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spiceboy
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:42 PM
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1411140.cms

Seranade over?
RUHI BATRA
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/images/spacer.gif
TIMES NEWS NETWORKhttp://economictimes.indiatimes.com/images/spacer.gif[ SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2006 01:47:30 AM]

Commentators often remind us that “being hungry” is fundamental to success, though in all probability they were not re-ferring to the same desire that has you reaching for the handle on the fridge. Serena Williams seems to have messed up on that fundamental.

She no longer gets out of bed being the best at what she does best — playing tennis. She wakes up in an alien world, where for the first time in eight years, Serena finds herself ranked out of the Top 20.

Languishing at 37, the former world champion is today an over-weight, distant version of the champion who was ruthless on the tennis court, who used to smack winners at will as she defended the baseline with the grace of a panther and the speed of a gazelle.

After recording her first career-loss to Daniela Hantochova in the third round of the Australian Open, Serena’s ranking has plummeted to five places below our own Sania Mirza - not necessarily an indicator of Sania’s phenomenal growth but a pointer to the sad and steady decline of a world class athlete.

Since winning at Melbourne in 2005, Serena hasn't reached another final, and in her last three Grand Slam events, she has struggled to progress beyond the fourth round. Her 2005 Australian Open victory is beginning to look more like an irregularity now instead of a precursor to another dominant phase.

The signs of decline have been there but we just dismissed them hoping she would come back, like she always does. Serena’s success has been as much the result of her power game as of her iron will. She has always believed that she could beat anyone, anywhere, anytime and for years, she did that.

On her own terms.That Friday three weeks, when Hantuchova took the lead, Serena appeared unusually at peace with the result. “I was really calm,” was her muted reaction. The criticism wasn’t.

The sharp-tongued Nick Bollettieri wrote: “You are not physically fit, and you no longer control the centre of the court. I can’t help but believe something is lost.” Is Serena disturbed by the fact that she's not even in the Top 10?

As an athlete, it would be impossible for her not to flinch everytime she saw her name below players that were till last year, easy pickings for her. Perhaps Serena is growing accustomed to the prospect of a life beyond tennis.

In the past couple of years, tennis has had to fight for space with her fashion aspirations and television commitments. Less than fit for the rigours of the WTA Tour, injuries, new and recurrent, kept her off the court but not out of the news. She found time to design clothes and earrings and star in every popular American soap. Pity, she forgot about tennis.

At the US Open last year, she appeared to be more concerned with having the bling than the game. Even in Melbourne, Serena was more into shopping than training. Over-weight and rusty, the younger Williams sibling opted to spending her time and money in the Wayne Cooper boutique trying on couture dresses and sunglasses.

Also, the pressure of being the highest paid woman athlete after the deal with Nike might have been too much to handle.Maybe it’s just a passing phase and some day, not too far from today, Serena Williams will dominate the game. The skills are there, only the will is missing.

From knocking ratty, old balls against a concrete wall in Compton, Serena made it to world champion. Surely she can conquer 36 ranking spots to become a tennis diva again.

tenn_ace
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:46 PM
From knocking ratty, old balls against a concrete wall in Compton, Serena made it to world champion. Surely she can conquer 36 ranking spots to become a tennis diva again.

I don't think so. She's not hungry anymore and she has other sources of income. Easier ones.

AkademiQ
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:46 PM
All Serena needs to do is retire and then come back in about 2 to 3 years. Go for it Serena :yeah:

Sally Struthers
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Commentators often remind us that “being hungry” is fundamental to success, though in all probability they were not re-ferring to the same desire that has you reaching for the handle on the fridge. Serena Williams seems to have messed up on that fundamental.


:lol:

SvetaPleaseWin.
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:49 PM
the biggest problem with serena is that she realises how good she is. even though she's 44 in the rankings she believes she's no. 1, serena is open in saying she doesn't like training.

hopefully she'll take the time to get herself back to full fitness and playing at least half decent before making a return to competition. i wouldn't bet against serena winning the french.

jonny84
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:53 PM
Serena will comeback; she knows she has at least three more years of good tennis in her and is capable of winning another slam.

Rocketta
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:54 PM
:yawn:

jimbo mack
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:57 PM
what a depressing article :sad:

CrossCourt~Rally
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:58 PM
Maybe she does need to take the rest of the year or so off...do all of the fun things she wants to do. Then sometime late this year or early next year start full time training again and comeback sometime during the late winter/ early spring of 2007. Maybe that will give her the time to do all of this ShowBiz Glitz that she enjoyes doing at the moment and satisfy that that interest in her life for now . It will also give her the time away from tennis that she apparently needs... :shrug:
Lots of players do it...i think that would be better then w hat she is doing now..going out there half heartedly. I am sure she would come back strong as ever next year after a break... :D :bounce:

Kart
Feb 13th, 2006, 05:59 PM
:yawn:

:zzz:

Aquanetta
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:02 PM
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1411140.cms

Seranade over?
RUHI BATRA
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/images/spacer.gif
TIMES NEWS NETWORKhttp://economictimes.indiatimes.com/images/spacer.gif[ SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2006 01:47:30 AM]

Commentators often remind us that “being hungry” is fundamental to success, though in all probability they were not re-ferring to the same desire that has you reaching for the handle on the fridge. Serena Williams seems to have messed up on that fundamental.

She no longer gets out of bed being the best at what she does best — playing tennis. She wakes up in an alien world, where for the first time in eight years, Serena finds herself ranked out of the Top 20.

Languishing at 37, the former world champion is today an over-weight, distant version of the champion who was ruthless on the tennis court, who used to smack winners at will as she defended the baseline with the grace of a panther and the speed of a gazelle.

After recording her first career-loss to Daniela Hantochova in the third round of the Australian Open, Serena’s ranking has plummeted to five places below our own Sania Mirza - not necessarily an indicator of Sania’s phenomenal growth but a pointer to the sad and steady decline of a world class athlete.

Since winning at Melbourne in 2005, Serena hasn't reached another final, and in her last three Grand Slam events, she has struggled to progress beyond the fourth round. Her 2005 Australian Open victory is beginning to look more like an irregularity now instead of a precursor to another dominant phase.

The signs of decline have been there but we just dismissed them hoping she would come back, like she always does. Serena’s success has been as much the result of her power game as of her iron will. She has always believed that she could beat anyone, anywhere, anytime and for years, she did that.

On her own terms.That Friday three weeks, when Hantuchova took the lead, Serena appeared unusually at peace with the result. “I was really calm,” was her muted reaction. The criticism wasn’t.

The sharp-tongued Nick Bollettieri wrote: “You are not physically fit, and you no longer control the centre of the court. I can’t help but believe something is lost.” Is Serena disturbed by the fact that she's not even in the Top 10?

As an athlete, it would be impossible for her not to flinch everytime she saw her name below players that were till last year, easy pickings for her. Perhaps Serena is growing accustomed to the prospect of a life beyond tennis.

In the past couple of years, tennis has had to fight for space with her fashion aspirations and television commitments. Less than fit for the rigours of the WTA Tour, injuries, new and recurrent, kept her off the court but not out of the news. She found time to design clothes and earrings and star in every popular American soap. Pity, she forgot about tennis.

At the US Open last year, she appeared to be more concerned with having the bling than the game. Even in Melbourne, Serena was more into shopping than training. Over-weight and rusty, the younger Williams sibling opted to spending her time and money in the Wayne Cooper boutique trying on couture dresses and sunglasses.

Also, the pressure of being the highest paid woman athlete after the deal with Nike might have been too much to handle.Maybe it’s just a passing phase and some day, not too far from today, Serena Williams will dominate the game. The skills are there, only the will is missing.

From knocking ratty, old balls against a concrete wall in Compton, Serena made it to world champion. Surely she can conquer 36 ranking spots to become a tennis diva again.

Ruhi Batra read my mind! :worship:

pcrtennis
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:02 PM
She's not done.

tenn_ace
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Here is what I think (without knocking Serena down)

Serena is a businesswoman. Her time is her capital, so she wants the best return on invested time. The return from investments in tennis (prize money) will never compare to the return from her other activities. Investments in tennis were smart when she needed her celebrity status. She has it now, so it's smart to diversify the investments. She's doing it.

She is basically becoming a better tennis wise version of Anna IMO.

Veenut
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:10 PM
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1411140.cms

Seranade over?
RUHI BATRA
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/images/spacer.gif
TIMES NEWS NETWORKhttp://economictimes.indiatimes.com/images/spacer.gif[ SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2006 01:47:30 AM]


Maybe it’s just a passing phase and some day, not too far from today, Serena Williams will dominate the game. The skills are there, only the will is missing.

From knocking ratty, old balls against a concrete wall in Compton, Serena made it to world champion. Surely she can conquer 36 ranking spots to become a tennis diva again.

OK Sunset, here is an article provided so that you don't have to spend all day on the computer. I guess to your horror, there are people who want Serena to dominate again and say so. Also please note, she's not retired, she is just not playing well and everyone seem to have their opinion as to why.

SelesFan70
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:24 PM
the biggest problem with serena is that she realises how good she is. even though she's 44 in the rankings she believes she's no. 1, serena is open in saying she doesn't like training.

hopefully she'll take the time to get herself back to full fitness and playing at least half decent before making a return to competition. i wouldn't bet against serena winning the french.

Ah, but the question is...does the rest of the tour believe Serena is still #1? I think the answer is an emphatic "No" and that makes all the difference in the world of professional tennis.

Denise4925
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:42 PM
I think spiceboy and sunset should have a contest to see who can find the most articles and pictures of the WS. Serena in particular. :)

TheBoiledEgg
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:52 PM
make her sound like Mike Tyson without the debt and the aggro.

Denise4925
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:53 PM
make her sound like Mike Tyson without the debt and the aggro.
:scratch:

TheBoiledEgg
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:58 PM
:scratch:

this bit
"Languishing at 37, the former world champion is today an over-weight, distant version of the champion who was ruthless on the tennis court, who used to smack winners at will as she defended the baseline with the grace of a panther and the speed of a gazelle".

LefandePatty
Feb 13th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Serena :wavey:

Marcell
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:04 PM
Here is what I think (without knocking Serena down)

Serena is a businesswoman. Her time is her capital, so she wants the best return on invested time. The return from investments in tennis (prize money) will never compare to the return from her other activities. Investments in tennis were smart when she needed her celebrity status. She has it now, so it's smart to diversify the investments. She's doing it.

She is basically becoming a better tennis wise version of Anna IMO.

I too believe Serena is establishing her business ventures at this time.February seems to be a very important time in her calendar because shopping will be launch on the Aneres site this month.

TomTennis
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:06 PM
People are always going to say this, whether they are winning big titles or not. I just dont care.

Serena and Venus will keep winning Big titles, and prove these commentators wrong, like they have done so many times in the past.

Mother_Marjorie
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:11 PM
As long as Serena is happy, that's all that really matters. In the article, they persistently noted her lower ranking, which by all accounts, means absolutely nothing when it comes to Serena Williams.

She can beat any woman's player in the WTA at-will.

Enough said.

Ballbasher
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:11 PM
poor Serena :sad:

Pureracket
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:14 PM
....and the saga continues. Something tells me we'll get another article next week on one of the Sisters. Where would the tennis world be without them? Seriously.

Brooks.
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:15 PM
only Serena can decide what the rest of her tennis career will be...if she wants more slams and the number 1 ranking bad enough then she'll get it....if she decides to do other things well there's not really much any of us can do about it....regardless she should be proud of the career that she has had and at the end of the day if she's happy with it then that's all the matters

Smeagol
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:22 PM
I don't think so. She's not hungry anymore and she has other sources of income. Easier ones.

Serena is still hungry but not for tennis :rolls: :banana:

tennisjay
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:26 PM
I wish they would just leave the girl alone, dang this what they wanted now they need to deal with it.

RVD
Feb 13th, 2006, 07:55 PM
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/eye_anim.gifhttp://deephousepage.com/smilies/eye_anim.gif - Sees article title...

:yawn: - Reads article...

:zzz: - Rates article...

...places article neatly at bottom of Popcorn, the hamster, cage.

Sinnet
Feb 13th, 2006, 08:05 PM
The debate or topic at hand isn't whether or not Serena possesses the skill or ability to still beat anyone, but rather whether or not Serena possesses the hunger. That's what the article was about, so with that said, why are people saying "It doesn't matter, she can beat anyone" ?

Truth is, the writer (as he hinted toward the end of his column) and most tennis fans want to see the Serena Williams that won seven grand slams back. It's no longer a matter of her being injured (she's not) or not being in shape (she's had time), it's about whether she wants to commit.

When she looked overweight in Australia, yeah, I made fun, but deep down I knew that she could still win it based on her talent alone. Unfortunately, her lack of play cost her the match, as it has her last few matches before the Australian Open.

Committing to tennis means more than being fit or practicing, it means competing, winning or losing, and continuing to grow. Serena's problem has been the fact that she'll play, lose, and then take a month or two off. That skips over the growing process.

More than anything, I disagree with anyone that says she can't have outside interests. I'm all for her doing outside things. The problem here, and this is what so many sports and tennis writers/commentators are saying, is that she's doing those interests and then showing up to tennis matches unprepared. The tennis world is sick of the excuses, and now that her ranking is taking some consequences for it, it's only going to cause more stir.

I just hope her ranking wakes her up a bit. Someone with that much power, talent, speed and ability shouldn't be ranked 37 (and falling) in the world. If she can strike a balance between her Aneres things and other outside interests along with tennis, and put in the time she needs, compete in tournaments, stay fit and healthy, she can do both and do both successfully.

Right now, she's doing her fashion deal, and then coming up with excuses for her tennis things, and quite frankly, people are sick of it. WS fans: obviously you don't like hearing Serena ragged on for her fall, but what I think many of you are failing to realize, is people rag on her because of how much talent she possesses, and nobody wants to see that go to waste.

I do think Serena needs to do what makes her happy: and if that's fashion and not tennis, then please, Serena, hang up the racquet and do fashion. I'd be happier to see that than to see you constantly show up at events unprepared... or not show up at all.

jogoss_78
Feb 13th, 2006, 08:12 PM
:lol: Serena doesn't even care about what people say :lol:
She will prove them wrong anyway
Go babygirl :D

RVD
Feb 13th, 2006, 08:44 PM
The debate or topic at hand isn't whether or not Serena possesses the skill or ability to still beat anyone, but rather whether or not Serena possesses the hunger. That's what the article was about, so with that said, why are people saying "It doesn't matter, she can beat anyone" ?

Truth is, the writer (as he hinted toward the end of his column) and most tennis fans want to see the Serena Williams that won seven grand slams back. It's no longer a matter of her being injured (she's not) or not being in shape (she's had time), it's about whether she wants to commit.

When she looked overweight in Australia, yeah, I made fun, but deep down I knew that she could still win it based on her talent alone. Unfortunately, her lack of play cost her the match, as it has her last few matches before the Australian Open.

Committing to tennis means more than being fit or practicing, it means competing, winning or losing, and continuing to grow. Serena's problem has been the fact that she'll play, lose, and then take a month or two off. That skips over the growing process.

More than anything, I disagree with anyone that says she can't have outside interests. I'm all for her doing outside things. The problem here, and this is what so many sports and tennis writers/commentators are saying, is that she's doing those interests and then showing up to tennis matches unprepared. The tennis world is sick of the excuses, and now that her ranking is taking some consequences for it, it's only going to cause more stir.

I just hope her ranking wakes her up a bit. Someone with that much power, talent, speed and ability shouldn't be ranked 37 (and falling) in the world. If she can strike a balance between her Aneres things and other outside interests along with tennis, and put in the time she needs, compete in tournaments, stay fit and healthy, she can do both and do both successfully.

Right now, she's doing her fashion deal, and then coming up with excuses for her tennis things, and quite frankly, people are sick of it. WS fans: obviously you don't like hearing Serena ragged on for her fall, but what I think many of you are failing to realize, is people rag on her because of how much talent she possesses, and nobody wants to see that go to waste.

I do think Serena needs to do what makes her happy: and if that's fashion and not tennis, then please, Serena, hang up the racquet and do fashion. I'd be happier to see that than to see you constantly show up at events unprepared... or not show up at all.This diehard fan of Serena hears what you're saying. However, what many of us Serena fans truly DON'T LIKE is regardless of whether Serena is doing great of not, she is constantly ragged on. So what difference does one more article on Serena's 'faults' mean to us?

Nada.

Hence, the 'sleepy', 'boring' smilies.
It's just another piss on Serena [and your article sells] because she's Serena.
And quite frankly, years of this sort of article, like so many 'crying wolf' articles, we can honestly do without.

Look, Serena is no different in that she has outside pursuits. Many of the top players do. :shrug: But where are the same disparaging articles on them?
When it comes to Serena, the media world (journalists, sports writers) seem to develop a temporary mental affliction that makes them write crazy shit. This article is no different.

We Serena supporters, know Serena is going through a period that she will need to resolve...just as any other WTA player has/had. But it would certainly be nice if for once, these so-called writers would take that into account. :wavey:

hablo
Feb 13th, 2006, 08:47 PM
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/eye_anim.gifhttp://deephousepage.com/smilies/eye_anim.gif - Sees article title...

:yawn: - Reads article...

:zzz: - Rates article...

...places article neatly at bottom of Popcorn, the hamster, cage.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ReeVeeDynasty again.:haha:

sunset
Feb 13th, 2006, 08:57 PM
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1411140.cms

Seranade over?
RUHI BATRA
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/images/spacer.gif
TIMES NEWS NETWORKhttp://economictimes.indiatimes.com/images/spacer.gif[ SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2006 01:47:30 AM]

Commentators often remind us that “being hungry” is fundamental to success, though in all probability they were not re-ferring to the same desire that has you reaching for the handle on the fridge. Serena Williams seems to have messed up on that fundamental.

