks.

I protest by not signing this protest.
Ditto.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:42 PM
if people get to do that to seals, why not dogs and cats? (didnt get answered the first time) there are many more dogs and cats to sell for meat and fur, and certainly they are over populated. so seals are a poor choice, i think dog and cat hunts held year round would prove these people with 10000X the income. so why are they not going after dogs and cats if this about money?

This question might actually make sense if there was an abundance of cats and dogs running around the areas that the seals were being hunted, and if there was a high demand for the meat and fur of either...

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 06:20 PM
If you view things from a negative stance, things will always look dark.
Realism is only negative when reality is negative, dear. Idealism, on the other hand, is just foolish ;)

I would be happy to hear what other ecomonic opportunities exist in the regions where seal hunting takes places (aside from fishing and what not, since I fail to put one animal above the other here, unlike some posters here). Realistically, I'm not seeing too many. It's all well and good to say "well there must be something" - but unless somebody with an understanding of the region (and I confess that I am not an expert myself, but I do at least have an understanding of the climate) has some examples to offer, than it means diddly. Good intentions aren't much use if they aren't working within reality ;)

Wigglytuff
Mar 27th, 2006, 06:40 PM
Chickens being slaughtered in the most inhumane way possible in US

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/farm_animals_news/still_a_jungle_out_there.html


If you don't mind mind blood and gore and graphic material please watch this video. This is not a propaganda video this is what happens in 95% of US slaughter houses. http://stream.realimpact.net/?file=realimpact/hsus/video_features/poultry-slaughter.rm

Yet some people have the audacity to complain that seal hunt is "cruel". :rolleyes: when 90% of the seals are shot and only 10% are clubbed. And here's some truth about clubbing
other people have said it, i have it,
you are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo missing the point and WORSE YOU ARE ACTUALLY JUSTIFYING VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND. what you are saying is that is ok because "worse" things are going on. thats fucked up. by your very logic, no one should care about chickens being killed because people are being killed. and people should not care about what happened to people they dont know, because cruel things happen to people they do know.

by your own logic, screw the chickens because people get killed (so dont turn around two posts later and pretend to care about the chickens). i mean really, its LAME to say as long as something out there is "worse" in your eyes people should not "have the audacity to complain".

416_Man
Mar 27th, 2006, 09:12 PM
that's hugely stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:
i hope you will be banned for posting that horrible photo

How is the slaughtering of a man stupid :sad: ?

416_Man
Mar 27th, 2006, 09:21 PM
other people have said it, i have it,
you are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo missing the point and WORSE YOU ARE ACTUALLY JUSTIFYING VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND. what you are saying is that is ok because "worse" things are going on. thats fucked up. by your very logic, no one should care about chickens being killed because people are being killed. and people should not care about what happened to people they dont know, because cruel things happen to people they do know.

by your own logic, screw the chickens because people get killed (so dont turn around two posts later and pretend to care about the chickens). i mean really, its LAME to say as long as something out there is "worse" in your eyes people should not "have the audacity to complain".

I don't think dementievafan is trying to validify the slaughter of chickens or of seals, or anyother animal, he's just trying to ask us to question our frames of reference. We eat chicken, even though they are killed that grusome way, but I've never heard of a "Save the Chickens" relief fund or protest. in fact, North Americans devour chicken. Yet, seals are killed, brutally, though it appears not as brutally as the chickens, and the world begins protesting. It's ironic.

It is the same reason I posted the image of the man that was brutally murdered. We care so deeply for the rights of animals, but I think we tend to neglect the rights of humans. I think that we should value the rights of humans, more than the rights of animal, but that is only my opinion. If we can ensure humans remain peacefull alive, as well as animals, than we've reached utopia. Until then, we should not forget the right of humans, especially when the leading organisation for the welfare of animals, understands that it is for the wellbeing of the humans that these animals are being killed.

