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View Full Version : All players except Hingis are untalented


borisy
Feb 9th, 2006, 01:16 PM
Recently much has been written about the Hingis comeback and almost everyone agrees that she is very talented. However all these things written in the media seems to have gone too far because in most of these articles we see statements such as "compared to Hingis, X is just another mindless ball basher" or "compared to Hingis, Y only survives because of her fighting spirit". We've read these comments for Clijsters, Pierce, Dementieva, Sharapova...

I like Hingis but I don't agree with all this degrading of all other players' talents just to praise her.

new-york
Feb 9th, 2006, 01:20 PM
Just pay attention of those who'll just read the title. :)

I think Hingisget a lot of compliment because she has a great comeback now, and back at the days, people were amazed on how she managed to play her unpowered but smart game against the biggies, and still survive. I mean, yeah, the girl just know how to put the ball, period.
But i feel you. There's other players waiting for nice articles.

alfajeffster
Feb 9th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Recently much has been written about the Hingis comeback and almost everyone agrees that she is very talented. However all these things written in the media seems to have gone too far because in most of these articles we see statements such as "compared to Hingis, X is just another mindless ball basher" or "compared to Hingis, Y only survives because of her fighting spirit". We've read these comments for Clijsters, Pierce, Dementieva, Sharapova...

I like Hingis but I don't agree with all this degrading of all other players' talents just to praise her.

You make a valid point. It's soooo refreshing to see a thinker back on the court, but there are other players who have much better serves and other shots than Hingis. There isn't anyone who uses all the shots with such mind-blowing precision as Hingis, though. I think what is really happening is that the power players who have never seen her play before are seeing a reflection of what their own games could be like if they added more cognitive thought to the power and placement.

LostGlory
Feb 9th, 2006, 01:40 PM
R we talking current and retired players or just current?

Hingis is extremely talented.....

Patty is another player who is extremely talented........

Mauresmo is extremely talented.....

JHH is very talented.......

Venus is very talented.......

Most top players if not all are very talented the difference is that Hingis is the smartest.....she can work out a game plan on court....

SelesFan70
Feb 9th, 2006, 01:46 PM
Wait until Monica comes back... :p

Erika_Angel
Feb 9th, 2006, 01:49 PM
since when do finesse players become the only players with talent? Whether you want to believe it or not, playing a power game is rather difficult and you need alot of talent for that too regardless or how well you can slice, serve & volley or hit topspin lobs.

Helen Lawson
Feb 9th, 2006, 02:04 PM
My favorite here on the board is when some player has a bad serve and little power, suddently, "she plays like Hingis." Huh? :confused:

Dementinator
Feb 9th, 2006, 02:25 PM
well "a mindless ball basher" killed her on sunday

Martian Jeza
Feb 9th, 2006, 02:29 PM
There are players with a huge talent but waste it : Daniela Hantuchova ( Never worked on her mental weaknesses ), Jelena Dokic ( 6-7 years ago described as a very talented girl : see where she is : terrible ) and I Have to forget some others...

TonyP
Feb 9th, 2006, 03:27 PM
A few points. First, remember, it is not Hingis or even Hingis fans making these comments, they are coming from the media.

And the media tends to be very trendy. Reporters jump on the bandwagon all the time for one reason or another.

I think there are obviously some problems with the power game, though, and one result of it has been the massive number of injuries that have plagued the sport in recent years. Indeed, our latest slam singles champion may be the first in history to have had three of her seven opponents retire during their matches.

Another issue is that Hingis' brand of tennis appears to require more skill, because of the massive numbers of unforced errors connected to power tennis, with as many as 20 UE's per set being common for some players.

Finally, there is pure excitement factor, which is certainly open to dispute. I will agree that sometimes hitting a cold winner on the second or third stroke looks impressive, just as smashing an ace on the serve looks impressive.

But it has always struck me that what gets tennis fans out of their seats and on their feet cheering are the complicated points when both players are scurrying all over the court, running side to side or baseline to net or both, all in one point.

This may be a generational thing and there are those who say the new generation has a much shorter attention span and prefers short points, because they always want to move on to the next thrill.

Hingis is sort of a throw back to an early time and what is interesting is whether or not many others can play her way, or does it take a player with Martina Hingis' talent to get by in the era of power tennis? We'll have to see.

jochem
Feb 9th, 2006, 04:23 PM
In my opinion all lets say top 20 players are talented with the top being even more... Considering how many people on this earth play the game and how many players are at this top you cannnot say that any of the top 10/20 are untalented.

ToeTag
Feb 9th, 2006, 04:52 PM
you cannnot say that any of the top 10/20 are untalented. No but their hit or miss style of play is boring to watch though.