She no longer gets out of bed being the best at what she does best — playing tennis. She wakes up in an alien world, where for the first time in eight years, Serena finds herself ranked out of the Top 20.

Languishing at 37, the former world champion is today an over-weight, distant version of the champion who was ruthless on the tennis court, who used to smack winners at will as she defended the baseline with the grace of a panther and the speed of a gazelle.

After recording her first career-loss to Daniela Hantochova in the third round of the Australian Open, Serena’s ranking has plummeted to five places below our own Sania Mirza - not necessarily an indicator of Sania’s phenomenal growth but a pointer to the sad and steady decline of a world class athlete.

Since winning at Melbourne in 2005, Serena hasn't reached another final, and in her last three Grand Slam events, she has struggled to progress beyond the fourth round. Her 2005 Australian Open victory is beginning to look more like an irregularity now instead of a precursor to another dominant phase.

The signs of decline have been there but we just dismissed them hoping she would come back, like she always does. Serena’s success has been as much the result of her power game as of her iron will. She has always believed that she could beat anyone, anywhere, anytime and for years, she did that.

On her own terms.That Friday three weeks, when Hantuchova took the lead, Serena appeared unusually at peace with the result. “I was really calm,” was her muted reaction. The criticism wasn’t.

The sharp-tongued Nick Bollettieri wrote: “You are not physically fit, and you no longer control the centre of the court. I can’t help but believe something is lost.” Is Serena disturbed by the fact that she's not even in the Top 10?

As an athlete, it would be impossible for her not to flinch everytime she saw her name below players that were till last year, easy pickings for her. Perhaps Serena is growing accustomed to the prospect of a life beyond tennis.

In the past couple of years, tennis has had to fight for space with her fashion aspirations and television commitments. Less than fit for the rigours of the WTA Tour, injuries, new and recurrent, kept her off the court but not out of the news. She found time to design clothes and earrings and star in every popular American soap. Pity, she forgot about tennis.

At the US Open last year, she appeared to be more concerned with having the bling than the game. Even in Melbourne, Serena was more into shopping than training. Over-weight and rusty, the younger Williams sibling opted to spending her time and money in the Wayne Cooper boutique trying on couture dresses and sunglasses.

Also, the pressure of being the highest paid woman athlete after the deal with Nike might have been too much to handle.Maybe it’s just a passing phase and some day, not too far from today, Serena Williams will dominate the game. The skills are there, only the will is missing.

From knocking ratty, old balls against a concrete wall in Compton, Serena made it to world champion. Surely she can conquer 36 ranking spots to become a tennis diva again.

It's Over!

Pureracket
Feb 13th, 2006, 09:09 PM
It's Over!It doesn't negate the fact that it existed, though, hon.:wavey:

morningglory
Feb 13th, 2006, 09:09 PM
:rolleyes:
They seem to be delighted Serena is ranked lower than Sania now.... :rolleyes:
And I heard she was gonna fall to 70? Wow... I wouldn't wanna imagine what kind of articles that'll generate..... :rolleyes:

TSequoia01
Feb 13th, 2006, 09:09 PM
It will take a large amount of work and mental discipline for Serena to get back. Serena has been on the decline since 2002 where she peaked. The talent remains but she has to improve in all phases to reassert her dominance......not sure she can do it. But I learned a long time ago never count either sister out!

sweetiepiedoll
Feb 13th, 2006, 09:13 PM
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/eye_anim.gifhttp://deephousepage.com/smilies/eye_anim.gif - Sees article title...

:yawn: - Reads article...

:zzz: - Rates article...

...places article neatly at bottom of Popcorn, the hamster, cage.

You should consider being a judge on American Idol because you are hilarious. :lol: :lol:

Cam'ron Giles
Feb 13th, 2006, 09:31 PM
A Williams will win Miami...mark my words...:D

korben
Feb 13th, 2006, 09:35 PM
Whoa ! She still playing !

Stop Press !!!

Serena is toast, live with it. Damn, she might reach her mothers size come 30....

Venus is real deal. Was outplayed by "youngster" but has all tools to become "great". Sis was that for couple years, but to become Great one has to be that in two decades.

Venus can. Serena can´t.

new-york
Feb 13th, 2006, 09:35 PM
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/eye_anim.gifhttp://deephousepage.com/smilies/eye_anim.gif - Sees article title...

:yawn: - Reads article...

:zzz: - Rates article...

...places article neatly at bottom of Popcorn, the hamster, cage.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

SAEKeithSerena
Feb 13th, 2006, 09:53 PM
the biggest problem with serena is that she realises how good she is. even though she's 44 in the rankings she believes she's no. 1, serena is open in saying she doesn't like training.

hopefully she'll take the time to get herself back to full fitness and playing at least half decent before making a return to competition. i wouldn't bet against serena winning the french.


well said:worship:

iWill
Feb 13th, 2006, 10:04 PM
I hear and read all these things people say about Serena and yet it still doesnt change how I feel about her. I also think she is still the best woman on the WTA tour. She obviously isnt playing her best but I think everyone is overlooking the fact that if she hadnt been injured 2005 wouldn'tve been a dismal year for Serena. She was hurt and so she couldnt do much. I do however believe that she wasnt all that motivated to get back into top form and you have to wonder if you were in her shoes would you? I mean she just came off winning the Australian Open and she wasnt fully fit then. She still had that slight injury she got in the YEC final in 2004. Yet she still beat the worlds top 3 players to win the title. I mean if i could do that and I wasnt at my best I wouldnt be in a hurry to kill myself in the gym to catch up with them while I was healthy. I think when she got hurt though she already wasnt completly fit and healthy and so when she couldnt do anything at all it caught up to her. I dont see her ranking as a problem because as long as she is training and practiving NOW when she does come back she'll be better then ever.

Denise4925
Feb 13th, 2006, 10:06 PM
This diehard fan of Serena hears what you're saying. However, what many of us Serena fans truly DON'T LIKE is regardless of whether Serena is doing great of not, she is constantly ragged on. So what difference does one more article on Serena's 'faults' mean to us?

Nada.

Hence, the 'sleepy', 'boring' smilies.
It's just another piss on Serena [and your article sells] because she's Serena.
And quite frankly, years of this sort of article, like so many 'crying wolf' articles, we can honestly do without.

Look, Serena is no different in that she has outside pursuits. Many of the top players do. :shrug: But where are the same disparaging articles on them?
When it comes to Serena, the media world (journalists, sports writers) seem to develop a temporary mental affliction that makes them write crazy shit. This article is no different.

We Serena supporters, know Serena is going through a period that she will need to resolve...just as any other WTA player has/had. But it would certainly be nice if for once, these so-called writers would take that into account. :wavey:
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Farina Elia Fan
Feb 13th, 2006, 10:13 PM
I think we might have seen the best of Serena :sad:


Maybe a spell away from the game might rekindle her desire????

harloo
Feb 13th, 2006, 10:24 PM
All Serena needs to do is retire and then come back in about 2 to 3 years. Go for it Serena :yeah:

:tape: :lol:

harloo
Feb 13th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Maybe she does need to take the rest of the year or so off...do all of the fun things she wants to do. Then sometime late this year or early next year start full time training again and comeback sometime during the late winter/ early spring of 2007. Maybe that will give her the time to do all of this ShowBiz Glitz that she enjoyes doing at the moment and satisfy that that interest in her life for now . It will also give her the time away from tennis that she apparently needs... :shrug:
Lots of players do it...i think that would be better then w hat she is doing now..going out there half heartedly. I am sure she would come back strong as ever next year after a break... :D :bounce:

I think this is a great post and I hope Serena considers doing that. She deserves some time away from the game to explore her other ventures. Personally I think she is just burned out right now and taking time off for a while will rejuvenate her desire to play top level tennis again.;)

Andy.
Feb 13th, 2006, 10:39 PM
It is very much a sad but unfortunatly true article it seems like she no longer has the desire to put in the work needed to become a champ again which is sad to see.

Havok
Feb 13th, 2006, 10:56 PM
Serena needs to start caring about tennis again because seeing her on the court this past year wasn't fun at all. Struggling vs crap she would destroy when she was fit and loved the game, failing time and time again to win anything and simply not being fit at all isn't enjoyable in the least bit. This article is spot on, however Serena is not over. At the moment, yes Serena shouldn't be included in the mix and is "over" but that can change in a heartbeat, but only Serena can change that. One spark to rebuild her fire and passion for the game is all it's going to take. Though I thought winning the AO last year was going to do that, but she never followed it up and stopped caring. She thought she could have just walked through everybody across the net like she used to when she didn't have her best stuff with her, but she was sadly mistaken. I expect her to have a nice comeback this season probably starting at Wimbledon and ending at the US open.:D

darrinbaker00
Feb 13th, 2006, 10:56 PM
Look, Serena is no different in that she has outside pursuits. Many of the top players do. :shrug: But where are the same disparaging articles on them?
Doing photo shoots (Sharapova), collecting vintage wines (Mauresmo) and skydiving (Henin-Hardenne) are not the same as starting your own interior design (Venus) or fashion (Serena) companies. Those are full-time, 24/7 CAREERS, not outside interests, and they have caused the sisters' games to slip. If Mauresmo's ranking drops into the 40's because she's spending more time with her wine bottles than her tennis racquets, there will be disparaging articles written about her. If Sharapova becaomes seduced by celebrity and lets her ranking slip, there will be disparaging articles written about her.
When it comes to Serena, the media world (journalists, sports writers) seem to develop a temporary mental affliction that makes them write crazy shit. This article is no different.
That's a matter of opinion, my brother. I thought that article was tough, but fair, and as long as Serena continues on her current course of action (or inaction, depending on your perspective), there will be more just like it.
We Serena supporters, know Serena is going through a period that she will need to resolve...just as any other WTA player has/had. But it would certainly be nice if for once, these so-called writers would take that into account. :wavey:
With all due respect, this is the main problem I have with a lot of Serena fans on this board. You want to silence the messenger for reporting the message, but it's Serena's fault that the message is out there to begin with. Did the media tell Serena to train halfheartedly in November and December? No. Did the media tell both sisters to show up in Melbourne unprepared? No. Did the media tell Serena to pull out of Tokyo to "get back in shape", only to be photographed all over New York during Fashion Week? No. There's only one person to blame for whatever bad press Serena has gotten lately, and that's Serena herself.

harloo
Feb 13th, 2006, 11:00 PM
What I don't understand is why the (commentators, non-fans, writers) are acting like they are so sad that Serena is having a major slump?:rolleyes: When both sisters were #1 and #2 these same people had a field day criticizing them for anything. They were making the game boring, destroying women's tennis, and the constant theme was "Who will beat the Williams"?

Some people are counting Serena out, but she is a champion. She proved everyone wrong winning the AO and she can do it again.

And everyone thought Venus would never win a slam again and she won Wimbledon by outplaying every last one of her opponents except Lindsay who played just as great.

So it's not that the sisters aren't capable of winning again, but the question is do they really care? And I think after the death of Yetunde the sport isn't that big of a deal to them anymore. As a fan I've accepted it, but it would be nice to see them back on top.

However, I really don't buy the false concern from some people. Most were waiting for this day to gloat and now that the sisters are not playing at championship level they are concerned and worried? Whateva!:rolleyes: :o

darrinbaker00
Feb 13th, 2006, 11:06 PM
I think this is a great post and I hope Serena considers doing that. She deserves some time away from the game to explore her other ventures. Personally I think she is just burned out right now and taking time off for a while will rejuvenate her desire to play top level tennis again.;)
If Serena is burned out, it certainly isn't from tennis. Her most active year was 2002, when she played 13 tournaments. If she is burned out, it's because she's pursuing three full-time careers at once (tennis, Aneres and acting), and she's not doing any one of them as well as she could.

vettipooh
Feb 13th, 2006, 11:16 PM
All I will say about this article is.....sticks and stones..:rolleyes:

harloo
Feb 13th, 2006, 11:24 PM
If Serena is burned out, it certainly isn't from tennis. Her most active year was 2002, when she played 13 tournaments. If she is burned out, it's because she's pursuing three full-time careers at once (tennis, Aneres and acting), and she's not doing any one of them as well as she could.

Regardless of what she is burned out from I would rather see her leave tennis and re-evaluate her game and life before stepping back on court. Instead of seeing Serena unmotivated and dejected, I'd prefer to see her smiling again.

tennisbum79
Feb 14th, 2006, 12:09 AM
All Serena needs to do is retire and then come back in about 2 to 3 years. Go for it Serena :yeah:
I do not think so.

With her body type, I do not think it would be easy coming back after 3 years and get back in shape. She would be about 27 years old then.

tennisbum79
Feb 14th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Here is what I think (without knocking Serena down)

Serena is a businesswoman. Her time is her capital, so she wants the best return on invested time. The return from investments in tennis (prize money) will never compare to the return from her other activities. Investments in tennis were smart when she needed her celebrity status. She has it now, so it's smart to diversify the investments. She's doing it.

She is basically becoming a better tennis wise version of Anna IMO.

We are talking about her tennis. Yes we know she is a businesswoman. Yes she is diversifying.
What about tennis? That is what this article is all about.

tenn_ace
Feb 14th, 2006, 01:07 AM
We are talking about her tennis. Yes we know she is a businesswoman. Yes she is diversifying.
What about tennis? That is what this article is all about.

I know what the article is talking about.

Serena's day - like everyone else's - 24 hours. Since she's busy with diversifying (I guess you do agree with me on this point), she just doesn't have time left for tennis.

She's an excellent tennis player for who tennis is a part-time, but it should be a full-time job to get back to where she was 3 years ago and to start losing those lbs...

RVD
Feb 14th, 2006, 01:20 AM
Doing photo shoots (Sharapova), collecting vintage wines (Mauresmo) and skydiving (Henin-Hardenne) are not the same as starting your own interior design (Venus) or fashion (Serena) companies. Those are full-time, 24/7 CAREERS, not outside interests, and they have caused the sisters' games to slip. If Mauresmo's ranking drops into the 40's because she's spending more time with her wine bottles than her tennis racquets, there will be disparaging articles written about her. If Sharapova becaomes seduced by celebrity and lets her ranking slip, there will be disparaging articles written about her.:lol: darrinbaker00, let's be frank here. If you had your way, both Venus and Serena would live, eat, and sleep tennis. They'd be tennis-mechanoids with arms shaped like tennis racquets, and shoot tennis balls from between their butt cheeks. :lol: When Serena was winning, you still weren't happy because Serena didn't blow her opponent off the court. In truth darrinbaker, no player could live up to your expectations. Dude, it's only a game. :shrug:

Now, for the hard cold facts:
when Venus formed V Starr Interiors, did she personally man the helm, or did she hire someone far more qualified. That's right, my friend, she hired someone with more experience to manage the shop while she played and collected interior design data in between practicing and winning. Why is this suddenly a problem. You've maintained this position since forever. Even while they were killing their opponents. And you've been especially hard on Serena. Why is that? :confused:

When Serena went on a winning tear, she did nothing different then than she is doing today. The main problem is her current health (knee affects speed) and motivation.
She played a TV role, entered a tournament, won, and then took a small role in movies. She still won slams.
The problem occurred when at the very top of her game, she elected to undergo knee surgery. That, is what created the current situation. She is now clearly a step slower, and has taken much longer to heal due to the commitments of the game. I've always maintained that she should've taken a year off to fully heal, not just 8 months and rush back.
Besides all that, she still managed to win NASDAQ100 against players who had supposedly 'caught up' to her.
I reluctantly admit that it's possible she's done all she wanted to do in this sport, and probably isn't as motivated as she once was. Heck, like some have already stated in this thread...babygirl entered the 2005 AO at her lowest slam condition and STILL won. How is that gonna motivate a champion ...any champion, when you can still win a slam without playing your best tennis? Add to that the fact that she can do nothing right in the eyes of many. Would YOU still be motivated?!

And as far as the media writing disparaging articles about her...
As I've already stated, if you want to carry on a love affair with this sort of article and writer, be my guest. :shrug: I, however, choose to call it for what it is...
An article pimping the naivety of the weak-minded and Serena haters, which there are plenty of [especially around here]. :wavey:

That's a matter of opinion, my brother. I thought that article was tough, but fair, and as long as Serena continues on her current course of action (or inaction, depending on your perspective), there will be more just like it.The industry's prerogative, of course. But I don't find this article awe-inspiring, a revelation, or the least bit informative. It simply makes the point that most articles have always made about Serena. Big WHOOP! What's so great about that?
Again, I have to call it as I see it---a waste of keystrokes, ink, and paper.

With all due respect, this is the main problem I have with a lot of Serena fans on this board. You want to silence the messenger for reporting the message, but it's Serena's fault that the message is out there to begin with. Did the media tell Serena to train halfheartedly in November and December? No. Did the media tell both sisters to show up in Melbourne unprepared? No. Did the media tell Serena to pull out of Tokyo to "get back in shape", only to be photographed all over New York during Fashion Week? No. There's only one person to blame for whatever bad press Serena has gotten lately, and that's Serena herself.darrinbaker, I've known for some time that 'we Serena fans' irritate you, for you never let us forget. :lol: And I know that Serena frustrates you to no end as well. I also know, from your past posts that the only way that Serena could possibly garner your approval is if she...
...broke her leg tracking a return, have it reset on-court, with a wheel nailed to her foot, and then went back out to play and ultimately win.
Heck, even then you'd probably complain about her lack of speed or how she must've selected a wheel with inadequate bearings. :haha:

So just admit it. Even though you call yourself a fan, Serena could never hope to appease your level of expectation. Many of us 'Serena fans' already have. :wavey: :) Even so, you're still okay in my book, homie. :cool:

*edited*

faste5683
Feb 14th, 2006, 01:31 AM
If Sharapova becaomes seduced by celebrity and lets her ranking slip, there will be disparaging articles written about her.