Gerri
Mar 27th, 2006, 09:45 PM
Signed :) And if anyone's interested I also care about cruelty to and killing of tuna, cod, chickens, sharks and reptiles as well as cute fluffy things and even human beings :eek:

Wigglytuff
Mar 27th, 2006, 11:16 PM
I don't think dementievafan is trying to validify the slaughter of chickens or of seals, or anyother animal, he's just trying to ask us to question our frames of reference. We eat chicken, even though they are killed that grusome way, but I've never heard of a "Save the Chickens" relief fund or protest. in fact, North Americans devour chicken. Yet, seals are killed, brutally, though it appears not as brutally as the chickens, and the world begins protesting. It's ironic.

It is the same reason I posted the image of the man that was brutally murdered. We care so deeply for the rights of animals, but I think we tend to neglect the rights of humans. I think that we should value the rights of humans, more than the rights of animal, but that is only my opinion. If we can ensure humans remain peacefull alive, as well as animals, than we've reached utopia. Until then, we should not forget the right of humans, especially when the leading organisation for the welfare of animals, understands that it is for the wellbeing of the humans that these animals are being killed.
but what you still fail to understand is that say "its not big deal, chickens get killed by the zillions, of course thats not a big deal either because people get killed too" IS VALIDATING VIOLENCE. thats the argument used by people who engage in factory farming "its not a big deal people get killed". it the argument used by people who kill other people. Validating and encouraging violence that is the ONLY thing your argument is doing.

as for people saying that an animals life with worth more than a human's and how you or others protect that idea by stating how little animals lifes matter. its utter bullshit. i dont remember anyone saying that the seals are worth more than the humans. thats an assumption you walked into about what people feel and think.

nor do you know about the what other people do to end human suffering. and disrespected the dead by posting pictures of them in a message board it make your point does more to show how little those who posted the picts value human life rather than anything else. and the to go so far as to use ASSUMPTIONS about others to then place VALUE JUDGMENTS on them based on nothing more than your assumptions is not only fucked up and silly, its also counterproductive, and i have to say shows an unwillingness to resolve issues of human or animal suffering. because if one really was that willing one would know that there are people out there who just plain care, wether its human or animal. i have to say it again that to use your assumptions about people (you didnt ask what people's "frame of reference" you just assumed you knew) and then to place judgments on others based on your assumptions is counterproductive and silly. not to mention the fact that you are wrong and misguided in those assumptions.

-supporting the suffering of animals does NOTHING to end human suffering
-ignoring the suffering of animals does NOTHING to end human suffering
-assuming people who care about animal suffering dont care about human does NOTHING to end human suffering (and is dead wrong and counter-productive)
-arguing over which is worth chickens or seals more does NOTHING to end human suffering.
-disrespecting the dead does NOTHING to end human suffering (but it does serve to further it).
-and it should go without saying that ignoring the suffering of humans does NOTHING to end animal suffering (and anyone who actually cares about animal suffering rather than providing lip service is well aware of this).

Wigglytuff
Mar 27th, 2006, 11:17 PM
Signed :) And if anyone's interested I also care about cruelty to and killing of tuna, cod, chickens, sharks and reptiles as well as cute fluffy things and even human beings :eek:
i will ditto that, and say, see dont assume things about people without asking to those in this thread that base their arguments on assumptions.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 27th, 2006, 11:48 PM
Signed :) And if anyone's interested I also care about cruelty to and killing of tuna, cod, chickens, sharks and reptiles as well as cute fluffy things and even human beings :eek:
:yeah:

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 02:18 AM
but what you still fail to understand is that say "its not big deal, chickens get killed by the zillions, of course thats not a big deal either because people get killed too" IS VALIDATING VIOLENCE. thats the argument used by people who engage in factory farming "its not a big deal people get killed". it the argument used by people who kill other people. Validating and encouraging violence that is the ONLY thing your argument is doing.

as for people saying that an animals life with worth more than a human's and how you or others protect that idea by stating how little animals lifes matter. its utter bullshit. i dont remember anyone saying that the seals are worth more than the humans. thats an assumption you walked into about what people feel and think.