Orion
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:09 PM
well "a mindless ball basher" killed her on sunday

You're missing the point. borisy is pointing out that there are talented players who are denegrated simply because Hingis plays such a cerebral form of tennis. He's stating that there aren't as many mindless ball bashers as people think.

Orion
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:10 PM
since when do finesse players become the only players with talent? Whether you want to believe it or not, playing a power game is rather difficult and you need alot of talent for that too regardless or how well you can slice, serve & volley or hit topspin lobs.

Read the original post. Then think it over. Then re-write what you posted.

Orion
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:11 PM
Wait until Monica comes back... :p

See reply to Erika_Angel.

Erika_Angel
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:14 PM
Read the original post. Then think it over. Then re-write what you posted.

My post was in reply to those who think that talent=finesse. It wasn't to the original poster.

goldenboi356
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:30 PM
u're elevating hingis too high...to say all the other players like serena, venus, jj, kim, etc. are untalented is an insult cause they have got to have some talent to accomplished what they did.

alfajeffster
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:42 PM
A few points. First, remember, it is not Hingis or even Hingis fans making these comments, they are coming from the media.

And the media tends to be very trendy. Reporters jump on the bandwagon all the time for one reason or another.

I think there are obviously some problems with the power game, though, and one result of it has been the massive number of injuries that have plagued the sport in recent years. Indeed, our latest slam singles champion may be the first in history to have had three of her seven opponents retire during their matches.

Another issue is that Hingis' brand of tennis appears to require more skill, because of the massive numbers of unforced errors connected to power tennis, with as many as 20 UE's per set being common for some players.

Finally, there is pure excitement factor, which is certainly open to dispute. I will agree that sometimes hitting a cold winner on the second or third stroke looks impressive, just as smashing an ace on the serve looks impressive.

But it has always struck me that what gets tennis fans out of their seats and on their feet cheering are the complicated points when both players are scurrying all over the court, running side to side or baseline to net or both, all in one point.

This may be a generational thing and there are those who say the new generation has a much shorter attention span and prefers short points, because they always want to move on to the next thrill.

Hingis is sort of a throw back to an early time and what is interesting is whether or not many others can play her way, or does it take a player with Martina Hingis' talent to get by in the era of power tennis? We'll have to see.

This is a great post, TonyP, and I pretty much agree with everything it says. I was watching the 1970 Wimbledon Final (Court def. King) again last night, and it was amazing how many points, especially in the first set, had the crowd oooing and ahhhing when the girls used all the shots in the book and the winning point after serves volleys, lobs, passing shots and drop shots was a surprise. It happened in that one particular match probably more than any other major final (at least that I've seen), but it is definintely nice to see someone like Hingis back in the driver's seat by using the whole court and the whole game of tennis. It's not just a throw back to an earlier time, it's living proof that the game hasn't gone anywhere, it's just progressively not being used. I am hopeful that a player without quite the size limitations that Hingis has will come along and pace herself in order to realize her full potential as a tennis player.

SvetaPleaseWin.
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:45 PM
patty is more talented than hingis.

dinhd82
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Martina is definitely a throw back to an early time and it's not a surprise the media is so hyped up about her game again but I recall not too long ago they were praising all the big hitters and almost literally issued Hingis a has been title. Media is very trendy indeed.

Martian KC
Feb 9th, 2006, 05:58 PM
patty is more talented than hingis.

And so is maria, serena, lindsay, venus, sveta, clijsters, etc. Thanks for getting the gest of the topic in hand.

Dan23
Feb 10th, 2006, 02:01 AM
Recently much has been written about the Hingis comeback and almost everyone agrees that she is very talented. However all these things written in the media seems to have gone too far because in most of these articles we see statements such as "compared to Hingis, X is just another mindless ball basher" or "compared to Hingis, Y only survives because of her fighting spirit". We've read these comments for Clijsters, Pierce, Dementieva, Sharapova...

I like Hingis but I don't agree with all this degrading of all other players' talents just to praise her.
been thinking along the same lines lately
the thread title doesnt do your post justice

UDACHi
Feb 10th, 2006, 02:04 AM
:haha: LMAO at the people just reading the title. :p

Hingie
Feb 10th, 2006, 03:11 AM
Let me put forward this thought:

If Martina didn't have as much talent as she possesses, how would she of ever been able to compete the way she has? She's not a super athlete in terms of muscle mass or stamina, she doesn't have blinding power on her groundstrokes, she doesn't have a massive serve.

Everything on paper indicates she shouldn't have won 5 slams and over 40 singles titles yet she does. It is all the intangibles that she does have (anticipation, court craft, quality of defence, early ball strike, court sense) that allows her to compete.

For me, a talented player is unique, they are born with this gift that can't be taught and if this is the case, then certainly Martina is the most talented on court.
But then again, just my opinion.