Maria's on Regis and Kelly tomorrow. It's the beginning of the end, I tell you. :tape:



You want to silence the messenger for reporting the message, but it's Serena's fault that the message is out there to begin with. Did the media tell Serena to train halfheartedly in November and December? No. Did the media tell both sisters to show up in Melbourne unprepared? No. Did the media tell Serena to pull out of Tokyo to "get back in shape", only to be photographed all over New York during Fashion Week? No. There's only one person to blame for whatever bad press Serena has gotten lately, and that's Serena herself.

I'd like to agree with you here, but that would get you into even deeper trouble than you're already in...so, I respectfully disagree (entirely) with your statement.

:angel:

:wavey:

Diesel
Feb 14th, 2006, 01:36 AM
:lol: darrinbaker00, let's be frank here. If you had your way, both Venus and Serena would live, eat, and sleep tennis. They'd be tennis-mechanoids with arms shaped like tennis racquets, and shoot tennis balls from between their butt cheeks. :lol: When Serena was winning, you still weren't happy because Serena didn't blow her opponent off the court. In truth darrinbaker, no player could live up to your expectations. Dude, it's only a game. :shrug:

Now, for the hard cold facts:
when Venus formed V Starr Interiors, did she personally man the helm, or did she hire someone far more qualified. That's right, my friend, she hired someone with more experience to manage the shop while she played and collected interior design data in between practicing and winning. Why is this suddenly a problem. You've maintained this position since forever. Even while they were killing their opponents. And you've been especially hard on Serena. Why is that? :confused:

When Serena went on a winning tear, she did nothing different then than she is doing today. The main problem is her current health (knee affects speed) and motivation.
She played a TV role, entered a tournament, won, and then took a small role in movies. She still won slams.
The problem occurred when at the very top of her game, she elected to undergo knee surgery. That, is what created the current situation. She is now clearly a step slower, and has taken much longer to heal due to the commitments of the game. I've always maintained that she should've taken a year off to fully heal, not just 8 months and rush back.
Besides all that, she still managed to win NASDAQ100 against players who had supposedly 'caught up' to her.
I reluctantly admit that it's possible she's done all she wanted to do in this sport, and probably isn't as motivated as she once was. Heck, like some have already stated in this thread...babygirl entered the 2005 AO at her lowest slam condition and STILL won. How is that gonna motivate a champion ...any champion, when you can still win a slam without playing your best tennis? Add to that the fact that she can do nothing right in the eyes of many. Would YOU still be motivated?!

And as far as the media writing disparaging articles about her...
As I've already stated, if you want to carry on a love affair with this sort of article and writer, be my guest. :shrug: I, however, choose to call it for what it is...
An article pimping the naivety of the weak-minded and Serena haters, which there are plenty of [especially around here]. :wavey:

The industry's prerogative, of course. But I don't find this article awe-inspiring, a revelation, or the least bit informative. It simply makes the point that most articles have always made about Serena. Big WHOOP! What's so great about that?
Again, I have to call it as I see it---a waste of keystrokes, ink, and paper.

darrinbaker, I've known for some time that 'we Serena fans' irritate you, for you never let us forget. :lol: And I know that Serena frustrates you to no end as well. I also know, from your past posts that the only way that Serena could possible garner your approval is if she...
...broke her leg tracking a return, have it reset on-court, with a wheel nailed to her foot, and then went back out to play and ultimately win.
Heck, even then you'd probably complain about her lack of speed or how she must've selected a wheel with inadequate bearings. :haha:

So just admit it. Even though you call yourself a fan, Serena could never hope to appease your level of expectation. Many of us 'Serena fans' already have. :wavey: :) Even so, you're still okay in my book, homie. :cool:

*edited*


:lol: Goodness I enjoyed this :worship:

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 14th, 2006, 01:44 AM
I'd like to agree with you here, but that would get you into even deeper trouble than you're already in...so, I respectfully disagree (entirely) with your statement.

:angel:

:wavey:

Funny how Justine fans weren't singing this tune when Justine had nobody to blame but herself recently -- you lot weren't agreeing with the media statements then. Agreeing with Darin is just that, agreeing with him. There are times when people disagree with his statements and yikes times when they actually agree with him not so much his delivery. Trust a Justine fan to come in with this little gem let alone the exaggerated sense of self-importance.

faste5683
Feb 14th, 2006, 01:50 AM
Funny how Justine fans weren't singing this tune when Justine had nobody to blame but herself recently -- you lot weren't agreeing with the media statements then. Agreeing with Darin is just that, agreeing with him. There are times when people disagree with his statements and yikes times when they actually agree with him not so much his delivery. Trust a Justine fan to come in with this little gem let alone the exaggerated sense of self-importance.

Honey, I NEED an exaggerated sense of self-importance. Nobody else will exaggerate it for me.

:kiss:

:wavey:

Berlin_Calling
Feb 14th, 2006, 02:19 AM
The denial in this thread is unbelievable. What Serena fan can honestly say that they are happy with Serena's form right now? Serena fans need to stop being so defensive and accept the truth about Serena. No body is picking on Serena. When a former great champion struggles to get to the quarterfinals of tournaments, there is always going to be articles written about it. And people keep saying that Serena will rebound back and start dominating again. But when? It's been over a year since Serena won her Aussie Open title, and people have been saying this since then. It's a tired excuse. Until Serena finds her old form and hunger again, people need to accept that she is only a shadow of her former great self.

Diesel
Feb 14th, 2006, 02:30 AM
The denial in this thread is unbelievable. What Serena fan can honestly say that they are happy with Serena's form right now? Serena fans need to stop being so defensive and accept the truth about Serena. No body is picking on Serena. When a former great champion struggles to get to the quarterfinals of tournaments, there is always going to be articles written about it. And people keep saying that Serena will rebound back and start dominating again. But when? It's been over a year since Serena won her Aussie Open title, and people have been saying this since then. It's a tired excuse. Until Serena finds her old form and hunger again, people need to accept that she is only a shadow of her former great self.


What Serena fan is drinking champagne right now? Show me one. Do people read? And I mean actually read because from posts like this it points in the other direction of just glossing over Serena fan posts and not only generalizing but not seeing the different levels of Serena fans' thinking on Serena's current status.

Berlin_Calling
Feb 14th, 2006, 02:35 AM
What Serena fan is drinking champagne right now? Show me one. Do people read? And I mean actually read because from posts like this it points in the other direction of just glossing over Serena fan posts and not only generalizing but not seeing the different levels of Serena fans' thinking on Serena's current status.

I'm going with teh majority here. Most Serena fans seem to have a problem with this article. But why? It's spot on. And nobody is victimizing Serena here. If Sharapova's modeling caused her to lose her fitness, play fewer and fewer tournaments, and lose early in the tournaments she does play, there would be LOADS of articles written about her too. And if Serena wants to focus on her extracurriculars instead of her tennis right now, that's fine. It's her choice but then, she should admit this to her fans instead of giving everyone false hope by saying shes 'fit' before every tournament.

Diesel
Feb 14th, 2006, 02:40 AM
I'm going with teh majority here. Most Serena fans seem to have a problem with this article. But why? It's spot on. And nobody is victimizing Serena here. If Sharapova's modeling caused her to lose her fitness, play fewer and fewer tournaments, and lose early in the tournaments she does play, there would be LOADS of articles written about her too. And if Serena wants to focus on her extracurriculars instead of her tennis right now, that's fine. It's her choice but then, she should admit this to her fans instead of giving everyone false hope by saying shes 'fit' before every tournament.

Since you are going with the majority how after reading the majority of the posts in here are still coming up with a question? Shouldn't the posts be answers or are you looking for an answer that will satisfy you and not the ones given? I'm a Serena fan but she doesn't pay my rent. She doesn't owe me anything, and perhaps if some people didn't cling on to her to that extreme they'd get over themselves. Your caring for Serena fans' feelings is touching. A lot of that has suddenly been going around.

When has having hope and faith in someone who inspires it been wrong? I will never understand the need for some of you people to down that basic support for Serena which is the foundation for just about every Serena fans' fandom.

Why is it the only alternative for some people is for a Serena fan to literally be sobbing in their beer, pepsi, win, kool-aid? Just because the wide variety and range in Serena fans do not agree with the non Serena fan does not make us wrong, nor does it make us delusional and in some sort of denial. Go read a thread in Serena's forum and then maybe your useless, highly reptitive questions will be answered on just what Serena fans think, feel and hope with regards to Serena and her tennis. You would think Serena fans would be applauded for being positive and sticking with Serena when she's obviously not up but no, kick the desire for better, the want and wish for more along with kicking Serena down as well.

Berlin_Calling
Feb 14th, 2006, 02:51 AM
Since you are going with the majority how after reading the majority of the posts in here are still coming up with a question? Shouldn't the posts be answers or are you looking for an answer that will satisfy you and not the ones given? I'm a Serena fan but she doesn't pay my rent. She doesn't owe me anything, and perhaps if some people didn't cling on to her to that extreme they'd get over themselves. Your caring for Serena fans' feelings is touching. A lot of that has suddenly been going around.

When has having hope and faith in someone who inspires it been wrong? I will never understand the need for some of you people to down that basic support for Serena which is the foundation for just about every Serena fans' fandom.

Why is it the only alternative for some people is for a Serena fan to literally be sobbing in their beer, pepsi, win, kool-aid? Just because the wide variety and range in Serena fans do not agree with the non Serena fan does not make us wrong, nor does it make us delusional and in some sort of denial. Go read a thread in Serena's forum and then maybe your useless, highly reptitive questions will be answered on just what Serena fans think, feel and hope with regards to Serena and her tennis. You would think Serena fans would be applauded for being positive and sticking with Serena when she's obviously not up but no, kick the desire for better, the want and wish for more along with kicking Serena down as well.


Im sorry but yawning smilies and quotes like "Serena will dominate again soon!" are not really valid answers to the questions because they simply brush the problem off and are not supported with any intellectual evidence. And duh, Serena owes nothing to you but this is professional sports. When champions falter, there will always be things said. And sorry, I am not that big of a Serena fan to be going into her forum and reading every thread about her but judging from a lot of the posts here, it seems like many Serena fans do not even think she has a problem.

Diesel
Feb 14th, 2006, 02:58 AM
Im sorry but yawning smilies and quotes like "Serena will dominate again soon!" are not really valid answers to the questions because they simply brush the problem off and are not supported with any intellectual evidence. And duh, Serena owes nothing to you but this is professional sports. When champions falter, there will always be things said. And sorry, I am not that big of a Serena fan to be going into her forum and reading every thread about her but judging from a lot of the posts here, it seems like many Serena fans do not even think she has a problem.


The fact that you're missing the point is not lost here. One would hope it is not deliberate. Generalize all you want and disregard everything Serena fans have and continue to say and feel towards Serena. That includes the extremes from the smiley faces to the damn near bashing from those under the Serena fan umbrella. You frankly are seeing what you want to and not what is there so your judgment just like your unwillingness to thoroughly read and comprehend falls short.

vogus
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:15 AM
let Serena leave tennis then, like Hingis and Kournikova did, and see if she misses it. Let her do all the celebrity stuff in New York, London and L.A. for a year or two, and then re-evaulate what she wants. Just like with Hingis in 2002, it's ugly seeing a great player play like crap. It made me nauseous to see Serena lose to Hantuchova at a Grand Slam.

Rocketta
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:24 AM
Im sorry but yawning smilies and quotes like "Serena will dominate again soon!" are not really valid answers to the questions because they simply brush the problem off and are not supported with any intellectual evidence. And duh, Serena owes nothing to you but this is professional sports. When champions falter, there will always be things said. And sorry, I am not that big of a Serena fan to be going into her forum and reading every thread about her but judging from a lot of the posts here, it seems like many Serena fans do not even think she has a problem.

Damn, I didn't know Serena fans were suppose to shuck and Jive and say u's sure is right anytime someone post the same damn article that we have already seen. :rolleyes:

Get over yourself...because when you do you'll realize that not everyone feels the need to have a pity party just because their fav isn't currently winning and they actually do *believe* in their talent whether they are displaying said talent or not.

Rocketta
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:27 AM
The fact that you're missing the point is not lost here. One would hope it is not deliberate. Generalize all you want and disregard everything Serena fans have and continue to say and feel towards Serena. That includes the extremes from the smiley faces to the damn near bashing from those under the Serena fan umbrella. You frankly are seeing what you want to and not what is there so your judgment just like your unwillingness to thoroughly read and comprehend falls short.

and it's funny because don't a bunch of people love to say how Williams fans are always playing the victim...being negative... blah blah blah but now we are not negative enough. :lol:

Lordy, people on this board want to control V&S fans about as much as the media wants to control V&S. :haha:

Berlin_Calling
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:31 AM
Damn, I didn't know Serena fans were suppose to shuck and Jive and say u's sure is right anytime someone post the same damn article that we have already seen. :rolleyes:

Get over yourself...because when you do you'll realize that not everyone feels the need to have a pity party just because their fav isn't currently winning and they actually do *believe* in their talent whether they are displaying said talent or not.


um this is a tennisboard. if this is not the place to post TENNIS articles, i dont know where is. how about you get over yourself and stop blaming journalists for doing their job and posters for posting TENNIS articles on a TENNIS website.

RVD
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:36 AM
Im sorry but yawning smilies and quotes like "Serena will dominate again soon!" are not really valid answers to the questions because they simply brush the problem off and are not supported with any intellectual evidence.It would appear that Diesel has you perfectly pegged when he commented that you must not have read the posts here.
So let's clarify for non-Serena fans what the 'yawning' and 'sleepy' smilie posts represent, shall we?

:yawn: - is clearly a reaction in response to this author's tired topic of,
'if Serena doesn't start practicing and becoming motivated'...
and...
'if Serena doesn't blah-blah-blah...she will fall to blah-blah-blah'...
Okay, so where is the revelation Chrispy? Where is the ground-shaking hardcore fantastical wisdom?

:zzz: - clearly represents the obvious fact that he is boring the hell out of us Serena fans with the same old rhetorical formulas.
Can you say SLEEPY-TIME?!

I mean come off it.
Serena is being slammed because it's still fashionable to do so.
Except in this case, the writer is late to the party cuz—It's already
been done to death.
Please...would ya kick that dead horse just one more time? I think it moved. :haha:And duh, Serena owes nothing to you but this is professional sports. When champions falter, there will always be things said. And sorry, I am not that big of a Serena fan to be going into her forum and reading every thread about her but judging from a lot of the posts here, it seems like many Serena fans do not even think she has a problem.Wrong! It is a professional INDIVIDUAL sport.

.....

Which means, Serena answers ONLY to herself and the sponsors who invested in her.
She owes the sport nothing.
She owes you nothing.
And she owes me, as a fans, nothing [except to continue being Serena]. :D

When we became fans, we promised to be true fans; which means remaining a fan even after she retires.
I can do this with ease because she's already provided me YEARS of excitement, the SERENA SLAM, innumerable title wins, Olympic Gold, Slam Doubles tiltles, memorable fashion, guts, glory, and her indelible fighting spirit and will.

What has your fave done to support your fanhood? Hm-m..? ;)

So please don't worry about us Serena fans. We will survive as we always have. And until Serena officially announces her retirement, that is when I will admit that it is over. Till then, we're all good my friend. :wavey:

RVD
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:42 AM
let Serena leave tennis then, like Hingis and Kournikova did, and see if she misses it. Let her do all the celebrity stuff in New York, London and L.A. for a year or two, and then re-evaulate what she wants. Just like with Hingis in 2002, it's ugly seeing a great player play like crap. It made me nauseous to see Serena lose to Hantuchova at a Grand Slam. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Must've been that rancid Filet-O'Fish you ate, cuz you're not even a Serena fan. Your hatred for her is only surpassed by your ability to find something bad to say about her.

I swear to Jeevus...!
Haters just don't miss a beat when slamming Serena. :haha:
Serena better watch out cuz if she cuts a fart, it will be written about. :lol:

Diesel
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:46 AM
Lordy, people on this board want to control V&S fans about as much as the media wants to control V&S. :haha:

Ain't that some truth? And it irks them even more with the fact that they can't control the outcome of an opinon, thought or play. Go figure :lol:

Rocketta
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:49 AM
um this is a tennisboard. if this is not the place to post TENNIS articles, i dont know where is. how about you get over yourself and stop blaming journalists for doing their job and posters for posting TENNIS articles on a TENNIS website.

are u existing in an alternative universe? :retard: Where have I blamed Journalist for doing their job? So a :yawn: now means delusional and blame journalists for doing their job. :haha:

Ok, here's a concept for you.....a poster posts an article.....I gave my opinion of said article....which was ---->:yawn: just in case you forgot. :hatoff:

btw, isn't that what a tennis board is for? :shrug: No, posting redundant articles, actually I've already seen that exact article on here, are what tennis boards are for but god forbid the players' fans not say you know you are so right lets just question every choice our fave makes cause it'll make all the non-fans feel good about their opinions. :rolleyes:

Diesel
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:50 AM
Which means, Serena answers ONLY to herself and the sponsors who invested in her.
She owes the sport nothing.
She owes you nothing.
And she owes me, as a fans, nothing [except to continue being Serena]. :D

And to put it nicely, I love me some Serena. Win or lose. She isn't a statistic to go in the win or loss column, only to be liked when she wins. Some of us have gone far and beyond that to dig the whole, total package, simply put Serena Williams and we're cool with that.

When we became fans, we promised to be true fans; which means remaining a fan even after she retires.
I can do this with ease because she's already provided me YEARS of excitement, the SERENA SLAM, innumerable title wins, Olympic Gold, Slam Doubles tiltles, memorable fashion, guts, glory, and her indelible fighting spirit and will.