nor do you know about the what other people do to end human suffering. and disrespected the dead by posting pictures of them in a message board it make your point does more to show how little those who posted the picts value human life rather than anything else. and the to go so far as to use ASSUMPTIONS about others to then place VALUE JUDGMENTS on them based on nothing more than your assumptions is not only fucked up and silly, its also counterproductive, and i have to say shows an unwillingness to resolve issues of human or animal suffering. because if one really was that willing one would know that there are people out there who just plain care, wether its human or animal. i have to say it again that to use your assumptions about people (you didnt ask what people's "frame of reference" you just assumed you knew) and then to place judgments on others based on your assumptions is counterproductive and silly. not to mention the fact that you are wrong and misguided in those assumptions.

-supporting the suffering of animals does NOTHING to end human suffering
-ignoring the suffering of animals does NOTHING to end human suffering
-assuming people who care about animal suffering dont care about human does NOTHING to end human suffering (and is dead wrong and counter-productive)
-arguing over which is worth chickens or seals more does NOTHING to end human suffering.
-disrespecting the dead does NOTHING to end human suffering (but it does serve to further it).
-and it should go without saying that ignoring the suffering of humans does NOTHING to end animal suffering (and anyone who actually cares about animal suffering rather than providing lip service is well aware of this).

Wow, that went right over my head. :tape:

Naww, I see and respect what you're saying for the most part. I did engage in several assumptions, though it is far to say that many of these assumptions likely have a backing of truth.

I don't believe I assumed that these posters don't value human's lives. In fact, one poster mentioned how much of society ignored the genocide of Sudan (I think), but flocks to these cuddly creatures. It does not mean you value any life more than another, it's just we tend to ignore what's not "as pretty" as another. Not to say YOU do not, but it's very much human nature to flock to the most beautiful, that can not be denied.

That whole disrespected the dead, by posting the pictures was a little... off. In my "frame of reference", pictures of the dead aren't considered disrespectful... (I'm not exactly what sure you're getting at there the sentences are a little off grammatically). Then you went on a tangent of bitching about me... :tape: yes I'm silly, misguided and maybe a little fucked up, whoops don't forget I'm an asshole that only assumes (lol I can see where you get that from).

Now I can see what you're saying by the bottom, though I think (or maybe I'm assuming now, point it out for me) that humans have difficulty supporting several causes, and being active in each one of them. As a result, especially in this case, if you don't allow these workers to hunt, then their families won't be able to eat at night. To me, that's a problem far worse than the bludgening of a seal.

I have two questions, and I'll be done ;)

1. Do you have a problem with the manner in which they are killed, or that they are killed in the first place?

If your answer is the first, I can understand what you're saying and I agree with you. If it is the second, like it has been mentioned before several, several times by myself, Crazy Canuck, and Dementieva's fan, what is your solution for these people economically? If you have no solution economically, then your outlining of the faultiness of this system is a waste, for finding a positive change is much harder than to bitch.

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 02:46 AM
Wow, that went right over my head. :tape:

Naww, I see and respect what you're saying for the most part. I did engage in several assumptions, though it is far to say that many of these assumptions likely have a backing of truth.

I don't believe I assumed that these posters don't value human's lives. In fact, one poster mentioned how much of society ignored the genocide of Sudan (I think), but flocks to these cuddly creatures. It does not mean you value any life more than another, it's just we tend to ignore what's not "as pretty" as another. Not to say YOU do not, but it's very much human nature to flock to the most beautiful, that can not be denied.

That whole disrespected the dead, by posting the pictures was a little... off. In my "frame of reference", pictures of the dead aren't considered disrespectful... (I'm not exactly what sure you're getting at there the sentences are a little off grammatically). Then you went on a tangent of bitching about me... :tape: yes I'm silly, misguided and maybe a little fucked up, whoops don't forget I'm an asshole that only assumes (lol I can see where you get that from).