Dan23
Feb 10th, 2006, 03:21 AM
Theres no attack on Hingis' talent level here, its just about the perception that finesse and 'cleverness' = more talent. Plenty of the other players including those who hit with power may be just as talented.

Summer_Snow
Feb 10th, 2006, 03:25 AM
Let me put forward this thought:

If Martina didn't have as much talent as she possesses, how would she of ever been able to compete the way she has? She's not a super athlete in terms of muscle mass or stamina, she doesn't have blinding power on her groundstrokes, she doesn't have a massive serve.

Everything on paper indicates she shouldn't have won 5 slams and over 40 singles titles yet she does. It is all the intangibles that she does have (anticipation, court craft, quality of defence, early ball strike, court sense) that allows her to compete.

For me, a talented player is unique, they are born with this gift that can't be taught and if this is the case, then certainly Martina is the most talented on court.
But then again, just my opinion.

:worship: Awesome post!! Especially the last paragraph. :hug:

DutchieGirl
Feb 10th, 2006, 05:14 AM
Recently much has been written about the Hingis comeback and almost everyone agrees that she is very talented. However all these things written in the media seems to have gone too far because in most of these articles we see statements such as "compared to Hingis, X is just another mindless ball basher" or "compared to Hingis, Y only survives because of her fighting spirit". We've read these comments for Clijsters, Pierce, Dementieva, Sharapova...

I like Hingis but I don't agree with all this degrading of all other players' talents just to praise her.

:yeah:

switz
Feb 10th, 2006, 05:17 AM
Let me put forward this thought:

If Martina didn't have as much talent as she possesses, how would she of ever been able to compete the way she has? She's not a super athlete in terms of muscle mass or stamina, she doesn't have blinding power on her groundstrokes, she doesn't have a massive serve.

Everything on paper indicates she shouldn't have won 5 slams and over 40 singles titles yet she does. It is all the intangibles that she does have (anticipation, court craft, quality of defence, early ball strike, court sense) that allows her to compete.

For me, a talented player is unique, they are born with this gift that can't be taught and if this is the case, then certainly Martina is the most talented on court.
But then again, just my opinion.

The problem is that the word "talent" is just thrown around too much. Everyone has talents, whether they be blowing bubble gum or playing a Vivaldi concerto. Some forms of talent can develop without much work, but the majority require a whole lot of attention before they can flourish. Hingis didn't IMO pick up a tennis racquet and just go with it - Melanie had it all mapped out, she knew what kind of player she wanted to create and Martina possessed enough gifts and determination to bring it out.

It's just like on this board. I'm talented at at being an insightful, warm, funny posters that everyone adores, while others are much more gifted at being annoying, petulant babies :lol:

Hingie
Feb 11th, 2006, 12:30 AM
The problem is that the word "talent" is just thrown around too much. Everyone has talents, whether they be blowing bubble gum or playing a Vivaldi concerto. Some forms of talent can develop without much work, but the majority require a whole lot of attention before they can flourish. Hingis didn't IMO pick up a tennis racquet and just go with it - Melanie had it all mapped out, she knew what kind of player she wanted to create and Martina possessed enough gifts and determination to bring it out.

It's just like on this board. I'm talented at at being an insightful, warm, funny posters that everyone adores, while others are much more gifted at being annoying, petulant babies :lol:

You are right and i'm not suggesting that she just picked up a racquet and the magic started... but how many players with her type of game (and disadvantages in terms of build) have come out in the last 10 years and have had as much success - no one.

I think if Hingis didn't possess this incredible talent and instinct for the game, she would have just been some second rate player and very few on this board would even know her name!

TonyP
Feb 11th, 2006, 02:38 AM
Hingis, like all great champions, is her own unique combination of talents, skills and determination. I suspect something different goes into every champion and that no two are exactly alike. there's no formula, and if there were, everybody would copy it and they would all be champions.

HIngis owes a lot to her blood line, meaning genetics. But she also owes a lot to her mom, who is in reality the only coach she ever had. Melanie Molitor is like a good stage mom, but one who allowed her daughter to grab the limelight and didn't get in the way. But she was also the perfect example of a woman who knew all the tricks of the tennis trade, but was never good enough herself to be a top player on a world class level. Then she was lucky enough to have a daughter who was born smart enough to absorb all that Melanie could teach her and who happened to love the sport in the first place, so there wasn't too much resistance to learning.

And also luckily enough, Martina had the mental make up or personal hunger, whichever you like, to make her determined to be a winner.

Finally, Hingis had the determination to learn every shot in the game, something few players can do. HIngis was smart enough to have the best anticipation of any player out there, but knowing where the ball is going to land doesn't do much good if you can't handle it when it gets to you.

Hingis learned every shot in the book and how to play it from every spot on court, so when the ball arrives, she knows what to do with it.