It really is this simple. I'd good rep you alone for this but I gotta do that merry go round deal.


So please don't worry about us Serena fans. We will survive as we always have. And until Serena officially announces her retirement, that is when I will admit that it is over. Till then, we're all good my friend. :wavey:

:worship:

Rexman
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:54 AM
What I don't understand is why the (commentators, non-fans, writers) are acting like they are so sad that Serena is having a major slump?:rolleyes: When both sisters were #1 and #2 these same people had a field day criticizing them for anything. They were making the game boring, destroying women's tennis, and the constant theme was "Who will beat the Williams"?



I agree the criticism was harsh at times, and at times justified.

But come on now, the theme of "Who will beat _____" goes for everyone. It's happening to Roger right now, and everyone loves the guy.

When it comes down to it, domination is boring. It's becoming a problem for the ATP. I like that any one of 15 women could potentially take any title.

RVD
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:56 AM
and it's funny because don't a bunch of people love to say how Williams fans are always playing the victim...being negative... blah blah blah but now we are not negative enough. :lol:

Lordy, people on this board want to control V&S fans about as much as the media wants to control V&S. :haha::lol: :lol: It bothers the hell outta them that we're just chill'n and enjoying the rest of the game. ;)
I guess since there's no one to actively hate on, they feel a little lost. So they turn it towards Serena's fans. :lol:

Rocketta
Feb 14th, 2006, 03:59 AM
Ain't that some truth? And it irks them even more with the fact that they can't control the outcome of an opinon, thought or play. Go figure :lol:

It's quite amazing...actually. :lol:


You know I've disagreed with a lot of player's actions but I've never looked at the fan base and thought you fans shouldn't believe in your fav because I as a non-fan have a problem with her. Go figure. :lol:

Rocketta
Feb 14th, 2006, 04:03 AM
:lol: :lol: It bothers the hell outta them that we're just chill'n and enjoying the rest of the game. ;)
I guess since there's no one to actively hate on, they feel a little lost. So they turn it towards Serena's fans. :lol:

Go Figure! :rolls:

that should be our new theme.....DoH! Go Figure! :lol:

SAEKeithSerena
Feb 14th, 2006, 04:06 AM
Funny how Justine fans weren't singing this tune when Justine had nobody to blame but herself recently -- you lot weren't agreeing with the media statements then. Agreeing with Darin is just that, agreeing with him. There are times when people disagree with his statements and yikes times when they actually agree with him not so much his delivery. Trust a Justine fan to come in with this little gem let alone the exaggerated sense of self-importance.


AMEN!!!!:worship: :worship: :worship:

darrinbaker00
Feb 14th, 2006, 04:43 AM
:lol: darrinbaker00, let's be frank here. If you had your way, both Venus and Serena would live, eat, and sleep tennis. They'd be tennis-mechanoids with arms shaped like tennis racquets, and shoot tennis balls from between their butt cheeks. :lol: When Serena was winning, you still weren't happy because Serena didn't blow her opponent off the court. In truth darrinbaker, no player could live up to your expectations. Dude, it's only a game. :shrug:

Now, for the hard cold facts:
when Venus formed V Starr Interiors, did she personally man the helm, or did she hire someone far more qualified. That's right, my friend, she hired someone with more experience to manage the shop while she played and collected interior design data in between practicing and winning. Why is this suddenly a problem. You've maintained this position since forever. Even while they were killing their opponents. And you've been especially hard on Serena. Why is that? :confused:

When Serena went on a winning tear, she did nothing different then than she is doing today. The main problem is her current health (knee affects speed) and motivation.
She played a TV role, entered a tournament, won, and then took a small role in movies. She still won slams.
The problem occurred when at the very top of her game, she elected to undergo knee surgery. That, is what created the current situation. She is now clearly a step slower, and has taken much longer to heal due to the commitments of the game. I've always maintained that she should've taken a year off to fully heal, not just 8 months and rush back.
Besides all that, she still managed to win NASDAQ100 against players who had supposedly 'caught up' to her.
I reluctantly admit that it's possible she's done all she wanted to do in this sport, and probably isn't as motivated as she once was. Heck, like some have already stated in this thread...babygirl entered the 2005 AO at her lowest slam condition and STILL won. How is that gonna motivate a champion ...any champion, when you can still win a slam without playing your best tennis? Add to that the fact that she can do nothing right in the eyes of many. Would YOU still be motivated?!

And as far as the media writing disparaging articles about her...
As I've already stated, if you want to carry on a love affair with this sort of article and writer, be my guest. :shrug: I, however, choose to call it for what it is...
An article pimping the naivety of the weak-minded and Serena haters, which there are plenty of [especially around here]. :wavey:

The industry's prerogative, of course. But I don't find this article awe-inspiring, a revelation, or the least bit informative. It simply makes the point that most articles have always made about Serena. Big WHOOP! What's so great about that?
Again, I have to call it as I see it---a waste of keystrokes, ink, and paper.

darrinbaker, I've known for some time that 'we Serena fans' irritate you, for you never let us forget. :lol: And I know that Serena frustrates you to no end as well. I also know, from your past posts that the only way that Serena could possible garner your approval is if she...
...broke her leg tracking a return, have it reset on-court, with a wheel nailed to her foot, and then went back out to play and ultimately win.
Heck, even then you'd probably complain about her lack of speed or how she must've selected a wheel with inadequate bearings. :haha:

So just admit it. Even though you call yourself a fan, Serena could never hope to appease your level of expectation. Many of us 'Serena fans' already have. :wavey: :) Even so, you're still okay in my book, homie. :cool:

*edited*
That was pretty good, my brother. I'm glad you were able to have a laugh at my expense.

If I had my way, Venus and Serena would be #1 and #2 in the rankings (preferably in that order, although I wouldn't quibble too much if it were the other way around). If they can do all that other stuff and remain on top, like they did in '02-03, I wouldn't have a problem with it, just like I didn't have a problem with it back then. The problem I have is that both of them keep saying that tennis is their top priority, then show up for the first major of the year totally unprepared. Not only did Venus get BAGELED on her way to losing to the 94th-ranked player in the world (playing in her first major, no less), but she was hitting the ball all over the place. Serena managed to win two matches, but her first-round match went one set too long, and we all know about her conditioning. As far as my expectations go, I don't expect any more from the sisters than they say they expect from themselves. They keep saying they expect to win more majors and get back to the top, and I'm taking them at their word. However, when they spend more time attending parties than playing tennis, it's only logical that people question their word. Venus can be the world's greatest interior designer whan she's 40, 50, or 60; she doesn't have to do that right now. Serena can be the world's greatest fashion designer when she's 40, 50 or 60; she doesn't have to do that right now. They cannot and will not be the world's greatest female tennis players when they're 40, 50 or 60; their time to do that IS right now. If Serena and Venus are no longer motivated to be the best, and if they have accomplished all they wanted to accomplish in tennis, then they should move on; no harm, no foul, no animosity. Unlike others, though, I do not, and will not, believe that they've done all they wanted to do, and they CERTAINLY haven't done all they are capable of doing. Contrary to what others in this thread have posted, I am not trying to "control" any fans; believe me, I am not delusional enough to think that I have that kind of power over people. I just don't understand how anyone be content with how they're playing right now and call himself or herself a fan; please explain that to me if you can. I will always root for the sisters to win, and if either or both of them are playing Stanford this year, my future wife and I WILL be there. I just want to see them get back to where they keep saying they should be.

One last thing: in 2002, Lindsay Davenport had arthroscopic surgery on her right knee. In 2003, Lindsay had surgery on her left foot. On October 18, 2004, Lindsay regained the #1 ranking, which she held until January 31, 2006. It wasn't Serena's knee that started the problem; it was her heart and her head.

darrinbaker00
Feb 14th, 2006, 04:50 AM
Honey, I NEED an exaggerated sense of self-importance. Nobody else will exaggerate it for me.

:kiss:

:wavey:
I'm sure your wife will, if you ask her nicely enough. MAYBE. ;)

darrinbaker00
Feb 14th, 2006, 04:55 AM
Regardless of what she is burned out from I would rather see her leave tennis and re-evaluate her game and life before stepping back on court. Instead of seeing Serena unmotivated and dejected, I'd prefer to see her smiling again.
See, THIS is what I don't understand. How can you call yourself a fan and say something like that? I would think you'd want to see your favorite players PLAY, not take a break.

TF Chipmunk
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:06 AM
I miss the dominant Serena :sad: She was the one to beat, and it was fun seeing all of those great matches, win or lose, and it was great to see the underdog try their hardest to beat her, and yet she'd come up with the stuff to win it in the end.

I know she has it in her. She just needs the motivation.

Sam L
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:16 AM
Usually I've been positive about Serena but one thing we need to keep in mind is the ankle injury she had and surgery she had. She has not been the same since. Can she overcome this?

RVD
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:32 AM
That was pretty good, my brother. I'm glad you were able to have a laugh at my expense.

If I had my way, Venus and Serena would be #1 and #2 in the rankings (preferably in that order, although I wouldn't quibble too much if it were the other way around). If they can do all that other stuff and remain on top, like they did in '02-03, I wouldn't have a problem with it, just like I didn't have a problem with it back then. The problem I have is that both of them keep saying that tennis is their top priority, then show up for the first major of the year totally unprepared. Not only did Venus get BAGELED on her way to losing to the 94th-ranked player in the world (playing in her first major, no less), but she was hitting the ball all over the place. Serena managed to win two matches, but her first-round match went one set too long, and we all know about her conditioning. As far as my expectations go, I don't expect any more from the sisters than they say they expect from themselves. They keep saying they expect to win more majors and get back to the top, and I'm taking them at their word. However, when they spend more time attending parties than playing tennis, it's only logical that people question their word. Venus can be the world's greatest interior designer whan she's 40, 50, or 60; she doesn't have to do that right now. Serena can be the world's greatest fashion designer when she's 40, 50 or 60; she doesn't have to do that right now. They cannot and will not be the world's greatest female tennis players when they're 40, 50 or 60; their time to do that IS right now. If Serena and Venus are no longer motivated to be the best, and if they have accomplished all they wanted to accomplish in tennis, then they should move on; no harm, no foul, no animosity. Unlike others, though, I do not, and will not, believe that they've done all they wanted to do, and they CERTAINLY haven't done all they are capable of doing. Contrary to what others in this thread have posted, I am not trying to "control" any fans; believe me, I am not delusional enough to think that I have that kind of power over people. I just don't understand how anyone be content with how they're playing right now and call himself or herself a fan; please explain that to me if you can. I will always root for the sisters to win, and if either or both of them are playing Stanford this year, my future wife and I WILL be there. I just want to see them get back to where they keep saying they should be.

One last thing: in 2002, Lindsay Davenport had arthroscopic surgery on her right knee. In 2003, Lindsay had surgery on her left foot. On October 18, 2004, Lindsay regained the #1 ranking, which she held until January 31, 2006. It wasn't Serena's knee that started the problem; it was her heart and her head.I couldn't resist, my friend.
Your post just screamed 'abuse'. :lol:

But seriously, I realize that V&S have fans who want them to maintain the highest level possible for as long as possible. And I honestly see nothing wrong with that.
Personally, I couldn't imagine the kind of life a professional tennis player leads, especially where V&S are concerned. They are literally under a microscope because their story and accomplishments are so rare. :worship: :cool:

My only problem is with this sort of article.
I submit that on it's face, the article appears to not be as critical as some have been in the past. And I also submit that there are very few 'sports' writers who can successfully convey a single 'simple' idea and write about it in such a way that it doesn't appear patronizing or abusive.
But there is honestly nothing informative about this article it at all.
It's just old rehashed 'stuff' riding the coat tails of the sisters' misfortune.
Every player experiences lulls in their career. The sisters are going through one right now, but they're still champions. And champions pull through.
However, thus article fails to present that balance.

Anyway, in response to your post...
Don't you believe that V&S have already achieved greatness?
They've broken so many records, I've lost count.
They've also dispelled so many myths about 'their' tennis that I still sit here and shake my head, asking how they could have done what they did in such a short amount of time.
True, they may not have done all they wanted to do, but they're the only ones who know for sure what their capabilities are.
I fully submit that you may have a point about them being able to achieve more, and that they haven't yet done all that they are capable of doing. But give them time. They are still out there practicing [even though we never see it]. ;) Heck, you know as well as I that Serena has an ego as big as anyone's. She won't be going out like a punk[ette] until she's face down in the dirt. :lol:

A little patience, and you may just be pleasantly surprised.
I mean look at Capriati and Hingis. They both returned with better games [Capriati collecting two slams in the process]. And who knows what Hingis will accomplish.
I just wish both ladies would take some time off, and return HUNGRY. That would be incredible.

As for Lindsay Davenport...
I don't now what to tell you accept to say, that's Lindsay Davenport. :shrug:
And not to say she isn't a great player and person, but she's no Venus or Serena.
And she doesn't hold as many slam titles either. ;)
Our girls are unique. When they do decide to leave the sport, I believe they will go out with a bang.
Chin-up fellow Serena fan. :yeah:

harloo
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:36 AM
See, THIS is what I don't understand. How can you call yourself a fan and say something like that? I would think you'd want to see your favorite players PLAY, not take a break.

Darrin you don't understand because you seem like someone who is more a fan of results than the actual player. Of course it would be nice to see Serena and Venus get their old form back but it does not consume me. I am a fan of the these beautiful women more than anything and realize that everyone (including star athletes) has ups and downs.

So pardon me if I don't feel the need to come into every thread nitpicking the same thing consistently. The Williams slump will be talked about by the commentators even when they are not playing a tournament. Why should I join in the bunch? :confused:

The ride thusfar has been fantanstic and hopefully it gets better. Most fans don't have the opportunity to say their favorites have won numerous titles, multiple slams, and clinched the numero uno spot. ;)

harloo
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:46 AM
I agree the criticism was harsh at times, and at times justified.

But come on now, the theme of "Who will beat _____" goes for everyone. It's happening to Roger right now, and everyone loves the guy.

When it comes down to it, domination is boring. It's becoming a problem for the ATP. I like that any one of 15 women could potentially take any title.

I don't hear anything but praise from the commentators and journalist in regards to the domination of Roger. As a matter of fact they all seem to kiss his Swedish arse. Rog is my favorite male player but he will never endure the same type of scrutiny as the sisters.

Futhermore, the possibility of Sharapova dominating the game was well recieved by many of the same people who claimed domination would be boring. The sisters were too strong, fast, and athletic for the other girls. However when Sharapova came hitting the ball harder than alot of the girls on tour it's all ok?:confused:

The very telling moment was at Wimbledon when Maria beat Serena in the finals. Mary Carillo and the rest of the commentators were excited, smiling ear to ear like they had just won the lottery. It was a sight to see because I have never seen any of them act so jubilant over a win. I saw right through it all.;) :o

skanky~skanketta
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:23 AM
the article was well written though terribly depressing.

but i'm not worried. champs always come back.

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Feb 14th, 2006, 08:08 AM
i wouldn't bet against serena winning the french.
I would bet your life that she wont win it.

Petersmiler
Feb 14th, 2006, 10:06 AM
Why do I find myself wanting to bang my head against a brick wall whenever I read a thread like this?

faste5683
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:40 AM
I don't hear anything but praise from the commentators and journalist in regards to the domination of Roger. As a matter of fact they all seem to kiss his Swedish arse.

They all seem to kiss his Swiss arse, Harloo.

:wavey:

darrinbaker00
Feb 14th, 2006, 04:01 PM
Darrin you don't understand because you seem like someone who is more a fan of results than the actual player.
OK, what does that mean?

Aquanetta
Feb 14th, 2006, 04:28 PM
See, THIS is what I don't understand. How can you call yourself a fan and say something like that? I would think you'd want to see your favorite players PLAY, not take a break.

I'm just as puzzled by some of these Williams fans but then again as the mantra goes "we chose them, they didn't choose us." Well, they're breaking new ground in the world of sports fans; I'll give them that much.

Aquanetta
Feb 14th, 2006, 04:32 PM
The ride thusfar has been fantanstic and hopefully it gets better. Most fans don't have the opportunity to say their favorites have won numerous titles, multiple slams, and clinched the numero uno spot. ;)

Whether you were joking or not, why gloat? At this point, I'd rather root for a dedicated player who has none of Serena's trophies as opposed to my favorite (and her sister) who are gradually bringing new meaning to the word "jaded".

RAA
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Honey, I NEED an exaggerated sense of self-importance. Nobody else will exaggerate it for me.


:kiss:
:wavey:

:lol: :lol::lol:

RAA
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:11 PM
well this thread has certainly gone on long enough but I would just like to add that I miss Serena playing kick ass tennis and I will be very sad if she can't get it together soon to consistently be contending for titles, especially grand slam titles, again.

in the mean time I have hitched my horse to the hingis bandwagon.:devil: I'll jump off the moment Vee and Serena get back in the game.:o :angel:

AkademiQ
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:05 PM
Whether you were joking or not, why gloat? At this point, I'd rather root for a dedicated player who has none of Serena's trophies as opposed to my favorite (and her sister) who are gradually bringing new meaning to the word "jaded".

Then go root for that person and stop coming around trying to understand something you aren't even willing to get? Bring your frustration and all of ours to an end :wavey:

Aquanetta
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:10 PM
Then go root for that person and stop coming around trying to understand something you aren't even willing to get? Bring your frustration and all of ours to an end :wavey:

Why should I when it's a game we all seem to enjoy? :tape: It'll be a day or two before I can bad rep you again and then you can bad rep me again and so and so on. Isn't it nice, Amira, that we enjoy antagonizing each other? :hug:

Oh and I get it. I'm just perplexed why some are of you are so accepting of Serena's lack of motivation.

sweetiepiedoll
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:32 PM
That was pretty good, my brother. I'm glad you were able to have a laugh at my expense.