Now I can see what you're saying by the bottom, though I think (or maybe I'm assuming now, point it out for me) that humans have difficulty supporting several causes, and being active in each one of them. As a result, especially in this case, if you don't allow these workers to hunt, then their families won't be able to eat at night. To me, that's a problem far worse than the bludgening of a seal.

I have two questions, and I'll be done ;)

1. Do you have a problem with the manner in which they are killed, or that they are killed in the first place?

If your answer is the first, I can understand what you're saying and I agree with you. If it is the second, like it has been mentioned before several, several times by myself, Crazy Canuck, and Dementieva's fan, what is your solution for these people economically? If you have no solution economically, then your outlining of the faultiness of this system is a waste, for finding a positive change is much harder than to bitch.

1- its not just the posting of the pictures but the manner in which it is done. with a full lack of respect for the individuals. it does show, and your post above continues to show that your desire for "shock and awe" is more important than the the individual and how they lived their life and died. i doubt that the individual would want the picture of their dead body passed around on a message board. it probably missed you because you actually have to consider that the people in the picture is a human being who may not want to have the picture of their mangled body passed around a message board. once you consider that its easy to say why its disrespectful.

2- you can't admit to making assumptions about people and then get mad when people call you on it.. you made assumptions about everyone who cares about or signs these things, including me and gerri and many others. you admitted it, even if you didnt its clear that you did. thats all your argument is about assumptions and justifying violence.

3-my problem is largely in the MANNER in which they are killed. if the must be killed (and i do wonder if its a must or want) than there are hundreds of ways to do so humanely. to say that only some people do so inhumanely therefore everyone should get to kill them anyway they want is ridiculous. to so say that some americans must eat chicken that may or may not be treated humanely therefore NO one has a right" to complain that seal hunt is "cruel" " is idiocy and really little more than an excuse to justify violence.

there is a myth being spread that its a choice between cruelty and the death of the entire human population of these places, a number organizations have work out programs with native peoples that allow them to continue to hunt animals and fish, but help limit over-hunting and eliminate cruelty. its really a matter of willingness than ability

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 02:59 AM
1- its not just the posting of the pictures but the manner in which it is done. with a full lack of respect for the individuals. it does show, and your post above continues to show that your desire for "shock and awe" is more important than the the individual and how they lived their life and died. i doubt that the individual would want the picture of their dead body passed around on a message board. it probably missed you because you actually have to consider that the people in the picture is a human being who may not want to have the picture of their mangled body passed around a message board. once you consider that its easy to say why its disrespectful.

2- you can't admit to making assumptions about people and then say that you didnt mean them at posters. you made assumptions about everyone who cares about or signs these things, including me and gerri and many others.

3-my problem is largely in the MANNER in which they are killed. if the must be killed (and i do wonder if its a must or want) than there are hundreds of ways to do so humanely. to say that only some people do so inhumanely therefore everyone should get to kill them anyway they want is ridiculous. to so say that some americans must eat chicken that may or may not be treated humanely therefore NO one has a right" to complain that seal hunt is "cruel" " is idiocy and really little more than an excuse to justify violence.

there is a myth being spread that its a choice between cruelty and the death of the entire human population of these places, a number organizations have work out programs with native peoples that allow them to continue to hunt animals and fish, but help limit over-hunting and eliminate cruelty. its really a matter of willingness than ability

If you were to replace all the "I doubt" or "This shows", with "I think" you're pretty much assuming. Enough said.

I think you skipped the part about me saying, that in my opinion that image is not disrespectful to the man. In fact, with images such as that one, people are drawn to learn more about what their respective governments are doing in response to the slaughter of humans. To him, in fact, it may be desired that with his legacy, people will call to their Presidents, to their governors, that this must be stopped. Another assumption hidden away by an "I doubt".