If I had my way, Venus and Serena would be #1 and #2 in the rankings (preferably in that order, although I wouldn't quibble too much if it were the other way around). If they can do all that other stuff and remain on top, like they did in '02-03, I wouldn't have a problem with it, just like I didn't have a problem with it back then. The problem I have is that both of them keep saying that tennis is their top priority, then show up for the first major of the year totally unprepared. Not only did Venus get BAGELED on her way to losing to the 94th-ranked player in the world (playing in her first major, no less), but she was hitting the ball all over the place. Serena managed to win two matches, but her first-round match went one set too long, and we all know about her conditioning. As far as my expectations go, I don't expect any more from the sisters than they say they expect from themselves. They keep saying they expect to win more majors and get back to the top, and I'm taking them at their word. However, when they spend more time attending parties than playing tennis, it's only logical that people question their word. Venus can be the world's greatest interior designer whan she's 40, 50, or 60; she doesn't have to do that right now. Serena can be the world's greatest fashion designer when she's 40, 50 or 60; she doesn't have to do that right now. They cannot and will not be the world's greatest female tennis players when they're 40, 50 or 60; their time to do that IS right now. If Serena and Venus are no longer motivated to be the best, and if they have accomplished all they wanted to accomplish in tennis, then they should move on; no harm, no foul, no animosity. Unlike others, though, I do not, and will not, believe that they've done all they wanted to do, and they CERTAINLY haven't done all they are capable of doing. Contrary to what others in this thread have posted, I am not trying to "control" any fans; believe me, I am not delusional enough to think that I have that kind of power over people. I just don't understand how anyone be content with how they're playing right now and call himself or herself a fan; please explain that to me if you can. I will always root for the sisters to win, and if either or both of them are playing Stanford this year, my future wife and I WILL be there. I just want to see them get back to where they keep saying they should be.

One last thing: in 2002, Lindsay Davenport had arthroscopic surgery on her right knee. In 2003, Lindsay had surgery on her left foot. On October 18, 2004, Lindsay regained the #1 ranking, which she held until January 31, 2006. It wasn't Serena's knee that started the problem; it was her heart and her head.


Great post! Congrats to you on your engagement to your future wife. :bounce: :bounce:

AkademiQ
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Why should I when it's a game we all seem to enjoy? :tape: It'll be a day or two before I can bad rep you again and then you can bad rep me again and so and so on. Isn't it nice, Amira, that we enjoy antagonizing each other? :hug:

Oh and I get it. I'm just perplexed why some are of you are so accepting of Serena's lack of motivation.

:scratch:

Netta wrote:

Originally Posted by Aquanetta
Whether you were joking or not, why gloat? At this point, I'd rather root for a dedicated player who has none of Serena's trophies as opposed to my favorite (and her sister) who are gradually bringing new meaning to the word "jaded".

You'll probably be perplexed for the rest of your stay at WTA World on why some are able to accept Venus and Serena as they are in times of great triumph and in times of low defeat because you arent listening to what some are really saying. Until then you'll be scratching your head and venting your pent up frustration asking the same ole question.

I'll wait with bated breath on that bad rep. It's all your good for toots :kiss:

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:27 PM
So it's not that the sisters aren't capable of winning again, but the question is do they really care? And I think after the death of Yetunde the sport isn't that big of a deal to them anymore. As a fan I've accepted it, but it would be nice to see them back on top.


They said it in so many words. That they are taking advantage of what life has to offer them in whatever form that makes them happy at the moment because they realized that life is short.

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:32 PM
:lol: darrinbaker00, let's be frank here. If you had your way, both Venus and Serena would live, eat, and sleep tennis. They'd be tennis-mechanoids with arms shaped like tennis racquets, and shoot tennis balls from between their butt cheeks. :lol: When Serena was winning, you still weren't happy because Serena didn't blow her opponent off the court. In truth darrinbaker, no player could live up to your expectations. Dude, it's only a game. :shrug:

Now, for the hard cold facts:
when Venus formed V Starr Interiors, did she personally man the helm, or did she hire someone far more qualified. That's right, my friend, she hired someone with more experience to manage the shop while she played and collected interior design data in between practicing and winning. Why is this suddenly a problem. You've maintained this position since forever. Even while they were killing their opponents. And you've been especially hard on Serena. Why is that? :confused:

When Serena went on a winning tear, she did nothing different then than she is doing today. The main problem is her current health (knee affects speed) and motivation.
She played a TV role, entered a tournament, won, and then took a small role in movies. She still won slams.
The problem occurred when at the very top of her game, she elected to undergo knee surgery. That, is what created the current situation. She is now clearly a step slower, and has taken much longer to heal due to the commitments of the game. I've always maintained that she should've taken a year off to fully heal, not just 8 months and rush back.
Besides all that, she still managed to win NASDAQ100 against players who had supposedly 'caught up' to her.
I reluctantly admit that it's possible she's done all she wanted to do in this sport, and probably isn't as motivated as she once was. Heck, like some have already stated in this thread...babygirl entered the 2005 AO at her lowest slam condition and STILL won. How is that gonna motivate a champion ...any champion, when you can still win a slam without playing your best tennis? Add to that the fact that she can do nothing right in the eyes of many. Would YOU still be motivated?!

And as far as the media writing disparaging articles about her...
As I've already stated, if you want to carry on a love affair with this sort of article and writer, be my guest. :shrug: I, however, choose to call it for what it is...
An article pimping the naivety of the weak-minded and Serena haters, which there are plenty of [especially around here]. :wavey:

The industry's prerogative, of course. But I don't find this article awe-inspiring, a revelation, or the least bit informative. It simply makes the point that most articles have always made about Serena. Big WHOOP! What's so great about that?
Again, I have to call it as I see it---a waste of keystrokes, ink, and paper.

darrinbaker, I've known for some time that 'we Serena fans' irritate you, for you never let us forget. :lol: And I know that Serena frustrates you to no end as well. I also know, from your past posts that the only way that Serena could possibly garner your approval is if she...
...broke her leg tracking a return, have it reset on-court, with a wheel nailed to her foot, and then went back out to play and ultimately win.
Heck, even then you'd probably complain about her lack of speed or how she must've selected a wheel with inadequate bearings. :haha:

So just admit it. Even though you call yourself a fan, Serena could never hope to appease your level of expectation. Many of us 'Serena fans' already have. :wavey: :) Even so, you're still okay in my book, homie. :cool:

*edited*
Preach brother preach :worship: :worship: :worship:

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:35 PM
The denial in this thread is unbelievable. What Serena fan can honestly say that they are happy with Serena's form right now? Serena fans need to stop being so defensive and accept the truth about Serena. No body is picking on Serena. When a former great champion struggles to get to the quarterfinals of tournaments, there is always going to be articles written about it. And people keep saying that Serena will rebound back and start dominating again. But when? It's been over a year since Serena won her Aussie Open title, and people have been saying this since then. It's a tired excuse. Until Serena finds her old form and hunger again, people need to accept that she is only a shadow of her former great self.
Okay we accept it. Do you feel better now? Will the articles stop now? :shrug:

BTW, which Serena fan in this thread said she was in form? :scratch:

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:38 PM
Since you are going with the majority how after reading the majority of the posts in here are still coming up with a question? Shouldn't the posts be answers or are you looking for an answer that will satisfy you and not the ones given? I'm a Serena fan but she doesn't pay my rent. She doesn't owe me anything, and perhaps if some people didn't cling on to her to that extreme they'd get over themselves. Your caring for Serena fans' feelings is touching. A lot of that has suddenly been going around.

When has having hope and faith in someone who inspires it been wrong? I will never understand the need for some of you people to down that basic support for Serena which is the foundation for just about every Serena fans' fandom.

Why is it the only alternative for some people is for a Serena fan to literally be sobbing in their beer, pepsi, win, kool-aid? Just because the wide variety and range in Serena fans do not agree with the non Serena fan does not make us wrong, nor does it make us delusional and in some sort of denial. Go read a thread in Serena's forum and then maybe your useless, highly reptitive questions will be answered on just what Serena fans think, feel and hope with regards to Serena and her tennis. You would think Serena fans would be applauded for being positive and sticking with Serena when she's obviously not up but no, kick the desire for better, the want and wish for more along with kicking Serena down as well.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:40 PM
The fact that you're missing the point is not lost here. One would hope it is not deliberate. Generalize all you want and disregard everything Serena fans have and continue to say and feel towards Serena. That includes the extremes from the smiley faces to the damn near bashing from those under the Serena fan umbrella. You frankly are seeing what you want to and not what is there so your judgment just like your unwillingness to thoroughly read and comprehend falls short.
Okay Chrispy is pwned :lol:

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:49 PM
That was pretty good, my brother. I'm glad you were able to have a laugh at my expense.

If I had my way, Venus and Serena would be #1 and #2 in the rankings (preferably in that order, although I wouldn't quibble too much if it were the other way around). If they can do all that other stuff and remain on top, like they did in '02-03, I wouldn't have a problem with it, just like I didn't have a problem with it back then.
Darrin, yes you did. You forget, I knew you when... We had many disagreements on this particular subject back in the day on Yahoo, so please sell that bridge somewhere else. :hehehe:

Orion
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:52 PM
only Serena can decide what the rest of her tennis career will be...if she wants more slams and the number 1 ranking bad enough then she'll get it....

I'm not so sure anymore. Serena's older now 24, and her body has had more wear and tear on it than anyone on the tour, barring maybe Lindsay Davenport. It'll be harder and harder to come back to that condition she reached 4 years ago than it was when she was barely 20 years old, and especially with the players right now (Mirza who hits everything hard and to the wings, anyone who can create an angle).

Another problem is a lot of players are beginning to realize that they don't have to be afraid anymore, and so they aren't. The intimidation Serena once had is almost all gone. Hantuchova looked positively terrified the last times they played, but this time it was as if she suddenly thought "I have the game to beat her. I can do this."

Serena has never had the same athletic capability of Steffi Graf, whose comeback was a virtual miracle, and she isn't as quick on her feet either. Considering how much slower Graf was in 95-96, it's hard to picture Serena's footspeed coming back to 02-03 levels again.

I don't think it's entirely up to Serena whether she gets the #1 ranking back, or wins slams again. I think it's up to both her and her competition. What if they don't let her back into the race? It may be that she gets shut out when she tries to return. While I hope she can return to the top 10, I don't know whether we can see another slam in her bag of tricks anymore. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:56 PM
I'm just as puzzled by some of these Williams fans but then again as the mantra goes "we chose them, they didn't choose us." Well, they're breaking new ground in the world of sports fans; I'll give them that much.
I'm still puzzled about how a supposed fellow fan creates a mantra and/or label for her fellow fans. And, I don't understand what it means or how it applies.

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:57 PM
Whether you were joking or not, why gloat? At this point, I'd rather root for a dedicated player who has none of Serena's trophies as opposed to my favorite (and her sister) who are gradually bringing new meaning to the word "jaded".
Who's stopping you? :confused:

Denise4925
Feb 14th, 2006, 11:59 PM
Why should I when it's a game we all seem to enjoy? :tape: It'll be a day or two before I can bad rep you again and then you can bad rep me again and so and so on. Isn't it nice, Amira, that we enjoy antagonizing each other? :hug:

Oh and I get it. I'm just perplexed why some are of you are so accepting of Serena's lack of motivation.
Aquanetta, as long as you continue to be unwilling to accept other people's opinions that differ from yours, you will always be perplexed.

Denise4925
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:02 AM
I'm not so sure anymore. Serena's older now (25?), and her body has had more wear and tear on it than anyone on the tour, barring maybe Lindsay Davenport. It'll be harder and harder to come back to that condition she reached 4 years ago than it was when she was barely 20 years old, and especially with the players right now (Mirza who hits everything hard and to the wings, anyone who can create an angle).

Another problem is a lot of players are beginning to realize that they don't have to be afraid anymore, and so they aren't. The intimidation Serena once had is almost all gone. Hantuchova looked positively terrified the last times they played, but this time it was as if she suddenly thought "I have the game to beat her. I can do this."

Serena has never had the same athletic capability of Steffi Graf, whose comeback was a virtual miracle, and she isn't as quick on her feet either. Considering how much slower Graf was in 95-96, it's hard to picture Serena's footspeed coming back to 02-03 levels again.

I don't think it's entirely up to Serena whether she gets the #1 ranking back, or wins slams again. I think it's up to both her and her competition. What if they don't let her back into the race? It may be that she gets shut out when she tries to return. While I hope she can return to the top 10, I don't know whether we can see another slam in her bag of tricks anymore. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

:lol: Orion, you don't honestly believe this do you? I mean, you were joking right??? You think the players let Vee win Wimbledon last year?

harloo
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:03 AM
I'm not so sure anymore. Serena's older now (25?), and her body has had more wear and tear on it than anyone on the tour, barring maybe Lindsay Davenport. It'll be harder and harder to come back to that condition she reached 4 years ago than it was when she was barely 20 years old, and especially with the players right now (Mirza who hits everything hard and to the wings, anyone who can create an angle).

Another problem is a lot of players are beginning to realize that they don't have to be afraid anymore, and so they aren't. The intimidation Serena once had is almost all gone. Hantuchova looked positively terrified the last times they played, but this time it was as if she suddenly thought "I have the game to beat her. I can do this."

Serena has never had the same athletic capability of Steffi Graf, whose comeback was a virtual miracle, and she isn't as quick on her feet either. Considering how much slower Graf was in 95-96, it's hard to picture Serena's footspeed coming back to 02-03 levels again.

I don't think it's entirely up to Serena whether she gets the #1 ranking back, or wins slams again. I think it's up to both her and her competition. What if they don't let her back into the race? It may be that she gets shut out when she tries to return. While I hope she can return to the top 10, I don't know whether we can see another slam in her bag of tricks anymore. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

So you mean to tell me that Hingis can come back after four years of no match play and get to the qtrs of a slam and make a final right away but Serena can't be number one again? :lol:

Depth? What depth?:o If Serena gets her fitness/health and motivation back she will get right back where she belongs.;)

Rocketta
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Who's stopping you? :confused:

isn't that like the million dollar question? :lol:

Stamp Paid
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:16 AM
Imma :yawn: since thats what I hear all the other Serena fans did.

Orion
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:20 AM
:lol: Orion, you don't honestly believe this do you? I mean, you were joking right??? You think the players let Vee win Wimbledon last year?

Well, I was referring to Serena in particular, but to answer your question, no. Last year, both of them put together remarkable runs. But Venus has always been a better all-around athlete than Serena, and better comitted to fitness. Her weaknesses have always been in her technical game. She isn't as gifted at tennis as Serena, but has a better athletic ability. When Venus isn't having problems in her technical game, when her forehand doesn't fall apart and her 2nd serve remains steady, she is very difficult to stay competitive with. What hurt her the most was the long absence from the game at the end of '03, and her lack of a real plan B. When players found out how to beat her, it became a lot more frequent. Which isn't to say she isn't capable of winning a title, and believe you me, Wimbledon was magnificent, but she is far to erratic to be considered a serious contender for a slam that isn't as fast paced for her serve.

Serena's difficulty has always been related to her fitness. Her game is based on the ability to gain control of a point, by running to her opponents shots and getting them back with interest, until she can get a winner. Unfortunately, she hasn't been able to keep her fitness in check when she was out with injury, and she's getting older (tennis-wise) than your normal excellent mover. I do think that she won't put together any spectacular runs until she gets her movement back.

Orion
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:38 AM
So you mean to tell me that Hingis can come back after four years of no match play and get to the qtrs of a slam and make a final right away but Serena can't be number one again? :lol:

Depth? What depth?:o If Serena gets her fitness/health and motivation back she will get right back where she belongs.;)

This is a really good comparison! Good question. My thinking:

What were Hingis problems when she left? Movement. Her feet and ankles were breaking down, and she couldn't run down the shots like she used to, or set up points like she was supposed to. However, a few years off and her ankles are healthier, and she adds enough muscle and conditioning to help her prevent it from happening again, and presto: she's ba-ack. She has a nice little draw, she has a clean and unexpected game, and she's golden.

With Serena, the problems aren't entirely with her feet. It's the pressure that her body puts on her feet. With a game based around her movement, Serena needs to have her entire lower body at very good condition. Even at full health, Serena is substantially heavier than Hingis (she's taller, and more muscular). Her serve puts a lot of pressure on her knees and back, both VERY important for her game. If she spends the time off to get the fitness back, she could possibly challenge again. Do I think she has shown the capability to do that, or the drive? Unclear, I don't know her that well. She hasn't really demonstrated it, but she is certainly capable of being fit. My biggest concern is the clock. She's 24 years old, and playing on a body that has taken a lot of beatings, a body that is years older than she. Even if she does get fit again, will she get that groundspeed back? I don't know. But if history is any indicator, it's doubtful.

Also, on the matter of depth, both of the Williams' have relatively 1-d games. Serena has a little more dimension to hers, and both have capable net games, but neither use shots that anyone in the top 20 is unused to seeing. They don't hit harder than Pierce, they don't serve better than Davenport, and they don't volley better than Mauresmo. It's getting routine to face a power player 2-3 matches in a row. Hingis benefits by playing a virtually one-of-a-kind game.

I could be very wrong; if there's one thing the Williams sisters are always defending champions in, it's shutting up people like me ;)

But right now, I'm not convinced.

Out of curiousity, what makes you certain that she can come back as good as before?

Orion
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:45 AM
well this thread has certainly gone on long enough but I would just like to add that I miss Serena playing kick ass tennis and I will be very sad if she can't get it together soon to consistently be contending for titles, especially grand slam titles, again.

Good post!