I didn't intend that any of my comments were targeted at posters, with maybe the exception of once to Drake1980. Otherwise you're assuming, again, that one I said was an attack. I don't think I directly addressed someone, but as you've butchered already, it's possible I have. Just quote me :)

I thought someone already mentioned 90% hunt them with rifles. Please mention the other hundred ways that they can be killed humanely, yet keeping in mind efficiently. Maybe, we can give each one its own little election chair, or maybe use the guillotine. Is that more humane?

I never stated that because we eat inhumanely killed chickens, no one has a right to eat them. I just find it ironic we pick and choose what doesn't affect us to bitch about. That's all.

Sorry, this post comes off much ass-holier than I intend. I, myself, find it frustrating with much of the world complaining about these (mostly) poor seal farmers, and fail to pay attention to what's goin on in their own backyards, to their own peoples. If people spent half this much time with the homeless, that word would be history.

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 03:52 AM
If you were to replace all the "I doubt" or "This shows", with "I think" you're pretty much assuming. Enough said.

I think you skipped the part about me saying, that in my opinion that image is not disrespectful to the man. In fact, with images such as that one, people are drawn to learn more about what their respective governments are doing in response to the slaughter of humans. To him, in fact, it may be desired that with his legacy, people will call to their Presidents, to their governors, that this must be stopped. Another assumption hidden away by an "I doubt".

I didn't intend that any of my comments were targeted at posters, with maybe the exception of once to Drake1980. Otherwise you're assuming, again, that one I said was an attack. I don't think I directly addressed someone, but as you've butchered already, it's possible I have. Just quote me :)

I thought someone already mentioned 90% hunt them with rifles. Please mention the other hundred ways that they can be killed humanely, yet keeping in mind efficiently. Maybe, we can give each one its own little election chair, or maybe use the guillotine. Is that more humane?

I never stated that because we eat inhumanely killed chickens, no one has a right to eat them. I just find it ironic we pick and choose what doesn't affect us to bitch about. That's all.

Sorry, this post comes off much ass-holier than I intend. I, myself, find it frustrating with much of the world complaining about these (mostly) poor seal farmers, and fail to pay attention to what's goin on in their own backyards, to their own peoples. If people spent half this much time with the homeless, that word would be history.
1-replacing what actually said with what ever random mess you want is changing what i said.

2-i was qouting a direct statement about animal cruelty and was part of my original beef. i do understand that some statements are made by some people and others by others. i, however, did not attribrute that quote to you. "Yet some people have the audacity to complain that seal hunt is "cruel". when 90% of the seals are shot and only 10% are clubbed. And here's some truth about clubbing"

3-you can find ironic what you like, but its the assumptions that base this, and the judgments it leads to thats the problem. its like your statement about people who "fail to pay attention to whats goin on thier own backyards, to their own peoples." but you dont KNOW and didnt ASK how or if they are doing anything what they know and dont know do and dont do about whats going on around them...

4- again because 90% are killed "humanely" does not mean that its ok for the other 10% to do what they want. this is a ridiculous argument. and is just plain wrong.

5- see thats what you believe (about the persons in the picture) but respect means that you consider THAT particular individual, which you didnt and still dont in post that picture. all you are talking is how it makes you feel, but maybe, just maybe, that person doesnt want images their mangled body passed around for entertainment on a message board. its not that hard. not to mention that you dont know the person or what they would and never considered it. still are not considering that person and what they would want.

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 10:34 AM
1-replacing what actually said with what ever random mess you want is changing what i said.

2-i was qouting a direct statement about animal cruelty and was part of my original beef. i do understand that some statements are made by some people and others by others. i, however, did not attribrute that quote to you. "Yet some people have the audacity to complain that seal hunt is "cruel". when 90% of the seals are shot and only 10% are clubbed. And here's some truth about clubbing"

3-you can find ironic what you like, but its the assumptions that base this, and the judgments it leads to thats the problem. its like your statement about people who "fail to pay attention to whats goin on thier own backyards, to their own peoples." but you dont KNOW and didnt ASK how or if they are doing anything what they know and dont know do and dont do about whats going on around them...