Orion
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:46 AM
correction to both of my previous long posts, Serena is 24.

ayanate
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:26 AM
I think once the next great 'black' hope comes along, we'll all forget about Serena and leave her alone to languish in tennis mediocrity that she has chosen. The problem for some of us is there is no one to replace the WS so we bitch about their lack of motivation.

To have an inkling of how difficult it is to achieve what these girls have achieved coming from their background, you only need to look at the bleak prospects of up and coming players of colour.

To be honest, the WS have ruined tennis for me, before they came on the scene, I used to enjoy tennis for the spectacle. Now with them out of contention, it just bores me stiff, I hope I get out of this phase because I love the sport dearly.

Kunal
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:38 AM
thats what we dont know.....how hungry are u?

darrinbaker00
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:38 AM
Darrin, yes you did. You forget, I knew you when... We had many disagreements on this particular subject back in the day on Yahoo, so please sell that bridge somewhere else. :hehehe:
Your memory is fuzzy, boo (must be a Texas thing, because the guy who lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington, DC has the same problem). I have ALWAYS said that if Venus and Serena's non-tennis activities got in the way of their tennis, then they should give that stuff up.

RVD
Feb 15th, 2006, 07:36 AM
This is a really good comparison! Good question. My thinking:

What were Hingis problems when she left? Movement. Her feet and ankles were breaking down, and she couldn't run down the shots like she used to, or set up points like she was supposed to. However, a few years off and her ankles are healthier, and she adds enough muscle and conditioning to help her prevent it from happening again, and presto: she's ba-ack. She has a nice little draw, she has a clean and unexpected game, and she's golden.Clearly you are a Martina fan, and hey, nothing wrong with that. more power to you both. :wavey:

With Serena, the problems aren't entirely with her feet. [b]It's the pressure that her body puts on her feet. With a game based around her movement, Serena needs to have her entire lower body at very good condition. Even at full health, Serena is substantially heavier than Hingis (she's taller, and more muscular). Her serve puts a lot of pressure on her knees and back, both VERY important for her game. If she spends the time off to get the fitness back, she could possibly challenge again.You lost me here, so lemma see if I've got this right...
Hingis can have a couple of operations on her ankle [which happen to be the single most weakest area in the human body], come back and continue winning because she's golden ???????
Excuse me but what on earth does that mean?!

Moreover, Serena, the single most powerful female player out there, can't make a successful comeback because she's heavier, taller, more muscular?!?!?!?! :confused:

Aren't these the reasons why Serena used to kick Martina's ass? You know, that brilliant golden player? Or does your argument hinge on the well known myth that Serena is a dumb tennis player, because that's what you're effectively saying, right?Also, on the matter of depth, both of the Williams' have relatively 1-d games. Serena has a little more dimension to hers, and both have capable net games, but neither use shots that anyone in the top 20 is unused to seeing. They don't hit harder than Pierce, they don't serve better than Davenport, and they don't volley better than Mauresmo. It's getting routine to face a power player 2-3 matches in a row.Well that's what players were saying for years [especially the commentators, as they provided EVERYONE with info on how to 'beat a Williams']. Even so, Serena used to change her game accordingly and slaughter the opponent. And Hingis was one of those 'great thinkers' being slaughtered.

This is the main reason why I can't be a fan of players like Hingis---
Because she gets all these accolades of supposedly being this great thinker, yet a big 1-d player like my girl Serena kicks her ass NUMEROUS times. In fact, enough to garner a winning H2H against golden girl. :lol
And yet and still, Serena is the dumb jock. ;) Allll-righty!

Every time I hear that garbage, I'm left with the feeling that Serena must have seriously hurt the feelings of fans who placed so much stock in Hingis' game that they still consider it a dream [not reality]that Serena accomplished so much with Hingis at the top of her game. :lol: :rolleyes:
And please do not come back with excuses about Hingis' feet. Serena was waxing that ass before Martina's ankles gave up the ghost. :lol:

Why do fans of other players find it sooooo hard to credit Serena? :shrug:

PamShriverRockz
Feb 15th, 2006, 08:37 AM
Article - 1.5/10 ;)

Serena aint finished!

faste5683
Feb 15th, 2006, 11:26 AM
I think once the next great 'black' hope comes along, we'll all forget about Serena and leave her alone to languish in tennis mediocrity that she has chosen. The problem for some of us is there is no one to replace the WS so we bitch about their lack of motivation.

To have an inkling of how difficult it is to achieve what these girls have achieved coming from their background, you only need to look at the bleak prospects of up and coming players of colour.


For me, these are extremely interesting thoughts - and totally out of the box from my perspective. I forget that for many, the WS's are so much more than tennis players...

:wavey:

MisterMan
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:46 PM
How long will all this 'other income' last if she's not a tennis champion any more ?

Endorsements will drop.
Her acting is only predicated on the fact that she is a world class athlete. Is her acting really that good that people will watch her if her ranking falls to 100 ?
Will women buy her fashions is the fashion comes from an ex-tennis player ?

Her current success at acting roles and design are strictly due to the fact that she is (was) a Top five player.

Rocketta
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:14 PM
How long will all this 'other income' last if she's not a tennis champion any more ?

Endorsements will drop.
Her acting is only predicated on the fact that she is a world class athlete. Is her acting really that good that people will watch her if her ranking falls to 100 ?
Will women buy her fashions is the fashion comes from an ex-tennis player ?

Her current success at acting roles and design are strictly due to the fact that she is (was) a Top five player.

Well I'm sure the income will dry up ... I mean look what happened to Anna K's income after her tennis success dried up.......Oh Wait!...:tape:

darrinbaker00
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:33 PM
Well I'm sure the income will dry up ... I mean look what happened to Anna K's income after her tennis success dried up.......Oh Wait!...:tape:
What tennis success, Fair Maiden? Are you talking about those two Roland Garros doubles titles Martina Hingis won for her? :devil:

If Venus and Serena are investing well, they can quit everything right now and live like queens for two lifetimes. Money should be the least of their worries.

Denise4925
Feb 15th, 2006, 05:23 PM
Your memory is fuzzy, boo (must be a Texas thing, because the guy who lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington, DC has the same problem). I have ALWAYS said that if Venus and Serena's non-tennis activities got in the way of their tennis, then they should give that stuff up.
Excuse you??? Please don't associate me with that liar in the White House, and please don't insult my home state. I didn't personally attack you or where you come from in order to make my point. I'm not sure why you feel the need to do so.

I think your memory is selective. You've always complained and criticized them, particularly Serena for her off-court activities. You claim that you didn't have a problem with it back when they were winning, but if that's the case, why were you so critical of it in 2003? The issue being that you've always had a problem with it, and now it seems you're backpeddling to make your point.

AkademiQ
Feb 15th, 2006, 05:27 PM
For me, these are extremely interesting thoughts - and totally out of the box from my perspective. I forget that for many, the WS's are so much more than tennis players...

:wavey:


All a person would have to do is read a couple posts to understand that for some Serena and Venus are more than tennis players... people in fact.

AkademiQ
Feb 15th, 2006, 05:30 PM
Every time I hear that garbage, I'm left with the feeling that Serena must have seriously hurt the feelings of fans who placed so much stock in Hingis' game that they still consider it a dream [not reality]that Serena accomplished so much with Hingis at the top of her game. :lol: :rolleyes:
And please do not come back with excuses about Hingis' feet. Serena was waxing that ass before Martina's ankles gave up the ghost. :lol:

:worship:

Why do fans of other players find it sooooo hard to credit Serena? :shrug:

And then want to bitch and moan when Serena bow down to their faves to their liking :lol:

Denise4925
Feb 15th, 2006, 05:37 PM
Well, I was referring to Serena in particular, but to answer your question, no. Last year, both of them put together remarkable runs. But Venus has always been a better all-around athlete than Serena, and better comitted to fitness. Her weaknesses have always been in her technical game. She isn't as gifted at tennis as Serena, but has a better athletic ability. When Venus isn't having problems in her technical game, when her forehand doesn't fall apart and her 2nd serve remains steady, she is very difficult to stay competitive with. What hurt her the most was the long absence from the game at the end of '03, and her lack of a real plan B. When players found out how to beat her, it became a lot more frequent. Which isn't to say she isn't capable of winning a title, and believe you me, Wimbledon was magnificent, but she is far to erratic to be considered a serious contender for a slam that isn't as fast paced for her serve.

Okay, do you think the other players let Serena win the AO '05? I just have a problem with you thinking that it's up to the other players on tour on whether they will allow Serena back into the top 5.

I'm not really going to get into who has better athletic ability, because we obviously disagree on that.

Orion
Feb 15th, 2006, 06:50 PM
You lost me here, so lemma see if I've got this right...
Hingis can have a couple of operations on her ankle [which happen to be the single most weakest area in the human body], come back and continue winning because she's golden???????
Excuse me but what on earth does that mean?!

Moreover, Serena, the single most powerful female player out there, can't make a successful comeback because she's heavier, taller, more muscular?!?!?!?! :confused:

Aren't these the reasons why Serena used to kick Martina's ass? You know, that brilliant golden player? Or does your argument hinge on the well known myth that Serena is a dumb tennis player, because that's what you're effectively saying, right?Well that's what players were saying for years [especially the commentators, as they provided EVERYONE with info on how to 'beat a Williams']. Even so, Serena used to change her game accordingly and slaughter the opponent. And Hingis was one of those 'great thinkers' being slaughtered.

This is the main reason why I can't be a fan of players like Hingis---
Because she gets all these accolades of supposedly being this great thinker, yet a big 1-d player like my girl Serena kicks her ass NUMEROUS times. In fact, enough to garner a winning H2H against golden girl. :lol
And yet and still, Serena is the dumb jock. ;) Allll-righty!

Every time I hear that garbage, I'm left with the feeling that Serena must have seriously hurt the feelings of fans who placed so much stock in Hingis' game that they still consider it a dream [not reality]that Serena accomplished so much with Hingis at the top of her game. :lol: :rolleyes:
And please do not come back with excuses about Hingis' feet. Serena was waxing that ass before Martina's ankles gave up the ghost. :lol:

Why do fans of other players find it sooooo hard to credit Serena? :shrug:

No, no, no! I didn't state myself clearly, apparently.

Well, here goes:

"She's golden" just meant that she's back in business, her injuries didn't really affect her style of play. It's an expression, not a quality. It wasn't a reference to her playing style. And yes, Serena was destroying Hingis in 2000, 2001, 2002. However, this thread is talking about the future, and I'm not as convinced that Serena's comeback will be so simple. Serena's gameplan is based on her muscles and footspeed working with one another, not against one another, and judging by the past 9 months, she is not going to be able to move like she did when she was "waxing that ass". That's just my opinion based on other players comebacks (Graf in 98, Seles after she returned in 95).

And as for the latter half, how to put it... Serena isn't just a dumb jock, that's not what I'm saying at all. It takes a lot of thinking to hit the ball as consistently hard, accurate, and angled as she could at her peak. And she had touch aspects of her game, too. What I'm saying, though, is that Serena has become the victim of her muscles. She's put a lot of stress on her frame, and I have trouble imagining her being nearly as fast as she was in early 2005, or in the 2002-2003 sweep of tournaments. She's gained enough weight that it puts a lot of pressure on her knees and lower body, and the longer it stays, the harder it will be.

The reason Serena had the versatility to change her game in those peak years was because she was faster than anyone she faced. Look at the great players in history: Graf, Williams, Navratilova, early Seles. What is the linking factor? They were amazingly fit and fast. Even in the mens game, Borg, Laver, Sampras, Lendl, Federer? All of them were the finest movers on court.

As for Serena's version of power-tennis, 1-d isn't the best way to put it, but it saves a lot of time (which I don't often have). When Serena was the world beater in the early 2000's, the power players were a concentrated group (Williams, Williams, Pierce, Davenport, Capriati) near the top of the rankings. All of them had nuances to their styles that made them unique, such as the laser groundstrokes of Davenport, the serves of the Williams sisters, the inside-out forehand of Capriati. It made them all difficult to play against. Since the Williams sisters raised the bar, and I do think they did that, a lot of players are coming out with power games based on the same principles (big serve, big groundstrokes). The entire top 50 is littered with power players. Just look at the rankings: in the top 10, only two players don't rely on hitting 20+ winners a match (Mauresmo and Schnyder). While few of today's power players are as good as the Williams sisters were at their best, a lot more players have practiced against big hitters than in 2002-2003, when the ones who hit the ball SOOO hard were such an elite group. While every player has nuances in their game, the best of the best are getting more used to that, and without 100% commitment from Serena, I can't see how she will return to that unbeatable position she was once in.

As for the comments about Serena's accomplishments, I have no problem admiring her achievements. I think she's a phenomenal player when she gives it her all. But the past is not what this thread is about. The future is. Just based on recent history, this is my opinion of the future. And like I said, if there's one thing the Williams sisters will always be the best at, it's shutting up people like me.

I hope that clears up the confusion over "Golden" at least, I always forget that not everyone knows my old-school euphamisms!

Orion
Feb 15th, 2006, 06:58 PM
Okay, do you think the other players let Serena win the AO '05? I just have a problem with you thinking that it's up to the other players on tour on whether they will allow Serena back into the top 5.

I'm not really going to get into who has better athletic ability, because we obviously disagree on that.

Certainly not. She was still very fit at the Aussie in 2005. Not at 2002-2003 condition, but definitely not as unpracticed and out of condition as she was at Wimbledon '05. If Serena can get her mobility back, there's no one on earth that could keep her from the top 5. My skepticism is whether she will get that mobility back. Historically, players never return as fast as they were, and power players have a short shelf-life, speed wise. Who knows, maybe she'll buck the trend? I can hope. I'd like to see her back where she belongs, consistently challenging for slams, but I don't want to get my hopes up, and I just want to give a balanced view of what has happened in the past to players coming back from knee injury/mobility concerns, particularly power players.

Looking back, my athletic comments were a little off base. It's subjective, to be honest. I've always gotten the impression, though, that Serena has a better knack for tennis, but Venus is the better all-around athlete. Venus is more injury prone, it seems, because she plays such an unconventional style. Her forehand isn't typical, she has an odd gait when she runs, her service technique doesn't fit the mold. When it's on, she's unbeatable, but it seems to wear down on her body more than Serena's game.

I'm rambling now. Forgive me ;)

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Veenut
Feb 15th, 2006, 09:04 PM
[QUOTE]This is the main reason why I can't be a fan of players like Hingis---
Because she gets all these accolades of supposedly being this great thinker, yet a big 1-d player like my girl Serena kicks her ass NUMEROUS times. In fact, enough to garner a winning H2H against golden girl. :lol
And yet and still, Serena is the dumb jock. ;) Allll-righty!

Every time I hear that garbage, I'm left with the feeling that Serena must have seriously hurt the feelings of fans who placed so much stock in Hingis' game that they still consider it a dream [not reality]that Serena accomplished so much with Hingis at the top of her game. :lol: :rolleyes:
And please do not come back with excuses about Hingis' feet. Serena was waxing that ass before Martina's ankles gave up the ghost. :lol:

I totally concur with your post. If one was to follow the logic of those who find comfort in the "hit the ball hard" theory, then I would like to know why all the others who hit as hard or harder are not as successful as V&S. Why is it that "hitting hard only" works well for these two but not for others". They clearly have to forget about logical reasoning because it would not provide them with the bias answers they so desparately seek and cling to.

Orion
Feb 15th, 2006, 09:20 PM
[QUOTE=ReeVeeDynasty]If one was to follow the logic of those who find comfort in the "hit the ball hard" theory, then I would like to know why all the others who hit as hard or harder are not as successful as V&S. Why is it that "hitting hard only" works well for these two but not for others". They clearly have to forget about logical reasoning because it would not provide them with the bias answers they so desparately seek and cling to.

It's because they are much faster than all of the power players besides Kuznetsova (sometimes), Clijsters, Henin, and Dementieva, and the sisters don't have mental issues (most of the time, Venus used to have a block against Serena).

You're right, though. Their games are more than the one-dimensional style a lot of people think. While they don't have the same depth and touch-play of a player like Hingis (sorry, I can't think of any other examples), they do have a very good handle on topspin and flattening out shots. They play patient power tennis, are fine baseline players, are highly capable at the net, and set up their points better than anyone on the tour (at their best). Even better than Hingis.

And now for something completely different:
Some of the recent posts don't reflect that the thread was designed to focus around the present day condition of Serena's game, which is in poor shape, if the past 52 weeks are a decent indicator. Some posters seem to think that just because people are not optimistic about Serena's future, they don't respect her results in the past, which simply isn't true. Being opinionated doesn't take away from their achievements.

AkademiQ
Feb 15th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Being opinionated doesn't take away from their achievements.

Having an opinion is not the problem but at times how that opinion is brought forward.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Feb 15th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Honestly, I would just like the sisters continue to do what they do best. That is prove people WRONG. They've done it throughout their careers. In 1997 when Venus first played a full schedule, they were already writing her off when she couldn't get past the QF of any tournament, then everyone is moded when she makes the finals of the US Open. People then started actually writing off Venus again after Serena won her first slam at the US Open in 1999, then what does Venus do? Takes a break due to wrist injury comes back...wins 4 of 6 grandslams between Wimbledon 2000 and US Open 2001. During that time people began to write Serena off saying her 1999 US Open win was a fluke, what does she do? Wins 4 grandslams in a row, winning 5 of 6 grandslams between the French Open 2002 and Wimbledon 2003, becoming #1 in the world and posting the best winning percentage in 2002-2003 since Steffi Graf. During that time Venus became #2 in the world (only after losing her #1 ranking to her little sister)thus fulfilling the prophecy made by their father that they'd be #1 and #2 in the world, which skeptics said would never happen. Injuries and tragedy brought upon more skeptics as both sisters struggled to find their dominant form in 2004. Skeptics began to lament that the game had caught up to them, that they had raised the bar so much that they couldn't cope with it themselves. What happens? Both sisters win grandslam titles in 2005, Serena gets to #2 in the world and stays in the top 4 until injuries take their toll. In the process of them winning their slams in 2005 they created memorable matches and reminded those more objective that there truly is something that sets these two apart from everyone else. There always has been, and always will be.

It's hard to fathom now, but I truly believe in my heart that these two aren't done proving people wrong. Maybe their careers are coming to a close, but I have this feeling (and it's only because I've been a fan of these girls) they'll definitely make another statement and prove people wrong before it's all said and done. This is Venus and Serena Williams people, not your typical players they do nothing wanted of them and nothing expected of them. They do what they will and will what they won't. Know this.

iWill
Feb 15th, 2006, 10:20 PM
No, no, no! I didn't state myself clearly, apparently.

Well, here goes:

"She's golden" just meant that she's back in business, her injuries didn't really affect her style of play. It's an expression, not a quality. It wasn't a reference to her playing style. And yes, Serena was destroying Hingis in 2000, 2001, 2002. However, this thread is talking about the future, and I'm not as convinced that Serena's comeback will be so simple. Serena's gameplan is based on her muscles and footspeed working with one another, not against one another, and judging by the past 9 months, she is not going to be able to move like she did when she was "waxing that ass". That's just my opinion based on other players comebacks (Graf in 98, Seles after she returned in 95).

And as for the latter half, how to put it... Serena isn't just a dumb jock, that's not what I'm saying at all. It takes a lot of thinking to hit the ball as consistently hard, accurate, and angled as she could at her peak. And she had touch aspects of her game, too. What I'm saying, though, is that Serena has become the victim of her muscles. She's put a lot of stress on her frame, and I have trouble imagining her being nearly as fast as she was in early 2005, or in the 2002-2003 sweep of tournaments. She's gained enough weight that it puts a lot of pressure on her knees and lower body, and the longer it stays, the harder it will be.

The reason Serena had the versatility to change her game in those peak years was because she was faster than anyone she faced. Look at the great players in history: Graf, Williams, Navratilova, early Seles. What is the linking factor? They were amazingly fit and fast. Even in the mens game, Borg, Laver, Sampras, Lendl, Federer? All of them were the finest movers on court.

As for Serena's version of power-tennis, 1-d isn't the best way to put it, but it saves a lot of time (which I don't often have). When Serena was the world beater in the early 2000's, the power players were a concentrated group (Williams, Williams, Pierce, Davenport, Capriati) near the top of the rankings. All of them had nuances to their styles that made them unique, such as the laser groundstrokes of Davenport, the serves of the Williams sisters, the inside-out forehand of Capriati. It made them all difficult to play against. Since the Williams sisters raised the bar, and I do think they did that, a lot of players are coming out with power games based on the same principles (big serve, big groundstrokes). The entire top 50 is littered with power players. Just look at the rankings: in the top 10, only two players don't rely on hitting 20+ winners a match (Mauresmo and Schnyder). While few of today's power players are as good as the Williams sisters were at their best, a lot more players have practiced against big hitters than in 2002-2003, when the ones who hit the ball SOOO hard were such an elite group. While every player has nuances in their game, the best of the best are getting more used to that, and without 100% commitment from Serena, I can't see how she will return to that unbeatable position she was once in.

As for the comments about Serena's accomplishments, I have no problem admiring her achievements. I think she's a phenomenal player when she gives it her all. But the past is not what this thread is about. The future is. Just based on recent history, this is my opinion of the future. And like I said, if there's one thing the Williams sisters will always be the best at, it's shutting up people like me.

I hope that clears up the confusion over "Golden" at least, I always forget that not everyone knows my old-school euphamisms!

I think the fact that a lot of players are using big serves and big groundstrokes in a way it made it not such a big deal to deal with Venus and Serena's power. HOWEVER its not their power or speed that makes them so hard to beat its the fact that when you think you have a winner or you think ur forcing them to come up with an impossible shot they would hit winners off it. I also think the reason they have been struggling now is obviously fitness but I think its also because they dont play enough. They feel confident in playing low amounts of tennis and doing well at the slams which is ok when your healthy and fit but when your struggling to get your game back playing alot of matches is helpful. Also if you havent noticed when they do win big like after their slams last year they were at every big event and then they both got injured right after cuz their bodies arent used all that rigourous tennis but if they played a full schedule all the time their injuries would GREATLY decrease just my theory but Im willing to guarantee if they played a FULL schedule for 1 year theyd finish 1 and 2 in the world again (kinda bold but I have faith in their abilities)

RVD
Feb 15th, 2006, 11:09 PM
No, no, no! I didn't state myself clearly, apparently.

Well, here goes:

"She's golden" just meant that she's back in business, her injuries didn't really affect her style of play. It's an expression, not a quality. It wasn't a reference to her playing style. And yes, Serena was destroying Hingis in 2000, 2001, 2002. However, this thread is talking about the future, and I'm not as convinced that Serena's comeback will be so simple. Serena's gameplan is based on her muscles and footspeed working with one another, not against one another, and judging by the past 9 months, she is not going to be able to move like she did when she was "waxing that ass". That's just my opinion based on other players comebacks (Graf in 98, Seles after she returned in 95).Ah. Okay. Thanks for the clarification. I understand where you're coming from now. :)

However, though I respect your analysis and your opinion, :D I still maintain that Serena could very well return faster, stronger, and more deadlier [ONLY] if she is able to re-discover the motivation to do so, and put in the hard work necessary. I'm not saying that it would be easy, but that it certainly would not be as difficult as you may think. My opinion of course.
The way I see it, Serena was born with all the tools necessary to do this very thing. :cool:
I realize many won't agree with me on this, but Serena needs to take a minimum of 1 1/2 years away from the tour to determine what she really wants [from the future]. To continue to play injured, return too soon, then re-injure herself again and again, certainly doesn't help her situation.

And as for the latter half, how to put it... Serena isn't just a dumb jock, that's not what I'm saying at all. It takes a lot of thinking to hit the ball as consistently hard, accurate, and angled as she could at her peak. And she had touch aspects of her game, too. What I'm saying, though, is that Serena has become the victim of her muscles. She's put a lot of stress on her frame, and I have trouble imagining her being nearly as fast as she was in early 2005, or in the 2002-2003 sweep of tournaments. She's gained enough weight that it puts a lot of pressure on her knees and lower body, and the longer it stays, the harder it will be.I agree in large part with this. Serena has exerted herself more than most players, but I believe this to be due to her strong desire to muscle her opponent off the court, and drive to be the best. But wasn't her style of play which you described, part of the Serena of old? You know, those early years ['97- 2000 or 2001] prior to her developing a better game?
I certainly recall matches during the 2002 - mid 2003 where Serena possessed an uncanny calm when dispatching her opponents. I might even call it near effortless execution. Yes, her serve was one main weapon that allowed her to excel, but the ability to regularly return with power and precision [painting the lines] was also key. ;) And we both know that one does not need power to paint the lines.

The reason Serena had the versatility to change her game in those peak years was because she was faster than anyone she faced. Look at the great players in history: Graf, Williams, Navratilova, early Seles. What is the linking factor? They were amazingly fit and fast. Even in the mens game, Borg, Laver, Sampras, Lendl, Federer? All of them were the finest movers on court.Speed alone does not give one the ability to formulate a plan though. Just the ability to react a bit faster than your opponent.
But let's be fair...Serena's opponents were no slouches either [Venus, Capriati, Hingis, Lindsay, and the myriad of star up-n-comers]. And just as the greats you listed listed had to change plans mid-match countless times, for the very reason you listed [...the other players becoming accustomed to her power], so did Serena.
Do you recall the days when all of the commentators were telling the other players to hit up the middle, or hit to her forehand, or serve into her body...etc, etc...? Or what about when her opponents changed their tactics? Didn't Serena have to compensate, and suddenly pull out a win at the very last moment?
Even though the games of many have adopted to Serena's style of play, she's had more experience with it, and should adopt to her advesaries like the champion that she is.

As for Serena's version of power-tennis, 1-d isn't the best way to put it, but it saves a lot of time (which I don't often have). When Serena was the world beater in the early 2000's, the power players were a concentrated group (Williams, Williams, Pierce, Davenport, Capriati) near the top of the rankings. All of them had nuances to their styles that made them unique, such as the laser groundstrokes of Davenport, the serves of the Williams sisters, the inside-out forehand of Capriati. It made them all difficult to play against. Since the Williams sisters raised the bar, and I do think they did that, a lot of players are coming out with power games based on the same principles (big serve, big groundstrokes). The entire top 50 is littered with power players. Just look at the rankings: in the top 10, only two players don't rely on hitting 20+ winners a match (Mauresmo and Schnyder). While few of today's power players are as good as the Williams sisters were at their best, a lot more players have practiced against big hitters than in 2002-2003, when the ones who hit the ball SOOO hard were such an elite group. While every player has nuances in their game, the best of the best are getting more used to that, and without 100% commitment from Serena, I can't see how she will return to that unbeatable position she was once in.I found this very interesting [in a good way]. and also agree... with most of it. ;) However, I still don't know about that 1-d tag you've labeled her with. But I undertsand your desire to truncate the explanation. So no prob. :cool:

As for the comments about Serena's accomplishments, I have no problem admiring her achievements. I think she's a phenomenal player when she gives it her all. But the past is not what this thread is about. The future is. Just based on recent history, this is my opinion of the future. And like I said, if there's one thing the Williams sisters will always be the best at, it's shutting up people like me.As a Serena fan, I appreciate your fairness and honesty. You are one of VERY FEW who has actually given Serena praise...without it being a backhanded one. :lol:

And as for as the future of her game...
That's what makes this sport so interesting. At least to me. Because players have been able to return from insurmountable odd [cancer, frequent operations, broken bones, drugs use...] and win not only tier I titles, but slams as well. One just never knows what the future holds. Personally, I am keeping the faith in my fave strong. :wavey:

I hope that clears up the confusion over "Golden" at least, I always forget that not everyone knows my old-school euphamisms!:lol: Yeah. Your definition of 'golden' was different from mine. But thanks again for clarifying. :wavey:

Orion
Feb 15th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Ah. Okay. Thanks for the clarification. I understand where you're coming from now. :)

However, though I respect your analysis and your opinion, :D I still maintain that Serena could very well return faster, stronger, and more deadlier [ONLY] if she is able to re-discover the motivation to do so, and put in the hard work necessary. I'm not saying that it would be easy, but that it certainly would not be as difficult as you may think. My opinion of course.
The way I see it, Serena was born with all the tools necessary to do this very thing. :cool:
I realize many won't agree with me on this, but Serena needs to take a minimum of 1 1/2 years away from the tour to determine what she really wants [from the future]. To continue to play injured, return too soon, then re-injure herself again and again, certainly doesn't help her situation.

I agree in large part with this. Serena has exerted herself more than most players, but I believe this to be due to her strong desire to muscle her opponent off the court, and drive to be the best. But wasn't her style of play which you described, part of the Serena of old? You know, those early years ['97- 2000 or 2001] prior to her developing a better game?
I certainly recall matches during the 2002 - mid 2003 where Serena possessed an uncanny calm when dispatching her opponents. I might even call it near effortless execution. Yes, her serve was one main weapon that allowed her to excel, but the ability to regularly return with power and precision [painting the lines] was also key. ;) And we both know that one does not need power to paint the lines.

Speed alone does not give one the ability to formulate a plan though. Just the ability to react a bit faster than your opponent.
But let's be fair...Serena's opponents were no slouches either [Venus, Capriati, Hingis, Lindsay, and the myriad of star up-n-comers]. And just as the greats you listed listed had to change plans mid-match countless times, for the very reason you listed [...the other players becoming accustomed to her power], so did Serena.
Do you recall the days when all of the commentators were telling the other players to hit up the middle, or hit to her forehand, or serve into her body...etc, etc...? Or what about when her opponents changed their tactics? Didn't Serena have to compensate, and suddenly pull out a win at the very last moment?
Even though the games of many have adopted to Serena's style of play, she's had more experience with it, and should adopt to her advesaries like the champion that she is.

I found this very interesting [in a good way]. and also agree... with most of it. ;) However, I still don't know about that 1-d tag you've labeled her with. But I undertsand your desire to truncate the explanation. So no prob. :cool:

As a Serena fan, I appreciate your fairness and honesty. You are one of VERY FEW who has actually given Serena praise...without it being a backhanded one. :lol:

And as for as the future of her game...
That's what makes this sport so interesting. At least to me. Because players have been able to return from insurmountable odd [cancer, frequent operations, broken bones, drugs use...] and win not only tier I titles, but slams as well. One just never knows what the future holds. Personally, I am keeping the faith in my fave strong. :wavey:

:lol: Yeah. Your definition of 'golden' was different from mine. But thanks again for clarifying. :wavey:

Great post. I'm glad we sorted that out. I hate feeling like I'm disliked on the board over misunderstandings. I look forward to more discussions like this! And I'm glad we can agree to disagree, and still post intelligently!

RVD
Feb 15th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Great post. I'm glad we sorted that out. I hate feeling like I'm disliked on the board over misunderstandings. I look forward to more discussions like this! And I'm glad we can agree to disagree, and still post intelligently!:yeah: :yeah: :wavey: :kiss:

darrinbaker00
Feb 15th, 2006, 11:35 PM
Excuse you??? Please don't associate me with that liar in the White House, and please don't insult my home state. I didn't personally attack you or where you come from in order to make my point. I'm not sure why you feel the need to do so.

I think your memory is selective. You've always complained and criticized them, particularly Serena for her off-court activities. You claim that you didn't have a problem with it back when they were winning, but if that's the case, why were you so critical of it in 2003? The issue being that you've always had a problem with it, and now it seems you're backpeddling to make your point.
Have you any examples?

Denise4925
Feb 16th, 2006, 01:43 AM
Have you any examples?
From Yahoo?? It depresses me just to click on the site. So, no I won't be going over there sifting through posts from 2003 that are probably already deleted by the admin.

What difference does it make anyway? It's not that big of a deal. I'm probably taking all this way too seriously, anyway. ;)

darrinbaker00
Feb 16th, 2006, 04:20 AM
From Yahoo?? It depresses me just to click on the site. So, no I won't be going over there sifting through posts from 2003 that are probably already deleted by the admin.

What difference does it make anyway? It's not that big of a deal. I'm probably taking all this way too seriously, anyway. ;)
One step down, 11 to go.....

Denise4925
Feb 16th, 2006, 03:52 PM
One step down, 11 to go.....
Thanks for the support. With your experience, can I count on you to be my sponsor? :)

Denise4925
Feb 16th, 2006, 04:03 PM
Speed alone does not give one the ability to formulate a plan though. Just the ability to react a bit faster than your opponent.
But let's be fair...Serena's opponents were no slouches either [Venus, Capriati, Hingis, Lindsay, and the myriad of star up-n-comers]. And just as the greats you listed listed had to change plans mid-match countless times, for the very reason you listed [...the other players becoming accustomed to her power], so did Serena.
Do you recall the days when all of the commentators were telling the other players to hit up the middle, or hit to her forehand, or serve into her body...etc, etc...? Or what about when her opponents changed their tactics? Didn't Serena have to compensate, and suddenly pull out a win at the very last moment?
Even though the games of many have adopted to Serena's style of play, she's had more experience with it, and should adopt to her advesaries like the champion that she is.


:worship: I think that people tend to forget this fact when talking about the WS versus the up and coming power players.

darrinbaker00
Feb 16th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Thanks for the support. With your experience, can I count on you to be my sponsor? :)
Of course. Repeat after me: "My name is Denise, and I'm a WTAworld addict." Trust me, I've been there. ;)

Now semi-seriously, folks.....since we have neither seen nor heard from las soeurs Williams this week, chances are they're playing Dubai next week. I hope they wind up on opposite ends of the draw, because I'd hate to see Serena go out early. :tape:

Aquanetta
Feb 16th, 2006, 04:13 PM
:scratch:

Ira wrote:



You'll probably be perplexed for the rest of your stay at WTA World on why some are able to accept Venus and Serena as they are in times of great triumph and in times of low defeat because you arent listening to what some are really saying. Until then you'll be scratching your head and venting your pent up frustration asking the same ole question.

I'll wait with bated breath on that bad rep. It's all your good for toots :kiss:

I'm listening. The thing is I just can't believe what these particular fans have to say. Of course, we can ride with our faves through the highs and lows but I don't see what the problem is with criticizing Serena and Venus during this dismal time in their career. Some of you get tired of seeing people on this board harp on their slump but my reaction is common among sports fans who don't like seeing their faves flounder their talent. I can deal with defeat but it's so difficult to see Serena so disinterested and unmotivated.

Aquanetta
Feb 16th, 2006, 04:17 PM
I'm still puzzled about how a supposed fellow fan creates a mantra and/or label for her fellow fans. And, I don't understand what it means or how it applies.

Supposed? You're wrong. Denise, I drove 12 hours to Quebec City to see Serena maker her tour debut. I love her! The mantra, "we chose them, they didn't choose us" seems like something someone made up to mask Serena and Venus's slump. In other words, if they were doing well, nobody would be saying that. I know, I know, somebody will most likely chime in that the mantra is an intelligent response and how logical it is but I just don't buy it. It sounds so bogus.

Aquanetta
Feb 16th, 2006, 04:19 PM
I think once the next great 'black' hope comes along, we'll all forget about Serena and leave her alone to languish in tennis mediocrity that she has chosen. The problem for some of us is there is no one to replace the WS so we bitch about their lack of motivation.

To have an inkling of how difficult it is to achieve what these girls have achieved coming from their background, you only need to look at the bleak prospects of up and coming players of colour.