4- again because 90% are killed "humanely" does not mean that its ok for the other 10% to do what they want. this is a ridiculous argument. and is just plain wrong.

5- see thats what you believe (about the persons in the picture) but respect means that you consider THAT particular individual, which you didnt and still dont in post that picture. all you are talking is how it makes you feel, but maybe, just maybe, that person doesnt want images their mangled body passed around for entertainment on a message board. its not that hard. not to mention that you dont know the person or what they would and never considered it. still are not considering that person and what they would want.

Let's talk about the seals. Talking about how week my argument is, because of assumptions, and my silly mess of words, is tempting, but I'd rather discuss the seals. Please and Thank you. :)

tennislover
Mar 28th, 2006, 11:08 AM
How is the slaughtering of a man stupid :sad: ?

i meant posting that horrible, disturbing photo
you obviously have no respect for anyone and anything......
from now you are in my ignore list
please do the same thing with my nickname.......

tennislover
Mar 28th, 2006, 11:21 AM
1- its not just the posting of the pictures but the manner in which it is done. with a full lack of respect for the individuals. it does show, and your post above continues to show that your desire for "shock and awe" is more important than the the individual and how they lived their life and died. i doubt that the individual would want the picture of their dead body passed around on a message board. it probably missed you because you actually have to consider that the people in the picture is a human being who may not want to have the picture of their mangled body passed around a message board. once you consider that its easy to say why its disrespectful.

2- you can't admit to making assumptions about people and then get mad when people call you on it.. you made assumptions about everyone who cares about or signs these things, including me and gerri and many others. you admitted it, even if you didnt its clear that you did. thats all your argument is about assumptions and justifying violence.

3-my problem is largely in the MANNER in which they are killed. if the must be killed (and i do wonder if its a must or want) than there are hundreds of ways to do so humanely. to say that only some people do so inhumanely therefore everyone should get to kill them anyway they want is ridiculous. to so say that some americans must eat chicken that may or may not be treated humanely therefore NO one has a right" to complain that seal hunt is "cruel" " is idiocy and really little more than an excuse to justify violence.

there is a myth being spread that its a choice between cruelty and the death of the entire human population of these places, a number organizations have work out programs with native peoples that allow them to continue to hunt animals and fish, but help limit over-hunting and eliminate cruelty. its really a matter of willingness than ability

i totally agree

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 11:36 AM
i meant posting that horrible, disturbing photo
you obviously have no respect for anyone and anything......
from now you are in my ignore list
please do the same thing with my nickname.......

There's obvious a difference between the two of us. I never run away from my problems.

dementieva's fan
Mar 28th, 2006, 02:12 PM
2-i was qouting a direct statement about animal cruelty and was part of my original beef. i do understand that some statements are made by some people and others by others. i, however, did not attribrute that quote to you. "Yet some people have the audacity to complain that seal hunt is "cruel". when 90% of the seals are shot and only 10% are clubbed. And here's some truth about clubbing"

You COMPLETELY missed the point there, I'm not advocating crueity against chickens, my point was that people are wasting their time and energy just for the sake of 10% of seals while at the same time 95% of animals in your slaughter houses are killed in the most inhuman way. And you guys should be more concerened since many americans eat chicken and thus are indirectly contributing to their slaughter. The seal hunt is getting far more attention than the slaughtering of chickens and other animals or even humans and if these people would just spend their time and energy working for these chickens and humans the world would be a better place, but they don't. Some poster in this thread are active supporters of slaughter of humans while others eat animals. I don't know about you but I find that hard to digest when at one time you have no problem with the slaughter of chickens and other animals the number whom being slaughtered is exponentially higher than the no of seals killed, but you suddenly find it cruel when 90% seals are killed in the most human way and rest 10 % are killed in a way which thousands of time humane than practices in your slaughter houses. :rolleyes: (Again this may not be true for you but do you seriously think that the average joe protesting this seal hunt gives a fuck about cruelity agianst chickens?). That's hypocrisy

Also I don't have to make any kind of assumptions . Its a fact the the cuteness of the seals is huge factor in them getting sympathy, the evidence exists right on this board just compare the number of thread for seals to the number of threads for chickens :tape:

James
Mar 28th, 2006, 02:14 PM
Realism is only negative when reality is negative, dear. Idealism, on the other hand, is just foolish ;)

I would be happy to hear what other ecomonic opportunities exist in the regions where seal hunting takes places (aside from fishing and what not, since I fail to put one animal above the other here, unlike some posters here). Realistically, I'm not seeing too many. It's all well and good to say "well there must be something" - but unless somebody with an understanding of the region (and I confess that I am not an expert myself, but I do at least have an understanding of the climate) has some examples to offer, than it means diddly. Good intentions aren't much use if they aren't working within reality ;)

But I never implied reality wasn't negative. Yet you seemed to go to the other side and totally exclude every other possibility, which I thought was too negative. I am not an expert on the region either, so I can't specify any option without looking into it. But starting off without any intention or belief in the good is even more harmful than going in with good intentions.

Sally Struthers
Mar 28th, 2006, 03:54 PM
If anyone needs me to protest, give me a ring. I gotta send the mink coat to the cleaners first. :bolt: ;)

Crazy Canuck
Mar 28th, 2006, 04:28 PM
But I never implied reality wasn't negative. Yet you seemed to go to the other side and totally exclude every other possibility, which I thought was too negative. I am not an expert on the region either, so I can't specify any option without looking into it. But starting off without any intention or belief in the good is even more harmful than going in with good intentions.
I believe in the positive where there is positive. I'm not seeing too many other options up there. As I said, I'd love to hear that there are some. I'm just... not seein' it :(

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 06:14 PM
You COMPLETELY missed the point there, I'm not advocating crueity against chickens, my point was that people are wasting their time and energy just for the sake of 10% of seals while at the same time 95% of animals in your slaughter houses are killed in the most inhuman way. And you guys should be more concerened since many americans eat chicken and thus are indirectly contributing to their slaughter. The seal hunt is getting far more attention than the slaughtering of chickens and other animals or even humans and if these people would just spend their time and energy working for these chickens and humans the world would be a better place, but they don't. Some poster in this thread are active supporters of slaughter of humans while others eat animals. I don't know about you but I find that hard to digest when at one time you have no problem with the slaughter of chickens and other animals the number whom being slaughtered is exponentially higher than the no of seals killed, but you suddenly find it cruel when 90% seals are killed in the most human way and rest 10 % are killed in a way which thousands of time humane than practices in your slaughter houses. :rolleyes: (Again this may not be true for you but do you seriously think that the average joe protesting this seal hunt gives a fuck about cruelity agianst chickens?). That's hypocrisy

Also I don't have to make any kind of assumptions . Its a fact the the cuteness of the seals is huge factor in them getting sympathy, the evidence exists right on this board just compare the number of thread for seals to the number of threads for chickens :tape:

no i understood you point very clearly, in fact you repeat it here. because SOME people eat chickens from slaughter houses therefore you get to make assumptions and judge EVERYONE who questions the humanity of clubbing seals. its lame, its wrongs, and it has NO merits (no matter how you spin it) now if you ASKED people where they stood on issues, rather than using your assumptions to judge them (and to justify violence against seals and chicken and anything you deem that there is something "worse" out there) than maybe, just maybe, you might stumble into something relevant.

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 06:15 PM
There's obvious a difference between the two of us. I never run away from my problems.
:bs: see post #89... enough said...

James
Mar 28th, 2006, 06:44 PM
I believe in the positive where there is positive. I'm not seeing too many other options up there. As I said, I'd love to hear that there are some. I'm just... not seein' it :(

Let us both examine the region more closely and maybe we, as two intelligent people, can come up with something.

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 06:57 PM
:bs: see post #89... enough said...