To be honest, the WS have ruined tennis for me, before they came on the scene, I used to enjoy tennis for the spectacle. Now with them out of contention, it just bores me stiff, I hope I get out of this phase because I love the sport dearly.

Good post! :yeah: Serena languishing in mediocrity may be the wake-up call she (and Venus) needs.

Denise4925
Feb 16th, 2006, 05:15 PM
Supposed? You're wrong. Denise, I drove 12 hours to Quebec City to see Serena maker her tour debut. I love her! The mantra, "we chose them, they didn't choose us" seems like something someone made up to mask Serena and Venus's slump. In other words, if they were doing well, nobody would be saying that. I know, I know, somebody will most likely chime in that the mantra is an intelligent response and how logical it is but I just don't buy it. It sounds so bogus.
But, nobody is saying it but you. I don't think any of their fans are in denial about the state of their game, but it's annoying to talk about it all of the time. How many times can you say the same thing without it becoming redundant? Don't you get bored talking about the same thing all of the time? What is it that you expect of the fans?

harloo
Feb 16th, 2006, 05:16 PM
I think once the next great 'black' hope comes along, we'll all forget about Serena and leave her alone to languish in tennis mediocrity that she has chosen. The problem for some of us is there is no one to replace the WS so we bitch about their lack of motivation.

Serena will never be forgotten regardless of what new prospect comes along. She has already made a huge impact on tennis and both her and Venus can leave tommorrow and still be in the history books.

Their may not be many up and coming black players that are championship worthy but we have many who are playing. Shenay Perry, James Blake, Scoville Jenkins, Monfis, etc. I will follow these players, but I am a fan of tennis regardless if the sisters are playing or not. I will be sad to see them leave but that's life.

To have an inkling of how difficult it is to achieve what these girls have achieved coming from their background, you only need to look at the bleak prospects of up and coming players of colour.

All you can do is hope that a black player breaks through. Many said that Venus and Serena would never be slam champions but they proved everyone wrong. Give the new prospects of colour a chance. :D ;)

To be honest, the WS have ruined tennis for me, before they came on the scene, I used to enjoy tennis for the spectacle. Now with them out of contention, it just bores me stiff, I hope I get out of this phase because I love the sport dearly.

If you were a fan of the game before the sisters arrived why would they alter your enjoyment of the sport? :scratch:

harloo
Feb 16th, 2006, 05:27 PM
But, nobody is saying it but you. I don't think any of their fans are in denial about the state of their game, but it's annoying to talk about it all of the time. How many times can you say the same thing without it becoming redundant? Don't you get bored talking about the same thing all of the time? What is it that you expect of the fans?

:confused: I don't understand why Aquanetta keeps repeating, "they chose us, we didn't chose them"? It sounds like a line she picked up from a movie.:tape: :lol:

Denise4925
Feb 16th, 2006, 05:56 PM
:confused: I don't understand why Aquanetta keeps repeating, "they chose us, we didn't chose them"? It sounds like a line she picked up from a movie.:tape: :lol:
:lol:

AkademiQ
Feb 16th, 2006, 06:01 PM
I'm listening. The thing is I just can't believe what these particular fans have to say.

You can't believe or you won't try to understand?

Of course, we can ride with our faves through the highs and lows but I don't see what the problem is with criticizing Serena and Venus during this dismal time in their career. Some of you get tired of seeing people on this board harp on their slump but my reaction is common among sports fans who don't like seeing their faves flounder their talent. I can deal with defeat but it's so difficult to see Serena so disinterested and unmotivated.

Criticism isn't out of the question. None of the fans who are being chided and wrongly so for 'blindly worshipping' the sisters can be counted among the ones to have never criticised or knocked a decision, a loss bye either Serena or Venus. However a big difference is in the approach and in the way that criticism comes out. An opinion is an opinion but you're bound to get more people to open their ears, their minds and eyes to any viewpoint by how you come across with it. If you come across with it in a way that shuts down conversation and effectively leaves no room for discussion what do you or anyone expect?

We're fans of Venus and Serena, that pretty much shouldn't be in question and right now instead of the subject being either one and their current status the fans have been brought into it and that in my opinion is largely based on how people are talking to one another. Change that and you're only left with the option to talk about the tennis and the reality of it.

Aquanetta
Feb 16th, 2006, 06:05 PM
:confused: I don't understand why Aquanetta keeps repeating, "they chose us, we didn't chose them"? It sounds like a line she picked up from a movie.:tape: :lol:

I'm quoting Rocketta.

Aquanetta
Feb 16th, 2006, 06:07 PM
You can't believe or you won't try to understand?



Criticism isn't out of the question. None of the fans who are being chided and wrongly so for 'blindly worshipping' the sisters can be counted among the ones to have never criticised or knocked a decision, a loss bye either Serena or Venus. However a big difference is in the approach and in the way that criticism comes out. An opinion is an opinion but you're bound to get more people to open their ears, their minds and eyes to any viewpoint by how you come across with it. If you come across with it in a way that shuts down conversation and effectively leaves no room for discussion what do you or anyone expect?

We're fans of Venus and Serena, that pretty much shouldn't be in question and right now instead of the subject being either one and their current status the fans have been brought into it and that in my opinion is largely based on how people are talking to one another. Change that and you're only left with the option to talk about the tennis and the reality of it.

Thanks for being tactful. That's a good point you made that I put in bold above. I will keep that in mind for posterity.

Paialii
Feb 16th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Yes, let's all say that Serena needs to retire so that she'll be forgotten.

That way, in about a month when she's competing and winning tournaments again, we can all eat our words.

Give it a rest, people. :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Feb 16th, 2006, 06:52 PM
dang, Harloo, it sounds like it came out of a movie? Really??? Which one? :bounce: Hmmm, maybe I should write one liners for screen plays? :scratch:

A new career move just opened up. :banana:

Pureracket
Feb 16th, 2006, 06:54 PM
dang, Harloo, it sounds like it came out of a movie? Really??? Which one? :bounce: Hmmm, maybe I should write one liners for screen plays? :scratch:

A new career move just opened up. :banana:'cketta, I forgot all about the AI Thread you had open. I'm sorry 'bout that. (I am letting it sink to the bottom of the barrel).

You need to lay off the Tar Heels. Jealousy kills.

Rocketta
Feb 16th, 2006, 07:08 PM
'cketta, I forgot all about the AI Thread you had open. I'm sorry 'bout that. (I am letting it sink to the bottom of the barrel).

You need to lay off the Tar Heels. Jealousy kills.

:haha:

Yeah well it's hard not to be jealous of big grown men wearing baby blue. :o

Pureracket
Feb 16th, 2006, 07:11 PM
:haha:

Yeah well it's hard not to be jealous of big grown men wearing baby blue. :oLOL! Obviously, you wouldn't be jealous of me today either, then. (I'm wearing a baby blue turtleneck with dark brown-suede pants). :lol:

Rocketta
Feb 16th, 2006, 07:12 PM
LOL! Obviously, you wouldn't be jealous of me today either, then. (I'm wearing a baby blue turtleneck with dark brown-suede pants). :lol:

;)

ayanate
Feb 16th, 2006, 07:40 PM
If you were a fan of the game before the sisters arrived why would they alter your enjoyment of the sport? :scratch:

I rarely engage another poster but I thought I'll clear this up. The simple answer to your question is 'adrenalin rush'. You have a test of caviar, now the once nice Micky D taste like paper.

Denise4925
Feb 16th, 2006, 08:19 PM
I rarely engage another poster but I thought I'll clear this up. The simple answer to your question is 'adrenalin rush'. You have a test of caviar, now the once nice Micky D taste like paper.
I can see why you rarely engage other posters :tape:

Stamp Paid
Feb 16th, 2006, 08:30 PM
I can see why you rarely engage other posters :tape:

:spit: :haha: death

hingis-seles
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:08 PM
A Williams will win Miami...mark my words...:D

:p

tennisboi
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Maybe Serena should take a temporary retirement and get herself sorted and come back next January. I think that she needs a break to evaluate the situation

tenn_ace
Mar 27th, 2006, 05:49 PM
A Williams will win Miami...mark my words...:D


Marking the words like the dogs do... :wavey: :lol:

Carmen Mairena
Mar 27th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Serena :sad:

darrinbaker00
Mar 29th, 2006, 06:23 AM
Maybe Serena should take a temporary retirement and get herself sorted and come back next January. I think that she needs a break to evaluate the situation
Quit partying and start practicing. Evaluation over.

topspin
Mar 29th, 2006, 08:43 AM
That was pretty good, my brother. I'm glad you were able to have a laugh at my expense.

If I had my way, Venus and Serena would be #1 and #2 in the rankings (preferably in that order, although I wouldn't quibble too much if it were the other way around). If they can do all that other stuff and remain on top, like they did in '02-03, I wouldn't have a problem with it, just like I didn't have a problem with it back then. The problem I have is that both of them keep saying that tennis is their top priority, then show up for the first major of the year totally unprepared. Not only did Venus get BAGELED on her way to losing to the 94th-ranked player in the world (playing in her first major, no less), but she was hitting the ball all over the place. Serena managed to win two matches, but her first-round match went one set too long, and we all know about her conditioning. As far as my expectations go, I don't expect any more from the sisters than they say they expect from themselves. They keep saying they expect to win more majors and get back to the top, and I'm taking them at their word. However, when they spend more time attending parties than playing tennis, it's only logical that people question their word. Venus can be the world's greatest interior designer whan she's 40, 50, or 60; she doesn't have to do that right now. Serena can be the world's greatest fashion designer when she's 40, 50 or 60; she doesn't have to do that right now. They cannot and will not be the world's greatest female tennis players when they're 40, 50 or 60; their time to do that IS right now. If Serena and Venus are no longer motivated to be the best, and if they have accomplished all they wanted to accomplish in tennis, then they should move on; no harm, no foul, no animosity. Unlike others, though, I do not, and will not, believe that they've done all they wanted to do, and they CERTAINLY haven't done all they are capable of doing. Contrary to what others in this thread have posted, I am not trying to "control" any fans; believe me, I am not delusional enough to think that I have that kind of power over people. I just don't understand how anyone be content with how they're playing right now and call himself or herself a fan; please explain that to me if you can. I will always root for the sisters to win, and if either or both of them are playing Stanford this year, my future wife and I WILL be there. I just want to see them get back to where they keep saying they should be.

One last thing: in 2002, Lindsay Davenport had arthroscopic surgery on her right knee. In 2003, Lindsay had surgery on her left foot. On October 18, 2004, Lindsay regained the #1 ranking, which she held until January 31, 2006. It wasn't Serena's knee that started the problem; it was her heart and her head.

darrinbaker, there are some Venus and/or Serena fans who share the same opinion as you. You, WF4EVER, roarke, I, and other Williams fans and non-Williams fans have been called or labelled "fake fans" or "non-true" fans at some point because we care about enough to be concerned as to whether Venus and Serena are wasting their talent and potential.

It isn't all about winning. There was an article posted a couple weeks ago about Janet Lee. The article stated she had to come to a decision in which she chose to pursue her education instead of a tennis career. Maybe, she came to the realization after being on tour for a while she would never achieve the tennis results that she had hoped for. Or maybe without a major sponser and spectacular results, tennis could come a financial burden. In that case one could understand her decision to pursue an education in order to be prepared for the future.

If Venus and Serena were in that same type of situation, one could not find fault or blame them in going for outside interests to be set for the rest of their life. BUT, there is difference between them and Janet Lee. V & S have the potential to win at least 10 slams. V & S have the potential and the opportunity to achieve major success year after year.

If V & S did all they could do to reach their full potential and they still came up on the losing side, I would still be happy because they put their best and full effort into becoming the best that they could be. That thought is what the others who call V & S fans who offer constructive criticism of them "fake fans" or "non-real fans" fail to see.

If you know family members, friends, or associates who were letting opportunities or an opportunity of a lifetime go by, wouldn't you want to at least try to talk them about it? Or would you say "as long as they are happy and doing what is best for them, that is all that matter, even when what they want might not be the best thing for them?"

Rocketta
Mar 29th, 2006, 03:17 PM
topspin, who gets to decide what's best for you in your adult age? I would bet it's you. Venus and Serena should get the same opportunity. Just because "you" can't see a decision being the best for them doesn't mean it isn't. Here's a thought....sometimes the mistakes we make in life are the best decisions we ever make because a lot of times they take us in directions we would've never thought about....in directions we need to go and would've never gone had it not been for that initial bad decision. No one knows how the choices Venus and Serena are making will effect them for the rest of their life but God but I do know that if they are making wrong choices it's theirs to make and frankly it's much easier to live with bad choices and mistakes when they are your own and not what others wanted you to do.

So care about their potential...think they should each have ten slams but just know those are your wants and wishes and may not be theirs.

Bankhead Bounce
Mar 29th, 2006, 05:34 PM
:yawn:

topspin
Mar 30th, 2006, 05:07 AM
Rocketta, I hear what you are saying. But, the point is not about them winning 10 slams or 15 slams. It's about taking advantage of the opportunties that are given to you while they present themselves to you. The main fact of life is you never know the twist that life will take you.

I agree with the last part of your post. Sometimes, it is best to do what you want to do and learn from your own mistakes. That's when you learn another fact of life. When you do what you want to do and if it so happen you reach reach rock bottom, you never imagine the difficulty and struggle involved just to get back to the starting line. When you do get back to the starting line, you never realize the amount of time and the effort it will take to move one foot past it. Those same opportunites that were present yesterday are no longer to be found today. That's when you appreciate and realize those same people who were trying to rule your life or to tell you what to do where really looking out for your best interests.

That's why I care. Oracene had stated her biggest fear is that she hopes her daughters don't end up like Joe Louis and other black stars who made it to the top and lived a life of poverty. As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, tennis brings V & S exposure and this in turns presents the opportunity to put them in a position to make increased gains on all opportunites that come their way.

And if there are other fans who want to see Serena and Venus on the tennis court, it doesn't make them less of a fan. The point could me made if the fan was the type who only cheer for the wins and discredit them when they lose.

darrinbaker00
Mar 30th, 2006, 05:24 AM
So care about their potential...think they should each have ten slams but just know those are your wants and wishes and may not be theirs.
The problem, Fair Maiden, is that they keep saying that IS what they want to do, then they contradict themselves by not playing. I don't doubt that Venus' elbow is hurting; in fact, since her racquet weighs less than 10 ounces and she doesn't use a vibration dampener, I'm surprised she's lasted this long without getting tennis elbow. However, I honestly believe that if she really wanted to play, she would have found a way to work around it. If she and Serena are unWILLING for whatever reason, that's their business, but I wish they would stop insulting my intelligence by saying they're unABLE to play, because that's rubbish.

Rocketta
Mar 30th, 2006, 05:35 AM
The problem, Fair Maiden, is that they keep saying that IS what they want to do, then they contradict themselves by not playing. I don't doubt that Venus' elbow is hurting; in fact, since her racquet weighs less than 10 ounces and she doesn't use a vibration dampener, I'm surprised she's lasted this long without getting tennis elbow. However, I honestly believe that if she really wanted to play, she would have found a way to work around it. If she and Serena are unWILLING for whatever reason, that's their business, but I wish they would stop insulting my intelligence by saying they're unABLE to play, because that's rubbish.

boy, you sure are in on the inside gossip....you know this how? Oh that's right it's your opinion of which you are entitled to but it's no more valid than anyone elses no matter how many times you say it. Also, we say alot of things and who knows when they said it they may have meant it but what does that have to do with today? Two weeks ago I said it was my goal to walk at lunch everyday and that it was important to me to do this.....and well it just hasn't worked out that way....doesn't make me a liar because I meant it when I said it but if everything worked out just because we said them I would've won the lottery by now. :)

Reuchlin
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:20 AM
Yes, let's all say that Serena needs to retire so that she'll be forgotten.

That way, in about a month when she's competing and winning tournaments again, we can all eat our words.

Give it a rest, people. :rolleyes:
:worship:

Rub
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:26 AM
the article is not so false...

fifiricci
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:24 AM
I wish they would just leave the girl alone, dang this what they wanted now they need to deal with it.

That's a very immature response. The article isn't unreasonable nor is it derogatory. And doesn't it occur to you that Serena would probably be HORRIFIED if the press and paparazzi left her alone? I imagine that she likes nothing better than all this attention and speculation (and it must be good for "business" too) :p

Louis Cyphre
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:30 AM
That's a very immature response. The article isn't unreasonable nor is it derogatory. And doesn't it occur to you that Serena would probably be HORRIFIED if the press and paparazzi left her alone? I imagine that she likes nothing better than all this attention and speculation (and it must be good for "business" too) :p
Hater!!! ;)

fifiricci
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Hater!!! ;)

I'm confident that you are joking, so much so that I haven't checked to see if you've bad repped me :lol:.

Seriously, who would want to be left alone from publicity and attention when they are in the course of setting up a new business empire. Duh! ;)

Louis Cyphre
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:35 AM
I'm confident that you are joking, so much so that I haven't checked to see if you've bad repped me :lol:.

Seriously, who would want to be left alone from publicity and attention when they are in the course of setting up a new business empire. Duh! ;)
:lol: I already did :lol: I mean you are right but it`s something that some people will not understand and you`ll become a hater and a troll :lol:

fifiricci
Mar 30th, 2006, 09:37 AM
:lol: I already did :lol: I mean you are right but it`s something that some people will not understand and you`ll become a hater and a troll :lol:

:eek: surely not! Should I be "very afraid"? :lol:

TheItalianStyle
Mar 30th, 2006, 10:18 AM
Actually i think she wuold do better playing a few matches, probably losing a few first or second round, but anywhere she'd test her conditions...C'mon Sere....we're waiting you back