:tape: What assumptions are you making now based upon my post?

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Let us both examine the region more closely and maybe we, as two intelligent people, can come up with something.

NFLD had the opportunity to harbour a massive oil deposit called "Hibernia" right off the eastern coast. I think there were some problems with the people getting hurt based on safety concerns that essentially shut off the operation. That was roughly a year ago, I'm not sure what they're doing now.

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:00 PM
:tape: What assumptions are you making now based upon my post?
i made nono and said none. i just said the post number... now unless saying "look at your own past posts" is "making assumptions" you are just in a thread without a point to stand on. :wavey:

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:06 PM
i made no and said none. i just sad the post number... now unless saying "look at your own past posts" is "making assumptions" you are just in a thread without a point to stand on. :wavey:

Now I understand why I was warned that debating with you is like trying to argue with a 2 yr old. :tape:

(But a smart 2 yr old, who could prolly kick your ass :p)

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Now I understand why I was warned that debating with you is like trying to argue with a 2 yr old. :tape:

(But a smart 2 yr old, who could prolly kick your ass :p)
wow way to remain mature, on topic and directly respond to questions addressed at you, no runaway for you, because you dont run away.

(for the record i did assume one thing about post #89 (all of your posts really), i assumed that you mean what you say and understand the things you type... i was wrong, clearly, and i am sorry).

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:17 PM
wow way to remain mature, on topic and directly respond to questions addressed at you, no runaway for you, because you dont run away.

(for the record i did assume one thing about post #89 (all of your posts really), i assumed that you mean what you say and understand the things you type... i was wrong, clearly, and i am sorry).

Your proved my point, now you being the whiny two yr old isn't an assumption. Thanks bud. :)

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:27 PM
Your proved my point, now you being the whiny two yr old isn't an assumption. Thanks bud. :)
like i said i was wrong, and i am sorry. would you like to delete my post where i point to your post 89. i should of never made such assumptions and am more than willing to delete that post... :)

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:28 PM
like i said i was wrong, and i am sorry. would you like to delete my post where i point to your post 89. i should of never made such assumptions and am more than willing to delete that post... :)

lol Now I feel guilty. What about screw our argument, and be friends (or archrivals... BITCH :fiery: ;)).

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:36 PM
lol Now I feel guilty. What about screw our argument, and be friends (or archrivals... BITCH :fiery: ;)).
no need, i was just wrong, but i missed something, what was that about how you wanted to focus on the seals (also post 89#) , i know its wrong to assume you mean what you say, i cant help myself. :banghead: :banghead: :awww: :banghead: this is a bad habit i have. i need to work on it i guess.

so i am confused do you want to talk about the seals or not. i know you are saying two different things but i should not assume you mean what you say, and it puts me in a bad position in try to understand you.

416_Man
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:40 PM
no need, i was just wrong, but i missed something, what was that about how you wanted to focus on the seals (also post 89#) , i know its wrong to assume you mean what you say, i cant help myself. :banghead: :banghead: :awww: :banghead: this is a bad habit i have. i need to work on it i guess.

so i am confused do you want to talk about the seals or not. i know you are saying two different things but i should not assume you mean what you say, and it puts me in a bad position in try to understand you.

ummm I think I should take a break with the seal debate, there are many others who have greater eloquence and are better at explaining. I myself, get way too dramatic (see all my posts :tape: ). Thanks for the discussion though, I've come out seeing a new side, I had neglected at first.

Wigglytuff
Mar 28th, 2006, 07:46 PM
ummm I think I should take a break with the seal debate, there are many others who have greater eloquence and are better at explaining. I myself, get way too dramatic (see all my posts :tape: ). Thanks for the discussion though, I've come out seeing a new side, I had neglected at first.
ok so you dont want to talk about the seals. again i am sorry for assuming you mean what you say.

http://www.ezthemes.com/previews/f/flowers.jpg
a sign of my apologizes :awww: :awww: :awww: